How to Play an Overpair ( vs 5 People!)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2020
- How to play an overpair in poker in a multiway spot.
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Edited by - Anita Lai - เกม
I loved this video. Just another amazing example of why thinking a hand through instead of looking at two over cards and thinking “damn it, he must have one of those” and folding. By far my favorite poker channel. Thank you for all the knowledge!
I absolutely love your breakdown analysis. This is like the 10th video I’ve watched and your vids are very informative and even thought provoking at times and then u take over “lemme just pause u”. Keep it up!!
This Episode and the analysis/feedback earned my subscription. Great case study!
So I just went through a very similar hand in my poker room. One of the comments you made near the end of this video Bart is that you would have raised or lead out on the flop instead of checking.
In reality I think that ends up with him being more than three-way to the turn, and much less likely to win the pot.
This is been a matter of some contention with me and other poker players who have discussed this situation.
Him checking and giving him an opportunity to check raise to thin the field seems like the best play to me.
Very interesting hand. I agreed with hero and thought villain may have picked up hearts on turn. Must call river
I keep learning from Bart. His thought process is amazing. Always improving my game.
This was a great tutorial Bart thanks so much
I play in El Paso Texas where they only have 1-2 NL but i really doubt any other game in the country plays like it. Standard raise is 20$ and you will get AT LEAST 6 people in the pot and if there’s a 3 bet at least 4 players are going to the flop. This hand break down helps me a lot so thank you !!
exactly, a lot of these kind of players in home game that we need to adapt our strategies, those other advise on other youtube video is good against players who at least understand the fundamental, but playing with lot of beginner calling station table is different, plus if a table is a mix of good players and loose passive bad players, it really limited the manuever you can pull
Sounds like a really really easy game to crush just by being extremely TAG preflop
Think of it this way: when the standard raise is that high, it makes the blinds SIGNIFICANTLY less meaningful
If there were no blinds in poker, you could wait forever for aces if you wanted to
So the bigger the preflop opens, the less the blinds are relevant, and the easier it is to be super tight preflop, basically
Those games are very profitable just by playing GTO pre-flop charts. Starting range is the most important thing on those games because most players play their hands face up.
Love this just found it...Im In!!!
I am impressed Bert
Thank you
I feel like many small Ax of spades take this line too, thats why id call. Like A8,A7,A6,A5,A4,A2 which is already a pretty decent amount of bluff combos. Especially if its a loose player, theyll probably bluff all these. Didnt really think about 54hh but thats definately one too.
thanks Bart!
WRT the raise sizes pre: what if 2 people in your game dont care about size but say 4-5 do. If a bad player limps utg are you still raising the 12x knowing that solid players will play decently to that size?
Im guessing a solver says OB shuv on turn which, the more i think about it, seems like the obv play when villain has 34s,78s,89s, 9Ts etc in his range
Excellent hand analysis. I am in agreement with Bart all the way. Only wrinkle was turn, unless he intended on bluffing him off anyway. Key takeaway here was Kx spades is checking the river and that is what he sort of representing. So, he only really has trips or exactly KQ of spades. Kx spades is unlikely, given the flop. So, what, calling against expressed trips on a 1 to 5 bets? No problem.
@Bart
Turn side+main pots= 645$
Turn remaining effective stack= 500$
What is the best move oop with JJ?
Thank you sir, i am new to poker and your analysis are of real value...
I've played in a game where it was 25 50.. and some guy who was tilting kept open raising 1000.... at this point my buddy goes "should we just get rid of the blinds. I mean what's the point" lol
I love players like that, he is just inviting you to take his money
Saw your quote about Susie Zhao. The papers are saying it was payback for gambling debt??!
Great hand breakdown. Great insight.
I wanna learn how to play 3-bet pots better short stacked 50bb or less when I miss.
Fold pre?
What about pocket 3?
The way caller describes the villian and the fact he snapped called flop and turn, especially from a fish/low stakes player screams they are on a draw. These player types if they have a strong hand will let you know fairly quickly when they are strong. Given the pot odds and the most obvious draws missed, it is an easy call on the river imo.
Excellent way of evaluating this. I agree. My initial thoughts were 7h 8h, and he was trying to push hero off the side pot to recoup his losses.
He could've gotten lucky with Jh Th or with Ks Qs, but no way he tries to move in with just a king or queen when hero has shown alot of strength the entire hand, he'd just take his chances with a check back without losing more money.
i'd guess 7h8h, the Kh improved his hand so i'd mostly rule out spade draws at that point. he could have Ks6s but that's one hand. i think players like this would 3-bet pre with KxQx (especially if both spades). nice call, nice pot; although i don't think this guy should be using the term "fish" too lightly...he sounds pretty fresh to me.
