@@2ToRamble also Nightblood wasn't immune to foresight. It was Renarin. Odium showed up at Taravangian's cell because he didn't think Nightblood was there
@@2ToRamble To add to the nightblood prediction, I have a theory that Szeth might end up as Odium's champion. You said we need that "Oh no, this is going to go badly" moment, and what if Taravangian-Odium reveals himself and then reveals Szeth is going to fight for him. Who knows that Szeth might learn from his family and elders in Shinovar before the contest of champions.
The reason why Odium can't see the Future was no Night blood. It was because of Renarin's power to see the Future, because he can make changes. It's like what happens when two Mistborn use Atium. And Odium can't see what Szeth was going to do because he was close to Renarin.
I think Cultivation is a Big bad for the second half, She had instrumental roles in creating Both Dalinar AND taravangium. If both become shards, she literally is creating her own gods.
I was thinking this maybe, every is just kind of assuming that she is on the good guys' side. I personally think Ba-Ado-Mishram will be the big bad for arc 2.
Additional request: Please consider reading and discussing Stormlight 5 prologue. It is so interesting and I would love to listen to your thoughts on it! 😄
My thoughts on theories. I don’t think it’ll happen but I like Baby Champion theory. Shallan’s mum is 100% a Herald. Kaladin is going to swear the 5th Oath & help Ishar reforge the Oathpath for the 10-20 year time skip as a stalling tactic so Roshar can recover & prepare. I kinda like Herald Kal theory but emotionally & poetically he’s suffered enough and needs a happy ending. Maybe become a background character in Stormlight back half as a retired trainer like Vasher but with good mental health (Kaladin the therapist) Though looking at Dalinar’s deal, it doesn’t look like the Oathpact NEEDS to be reforged for a temporary peace but just for narrative tension surely Dalinar will lose & become a fuse right? Besides stakes, what a Hanging Gun that deserves to be a plot point. Dalinar, honour bound to be an evil fuse & a Stormlight back half villian.
I’m kinda predicting a massive ghost blood rug pull. I could see this going in many ways with either contest of champions winning, but the ghost bloods intervening in a massive way to subvert what the audience would expect the next steps would be. Tend to believe dalinars champion will win, the ghost bloods will sneak right after the W, get what they were wanting and bringing chaos. I see the second arc having a lot of cosmere implications and the ghost bloods seem interested in worldhopping, makes sense for them to try to take the advantage of a vulnerable situation right after a contest of champions.
I don't even read *that* much, and will never be able to get to read everything y'all talk about but I will listen to every piece of content y'all put out. Your banter is hilarious, your energy is infectious, and your comedy is gold. Keep up the great work gents, loving every minute.
The problem with the Ishar/Dalinar battle: Remember, the good guys 'win' whether they win or lose the duel. So whatever loophole Vargodium found, it is some way for neither ending to happen. Though what everyone is skipping over is... why is Vargodium evil now? Why does he suddenly want to kill all humans? Didn't he like 8 seconds ago sacrifice his own life to try and stop this insane war? And now he's just, pure evil, and everyone's cool with that?
I’m reminded of the Russo brothers rationale with Captain America with regards to Kaladin. In the first movie, Steve throws himself on a grenade for soldiers and crashes the plane to save the world so his arc is going from someone who would die for others to someone who is able to live for himself in Endgame. At this point Kaladin suffering, sacrificing, and bearing burdens alone has always been the norm so the most radical thing he could is to live. Skyward sorta had a trial run for that conclusion and really challenges the noble sacrifice idea, so it would really fit in line with Kaladin’s journey as well.
Just finished Rhythm of War and had to come here right away. I cried like a baby during this book. Let’s just say it involved a certain vision. Question, if Dalinar breaks the contract, doesn’t he immediately become Odiums champion as punishment?
Guys, i dont know if you remember this, but the surviving listerners were able to tame chasmfiends. How awesome would it be if venli, leshwi and the others came to the rescue, riding on chasmfiends
I find it funny that people seem to think that Jasnah is wrong in her non believe in Vorinism, while we know that that all the things it teaches, the ideals one should hold because of god and the like are wrong. Honor wasn't the almighty, burning prayers doesn't make him hear you or make them come true, The heralds aren't "devine" and all the other traditions are just that, traditions. I would say that Jasnah is spot on when it comes to her believes. Yes, power exists, spren exist, and there are ways to do "magic", but Vorinisms doesn't worship an almighty god that listens to your wishes and is the one that stears the course of destiny.
My personal theory. Some spoilers ahead: Since Taravangian is blessed/cursed by cultivation he starts the day with a test. On some days he's a genius on others he's bacially stupid and on others something in between. But inversly correlated with his intellectual capacity seems to be his ability for compassion. On stupid days he's able to be compassionate to the max. He's now ascended to godhood and already a genius everyday. But if the blessing of cultivation is somehow sustained, this ability to compassion every other day can penetrate the hate and lust for destruction the aspect of odium Taravangian holds. Maybe this was Taravangians plan all along put down in the great sceme.
I'm finally watching this video 3 months after it dropped. That's because it's taken me 3 months to start and catch up with the Stormlight Archives. Your reviews have gotten me to start reading again after a long time. Looking forward to more reviews, and eventually in the future, being able to watch the Wheel of Time ones.
I think one main theory that has not been addressed is the idea that our main characters will have to renew the oath pact and take the place of some of the heralds.. kaladin and dalinar being tortured on ashin would be a very bittersweet ending 😢
I believe you’re right about stormlight era 2 being a more Cosmere focused but mistborn era 3 is codenamed ghostbloods right now so makes me think that Sanderson is moving the every Cosmere series as a whole into a bigger than just the world they’re on series.
The thing I love about the child champion theory is that it feels like the final conclusion to the debates between Taravangian and Dalinar about utilitarianism. Do the ends justify the means? Taravangian thinks so and if Dalinar kills the child then he proves Taravangian right.
Adolin "Born under the Sign of the Nine" is the champion. Dalinar saw the champion with familiar eyes and nine shadows. Why are Adolin's "sign" the only one mentioned?
So, it's not that Nightblood is blind to future-sight. It's that Renarin blinds future-sight apparently in a mile around him, so he was able to disguise Nightblood. Also I believe Nightblood chipped the Honorblade, not the other way around.
2 to Ramble: "We're gonna start pronouncing names correctly!" Name: Jasnah Pronunciation: Yahs-nah Old 2tR Pronunction: Jas-na New 2tR Pronunctian: Yez-nah 😂😂😂 Love you guys! Keep up the great theorycrafting!
I’d be sold on the Baby Champion theory if it was Adolin. For some reason I feel it more thematic now that since Odium is Todium that Todium would find a way to turn Adolin into his champion.
