@@1warlock97 while what you said holds pretty true imo, I think online still has many bad players as well, you just need to have to play at the right sites and right type of stakes. But yea there are more bots and crap like that to worry about, the players themseleves aren't honestly that better overall... or rather I feel like I have gotten even better myself as well so that is almost moot (I was also winning player 10+ years ago) In short yea, poker is still very beatable as of today.
@@Havefunatwork lol :D. 4k literally lit on fire in front of our eyes haha. Honestly this might be the worst hand I have ever seen played by a caller on Bart's show. He lost 4k in a pot where he should of lost like 20 bucks or whatever the straddle was. As Tony G would say "This is not something for someone to learn from"!
@@Haanski - I agree that online is beatable, just not for the same ungodly number of BB/100 that live is and certainly not at the same stakes. I've been playing deep-stacked 10/20 live for a long time (too long). A guy can make a pretty penny in these games being modestly competent. 200-500NL online are far harder games, with and without bots. I'm not at the point where I can make up in volume online what I can make live on an hourly basis. More convenient though and great for practice.
If the caller is 3 year 5/10/20 reg and stations off 66 on an ace high multiway flop and the "very good, competent player" plays 42o in the small, then I'm fucking Linus Loeliger. MVP of the hand is Bart for being really, lets say, "nice" to the guy.
You have to gamble with poverty stricken hands like 4 2 once in a while that way you don't always show up with AK . I crack AA KK with poverty hands hit big or fold
@@certifiedvirologist9918 be on the lookout for Russians, former Soviet Russian republics (XX-istan/slovakia/..., and the rest of Eastern Europeans as well...all madmen!
"This is where I felt like I was gonna figure out where I was in the hand immediately." Bart: *sigh* Well you don't--I mean--I uhh--how long have you been playing cash for? Just out of curiosity." Is the most savage unintentional roast I have ever heard in my life. I don't wanna be mean to the guy but I cringed so hard when he said that And yet this guy is playing larger stakes than I've ever been comfortable with lol
@@Funktaro5 Dude there is no fucking way this dude is playing $5/$10/$20. No fucking way. I also live in the midwest and in the last 6 months made the jump from $2/$5 to $5/$10 and the $2/$5 games were no where near this soft. I can't remember the last time I've seen a multiway limp, much less with a straddle. Also this dude doesn't know what a 3 bet is, doesn't know what position is. He thinks players who limp in with the 2 4 from the SB are great. This dude is lost.
The way he talked about the game, it sounds like it's a 1-2 game. He said things that that a good player never says - raise to see where I am at. He's 3 betting turn to 560. He doesn't know what a 3 bet is, and he is playing 5-10-20? Alrighty then........
the reason isn't only because of 2 outer, but the board A 3 5, with limp pot and 2 people calling and a rainbow board, one of them might have a straight draw, even a gut shot like A4, 47, or even 42 is also possible, so the 6 on the turn might be your disaster card however if the flop is A 3 8 rainbow, then this is a different story, the pot was 4 way, a 6 on the turn is your money card
A smart guy who really thinks about the possible ranges etc. This hand really demonstrates how important fundamentals are. Even if a game is playing 'big' for you, limping pre leaves you in these kinds of spots.
karlinchina So I’m listening to the call now and I just heard him say the small blind bet out a nearly pot sized bet in to 3 other players and then he should just fold and end of the call. I mean there’s no way he called that bet right?
Secondary game theory: If you're going to call with a pocket pair on A35r to try to turn a set (which to begin with, set mining the turn is typically really bad, especially when your call does not close the action on the flop) 66 is literally the WORST pair to do it with. The reason? The only two serious draws on A35r are 64, which you double block, which means the other one, the 74 double gutter, is the most likely, which gets there if you somehow gin your set. If you feel the need to set your money on fire by set mining turns, at least do it with a pair that does not change the texture of the board when you hit it (like 88-JJ in this hand). Admittedly, I set mine the turn sometimes myself. Drilling the ol' 4.5%er on someone can be really profitable... But (and it's a big but) it basically requires ~5 ideal things to justifiably attempt to do: 1) My set card doesn't change the board texture or complete obvious draws, 2) the price is reasonable 3) the bettor seems pretty strong already or it's multiway, 4) the effective stacks are large so you can maximize profit when you get there, and 5) my call closes the action on the flop so I'm at least assured of seeing the turn.
Stacks have to be REALLY large to profit set mining the turn. Your paying the bet 20 times before you hit so you effectively need absolutely ridiculous pot odds on the flop or 20x a reasonable bet you called just to maybe make a profit. (Sometimes you lose, sometimes you dont get paid off etc.) Set mining the turn is 99.9% always bad. Calling with middle pair is not if you suspect your pocket 8s to be good some of the time at showdown.
@@Niko-et4yz There are a few incorrect things in your comment there friendo. Not the least of which is straight up fucking Math. You last sentence is a straight up dumpster fire of bad information, if you can correct these few egregious errors, ultimately changing the very point of your post, then sure you might be able to make some sense in the future. As it stands right now, it seems your school system has failed you in multiple ways. But thanks for the entertaining try.
When he said “Now I have a weird spot” on flop, my jaw dropped 😂 sometimes I listen to these to remind myself of the level of some players and why I shouldn’t try to hard to figure out what they are thinking 😂
Well that was a Trainwreck... "The SB is a good player so I think he bets to get rid of other hands." That is some coherent reasoning to OVERcall with less than top pair. A beginner playing 5-10, the regs are licking their chops. Apparently live poker is very much alive at 5-10/20 level in Chicago...
That is just a reason for opening hands with a reasonable raise or fold them preflop. Getting hands in there like 2-4o from "very competent" players is just a debacle when hitting any value and having to fold to "never a bluff" raises on the river. This hand is a trashcan on fire.
This very competent player totally almost lost a ton of value by not 3 betting turn also. I'm just putting EP on a set, and making him pay big time to draw to full house, and setting up a river shove.
