This is a post to make you giggle. From 1967 to 1972 I rode a nice Austrian-made 10-speed (we didn't call them road bikes then) with a saddle much like the Brooks saddle. It wasn't easy to locate new saddles in those days, so I continued to use what I had. Around 1971 the leather started to wear down along the middle and the tanning of natural leather would leave a dark brown streak down my behind. As you can imagine, I had to be careful not to wear light-colored shorts or pants on long rides! Cheers :) Thanks for the saddle tips.
I bought a Charge Spoon based on this video. Was looking for something that stayed comfortable past the 80-100 km mark. Tried Selle Italia Max Gel, Novus, a Serfas Vistoso, among others, but the 80 km barrier was still in play. Took the Charge Spoon out for a 133 km ride the other day and it worked really well for me. Felt like I'd ridden half that distance. Time will tell, but a really good start.
The B17 is functionally not as wide as it appears. My sit bones are 140mm wide, and I kept trying various Brooks saddles wondering why they never seemed to break in. Finally I measured the actual distance between the horns of the cantle over which the leather is stretched: 125 mm. That means that if your sit bones are wider than about 120mm, you’re sitting on the metal frame of the saddle (which will never break in). The Rivet and Selle Anatomica saddles are about the same width. After years of searching, I finally settled (literally and figuratively) on the 160mm wide Ergon SMC. Night and day difference for this wide body.
I have some Brooks B17, Cambium C17 and Charge Spoon saddles on my bikes. I'm a 90kg guy (not fat, just "big"), but since I tried the Charge Ladle that I originally bought for my girlfriend, there is no way back: the best saddle without questions. I FINALLY found what fits my structure. So, I can confirm your recommendation is 100% true, Russ!
I value a brooks for the way it looks. Bicycles are a mix of beauty and functionality, and stories of old brooks appeal. For my mtbs wtb speed v, no big drama if it gets scuffed, comedy enough, looks cool. Thanks for the video.
Have a fat tire bike and recently installed a “Terry” Street saddle. Soooo. comfortable. Just completed a 53 mile ride (mainly paved) to Kangaroo Lake in No Ca. (Great fishing). No discomfort or me movIng all over seat. Great info as usual.
I bought a brooks flyer and will stick with it. The break in period was quite long and I almost gave up on it because I got blisters every time I rode on it. Once broken in, it is pretty comfortable. My final verdict: it's a good bicycle saddle despite the extended break in period. Second conclusion: people get way too worked up about bicycle saddles. THey don't live up to the hype from the fans and don't generally deserve the criticism of those who hate them.
About 5 years ago I moved away from charge saddles, I found any ride around 100 miles I was in agony and went through them rapidly. My B17 has done 5 years sterling service and still on my touring bike, I also run a cambium C17 and a swift on 2 of my other bikes, to be honest they have been hands down the most reliable comfortable saddles I've ever owned, with the exception of an old flite Ti saddle that's been on all my XC bikes for the last 10 years.
I always fight with saddles and end up going back to a Brooks. I can confirm they have a point of no return but the hold that perfect fit for a few years. I'm going through it right now and am about to give up and buy another Brooks. I'd rather have a comfortable seat from the get go and have it last the entire life of the bike I put it on but man finding that perfect saddle is hard and expensive. . .
I still love my Brooks. I have a 14 year old B17 on my touring/kick-around-town bike, a 3 year old Swift on my trail bike and a 4 year old C13 on my trail bike which is the only saddle I’m not crazy about. Both leather saddles have been super comfortable and really lasted which is saying something considering what I’ve put them through. While there are a lot of good saddles out there nothing touches Brooks service. A two year warranty that’s extended to 10 years when you register it. I haven’t had to use it but it’s nice to know it’s there. When I get my gravel bike lined out the first place I’ll go for a saddle is Brooks.
I’m using a Brooks C17 which I really like. I was off the bike for almost a year and a half due to injury. When I started riding again, I fully expected to have a sore bum for a few days but it never happened. It’s still very comfortable and well worth the weight penalty. Other than the color fading, it shows no sign of wear after 7 months of riding. I use the saddle with a Specialized CG seat post which was the only surviving part of my Roubaix after being hit by a pickup truck. As funny looking as the seat post is, it does what it’s designed to do and contributes to comfort.
I agree with Adam's comment below. I would love to see an updated version of this video. I don't race but I am looking for a good saddle for a 1 day 160 mile road ride.
Richard V Hear, HEAR! I have one on my hybrid and my fat trail bike. I have a C19 carved on my girlfriend's hybrid, too, and she seems to like it as well as I love my C17s.
Thanks for the video. I'm both surprised and pleased to see the Aliante on your list. I've been a roadie for many years and after trying many saddles my favorite became the Aliante and I've had it on all my bikes for the about 8 years - but not the Versus version. I tried the versus but for some reason it was not as comfortable for me as the regular version without the channel. I can't explain why. I also commute to work and have done a 4-day tour on an old (1998) Specialized Rockhopper that I have racks/fenders on, and recently I have built up an "all purpose" bike (Lynskey Backroad) I for multi surface riding, gravel, touring, etc. I put Aliantes on those bikes too, simply because I already had them, but considered that a temporary situation, assuming all along I would eventually need to put a Brooks saddle or other touring saddle on one or both of those bikes for comfort. But so far the Aliante has been totally comfortable, even on the high mileage (100+ mi) days of the mini tour. I still might try a Brooks when one of my Aliantes wears out but at least I don't need to switch just for the touring cred.
Former brooks b17 and swift rider here. When looking for an alternative I temporarily got hooked on the wtb pure line, particularly the pure v. I wish I had discovered the ergon 150mm SFC3 gel saddle before buying all those pures. The ergon is the most amazing seat Ive used in 26 years of riding. No padded shorts required (which is a sign of a bad seat.)
I've been using the Brooks C17. It has the B17 geometry, only with vulcanized rubber instead of leather. It still has the short rail, which is indeed a drawback, but it's waterproof, which the B17 is not, and the most comfortable saddle I've ever used. (Like most people, I've used the B17, and loved it, too, but if you live in the Pacific Northwest, having a waterproof saddle is kind of mandatory.)
I've been riding a Brooks Swift almost every day since 2009. It's still in great condition. I treat it with a bees wax based boot treatment a couple time a winter. It's been on tours and is my go-to every day commuter. So far it's lasted twice as long as my previous B-17s, and I can still see years in its future.
I've had a B17 for about 4~5 years and have been happy it with until quite recently. I have a Charge Spoon upstairs somewhere and I might give it another try this weekend.
The Spoon is a good alternative depending on how low your handlebars are relative to your saddle. If your bars are taller than your saddle, it won't work as well. If they are a touch lower, they will work better.
I must be doing something wrong because my Brooks saddles last for years. But I do have a more upright position than most riders, so it's the support at the back that really counts for me. You're right about the short rails though, that is a limitation with the B17. Maybe I'll try the Cambium next time I get a new bike - although I mostly ride recumbents these days. You're also right about the leather not being what it used to be, but they do a premium version I believe, with a better quality leather.
I did a lot of biking in the 70s-80s-90, nothing much over 100 miles at a time but many club rides and commuting to work. I tried many different saddles and found out a few things. #1, the shape of the saddle is way more important than the padding. #2, thick, soft padding is only comfortable over very short distances, once the padding has compressed it comes down to the underlying shape. #3, very wide saddles may be comfortable to sit on but not to peddle on. But obviously you already know all this. I rode an Ideale 90 for a several years (very similar to a Brooks B-17) and I found it uncomfortable for some time until it broke in, than was fairly comfortable for a year or so but then began to sag and stretch and became uncomfortable again. My next saddle was a Zeuss Soffati which was narrow and light with almost no padding and was white leather with lots of little ventilation holes It looked very nice but also looked very uncomfortable. Surprise, it was the most comfortable bike saddle I've ever owned, and I have been kicking myself ever since for leaving on the bike when I sold it. I've never seen another one anywhere. It just seemed the perfect shape to conform to my anatomy. Since then I've avoided the old style leather saddles in favor of more modern designs with a cutout and a bit of gel padding. I recently bought a folding bike and the cheap no-name saddle it came with is actually surprisingly comfortable on the short rides I go on now, but I'm always looking for something better (and classic brown is always a plus, which narrows the available choices quite a bit). Thanks for the very informative video. I think I may try one of those Charge saddles.