I think Kaladin's 5th ideal will be "I decide who to protect". If you think about what we learned about the Skybreakers in the Szeth chapters, it says that you give up the 3rd ideal for a greater one in the 5th. They were also saying that at the 5th ideal Skybreakers *become* the law. Whatever they decide is the law. So I believe that at Kaladin's 5th ideal he will be the one who decides who needs protection and who should be destroyed, whether human or singer. He won't be loyal to any boundary lines for fighting like he used to be. Kaladin's 3rd ideal was "I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right". So he will give up that ideal. Also, since the beginning of the story he has been wondering who the good guys are. He was in shock in Oathbringer because both the humans and singers he loved were fighting and dieing. With so many good and bad individuals on both sides I think he's going to eventually say the he chooses who to protect.
Guys, nightblood chipped Ishar's blade. I had a MOMENT when that happened. And absolutely agree that nightblood is key. I think Dalinar loses, becomes a fused, the rest of the series is the cosmere defending against the Blackthorn.
I think the observation that Dalinar can't be around for the back half of SA makes a lot of sense. Literally his whole arc is him slowly taking power because it is what is needed. The closest repudiation of that arc is in ROW when Jasnah is putting her foot down in regards to reformations, and that's less of "Dalinar is bad" and more of "Jasnah is the Monarch that Elokhar couldn't be". Dalinar isn't the type to be retired in the backhalf just watching as the world is presumably again at stake. Maybe Dalinar doesn't die, and is somehow otherwise indisposed, but Dalinar dying does make a lot of sense for setting up the back half of SA. In regards to Kaladin, there is a quote for WOR, during when he's jailed after challenging Amaram where he's like "I'm never going to be in a prison again, I'd rather die". And it seems like were setting up some sort of fixing the oathpact, which is functionally a prison for the heralds, in SA5. IDK where that arc will go, but it seems to me that's setting up some sort of payoff.
Merry Christmas guys! Here are a couple of my theories: 1. When it comes to the contest, whoever the champions are, I think they have to represent both sides well, and they as people have to have a personal connection with each other. The fight would not be as compelling if the champions were Kal abd Taravangion, as they have little to no page time together. Following this logic, we can match champions. If Dalinar is a champion, his opponent could be Taravangion, his grandson Gavinor, or anyone else he has some personal connection to. The same goes for Kal, Szeth, Adolin or whoever. 2. Shallan's mom is definitely a Herald. Not only does Chana look like her, but I heard that Sanderson has confirmed that Taln did not break, though this could just be a rumor. 3. I think Kal, Dalinar, and Adolin will definitely die (or leave Roshar somehow). I like your theory about him becoming like Zahel, but I feel that Kal would not resign himself to that. Dalinar is becoming a Fused and maybe will be a main villain in the second half. I think that this would be one of the most heart-wrenching things we readers could experience, so yay! 😂 4. I have to say, I hated the child champ theory, but Richard, I think you just convinced me. If it does happen, I hope it's as you say. 5. Also, wild one here: Adolin becomes Odium's champion and faces off with either Kaladin or Dalinar. There's a little evidence to this. Dalinar's vision of Odium's champion is something like this: "A man in black Shardplate, with nine shadows around him. Behind him, a golden light, brilliant and terrible." First off, Adolin has a decent amount of darkness within him, as shown when he killed Sadeas, which never really went anywhere. Secondly, Adolin's name means "Born unto the light." A brilliant but terrible golden light? Third, Adolin at one point sats that he was born under the sign of the Nine. Nine shadows? Fourth, on the cover of each book, on tge left is always some kind of antagonist. WoK had a Parshendi, WoR had Szeth, OB had a Thunderclast, RoW had...Adolin? Is this an odd break in the otherwise brilliant and planned art, or is it forshadowing that Adolin could be a villain? Finally, Adolin has a personal connection to almost all of the main cast. 6. But finally, the theory I love most! In a massive plot twist, Dalinar and Odium worldhop to Earth, and Richard becomes Odium's champion, and Austin becomes Dalinar's. Richard, corrupted by Voidlight and fueled by general intolerance of the world, brings his knowledge of WoT to the table and combines Surgebinding with the One Power! Austin, newly elected Windrunner captain, and his spren Red, must face off with his old frenemy using Surgebinding enhanced with Red Rising tech and Last Airbender Fire-bending. The Contest of Champions has come! May the best geek win!
Maybe my favorite end twist to a comment ever lolol. Richard and I dueling to the death is fitting - also love your thoughts and have never heard of the Adolim theory!! This is all making me thinkg
I completely agree with that meta take on Kaladin. I dislike baby theory because it's kind of a cop out? But my belief is that we'll have a fairly dark but actually a non character death ending where Dalinar fights Nale and loses, but it leads to something like Taln becoming fully lucid for a bit and pushing the enemy back again before they can capitalise on it. Imagine some variation of a Dalinar, Adolin, Kaladin, Szeth road trip across the cosmere. Maybe add Kelsier on top. That'd be the most awesome road trip ever.
I don't like the baby theory either. I also don't think Taravangian would do it because he would kill the child no questions asked so to him picking a baby wouldn't be smart because there is the tiniest possibility that they would kill the baby and get the easy win.
@@inkerstheprune2214 Yep. I think Taravangian has found a win win situation, somehow where even a loss for him is a victory. In one way he's already won in the sense that the status quo with regards him and all of his fused being sealed is completely shattered.
Just finished Rhythm of War for the first time. I do think it's interesting how all of the male characters seem like they're destined to die, and the women are likely to live. I'm curious if Sanderson will recognize this and try to Red Herring us
Great video! So many good theories for SA 5. I will say I both love and hate the baby champion theory. I also did not consider how many characters may die in the next book and after listening to this episode I think a lot of them are not making it.
