It’s honestly wild how small you can go with these new wings. My go-to was a HS1250/1050 or a HA1125/925. The 880 feels too big and I wish I grabbed a 680
Just my $0.02. My absolute go-to wing for surfing was the HA925. The 1125 was slow and didn’t like to turn. The 725 was scary fast and ripped turns but the pump was very unforgiving. The 925 kinda did it all. But it can often feel overpowered in turns. The MA1000 surfing absolutely rips. But the pump is trash. Just my experience from three sessions. The HS1050 pump is weak but rips like a twin fin surfboard. The HS1250 pumps easily. It’s fast. It’s stable. It rips turns. Just a little slow, compared to HA. Now the HA880. These new HAs are absolutely insane!!! They lift off early like a CF wing. They are loose and fun like a HS and MA. They pump effortlessly like a HA. But they have the stall speed of a HS or even CF wing. It’s mind boggling how good these are. I tried to get back on my 1125 and 925 in the surf and hated it. The 880 is just that good. It’s so good, I feel overpowered and could see myself enjoying a 680 or 780 in small waves. TLDR; the new HA wings have crazy early fit, low stall speeds, effortless low frequency pumping, carves so well, breaches well, and just makes foiling easy. I legitimately think a beginner could learn on these new HA wings. It’ll be a struggle, but much more doable than the early HA stuff.
At mid-speed the roll characteristics, lift through the turn and pitch sensitivity is similar, but the Sk8 is much faster and comfortable in its top end, which comes at the compromise of a challenging bottom end for low speed pumping or underpowered riding. The HA has compromised top end speed for bottom end lift, ease and forgiveness.
Awesome info guys! I’ve “backed off” renewing my Armstrong quiver for the last 2 years, waiting for a few cycles of product releases but I’m now looking to tap into the new stuff. I’m an advanced winger and have been loving my 925 and 725. For proning, im not super good at pumping yet so the 925 was hard to keep up to speed, one mistake and the pump was gone. So usually I prone on my HS1550v2, purely because it’s easier to pump. Now with the new MA range and the new HA range, what would be a good foil to add to the quiver (and replace the 1550), for prone foiling but also wingfoiling in waves. I’m 84kg and ride a 60L appletree appleslice v2 board.
Sounds good. The new HA is very powerful for it's size so you can downsize for manoeuvrability easily. You'd find the 1180 has similar power to your 1550 and could be a good swap. the 1080 is a bit more fun to ride and sets up lovely for a 1080, 880, 680 quiver to cover all conditions your current set up does. The HA's do trade speed for lift, so the 680 has a similar speed to your 925. If you want something as fast as your 725 you'd need to grab an MA, which is super fun when powered with the wing or a wave face, but doesn't glide or pump the same. Hope that helps
Thanks for the review. Do you think a lightweight rider (68 kg or 150 pounds) needs a performance mast to ride the HA 880? Regarding the stabilizers, have you tried pairing the new HA front foils with the HA195? What are your thoughts about using the HA 880 for winging? I currently use the MA 1000, it has great breach recovery, but when it loses speed, it just drops abruptly.. Thanks!
The performance mast brings out the best in these foils, adding better response, speed and stability, but the smaller sizes will work fine at your weight on the older mast. I’ve winged and proned the 880 on the old mast and it’s still a gem, just a little more flex to account for when turning / pumping. The 880 will have similar lift and breach characteristics to the MA 1000, but the HA doesn’t ever drop out, it just glides down. Hard to beat that MA roll and pitch stability though. The 195 tail isn’t massively different from the 180 glide, havnt tried the 195 pairing myself, but reckon you’d have no worries on stability or turn if that’s the tail you are used to 🤙
Standard 60 works great as a go-to and is a staple. You could run the 70 if you wanted to increase pitch stability - good for speed, big waves, pumping or pushing hard through turns, but at the cost of a wider turn radius. The 50 would make it more lively, probably too lively for most tastes, unless you’re smashing lots of turns on tiny waves.
@@poseidonwatersportsukI run a 50 and I have folded myself so many times because the pitch stability is gone. Butttt man. It absolutely rips carves in the weakest smallest gutless waves. Pump is good. But the 60 and 70 fuse are magic. Great carves. Great pump. You can recover from a small mistake in a hard turn. The 50 is just too damn sketchy.
