1st rule of a cinematic universe: "You do NOT tell everyone that you're making a cinematic universe." 2nd rule of a cinematic universe: "You do NOT imitate the MCU."
Exactly! Don't tell anyone, just build it up and they will see it. and yes don't imitate the MCU, if I want that I will just watch the MCU movies. I want DC to feel different.
It's not the lighter tone. It's the bland villain, the resurrection plot, including cyborg instead of green lantern or martian manhunter, the scales are too high for a first time team. That's why they needed Superman to save them. Justice League should have been about a group of Supervillains like Injustice or the Legion of Doom. Not only would it focus more on the new characters but it would give them all a moment to shine. But, go on and think it was about tone.
@@shripadreddy4852 and Gunn is doing the SAME thing🤣 still lighter tone. MORE comedy and announcing a bunch of shows nobody but hardcore fans will watch. And divided the fans with his decisions
The downfall of the DCEU was their attempt to emulate Marvel's formula instead of sticking to their own thing. In the comics DC in general is usually way more dramatic and mature than Marvel, their animations are violent and edgy... if they had the balls to translated that to the movies, things would've been so much better.
I don't think that's 100% accurate. There're many "dark" daredevil runs. I guess the main issue here was the fact that they rushed too much with the universe. Trying to catch up with avengers, and, it didn't work
As somebody who reads both: No. That's not right. They both have darker titles, they both have lighter titles. It's like arguing the difference between pepperoni pizza and sausage pizza. You're welcome to have your preference, but it's pretty silly to pretend like they're significantly different.
@@sim4344 They are different. Maybe nowadays with all the queerdo shite making Superboy gae and whatnot, but in general DC was always more violent and more grounded. Marvel has some dark runs with Daredevil, like someone else already mentioned... but the overall tone of most comics, animations, and even cartoons for children were always more gritty and mature... even Static Shock and Batman The Animated Series, back in the day.
@@umacalopsitaeumviolao Marvel had some really good, mature runs, like Frank Miller's Daredevil... but in general the overall tone is totally different. And, in fact, they rushed straight to JL instead of working on solo movies for each main character, like Marvel did, was another shoot in the foot.
I think I'm one of the only ones who loved Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice. For me personally, I loved the serious and dark tone and I expected that moving forward. When Suicide Squad came out, that's when I started noticing a problem...
You're not the only one who loves man of steel and batman vs superman ultimate edition. They are some of my favorite films and especially zack snyder justice league
While I did like the Snyder Cut, I still really wish we could have seen how Justice League turned out if George Miller made JL: Mortal or it Ben Affleck made the 2011 Will Beall script with Darkseid as the villain
People blame Snyder but yet it's the WB executives that are the problem and are always the problem. These people meddle in every single DC product that comes out instead of letting the people that they hire do the job. I can't see how any director would ever want any DC project.
If people would have complained, they would have piled on when the allegations started mounting, especially from big name movie stars who don't have to take shit from anybody. Justice League was a uniquely horrible situation for everyone involved. And as much of an asshole Joss has been in some cases, if you look at his whole career, most people actually have enjoyed working with him.
It seems Joss became very "clique-y" after Buffy started getting popular. He develops an in-group that get treated at least normal, but also an out-group that he heaps shit on and makes feel unworthy and unwanted. I don't know what criteria he uses to decide who goes to the cool kids' table, but apparently sleeping with him helps. On Avengers, he was surrounded by people that didn't owe him anything and were big enough to not take a bit of shit off him - so he probably just decided to be normal, as opposed to say, king douche and getting knocked out by Samuel L Jackson. It's not a coincidence that the smallest names on Justice League were the ones that Joss had a problem with. Even if they were the least talented cast members, it was his job to elevate - not decimate.
6:55 Zack said it was Warner Bros that told him to go home and mourn his daughter. He wanted to STAY and finish his work but they insisted. he only got information at home that the studio has brought in Joss Whedon for reshoots. such disrespect.
I'm not the first person to say this on the internet but, there should have been a scene in The Flash, when he sees different worlds, with mustache-superman.
From where did you pull the idea that JK Simmons got jacked to play Commissioner Gordon? With very little effort I found multiple pages that said he didn't get ridiculously muscled to play a guy who never has to fight anyone. It was the result of many years of training because he wanted to get in shape. Not every actor does something for a role. Sometimes people just want to get ripped for themselves.
Everything Joss Whedon did in AVENGERS, the Russo Brothers did better with CIVIL WAR Now Whedon is no longer worthy of doing anything, especially after what he did to this movie
He was a director for hire. He didn't made any creative decision or shot any scene. Just edited it and pretty much "supervised" it for release. The producers should be blamed.
I think they could only do so much in CivilWar, InfinityWar and Endgame BECAUSE there had been an Avengers 1 already setting things up. For instance, the dinamic, quips, the ost-theme.
Screw this movie, Joss whedon is a better writer than anybody in Hollywood right now, name other writers can write cool slick smart dialogues and one liners like joss? Besides Quentin Tarantino
I've watched the CGI Superman face scenes over and over, and the CGI is not evident to me at all. I wonder if more people would miss it if they didn't know.
I remember 10 years ago watching Man of Steel it was so amazing, but every movie after was a decline in story and quality and it culminated with that JL
I didn't like Man of Steel. Superman just slaughters thousands of innocents in a city. At least Batman vs Superman got off on the right foot they're giving Wayne a really good reason to try to take down Superman..... but it never went any further than that. The rest of the movie, Lex Luthor and the Martha bullshit, completely destroyed the film.
Whedon AND Snyder were both bad choices. It's like the 3 bears. One tried to be too light but at least tried to develop characters. One tried to be too edgy but said fuck em and just made them bland goda. They needed to find a good medium.
Man of Steel started the decline my friend. It had amazing action and a nice casting, but most people were not happy with the tone of the film taking itself too seriously, characters had little personality, the story was messy with its whole going back and forth routine, and the movie just like Batman v Superman, it just wasn't fun. I take Superman 2 over Man of Steel any day.
The worst part is that people in Facebook still blame Snyder for the film's failure and behave like ZSJL is a bad movie. They also seem to forgive Joss Whedon very easily by claiming that Whedom was finishing someone else's project. This is despite all the worst parts being essentially Joss Whedon's thumbprints.
Yeah, it kinda sucks that a bunch of idiots are still malding over it, but the most important part of the story was that there were enough positive fans clamoring for Zack Snyder to get a chance to repair & finish his movie, that Hollywood actually bent the knee and gave Snyder a shot at redemption. Some people today act like the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut movement was about "bullying" poor Hollywood execs and poor Joss Whedon "who did his best"... But fans who were there at the time know that we just wanted a chance to see the real Justice League, and that together with "Man of Steel" and the "BvS: Ultimate Edition" (with an extra 30 min of footage), it would at least make for a good, complete Snyder trilogy. It took a lot of time and bullshit, but future generations will now be able to watch the entire "Snyder Cut trilogy" and decide for themselves if they like it or not. Like how *Superman 2* has a Richard Donner cut and a theatrical cut, and there's people who prefer one over the other, but at least they can pick and choose.
ZSJL was trash. Extended runtime, new scenes, more money, more EVERYTHING and it was still the same pile of garbage. He didn't even put his original creation out because he knew you all would hate it. How much better was your life with that Louis gets coffee in SLOW MOTION!!!!!! Fucking add it to the film archives. And for your Wheaton argument. No one is defending anything he did with JL 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Who else is to blame? The worst thing WB did, besides hiring him to make a Superman movie of all things, was not firing him after the disaster of Man of Steel. Whedon was given a movie that was 90% complete, a miniscule budget and half the actors unavailable, while the studio was micromanaging everything. Snyder got a budget, all the actors back, full creative control and years worth of feedback and he still couldn't make a half decent movie.