I tried an ISM Adamo Typhoon a few years ago on a MTB, it felt good so I picked up a Prologue for one of my road bikes. I now have 8 of them on various bikes. They seem to be a "love it or hate it" saddle, definitley not for everybody, but I love mine.
on my road bike, after trying out many saddles for the past years, i am now absolutely happy with a non padded, crazy lightweight full carbon saddle (berk lupina). its so comfy because the shell flexes (especially when paired with a flexy carbon seatpost) and you sit kind of like in a hammock. if it wouldnt be so expensive i would buy a second one for the gravel bike. there i settled with an ergon sr comp. that also work quite well as long as i dont go into an aggressive aero position for long.
I’ve got 2 Team Pros and a charge spoon ti as well as a San Marco Rolls on my 4 bikes. Team Pro are the most comfortable but the spoon is good fora racing saddle. My team pro on my commute bike has 12 years and nearly 15,000 miles on it. There’s a little bit of crack8ng at 2 of the rivets but I expect them to last another 3 or 4 years and 5000 miles.
I gave up with Brookes years ago due to Numb Nuts. I tried Rido R2 and finished up changing all 5 of my bikes to these. Good width for sit bones , it is important to set them up correctly with nose slightly pointing up, A rolling sensation is felt at first on the sit bones but this is not noticed after a while...it is due to placing you correctly on these bones unlike other saddles. Definitely good for bigger people like me. They look a bit crap but they work. Price is also very competitive, I have no problems now so I don't need to change.
Used to ride Brooks (3 different ones), but found the single position to constricting. Have had great luck with the Splesh Toupe for a few years now. Bars are around 1-5 cm below saddle depending on bike and riding.
I rode a Brooks Professional for over 10 years. Didn't have the patience to break in another Brooks and am currently riding a WTB Pure V that I purchased about 10 years ago. Looks a lot like the Charge Spoon and was similarly priced IIRC. Very comfortable and durable saddle.
Maintain your b17 tention it then use bees wax or mink oil, they also sell there own proohide and it will last forever. If you don't your saddle will dip then it will over stress the rivets of your saddle and rip the leather. If I can keep a b17 going for 10 years in constant rain you can too
I am a B17/Professional fan. I always will be. It is the only saddle I have tried that does not give me sores. I have SIX of them total. But I have a bike (which I don't like much) that I keep for riding in the rain. A leather saddle is, of course, a poor choice. So I just ordered a Spoon off Amazon ($28), based upon your recommendation. We'll see if that works.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Great. I'll let you know. Worst case is that I am out $30. Best case is that my inability to ride that saddle more than 30-40 miles without discomfort improves.
Thing is, I have Brooks saddles that are 20+ years old, already well used when I bought them. If well conditioned and well protected from they can last decades. If treated like a cheap regular saddle a Brooks won’t last well at all. If you polish your shoes regularly a Brooks is great. If not, maybe not the best choice.
As it's said in the video, Brooks saddles from 20 years or more ago are fine and may still be going strong, but since then the leather quality has changed. They're no longer using only the strongest part of the hides for high-mileage saddles like the B-17, but all parts of the hide, so it's become a lottery if you get a saddle that will hold up or not. What you say about caring for a leather saddle is right of course, don't leave it outside in the rain, use fenders, do grease it at least once a year etc.
Brook's saddles as any leather item could last a really long time, this guy is a negligent owner,things don't last to him cause he doesn't take care of them
+1 on the fizik saddle - I use a fizik Vitesse, I'm a guy, but I find the 155mm width just right, and especially the thin, firm padding over the slightly flexy shell. Good quality cover and build too.
I've tried other saddles but I keep coming back to a Brooks or Selle Anatomica. I've got a B-17 on my Brompton with ~ 1500 miles on it that is the most comfortable saddle I own, only thing I don't like about it is use in rain. For my mountain bike, I went with a Brooks Cambium, the jury is still out on that one, I'm not sure I care for it's stiffness and lack of give. On my touring bike, I have a Selle Anatomica, which I find more comfortable than the B17, but it's not going to last as long, I have to tighten the adjustment screw often, otherwise it squeaks when i ride it.
I use a Brooks saddle on my Brompton, but it's a Cambium C17 that the LBS was nice enough to swap when I picked the bike up. It's only a week old, so I can't say how durable it is, but I have to say it's really nice not having to worry about a saddle cover.
I did the same switch and then I could set my butterfly bar almost 35° lower. It´s much better confortable now, everything, the saddle and the riding position. No regreat at all
I also went to a Cambium C17 and it is hands-down the most comfortable saddle I've owned. I stopped using riding shorts for day rides--I can go all day with no discomfort whatsoever. Not cheap but worth every penny.
I've had 6 or 7 Brooks over the last 50 or so years and have never had one that tightening the nose piece didn't add tension to the saddle. A quarter turn once in a while, never more than twice a year and never more than a quarter turn at a time, just like Brooks recommends. My oldest saddles are still just as I like them. I still have 4 of those on bikes today. I also have one Cambium, which never needs anything is now over 5 years old. I bought it right after they stopped using cloth tops. That one still feels just like new. Brooks isn't the only saddle I like but, I look at them as the best value option.
I bought a b17 Last year Dezember. Didnt Found quite the right adjustment yet. But ONLY Rode it twice since i bought. Still waiting for better weather and more sun. Will see in a few weeks. I hope it fits me, that thing wasnt cheap and it looks damn GOOD on my retro bianchi
I had been looking at the Charge Spoon, simply because it "looked" comfortable. But I just didn't buy it as I had no endorsements from anyone. Then, BOOM! you mention it first. I just bought one in "Honey" brown (sorry Brooks).
I currently use a charge spoon and I just purchased a B17 earlier today on eBay. The charge just isn't wide enough so I decided to go with the B17-S. Even though it's supposedly for women I measured my sit bones at 165-170mm range and with the B17-S being 175mm hopefully it will fit perfect. 08/25/2024 Update: I'm still using the B17S on my mtb and it's just started getting comfortable. I went ahead and purchased another Brooks saddle, a standard B17 last week to put on my road bike. The new sadle is hard as a rock and VERY slippery. My B17S is the softened version so it was grippy right away. I'm hoping the slipperiness on this standard B17 goes away eventually. Also I angled the saddle up a bit earlier today to help me not slip off the nose of the saddle.
I have heard a lot of good things about the Serfa RX and that might be the next saddle I try but until then I will happily stay on my Brooks. Even if brooks leather is lower quality (not sure if that is true) I think it would still have to outlast any other saddle, made of a thin layer of padding and a leather or synthetic cover, as long as you take care of it.