Some games with alot of Korean and Vietnamese that will call 3 bet pre flop raises with any hand I feel like JJ is better to set mine rather than get in a big pot with four players that will gladly call 60 dollar raises
.
How in the hell does Korean or Vietnamese have anything to do with it ?? Lol.
This is a clear jam on the turn and a big mistake to do anything else. Villain rarely has a K here (only Kx spades and he may even fold K 9 on flop) and if he does, you're calling off on river any way. Very straight forward hand to play with JJ the way the action went.
if you think V calls off a draw or a 9, then yeah easy jam. if you think he folds those hands then why jam...? his range is almost entirely traps or draws and sometimes a 9 like bart says. bet small on the turn and x/c on every non spade river
Manish Joshi
Turn side+main pots= 645$
Turn remaining effective stack= 500$
Is shoving the best move oop with JJ?
LMAO if you think in this game anyone playing K9 folds to anything on flop
i almost agree with hero play , and i dont hate check raising here as much compare to heads up pot , first when we check raise we deny alot of opponent draw equity , i am also agree with betting on flop , ithe main villain with deeper stack actually cap his range by calling in mutli way pot , first he not worry player behind having any kind of draw , yes hero range likely have a over pair and a small % having draw, but villain 1 range look so cap at most top pair or a draw. so betting flop and turn is 100% fine, i used to like big bet size , but i dont mind small bet size on turn too , so like what bart say if river drop a spade i am check fold , if river drop a heart i might check fold or check call the rest of the hand just look blank to me, the way villain bet like agree with bart say the only hand make sense is KQs, or what K9 or Q9, if river drop a 9 i also check fold. what does villain hand look like a marginal hand or a draw hand. the best card to bluff for villain is when spade drop , or a 9 drop
I wonder if there is any math or merit to just completing in the BB here with this many players (and play it like 22-55)? Seems really weak but if all 5 are going to call no matter what you raise, JJ migt not be a good candidate to raise given the likelihood of an overcard coming with 5 sticky opponents and being OOP.
Raising is for sure the right option, everyone is definately not going to call every time. Like bart said, make it even bigger like 50-70. Youll get tons of value if people still want to continue with hands like Q8s etc, and you push people out. Keep in mind he is over 300bbs effective with some of the players, he can make it like 20bbs and still have a lot of wiggle room post flop.
@@jaredcarrick3468 You could say that for KK,why let a few ace rags in for cheap?Shoving allin with big pairs cant be optimal,sure youll win the pot there and then but it cant be more profitable in the long run.
Maybe its a better strategy for tournies.
anyway if your anyway decent JJ shouldnt be too hard to get away from multiway when overcards hit multiway,
Mind boggling how you got only 69 k subs . Guess less the subs u have more the fishes out there 😛👍🏻
As always, very solid analysis. I'm a little surprised you don't favor an overbet or at least a sizeable one on the turn..
Usually you overbet turn IP when a brick comes,i cant see why you would overbet into a possible k-flush draw
@@Gos1234567 I guess I viewed the K more as a brick. I'd have to revisit the action but I wouldn't have check the flop and maybe that's why I viewed it more as a brick unless he's on the K flush draw.
I’m not disagreeing with the analysis but I have been in this situation with QQ-TT, iso the limpers, go five or six ways anyway and flop an overpair on a rag board...I often check because everyone knows what you have and you tend to only get action when someone setted up.
And in some spots it's right to check OOP in these bloated multiway pots. I don't like a flop check in this exact hand though. There's enough money in the pot that getting 5 people to fold their equity isn't a bad thing. Plus JJ is a overpair that benefits greatly from protection on a board like this. A/K/Q and spades are bad turn cards, plus there's a lot of straight draw combos too. There's many more bad turn cards for JJ on this board than there are good turn cards.
This is kind of the genesis of my question on sometimes (a partial for sure) just completing in the blinds with hands like 99-JJ. Depending on game dynamics, players and stacks, I am not sure that raising big (or at all) is always the right play. You do pretty much turn your hand face up in this spot unless you are balancing these raises with other hands as well (which would seem to be a pretty big leak). I don't know...we all agree it is always tough to play overpairs OOP on ragged flops with more than 2 opponents. I am just trying to see if there is another way to occasionally play them that is +EV that won't always put your stack at risk like in this hand.
Good play. I hate getting blown off a big pot by a bluff...and the short stack wins the main pot with a weaker hand. 😑
Caller calling people fish when himself plays like an absolute fish.. 😂 very interesting hand analysis nonetheless. Max value for hero 🕺🏼
i would of jam to get rid of aor q river, ther other flush or straigh his calling.
Shouldn’t the hero just lead out the river considering he isn’t folding to the $250 river shove?
