WEIRD River Predicament In A Limped Pot
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ธ.ค. 2020
- Andrew calls in a very difficult hand dealing with a complex, multiway limped pot.
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Edited by - Anita Lai - เกม
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Anybody find a jam here on the turn to drive a possible higher flush draw out of the hand from the caller’s left?
Yes, if it's same scenario with the nut flush draw and top two you let the other guy draw.
This scenario is a shove in my eyes to deny a potentially better flush draw and absorb the other draws equity.
@@joewsef agreed
absolutely... A--2,3,5,7 of hrts is very possible.. he cant call a jam on JUST a draw, with only the rvr left to come ( unless they are an idiot.. seems like he had two of them.. where IS this place again ??? lol ).. i really thought the guy had KX of hrts or Ax of hrts, to call call for $300 2x.. and Q4..... o m g....... i dont think i played that badly since playing for nickels in homeroom in 7th grade..
@@RodgerRamjet the only other hands he might have are some combo draws like 87hh or maybe 89hh and if they are completely crazy they might have 75 or 53 hh so i would jam to make those hands commit.
Tricky with 600 max raise
We all fall victim to giving our opponents way too much credit.
I feel like I say this very thing in most videos.
Better to give them too much credit than none at all.
@@AT-qm8gv
And miss a visit to value town?
This is one of your best videos
No, its not. The ONLY way to play this hand, is to RE-RAISE ALL IN, WHEN THE JACK COMES
@@garygwinn4256 not necessarily, jamming on the turn after the CO raises is probably what I would do but it’s not the only plus-EV play. There’s a possibility that when the hero jams that both players fold and the hand ends there, not the worst thing. But by some miracle the hero gets an extra $600 from the hand so maybe it ended up being the right call on the turn to call? Who knows
I think I might just go with it and lead or move all in. Here is why. The wider that ranges get, the more absolute hand strength matters. This is a limped pot at 3/5. That means the ranges are very wide. Hero has the third nuts. I think that is good enough. Most of the A-x of hearts would raise preflop. K-x of hearts beats you but he can’t have the KQ or KJ or K10. AK of hearts limped can be ruled out. you beat the sets. You beat all the smaller flushes. You beat a bunch of two pair - more than usual since in a limped pot you can see stuff like Q6 out there. There are sets and multi-way draws like 8h7h that can raise earlier but that you beat at the end.
Bart I don't agree with your assessment pre-river that you're probably behind. When you end the video with "he did xyz? That's terrible!" it looks like you expect all the villains to be serious players who study solvers every weekend. But based on villain descriptions, and the betting patterns, their ranges look like exactly what they had: random queens, random 2pairs, smaller flush draws, straight draws.
You're result oriented, there are more combos of Ahxh and Khxh in HJ range, especially when the Th hits the river
@@Azar1571 Not with the pre-flop limping action there aren't. Do you play a lot of loose-passive 1/2 to 3/5 lineups? If you do, you'd know that a _lot_ of small-to-mid pairs and suited connectors show up in the HJ and CO's holdings. By the time the turn action is complete, the HJ's hand is so well-defined that it's scary. The cutoff, OTOH, is a crazy person, and I wish to God that I could play with him every frickin' day... until he went broke.
@@alistairwillock7266 it depends if HJ openlimps hands like 93s and if he open raises or not Axs
@@Azar1571 GTFOH , everyone is results oriented for you guys , but when u get 5-B jammed pre from SB who holds 1010, u snap fold JJ as u are not results oriented. Shut up dude
@@shadowsmessage WTF are you talking about ?
I went from “oh he should have shoved the turn...” to “wow he played this perfectly!” And I’m not entirely sure if either of those thoughts are right or wrong. Maybe both are right and wrong at the same time, but when viewing by a results approach I love everything about how he played the hand. I think I would still feel the same if someone turned up a King High flush as well. This hand was fun.