So here is my predictions: Odium wins as it would be a waste to build up the fact Taravangian is now Odium in the previous book. Kaladin will become Honor. He is after all the Son of Tanavast, according to the Stormfather, the sliver of Honor. All of his life is regarding honor. Even when he wanted to break his oath to protect in killing Elokar, he wanted to do it in a way that would be honorable. Killing when the king had a chance to live. An honorable fight as it were. Dalinar will become fused, but will still hear 'unite them' at the back of his mind, for he is destined to unite still. Not nations and people, but the shards of Adonalsium himself. I mean, he already has 3 that are strongly connected to him. Odium via the Thrill, Honor with the Stormfather and his own sense of honor, Cultivation through her mendling. Alongside that, he also represents Preservation as he wanted to do his best to preserve the kingdom of Alethkar. Dominion from the way he leads, never able to share responsibility. Devotion to doing what is right, be it following the almighty or his own conciounse. Ruin, well... look at what he did as the Blackthorn. He even has Virtuosity through his facination with the Way of Kings. Shallan is unclear, but I think she would revive the spren she killed before along with Adolin and Maya. He wont be a radiant, but he would be a knight of some form. This could bring forth the option of having other blades being restored, like Oathbringer. Renarin would probably have to take a form of a leader, I believe. I believe that would be true for him because while it wasnt set up, it is both his expectation as the son of a High Prince but also as a way to stand up to the expectation of both Adolin, Dalinar and what he wanted from himself. He always said he wanted to fight like his father and brother, but they are not just warriors or soldiers, but leaders. In addition, Adolin doesnt really want to become a leader. Sure, he does want to lead his house, but he never gave off that he truly desired that role, especially when the option was given to him to become a king. With Jasnah, I dont really think she would change much, aside from one thing. While she is clearly atheist and set on her beliefs, I do think some of her beliefs about life would change. She is mostly about logic and brutal truth and while she does have a heart, it is only about people around her like Dalinar and Renarin. She still has to have more heart than mind, less about following your head. She needs more of that for certain and that would likely be her arc in the future. I also think that it would also change the way she views her atheism. I still dont think she would have faith in deity, but it would come from a different place and reasoning.
Roshar and the Mistborns are going to be going to war against each other and Dalinar will probably have a role to play in that same as Kel. The looming threat or one of them that will make Lift more important will be the everstorm probably which will in my guess be something like the Weeping where no more high storms come around and no stormlight exists, lift would then be the most important character at the start of SA 2, and off world people bringing in investiture from other worlds would become a huge thing on Roshar which would also probably help ignite the war I previously mentioned.
Wit is going to be Odium's champion. It explains the end scene with him. And, Dalinar and Odium "choose" a champion. Nothing about the champion having to agree to it. If odium wins or loses he's stuck in the system, but if they don't fight (because there is no time limit for the duel just when it starts). Hoid can't die and also can't fight.
20:50 The problem I have with the Gavinor theory is that the sides must choose a WILLING champion. They also state that the SPIRIT of the agreement must be held up as much as the letter, or else Odium will risk killing himself. Taravangian would absolutely be willing to make an underhanded play like that, BUT he would be taking advantage of a four-year-old’s lack of understanding, which could in no reasonable world be seen as choosing a consenting champion AND, if it were to play out, would create a massive plot hole as we will be asking ourselves, “If Odium can just stretch and break this rule, why has he been operating within any kinds of restrictions at all?”
A couple things one the Rayse was the one who claimed he would follow the spirit of the agreement which put him in a bind that would put him in a dangerous position if he toyed around. Taravangian did not. Two willing does not mean the person has to be omnipotent about what they are agreeing to. They can still be tricked it’s just more difficult. Lastly Gavinor already has a connection with Odium and the unmade so I could see that being a connection Taravangian would use.
Alright here goes my predictions. Adolin is champion but dies before duel, Szeth comes in as a sub. Odium picks baby champion (Gavinor), dalinar steps in and contest is over and deal broken. Odium wins. End of part 3. Then 4 and 5 is the "endgame." I'm not sure how the heroes will win but I know they will and Dalinar will take up Odium's shard, and more or less "retire" and be effectively written out of the main story for a time. Shallan goes worldhopping because she has nothing left tying her to Roshar since Adolin is dead. Kaladin takes up Dalinar's role, he and Jasnah have a political marriage to appease other highprinces of Kaladin taking over. I don't see how Kaladin can take over without it all blowing up unless he was given authority politically as well.
Moash is really making some bad choices. He keeps making bad choices. I don't necessarily consider him evil, but all of his choices seem to be aligned with evil. He's already killed King Elokhar, the King of Heralds, and Teft and his spren. I wonder if he will be Odium's champion. I agree that he seems more of a pawn. Still, I wonder if he will get a redemption arc. I was always thinking that Dalinar's champion would be Kaladin. But as I was going through book 3, it seems like Odium wanted Dalinar to be his champion. And that was a wild scene.
I have never been so unbearably excited for a book release. My biggest wish for book 5 is seeing someone swear the 5th ideal. Preferably kaladin. Also i really really really hope Kaladin doesn't die. I could barely cope with how sad ROW was. Edit 1: The multi personality thing isn't done yet. The Veil and Formless personalities are gone but Radiant still exists. I think the Radiant personality also needs to be disolved and that will be part of her climax or arc of this book. Edit 2: Richard should definitely look at the Shallan's mother herald theory closer. Its extremely convincing the point were i would almost want to say its a given. Edit 3: I think Dalinar is absolutley dead by the end of this book. I think Navani will kind of take his place as the leader of the knights radiant. I do wonder who the last bondsmith will be.
Kaladin: honestly, he could go either way and be satisfying, but I’m leaning towards him living because of the “I always live. Everyone I love dies, but I always live.” I think it’s gonna happen again. Shallan: I do think her mom is Chana. I think that being her fifth ideal (wish washy numbers, fourth? To which Spren? Who knows) is a good argument for it, too. And it would hit hard. Syl: while I think it’s theoretically possible for a Spren to become a shard, I don’t think it matches the theme of the cosmere, ie, humans given the powers of gods. I think if anyone Ascends, it will be Dalinar or Kaladin, they are the two who have been exploring most intimately what it means to be honor. Dalinar: I vacillate on this. He’ll either become a fused or Honor (or Unity, or perhaps something like a splinter of Honor’s purposes?) I have no theories on the champion, but I think that there’s a meta argument for Szeth as Odium’s because of the setup with Taravangian early on, with Kaladin for Dalinar. They are traveling together for the first part of the book, so it could be cool narratively and thematically to set that up there, as well. Oh, Renarin, Lift, and jasnah def live. And I think they’re super important for how this books plays out, I just don’t know how. Overall, I can’t wait. I’m gonna cry, I just know it. But I plan on going to DS24, too, so I’ll see you there.
13:40 I don’t think nightblood defends against foresight, I think just renarin does. Nightblood was seen as odiums weakness in his foresight, not invisible
Yeah, Kaladin is 100% going to die or become a herald imo. I’ve been saying it for years. My personal big theory has been that they will try to reform the Oathpact to get a reprieve but something goes terribly wrong and Kaladin sacrifices himself to be the only herald on Braize to try to give the humans a chance to regroup. I think the death rattle “the burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh almighty, release me” probably (most likely) refers to Taln, but maybe it can be referring to Kaladin. I also think Dalinar is going to die. Maybe Adolin as well. I also think the champion may be Oroden, Kaladin’s little brother, because of the death rattle “I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who love wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.” Also, the concept of “reforming honor” keeps coming up, I REALLY don’t like it. Odium’s whole plan is to shatter all the shards until it’s just him left (well, OLD Odium’s plan). Very large stakes there. If a shard can be reformed, the stakes of that is basically out the window. Mere humans can REFORM a SHARD? It’s just so silly. What difference does it make if a shard is broken if it can just be reformed? No, I really don’t like it.