Great Video, thank you for creating it. I gave Brooks B17 a fair shot: 3500 km over 1 year. Still it did not feel like a good saddle for me so I got rid of it and bought a mountain bike saddle with width perfect for my butt bones (they did the gel seat test in the shop). This was not good either. I was riding the Savannah Way on it (2000 km of dirt bumpy road) and ended up power taping a pillow over it and wearing two pairs of chamois. So I changed that to a Tioga double(!) gel saddle on springs... It is a comfy saddle but to wide for me. I am cycling around the world BTW so the saddle is kind of important for me. I still put on two pairs of chamois, Tioga is falling apart too quickly so I am still looking for a good saddle. Before I left off for the global tour I had a Selle Italia FLX Gel Flow - and it seems to me now that this was the best saddle for my butt. Yet again, it was not durable enough. Fisik you show here looks like smthn I would like to try but the price is scaring me. I can have 4-5 Selle Italia FLX Gel Flow saddles for that price. When it comes to the Brooks I have a theory I want to share: Brooks provides comfort in a way that is contrary to the up-to-date knowledge. As we know, we are meant to be supported only on our butt bones, that is why a right saddle for your or mine butt is convex in places where we have butt bones. Brooks breaks in under the butt bones making the saddle concave where other saddles are convex. I am very skinny and my butt bones are just under my skin. Rubbing myself against Brooks caused me pain and at times, when I was not wearing chamois (like cycling to the office) it caused me ulcers. Do you have any advice for me? :)
Yikes! It seems like you've found a great saddle in the Selle Italia FLX Gel Flow and if that works for you then it might be worthwhile to stick with it and just buy multiple saddles that you can ship to yourself. The FIZIKs are very expensive. We have a few bike shops in Portland where you can borrow demo saddles and ride them for 2 weeks before you buy them.
I have a couple of different Brooks saddles and love them. I haven't had any longevity issues, but I keep my saddles waxed with the Brooks leather treatment and also use a waterproof cover when in the rain. The older one is a Flyer model that's about 10 years old and has thousands of miles on it. The springs make this a heavy but very comfortable saddle. I use it on my bikepacking rig and don't need a shock seat post. More recently I've purchase a Selle Anatomica H2. It takes less break in than the Brooks and is super comfortable. One of the nice things about the Selle Anatomica is it is a small family owned company that makes their saddles in the US.
Personally I like the Flyer, which is the same as the B17, but with springs. I'm surprised so few people seem to use it. However, It's good to know what else is available.
Thanks Russ - I feel like taking an anti-brooks stance is a bold move, because they are honestly revered. I use brooks on all of my bikes - still. In every climate. One thing I wanted to ask about is that you specifically call out b-17, but there are other models. I use the flyer on my xtracycle and my commuter. I love the spring versions and I wonder if the spring's give, helps extend the leather life? I have had zero issues with leather quality, and when my rails broke brooks repaired them for free. SO they still have good customer service. Not that it is important in the grand scheme of things, but the brooks aesthetic is honestly so vastly superior to most other saddles, I couldn't even compare. Like it or not, it is nice to like to "look" at your bike.
also, i biked year round in chicago and worked in a place where i had to leave my bike outside, with the proper two bag system, and a saddle cover when I ride, I had ZERO issues with abundance of rain. I know it's not PNW levels, but it's still plenty wet. I honestly can't relate to maintenance issues that relate to a brooks. just be smart and cover it up.
Thanks. I call out the B-17 specifically because it's the model I've had the most experience with and used on most of our touring bikes. I've owned a Flyer, but never put any super long miles on it and like you it was on cargo bike / commuting duty (it was on the Bilenky) so didn't see as much use as the B-17. Yes, the aesthetic of the Brooks can't be beat. I've not seen a synthetic saddle and gone "oooh that looks sweet!". I'd be curious to try one of Swift models to see if it is different, but will have to wait until the wallet allows :)
I'm sure with diligence people can maintain a leather saddle. There are a ton here in Portland. I'm just pretty good at losing saddle covers and get lazy :)
I use the B17 on my Klein Quantum and would not use any other saddle on it. It is superior in comfort, straight out of the box, to another other Brooks I have used. Tried many others including Fiziks and the awful Specialized BG saddles. I am a Brooks and San Marco Rolls fan. I have a C17 on my gravel bike and an old Brooks (pre Italian ownership) Professional on my 653 lugged bike. The Rolls are on my Specialized MTB and Fondriest. I'm still looking for a home for my Swift Ti which is not as comfortable as the B17 or Professional.
I rode Brooks Pros for several years riding ultras. Eventually, I gave up on them for many of the reasons you mentioned. Plus, living in the SE US, it’s quite humid here which results in a lot of sweat. Brooks saddles do not do well getting wet, and who wants to use a rain cover every ride to protect it from sweat. Once they start to sag, it’s all over. Tightening the tension bolt only turns them into, as we called them back in the day, “ass hatchets.”
Just ordered a Gilles Berthoud Galibier saddle. They do more touring style ones as well. Men and Women specific too. I wanted something more “ comfortable” without the weight of something like a Brooks. So this hit the sweet spot between the two points for me. Will still need to break it in etc but hoping that my rear end will be happy for longer rides.
Thanks for the tip , Iv always wanted a red brooks touring saddle but they never have them , checked there we store and bang red touring saddles , I'll pull the trigger on one in a couple of weeks .
I have to say my Marin Gestalt came with its own stock branded saddle. The first bike I’ve ever had with a saddle I’ve not had to replace. It’s so comfy with or without cycle shorts.
How's your experience with the Marin? In considering the four corners, because the trek 520, surly lht, Kona are not available for a year. Don't see many reviews on it. Not in English atleast.
I ride a brooks B17 on my True North custom built touring bike, after 13000 km It shows no signs of wear and provides great comfort on my 100 - 140 km rides. Has weathered well and I have just treated it with Lexol from time to time. Just got some Prooffide and given it a treatment, so It should do even better for the next 13000 km's. I ride a Fi'zik on my road bike and it's fine for 50 - 75 km rides, usually spend more time out of the saddle on my road bike.
I love my Brooks saddle and I'm thinking of getting another one for my other bike. I may change my mind and try the Charge Spoon due to the cheaper price, but I doubt it. Nice video, though.
The wear that your see on the Charge (3:34) can be prevented by covering it with black electrical tape when the saddle is new. You can just wrap around the nose and working around the rails. Electrical tape becomes very slippery as your thigh rubs against it and is perfect for this application. I have it on my Selle Italia Turbomatic Gel Flow (also a very good flat saddle) and it works great, even when placed horizontally.
Had a Fuji Gran Tourer that came with a 'Belt' Brooks B17 knockoff. That was in 1989. The bike is long gone. Still have the saddle. Did a 2200 mile tour of the British Isles...on that saddle. If it ain't broke...
You could probably try something from Selle SMP next time. The shape of the saddle and the angle of the rails make for slightly odd setup on the seatpost, but these saddles have their fans - myself included. Mine's a Selle SMP Hell (now renamed the "Well"), which is the top model in their "Touring" selection. There are other cheaper models available that come with more padding.
I looked at these saddles. They are all 145mm wide. Except the ladle which is 155mm wide. The Brooks B17 is 185mm wide. I have had two 145mm saddles and both have been too narrow for me. I just ordered the ladle, if that's no good I'll try the Brooks B17 and just accept it'll need replacing. I don't wear black shorts and was concerned about the leather die running anyway.
I own a few charge bikes which have the spoon saddle, I'd say they are easily one of the comfiest saddles I've used. The wittkop velodrome on my moulton is a great saddle too
I've had a Raleigh Sojourn with a Brooks b17 saddle for 15years and I'm still satisfied with the saddle. Part of owning a leather saddle is conditioning the leather and tightening/replacing the leather drawstring. Might be why your saddle perished after less time. I get the conditioner at the saddle or tack store. Can't remember the name off the top of my head the name of the brand but the stuff is thick and requires a couple of applications to gain the best results. Don't give up on your Brooks based on this video - take care of it!!!
If you like the Charge Spoon, try a Fabric Scoop saddle. It’s almost exactly the same shape but is a little higher end and comes in a ton of options including 3 different position profiles. I’ve heard that the guys who started Fabric used to work for Charge, but I don’t know for sure. The major difference is that the Scoop is not stitched, it’s adhered to the foam and base directly so the whole thing acts in unison to create a suspended and cushioned comfort. I have had one on my road bike for two years now and it’s held up quite admirably with no maintenance at all. Been really enjoying your channel!