The caller played it even worse. Fold flop... also if for some reason I got to the river like that I may either check behind or bet fold, no way I am putting the rest of my stack in against the sb though. punt city
The mistake was before the flop. Just raise pre or fold. Really helps define ranges and allows you to win the pot on favorable boards. Limping is praying you cooler someone.
I think hero's read on village is still right. Villain believe either of these guy is a fish and he can stack em. Look at the how villain just called on turn to hero's raise. Villain correctly deducted that hero is capped with a set but straddle can have a better straight since he completed PF action. Once straddle folds, villain knew he had the best hand almost always and extracted the max.
I guess I could see the limp if a lot of players are playing around 100bb, which is 50bb effective with the limp. Kind of sucks when you open small pairs and a player with 1000 in front of them 3bets to 200.
yea i agree with that. I can totally get on board with the limp preflop for that exact reason. You just got to be ready to fold when a flop like that comes out
Two mistakes... not open raising a straddle in HJ, and continuing with the hand with basically 2nd pair against what you perceive as a competent player who is WAY out of position. No reason to call the flop... When you limped in, that relegated you to set mining. You didn't hit the set, you didn't flop a draw... you're done with the hand.
"figure out where I am in the hand" famous last words of many a bad poker player's chips. Even if you spike your 6 here one of main hands that crushes you gets there which is certainly in play in a multi way limped pot. More alarming is just the way he talks about the game and verbiage that he uses. He sounds like the nice old lady I see at the 75 dollar bingo hall tourneys on Wednesday night.
Personally, if I ever call the flop like that with 66 (and the only argument for it I see is, that when hit, my hand is practically irreadable), I would bomb the turn rightaway. I mean an overbet to like 1100 to 1400 prepared to call the jam even to overcall two jams. Arguments for this: 1) I've got the best hand I can ever have in the spot. Given the distribution, I kind of have to go for max value. 2) I've got equity even against the nuts. The only hand really crushing me (AA) which is quite improbable to occur. 3) I'm getting always called/raised by all 33 or 55, A3, A5 even A6 (which is like 80 % of SBs value range) sometimes I expect straddle (and once in a while even SB) to call me with like AsXs or some like 7s5s, 6c3c, etc (which he also kind of often has). 4) It looks fishy, it might induce some bluffs from creative players. 5) If called once or twice, it makes easier for me to check back the turn when I do not improve (because I'm in spot only better hands are calling me). Argument againts: It's extremely high variance play. Sometimes I walk into straight (or two straights) and lose.
Just wanted to contribute to these comments. Had some great laughs. On the river "I waited to call" I'm only knocking on this player because he does want to get better, the reason he called in. Apparently how he thought about poker in March 2020, on the river. Tanking=waiting. Not tanking=going through the hand in your head.
I think SB could do that with 33’s or 55’s, if he’s discounting higher sets like 66’s and 10’s based on action, set of 5s is like nut no straight based on preflop action
Man when someone says they bet to see where they are in the hand all the tiny muscles in Barts face start to twitch before they finish their sentence lol
min-raising from UTG is superior to limping, especially with 'speculative' hands that maybe can call a 3-bet if the stacks are deep enough.. i think the only hands to limp with are AA and KK once in a while
Great analysis! This thought happens to me often when I want to flat withe a mediocre hand, but I fold… then see a good for me flop that would’ve run out only to stack me ‘glad I didn’t see that flop’ 😂. Of course it happens when I call too … ‘I need to stop playing shit hands’… lay it down on the flop and then 🏃♀️ 🏃♀️ nuts 😂 . Bart, your videos help a ton… just got a few more leaks to plug. Like remembering my hands accurately so I can call them in 😅
@Eric Cuevas let's see...he said that someone has poor poker fundamentals, you called him a prick. so who's the bigger prick, and what are you doing on youtube?
@Danny Edwardo take a second to realize what channel you are watching you buffoon. This channels entire purpose is educating poker players and you are worried about people doing the same in the comments? Are you really that fucking stupid?
For non professional let me give you a profitable tip. 2-7 pairs, just call limp and 3x raises and if you miss flop(trips or up and down straight draw) just fold, you're just not that good to be strung along with hero calls
One thing missing rom the commentary by Brad is that the caller should not be playing anywhere near 5-10-20. Given his theoretical understanding of very basic aspects of this hand I think he'd have trouble reliably beating 1/2 live over a decent sample (if there is any such thing). I mean, let's start with this very competent, thinking player in the SB who never makes mistakes limping the SB with 2x4x. I mean...whaaa? Move down and study.
Yeah I'm actually not sure why he said Chicago because it's definitely not! it's in Indiana. It is the closest casino with a poker room that's true. The other casino Rivers casino does not have a poker room. And people prefer not to play in Elgin or Aurora or Juliet or any casinos in Illinois because the rake is so high. I actually prefer to go to potawatomi which is in Milwaukee
These people exist. They make +$500,000 a year and like to hit the casino. He's trying to learn poker, which is the most interesting game in the house, but he's not going to play $1-3 cause at his income level, there's no adrenaline rush when he wins. I remember an interview with pro Jennifer Harmon where they asked her why she plays in Bobby's Room against the world's best when she could drop down a few levels and clean up? She answered "You'd be surprised how often Bobby's Room is the softest game going that night."
Are the bigger cash games dying to the point where pros need to call in to Bart's show as a marketing ploy and pretend they play $5-10 and have no idea what they're doing?
I know you're suppose to fold any offsuit connectors, but I've seen way too many hands where the fish are splashing around and I flop a straight and I question that wisdom. Just fold if the board pairs, or somebody represents a flush. Even if it only happens a couple percent of the time, I usually lose 1 bb to potentially win somebody's entire stack because they had a pair of aces, 2 pair, or a low straight. I mean, I still fold them unless I'm extremely bored, I just find I regret it a lot. It's just an automatic fold if I'm not on the button, then 30 seconds later, I'm asking God why he hates me.