The river bet is kinda awkward, betting 300 into 1000 with 300 behind. But shoving only gets called by better flushes, and checking is a sign of weakness, if someone shoves they're bluffing or they have a better flush, basically turning our hand into only a bluff catcher. So as awkward as the river bet is it might be best actually. I still prefer just shoving the turn. Even though the way he played he extracted max value, I still feel like as fishy as his opponents seem 2 pair and flush draw might still come along.
@@edwardmauer7442 what sizing would be better on the River? Between 200-250? It is a weird River bet no doubt.
Everything about this hand is weird. The Hero led on every street. I think the Turn lead is the weirdest and probably the worst.
The Hero should have checked the Turn (imo still), primarily because the Turn is a seemingly blank card. No draws come in, it really only helps a hand like QJ. The BU has shown a ton of strength, so he most likely will bet since the board texture hasn't changed much.
Our hand uniquely blocks the main draw and gives us additional equity vs sets. So we don't need to protect against free cards compared to other holdings that don't have a heart.
Given that we think the HJ has a better flush draw. A check raise on the Turn would accomplish our goal of getting him out of the hand without also overplaying ours. Which was the problem with the lead by Hero on the turn. Additionally, we are OOP, so a check raise would give us the betting control on the River and help to balance our check range.
The River lead is something I would never do, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. Mainly because we think the HJ is on a draw and we can't be certain he will lead into the BU (who almost surely would check behind). Which means the River gets checked through more than we like. If we suspected the BU was on the draw, a check would be ideal because we can be certain of a bet. To which we could raise, or just call.
Was uppp Bart you the f-ing man, thanks for all the entertainment and great info has helped my game so much. Just play for fun but stomp fools in lower stakes lol thanks!
This hand is actually a great example of the change in dynamic HU vs 3 handed. HU on the flop you’re allowed to be more aggro because you should always have decent equity (IE if villain has a better Q you have a flush draw for equity, if he has a flush draw you have the Q etc) But once it’s 3 way it becomes a way more difficult situation to solve, as you could be dead even with all your perceived equity (being against KQ and a better flush draw)
Q4 overcalls, wowowow haha. Beautiful
He's thinking that he only has to be right 1 in 7.5 times.
@@arcadion448 as played how is he ever good 1 in 7.5 lmao? He raises the flop bet, raises the turn bet from hero as well AND HERO STILL LEADS OUT ON RIVER lmao. Not only should that alone be enough, but you get a call in between lmao. He isnt good 1 in 750 times there as played lmao
@@williamzagarella8066, learn math. That's how much is in the pot and the amount of money he has.
Really liked watching this video bud 👍
Lol Barts giant mug, are there 2litres coffee inside? 😂
I always try to think what I'd do right before it's explained. It's funny that I was thinking for 2 minutes what to do on the river and I came to same conclusion - to lead small. Because the only way I get called with worse is if the bet is small. I also wanted to lead on turn.
The thumbnails with the cards are really good. Keep that up
I have lived and played poker most of my life in the casinos and illegal rooms around town. There are a bunch of really bad poker players in the Valley. Just watched this today and subscribed. I may send you a few crazy hands I have played.
How this guy gets paid off by anyone on the river is a miracle....and then another person calls too. What the hell is going on at Talking Stick?
Welcome to bad rec 3/5 lineups - which I suspect the spread-limit format encourages by limiting losses... In short, I'd love to have that as my home casino. A 2k-deep 3/5 spread-limit structure that incentivizes lots of bad calls? Sign me up.
I play there. They all suck there. There's only a handful a good 3/5 players the rest are just bad who think they're good
My initial though on the turn was to check-call for pot control in a 3 handed pot with one of those acting as if they have a big draw and the other acting as if they already have it. I was putting HJ on Ah2h-Ah8h, low suited connectors. CO could have 66, 44. If I'm right about HJ, that means less outs to make the flush, and even if we do it might be 2nd best. I don't like mid sized leads here. I feel it's either check-call or jam. Many comments here favored jam. Is there a good reason to strongly consider jam over check-call here?
This is always just a jam ott. Protects our equity vs higher draws/combo draws and single pair hands. If we’re facing 66 or 44 from CO than it’s just a cooler and we still have 13 outs. A min raise in a 3 way pot ott is not often a set.