@@kostaspassias3815 >the disaster of Man of Steel "Man of Steel grossed $291 million in the United States and Canada, and $377 million in other territories, making it the highest-grossing solo Superman film of all time" >Disaster "As of January 2019, Man of Steel has sold more than 2.3 million DVDs along with an estimated of 3.3 million Blu-ray Discs totaling $44.4 million and $76.2 million, respectively, for a total of $120.7 million in sales" my sides
@@randallflagg3700 It also completely ruined Superman as a character and split the fanbase in half. A lot of Snyder fans like to quote numbers. We are talking about SUPERMAN, the single most recognisable hero on the face of the planet, a layup for just about any director, and Snyder fumbled it so bad he made the studio shit its pants as he divided the DC community with his terrible movies and moronic comments. MoS should have made Avengers money, instead it made a splash when it came out and then dropped off the map as it immediately became irrelevant.
Thank you !!!! Thank you ACTUALLY stating facts on what Killed the DCEU.... The execs killed the universe...had nothing to do with ZS really, like his take or not, his vision was profitable and leading up to something, but these execs panicked and wanted a MCU 2.0 which IMHO, DC fans who liked the grounded take on these DC heroes, checked out.
The craziest thing about Warner Bros is that they make better movies than Disney And yet, they cause the most insane kind of problems when it comes to DC
People keep blaming WB. But all the stuff that turns me off about the DCEU seems like it's mostly from Goyer and Snyder. So I dunno. I can't imagine these movies would be much less contentious without WB getting involved.
It was also Snyder too let's be honest. He was the architect, when he's never been known as a story guy. The WB and the executives that allowed him to run loose though was just negligent.
Cavill's mustache is Tom Cruise' s fault. "Mission Impossible" went beyond filming schedule and Cavill had to keep his mustache for the rest of his scenes which needed to be filmed. Cruise should have run a tighter ship and not let filming go over or shot all of Cavill's scenes first, then Cavill could shave off the mo and have a clear lip for "Justice League". If Cavill had to keep his mustache, that is not Whedon's fault.
Hot take, honestly, but the DCEU was doomed from the start. I know folks casually forget, but Man of Steel got roasted pretty badly upon release, and stuff like Batman v. Superman attempting to roll in a whole MCU season level of stuff into one movie, Suicide Squad being an editor's nightmare and the like didn't help matters. And you guys can say it's the studio's fault or whatever, but at the end of the day..... who really wanted more of the Snyder films before the situation with Justice League?
No-one did. Snyder's pitch was "it's post 9-11, nobody wants upbeat heroes, we need dark" when the response to a national tragedy has always to look for the upbeat, the shining light. Whoever the morons WB put in that pitch meeting were should be permanently banned from ever having decision-making control ever again for the rest of their lives before they are banished to the outer circles of Dante's Inferno next to the people who invented reality television.
"So...we're some kind of Suicide Squad?" Will Smith ruined pretty much Suicide Squad alone. Making a happy likeable Deadshot was already the first nail in the coffin. I'm almost 100% sure it was his idea. Not that he would have the skills to portray a really menacing douche and pro killer...he does not. Miscast. From the trailers you could see the PG-13 cancer. Justice League is way better in every way possible.
One thing you didn't get right is that Fabian Wagner (the cinematographer) wasn't involved in the reshoots They hired another DoP to work on the reshoots and the look of the finished product Only 10% of Wagner's footage was used in the final cut, but he received sole credit for the movie, just like Snyder in the director's credit His real work could only been seen in the Snyder Cut
It was never Joss Whedon, it was 100% Snyder. I loved Christopher Nolan's batman, but fucking HATED man of steel when it came out. Yes it had fun stupid anime fight scenes, but the actual characterization of superman and lois were fucking awful. And the main cast were genuinely depressing
Ben Affleck isn't an alcoholic because of JUSTICE LEAGUE, nor did he divorce his wife because of it. He's known to often have an issue imbibing a lot of his adult life, and he outright cheated on his wife with the nanny. The dude was going through some serious problems because of his own choices. The tumult of making this movie certainly didn't help any of that, but it's pretty stupid and dismisses Affleck of accountability to say Justice League cause Affleck's life to fall apart.
Look, I should say, Ben Affleck seems like a genuinely nice guy and he has weaknesses and issues as much as anyone. We all do, and I do like him and his work. It's just videos like this drive me nuts when they leave out some critical info to frame their narrative. If the video is fiction and the narrative is completely up to the author, then do and say whatever you want. But if you're trying to make a retrospective about real people, at least include the reality of the situation, Jo Blo.
We love Affleck, but he's gone on record saying how this was one of the most miserable times of his life and he drank too much making it. Kicked off a rough spiral for him. Not all on the film though. For the record we love Affleck here.
@@JoBloOriginals Ya know, that's fair... and I do know this was a terrible time for him, for a lot of reasons. I suppose I felt like this video was saying it was all due to Justice League, which sounded a bit off mark and out of line... But I may have misinterpreted what y'all were saying about it. I appreciate the response. :)
@@HeresWhyItsCool Nah, your criticism is fair. This video was extremely misleading. There's a huge difference between that "time period" was the most miserable time of my life because my personal life was falling apart and I was drinking to numb the pain away, and the last thing I cared about was running around in a Batman suit versus my life was miserable because of the Joss's JL reshoots. Even the way JoBlo tries to explain it here isn't true. The kick off in the rough spiral happened well before JL reshoots even started.
2 thinks I wish would happen, I would still like Ben affleck to direct a Batman film of some sort(he really is a good director) idc if it’s a short film or something just want to see his take. Also the deathstroke movie would be such a hit! Especially considering that death stroke is one of the few people on par with Batman as a fighter! Those movies I think would make some good movies, I just wish they would get rid of rhe voice modulation but that’s just a personal thing, affleck has a good voice for Bruce IMO and I bet he can do a good Batman
Synder was given a lot of freedom after Whed League bounced. Honestly, it was the best thing that could have happened for the Snyder cut - no studio interference after their movie-by-committee took a nose dive.
Joss Whedon didnt kill anything. WB did. And anyone who's been watching their whole run can tell you that. Their attempt at trying to be Marvel because they felt the need to catch up was their downfall.
You can't entirely blame Whedon for the 2017 version of Justice League. When Snyder left JL, WB refused to wait for him to return or change the movie's release date to properly deal with his family tragedy. WB gave Whedon only 6 months to re-write, reshoot, and finish a movie that wasn't his just so WB could keep their year-end bonuses. You could try to imagine that it was a lot of pressure from WB that provoked Whedon to behave unprofessionally on the set of JL. I fully support the people coming out to speak against him, but he's not the only one to be blamed. Plus, Snyder provoked WB to interfere with JL because of the panned reception of BvS. If Snyder had done a good job, the DCEU would not have been as fractured as it is today, and Whedon would never have been involved.
Reception means Jack if it’s making money. And his were making $$$. And BVS was WB fault as well. They wanted to rush to get to JL. Snyder wanted to do MOS2. That’s why his MoS was a self contained story. Not setting up sequels but COULD if he wanted.
Thank you for saying this. Because wasn the one to making the decision to fire on all cylinders with constant move releases just because WB wanted to play catch up with Marvel.
You kidding? Batman V Superman killed the DCEU. It had such bad word of mouth that it tainted the next in the franchise, much like The Last Jedi tanked Solo. BvS couldn't crack 1 Billion dollars. A Black Panther and Captain Marvel movie each cracked a billion. A competent movie with Batman fighting Superman should have at least made 2 billion.
The reason Man of Steel 2 never happened was because the first one got bad word-of-mouth too. They needed to inject Batman and others right away to save the franchise.
The only good thing about this version of the movie is that we see the Green Lantern using his powers to materialize weapons during the flash back, instead of just shooting green beams like he did in the Snyder Cut.