Great review!! Do you recommend any shim with the 140 or 180 tail? Im 70kg and using the 880 but looking to buy a 680 for bigger days. Is it easier to get up than the 725 or ma800 for winging? Thank you
For sure the 680 is much easier to get up on foil than the 725 and 800, the low end is amazing on the new HA, but this comes with a compromise to top end speed - the 725 is faster, if that’s what you’re looking for. - Obviously the HA 680 will still need quite a bit of speed before it takes off, but if you are used to a small MA or old HA you’d be fine. No shim needed for 140/180 HA pairing, they feel great without. For winging you might consider increasing top end speed and loosening the back end by sliding one in, but personally I’ve found the tail grip on those tails without a shim felt real nice and predictable on the HA’s turn.
Fantastic review. Thx! I'm a wing foiler (93 kg, moderate skills). I bought the new HA980 with the Speed180. Super glide, phenomenal Frontwing. I'm thinking about getting the Flow220 for less wind and for maneuver training? what recommendation do you give?
Great review. I weigh around 93KG and just started nailing my gybes , I currently have the MA1225 and MA1475 and was thinking the HA 1180 would be a good replacement for the two MA's. I am looking foe a foil that will work on the South Coast, should I stick with the MA's or g for the 1180 ?
The 1180 would bridge those 2 foils you have pretty well and its low end would really help dial in different turns. It might not get going quite as early at the 1475, or be quite as quick as the 1225, but makes a good single wing replacement which is loose and rolly. The 1180 is good for DW too, if that’s on the radar. Also swapping out to 1180 would set you up nicely for adding a HA 880/980 or ma 1000 later down the line too, So yes, the swap to HA could be a wise move for south coast riding at your weight and level, just be aware of the small compromise to bottom end of the 1475 an slower speed than 1225 🤙
Both are great foils but ride very different. The silk is a classic which slices through turbulent water, is very front footed, planted when engaging a roll and loose on the tail. Whereas the HA runs slower with an incredible bottom end and roll, feeling more balanced / back footed which grips through the turn. Neither would disappoint and if you are invested into the AFS system you wouldn’t go wrong with the silk. If you are starting from fresh I’d recommend the HA for a more shortboard feel, or the silk if you want more snowboard vibes. We’ve got a Silk deep dive review in the pipeline which isn’t too far away 🤙
It’s also worth noting that the HA sits about 3 inches further forwards in the mast track than the silk, so depending on your board this might be a consideration 🤙
Nice question. What’s your average conditions / wave weight. And do you like to focus on long glides and multiple wave connections, or hitting hard turns and getting critical on 1/2/3 or waves?
Average conditions are usually waist to shoulder height with slight chop on surface. Coming from surf sup background I'm all about the waves...I can pump but not great at linking waves and I'm happy to ride the swell/ waves come out the end and semi efoil back out to the line up and repeat. Battery Run time is important and starts too.I'm e foiling into waves/swell vs prone foiling into them with the FD- so getting up early to my feet is a priority .
Sweet. Consider the 1180/1080/980. 1180 will give you easiest take off, glide and battery conservation, it’s still really playful for its size too. 980 more lively and faster, better suited to the big days, but will zap more juice and be harder to pump. -1080 is obviously somewhere between. Personally I’d recommend going 1180, it’ll be instant fun and easy, has multiple applications for other disciplines and sets you up nicely to add a 880 to the quiver later down the line. Tail wise - I’d recommend the 180 for a faster ride or the 235 for a more locked in grippy feel
"Flow" is sounding wanky now? Is that a British or Aussie or whatever consensus? Possibly the word is overused, or maybe I'm getting old, but "Flow" is exactly where I want to be.
That AFS mast is pretty special and the silk is a lovely ride, super smooth. Very different feel though, hard to agree that it’s just - better. They each have wins on different categories and will suit different riding styles. Different horses for different courses.
Great info in the ever confusing world of dropping $1000 on a piece of carbon. Much appreciated guys. 🙏 Sid
The 1180 has replaced my HS1850.....I catch smaller waves way easier and glide way further. Using 195 stab. Pumps amazingly
It’s honestly wild how small you can go with these new wings. My go-to was a HS1250/1050 or a HA1125/925. The 880 feels too big and I wish I grabbed a 680
Just my $0.02. My absolute go-to wing for surfing was the HA925. The 1125 was slow and didn’t like to turn. The 725 was scary fast and ripped turns but the pump was very unforgiving. The 925 kinda did it all. But it can often feel overpowered in turns.
The MA1000 surfing absolutely rips. But the pump is trash. Just my experience from three sessions.
The HS1050 pump is weak but rips like a twin fin surfboard. The HS1250 pumps easily. It’s fast. It’s stable. It rips turns. Just a little slow, compared to HA.