Call a pot sided bet 4-way with 66 on an ace rainbow flop, with a player behind. Hit the most perfect possible runout in the known universe. Still get stacked 😂. Why was that so satisfying ..? I mean you’re calling the flop with the worst possible pair, one that double blocks 6-4 and 6-5.
this reminds me of that tom dwan hand when he had 2 5 offsuit and that japanese guy turned a set of 8s lol maannn tough luck. i wouldve called too. honestly i wouldve snapped it lol
Bart: I'm not sure i agree hes going to show up on the river with a better or worse hand that a set of 6s. People overvaluse their hands all the time - I'd call because theres enough of the time someone chk raises for value with a worse hand like A 10 or 5 5 . I dont think most of the time someone is bluffing with a 4 in their hand in lower stakes games but people do over value their hands enough to make this a call. YOu dont agree?
I agree that people over value their hands at these stakes all the time. But the way this hand went down, and the amount of people that were involved in it, add more combos of hands that will be left by the end that are nutted. And I feel like even weaker opponents aren't completely oblivious to the fact there were a lot of people that saw the flop as well, so maybe there are straights out there and a set of 5's isn't the nuts. I was surprised Bart thought the SB might even have a possibility of a bluff here, I knew it was 24 all day (expected suited but ya). You really think SB is going to check raise the river with a set of 5's there after already betting himself and calling a raise himself on the turn (with 3 ppl still in the hand!!!) No one is check-raise value betting anything but a straight on this river. At these stakes anyway with the way this hand went down.
I would agree that at low and midstakes that its much more likely that this is either a complete airball bluff or an overvalued AT or 55 than it is something like 4x. Typical people in these games don't think about blockers or removal, that is just not something they're even remotely close to thinking about or understanding. That said, I still think this is very rarely an overvalued hand like AT or even 55. Most people just aren't super aggressive with non nutted hands on the river, especially when you look as strong as a turn c/r and betting the river and when they could just call your decent sized bet and showdown. The main problem this guy should be having is whether or not he thinks this guy is bad enough to have completed 42 or 74 in the SB in a 3 blind game. It's somewhat reasonable if he has 74s, but he shouldn't have 74o, 42o or 42s if he's even remotely competent, which evidently he isn't and the caller vastly overestimated him.
Hoping for a six in that spot is, well, one way to lose over the long haul. No way playing that way pays off in hand after hand after hand. Either you can bully the crowd with equity, or you are bluffing, sir! And the SB might actually be a good player that knows the kind of nonsense he can pull at the table. 2/4o is funny tho. This is why we more often than not want to raise preflop. It helps us identify range.
The logic of blaming mistakes on an earlier street for ending up in a bad spot and ultimately losing a big pot does not account for all of the times the runout is favorable and profitable. In theory, the mistake only costs you what you put in on the street on which you made the mistake.
@@quebecgkexellence9297 I am pretty sure andrew knows that.. likely was a whole lot of limping in that game, his question is more likely amazement that "hero" found it odd.
Couldn't the 66 flop call be better then a rag ace since your so deep still. U can't get the money in with the axe but u hit the six and u can at least go for the stack or easy fold turn bricks
Good example of what are reverse implied odds with this hand. First of all calling the flop bet is just a bad math play period, "set mining" a turn card, when there is an A and str8 draw on the board in a multi-way limped pot, and the SB fires out pot and an immediate call behind him. So the callers line of thinking here is that if I hit my 6, I am likely going to be good since no one should have AA (which btw, I don't know at these stakes but in a lot of lo-limit cash people limp AA from early position looking to trap). But even taking out the AA, there is still 24 to be worried about, and also 47 suited which is double gutted on the flop. So when our 6 does miraculously hit... first of all it took a 2 outer to get there, or we were just going to lose $85 on the flop. But we also have a more than decent chance that hitting the 6 won't even be enough to win this hand - it is going to end up being a trouble card and make us want to put more money in the pot with not the best hand. It is like drawing to the lower end of a straight in Omaha in a multi-way pot on the flop, you are getting odds (bad ones at that), to hit a hand that is likely going to get you in trouble more often than not. Caller literally needed to hit his 6 AND the board to pair after that to make money on this hand. Easy fold on the flop... But for the sake of finishing my thoughts on this. If I did somehow get to the turn and hit a set, I am still going to be very cautious of why the SB led out into so many people, and unless I boat up on the river I am not putting anymore money in (which is why fold flop 100% of the time here).
@@effortlessawareness8778 I hear what you are saying dude... but feel like if people are going to play bad and not try and get better they won't listen to me anyway. If someone cares enough to try and get better than the information is out there for them, I can't stop them from trying to get better or stay the same.
@@effortlessawareness8778 lol. Every card room I've been to is packed with losing regs. They know - or could/should know - that they're consistently losing and that they can fix it by learning basic strategy. But they choose not to because they want something other than pure profit (or focused desire to win) out of poker - whether or not they're aware of it. There are countless well known training sites and thousands of videos that are in theory a lot more "damaging" than a comment on YT. Drop in the ocean.
In a certain type of game I have a limping strategy. But yea fold this 66 OTF. River...... if he is really, REALLY a good player yea I am calling. Because the hero should never have 33, 55, 66, 74s, 42s in this spot. A4ss, A2ss are 2 combos of a possible maybe 2 value combo of 42ss and 74ss Even so he should be reraising the turn. But he isn't if he has 24o and we should fold. I 100% need to move up in stakes.
LB comes along for 15 more pre with 60 already in the pot? Sure it's not the "right" play but it's a hand you can easily get off if the pot gets raised pre by the BB or the Straddle and super easy to get off post if you don't smash. Speculating from time to time just pays off. Just don't do it all the time.
Thank god for players who call because they "have a weird feeling they could spike a 6". The Horseshoe should be sponsored by Verizon for its unlimited calling plans. OMFG - 4/2o in the SB in a straddled pot???!!! Knowing that, this guy still refers to the SB as "competent and high level".