I would say it was one of the reasons, the first clue that the DCEU was doomed to fail was when Nolan and Goyer left before BVS allowing Snyder to have a blank cheque on what to do and we all know how that turned out
The DCEU was DOA long before Joss Wheden entered the picture. Man of Steel was a bad movie with enough good ideas that things could be salvaged. Batman v Superman was a tire fire that managed to surpass the Phantom Menace as the biggest letdown movie of my lifetime. Suicide Squad was no better. Wonder Woman was the one good movie, and a big reason why is that it distanced itself as much as possible from the turds that came before it. Joss Wheden’s Justice League was feeding chicken soup to a dead man at that point.
I think your the first person to actually get it right everyone else trying so hard to blame black Adam and the flash but truly the downfall began with joss wedons justice league
Batman vs Superman dawn of Martha was such monstrous garbage, and yeah, rather than giving the cast their own movie they chose to rush it. The Snyder cut is better, but not by much.
I'm waiting for people to see how Smallville NAILED the same characters...so perfect. Well written, respectful yet refreshingly hopeful in a whole new way. This movie was insulting to each of the fantastically cast characters. It's such a waste of amazing potential. The whole series is. The closest they got was the first Womder Woman.
Happy to see that mostly everyone in the comment section agrees that WB was entirely at fault. And not Joss Whedon's version of the Justice League. Because they're the ones who made the final decisions on everything. Including hiring Whedon to finish a movie that wasnt his.
The DCEU was dead on arrival with Man of Steel. It was a depressing mess only to be followed by batman V superman and suicide squad. Simply said, they're all terrible films. The first Wonder Woman was decent but Gadot can't sustain that role.
You people who defend Snyder’s dc universe are like the mothers on Maury claiming how much the baby looks just like the man they claim to be the father when they clearly do not
both movies were ok at best lol. people act like synder woulda made it perfect but we forgetting batman was gonna knock up Lois lane etc lol dude was no genius either lol
I thought the Snyder Cut was pretty damn good. If only Snyder was was able to bring his complete vision to the screen from beginning to end without studio interference, it would have been truly an amazing film. As is, it was still a great film. And the "original" Whedon cut was abysmal. Marvel and DC are VERY different, and Whedon tried to turn a DC movie into a Marvel movie, which just ruined the feel of the movie completely. Stupid jokes that don't belong in a DC property, those damn filters on practically every shot.. UGH!
It’s kind of crazy that a movie like Justice league was such a cluster fuck that it made Affleck quit Batman. If WB hadn’t screwed this up we would have gotten a solo Batman movie directed by Matt Reeves starring Affleck. Imagine that
The odd thing is the Director's Cut is lighter in tone than MOS and BVS. Not overtly like the Theatrical Cut, so as much as I actually enjoy the Theatrical Cut, I'm a little amazed it happened at all. I could understand if the studio just wanted Snyder's version to be shorter. There's a lot of padding in that one.
IMHO, people flipping out and making mountains out of molehills over something like the digital removal of Henry Cavill’s mustache…is truly *_NEEDLESS_* and *_RIDICULOUS._*
I would argue that it started dying earlier than that. But it was a HUGE nail in the coffin. I remember my mom loving most of the Marvel movies coming out at the time. When I asked if they were going to go see the new Superman, Batman, etc movie. All she would say is, “why do they keep changing the actor?” Or “I don’t really like those new movies” I think the last DC movies she enjoyed were The Dark Knight Trilogy. I’m pretty sure she hasn’t seen Batman V Superman, or anything after it. But….she watched 95% of the Marvel movies, all the way through Endgame.
I will say, I had to pause your video early on so I could listen to the full Superman 1979 theme. As far as I am concerned the best of the aspirational superhero movies.
(The League arrive in Russia) Aquaman: Call it, captain. Batman: Alright, listen up. Until this movie ends, our priority is to not let people think they are watching an Avengers rip-off. Aquaman, be as hunkiest as you can, but don't act like a god. Cyborg, you can fly and shoot lasers, try not to act like Iron Man. Aquaman: Give me a lift? Cyborg: Right. Better clench up, Thor. Batman: Diana, I don't know how long Superman will be banging Lois, so try to do everything Superman does. You got the shield. Don't use it as a frisbee. I'll do what I can with my gadgets and my sweet vehicles so no one thinks I'm Nick Fury. And Barry? (Barry turns and glares at Bruce) Batman: Do your best impersonation of a dimwitted child for the sake of comic relief. (Barry grins and runs away)
While the mess of Justice League more or less put the final nail in the coffin the entire Snyder-era DCEU started with one foot in the grave. Now let me be absolutely clear here: if you love the Snyder films then that's absolutely fair. We all have our own opinions and everyone enjoys different things. But, crucially, while both Snyder films did make money neither were the sorts of financial successes they should have been given the talent, characters and general culture at the time of their release. The wider audience switched off and the sentiment was clear by the time JL was in production. Continuing down the Snyder route would likely have seen similar results, albeit probably with different problems, and it's a shame that there's such a vocal chunk of the fanbase who insist the Snyderverse should come back and everything else is trash. For that matter - and I appreciate this video is focused on the Whedon cut of JL but feel this has to be raised - can we be clear that the world has never and will never see the Snyder version of this film? What's out there now is a *four hour long* cut of a 'movie' designed for streaming services, there's no way that gets released to cinemas without at least 90 minutes cut out of it. Which does lead the casual observer to wonder just what the hell the original plan was. It couldn't have been what Snyder ended up making when he got the chance and with the amount of work and reshoots involved it's unlikely to have been mostly the Whedon version.
Eisenberg was the worst choice for Luthor and they wrote him way too goofy, as if they wanted him to be more Joker-esque. The CGI moustache removal is the least of this production's woes. I blame improper build-up to a lackluster ensemble piece that had no stakes.
This movie represents exactly why Hollywood is no longer revered. Way too much money is spent in the production of this crap. Actors get paid too much. Marketing cost way, way, way too much. CGI is so ridiculously difficult, it takes a literal army of artists half a year to produce 70-125 digital shots. The reliance on multiple action sequences, 3 hour scripts and terrible CGI with the eventual rewrites bloats these movies into monsters that have no chance of breaking even. Let alone make a profit. Joss Whedon basically held the studio hostage and attempted to remove Zach's fingerprints from this movie, instead of helping Zach find a complete vision.
This movie may have been the breaking point but the cracks were showing in BvS movie. That movie was a mess with shoe horned scenes. Man of Steel wasn't perfect but there was room to grow. Killing the main hero in the second film was stupid. Would people have been as invested in Iron Man if he died in his second outing, or was his death not more impactful later in the franchise? The movie was rushed and it showed. The George Miller one could have been interesting but it had a horrible cast. Speaking of, I'm also not a fan of Ezra Miller's Flash. I'm kinda not a fan of him as a person let alone a hero. The Flash movie was absolutely terrible. It had a couple of cool things but it was everything and the kitchen sink kind of film with shitty CGI. And his suit looks like shit, he looks like a dick in that thing. They got Flash more accurate in the TV show, despite the abysmal writing in the last few seasons. The suit looked better on the small screen than the big screen. That shouldn't happen. All the DCEU films did was take great characters, shit on them, set them aflame, and put the ashes out with piss. Great legacy WBs. The studio failed their properties. And why can't they hire a comic book writer for these films? They write scripts for a living. Many of them better than a lot of movies.
It's unfair to say it's his fault. The PRODUCERS didn't wanted to wait for the horrible thing that happened to Snyder and then hired someone to just edit and release it. That already was a decision to kill the DCEU. Snyder's daughter commited suicide and the producers didn't had the slightest consideration for him or the movie. Whedon didn't film any scenes or had any creative input in it. Just a director for hire.
Hopefully the next "Justice League" team-up movie set in Peter Safran and James Gunn's DC Universe will do better than this cut that came out in theaters did 🦸 #DCU #DCUniverse #JamesGunn #PeterSafran #DCStudios #WBD
I'm one of the few who loved MOS, I even saw it at least 3 times in theaters. But yeah I agree, they fumbled the ball when they tried to play catch up with Marvel and I will always be salty about it.