Just got eh fabric scoop shallow profile. Can't say I'm liking it so far. I've only been on it for about 50k as I just got it the other day. Did you find there's a break in or was it comfortable right away for you?
Wandering Sailor Kind of, I don’t think the saddle breaks in, but my body definitely takes several rides to adjust to any new saddle. I also found that I need to point the nose of the saddle up about half a degree to keep from sliding forward. The shallow is for a pretty aggressive road bike so if the profile is wrong for the type of riding you do it’ll be uncomfortable. They have a more padded Scoop radius saddle too for more upright positions. I never believe anyone who says their saddle is instantly comfortable unless they have lost all feeling below the waist. I would give the saddle a few more rides and go from there, if it were me. If you’re in acute pain, don’t ride it.
Carl Shapiro thanks for taking the time to reply. We'll I ride a specialized hybrid bike, so I think my less aggressive riding is not suited for the saddle. I've only had it for a couple of days now though, so I'll make my decision after a couple more rides. I can tell from the narrow profile that the saddle is not designed for that, slightly angled, upright position. I will adjust the front of the saddle a few degrees upwards to see if that helps some. I was thinking of trying the radius but I'm not sure if would make any major difference over the shallow model. Think I'll try one of the specialized power saddles, or an ergon saddle if it doesn't work out. Or, I might fork out the cash for a b17 though I'm not too keen on the weight. Thanks
I have the B17 brooks on my canyon urban commuter but on my gravel bike, i am planning to give WTB volt narrow a try. I bought a breezer inversion last year and it came with this wtb volt saddle…when i sold the bike, i kinda regretted that i did not take the saddle off because i miss that cushion but yet comfy feeling i had with that saddle. Hence…looking for the same saddle to try on my diverge. Will compare with my b17 feeling. Although in comparison, the b17 weight a lot more than the wtb volt…probably saving half of the weight here
Another choice is the Berthoud Mente, which is 180mm wide, with thicker leather, waterproofing, and rear rivets off the back rather than something to sit on.
My personal preferred one is the Selle Italia Flite, both the new and old versions. I also like the Brooks Cambium, and most of the Specialized saddles I have tested are really confortable. The Fizic Goby isn't bad at all (it is the only Fizik my butt has get used to..) and the SDG Duster is comfortable enough. At the end it depends on your rear end.
I've had a b17 for 2 years and it was comfortable from the word go (unlike the Fabric one I had before) Unfortunately the adjustment bolt has just snapped. Are they easy to mend yourself? The answer to my own question above (a week later) is no! I bought a new bolt but it's nigh on impossible to wedge back in. My solution was to keep the saddle stem attached and gently open a vice between the metal nose and stem stretching the seat lengthways.
Ha! Risking the wrath of the cult of Surly/Brooks. I use and love the Toupe locally. Considered switching for my tour. Now Im confident in staying with it. Thanks!
www.bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2017/11/08/specialized-donates-kids-bikes-sonoma-fire-victims#.WkqxBTeQyUk They are no worse and probably better than any other large company. We just happen to be closer to them than other large companies because we are passionate about cycling. Regarding the ancient news most complain about...a company is pretty much obligated to protect it's assets. physical, names and intellectual. Love your site. Its refreshing in its high quality. Happy New Year.
I have the Aliante on my MTB and Tandem. I like them, but wood like something on my tandem to absorb vibration in the road dew to 5 level fusion with disc removed.
My Brooks b17 has about 2k on it and at least a yr and a half of use and it's still tight. Hasn't softened up a bit. The reason I' mentioning this is pretty simple. Leather can differ in strength and stiffness dramatically. It may even be because of your local climate. Also, on different days the saddle is stiffer than others.
Thanks for this and all your other excellent videos. I'd like to see a similar "Alternative to B-17" saddles with other (similar) leather contenders...
I'm not into touring, but did ride a Brooks for a few years back in the day.. It was a good saddle decades ago, Why now? As you have shown, there are so many better choices out there.. My Brooks now makes for a decoration on my wall, pretty cool to look at, but I wouldn't think to put my butt on it.
Brooks Swallow, but make sure the seat post clasp doesn't foul the wrap under bridge under the nose. Needless to say, it takes at least a month for initial break-in, and then a year or more to get intimately formed and comfortable.
The WTB line of mt bike saddles, like the Volt, I have found are also awesome for gravel and all road. I too ride the Fizik Alliante, i have it on my gravel bike and like it.
I always carry a plastic grocery bag. on every bike, but especially useful for brooks equipped. makes a good and cheap train cover or to carry empty beer cans to recycling. or for the impromptu grocery stop. or as a tourniquit.
I would say Sella Italia Storica and Epoca as really good alternatives to the B17 Another one I have is the Brooks Seallow a lot slimmer but very comfy.
I ride with the brookes professional on my moulton but all my carbon bikes have the charge spoon as you say there very cheap but great long distance saddle's also the charge is half the weight of the brookes.
I've never ridden a brooks but have had a specialized toupe for the past few years. I would get leg and hand numbness after the 50 mile mark (granted everyone is different), but have recently discovered ergon saddles and am really enjoying the flex and comfort (without the weight penalty). Shhh, they're on sale for great prices at nashbar
This is a post to make you giggle. From 1967 to 1972 I rode a nice Austrian-made 10-speed (we didn't call them road bikes then) with a saddle much like the Brooks saddle. It wasn't easy to locate new saddles in those days, so I continued to use what I had. Around 1971 the leather started to wear down along the middle and the tanning of natural leather would leave a dark brown streak down my behind. As you can imagine, I had to be careful not to wear light-colored shorts or pants on long rides! Cheers :) Thanks for the saddle tips.
I bought a Charge Spoon based on this video. Was looking for something that stayed comfortable past the 80-100 km mark. Tried Selle Italia Max Gel, Novus, a Serfas Vistoso, among others, but the 80 km barrier was still in play. Took the Charge Spoon out for a 133 km ride the other day and it worked really well for me. Felt like I'd ridden half that distance. Time will tell, but a really good start.
The B17 is functionally not as wide as it appears. My sit bones are 140mm wide, and I kept trying various Brooks saddles wondering why they never seemed to break in. Finally I measured the actual distance between the horns of the cantle over which the leather is stretched: 125 mm. That means that if your sit bones are wider than about 120mm, you’re sitting on the metal frame of the saddle (which will never break in). The Rivet and Selle Anatomica saddles are about the same width. After years of searching, I finally settled (literally and figuratively) on the 160mm wide Ergon SMC. Night and day difference for this wide body.
I have some Brooks B17, Cambium C17 and Charge Spoon saddles on my bikes. I'm a 90kg guy (not fat, just "big"), but since I tried the Charge Ladle that I originally bought for my girlfriend, there is no way back: the best saddle without questions. I FINALLY found what fits my structure. So, I can confirm your recommendation is 100% true, Russ!
I value a brooks for the way it looks. Bicycles are a mix of beauty and functionality, and stories of old brooks appeal. For my mtbs wtb speed v, no big drama if it gets scuffed, comedy enough, looks cool. Thanks for the video.
I"ve been cycling 35 years and have tried many, many saddles. I always go back to Brooks.
I ride since 1983 and Brooks neuer fit well
@@ChristianBecker-em9ic Sorry, every butt is different I guess.
I would be interested in a 2019 version of this video!
Adam Price Seconded! Update us on the saddles you’ve both used since this video.
I would like this too, please.
Yes, just thinking of this.
Add me to that list
Same here ...
Have a fat tire bike and recently installed a “Terry” Street saddle. Soooo. comfortable. Just completed a 53 mile ride (mainly paved) to Kangaroo Lake in No Ca. (Great fishing). No discomfort or me movIng all over seat. Great info as usual.