I'm not saying you should limp Ace 9 UTG, definitely a bad play. But I disagree with Bart that you should fold on the flop to a pot size bet. I am calling one street and if he bets pot on the turn I would fold. A nine is actually a strong kicker for a limped pot since people should definitely be raising Ace 10 pre flop with a decent amount of dead money in there. Small blind could be a good player post flop but he's obviously a donkey pre flop. Saying this river is under bluffed is an understatement. It's almost never bluffed and only terrible players would check raise the river with a set of threes
It's not as strange as you might think. The majority of players have a river check-raise bluff frequency of exactly zero. People take ridiculous lines and end up on the river with the nuts far, far more often than they check-raise all in as a bluff. I think what Bart is saying is that when villain takes this action on the river, it's just never surprising for him to turn over the nuts, no matter how nonsensical it is for him to have it given his action on previous streets.
On the flop, given that the caller said the SB was "competent" Bart said "he shouldn't have 2-4". By the end of the call, Bart KNEW that 1) The caller is HORRIBLE and thus, his evaluation of 'competent' is horrible. Plus, the raise on the river? Yeah, he shouldn't have 2-4, but I wasn't surprised that he did either. It makes sense
Yeah, but when someone raises, you call, and they have something you already ruled out of their range, and you called because of it, saying im not surprised when they have it is a Mondays Expert statement. The correct statement is wow that's surprising..
@@gregjohnson6793 I mean as soon as he heard sb pot bet into 3 people he knew he wasn't competent. Then it turns out he flopped the nuts and bets pot? Lol how did he get so much action this call is hilarious.
Total "overthinker" who doesn't know enough to think. If he spikes a six, the only hand that will build a pot are those that have him beat. Don't limp open, ever, and fold on the flop bet. All that hitting your six will do is win you a small pot or get you stacked.
So, when a caller doesn't know what a 3 bet is, says he's "betting to find out where he's at" and starts off with open limping 66 - you really need to quickly get off his assessment as the SB as "competent"
Greg Johnson Jeezus you ripping the guy to shreds is not good for the game. Think about it... Why would you discourage these players they may stop playing come on now. We need to encourage more players and sympthasize with them be friendly to them and let them justify their actions These are MY primary customers $ they will put my kids thru college in the future they are our clientele.... Do you catch my drift? llol Just let it be... Even delete your originalcomment
I haven't read the flames in the comments, but if I were the SB and led the flop for a PSB, you should be very worried about me having A5s, A3s, 55, 33, and not much else. Okay, press play.
No offense to all you bracelet winners but what if the villain was bluffing? Aces up isn't impossible either. Granted the guy shouldn't have been past the flop.
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey Bart Im playing for fun but one guy thinks im pro. Want to know if this is a good play. Ok, so I have a hand for you, so I limp SB with 24o....
To anyone saying that poker is dead, in a 5/10/20 people like the caller and the SB play.
You can still profit from this game.
Live poker is as bad as it was 10 years ago (thankfully). Online is a different world.
@@1warlock97 while what you said holds pretty true imo, I think online still has many bad players as well, you just need to have to play at the right sites and right type of stakes.
But yea there are more bots and crap like that to worry about, the players themseleves aren't honestly that better overall... or rather I feel like I have gotten even better myself as well so that is almost moot (I was also winning player 10+ years ago)
In short yea, poker is still very beatable as of today.
4k stack. Doesn't know what a 3 bet is.
@@Havefunatwork lol :D. 4k literally lit on fire in front of our eyes haha.
Honestly this might be the worst hand I have ever seen played by a caller on Bart's show. He lost 4k in a pot where he should of lost like 20 bucks or whatever the straddle was.
As Tony G would say "This is not something for someone to learn from"!
@@Haanski - I agree that online is beatable, just not for the same ungodly number of BB/100 that live is and certainly not at the same stakes. I've been playing deep-stacked 10/20 live for a long time (too long). A guy can make a pretty penny in these games being modestly competent. 200-500NL online are far harder games, with and without bots. I'm not at the point where I can make up in volume online what I can make live on an hourly basis. More convenient though and great for practice.
"Maybe I can spike a 6".
Hero found the ultimate solver..
If the caller is 3 year 5/10/20 reg and stations off 66 on an ace high multiway flop and the "very good, competent player" plays 42o in the small, then I'm fucking Linus Loeliger. MVP of the hand is Bart for being really, lets say, "nice" to the guy.
You have to gamble with poverty stricken hands like 4 2 once in a while that way you don't always show up with AK . I crack AA KK with poverty hands hit big or fold
@@certifiedvirologist9918 yeah for sure...once in a while when the table dynamics are right (a lot of aggression)...
@@compteofficiel4112 Play mostly 2 3 games hopefully with alot if Asians at the table.
@@certifiedvirologist9918 be on the lookout for Russians, former Soviet Russian republics (XX-istan/slovakia/..., and the rest of Eastern Europeans as well...all madmen!
@@compteofficiel4112 I play with them at commerce casino near Los Angeles
"This is where I felt like I was gonna figure out where I was in the hand immediately."
Bart: *sigh* Well you don't--I mean--I uhh--how long have you been playing cash for? Just out of curiosity."
Is the most savage unintentional roast I have ever heard in my life. I don't wanna be mean to the guy but I cringed so hard when he said that
And yet this guy is playing larger stakes than I've ever been comfortable with lol
This dude gives me hope that live games are truly alive and well :)
Bart: "So you might get flamed in the chat..."
Chat:
Also:
Chat:
I swear, with this one hand I can tell that 2/5 games in Vegas are tougher than this game. Hell ... 1/2 games may be tougher!
@@Funktaro5 Dude there is no fucking way this dude is playing $5/$10/$20. No fucking way. I also live in the midwest and in the last 6 months made the jump from $2/$5 to $5/$10 and the $2/$5 games were no where near this soft. I can't remember the last time I've seen a multiway limp, much less with a straddle.
Also this dude doesn't know what a 3 bet is, doesn't know what position is. He thinks players who limp in with the 2 4 from the SB are great. This dude is lost.