Now the HA880. These new HAs are absolutely insane!!! They lift off early like a CF wing. They are loose and fun like a HS and MA. They pump effortlessly like a HA. But they have the stall speed of a HS or even CF wing. It’s mind boggling how good these are. I tried to get back on my 1125 and 925 in the surf and hated it. The 880 is just that good. It’s so good, I feel overpowered and could see myself enjoying a 680 or 780 in small waves.
TLDR; the new HA wings have crazy early fit, low stall speeds, effortless low frequency pumping, carves so well, breaches well, and just makes foiling easy. I legitimately think a beginner could learn on these new HA wings. It’ll be a struggle, but much more doable than the early HA stuff.
yeooww, keep frothing!
Great review thanks guys. Sounds pretty similar to the SK8, is that fair?
At mid-speed the roll characteristics, lift through the turn and pitch sensitivity is similar, but the Sk8 is much faster and comfortable in its top end, which comes at the compromise of a challenging bottom end for low speed pumping or underpowered riding.
The HA has compromised top end speed for bottom end lift, ease and forgiveness.
Great review. I would love to see a deep dive into the triton x1 foil.
Awesome info guys! I’ve “backed off” renewing my Armstrong quiver for the last 2 years, waiting for a few cycles of product releases but I’m now looking to tap into the new stuff. I’m an advanced winger and have been loving my 925 and 725. For proning, im not super good at pumping yet so the 925 was hard to keep up to speed, one mistake and the pump was gone. So usually I prone on my HS1550v2, purely because it’s easier to pump. Now with the new MA range and the new HA range, what would be a good foil to add to the quiver (and replace the 1550), for prone foiling but also wingfoiling in waves. I’m 84kg and ride a 60L appletree appleslice v2 board.
Sounds good. The new HA is very powerful for it's size so you can downsize for manoeuvrability easily.
You'd find the 1180 has similar power to your 1550 and could be a good swap.
the 1080 is a bit more fun to ride and sets up lovely for a 1080, 880, 680 quiver to cover all conditions your current set up does.
The HA's do trade speed for lift, so the 680 has a similar speed to your 925.
If you want something as fast as your 725 you'd need to grab an MA, which is super fun when powered with the wing or a wave face, but doesn't glide or pump the same.
Hope that helps
Thanks for the review. Do you think a lightweight rider (68 kg or 150 pounds) needs a performance mast to ride the HA 880? Regarding the stabilizers, have you tried pairing the new HA front foils with the HA195? What are your thoughts about using the HA 880 for winging? I currently use the MA 1000, it has great breach recovery, but when it loses speed, it just drops abruptly.. Thanks!
The performance mast brings out the best in these foils, adding better response, speed and stability, but the smaller sizes will work fine at your weight on the older mast.
I’ve winged and proned the 880 on the old mast and it’s still a gem, just a little more flex to account for when turning / pumping.
The 880 will have similar lift and breach characteristics to the MA 1000, but the HA doesn’t ever drop out, it just glides down.
Hard to beat that MA roll and pitch stability though.
The 195 tail isn’t massively different from the 180 glide, havnt tried the 195 pairing myself, but reckon you’d have no worries on stability or turn if that’s the tail you are used to 🤙
@poseidonwatersportsuk thank you very much for your input! Kind regards from Brazil!
@@poseidonwatersportsukthe 195 tail tends to cause nose diving at speed with both the MA and new HA series. The 140 and 180 are better suited imo
Great review - thank you. Question for you - what sizes fuses are people using with these for winging? Standard 60?
Standard 60 works great as a go-to and is a staple.
You could run the 70 if you wanted to increase pitch stability - good for speed, big waves, pumping or pushing hard through turns, but at the cost of a wider turn radius.
The 50 would make it more lively, probably too lively for most tastes, unless you’re smashing lots of turns on tiny waves.
@@poseidonwatersportsukI run a 50 and I have folded myself so many times because the pitch stability is gone. Butttt man. It absolutely rips carves in the weakest smallest gutless waves. Pump is good.
But the 60 and 70 fuse are magic. Great carves. Great pump. You can recover from a small mistake in a hard turn. The 50 is just too damn sketchy.
Great review!! Do you recommend any shim with the 140 or 180 tail? Im 70kg and using the 880 but looking to buy a 680 for bigger days. Is it easier to get up than the 725 or ma800 for winging? Thank you
For sure the 680 is much easier to get up on foil than the 725 and 800, the low end is amazing on the new HA, but this comes with a compromise to top end speed - the 725 is faster, if that’s what you’re looking for.