At some point they're going to bring Honor back to life. It'll require some sacrifice from Dalinar and Stormdad, and involve the honourblades and dawnshards, and the vessel will end up being either Dal, Kal or Szeth...
What if dalinar unites the fractions of honor that are in the hearts of men, ascends and becomes honor, chooses to be the champion himself, and then verses Odium himself, then they destroy each other and the shards get dropped, someone picks up both shards together creating a fusion of the two which is called something like Vengence. What if that was Taravangians whole plan from the start, and he was actually looking well beyond the scope of just the Rosharin system.
Hey! I really like the theory of Shallan's lineage and her moving to the rest of the Cosmere. I really hope Adolin and Kal survive. One theory I saw in Reddit was that Oroden and Gavinor are gonna grow up and try to live up to the expectations of being related to heroes and kings. I'd really like them to join Orders we haven't seen much of like Stonewards, Dustbringer, willshaper.
On the dragon steel con Q&A they the second half of the series would be five different viewpoints of a new event. What if they don’t have the contest of champions in this book at all, and the contest of champions is the prologue of the last five books from five different perspectives
Guy in the blue had a scotoma before this interview - I'm also not convinced he's read the books recently...my guy has some decent takes but DUDE, you're way off...the only hot take I was remotely interested in was Syl POTENTIALLY becoming Honor ("Honor lives in the heart of men," holla), but it's laughable to think Kaladin dies before taking the 5th oath AND his last name is f'kn STORMblessed, in the STORMlight archive. Like, his story arch is FARRRRR from over..it'd be like George R.R. Martion killing Jon Snow in book 2...ain't gon' happen my guy!
The only thing I don't like about the theory that Chana is Shallan's mother is that the Heralds are Cognitive Shadows and we know from Warbreaker that Cognitive Shadows on Nalthis can't reproduce so I doubt that it's any different on Roshar.
What scares me is how Kal is a religious figure for the people. When they started painting his forehead markings on, I thought “oh no oh no we know how worshiped figures get treated in the Cosmere.” I don’t think I’d recover to read about Kal dying. I’m hoping that he and syl ascend to become Honor.
Kal will have to accept protection (fifth ideal), but it’ll be the Stormfather (who has come around on Kaladin) and it would result, with Syl nearby, in the reunification of Honor through the help of Bondsmith Dalinar. Just my guess.
I really enjoy your podcast guys, I love hearing you about books, I got into Red Rising partially because of your podcast. I just wanted to comment that we all see Faithful and The Fallen in the top shelf behind you, I was wondering if you are planning on doing a podcast on them, is a series I been looking to get into, I share a lot of opinions with you guys I wanted to hear your thoughts about the series and I am sure It would get good reception. Thanks for your wonderful content
Thanks for the kind words! We dont have any immediate plans to do so, but will eventually get to the series - sorry we’re so iffy on the timeline, just dont want to promise something and not deliver
So about Shallan's multiple personalities, I think it's important to mention who Sanderson brought on for his beta readers in Rhythm of War. At least one of his betas has Dissociative Personality Disorder, DID, and helped coax him into a better understanding and more respectful perspective on a real world topic that is usually written incorrectly in media. The decision to have one of Shallan's alters integrate into Shallan's main alter is a tough decision in its own right, since everyone with DID has their own unique experience. As a lesson in mental health awareness, Sanderson gets an A+ from me.
I mean... what characters that die? Sanderson is iconic for not actually killing off people, at least not until the end of the entire story. Also, Elhokar wasn't really being set up to die until that actual book began. So there's plenty of room in parts 1 and 2 to set up Jasnah's death in part 4 to be tragic.
Whatever the bet is, I doubt it can be done at the Dragonsteel convention because the book will be released on December 6th and the convention is from December 6th to 8th... I imagine a strange convention where everyone is there, but with little to no interaction because everybody is reading the book :D
Jasnah is an atheist like the Witches from Discworld. The gods are self-evidently real, but that's no reason to go around believing in them. Do you "believe" in your table? Do you hold a ritual every week where you praise it? Oh great and noble table, without which we would surely be eating lunch off our knees?
I’m used to Reddit where the unpopular theories get downvoted to heck so it’s refreshing to hear some well thought out and fairly original takes that aren’t all the same ones we hear all the time! It was a blast listening to you guys. My big theory is this: I agree that the contest of champions will happen around the end of part 3 (about half way through) and after winning, Dalinar will be forced to and succeed in killing all the knights radiant (or at least all the Bridgemen.) BUT!! Dalinar’s entire purpose is to Unite them, correct? And Kaladin’s entire story in Rhythm of War was basically setting up group therapy so that the trauma could be handled better as a group and people weren’t made to handle things alone? And we’ve had so many teases about Dalinar’s powers as a bond smith and how he’s yet to realize the full potential? So my real theory is that Dalinar, knowing Taravangian is sneaky, will have the back up plan for when he inevitably loses the contest. This will include forging an entirely new bond, similar to the oathpact, among his most loyal and trusted soldiers (Bridge 4). When these soldiers die after the contest is lost, they will then be transported to Braize, the home base of the Fused, similar to how the Heralds were. Only now, Bridge 4 is equipped with Anti void light weapons and they can open up some kind of oathgate back to Roshar, letting the entire Knights Radiant army back to Braize where they can wipe out Odiums army once and for all, undisturbed by Odium since he’s still bound to Roshar. Anyway it’s a bit of fan fiction at this point, but seems like a logical epic scale ending to have the entire final battle take place at Braize where the full army of the knights radiant can take on the full army of the Fused and bad radiants
Nightblood didn't block the future it was interference from Renarin's ability to view the future. His presence nearby made it hard for Odium to see the future of anyone in that area.
I really don't know how Sanderson is gonna pull it off, but I'm worried. The way I see it, it's gonna be hard to actually get a satisfying ending. If the good guys win through the contest, it feels a bit too easy imo. If they lose, it will feel like a cliffhanger and a downer (kinda like Empire Strikes Back or Avengers: Infinity War) that will pick up 10 years later when Stormlight 6 is released and won't feel like a satisfying ending to this arc. Tbh I feel like it was a bad move on Sanderson's part to announce on before hand that it's gonna be two arcs with a time jump of a few years. Takes away al suspension. He even announced who the flashback characters will be, so you can safely asume those characters will survive the first arc.