The way he talked about the game, it sounds like it's a 1-2 game. He said things that that a good player never says - raise to see where I am at. He's 3 betting turn to 560. He doesn't know what a 3 bet is, and he is playing 5-10-20? Alrighty then........
the "3-bet" part could well have been a slip-up. i assume this guy's a competent recreational player w/ some money
@@dice1296 yes, you could be right. Players like that can definitely be dangerous.
Bukowski / lol
@@dice1296 nobody competent overcalls a potsize bet with an under pair lol.
@@joshbrucks and then calls in to a podcast about such a retarded spot
Bart : "This is a fold. You have a 2 outer"
Caller:"Youre PROBABLY right"
the reason isn't only because of 2 outer, but the board A 3 5, with limp pot and 2 people calling and a rainbow board, one of them might have a straight draw, even a gut shot like A4, 47, or even 42 is also possible, so the 6 on the turn might be your disaster card however if the flop is A 3 8 rainbow, then this is a different story, the pot was 4 way, a 6 on the turn is your money card
A smart guy who really thinks about the possible ranges etc. This hand really demonstrates how important fundamentals are. Even if a game is playing 'big' for you, limping pre leaves you in these kinds of spots.
Bart, you're awesome dude but why does your intro sound like you're reading out a hostage letter
Hahahahahah
It’s bc he has the most annoying voice accent but really awesome content
Hahahahahaahahaahahaahah
He in a Nerd/ Geek with low social life
Thanks, I'll never hear this intro the same again lol
"So I was set mining the turn..."
yea that is never the smartest way to make money... especially when your pair is never good, and even hitting the set doesn't give you the nuts yet.
karlinchina So I’m listening to the call now and I just heard him say the small blind bet out a nearly pot sized bet in to 3 other players and then he should just fold and end of the call. I mean there’s no way he called that bet right?
roughly 25-1 against
Bruce M. that’s a pretty rough estimate, you can do better.
@@Stockhandle123 it's not that rough, actually. 24.5 to 1 i guess is more precise, right? hell, that's like printing money!!!! L O L
Secondary game theory:
If you're going to call with a pocket pair on A35r to try to turn a set (which to begin with, set mining the turn is typically really bad, especially when your call does not close the action on the flop) 66 is literally the WORST pair to do it with. The reason? The only two serious draws on A35r are 64, which you double block, which means the other one, the 74 double gutter, is the most likely, which gets there if you somehow gin your set. If you feel the need to set your money on fire by set mining turns, at least do it with a pair that does not change the texture of the board when you hit it (like 88-JJ in this hand).
Admittedly, I set mine the turn sometimes myself. Drilling the ol' 4.5%er on someone can be really profitable... But (and it's a big but) it basically requires ~5 ideal things to justifiably attempt to do: 1) My set card doesn't change the board texture or complete obvious draws, 2) the price is reasonable 3) the bettor seems pretty strong already or it's multiway, 4) the effective stacks are large so you can maximize profit when you get there, and 5) my call closes the action on the flop so I'm at least assured of seeing the turn.
Stacks have to be REALLY large to profit set mining the turn. Your paying the bet 20 times before you hit so you effectively need absolutely ridiculous pot odds on the flop or 20x a reasonable bet you called just to maybe make a profit. (Sometimes you lose, sometimes you dont get paid off etc.) Set mining the turn is 99.9% always bad. Calling with middle pair is not if you suspect your pocket 8s to be good some of the time at showdown.
I was just thinking when I was watching this, "I'm only set-mining with eights and up" and then I saw your comment.
Well put..
@@Niko-et4yz There are a few incorrect things in your comment there friendo. Not the least of which is straight up fucking Math. You last sentence is a straight up dumpster fire of bad information, if you can correct these few egregious errors, ultimately changing the very point of your post, then sure you might be able to make some sense in the future. As it stands right now, it seems your school system has failed you in multiple ways. But thanks for the entertaining try.
Great work Sky
Most players would fold kings on that flop, and he can't fold pocket 6s?!
I can almost forgive the river call.. the flop call is unforgivable though
When he said “Now I have a weird spot” on flop, my jaw dropped 😂 sometimes I listen to these to remind myself of the level of some players and why I shouldn’t try to hard to figure out what they are thinking 😂
I was thinking he thought I had AT. Like wtf.
Well that was a Trainwreck... "The SB is a good player so I think he bets to get rid of other hands." That is some coherent reasoning to OVERcall with less than top pair. A beginner playing 5-10, the regs are licking their chops.
Apparently live poker is very much alive at 5-10/20 level in Chicago...
Poker is very much alive at lower stakes too. PLO is where it's at mainly.
That is just a reason for opening hands with a reasonable raise or fold them preflop. Getting hands in there like 2-4o from "very competent" players is just a debacle when hitting any value and having to fold to "never a bluff" raises on the river. This hand is a trashcan on fire.
This very competent player totally almost lost a ton of value by not 3 betting turn also. I'm just putting EP on a set, and making him pay big time to draw to full house, and setting up a river shove.
@@timb4248 he also almost lost a ton of value by petting pot on the flop. This had is so hilarious.
I love Bart because he’s the best teacher no one knows about
I know about him
A terrible limp that just stacked the caller 😂
The caller played it even worse. Fold flop... also if for some reason I got to the river like that I may either check behind or bet fold, no way I am putting the rest of my stack in against the sb though. punt city
Both of them are spewtards
The mistake was before the flop. Just raise pre or fold. Really helps define ranges and allows you to win the pot on favorable boards. Limping is praying you cooler someone.
Very good insight about limping strategy and how river situations are under bluffed
Calls with 66 for pot bet... I'd play with this guy all day lmao
The poker gods gave the caller 2 chances to save his 300bbs
1. Don’t limp pre
2. Fold flop
The caller just had to punt though
punters gonna punt
I think hero's read on village is still right. Villain believe either of these guy is a fish and he can stack em. Look at the how villain just called on turn to hero's raise. Villain correctly deducted that hero is capped with a set but straddle can have a better straight since he completed PF action. Once straddle folds, villain knew he had the best hand almost always and extracted the max.