Zack Snyder killed the DCEU. Joss is just a convenient scapegoat. Anyone who believes that a 2 hour studio mandated Snyder Cut version of the movie would have been well received at the box office when the Snydercut barely even makes sense at 4 hours is just in denial. It would have just been BvS the sequel, which was critically panned and a box office disappointment. The end result would have just been the same regardless. Ben Affleck was ALREADY drinking and was over being Batman before they started reshoots. Blaming Joss is so shallow. His allegations of abuse, also has nothing to do with how audiences received the film. All that drama happened well after JL was out.
Joss Whedon is the one to be held responsible. All the hated parts of Josstice League had his thumbprints from the "thirsty woman" joke to the part where Flash fell on Wonder Woman. Stop defending him just because he directed The Avengers.
@@imaadshahrukh4829 I'll take a half second awkward boob plant over a 5 minute slow motion sequence of the Flash caressing a complete stranger's face while phallic hot dogs fly in her face after she caused a car accident (lol, she was the second woman who couldn't drive too) because she was so enamored by how hot he was. This is why I can't take people who like Snydercut seriously. I'll take a thirsty line over completely negating what was supposed to be a tender moment of connection over the loss of a loved one to wink at the camera, none of that mattered, cuz MARTIAN CAMEO! Not saying "Joss's" (because let's be honest, the studio gave him mandates, and he would have done it completely different had he started from scratch with his own script and cast) version was great, I just prefer it over the extended nonsensical drivel that was the Snydercut. Joss's version was a semi-fun throwaway popcorn romp that was tonally odd and had some bad jokes. Snyder's was pretentious and yet at the same time unintelligent, bloated, yet a narrative mess even though he had 4 hours, and bizarre character choices that make the villains seem incompetent and the heroes psychotic and deranged.
I think Justice League 2017 was needed to humble everyone a bit to show having more jokes and fun in a movie doesn’t necessarily make it better. If anything Justice League feels more disposable and throwaway than the then despised Batman V Superman.
Lol WB asked Whedon to step in to the Synderverse established DCEU ... characters trying to alter and retell someone else's story..he would've been better off starting from scratch retelling his own story...DCEU downfall started with BvS ...with that JL Synder cut not sure how 4hrs would've made it to theaters
It wasn’t just Joss Whedon who ruined Justice League, but WB completely ruined Zack Synder’s vision and all the behind the scenes drama (including Whedon’s ego-driven behavior) sealed the movie’s fate and still an unwatchable movie. I don’t blame Zack Synder, he had a difficult time filming the movie after his daughter took her own life, but WB made a big mistake signing up Joss to do the reshoots and when it came out, it felt like a different version of Justice League, but incompleted. When it came out, Josstice League was underwhelming. Poor reviews, dismal box office, everything. Releasing the film just to get slaughtered by Thor: Ragnarok was a desperation attempt by the hubris of WB’s mismanagement of DC Films and it backfired. The DCEU would’ve been dead before Aquaman made a billion dollars.
One thing marvel did right was their producers taking control from the start of phase 1 till the end of their successful endgame ,directors comes and go but ghe producers remain in power from the start,thanks to kevin feige's relationship with the Disney higher-ups, and completely excluding any comic book writer\artist from the start. Whereas DC involved CB writers from the earlier Nolan days eventually giving them steering wheel at the end of nolan / goyer days ,the then WB execs gave geoff johns the critical control of DCEU and many many scandals of Tsujihara and demise of the Wizarding world franchise after the Alan horne era.
What killed the dceu is being inconsistent....If Zack or WB had any brains they would've went MoS, Batman, WW than JL followed by Aquaman, GL, Flash....BvS was a unnecessary movie....Shazam & Cyborg could've had their own shows on max....Than after you build up the world do a year of the villains with Black Adam, Suicide Squad & BoP....but everyone was in a rush....
I don't understand how Warner even has an audience for anything. All their movies and TV shows are incredibly campy and cheap. From the directing to the acting and writing, it's a miracle if something good comes out of it Their super hero movie props look like what you'd find in the Walmart toy section
If they had just kept the existing Batman and Superman, they wouldn't have been so far behind Marvel. Who knows how much different things would have gone ...
I was fully in the RTSC movement and believed in what Zack was doing. I was a fan of Joss prior to learning what kind of person he is. This film is proof of the biggest Lesson from Feiges MCU: STICK TO YOUR OWN PATH I remember every online site, maybe even this one, saying how they should have done the same thing as MCU Well, they got the guy who basically set the going template of the MCU with Joss as the avengers really set the proper Marvel formula Look what happen? It failed. WB could have saved so much financially and even what happened behind just by releasing the 214 version of ZSJL back in 2017. MOS, BVS, ZSJL watched all together is the full story and pay off
Both Justice League movies are considered bad by fandom anyways, especially me. Snyder's just drags on longer with a different ending, no big deal. I read about his proposed sequels and i think they'd be just as bad.😊
1st rule of a cinematic universe:
"You do NOT tell everyone that you're making a cinematic universe."
2nd rule of a cinematic universe:
"You do NOT imitate the MCU."
Exactly! Don't tell anyone, just build it up and they will see it. and yes don't imitate the MCU, if I want that I will just watch the MCU movies. I want DC to feel different.
@@antiloser-NFS That's the fate that befell the Dark Universe with the infamous The Mummy movie with Tom Cruise.
Whoever thought this movie could use a lighter tone should be FIRED!!!
EXACTLY !
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse
It's not the lighter tone. It's the bland villain, the resurrection plot, including cyborg instead of green lantern or martian manhunter, the scales are too high for a first time team. That's why they needed Superman to save them. Justice League should have been about a group of Supervillains like Injustice or the Legion of Doom. Not only would it focus more on the new characters but it would give them all a moment to shine. But, go on and think it was about tone.
WB 🤣
He got fired . James Gunn is the new ceo
@@shripadreddy4852 and Gunn is doing the SAME thing🤣 still lighter tone. MORE comedy and announcing a bunch of shows nobody but hardcore fans will watch.
And divided the fans with his decisions
The downfall of the DCEU was their attempt to emulate Marvel's formula instead of sticking to their own thing. In the comics DC in general is usually way more dramatic and mature than Marvel, their animations are violent and edgy... if they had the balls to translated that to the movies, things would've been so much better.
I don't think that's 100% accurate. There're many "dark" daredevil runs. I guess the main issue here was the fact that they rushed too much with the universe. Trying to catch up with avengers, and, it didn't work
Absolutely. Blaming it on Joss Whedon is absolutely absurd when WB were the ones making the decisions.
As somebody who reads both: No. That's not right. They both have darker titles, they both have lighter titles. It's like arguing the difference between pepperoni pizza and sausage pizza. You're welcome to have your preference, but it's pretty silly to pretend like they're significantly different.
@@sim4344 They are different. Maybe nowadays with all the queerdo shite making Superboy gae and whatnot, but in general DC was always more violent and more grounded. Marvel has some dark runs with Daredevil, like someone else already mentioned... but the overall tone of most comics, animations, and even cartoons for children were always more gritty and mature... even Static Shock and Batman The Animated Series, back in the day.
@@umacalopsitaeumviolao Marvel had some really good, mature runs, like Frank Miller's Daredevil... but in general the overall tone is totally different. And, in fact, they rushed straight to JL instead of working on solo movies for each main character, like Marvel did, was another shoot in the foot.
I think I'm one of the only ones who loved Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice. For me personally, I loved the serious and dark tone and I expected that moving forward. When Suicide Squad came out, that's when I started noticing a problem...
You are, by far, not one of the only ones who loves those two films.
You're not the only one who loves man of steel and batman vs superman ultimate edition. They are some of my favorite films and especially zack snyder justice league
While I did like the Snyder Cut, I still really wish we could have seen how Justice League turned out if George Miller made JL: Mortal or it Ben Affleck made the 2011 Will Beall script with Darkseid as the villain
People blame Snyder but yet it's the WB executives that are the problem and are always the problem. These people meddle in every single DC product that comes out instead of letting the people that they hire do the job. I can't see how any director would ever want any DC project.