Great hand for discussion
I'm shoving the turn. Top 2 with flush and boat potential. What is his equity after he turn?
This has got to be one of the most interesting hands I've ever come across!
How in the world does the CO call on the river with 2-pair after the bet and call (and after the action on preceding streets)?? Does he not know what a set, a straight and a flush are?
And all the better two pairs!! There are so many better hands than Q4 by that turn and river, I've lost count.
Apparently you guys have never played at Talking Stick. Trust me when I say this, that over call with Q-4 is par for the course with the player pool there. I play at talking stick a lot, and I think this guy played his hand fine, but I would have lead turn (like the caller did) and once raised, I would have jammed to force out the other flush draw in the middle (since this will be the Ace High or King high draw ALOT of the time). And I would expect to get called by all the garbage 2 pairs and maybe even get called by KQ or a random unraised AQ in that game, and only be losing to 4-4 and 6-6 , but will still have outs to beat those two holdings on the river. Never ever underestimate the players at talking stick to make horrendously bad calls. getting the money in on the turn here is always better, at least at talking stick.
I think the high hack calling the turn says he’s gotta have a flush draw and some sort of straight draw as well. There aren’t any Ax or Kx ♥️. Which leads to the queen high flush being good majority of the time. 7-8 5-7 3-5 of ♥️ seem more likely for the high jack. Great video!!!
this might even be the most optimal play against those specific opponents. without raising pre-flop he kept them in for maximum implied odds value
nice blocking/info bet there on the river..only probably getting raised by the nut flush.
The question is does CO get you to fold QJ with a river shove on a 2d?
with the Th river it's tough to see better flushes from HJ (he is going to fold on the turn his A high fd like Ah5h) so he only has flushdraws like : Th9h, Kh9h, AhTh, 5h7h (it was HJ's hand i guess there isn't much more with 5h3h in worst fd). The river is so good in my opinion even though he is gonna iso AhTh at a really high frequency (approximately 100%), he could still have Th9h we have the best hand quite a lot and when we see that CO over calls Q4 that said a lot. HJ played the hand really poorly as well (must have 5h7h or 5h3h for a smaller flush than can call a big sizing turn with open handed)
I'm stopping at the 7:57 mark to say that the CO's most likely value holdings are 66, 44 and 64. I'm making this comment here because I'm _really_ surprised that neither Bart nor the caller have called-out bottom and middle set as likely value holdings for the CO yet. We'll see whether I was right or not.
As for semi-bluffs, various 75s and 75o, plus 53s/53o holdings.
Aaaaand Q4 off was the holding. God bless live poker :-D
I agree, I was also putting him on those three value hands, and putting the HJ on a lower flush draw (likely an 8 high or 7 high combo draw, especially after the 10 of hearts comes on the river). I don't think the CO is bluffing with that tiny raise on the turn. After the turn is the Jack, and he raises so small, I'd really just put him on 66 or 44.
But after the CO overcalls the river with Q4, I realize that no matter how bad at poker I think he is, I'm still overestimating his ability.
Talking Stick does spread a 5-10, which is 10-600 spread limit. I believe that is a 5k buy in
Top 2 pair in a limp pot where all other 2 pair combos are represented? You want to play a big pot here. Also recs love to limp aces and kings so he can have that too. There's way more combos of hands you beat than of 44 and 66, any kind of raising is EV+. Only question is how to get it in. IMO best way is a small reraise on the turn to keep HJ in the pot.
Haven't gotten past turn yet, but I would just jam it in and say screw it. Never be surprised to see Q6 and Q4 and 64 from CO. and HJ could even have AQ or 78 hearts, so yea worst case you are against set and nut flush draw. But best case you have them drawing near dead.
CO/HJ Line could easily be KThh (sure the Th hits the river so this is not a valid option at the end anymore) or 75hh. These hands are so strong to play them like this.
I think there is some merit to limping hands like QhJh on occasion to keep lesser hands in and give them a false sense of strength. Especially if you are capable of folding QJ on a Q974 type board. Lose the small ones, win the bigger ones.