I bought a brooks flyer and will stick with it. The break in period was quite long and I almost gave up on it because I got blisters every time I rode on it. Once broken in, it is pretty comfortable. My final verdict: it's a good bicycle saddle despite the extended break in period. Second conclusion: people get way too worked up about bicycle saddles. THey don't live up to the hype from the fans and don't generally deserve the criticism of those who hate them.
I love the WTB Rocket V Comp that came with my 2012 Kona Sutra, after about 15,000 km, it's still comfortable.
About 5 years ago I moved away from charge saddles, I found any ride around 100 miles I was in agony and went through them rapidly. My B17 has done 5 years sterling service and still on my touring bike, I also run a cambium C17 and a swift on 2 of my other bikes, to be honest they have been hands down the most reliable comfortable saddles I've ever owned, with the exception of an old flite Ti saddle that's been on all my XC bikes for the last 10 years.
I always fight with saddles and end up going back to a Brooks. I can confirm they have a point of no return but the hold that perfect fit for a few years. I'm going through it right now and am about to give up and buy another Brooks. I'd rather have a comfortable seat from the get go and have it last the entire life of the bike I put it on but man finding that perfect saddle is hard and expensive. . .
I still love my Brooks. I have a 14 year old B17 on my touring/kick-around-town bike, a 3 year old Swift on my trail bike and a 4 year old C13 on my trail bike which is the only saddle I’m not crazy about. Both leather saddles have been super comfortable and really lasted which is saying something considering what I’ve put them through.
While there are a lot of good saddles out there nothing touches Brooks service. A two year warranty that’s extended to 10 years when you register it. I haven’t had to use it but it’s nice to know it’s there.
When I get my gravel bike lined out the first place I’ll go for a saddle is Brooks.
I’m using a Brooks C17 which I really like. I was off the bike for almost a year and a half due to injury. When I started riding again, I fully expected to have a sore bum for a few days but it never happened. It’s still very comfortable and well worth the weight penalty. Other than the color fading, it shows no sign of wear after 7 months of riding. I use the saddle with a Specialized CG seat post which was the only surviving part of my Roubaix after being hit by a pickup truck. As funny looking as the seat post is, it does what it’s designed to do and contributes to comfort.
Good honest review. The Charge Spoon is a great replacement especially such a low price.
I agree with Adam's comment below. I would love to see an updated version of this video. I don't race but I am looking for a good saddle for a 1 day 160 mile road ride.
I use the Brooks C17 Cambium carved. Straight out of the box all day comfort!!
Richard V Hear, HEAR! I have one on my hybrid and my fat trail bike. I have a C19 carved on my girlfriend's hybrid, too, and she seems to like it as well as I love my C17s.
Brooks c-19 is my go to saddel!
Thanks for the video. I'm both surprised and pleased to see the Aliante on your list. I've been a roadie for many years and after trying many saddles my favorite became the Aliante and I've had it on all my bikes for the about 8 years - but not the Versus version. I tried the versus but for some reason it was not as comfortable for me as the regular version without the channel. I can't explain why. I also commute to work and have done a 4-day tour on an old (1998) Specialized Rockhopper that I have racks/fenders on, and recently I have built up an "all purpose" bike (Lynskey Backroad) I for multi surface riding, gravel, touring, etc. I put Aliantes on those bikes too, simply because I already had them, but considered that a temporary situation, assuming all along I would eventually need to put a Brooks saddle or other touring saddle on one or both of those bikes for comfort. But so far the Aliante has been totally comfortable, even on the high mileage (100+ mi) days of the mini tour. I still might try a Brooks when one of my Aliantes wears out but at least I don't need to switch just for the touring cred.
I love that you include options for women! so many youtube videos are aimed at men only. Thank you! I have subscribed.
Check out Laura's latest review of the Specialized women's Mimic saddle! th-cam.com/video/uXnO_5H2n70/w-d-xo.html
Brooks B 17 is still my go to saddle. Never let me down
Still prefer the B67. Deleting the springs for no reason seems like a loss.
Former brooks b17 and swift rider here. When looking for an alternative I temporarily got hooked on the wtb pure line, particularly the pure v. I wish I had discovered the ergon 150mm SFC3 gel saddle before buying all those pures. The ergon is the most amazing seat Ive used in 26 years of riding. No padded shorts required (which is a sign of a bad seat.)
I've been using the Brooks C17. It has the B17 geometry, only with vulcanized rubber instead of leather. It still has the short rail, which is indeed a drawback, but it's waterproof, which the B17 is not, and the most comfortable saddle I've ever used. (Like most people, I've used the B17, and loved it, too, but if you live in the Pacific Northwest, having a waterproof saddle is kind of mandatory.)
I haven’t used the Brooks but did get Selle Antonica which I absolutely love.
I've been riding a Brooks Swift almost every day since 2009. It's still in great condition. I treat it with a bees wax based boot treatment a couple time a winter. It's been on tours and is my go-to every day commuter. So far it's lasted twice as long as my previous B-17s, and I can still see years in its future.
Hi, I'm curious to know which bees-wax product you are using. Thanks in advance.
I've had a B17 for about 4~5 years and have been happy it with until quite recently. I have a Charge Spoon upstairs somewhere and I might give it another try this weekend.
The Spoon is a good alternative depending on how low your handlebars are relative to your saddle. If your bars are taller than your saddle, it won't work as well. If they are a touch lower, they will work better.
I like how you showed all 4 of these saddles in the rain hahaha
This is exactly the kind of helpful content I like. Thanks!
Thanks. Always looking for suggestions for future vid ideas. If you have any let us know.
I must be doing something wrong because my Brooks saddles last for years. But I do have a more upright position than most riders, so it's the support at the back that really counts for me. You're right about the short rails though, that is a limitation with the B17. Maybe I'll try the Cambium next time I get a new bike - although I mostly ride recumbents these days.
You're also right about the leather not being what it used to be, but they do a premium version I believe, with a better quality leather.
I did a lot of biking in the 70s-80s-90, nothing much over 100 miles at a time but many club rides and commuting to work. I tried many different saddles and found out a few things. #1, the shape of the saddle is way more important than the padding. #2, thick, soft padding is only comfortable over very short distances, once the padding has compressed it comes down to the underlying shape. #3, very wide saddles may be comfortable to sit on but not to peddle on. But obviously you already know all this. I rode an Ideale 90 for a several years (very similar to a Brooks B-17) and I found it uncomfortable for some time until it broke in, than was fairly comfortable for a year or so but then began to sag and stretch and became uncomfortable again. My next saddle was a Zeuss Soffati which was narrow and light with almost no padding and was white leather with lots of little ventilation holes It looked very nice but also looked very uncomfortable. Surprise, it was the most comfortable bike saddle I've ever owned, and I have been kicking myself ever since for leaving on the bike when I sold it. I've never seen another one anywhere. It just seemed the perfect shape to conform to my anatomy. Since then I've avoided the old style leather saddles in favor of more modern designs with a cutout and a bit of gel padding. I recently bought a folding bike and the cheap no-name saddle it came with is actually surprisingly comfortable on the short rides I go on now, but I'm always looking for something better (and classic brown is always a plus, which narrows the available choices quite a bit). Thanks for the very informative video. I think I may try one of those Charge saddles.
I tried an ISM Adamo Typhoon a few years ago on a MTB, it felt good so I picked up a Prologue for one of my road bikes. I now have 8 of them on various bikes. They seem to be a "love it or hate it" saddle, definitley not for everybody, but I love mine.
need an updated version of this
on my road bike, after trying out many saddles for the past years, i am now absolutely happy with a non padded, crazy lightweight full carbon saddle (berk lupina). its so comfy because the shell flexes (especially when paired with a flexy carbon seatpost) and you sit kind of like in a hammock. if it wouldnt be so expensive i would buy a second one for the gravel bike. there i settled with an ergon sr comp. that also work quite well as long as i dont go into an aggressive aero position for long.