Whoever is wrong about Kaladin's fate must cosplay as Syl at Dragonsteel
please vote for this people 🥹
But isn’t Dragonsteel on the release day?
@@Debessh there’s some really fast readers out there
@@brewster_4 void bringers. Be careful
@@Debessh isn't dragonsteel an annual convention?
Whoever loses has to walk around dragonsteel with a sign that says "Teravangian did nothing wrong" throw in a "change my mind" if you so choose.
Or an “I ❤ Moash” shirt
Also an acceptable option@@moose4199
Bet Stakes:
Richard get’s a red rising tattoo.
Austin gets a wheel of time tattoo!
Richard. I think we’ve made a mistake 😭😂
YES
Yes 😂
Yes yes yes yes
Just a slight correction, Nightblood chipped the honor blade
Phew I thought I was going crazy! Lmao I was like uhhh what?! Did I totally read that wrong? 😂😂
SHOOT. Youre right 😂. We even more of a reason to have Nightblood in the duel !
also i think they cant see the future of people around Renarin, not Nightblood
@@2ToRamble also Nightblood wasn't immune to foresight. It was Renarin. Odium showed up at Taravangian's cell because he didn't think Nightblood was there
@@2ToRamble To add to the nightblood prediction, I have a theory that Szeth might end up as Odium's champion. You said we need that "Oh no, this is going to go badly" moment, and what if Taravangian-Odium reveals himself and then reveals Szeth is going to fight for him. Who knows that Szeth might learn from his family and elders in Shinovar before the contest of champions.
Imagine Kaladin has to fight his baby brother and in order to win he says “I will protect even from those I love” and he reaches the fifth ideal
Oh damn!
im 7 month late but this is fucking genius
The reason why Odium can't see the Future was no Night blood.
It was because of Renarin's power to see the Future, because he can make changes.
It's like what happens when two Mistborn use Atium.
And Odium can't see what Szeth was going to do because he was close to Renarin.
I think Cultivation is a Big bad for the second half, She had instrumental roles in creating Both Dalinar AND taravangium. If both become shards, she literally is creating her own gods.
Ooo love this theory
She also created Lift...
Lift to take over cultivation
Dalinar for honor
Tara for Odium
I was thinking this maybe, every is just kind of assuming that she is on the good guys' side. I personally think Ba-Ado-Mishram will be the big bad for arc 2.
Perfect time to listen to this
Depending on who wins the bet, the other has to either cosplay as Szeth or Kaladin (your kinda- favorite characters and kinda-lookalikes)
YES
Oh wow they definitely look like Szeth and Kal lol
Richard is my new official Szeth fancast 😍
😂
Stop, now I'm picturing Rich taking fifteen takes because he keeps dropping Nightblood when he's trying to look intimidating.
lmao@@ilikecomicstoareallyproble8617
I think you hit Kaladin’s fifth ideal on the head. “I will accept protection” or something like that.
"I will wear protection!"
Sanderson recently said Taln at his height is essentially the best one on one fighter. So MAYBE they get Taln?
Additional request: Please consider reading and discussing Stormlight 5 prologue. It is so interesting and I would love to listen to your thoughts on it! 😄
My thoughts on theories.
I don’t think it’ll happen but I like Baby Champion theory.
Shallan’s mum is 100% a Herald.
Kaladin is going to swear the 5th Oath & help Ishar reforge the Oathpath for the 10-20 year time skip as a stalling tactic so Roshar can recover & prepare.
I kinda like Herald Kal theory but emotionally & poetically he’s suffered enough and needs a happy ending. Maybe become a background character in Stormlight back half as a retired trainer like Vasher but with good mental health (Kaladin the therapist)
Though looking at Dalinar’s deal, it doesn’t look like the Oathpact NEEDS to be reforged for a temporary peace but just for narrative tension surely Dalinar will lose & become a fuse right? Besides stakes, what a Hanging Gun that deserves to be a plot point. Dalinar, honour bound to be an evil fuse & a Stormlight back half villian.
I think Kaladin's final Ideal is "I must protect myself"
Nailed it
Merry Christmas, 2ToRamble! What an episode to have available on this day.
Merry Christmas!!
I’m kinda predicting a massive ghost blood rug pull. I could see this going in many ways with either contest of champions winning, but the ghost bloods intervening in a massive way to subvert what the audience would expect the next steps would be. Tend to believe dalinars champion will win, the ghost bloods will sneak right after the W, get what they were wanting and bringing chaos. I see the second arc having a lot of cosmere implications and the ghost bloods seem interested in worldhopping, makes sense for them to try to take the advantage of a vulnerable situation right after a contest of champions.
Oo this is a really good theory too - could definitely see something like this
Bet.
Austin shaves his head like Richard.
Richard buys a Austin wigs and wears it around for X days.
😂
And if they both loose Austin shaves his hair and Richard must wear it as a wig
29:50 fantastic take, this is a genius analysis!
You guys are so cool and likeable, just subscribed
Ah shucks THANKYOU!
I don't even read *that* much, and will never be able to get to read everything y'all talk about but I will listen to every piece of content y'all put out. Your banter is hilarious, your energy is infectious, and your comedy is gold. Keep up the great work gents, loving every minute.
Damn thank you greatly for this, undeserved! Will keep em coming 👊
The problem with the Ishar/Dalinar battle: Remember, the good guys 'win' whether they win or lose the duel. So whatever loophole Vargodium found, it is some way for neither ending to happen.
Though what everyone is skipping over is... why is Vargodium evil now? Why does he suddenly want to kill all humans? Didn't he like 8 seconds ago sacrifice his own life to try and stop this insane war? And now he's just, pure evil, and everyone's cool with that?
I’m reminded of the Russo brothers rationale with Captain America with regards to Kaladin. In the first movie, Steve throws himself on a grenade for soldiers and crashes the plane to save the world so his arc is going from someone who would die for others to someone who is able to live for himself in Endgame.
At this point Kaladin suffering, sacrificing, and bearing burdens alone has always been the norm so the most radical thing he could is to live. Skyward sorta had a trial run for that conclusion and really challenges the noble sacrifice idea, so it would really fit in line with Kaladin’s journey as well.
Just finished Rhythm of War and had to come here right away. I cried like a baby during this book. Let’s just say it involved a certain vision.
Question, if Dalinar breaks the contract, doesn’t he immediately become Odiums champion as punishment?
Guys, i dont know if you remember this, but the surviving listerners were able to tame chasmfiends. How awesome would it be if venli, leshwi and the others came to the rescue, riding on chasmfiends
One small correction: Nightblood was the one who chipped the honorblade.
Our mistake, youre correct!