I Am new to poker. thought it is a snap call
My prediction was 64 for CO, lower flush draw for HJ. Almost got it. Yeah it's possible he has a higher flush but not only are there so many lower flushes that we beat, but HJ is raising a good amount of suited aces and suited kings preflop
Checking river doesn’t seem like the best play. A low flush might check back whereas no one who’s chased a flush after having called a turn raise will fold to a reasonable bet size after having made their hand in my opinion.
I’m jamming turn alwayyyyys
OK, now I'm stopping at 16:05 to state that I would get it in on _this_ particular flush card (10h), but _not_ on any 7h, 8h, 3h or 2h. On any of those flush-completing cards, you are beat by not only the nut flush and king-high flush, but also by the kind of flush draws that absolutely have the equity to continue the way that both the HJ and cutoff have: the straight-flush draws.
At these stakes, and with this specific pre-flop action, I would:
- check-fold to a $600 max bet from _either_ the HJ (especially him!) or cutoff on 7h/8h/3h/2h
- call off any max bet on any other heart Jh or below
- and lead out for the max bet if Ah or Kh came.
Addtionally, I'm check-folding to a cutoff bet, on any board-pairing card that isn't a queen or a jack.
Now, let's see what happened, and how ridiculously bad my reads turned out to be :-D
Well, I'd have been right to check-fold if the 4 hit... and terribly, _horribly_ wrong if the 6 hit :-D
Shut up looser... call all day. You should have a 40.000 bankroll for this game any way. Make life easy. The least 30.000 the very very least $25.000 or move down to 1/2
@@virtuoso1064 First, it's spelled "loser". Second, you just triggered my asshole detector - good job. Third, if Bart can envisage a bunch of scenarios in which your Q-high flush is no good, and you should fold, then I suggest you open your mind to that possibility.
i miss live poker
I haven’t seen the result yet but SB with the overcall just HAS to be the nut flush draw
Just a flush draw
i would have check/raised turn, possibly folding if shoved on.
Check raise folding this hand is an absolute disaster
@@Brandon-hg7ic but most of the time you wouldn't have to fold....how long have you been playing poker anyways? 3 weeks?
Don't discount the possibility of "partnership players" . They fold and never lose if they in the alley later split the monies. The hard part is making it look like they are really playing against each other.
Ok worm
Ship it !
House, kids, car
Anybody ever E-mail that,to Bart figuring out if its more EV for Hero to jam here to isolate and get higher flush to fold out? As played we could or SHOULD be up against a set, and the nut flush or K high flush draw and any other draw he calls with really shouldnt be naked, it should be semi combo. K9hearts K8 K7 plausible. But the thing is he can also have 89h 78h 57h 58h 35h 23h 25h and those are hands we want in. Its a limped pot so all heart draws possible.
This is a weird hand. I think I'm just open jamming the turn.
I put the HJ on A5 hearts or A7 Hearts
I would have got it in on the turn for a 3 way all in...... I knew what the others had based on the play. This hand isn’t strange I see it all the time. The strange part is hero over thinking it....and that’s because he couldn’t figure out what the other two had. To me it was obvious and a very easy hand to exploit the other players knowing I had the nuts here.
Hero. I'd prolly get the over call if I check the river.... I really hope so since yur gonna be the over caller in this spot....lol. and ppl say there's no money in poker ne more
cutoff has to have set to me
I kind of like the river lead. If HJ is a rec player and you check to him, he’s jamming his flushes at least some of the time and putting you in a weird spot
Okay but WTF was BTN doing in this hand?? How do you call river with top and bottom when literally every draw possible gets there 🤦🏻♂️
And people say poker is dead. Lol.
On the river if they call in that spot you're ahead 100% of the time... no way are you ever behind in this spot.. Ahxh raises... Kh9h/Kh8h raises..
Bart always thinks the 3rd nuts is smashed, but of course needs to call, of course. I'd have bet 100 on the river hoping for semi-bluff jam - call - call to maximize. ...but then the 3rd nuts would have been smashed, of course.
This hand is easy. Jam on the turn. Get all the flush draws out and go against the set with your many draws.