I guess I could see the limp if a lot of players are playing around 100bb, which is 50bb effective with the limp. Kind of sucks when you open small pairs and a player with 1000 in front of them 3bets to 200.
yea i agree with that. I can totally get on board with the limp preflop for that exact reason. You just got to be ready to fold when a flop like that comes out
Amazing how many times a "lucky" turn after a questionable flop call costs me money.
Two mistakes... not open raising a straddle in HJ, and continuing with the hand with basically 2nd pair against what you perceive as a competent player who is WAY out of position. No reason to call the flop... When you limped in, that relegated you to set mining. You didn't hit the set, you didn't flop a draw... you're done with the hand.
"figure out where I am in the hand" famous last words of many a bad poker player's chips. Even if you spike your 6 here one of main hands that crushes you gets there which is certainly in play in a multi way limped pot. More alarming is just the way he talks about the game and verbiage that he uses. He sounds like the nice old lady I see at the 75 dollar bingo hall tourneys on Wednesday night.
Personally, if I ever call the flop like that with 66 (and the only argument for it I see is, that when hit, my hand is practically irreadable), I would bomb the turn rightaway. I mean an overbet to like 1100 to 1400 prepared to call the jam even to overcall two jams. Arguments for this: 1) I've got the best hand I can ever have in the spot. Given the distribution, I kind of have to go for max value. 2) I've got equity even against the nuts. The only hand really crushing me (AA) which is quite improbable to occur. 3) I'm getting always called/raised by all 33 or 55, A3, A5 even A6 (which is like 80 % of SBs value range) sometimes I expect straddle (and once in a while even SB) to call me with like AsXs or some like 7s5s, 6c3c, etc (which he also kind of often has). 4) It looks fishy, it might induce some bluffs from creative players. 5) If called once or twice, it makes easier for me to check back the turn when I do not improve (because I'm in spot only better hands are calling me). Argument againts: It's extremely high variance play. Sometimes I walk into straight (or two straights) and lose.
Just wanted to contribute to these comments. Had some great laughs.
On the river "I waited to call"
I'm only knocking on this player because he does want to get better, the reason he called in.
Apparently how he thought about poker in March 2020, on the river. Tanking=waiting. Not tanking=going through the hand in your head.
I think SB could do that with 33’s or 55’s, if he’s discounting higher sets like 66’s and 10’s based on action, set of 5s is like nut no straight based on preflop action
Hero made lots of rookie mistakes he needs to join the Bart training site. As always great video Bart, thank you
Sounds to me like the best player at this table was in the big blind.
Man when someone says they bet to see where they are in the hand all the tiny muscles in Barts face start to twitch before they finish their sentence lol
God bless this guy
min-raising from UTG is superior to limping, especially with 'speculative' hands that maybe can call a 3-bet if the stacks are deep enough.. i think the only hands to limp with are AA and KK once in a while
Great analysis! This thought happens to me often when I want to flat withe a mediocre hand, but I fold… then see a good for me flop that would’ve run out only to stack me ‘glad I didn’t see that flop’ 😂. Of course it happens when I call too … ‘I need to stop playing shit hands’… lay it down on the flop and then 🏃♀️ 🏃♀️ nuts 😂 . Bart, your videos help a ton… just got a few more leaks to plug. Like remembering my hands accurately so I can call them in 😅
What the hell are people like this even doing playing 10/20 with such poor fundamentals? Does he have a money tree that funds his bankroll?
@Danny Edwardo The salary of which he enjoys lighting on fire at the high stakes poker table, apparently.
@Eric Cuevas let's see...he said that someone has poor poker fundamentals, you called him a prick. so who's the bigger prick, and what are you doing on youtube?
@Danny Edwardo he never even said that he plays poker for money, let alone professionally. don't be a shit
@Danny Edwardo I mean bart looks like a kid so give him a break
@Danny Edwardo take a second to realize what channel you are watching you buffoon. This channels entire purpose is educating poker players and you are worried about people doing the same in the comments? Are you really that fucking stupid?
great analysis on post-flop esp bc I agree FOLD,,,hit your 6 could be dangerous...and 6 comes on turn..yikes
For non professional let me give you a profitable tip. 2-7 pairs, just call limp and 3x raises and if you miss flop(trips or up and down straight draw) just fold, you're just not that good to be strung along with hero calls
One thing missing rom the commentary by Brad is that the caller should not be playing anywhere near 5-10-20. Given his theoretical understanding of very basic aspects of this hand I think he'd have trouble reliably beating 1/2 live over a decent sample (if there is any such thing). I mean, let's start with this very competent, thinking player in the SB who never makes mistakes limping the SB with 2x4x. I mean...whaaa?
Move down and study.
Yeah I'm actually not sure why he said Chicago because it's definitely not! it's in Indiana. It is the closest casino with a poker room that's true. The other casino Rivers casino does not have a poker room. And people prefer not to play in Elgin or Aurora or Juliet or any casinos in Illinois because the rake is so high. I actually prefer to go to potawatomi which is in Milwaukee
These people exist. They make +$500,000 a year and like to hit the casino. He's trying to learn poker, which is the most interesting game in the house, but he's not going to play $1-3 cause at his income level, there's no adrenaline rush when he wins. I remember an interview with pro Jennifer Harmon where they asked her why she plays in Bobby's Room against the world's best when she could drop down a few levels and clean up? She answered "You'd be surprised how often Bobby's Room is the softest game going that night."
Are the bigger cash games dying to the point where pros need to call in to Bart's show as a marketing ploy and pretend they play $5-10 and have no idea what they're doing?
Lollollollollollol that is exactly how I would play as the villain against somebody like the hero LOL 😂
Good stuff here but jesus christ the ads are out of control
I know you're suppose to fold any offsuit connectors, but I've seen way too many hands where the fish are splashing around and I flop a straight and I question that wisdom. Just fold if the board pairs, or somebody represents a flush.
Even if it only happens a couple percent of the time, I usually lose 1 bb to potentially win somebody's entire stack because they had a pair of aces, 2 pair, or a low straight.
I mean, I still fold them unless I'm extremely bored, I just find I regret it a lot. It's just an automatic fold if I'm not on the button, then 30 seconds later, I'm asking God why he hates me.