Bart, you said you can get eaten alive by good players when you xr a field bettor as the PFR with what looks like an obv OP. And you’ve done that too a few times. Are you saying good players can FLOAT/BLUFF a lot in that spot? I think they’d play pretty ABC in that spot since it’s a protected pot where a continue from them would mean a good hand or draw in this spot. So how exactly are they “punishing” you?
what he mean is main villain can reraise after hero check raise and put hero stack all in if hero not willing to get his stack in , in thiis flop. or even when spade drop villain can always jam. hero range is quite transparent ,
MP1 put in $35 and would lose another $65 to the BTN but could still win the $120 c/r from the BB and might even take it away on the turn/river once more money has gone in, if they are deep enough
ChinGuan31 I know that. I’m saying he’s not shoving over our xr as a complete bluff ever since pot is protected, so we get the info we want and it becomes an easy fold. He’s not “punishing” us.
Ben Lloyd true that’s what happened here.
Villian can jam representing a set all of which are in his range. If he thinks the hero has a fold button he makes 20 and gets a free roll for the main. The only hand in hero's range he is really screwed against is pocket 9s. Hero probably folds over pairs and two big spades but even if he calls villian isnt in horrible shape with an open end straight draw.
Snap call. If he shows j10 or KQ of spades then so be it. Great check call spot on river
I'm calling this guy raise with 66,33,99 96,36 100% of the time oh and 78,710 suited, And over card/x spade draw etc. etc. . JJ is good on that flop maybe 36% of the time ..do the damn math. I've grinded 1-3 for years. That spot is SUPER DICEY! Comes down to stack sizes.
The bottom line, that's a super tough spot with JJ, QQ,Kk or AA especially when that deep. Not worth risking your stack given the way the hand went. 6 players called = you need luck too win.
PS: I've been in that spot 100x with JJ. Deep stack, multi way, super OOP IN BB,......Your only play is bet 1/2 flop and see what happens. And very player and stack size dependent.
$1/3 game, 5 limp, all call $35 raise... this throws the sane math you've grinded out the window. The loose fish who call might have QQ or 36 sure, but just as likely to have 88, 77, 55, T9, 98, 76, 65, or why not A2, A3, 43, 5T, whatever. Agree it's dicey, but Bart's point on this flop makes sense, make JJ look quite strong.
how to overplay multipairs or call with 48o for 30% of your stack because clip joints rule, thank god i keep it down to $1 sitngos ... keep it rec.
"i was playing in texas ...and there were a lot of limpy stations...never seen anything like that..."
See the first sentence to better understand the third lol
there's a reason it's not called iowa holdem
nodiffereancc in jamming on turn, it protecs againt draws
Sounds very inelastic, so the raises pre need to be much bigger.
How to play jacks against 5 people…. Either get incredibly lucky on a low flop that nobody connected with or fold when the high cards come out and there’s action
He got lucky he should have jam after the flop.
I thought of 4 5. Should just All In the turn
Why not bet 125% of pot on flop?
ez jam on turn gg
Instant jam on the turn! Way to much out there! Just my style of playing!
Jesus I gotta move to Texas
The villain should have shoved at the turn, the hero would have gone weak in the knees.
If the opponent is a loose player, just jam and he will call his draws. Such players don't fold simply because their pot odds are insufficient.
I would have bet smaller pre-flop, on that flop bet the pot with a weak overpair, checked the turn, then half pot on the river if it was checked back. He won the most, but had no evidence he had the best hand at any point. The villain would have to be pretty bad not to fold 45o to the initial bet. With the draws available after the flop, checking the flop seems like a mistake, allowing the villain to see a free card and giving the impression the hero had missed the flop gave the villain incentive to bluff, but hero ended up pot committed and could easily have just been losing to AK spades or AQ spades, 99 or 66, but no bets were made to elicit that information.
the USA poker standard is so high that they find it weird having a table with full of limpers
thasts why you jamon turn, or check and lay down
I always wondered what turned a 3 dollar hand into a 35 dollar hand. If it was worth 35 dollars to begin with, why didn't you just raise to begin with LOL
The Way You Play JJ (5 way) Is To Try And Flop A Set - If You Miss, You Should Fold.
There’s no absolutes in poker.
@Cousin Jimmy Farha Not sure this is true. To be a consistent winning player, you have to fold the best hand some of the time or you will end up being way unbalanced to calling large bets without proper values. Good players will realize this tendency in your play and will take serious advantage IMO.
Odds in Hitting a PP are 1 in 12 (8 1/2 %) you practice that religiously and I own ya
The river illustrate how much "what the..." factor enters into the lower stakes. The opponents should not be bluffing there due to the main pot: He can only beat one possible hand (and that hand is unlikely to even be playing).