Yea I love putting it in with 25% equity with 1 card to come 😂😂
It's only 25% equity against 66, 44
You have to take the equity you would have against villians entire calling range, in this case as bad as q4 is calling.
I'm shipping top 2 + flush draw too, trying to squeeze out draws that may be better than mine, punishing any other 2pr holdings, and having redraws in case I am incorrect. It would be different if it wasnt top 2pr, but in this exact scenario I ship it and call it a cooler if I run into trips vs nut flush draw
Feel like the turn raise also weighted villain towards 2pr in a limped pot as well. Many live players try to raise and take it with a shitty 2 or before they get counterfeited
Watch this video whenever someone says “Poker is dead”
The guy called with Q4 got 9 to 1 odds almost to call that why he called I think but never good
lol @ "hit the like button down below"
I love the analysis but it is funny how in so many of these hands the correct analysis says he must have a set, it must be the nut flush and the guys show 2 pair or worse. Playing good, technically sound poker at these levels doesn't seem to apply
Confusingly weak plays by both the other players. But yes, a call and call on the river is almost 90% or more of the time your pot. This goes to show that you shouldn't assume your opponents know how you play. So easy to make that projection and get lost where they are.
The turn play makes sense by both, it was the river that was confusing. How did the 2 pair hand not know he was no good? That one really didn't make any sense.
I thought he was good when he said the guy tanked on the turn. The pot odds were so high that a higher flush would have a snap call.
I don't see what the confusion is here
HJ could be sitting with K 10 hearts. Only thing that would make sense to me that he's not going away.
Yea you're thinking that until the 10h comes on river then you're thinking K9h 57h 78h maybe 35h. Nobody has the nut flush draw, period.
bet fold river is fine. never getting raised by worse live. you set the price and don't end up calling off $600.
The guy who mucked his lower flush probably had 53s or 75s. He had 8 outs the whole time so calling on the flop and turn was not that bad. Calling that $300 river donk lead was not a good move especially with a guy behind you left to act.
The other guy in the hand had to be a beginner poker player, Only a beginner would limp 80% of his hands and then go ape shit over top/bottom pair and then be that extreme of a call station on the river. Yeah he had to be a noob.
Wtf is the point of buying on for 2k when the max bet is 600 lol
Bro of course it’s weird
It’s limped
Why the fuck are we in a limped pot though?
basicly perfectly played imo
Haven't seen the river yet, but donking the turn is really stupid, sry.
Q4...live poker is not dead
Amen
What is with everybody playing super tight?? how do you fold queen jack here... If you're playing on scared money, don't play at all....
You have to call. Who the fuck folds a Q-high flush. If you lose, you lose. You are over thinking it.
Any wrestling fans this guys voice is a dead ringer fro Sean Waltman (AKA XPAC, AKA 123 KID)
ANYONE WITH A PAIR IS JUST JAMMING THE TURN HERE
I don't know about Texas, Abbot's order kicks in when there are 7 straight days above a certain percentage of covid hospitalization, we're getting close to that.
such a wierd play from both hj and btn on all streets, accept maybe the flop
I’m gonna comment before the end of the video and say this is a CLEAR CALL. it’s most likely some idiot trying to bluff who has no clue what he’s doing. If this was any type of GOOD player I might consider a fold. Cuz with two people in the hand obviously he would KNOW show likely it is that someone must have had a flush draw. So wtf is he representing.
Really?
your wife is wrong Bart, Texas is not and will not shut down.
I can't tell for sure, but almost sounds like he wants shutdowns.
WTF?
I am trying to study poker more in depth, does anyone here have suggestion for apps (either pay or free) that they find useful?
You’re watching it!
i cant think of the names,, but, Jonathan Little has several, some free, some pay.. upswing poker has some, some free and pay.. might check them out.
@@roymartin3358 haha I should have been more specific. I meant like tracking apps. I have learned a lot from Bart
@@RodgerRamjet thanks man I will check it out
Might wanna think about fixing that ridiculous double chin in the thumbnail there buddy
Wow the guy in last position is really bad
I fell asleep during this