Try the Brooks Team Pro instead. Thicker leather and a little narrower shape has been fantastic for me over the last year.
I’ve got 2 Team Pros and a charge spoon ti as well as a San Marco Rolls on my 4 bikes. Team Pro are the most comfortable but the spoon is good fora racing saddle. My team pro on my commute bike has 12 years and nearly 15,000 miles on it. There’s a little bit of crack8ng at 2 of the rivets but I expect them to last another 3 or 4 years and 5000 miles.
@@terencej72 😃👍
Brooks Cambium C-19 with the cut out center is a very comfortable saddle. Give it a try.
I gave up with Brookes years ago due to Numb Nuts. I tried Rido R2 and finished up changing all 5 of my bikes to these. Good width for sit bones , it is important to set them up correctly with nose slightly pointing up, A rolling sensation is felt at first on the sit bones but this is not noticed after a while...it is due to placing you correctly on these bones unlike other saddles. Definitely good for bigger people like me. They look a bit crap but they work. Price is also very competitive, I have no problems now so I don't need to change.
Used to ride Brooks (3 different ones), but found the single position to constricting. Have had great luck with the Splesh Toupe for a few years now. Bars are around 1-5 cm below saddle depending on bike and riding.
Been trying the Brooks C17 for awhile, and I chose it because it’s not leather, but still utilized flexibility and a cutout.
I rode a Brooks Professional for over 10 years. Didn't have the patience to break in another Brooks and am currently riding a WTB Pure V that I purchased about 10 years ago. Looks a lot like the Charge Spoon and was similarly priced IIRC. Very comfortable and durable saddle.
Maintain your b17 tention it then use bees wax or mink oil, they also sell there own proohide and it will last forever. If you don't your saddle will dip then it will over stress the rivets of your saddle and rip the leather. If I can keep a b17 going for 10 years in constant rain you can too
I am a B17/Professional fan. I always will be. It is the only saddle I have tried that does not give me sores. I have SIX of them total. But I have a bike (which I don't like much) that I keep for riding in the rain. A leather saddle is, of course, a poor choice. So I just ordered a Spoon off Amazon ($28), based upon your recommendation. We'll see if that works.
Hope it works out. The spoon works best if the hbar height is even or lower than your saddle.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Great. I'll let you know.
Worst case is that I am out $30. Best case is that my inability to ride that saddle more than 30-40 miles without discomfort improves.
Thing is, I have Brooks saddles that are 20+ years old, already well used when I bought them. If well conditioned and well protected from they can last decades. If treated like a cheap regular saddle a Brooks won’t last well at all.
If you polish your shoes regularly a Brooks is great. If not, maybe not the best choice.
As it's said in the video, Brooks saddles from 20 years or more ago are fine and may still be going strong, but since then the leather quality has changed. They're no longer using only the strongest part of the hides for high-mileage saddles like the B-17, but all parts of the hide, so it's become a lottery if you get a saddle that will hold up or not.
What you say about caring for a leather saddle is right of course, don't leave it outside in the rain, use fenders, do grease it at least once a year etc.
Brook's saddles as any leather item could last a really long time, this guy is a negligent owner,things don't last to him cause he doesn't take care of them
+1 on the fizik saddle - I use a fizik Vitesse, I'm a guy, but I find the 155mm width just right, and especially the thin, firm padding over the slightly flexy shell. Good quality cover and build too.
I've tried other saddles but I keep coming back to a Brooks or Selle Anatomica. I've got a B-17 on my Brompton with ~ 1500 miles on it that is the most comfortable saddle I own, only thing I don't like about it is use in rain. For my mountain bike, I went with a Brooks Cambium, the jury is still out on that one, I'm not sure I care for it's stiffness and lack of give. On my touring bike, I have a Selle Anatomica, which I find more comfortable than the B17, but it's not going to last as long, I have to tighten the adjustment screw often, otherwise it squeaks when i ride it.
Thanks for the video. After having issues with the build quality of Brooks Saddle, it is good to know that there are other options!
I use a Brooks saddle on my Brompton, but it's a Cambium C17 that the LBS was nice enough to swap when I picked the bike up. It's only a week old, so I can't say how durable it is, but I have to say it's really nice not having to worry about a saddle cover.
I've switched from B17 that broke its tension screw to a Cambium C17 Carved & love it 😍
Phil Shaw I'm being using C17 carved daily for almost three years, and I love it. I want to try one of the new Ergons
Mario Arias sounds good👍 are you referring to Ergon Grips?
Phil Shaw no, Ergon has saddles too, the new one will come with some kind of suspension similar to a running shoe
I did the same switch and then I could set my butterfly bar almost 35° lower. It´s much better confortable now, everything, the saddle and the riding position. No regreat at all
I also went to a Cambium C17 and it is hands-down the most comfortable saddle I've owned. I stopped using riding shorts for day rides--I can go all day with no discomfort whatsoever. Not cheap but worth every penny.
I've had 6 or 7 Brooks over the last 50 or so years and have never had one that tightening the nose piece didn't add tension to the saddle. A quarter turn once in a while, never more than twice a year and never more than a quarter turn at a time, just like Brooks recommends. My oldest saddles are still just as I like them. I still have 4 of those on bikes today.
I also have one Cambium, which never needs anything is now over 5 years old. I bought it right after they stopped using cloth tops. That one still feels just like new. Brooks isn't the only saddle I like but, I look at them as the best value option.
I bought a b17 Last year Dezember. Didnt Found quite the right adjustment yet. But ONLY Rode it twice since i bought. Still waiting for better weather and more sun. Will see in a few weeks. I hope it fits me, that thing wasnt cheap and it looks damn GOOD on my retro bianchi
I had been looking at the Charge Spoon, simply because it "looked" comfortable. But I just didn't buy it as I had no endorsements from anyone. Then, BOOM! you mention it first. I just bought one in "Honey" brown (sorry Brooks).
I currently use a charge spoon and I just purchased a B17 earlier today on eBay. The charge just isn't wide enough so I decided to go with the B17-S. Even though it's supposedly for women I measured my sit bones at 165-170mm range and with the B17-S being 175mm hopefully it will fit perfect.
08/25/2024 Update: I'm still using the B17S on my mtb and it's just started getting comfortable. I went ahead and purchased another Brooks saddle, a standard B17 last week to put on my road bike. The new sadle is hard as a rock and VERY slippery. My B17S is the softened version so it was grippy right away. I'm hoping the slipperiness on this standard B17 goes away eventually. Also I angled the saddle up a bit earlier today to help me not slip off the nose of the saddle.
I have heard a lot of good things about the Serfa RX and that might be the next saddle I try but until then I will happily stay on my Brooks.
Even if brooks leather is lower quality (not sure if that is true) I think it would still have to outlast any other saddle, made of a thin layer of padding and a leather or synthetic cover, as long as you take care of it.
My Brooks has done about 45,000 miles and is still comfortable.