- Obviously the HA 680 will still need quite a bit of speed before it takes off, but if you are used to a small MA or old HA you’d be fine.
No shim needed for 140/180 HA pairing, they feel great without.
For winging you might consider increasing top end speed and loosening the back end by sliding one in, but personally I’ve found the tail grip on those tails without a shim felt real nice and predictable on the HA’s turn.
Fantastic review. Thx! I'm a wing foiler (93 kg, moderate skills). I bought the new HA980 with the Speed180. Super glide, phenomenal Frontwing. I'm thinking about getting the Flow220 for less wind and for maneuver training?
what recommendation do you give?
PS: Glide220
Great review. I weigh around 93KG and just started nailing my gybes , I currently have the MA1225 and MA1475 and was thinking the HA 1180 would be a good replacement for the two MA's. I am looking foe a foil that will work on the South Coast, should I stick with the MA's or g for the 1180 ?
The 1180 would bridge those 2 foils you have pretty well and its low end would really help dial in different turns.
It might not get going quite as early at the 1475, or be quite as quick as the 1225, but makes a good single wing replacement which is loose and rolly.
The 1180 is good for DW too, if that’s on the radar.
Also swapping out to 1180 would set you up nicely for adding a HA 880/980 or ma 1000 later down the line too,
So yes, the swap to HA could be a wise move for south coast riding at your weight and level, just be aware of the small compromise to bottom end of the 1475 an slower speed than 1225 🤙
Thanks for the advice . I think I will go for a 1180, do you guys px, I have a like new 1225 that I would like to PX @@poseidonwatersportsuk
This Armstrong HA or the AFS Silk? So hard to commit to a new system without unlimited budget! :) 🤙
Both are great foils but ride very different.
The silk is a classic which slices through turbulent water, is very front footed, planted when engaging a roll and loose on the tail.
Whereas the HA runs slower with an incredible bottom end and roll, feeling more balanced / back footed which grips through the turn.
Neither would disappoint and if you are invested into the AFS system you wouldn’t go wrong with the silk.
If you are starting from fresh I’d recommend the HA for a more shortboard feel, or the silk if you want more snowboard vibes.
We’ve got a Silk deep dive review in the pipeline which isn’t too far away 🤙
It’s also worth noting that the HA sits about 3 inches further forwards in the mast track than the silk, so depending on your board this might be a consideration 🤙
@@poseidonwatersportsuk Great info thanks. I hadn't even considered that foils would ride more front foot or back foot 👍🤙
Good review. Are you planning to review the code foils soon. Be an interesting addition to your video arsenal.
If you could only have 1 new HA foil and tail combo to use with the FD Gen2 for prone and supfoiling ( im 90kg) what would it be. Thanks
Nice question.
What’s your average conditions / wave weight.
And do you like to focus on long glides and multiple wave connections,
or hitting hard turns and getting critical on 1/2/3 or waves?
Average conditions are usually waist to shoulder height with slight chop on surface. Coming from surf sup background I'm all about the waves...I can pump but not great at linking waves and I'm happy to ride the swell/ waves come out the end and semi efoil back out to the line up and repeat. Battery Run time is important and starts too.I'm e foiling into waves/swell vs prone foiling into them with the FD- so getting up early to my feet is a priority .
Sweet. Consider the 1180/1080/980.
1180 will give you easiest take off, glide and battery conservation, it’s still really playful for its size too.
980 more lively and faster, better suited to the big days, but will zap more juice and be harder to pump.
-1080 is obviously somewhere between.
Personally I’d recommend going 1180, it’ll be instant fun and easy, has multiple applications for other disciplines and sets you up nicely to add a 880 to the quiver later down the line.
Tail wise - I’d recommend the 180 for a faster ride or the 235 for a more locked in grippy feel
Great advice. Im able to demo the 980 and 1080 this week ..but will consider the 1180 too...thanks awesome advice
What did you end up going with? @@byroncrawford8624
"Flow" is sounding wanky now? Is that a British or Aussie or whatever consensus? Possibly the word is overused, or maybe I'm getting old, but "Flow" is exactly where I want to be.
AFS silk in surf foil is so better and the new mast UHM75 the best of the best now...
That AFS mast is pretty special and the silk is a lovely ride, super smooth.
Very different feel though, hard to agree that it’s just - better.
They each have wins on different categories and will suit different riding styles.
Different horses for different courses.
If you could only have 1 new HA foil and tail combo to use with the FD Gen2 for prone and supfoiling ( im 90kg) what would it be. Thanks
Replied below 🤙