Call a pot sided bet 4-way with 66 on an ace rainbow flop, with a player behind. Hit the most perfect possible runout in the known universe. Still get stacked 😂. Why was that so satisfying ..?
I mean you’re calling the flop with the worst possible pair, one that double blocks 6-4 and 6-5.
I thought he over called on the flop as brt mentioned he had a tight range betting there
love your content!!! these videoes are helping thx
Bart was the Chris K strategy on limped pots streamed or in some TCH video? I’m looking to learn more about limped pots.
this reminds me of that tom dwan hand when he had 2 5 offsuit and that japanese guy turned a set of 8s lol maannn tough luck. i wouldve called too. honestly i wouldve snapped it lol
He had two red sixes so on the flop he thought the 5 was a black 6.
I got ads five times in this video.
Fixed sorry about that. Bart
nice ..ty ..may i ask .. is it ok that im watchin this ..!??! ,,,. cause im from europe
So it ISNT just prevalent in lower stakes... 😲
Oh man what a spottt
A limped pot at the 5/10/20 level indeed live poker still lives!
Bart:
I'm not sure i agree hes going to show up on the river with a better or worse hand that a set of 6s. People overvaluse their hands all the time - I'd call because theres enough of the time someone chk raises for value with a worse hand like A 10 or 5 5 . I dont think most of the time someone is bluffing with a 4 in their hand in lower stakes games but people do over value their hands enough to make this a call. YOu dont agree?
I agree that people over value their hands at these stakes all the time. But the way this hand went down, and the amount of people that were involved in it, add more combos of hands that will be left by the end that are nutted.
And I feel like even weaker opponents aren't completely oblivious to the fact there were a lot of people that saw the flop as well, so maybe there are straights out there and a set of 5's isn't the nuts.
I was surprised Bart thought the SB might even have a possibility of a bluff here, I knew it was 24 all day (expected suited but ya). You really think SB is going to check raise the river with a set of 5's there after already betting himself and calling a raise himself on the turn (with 3 ppl still in the hand!!!)
No one is check-raise value betting anything but a straight on this river. At these stakes anyway with the way this hand went down.
I would agree that at low and midstakes that its much more likely that this is either a complete airball bluff or an overvalued AT or 55 than it is something like 4x. Typical people in these games don't think about blockers or removal, that is just not something they're even remotely close to thinking about or understanding. That said, I still think this is very rarely an overvalued hand like AT or even 55. Most people just aren't super aggressive with non nutted hands on the river, especially when you look as strong as a turn c/r and betting the river and when they could just call your decent sized bet and showdown.
The main problem this guy should be having is whether or not he thinks this guy is bad enough to have completed 42 or 74 in the SB in a 3 blind game. It's somewhat reasonable if he has 74s, but he shouldn't have 74o, 42o or 42s if he's even remotely competent, which evidently he isn't and the caller vastly overestimated him.
this hand is played like ppl form a 2/4 limit game
Games not dead.
It is when you say this. Stfu lol 🤫
great episode, thanks bart
this is every online poker cash game lmfaooo
Hoping for a six in that spot is, well, one way to lose over the long haul. No way playing that way pays off in hand after hand after hand. Either you can bully the crowd with equity, or you are bluffing, sir! And the SB might actually be a good player that knows the kind of nonsense he can pull at the table. 2/4o is funny tho. This is why we more often than not want to raise preflop. It helps us identify range.
Everyone getting mad at the caller but guys like these pay pros’ mortgages
Half of crush live poker audience books plane tickets to Chicago
And a hand like this you just have to take the hit. If u play it, you got what u were looking for. It's just a cooler
The logic of blaming mistakes on an earlier street for ending up in a bad spot and ultimately losing a big pot does not account for all of the times the runout is favorable and profitable. In theory, the mistake only costs you what you put in on the street on which you made the mistake.
V never has 33 or 55 otr, he would come out and value bet those hands or check call almost always
First rule of no limit never go broke in an un-raised pot.
What if SB said they would fold if the river paired the board. Would Bart say their call pre was still too loose?
I guess I’m asking ranges vs SPR when I feel like I can make correct river decisions 50,75,100% of the time. I think I’m phrasing that correctly...
This is great :)
Christian Soto?
3:02 “the button calls the $20, which I thought was a little odd”. Why? Wtf.
button have absolute position, its odd cuz he normally should positional raise to steal the dead money and limping from the button is horrible.
@@quebecgkexellence9297 I am pretty sure andrew knows that.. likely was a whole lot of limping in that game, his question is more likely amazement that "hero" found it odd.
Fold pre, Fold flop, Fold Turn before I even saw the action, and fold river.
Dude is the spot, poor guy.
This is a 1/2 fish playing 10/20.
Couldn't the 66 flop call be better then a rag ace since your so deep still. U can't get the money in with the axe but u hit the six and u can at least go for the stack or easy fold turn bricks
You're so funny you're awesome! You are way too nice LOL LOL
That's why people play unorthodox so you can't really put them on a hand and when it hits it's usually big!
gotta call on the end
Needs more adverts
Matt berkey says live poker is gonna be terrible after this epedemic. Look up poker after corona. Real good interview
It's an hour long. Can u give me the cliffs?
Tyler Joyner he is wrong. I’ve been talking to a lot of bad played poker players and they are itching they cannot wait to get back to the tables.
@@Stockhandle123 not if they don't have any money left
you are good How about tournament hands?
Good example of what are reverse implied odds with this hand. First of all calling the flop bet is just a bad math play period, "set mining" a turn card, when there is an A and str8 draw on the board in a multi-way limped pot, and the SB fires out pot and an immediate call behind him.
So the callers line of thinking here is that if I hit my 6, I am likely going to be good since no one should have AA (which btw, I don't know at these stakes but in a lot of lo-limit cash people limp AA from early position looking to trap). But even taking out the AA, there is still 24 to be worried about, and also 47 suited which is double gutted on the flop. So when our 6 does miraculously hit... first of all it took a 2 outer to get there, or we were just going to lose $85 on the flop. But we also have a more than decent chance that hitting the 6 won't even be enough to win this hand - it is going to end up being a trouble card and make us want to put more money in the pot with not the best hand.