Great Video, thank you for creating it. I gave Brooks B17 a fair shot: 3500 km over 1 year. Still it did not feel like a good saddle for me so I got rid of it and bought a mountain bike saddle with width perfect for my butt bones (they did the gel seat test in the shop). This was not good either. I was riding the Savannah Way on it (2000 km of dirt bumpy road) and ended up power taping a pillow over it and wearing two pairs of chamois. So I changed that to a Tioga double(!) gel saddle on springs... It is a comfy saddle but to wide for me. I am cycling around the world BTW so the saddle is kind of important for me. I still put on two pairs of chamois, Tioga is falling apart too quickly so I am still looking for a good saddle. Before I left off for the global tour I had a Selle Italia FLX Gel Flow - and it seems to me now that this was the best saddle for my butt. Yet again, it was not durable enough. Fisik you show here looks like smthn I would like to try but the price is scaring me. I can have 4-5 Selle Italia FLX Gel Flow saddles for that price. When it comes to the Brooks I have a theory I want to share: Brooks provides comfort in a way that is contrary to the up-to-date knowledge. As we know, we are meant to be supported only on our butt bones, that is why a right saddle for your or mine butt is convex in places where we have butt bones. Brooks breaks in under the butt bones making the saddle concave where other saddles are convex. I am very skinny and my butt bones are just under my skin. Rubbing myself against Brooks caused me pain and at times, when I was not wearing chamois (like cycling to the office) it caused me ulcers. Do you have any advice for me? :)
Yikes! It seems like you've found a great saddle in the Selle Italia FLX Gel Flow and if that works for you then it might be worthwhile to stick with it and just buy multiple saddles that you can ship to yourself. The FIZIKs are very expensive. We have a few bike shops in Portland where you can borrow demo saddles and ride them for 2 weeks before you buy them.
I have a couple of different Brooks saddles and love them. I haven't had any longevity issues, but I keep my saddles waxed with the Brooks leather treatment and also use a waterproof cover when in the rain. The older one is a Flyer model that's about 10 years old and has thousands of miles on it. The springs make this a heavy but very comfortable saddle. I use it on my bikepacking rig and don't need a shock seat post. More recently I've purchase a Selle Anatomica H2. It takes less break in than the Brooks and is super comfortable. One of the nice things about the Selle Anatomica is it is a small family owned company that makes their saddles in the US.
Personally I like the Flyer, which is the same as the B17, but with springs. I'm surprised so few people seem to use it. However, It's good to know what else is available.
Thanks Russ - I feel like taking an anti-brooks stance is a bold move, because they are honestly revered. I use brooks on all of my bikes - still. In every climate. One thing I wanted to ask about is that you specifically call out b-17, but there are other models. I use the flyer on my xtracycle and my commuter. I love the spring versions and I wonder if the spring's give, helps extend the leather life? I have had zero issues with leather quality, and when my rails broke brooks repaired them for free. SO they still have good customer service. Not that it is important in the grand scheme of things, but the brooks aesthetic is honestly so vastly superior to most other saddles, I couldn't even compare. Like it or not, it is nice to like to "look" at your bike.
also, i biked year round in chicago and worked in a place where i had to leave my bike outside, with the proper two bag system, and a saddle cover when I ride, I had ZERO issues with abundance of rain. I know it's not PNW levels, but it's still plenty wet. I honestly can't relate to maintenance issues that relate to a brooks. just be smart and cover it up.
Thanks. I call out the B-17 specifically because it's the model I've had the most experience with and used on most of our touring bikes. I've owned a Flyer, but never put any super long miles on it and like you it was on cargo bike / commuting duty (it was on the Bilenky) so didn't see as much use as the B-17. Yes, the aesthetic of the Brooks can't be beat. I've not seen a synthetic saddle and gone "oooh that looks sweet!". I'd be curious to try one of Swift models to see if it is different, but will have to wait until the wallet allows :)
I'm sure with diligence people can maintain a leather saddle. There are a ton here in Portland. I'm just pretty good at losing saddle covers and get lazy :)
Brooks B17 standard fitted to my 1986 Jackson Super Tourist. Still on the bike still in use and still comfortable. Horses for courses!
Can you an update to this please? Would love to hear how you feel now and how your thoughts have changed 4 years later.
Update soon.
I use the B17 on my Klein Quantum and would not use any other saddle on it. It is superior in comfort, straight out of the box, to another other Brooks I have used. Tried many others including Fiziks and the awful Specialized BG saddles. I am a Brooks and San Marco Rolls fan. I have a C17 on my gravel bike and an old Brooks (pre Italian ownership) Professional on my 653 lugged bike. The Rolls are on my Specialized MTB and Fondriest. I'm still looking for a home for my Swift Ti which is not as comfortable as the B17 or Professional.
I've had a Charge Spoon on my road bike for several years. Super comfortable.
I rode Brooks Pros for several years riding ultras. Eventually, I gave up on them for many of the reasons you mentioned. Plus, living in the SE US, it’s quite humid here which results in a lot of sweat. Brooks saddles do not do well getting wet, and who wants to use a rain cover every ride to protect it from sweat. Once they start to sag, it’s all over. Tightening the tension bolt only turns them into, as we called them back in the day, “ass hatchets.”
Just ordered a Gilles Berthoud Galibier saddle. They do more touring style ones as well. Men and Women specific too. I wanted something more “ comfortable” without the weight of something like a Brooks. So this hit the sweet spot between the two points for me. Will still need to break it in etc but hoping that my rear end will be happy for longer rides.
Good to know.
Thanks for the tip , Iv always wanted a red brooks touring saddle but they never have them , checked there we store and bang red touring saddles , I'll pull the trigger on one in a couple of weeks .
I have to say my Marin Gestalt came with its own stock branded saddle. The first bike I’ve ever had with a saddle I’ve not had to replace. It’s so comfy with or without cycle shorts.
How's your experience with the Marin? In considering the four corners, because the trek 520, surly lht, Kona are not available for a year. Don't see many reviews on it. Not in English atleast.
I ride a brooks B17 on my True North custom built touring bike, after 13000 km It shows no signs of wear and provides great comfort on my 100 - 140 km rides. Has weathered well and I have just treated it with Lexol from time to time. Just got some Prooffide and given it a treatment, so It should do even better for the next 13000 km's. I ride a Fi'zik on my road bike and it's fine for 50 - 75 km rides, usually spend more time out of the saddle on my road bike.
I love my Brooks saddle and I'm thinking of getting another one for my other bike. I may change my mind and try the Charge Spoon due to the cheaper price, but I doubt it. Nice video, though.
I'm for Brooks all the way! Tried plastic saddles, lots of them, and went back to Brooks.
The wear that your see on the Charge (3:34) can be prevented by covering it with black electrical tape when the saddle is new. You can just wrap around the nose and working around the rails. Electrical tape becomes very slippery as your thigh rubs against it and is perfect for this application. I have it on my Selle Italia Turbomatic Gel Flow (also a very good flat saddle) and it works great, even when placed horizontally.
No doubt that it works, but sort of janky to put tape on a new product so it doesn’t break.
Had a Fuji Gran Tourer that came with a 'Belt' Brooks B17 knockoff. That was in 1989. The bike is long gone. Still have the saddle. Did a 2200 mile tour of the British Isles...on that saddle. If it ain't broke...
I LOVE the Charge Spoon! Half the weight, a fraction of the price, and twice the comfort of a Brooks anything.
You could probably try something from Selle SMP next time. The shape of the saddle and the angle of the rails make for slightly odd setup on the seatpost, but these saddles have their fans - myself included. Mine's a Selle SMP Hell (now renamed the "Well"), which is the top model in their "Touring" selection. There are other cheaper models available that come with more padding.
im into selle anatomica for the long rails, but these smp seem to have long rails as well but only the more expensive ones
Try the pre aged Brooks Flyer with springs. Great touring saddle, with b17 form. The pre aging means it breaks in quicker.
I looked at these saddles. They are all 145mm wide. Except the ladle which is 155mm wide. The Brooks B17 is 185mm wide.
I have had two 145mm saddles and both have been too narrow for me.
I just ordered the ladle, if that's no good I'll try the Brooks B17 and just accept it'll need replacing.
I don't wear black shorts and was concerned about the leather die running anyway.
I own a few charge bikes which have the spoon saddle, I'd say they are easily one of the comfiest saddles I've used. The wittkop velodrome on my moulton is a great saddle too
+Rockinroomsrob great value saddles!