If Joss Wheedon behavior during the reshoots of Justice League was horrible, I wonder how he behaved during the filming of Avengers 1and 2?
If people would have complained, they would have piled on when the allegations started mounting, especially from big name movie stars who don't have to take shit from anybody. Justice League was a uniquely horrible situation for everyone involved. And as much of an asshole Joss has been in some cases, if you look at his whole career, most people actually have enjoyed working with him.
It seems Joss became very "clique-y" after Buffy started getting popular. He develops an in-group that get treated at least normal, but also an out-group that he heaps shit on and makes feel unworthy and unwanted. I don't know what criteria he uses to decide who goes to the cool kids' table, but apparently sleeping with him helps.
On Avengers, he was surrounded by people that didn't owe him anything and were big enough to not take a bit of shit off him - so he probably just decided to be normal, as opposed to say, king douche and getting knocked out by Samuel L Jackson.
It's not a coincidence that the smallest names on Justice League were the ones that Joss had a problem with. Even if they were the least talented cast members, it was his job to elevate - not decimate.
And other TV shows like agents of shield,(directed the first episode), dollhouse, firefly
That line " Kalel no!" is soo cringy to me. However Henry was the epitome of Superman. He should have never been replaced.
It's because her acting abilities leave a fair bit to be desired.
6:55 Zack said it was Warner Bros that told him to go home and mourn his daughter. He wanted to STAY and finish his work but they insisted. he only got information at home that the studio has brought in Joss Whedon for reshoots. such disrespect.
I'm not the first person to say this on the internet but, there should have been a scene in The Flash, when he sees different worlds, with mustache-superman.
From where did you pull the idea that JK Simmons got jacked to play Commissioner Gordon? With very little effort I found multiple pages that said he didn't get ridiculously muscled to play a guy who never has to fight anyone. It was the result of many years of training because he wanted to get in shape. Not every actor does something for a role. Sometimes people just want to get ripped for themselves.
Everything Joss Whedon did in AVENGERS, the Russo Brothers did better with CIVIL WAR
Now Whedon is no longer worthy of doing anything, especially after what he did to this movie
He was a director for hire.
He didn't made any creative decision or shot any scene.
Just edited it and pretty much "supervised" it for release.
The producers should be blamed.
I think they could only do so much in CivilWar, InfinityWar and Endgame BECAUSE there had been an Avengers 1 already setting things up. For instance, the dinamic, quips, the ost-theme.
Screw this movie, Joss whedon is a better writer than anybody in Hollywood right now, name other writers can write cool slick smart dialogues and one liners like joss? Besides Quentin Tarantino
I've watched the CGI Superman face scenes over and over, and the CGI is not evident to me at all. I wonder if more people would miss it if they didn't know.
Hardly noticeable yet not as great as fan done versions too.
I remember 10 years ago watching Man of Steel it was so amazing, but every movie after was a decline in story and quality and it culminated with that JL
I didn't like Man of Steel. Superman just slaughters thousands of innocents in a city. At least Batman vs Superman got off on the right foot they're giving Wayne a really good reason to try to take down Superman..... but it never went any further than that. The rest of the movie, Lex Luthor and the Martha bullshit, completely destroyed the film.
@@goffe2282 he didn’t “just slaughter thousands” for the hell of it🤦🏽♂️
Whedon AND Snyder were both bad choices.
It's like the 3 bears.
One tried to be too light but at least tried to develop characters. One tried to be too edgy but said fuck em and just made them bland goda.
They needed to find a good medium.
Man of Steel started the decline my friend. It had amazing action and a nice casting, but most people were not happy with the tone of the film taking itself too seriously, characters had little personality, the story was messy with its whole going back and forth routine, and the movie just like Batman v Superman, it just wasn't fun. I take Superman 2 over Man of Steel any day.
@@jorgea8518 Welcome to Snyderverse
The worst part is that people in Facebook still blame Snyder for the film's failure and behave like ZSJL is a bad movie. They also seem to forgive Joss Whedon very easily by claiming that Whedom was finishing someone else's project. This is despite all the worst parts being essentially Joss Whedon's thumbprints.
Yeah, it kinda sucks that a bunch of idiots are still malding over it, but the most important part of the story was that there were enough positive fans clamoring for Zack Snyder to get a chance to repair & finish his movie, that Hollywood actually bent the knee and gave Snyder a shot at redemption.
Some people today act like the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut movement was about "bullying" poor Hollywood execs and poor Joss Whedon "who did his best"...
But fans who were there at the time know that we just wanted a chance to see the real Justice League, and that together with "Man of Steel" and the "BvS: Ultimate Edition" (with an extra 30 min of footage), it would at least make for a good, complete Snyder trilogy.
It took a lot of time and bullshit, but future generations will now be able to watch the entire "Snyder Cut trilogy" and decide for themselves if they like it or not. Like how *Superman 2* has a Richard Donner cut and a theatrical cut, and there's people who prefer one over the other, but at least they can pick and choose.
ZSJL was trash. Extended runtime, new scenes, more money, more EVERYTHING and it was still the same pile of garbage. He didn't even put his original creation out because he knew you all would hate it. How much better was your life with that Louis gets coffee in SLOW MOTION!!!!!! Fucking add it to the film archives. And for your Wheaton argument. No one is defending anything he did with JL 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Who else is to blame? The worst thing WB did, besides hiring him to make a Superman movie of all things, was not firing him after the disaster of Man of Steel. Whedon was given a movie that was 90% complete, a miniscule budget and half the actors unavailable, while the studio was micromanaging everything. Snyder got a budget, all the actors back, full creative control and years worth of feedback and he still couldn't make a half decent movie.
@@kostaspassias3815
>the disaster of Man of Steel
"Man of Steel grossed $291 million in the United States and Canada, and $377 million in other territories, making it the highest-grossing solo Superman film of all time"
>Disaster
"As of January 2019, Man of Steel has sold more than 2.3 million DVDs along with an estimated of 3.3 million Blu-ray Discs totaling $44.4 million and $76.2 million, respectively, for a total of $120.7 million in sales"
my sides
@@randallflagg3700 It also completely ruined Superman as a character and split the fanbase in half. A lot of Snyder fans like to quote numbers. We are talking about SUPERMAN, the single most recognisable hero on the face of the planet, a layup for just about any director, and Snyder fumbled it so bad he made the studio shit its pants as he divided the DC community with his terrible movies and moronic comments. MoS should have made Avengers money, instead it made a splash when it came out and then dropped off the map as it immediately became irrelevant.
Gym Gordon clarified that he didn't work out for the role specifically. He always tries to remain fit and healthy.
Whedon didnt kill it. Snyder did. His movies were all a mess. His stories and casting choices were absolute shit.
Thank you !!!! Thank you ACTUALLY stating facts on what Killed the DCEU....
The execs killed the universe...had nothing to do with ZS really, like his take or not, his vision was profitable and leading up to something, but these execs panicked and wanted a MCU 2.0 which IMHO, DC fans who liked the grounded take on these DC heroes, checked out.
The craziest thing about Warner Bros is that they make better movies than Disney
And yet, they cause the most insane kind of problems when it comes to DC
🤣🤣🤣 They make better movies then Disney?! Laughable comment
SO TRUE ! WB execs just can't help themselves regarding studio interference and meddling with their DC movies 🙄🤦😒 !
When there's that much money involved there's too many people wanting a slice of that pie. They just couldn't get out of their own way.
Thank you!
People keep blaming WB. But all the stuff that turns me off about the DCEU seems like it's mostly from Goyer and Snyder. So I dunno. I can't imagine these movies would be much less contentious without WB getting involved.