It is like drawing to the lower end of a straight in Omaha in a multi-way pot on the flop, you are getting odds (bad ones at that), to hit a hand that is likely going to get you in trouble more often than not. Caller literally needed to hit his 6 AND the board to pair after that to make money on this hand.
Easy fold on the flop... But for the sake of finishing my thoughts on this. If I did somehow get to the turn and hit a set, I am still going to be very cautious of why the SB led out into so many people, and unless I boat up on the river I am not putting anymore money in (which is why fold flop 100% of the time here).
Haanski Stop bro pull yourself together. Youre future net worth is going down every time you make an insightful comment.
@@effortlessawareness8778 I hear what you are saying dude... but feel like if people are going to play bad and not try and get better they won't listen to me anyway.
If someone cares enough to try and get better than the information is out there for them, I can't stop them from trying to get better or stay the same.
@@effortlessawareness8778 lol. Every card room I've been to is packed with losing regs. They know - or could/should know - that they're consistently losing and that they can fix it by learning basic strategy. But they choose not to because they want something other than pure profit (or focused desire to win) out of poker - whether or not they're aware of it. There are countless well known training sites and thousands of videos that are in theory a lot more "damaging" than a comment on YT. Drop in the ocean.
Limp calling out of position is the weakest play in poker...use it as a trap only with strong hands against weaker players
Preflop, everyone limps. SB, who is a good player, bets pot...bruh, that has 2 pair or better all over it.
Nerve play limp pots.
In a certain type of game I have a limping strategy. But yea fold this 66 OTF.
River...... if he is really, REALLY a good player yea I am calling. Because the hero should never have 33, 55, 66, 74s, 42s in this spot. A4ss, A2ss are 2 combos of a possible maybe 2 value combo of 42ss and 74ss Even so he should be reraising the turn.
But he isn't if he has 24o and we should fold.
I 100% need to move up in stakes.
LB comes along for 15 more pre with 60 already in the pot? Sure it's not the "right" play but it's a hand you can easily get off if the pot gets raised pre by the BB or the Straddle and super easy to get off post if you don't smash. Speculating from time to time just pays off. Just don't do it all the time.
The “competent” small blind lead for a nearly pot size bet with the nuts on a rainbow board seems a little odd to me.
WTF love to play in this game!
Thank god for players who call because they "have a weird feeling they could spike a 6". The Horseshoe should be sponsored by Verizon for its unlimited calling plans. OMFG - 4/2o in the SB in a straddled pot???!!! Knowing that, this guy still refers to the SB as "competent and high level".
I'm not saying you should limp Ace 9 UTG, definitely a bad play. But I disagree with Bart that you should fold on the flop to a pot size bet. I am calling one street and if he bets pot on the turn I would fold. A nine is actually a strong kicker for a limped pot since people should definitely be raising Ace 10 pre flop with a decent amount of dead money in there. Small blind could be a good player post flop but he's obviously a donkey pre flop. Saying this river is under bluffed is an understatement. It's almost never bluffed and only terrible players would check raise the river with a set of threes
Pot sized bet into three players, a call, and a guy still left to act behind you? Yeah, I'm folding a weak ace with no back doors.
Bart: "I dont think he has 24 or he shouldnt"
Caller :"He had 24"
Bart: "That doesn't surprise me"
Come on dude..
lmao I noticed that too
It's not as strange as you might think. The majority of players have a river check-raise bluff frequency of exactly zero. People take ridiculous lines and end up on the river with the nuts far, far more often than they check-raise all in as a bluff. I think what Bart is saying is that when villain takes this action on the river, it's just never surprising for him to turn over the nuts, no matter how nonsensical it is for him to have it given his action on previous streets.
On the flop, given that the caller said the SB was "competent" Bart said "he shouldn't have 2-4". By the end of the call, Bart KNEW that 1) The caller is HORRIBLE and thus, his evaluation of 'competent' is horrible. Plus, the raise on the river? Yeah, he shouldn't have 2-4, but I wasn't surprised that he did either. It makes sense
Yeah, but when someone raises, you call, and they have something you already ruled out of their range, and you called because of it, saying im not surprised when they have it is a Mondays Expert statement. The correct statement is wow that's surprising..
@@gregjohnson6793 I mean as soon as he heard sb pot bet into 3 people he knew he wasn't competent. Then it turns out he flopped the nuts and bets pot? Lol how did he get so much action this call is hilarious.
Total "overthinker" who doesn't know enough to think. If he spikes a six, the only hand that will build a pot are those that have him beat. Don't limp open, ever, and fold on the flop bet. All that hitting your six will do is win you a small pot or get you stacked.
So, when a caller doesn't know what a 3 bet is, says he's "betting to find out where he's at" and starts off with open limping 66 - you really need to quickly get off his assessment as the SB as "competent"
Greg Johnson Jeezus you ripping the guy to shreds is not good for the game. Think about it... Why would you discourage these players they may stop playing come on now. We need to encourage more players and sympthasize with them be friendly to them and let them justify their actions These are MY primary customers $ they will put my kids thru college in the future they are our clientele.... Do you catch my drift? llol Just let it be... Even delete your originalcomment
@@effortlessawareness8778 I would have NEVER said this to him live. It would have been "dang man, bad luck. Go get some more $$ and get that back!"
I haven't read the flames in the comments, but if I were the SB and led the flop for a PSB, you should be very worried about me having A5s, A3s, 55, 33, and not much else. Okay, press play.
OUCH the Two Four!!!!!
No offense to all you bracelet winners but what if the villain was bluffing? Aces up isn't impossible either. Granted the guy shouldn't have been past the flop.
5:13, "Would be hard pressed to put somebody on 47"...which is literally the blinds'/straddlers'
most likely continuing combo...
Probably because they called flop for double gutter? Dunno