Just come across you guys, nice to listen a "normal" conversation about the Cosmere! Some of the other content isn't the best these days
Ahh damn, which of our other content hasn’t landed for ya? But glad you liked this one!
I think they meant other Cosmere content (not you guys) lol
Oh phew. Shows you how totally not insecure at all we are lolol@@marcelbeaudoin3886
I find it funny that people seem to think that Jasnah is wrong in her non believe in Vorinism, while we know that that all the things it teaches, the ideals one should hold because of god and the like are wrong.
Honor wasn't the almighty, burning prayers doesn't make him hear you or make them come true, The heralds aren't "devine" and all the other traditions are just that, traditions. I would say that Jasnah is spot on when it comes to her believes.
Yes, power exists, spren exist, and there are ways to do "magic", but Vorinisms doesn't worship an almighty god that listens to your wishes and is the one that stears the course of destiny.
My personal theory. Some spoilers ahead: Since Taravangian is blessed/cursed by cultivation he starts the day with a test. On some days he's a genius on others he's bacially stupid and on others something in between. But inversly correlated with his intellectual capacity seems to be his ability for compassion. On stupid days he's able to be compassionate to the max. He's now ascended to godhood and already a genius everyday. But if the blessing of cultivation is somehow sustained, this ability to compassion every other day can penetrate the hate and lust for destruction the aspect of odium Taravangian holds. Maybe this was Taravangians plan all along put down in the great sceme.
Fith ideal of Kaladin
I also deserve to be protected
(I have read that Theory a lot)
I'm finally watching this video 3 months after it dropped. That's because it's taken me 3 months to start and catch up with the Stormlight Archives. Your reviews have gotten me to start reading again after a long time. Looking forward to more reviews, and eventually in the future, being able to watch the Wheel of Time ones.
I think one main theory that has not been addressed is the idea that our main characters will have to renew the oath pact and take the place of some of the heralds.. kaladin and dalinar being tortured on ashin would be a very bittersweet ending 😢
Ohhh man. Great point
Yeah, I think Kaladin will go there, his Oaths and "training" to overcome depression points to it.
I believe you’re right about stormlight era 2 being a more Cosmere focused but mistborn era 3 is codenamed ghostbloods right now so makes me think that Sanderson is moving the every Cosmere series as a whole into a bigger than just the world they’re on series.
Saved this for when I finished reading Stormlight, great content, also Kaladin/Syl dying is gonna be rough.
The thing I love about the child champion theory is that it feels like the final conclusion to the debates between Taravangian and Dalinar about utilitarianism. Do the ends justify the means? Taravangian thinks so and if Dalinar kills the child then he proves Taravangian right.
That does make it so inreresting
That’s probably the biggest reason I subscribe to the theory and would be happy if he went that way.
Adolin "Born under the Sign of the Nine" is the champion. Dalinar saw the champion with familiar eyes and nine shadows. Why are Adolin's "sign" the only one mentioned?
So, it's not that Nightblood is blind to future-sight. It's that Renarin blinds future-sight apparently in a mile around him, so he was able to disguise Nightblood.
Also I believe Nightblood chipped the Honorblade, not the other way around.
Intros are really getting better! 😅🤣 Thanks for this post Christmas gift. I need it.
It comes out the day before my birthday!! Hell yeah
"Honore is dead, but I'll see what I can do"
2 to Ramble: "We're gonna start pronouncing names correctly!"
Name: Jasnah
Pronunciation: Yahs-nah
Old 2tR Pronunction: Jas-na
New 2tR Pronunctian: Yez-nah
😂😂😂
Love you guys! Keep up the great theorycrafting!
😂😂
Jake Bishop's take is genius. He nailed it with the "omg" moment. My pick was Nail, but Ishar makes so much more sense.
I’d be sold on the Baby Champion theory if it was Adolin. For some reason I feel it more thematic now that since Odium is Todium that Todium would find a way to turn Adolin into his champion.
I think Kaladin's 5th ideal will be "I decide who to protect". If you think about what we learned about the Skybreakers in the Szeth chapters, it says that you give up the 3rd ideal for a greater one in the 5th. They were also saying that at the 5th ideal Skybreakers *become* the law. Whatever they decide is the law. So I believe that at Kaladin's 5th ideal he will be the one who decides who needs protection and who should be destroyed, whether human or singer. He won't be loyal to any boundary lines for fighting like he used to be.
Kaladin's 3rd ideal was "I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right". So he will give up that ideal. Also, since the beginning of the story he has been wondering who the good guys are. He was in shock in Oathbringer because both the humans and singers he loved were fighting and dieing. With so many good and bad individuals on both sides I think he's going to eventually say the he chooses who to protect.
This is a fantastic theory - I (austin) am convinced!
Guys, nightblood chipped Ishar's blade. I had a MOMENT when that happened. And absolutely agree that nightblood is key.
I think Dalinar loses, becomes a fused, the rest of the series is the cosmere defending against the Blackthorn.
I think the observation that Dalinar can't be around for the back half of SA makes a lot of sense. Literally his whole arc is him slowly taking power because it is what is needed. The closest repudiation of that arc is in ROW when Jasnah is putting her foot down in regards to reformations, and that's less of "Dalinar is bad" and more of "Jasnah is the Monarch that Elokhar couldn't be". Dalinar isn't the type to be retired in the backhalf just watching as the world is presumably again at stake. Maybe Dalinar doesn't die, and is somehow otherwise indisposed, but Dalinar dying does make a lot of sense for setting up the back half of SA.
In regards to Kaladin, there is a quote for WOR, during when he's jailed after challenging Amaram where he's like "I'm never going to be in a prison again, I'd rather die". And it seems like were setting up some sort of fixing the oathpact, which is functionally a prison for the heralds, in SA5. IDK where that arc will go, but it seems to me that's setting up some sort of payoff.
I'm almost crying at the thought of Kal having a Doctor Who-esque "I don't want to go" type moment while he's dying
Merry Christmas guys!
Here are a couple of my theories:
1. When it comes to the contest, whoever the champions are, I think they have to represent both sides well, and they as people have to have a personal connection with each other. The fight would not be as compelling if the champions were Kal abd Taravangion, as they have little to no page time together. Following this logic, we can match champions. If Dalinar is a champion, his opponent could be Taravangion, his grandson Gavinor, or anyone else he has some personal connection to. The same goes for Kal, Szeth, Adolin or whoever.
2. Shallan's mom is definitely a Herald. Not only does Chana look like her, but I heard that Sanderson has confirmed that Taln did not break, though this could just be a rumor.