The problem wasn't Whedon, it was and always has been Warner Brothers and their executives
It was also Snyder too let's be honest. He was the architect, when he's never been known as a story guy. The WB and the executives that allowed him to run loose though was just negligent.
Cavill's mustache is Tom Cruise' s fault.
"Mission Impossible" went beyond filming schedule and Cavill had to keep his mustache for the rest of his scenes which needed to be filmed.
Cruise should have run a tighter ship and not let filming go over or shot all of Cavill's scenes first, then Cavill could shave off the mo and have a clear lip for "Justice League".
If Cavill had to keep his mustache, that is not Whedon's fault.
Hot take, honestly, but the DCEU was doomed from the start. I know folks casually forget, but Man of Steel got roasted pretty badly upon release, and stuff like Batman v. Superman attempting to roll in a whole MCU season level of stuff into one movie, Suicide Squad being an editor's nightmare and the like didn't help matters. And you guys can say it's the studio's fault or whatever, but at the end of the day..... who really wanted more of the Snyder films before the situation with Justice League?
No-one did. Snyder's pitch was "it's post 9-11, nobody wants upbeat heroes, we need dark" when the response to a national tragedy has always to look for the upbeat, the shining light. Whoever the morons WB put in that pitch meeting were should be permanently banned from ever having decision-making control ever again for the rest of their lives before they are banished to the outer circles of Dante's Inferno next to the people who invented reality television.
"So...we're some kind of Suicide Squad?"
Will Smith ruined pretty much Suicide Squad alone.
Making a happy likeable Deadshot was already the first nail in the coffin.
I'm almost 100% sure it was his idea.
Not that he would have the skills to portray a really menacing douche and pro killer...he does not. Miscast.
From the trailers you could see the PG-13 cancer.
Justice League is way better in every way possible.
@@aaronleverton4221 9/11 was September 11 2001 lol wtf you taking about pitches like it was 2011 lol
@@VaiderGaming No shit, Sherlock. Next time, learn what you're commenting on before you comment on it.
@@aaronleverton4221 learn to know wtf you are talking about about.
Joss Whedon be like...
"MY VERSION IS FAR GREATER THAN YYYYYOOOOOUUURRRRRSSS!!!!"
One thing you didn't get right is that Fabian Wagner (the cinematographer) wasn't involved in the reshoots
They hired another DoP to work on the reshoots and the look of the finished product
Only 10% of Wagner's footage was used in the final cut, but he received sole credit for the movie, just like Snyder in the director's credit
His real work could only been seen in the Snyder Cut
It was never Joss Whedon, it was 100% Snyder. I loved Christopher Nolan's batman, but fucking HATED man of steel when it came out. Yes it had fun stupid anime fight scenes, but the actual characterization of superman and lois were fucking awful. And the main cast were genuinely depressing
Ben Affleck isn't an alcoholic because of JUSTICE LEAGUE, nor did he divorce his wife because of it. He's known to often have an issue imbibing a lot of his adult life, and he outright cheated on his wife with the nanny. The dude was going through some serious problems because of his own choices. The tumult of making this movie certainly didn't help any of that, but it's pretty stupid and dismisses Affleck of accountability to say Justice League cause Affleck's life to fall apart.
Look, I should say, Ben Affleck seems like a genuinely nice guy and he has weaknesses and issues as much as anyone. We all do, and I do like him and his work. It's just videos like this drive me nuts when they leave out some critical info to frame their narrative. If the video is fiction and the narrative is completely up to the author, then do and say whatever you want. But if you're trying to make a retrospective about real people, at least include the reality of the situation, Jo Blo.
We love Affleck, but he's gone on record saying how this was one of the most miserable times of his life and he drank too much making it. Kicked off a rough spiral for him. Not all on the film though. For the record we love Affleck here.
@@JoBloOriginals Ya know, that's fair... and I do know this was a terrible time for him, for a lot of reasons. I suppose I felt like this video was saying it was all due to Justice League, which sounded a bit off mark and out of line... But I may have misinterpreted what y'all were saying about it.
I appreciate the response. :)
@@HeresWhyItsCool You weren't the only one who thought the video was saying that it was all JL fault.
@@HeresWhyItsCool Nah, your criticism is fair. This video was extremely misleading. There's a huge difference between that "time period" was the most miserable time of my life because my personal life was falling apart and I was drinking to numb the pain away, and the last thing I cared about was running around in a Batman suit versus my life was miserable because of the Joss's JL reshoots. Even the way JoBlo tries to explain it here isn't true. The kick off in the rough spiral happened well before JL reshoots even started.
Wish we had a Ben Affleck Batman movie with a script he wrote
2 thinks I wish would happen, I would still like Ben affleck to direct a Batman film of some sort(he really is a good director) idc if it’s a short film or something just want to see his take. Also the deathstroke movie would be such a hit! Especially considering that death stroke is one of the few people on par with Batman as a fighter! Those movies I think would make some good movies, I just wish they would get rid of rhe voice modulation but that’s just a personal thing, affleck has a good voice for Bruce IMO and I bet he can do a good Batman
I wasn't crazy about the Snyder Cut, but at least the tone in that version was more consistent than Whedon's version.
Synder was given a lot of freedom after Whed League bounced. Honestly, it was the best thing that could have happened for the Snyder cut - no studio interference after their movie-by-committee took a nose dive.
As much as I want to blame JL, Ben became an alcoholic on his own, he's an adult
This is why I referred to this version of the film as Josstice League, because Joss Weadon ‘jossed’ all over the film, lol.
Sucks how Green Lantern was excluded from both the Whedon Cut and Snyder Cut
I'm talking John Stewart or Hal Jordan.
Joss Whedon didnt kill anything. WB did. And anyone who's been watching their whole run can tell you that. Their attempt at trying to be Marvel because they felt the need to catch up was their downfall.
You can't entirely blame Whedon for the 2017 version of Justice League. When Snyder left JL, WB refused to wait for him to return or change the movie's release date to properly deal with his family tragedy. WB gave Whedon only 6 months to re-write, reshoot, and finish a movie that wasn't his just so WB could keep their year-end bonuses. You could try to imagine that it was a lot of pressure from WB that provoked Whedon to behave unprofessionally on the set of JL.
I fully support the people coming out to speak against him, but he's not the only one to be blamed. Plus, Snyder provoked WB to interfere with JL because of the panned reception of BvS. If Snyder had done a good job, the DCEU would not have been as fractured as it is today, and Whedon would never have been involved.
No we can't entirely blame him. Honestly, an impossible assignment all around.
This is a very fair comment.
Glad we find out he's decades of abusive nature towards the cast of angel, Buffy from his JL stint
Reception means Jack if it’s making money. And his were making $$$. And BVS was WB fault as well. They wanted to rush to get to JL. Snyder wanted to do MOS2. That’s why his MoS was a self contained story. Not setting up sequels but COULD if he wanted.
Thank you for saying this. Because wasn the one to making the decision to fire on all cylinders with constant move releases just because WB wanted to play catch up with Marvel.
You kidding? Batman V Superman killed the DCEU. It had such bad word of mouth that it tainted the next in the franchise, much like The Last Jedi tanked Solo. BvS couldn't crack 1 Billion dollars. A Black Panther and Captain Marvel movie each cracked a billion. A competent movie with Batman fighting Superman should have at least made 2 billion.
The reason Man of Steel 2 never happened was because the first one got bad word-of-mouth too. They needed to inject Batman and others right away to save the franchise.
It didn’t, Man of Steel did, the DCEU was doomed from inception
So excited for the Snyder cut craziness video you make! I already like this vid, but that one is gonna be AWESOME! 😂
The biggest mistake was not including the Wonder Twins and Wonder Dog
This movie got 1000 problem . Wonder twins and wonder dog would 0.1% of the movie problems
Jeremy Irons was a great Alfred 👌
The only good thing about this version of the movie is that we see the Green Lantern using his powers to materialize weapons during the flash back, instead of just shooting green beams like he did in the Snyder Cut.