I've had a Raleigh Sojourn with a Brooks b17 saddle for 15years and I'm still satisfied with the saddle. Part of owning a leather saddle is conditioning the leather and tightening/replacing the leather drawstring. Might be why your saddle perished after less time. I get the conditioner at the saddle or tack store. Can't remember the name off the top of my head the name of the brand but the stuff is thick and requires a couple of applications to gain the best results. Don't give up on your Brooks based on this video - take care of it!!!
you can adjust the sag by adding lacing. They now sell the imperial B17 which comes pre laced and with a cutout for the perineum.
If you like the Charge Spoon, try a Fabric Scoop saddle. It’s almost exactly the same shape but is a little higher end and comes in a ton of options including 3 different position profiles. I’ve heard that the guys who started Fabric used to work for Charge, but I don’t know for sure. The major difference is that the Scoop is not stitched, it’s adhered to the foam and base directly so the whole thing acts in unison to create a suspended and cushioned comfort. I have had one on my road bike for two years now and it’s held up quite admirably with no maintenance at all. Been really enjoying your channel!
Just got eh fabric scoop shallow profile. Can't say I'm liking it so far. I've only been on it for about 50k as I just got it the other day. Did you find there's a break in or was it comfortable right away for you?
Wandering Sailor Kind of, I don’t think the saddle breaks in, but my body definitely takes several rides to adjust to any new saddle. I also found that I need to point the nose of the saddle up about half a degree to keep from sliding forward. The shallow is for a pretty aggressive road bike so if the profile is wrong for the type of riding you do it’ll be uncomfortable. They have a more padded Scoop radius saddle too for more upright positions. I never believe anyone who says their saddle is instantly comfortable unless they have lost all feeling below the waist. I would give the saddle a few more rides and go from there, if it were me. If you’re in acute pain, don’t ride it.
Carl Shapiro thanks for taking the time to reply. We'll I ride a specialized hybrid bike, so I think my less aggressive riding is not suited for the saddle. I've only had it for a couple of days now though, so I'll make my decision after a couple more rides. I can tell from the narrow profile that the saddle is not designed for that, slightly angled, upright position. I will adjust the front of the saddle a few degrees upwards to see if that helps some. I was thinking of trying the radius but I'm not sure if would make any major difference over the shallow model. Think I'll try one of the specialized power saddles, or an ergon saddle if it doesn't work out. Or, I might fork out the cash for a b17 though I'm not too keen on the weight. Thanks
I have the B17 brooks on my canyon urban commuter but on my gravel bike, i am planning to give WTB volt narrow a try. I bought a breezer inversion last year and it came with this wtb volt saddle…when i sold the bike, i kinda regretted that i did not take the saddle off because i miss that cushion but yet comfy feeling i had with that saddle. Hence…looking for the same saddle to try on my diverge. Will compare with my b17 feeling. Although in comparison, the b17 weight a lot more than the wtb volt…probably saving half of the weight here
I actually love the standard seat that came with my Brompton.
Another choice is the Berthoud Mente, which is 180mm wide, with thicker leather, waterproofing, and rear rivets off the back rather than something to sit on.
My personal preferred one is the Selle Italia Flite, both the new and old versions. I also like the Brooks Cambium, and most of the Specialized saddles I have tested are really confortable. The Fizic Goby isn't bad at all (it is the only Fizik my butt has get used to..) and the SDG Duster is comfortable enough. At the end it depends on your rear end.
I've had a b17 for 2 years and it was comfortable from the word go (unlike the Fabric one I had before) Unfortunately the adjustment bolt has just snapped. Are they easy to mend yourself?
The answer to my own question above (a week later) is no! I bought a new bolt but it's nigh on impossible to wedge back in. My solution was to keep the saddle stem attached and gently open a vice between the metal nose and stem stretching the seat lengthways.
Ha! Risking the wrath of the cult of Surly/Brooks. I use and love the Toupe locally. Considered switching for my tour. Now Im confident in staying with it. Thanks!
Yeah. Not stoked on the big S biz practices, but the Toupe is a comfy saddle.
www.bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2017/11/08/specialized-donates-kids-bikes-sonoma-fire-victims#.WkqxBTeQyUk
They are no worse and probably better than any other large company. We just happen to be closer to them than other large companies because we are passionate about cycling. Regarding the ancient news most complain about...a company is pretty much obligated to protect it's assets. physical, names and intellectual.
Love your site. Its refreshing in its high quality. Happy New Year.
Serfas rx+!!
Marvelous!
No break in.
No worries about rain!
“A taint ridge, which isn’t awesome” best product review comment ever! 🤣
I have the Aliante on my MTB and Tandem. I like them, but wood like something on my tandem to absorb vibration in the road dew to 5 level fusion with disc removed.
My Brooks b17 has about 2k on it and at least a yr and a half of use and it's still tight. Hasn't softened up a bit. The reason I' mentioning this is pretty simple. Leather can differ in strength and stiffness dramatically. It may even be because of your local climate. Also, on different days the saddle is stiffer than others.
I use the Specialized Toupee on my Roubaix, very happy with it! I am trying out the SQLab MTB on my Cannondale Fat Caad 1, so far so good...
Thanks for this and all your other excellent videos. I'd like to see a similar "Alternative to B-17" saddles with other (similar) leather contenders...
I'm not into touring, but did ride a Brooks for a few years back in the day.. It was a good saddle decades ago, Why now?
As you have shown, there are so many better choices out there.. My Brooks now makes for a decoration on my wall, pretty cool to look at, but I wouldn't think to put my butt on it.
Brooks Swallow, but make sure the seat post clasp doesn't foul the wrap under bridge under the nose. Needless to say, it takes at least a month for initial break-in, and then a year or more to get intimately formed and comfortable.
Stephen Saines isn’t that just for racing n not for Long distance?
Very good review my friend!
Your new fan from Warsaw
Great, honest review. I prefer the Selle SMP, but finding the 'right' saddle fit for each ...butt... is really trial & replace! Thanks!!
I'm a Brooks B67 man... after several years, I still haven't worn it out, used it up, or looked for anything as a replacement.
The WTB line of mt bike saddles, like the Volt, I have found are also awesome for gravel and all road. I too ride the Fizik Alliante, i have it on my gravel bike and like it.
Maintenance is the deal breaker for me on the brooks saddles. I love my specialized phenom.
+Craig Lycke yeah. Living in the PNW it's a pain to always remember a saddle cover.
I literally just ride with the rain cover on the B17 all the time. Certainly defeats the purpose in many ways. Thanks for the video.
I always carry a plastic grocery bag. on every bike, but especially useful for brooks equipped. makes a good and cheap train cover or to carry empty beer cans to recycling. or for the impromptu grocery stop. or as a tourniquit.
Every good tool need maintenance.
If you haven't tried one yet, I love the INFINITY seat. I have it on both of my drop bar bikes and thinking of getting a 3rd one for my MTB.
infinitybikeseat.com/?v=7516fd43adaa
I would say Sella Italia Storica and Epoca as really good alternatives to the B17
Another one I have is the Brooks Seallow a lot slimmer but very comfy.
I’ve run the Toupe for years and highly recommend it.
You should try Fabric, as it’s the development brand of Charge saddles. I think they ride well (one long haul tour one one).
Hated the fabric saddle I got. Perhaps it was too narrow, but it had a sharp edge that made it unbearable after 30-40 miles
I ride with the brookes professional on my moulton but all my carbon bikes have the charge spoon as you say there very cheap but great long distance saddle's also the charge is half the weight of the brookes.
I've never ridden a brooks but have had a specialized toupe for the past few years. I would get leg and hand numbness after the 50 mile mark (granted everyone is different), but have recently discovered ergon saddles and am really enjoying the flex and comfort (without the weight penalty). Shhh, they're on sale for great prices at nashbar