3. I think Kal, Dalinar, and Adolin will definitely die (or leave Roshar somehow). I like your theory about him becoming like Zahel, but I feel that Kal would not resign himself to that. Dalinar is becoming a Fused and maybe will be a main villain in the second half. I think that this would be one of the most heart-wrenching things we readers could experience, so yay! 😂
4. I have to say, I hated the child champ theory, but Richard, I think you just convinced me. If it does happen, I hope it's as you say.
5. Also, wild one here: Adolin becomes Odium's champion and faces off with either Kaladin or Dalinar. There's a little evidence to this. Dalinar's vision of Odium's champion is something like this: "A man in black Shardplate, with nine shadows around him. Behind him, a golden light, brilliant and terrible." First off, Adolin has a decent amount of darkness within him, as shown when he killed Sadeas, which never really went anywhere. Secondly, Adolin's name means "Born unto the light." A brilliant but terrible golden light? Third, Adolin at one point sats that he was born under the sign of the Nine. Nine shadows? Fourth, on the cover of each book, on tge left is always some kind of antagonist. WoK had a Parshendi, WoR had Szeth, OB had a Thunderclast, RoW had...Adolin? Is this an odd break in the otherwise brilliant and planned art, or is it forshadowing that Adolin could be a villain? Finally, Adolin has a personal connection to almost all of the main cast.
6. But finally, the theory I love most! In a massive plot twist, Dalinar and Odium worldhop to Earth, and Richard becomes Odium's champion, and Austin becomes Dalinar's. Richard, corrupted by Voidlight and fueled by general intolerance of the world, brings his knowledge of WoT to the table and combines Surgebinding with the One Power! Austin, newly elected Windrunner captain, and his spren Red, must face off with his old frenemy using Surgebinding enhanced with Red Rising tech and Last Airbender Fire-bending. The Contest of Champions has come! May the best geek win!
Maybe my favorite end twist to a comment ever lolol. Richard and I dueling to the death is fitting - also love your thoughts and have never heard of the Adolim theory!! This is all making me thinkg
"Richard 2ToRamble, Dickless of Shinovar, wore blue the day he was to record a podcast"
I completely agree with that meta take on Kaladin.
I dislike baby theory because it's kind of a cop out? But my belief is that we'll have a fairly dark but actually a non character death ending where Dalinar fights Nale and loses, but it leads to something like Taln becoming fully lucid for a bit and pushing the enemy back again before they can capitalise on it.
Imagine some variation of a Dalinar, Adolin, Kaladin, Szeth road trip across the cosmere. Maybe add Kelsier on top. That'd be the most awesome road trip ever.
I don't like the baby theory either. I also don't think Taravangian would do it because he would kill the child no questions asked so to him picking a baby wouldn't be smart because there is the tiniest possibility that they would kill the baby and get the easy win.
@@inkerstheprune2214 Yep. I think Taravangian has found a win win situation, somehow where even a loss for him is a victory. In one way he's already won in the sense that the status quo with regards him and all of his fused being sealed is completely shattered.
Happy Holidays to my favorite TH-camrs!
Ahhh! Happy Holidays to you!
Just finished Rhythm of War for the first time. I do think it's interesting how all of the male characters seem like they're destined to die, and the women are likely to live. I'm curious if Sanderson will recognize this and try to Red Herring us
Great video! So many good theories for SA 5. I will say I both love and hate the baby champion theory. I also did not consider how many characters may die in the next book and after listening to this episode I think a lot of them are not making it.
Same! I (austin) love and dont love the theory. But yes. Adolin is so dead and we’re not prepared
So here is my predictions:
Odium wins as it would be a waste to build up the fact Taravangian is now Odium in the previous book.
Kaladin will become Honor. He is after all the Son of Tanavast, according to the Stormfather, the sliver of Honor. All of his life is regarding honor. Even when he wanted to break his oath to protect in killing Elokar, he wanted to do it in a way that would be honorable. Killing when the king had a chance to live. An honorable fight as it were.
Dalinar will become fused, but will still hear 'unite them' at the back of his mind, for he is destined to unite still. Not nations and people, but the shards of Adonalsium himself. I mean, he already has 3 that are strongly connected to him. Odium via the Thrill, Honor with the Stormfather and his own sense of honor, Cultivation through her mendling. Alongside that, he also represents Preservation as he wanted to do his best to preserve the kingdom of Alethkar. Dominion from the way he leads, never able to share responsibility. Devotion to doing what is right, be it following the almighty or his own conciounse. Ruin, well... look at what he did as the Blackthorn. He even has Virtuosity through his facination with the Way of Kings.
Shallan is unclear, but I think she would revive the spren she killed before along with Adolin and Maya. He wont be a radiant, but he would be a knight of some form. This could bring forth the option of having other blades being restored, like Oathbringer.
Renarin would probably have to take a form of a leader, I believe. I believe that would be true for him because while it wasnt set up, it is both his expectation as the son of a High Prince but also as a way to stand up to the expectation of both Adolin, Dalinar and what he wanted from himself. He always said he wanted to fight like his father and brother, but they are not just warriors or soldiers, but leaders. In addition, Adolin doesnt really want to become a leader. Sure, he does want to lead his house, but he never gave off that he truly desired that role, especially when the option was given to him to become a king.
With Jasnah, I dont really think she would change much, aside from one thing. While she is clearly atheist and set on her beliefs, I do think some of her beliefs about life would change. She is mostly about logic and brutal truth and while she does have a heart, it is only about people around her like Dalinar and Renarin. She still has to have more heart than mind, less about following your head. She needs more of that for certain and that would likely be her arc in the future. I also think that it would also change the way she views her atheism. I still dont think she would have faith in deity, but it would come from a different place and reasoning.
Unite them.. anyone else believe it's the shards, unite the shards and recreate adonulsium (pardon the spelling)
Merry Christmas Austin and Richard❤ Once I am current on the cosmere I will be sure to come back to this video
Merry Christmas!!
Roshar and the Mistborns are going to be going to war against each other and Dalinar will probably have a role to play in that same as Kel.
The looming threat or one of them that will make Lift more important will be the everstorm probably which will in my guess be something like the Weeping where no more high storms come around and no stormlight exists, lift would then be the most important character at the start of SA 2, and off world people bringing in investiture from other worlds would become a huge thing on Roshar which would also probably help ignite the war I previously mentioned.
Wit is going to be Odium's champion. It explains the end scene with him. And, Dalinar and Odium "choose" a champion. Nothing about the champion having to agree to it. If odium wins or loses he's stuck in the system, but if they don't fight (because there is no time limit for the duel just when it starts). Hoid can't die and also can't fight.