I would say it was one of the reasons, the first clue that the DCEU was doomed to fail was when Nolan and Goyer left before BVS allowing Snyder to have a blank cheque on what to do and we all know how that turned out
Nolan was on ZSJL
@@RT-bt5ql He wasnt
Studio interference is what hurt BVS
The DCEU was DOA long before Joss Wheden entered the picture.
Man of Steel was a bad movie with enough good ideas that things could be salvaged.
Batman v Superman was a tire fire that managed to surpass the Phantom Menace as the biggest letdown movie of my lifetime.
Suicide Squad was no better.
Wonder Woman was the one good movie, and a big reason why is that it distanced itself as much as possible from the turds that came before it.
Joss Wheden’s Justice League was feeding chicken soup to a dead man at that point.
I think your the first person to actually get it right everyone else trying so hard to blame black Adam and the flash but truly the downfall began with joss wedons justice league
I blame WB with this... even this going back Batman Returns to Batman Forever. It's always been WBs fault
Batman vs Superman dawn of Martha was such monstrous garbage, and yeah, rather than giving the cast their own movie they chose to rush it. The Snyder cut is better, but not by much.
I'm waiting for people to see how Smallville NAILED the same characters...so perfect. Well written, respectful yet refreshingly hopeful in a whole new way. This movie was insulting to each of the fantastically cast characters. It's such a waste of amazing potential. The whole series is. The closest they got was the first Womder Woman.
"Release the Snyder cut!!!"
>Snyder cut released
"Oh. Oh no. That's... Is there a good version?"
Often, when there's smoke, there's fire. It's not always a given, though.
Happy to see that mostly everyone in the comment section agrees that WB was entirely at fault. And not Joss Whedon's version of the Justice League. Because they're the ones who made the final decisions on everything. Including hiring Whedon to finish a movie that wasnt his.
Man… if just the original version was released 2017….
Pretty sure Snyder would have killed the DCEU quite well on his own.
I blame the studio. They should have taken the time to let Zack recover from his loss. Joss should never have been involved.imo
The DCEU was dead on arrival with Man of Steel. It was a depressing mess only to be followed by batman V superman and suicide squad. Simply said, they're all terrible films. The first Wonder Woman was decent but Gadot can't sustain that role.
You people who defend Snyder’s dc universe are like the mothers on Maury claiming how much the baby looks just like the man they claim to be the father when they clearly do not
both movies were ok at best lol. people act like synder woulda made it perfect but we forgetting batman was gonna knock up Lois lane etc lol dude was no genius either lol
You do know that just a scrapped ideas right? That never made it into the final production
cause it was suppose to happen in the movies to come after lol either way dumb idea lol @@samuelopon7037
I thought the Snyder Cut was pretty damn good. If only Snyder was was able to bring his complete vision to the screen from beginning to end without studio interference, it would have been truly an amazing film. As is, it was still a great film. And the "original" Whedon cut was abysmal. Marvel and DC are VERY different, and Whedon tried to turn a DC movie into a Marvel movie, which just ruined the feel of the movie completely. Stupid jokes that don't belong in a DC property, those damn filters on practically every shot.. UGH!
Shit writing killed the DCEU.
Facts and questionable casting on certain characters
It’s kind of crazy that a movie like Justice league was such a cluster fuck that it made Affleck quit Batman. If WB hadn’t screwed this up we would have gotten a solo Batman movie directed by Matt Reeves starring Affleck. Imagine that
Imagine in alternate timeline justice league 2 has been released and never reboot
The odd thing is the Director's Cut is lighter in tone than MOS and BVS. Not overtly like the Theatrical Cut, so as much as I actually enjoy the Theatrical Cut, I'm a little amazed it happened at all. I could understand if the studio just wanted Snyder's version to be shorter. There's a lot of padding in that one.
The reason it 4 hours is because it's unedited it would have been 2 hours at least edited
JoBlo just casually playing a video game in the background.
Apparently WB asked zack if they should delay but zack insisted they keep going
IMHO, people flipping out and making mountains out of molehills over something like the digital removal of Henry Cavill’s mustache…is truly *_NEEDLESS_* and *_RIDICULOUS._*
WB is the real villain
They should’ve delayed production until Zack Snyder was able to return to the production
Snyder finished production but didn't finish post production which would mean editing and VFX and music.
_SAVE MARTHA DID IT NOT JOSS_
Zack’s BvS digged the grave, JL 2017 covered it.
Your grammar has dug it's own grave😂
@@teethonthecurb161 an actual grammar nazi lol wild
Zack’s Justice League rose from the grave as well...
At least when the 10 yr plan happens this mess will be forgotten.
I would argue that it started dying earlier than that. But it was a HUGE nail in the coffin.
I remember my mom loving most of the Marvel movies coming out at the time. When I asked if they were going to go see the new Superman, Batman, etc movie. All she would say is, “why do they keep changing the actor?” Or “I don’t really like those new movies”
I think the last DC movies she enjoyed were The Dark Knight Trilogy. I’m pretty sure she hasn’t seen Batman V Superman, or anything after it.
But….she watched 95% of the Marvel movies, all the way through Endgame.
I will say, I had to pause your video early on so I could listen to the full Superman 1979 theme. As far as I am concerned the best of the aspirational superhero movies.
(The League arrive in Russia)
Aquaman: Call it, captain.
Batman: Alright, listen up. Until this movie ends, our priority is to not let people think they are watching an Avengers rip-off. Aquaman, be as hunkiest as you can, but don't act like a god. Cyborg, you can fly and shoot lasers, try not to act like Iron Man.
Aquaman: Give me a lift?
Cyborg: Right. Better clench up, Thor.
Batman: Diana, I don't know how long Superman will be banging Lois, so try to do everything Superman does. You got the shield. Don't use it as a frisbee. I'll do what I can with my gadgets and my sweet vehicles so no one thinks I'm Nick Fury. And Barry?
(Barry turns and glares at Bruce)
Batman: Do your best impersonation of a dimwitted child for the sake of comic relief.
(Barry grins and runs away)
Barry...try not to act like Peter Parker.
TRY IT HARD.
While the mess of Justice League more or less put the final nail in the coffin the entire Snyder-era DCEU started with one foot in the grave. Now let me be absolutely clear here: if you love the Snyder films then that's absolutely fair. We all have our own opinions and everyone enjoys different things. But, crucially, while both Snyder films did make money neither were the sorts of financial successes they should have been given the talent, characters and general culture at the time of their release. The wider audience switched off and the sentiment was clear by the time JL was in production. Continuing down the Snyder route would likely have seen similar results, albeit probably with different problems, and it's a shame that there's such a vocal chunk of the fanbase who insist the Snyderverse should come back and everything else is trash.
For that matter - and I appreciate this video is focused on the Whedon cut of JL but feel this has to be raised - can we be clear that the world has never and will never see the Snyder version of this film? What's out there now is a *four hour long* cut of a 'movie' designed for streaming services, there's no way that gets released to cinemas without at least 90 minutes cut out of it. Which does lead the casual observer to wonder just what the hell the original plan was. It couldn't have been what Snyder ended up making when he got the chance and with the amount of work and reshoots involved it's unlikely to have been mostly the Whedon version.
Eisenberg was the worst choice for Luthor and they wrote him way too goofy, as if they wanted him to be more Joker-esque.
The CGI moustache removal is the least of this production's woes.
I blame improper build-up to a lackluster ensemble piece that had no stakes.
This movie represents exactly why Hollywood is no longer revered. Way too much money is spent in the production of this crap. Actors get paid too much. Marketing cost way, way, way too much. CGI is so ridiculously difficult, it takes a literal army of artists half a year to produce 70-125 digital shots. The reliance on multiple action sequences, 3 hour scripts and terrible CGI with the eventual rewrites bloats these movies into monsters that have no chance of breaking even. Let alone make a profit. Joss Whedon basically held the studio hostage and attempted to remove Zach's fingerprints from this movie, instead of helping Zach find a complete vision.