It’s spots like this I wish I had more of at my home casino. In that spot with JJ, a player would call with suited K9, flop top pair with a backdoor flush draw. Then drill the turn and I would have to fold the turn.
As played, JJ, at my home casino, would very rarely make it to the river and be good starting the hand preflop with 6 callers. I’ve seen players continue with double gutters and hit straights on the river. He was lucky that his table didn’t want to gamble. I’m fairly confident a K was folded on the flop of the hand. Probably nothing super strong either. K5 suited or KT suited.
twips
What a tricky hand. I would try to avoid getting to where you did on riv. Wouldnt want to ship it on turn but vs a loose villain who plays draws and maybe a 9 like this I think I would view a turn shuv as the least bad option. BTW 678 is prolly worst flop not 789 as 789 is obv a gutter
I put him on 10 9 of hearts.
On the flop, jacks are already an underdog to 7-8 spades.
@Cousin Jimmy Farha The problem is that pot limit and no limit poker at anything other than very high stakes is a no-brainer, and even then I've watched people play like lunatics on the high tables at PokerStars.
Hansen has a video in which he raised pre-flop with jacks, and a retard called him with 8-2 suited. He flopped two deuces, and Bart did his money. That happens all the time. The only games I would play are stud hi-lo, razz, and maybe a bit of stud. Omaha hi-lo fixed limit can be passable.
There used to be a pot limit razz tournament on the old Ladbrokes site. I did very well in that, small tournaments and good fun, but that's long gone. Now I just like to watch and laugh.
Cousin Jimmy Farha right? I don’t see what the point of this comment is. You can always come up with hands to worry about unless you flop the nuts. I’d be more concerned about 33 or 66. Although still not that concerned. Serious MUBS to be worried about this flop.
You shouldn’t play if your worried about one hand on the flop.
100% agree
@@SydBaron "these games are no brainers but I can't beat them so I play antiquated boring games" booooooomerrrrrrssssss
Getting upset by being results oriented based on 1 extreme example hand such as this, is not smart thinking. It's money making time.
meanwhile i get felted
I don’t get it he checks the flop because he’s scared but than check raise? Wtf
Yea it seems strange to me,you are repping 999 there,so turning a marginal made hand into a better one when multiway cant be right
Why isn't he repping TT - JJ and 666 and 333 and A9h etc?
20:36 on rhe long run, this is a losing play.
I wouldn't have made the call. even if I'd been rich enough and dumb enough to play.
Yeah that’s a tough spot honestly. But he’s so polarized, and you’re getting a decent enough price, I think calling is probably the most +ev decision here. He has enough bluffs in his range and missed draws to make the call profitable over the long run.
It’s an easy call. Tons of draws and no way he has a set.
You don’t!
All the spades miss and all 78s miss... insta call given pot odds
Horrible call on the river. I will argue with anybody there is no such thing as pot ads
🐟
You fold 1000 pot for 1 dollar? 🐟 🐟 🐟
I agree there is no such thing as pot ads.
There is such a thing as pot odds though. Whether you think pot odds are useful or relevant is up to you, but they certainly exist as a concept since they’re just maths.
Pot ads? Who said anything about pot ads lol
Young Harvey Weinstein, gold content as always! 😊
who's the fish...look in the mirror for answer...lol
Guy calls people fish yet he plays so bad lol... his lucky guy when all in lol.
These breakdowns confuse me SO much! In my casino villain would all in EVERYTHING once you check there. Pot was well over 1000 so Kx and Qx will always shove here hoping they're good and if not hoping KT and QJ (and JJ) would fold.
In my casino due to covid were now playing 5 handed 2/5 and people call raises with 25os and when flop is AK5 they check call 3/4 pot size bets. Im sure everyone thinks that's great, but I've lost 3k in last 3 days to ppl hitting the turn in these spots 90% of the time. Bart and everyone online live in a different world than I do - basically the so called logical true maths doesn't apply. It has been over 10 years now where I've lost to ridiculous 3 and 2 outers day in and day out. Feel free to flame away but I would literally bet my life that its Reality not perception that I've run below ev at the greatest % than anyone ever 😷
New copypasta
Hero does not bet $35... he raises to $35. Wtf Bart.
WHAT HAPPENED TO YHE SMALL HAND SMALL POT, BIG HAND BIG POT PRACTICE
IT SEEMS UR TAKING A BIG CHANCE WITH DEEP STACKS PLAYING THIS WAY
shut up nitball
All caps and retarded strategy from 900 years ago. 100% you voted trump
Who wouldn't call when it's 250 to win 1400 lololol come on man
yea even if V is betting all the K hi flushes draws(doubtful) has all the sets (doubtful)K9/K6(maybe) JTs(possible) and just bluffs of 78/45 heart/spades then we are 15%.