This movie may have been the breaking point but the cracks were showing in BvS movie. That movie was a mess with shoe horned scenes. Man of Steel wasn't perfect but there was room to grow. Killing the main hero in the second film was stupid. Would people have been as invested in Iron Man if he died in his second outing, or was his death not more impactful later in the franchise? The movie was rushed and it showed. The George Miller one could have been interesting but it had a horrible cast. Speaking of, I'm also not a fan of Ezra Miller's Flash. I'm kinda not a fan of him as a person let alone a hero. The Flash movie was absolutely terrible. It had a couple of cool things but it was everything and the kitchen sink kind of film with shitty CGI. And his suit looks like shit, he looks like a dick in that thing. They got Flash more accurate in the TV show, despite the abysmal writing in the last few seasons. The suit looked better on the small screen than the big screen. That shouldn't happen. All the DCEU films did was take great characters, shit on them, set them aflame, and put the ashes out with piss. Great legacy WBs. The studio failed their properties. And why can't they hire a comic book writer for these films? They write scripts for a living. Many of them better than a lot of movies.
Batman v Superman was the start of the garbage... Martha!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's unfair to say it's his fault.
The PRODUCERS didn't wanted to wait for the horrible thing that happened to Snyder and then hired someone to just edit and release it.
That already was a decision to kill the DCEU.
Snyder's daughter commited suicide and the producers didn't had the slightest consideration for him or the movie.
Whedon didn't film any scenes or had any creative input in it.
Just a director for hire.
I agree.
Hopefully the next "Justice League" team-up movie set in Peter Safran and James Gunn's DC Universe will do better than this cut that came out in theaters did 🦸 #DCU #DCUniverse #JamesGunn #PeterSafran #DCStudios #WBD
Happy at least each Justice member got a solo outing. Except, they did Cyborg dirty.
Documentaries decades to come will be made about Warner Brothers ineptitude when it came to DC properties.
WB just shouldn't have interfered at all, let Snyder do his 6-part epic, and then just done a reboot.
I regret that I watched this in cinema. When movie ended I was like, wtf I just wached?!!
I'm one of the few who loved MOS, I even saw it at least 3 times in theaters. But yeah I agree, they fumbled the ball when they tried to play catch up with Marvel and I will always be salty about it.
Joss also killed his own career. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Zack Snyder killed the DCEU. Joss is just a convenient scapegoat. Anyone who believes that a 2 hour studio mandated Snyder Cut version of the movie would have been well received at the box office when the Snydercut barely even makes sense at 4 hours is just in denial. It would have just been BvS the sequel, which was critically panned and a box office disappointment. The end result would have just been the same regardless.
Ben Affleck was ALREADY drinking and was over being Batman before they started reshoots. Blaming Joss is so shallow. His allegations of abuse, also has nothing to do with how audiences received the film. All that drama happened well after JL was out.
Joss Whedon is the one to be held responsible. All the hated parts of Josstice League had his thumbprints from the "thirsty woman" joke to the part where Flash fell on Wonder Woman. Stop defending him just because he directed The Avengers.
@@imaadshahrukh4829 I'll take a half second awkward boob plant over a 5 minute slow motion sequence of the Flash caressing a complete stranger's face while phallic hot dogs fly in her face after she caused a car accident (lol, she was the second woman who couldn't drive too) because she was so enamored by how hot he was. This is why I can't take people who like Snydercut seriously. I'll take a thirsty line over completely negating what was supposed to be a tender moment of connection over the loss of a loved one to wink at the camera, none of that mattered, cuz MARTIAN CAMEO!
Not saying "Joss's" (because let's be honest, the studio gave him mandates, and he would have done it completely different had he started from scratch with his own script and cast) version was great, I just prefer it over the extended nonsensical drivel that was the Snydercut.
Joss's version was a semi-fun throwaway popcorn romp that was tonally odd and had some bad jokes.
Snyder's was pretentious and yet at the same time unintelligent, bloated, yet a narrative mess even though he had 4 hours, and bizarre character choices that make the villains seem incompetent and the heroes psychotic and deranged.
I think Justice League 2017 was needed to humble everyone a bit to show having more jokes and fun in a movie doesn’t necessarily make it better. If anything Justice League feels more disposable and throwaway than the then despised Batman V Superman.
What was the last DC movie to actually make a profit? That is by far the biggest reason DC is doing a reboot.
Wow, WB seems to have terrible luck when comes to hiring on super-hero flicks; sexual predators, ex-cons and complete psychopaths... =\
Lol WB asked Whedon to step in to the Synderverse established DCEU ... characters trying to alter and retell someone else's story..he would've been better off starting from scratch retelling his own story...DCEU downfall started with BvS ...with that JL Synder cut not sure how 4hrs would've made it to theaters
The Avengers happened. WB wanted that.
Why I hate gal gadot "Kal el" lol
It wasn’t just Joss Whedon who ruined Justice League, but WB completely ruined Zack Synder’s vision and all the behind the scenes drama (including Whedon’s ego-driven behavior) sealed the movie’s fate and still an unwatchable movie. I don’t blame Zack Synder, he had a difficult time filming the movie after his daughter took her own life, but WB made a big mistake signing up Joss to do the reshoots and when it came out, it felt like a different version of Justice League, but incompleted. When it came out, Josstice League was underwhelming. Poor reviews, dismal box office, everything. Releasing the film just to get slaughtered by Thor: Ragnarok was a desperation attempt by the hubris of WB’s mismanagement of DC Films and it backfired. The DCEU would’ve been dead before Aquaman made a billion dollars.
One thing marvel did right was their producers taking control from the start of phase 1 till the end of their successful endgame ,directors comes and go but ghe producers remain in power from the start,thanks to kevin feige's relationship with the Disney higher-ups, and completely excluding any comic book writer\artist from the start.
Whereas DC involved CB writers from the earlier Nolan days eventually giving them steering wheel at the end of nolan / goyer days ,the then WB execs gave geoff johns the critical control of DCEU and many many scandals of Tsujihara and demise of the Wizarding world franchise after the Alan horne era.
What killed the dceu is being inconsistent....If Zack or WB had any brains they would've went MoS, Batman, WW than JL followed by Aquaman, GL, Flash....BvS was a unnecessary movie....Shazam & Cyborg could've had their own shows on max....Than after you build up the world do a year of the villains with Black Adam, Suicide Squad & BoP....but everyone was in a rush....
I don't understand how Warner even has an audience for anything.
All their movies and TV shows are incredibly campy and cheap. From the directing to the acting and writing, it's a miracle if something good comes out of it
Their super hero movie props look like what you'd find in the Walmart toy section
Oh the mustache🥸🥸🥸
If they had just kept the existing Batman and Superman, they wouldn't have been so far behind Marvel. Who knows how much different things would have gone ...
I was fully in the RTSC movement and believed in what Zack was doing. I was a fan of Joss prior to learning what kind of person he is. This film is proof of the biggest Lesson from Feiges MCU:
STICK TO YOUR OWN PATH
I remember every online site, maybe even this one, saying how they should have done the same thing as MCU
Well, they got the guy who basically set the going template of the MCU with Joss as the avengers really set the proper Marvel formula
Look what happen? It failed.
WB could have saved so much financially and even what happened behind just by releasing the 214 version of ZSJL back in 2017. MOS, BVS, ZSJL watched all together is the full story and pay off
Whedon is bad, but Snyder is no Allah that he makes no mistakes. Get some Superman lessons.
🤦🏽♂️WB f up like always. Should’ve stuck with Snyder’s vision.
MCU should’ve been for the light and campy. DC for dark and gritty.
Both Justice League movies are considered bad by fandom anyways, especially me. Snyder's just drags on longer with a different ending, no big deal. I read about his proposed sequels and i think they'd be just as bad.😊