Kaladin will ascend. I believed that since I read Way of kings
20:50
The problem I have with the Gavinor theory is that the sides must choose a WILLING champion. They also state that the SPIRIT of the agreement must be held up as much as the letter, or else Odium will risk killing himself. Taravangian would absolutely be willing to make an underhanded play like that, BUT he would be taking advantage of a four-year-old’s lack of understanding, which could in no reasonable world be seen as choosing a consenting champion AND, if it were to play out, would create a massive plot hole as we will be asking ourselves, “If Odium can just stretch and break this rule, why has he been operating within any kinds of restrictions at all?”
A couple things one the Rayse was the one who claimed he would follow the spirit of the agreement which put him in a bind that would put him in a dangerous position if he toyed around. Taravangian did not. Two willing does not mean the person has to be omnipotent about what they are agreeing to. They can still be tricked it’s just more difficult. Lastly Gavinor already has a connection with Odium and the unmade so I could see that being a connection Taravangian would use.
Merry Christmas🎄!
Merry Christmas!
Also, I believe Adoline creates a new order of Radiants: The Reoathed
Love it
This is just makes me so excited for the book to come out. I've already figured out when I'm planning on rereading the books before the release.
Oo how far in advanced will you start?
@@2ToRamble The plan so far is 1 book/month starting in August
1 year later, that intro aged like fine wine.
SPOILER!!
They were both right lmao.
Would LOVE for
U guys to review wind and Truth in 5 sections for all 5 parts - have predictions for what happens in the next part, etc
We were thinking the same thing!
Alright here goes my predictions. Adolin is champion but dies before duel, Szeth comes in as a sub. Odium picks baby champion (Gavinor), dalinar steps in and contest is over and deal broken. Odium wins. End of part 3. Then 4 and 5 is the "endgame." I'm not sure how the heroes will win but I know they will and Dalinar will take up Odium's shard, and more or less "retire" and be effectively written out of the main story for a time. Shallan goes worldhopping because she has nothing left tying her to Roshar since Adolin is dead. Kaladin takes up Dalinar's role, he and Jasnah have a political marriage to appease other highprinces of Kaladin taking over. I don't see how Kaladin can take over without it all blowing up unless he was given authority politically as well.
Happy Christmas!!
You guys have some amazing theories
Moash is really making some bad choices. He keeps making bad choices. I don't necessarily consider him evil, but all of his choices seem to be aligned with evil. He's already killed King Elokhar, the King of Heralds, and Teft and his spren. I wonder if he will be Odium's champion. I agree that he seems more of a pawn. Still, I wonder if he will get a redemption arc.
I was always thinking that Dalinar's champion would be Kaladin. But as I was going through book 3, it seems like Odium wanted Dalinar to be his champion. And that was a wild scene.
I have never been so unbearably excited for a book release. My biggest wish for book 5 is seeing someone swear the 5th ideal. Preferably kaladin. Also i really really really hope Kaladin doesn't die. I could barely cope with how sad ROW was.
Edit 1: The multi personality thing isn't done yet. The Veil and Formless personalities are gone but Radiant still exists. I think the Radiant personality also needs to be disolved and that will be part of her climax or arc of this book.
Edit 2: Richard should definitely look at the Shallan's mother herald theory closer. Its extremely convincing the point were i would almost want to say its a given.
Edit 3: I think Dalinar is absolutley dead by the end of this book. I think Navani will kind of take his place as the leader of the knights radiant. I do wonder who the last bondsmith will be.
And Today Brandon Announces that he Finished the First Draft of the Book
just the video i wanted, thanks for the info on "Wind and Truth" 😃
Kaladin: honestly, he could go either way and be satisfying, but I’m leaning towards him living because of the “I always live. Everyone I love dies, but I always live.” I think it’s gonna happen again.
Shallan: I do think her mom is Chana. I think that being her fifth ideal (wish washy numbers, fourth? To which Spren? Who knows) is a good argument for it, too. And it would hit hard.
Syl: while I think it’s theoretically possible for a Spren to become a shard, I don’t think it matches the theme of the cosmere, ie, humans given the powers of gods. I think if anyone Ascends, it will be Dalinar or Kaladin, they are the two who have been exploring most intimately what it means to be honor.
Dalinar: I vacillate on this. He’ll either become a fused or Honor (or Unity, or perhaps something like a splinter of Honor’s purposes?)
I have no theories on the champion, but I think that there’s a meta argument for Szeth as Odium’s because of the setup with Taravangian early on, with Kaladin for Dalinar. They are traveling together for the first part of the book, so it could be cool narratively and thematically to set that up there, as well.
Oh, Renarin, Lift, and jasnah def live. And I think they’re super important for how this books plays out, I just don’t know how.
Overall, I can’t wait. I’m gonna cry, I just know it. But I plan on going to DS24, too, so I’ll see you there.
Youre right, that is the only predictable thing - we will all have tears of some sort 👨🍳
13:40 I don’t think nightblood defends against foresight, I think just renarin does. Nightblood was seen as odiums weakness in his foresight, not invisible
Yeah, Kaladin is 100% going to die or become a herald imo. I’ve been saying it for years. My personal big theory has been that they will try to reform the Oathpact to get a reprieve but something goes terribly wrong and Kaladin sacrifices himself to be the only herald on Braize to try to give the humans a chance to regroup. I think the death rattle “the burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh almighty, release me” probably (most likely) refers to Taln, but maybe it can be referring to Kaladin.
I also think Dalinar is going to die. Maybe Adolin as well. I also think the champion may be Oroden, Kaladin’s little brother, because of the death rattle “I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who love wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.”
Also, the concept of “reforming honor” keeps coming up, I REALLY don’t like it. Odium’s whole plan is to shatter all the shards until it’s just him left (well, OLD Odium’s plan). Very large stakes there. If a shard can be reformed, the stakes of that is basically out the window. Mere humans can REFORM a SHARD? It’s just so silly. What difference does it make if a shard is broken if it can just be reformed? No, I really don’t like it.
Love how we start the video off knee-deep in crem!
At some point they're going to bring Honor back to life. It'll require some sacrifice from Dalinar and Stormdad, and involve the honourblades and dawnshards, and the vessel will end up being either Dal, Kal or Szeth...
Could definitely see this!
Ishar didn't chip Nightblood; it was actually the other way around-Nightblood chipped Ishar's Honorblade.
What if dalinar unites the fractions of honor that are in the hearts of men, ascends and becomes honor, chooses to be the champion himself, and then verses Odium himself, then they destroy each other and the shards get dropped, someone picks up both shards together creating a fusion of the two which is called something like Vengence. What if that was Taravangians whole plan from the start, and he was actually looking well beyond the scope of just the Rosharin system.
Hey! I really like the theory of Shallan's lineage and her moving to the rest of the Cosmere. I really hope Adolin and Kal survive.
One theory I saw in Reddit was that Oroden and Gavinor are gonna grow up and try to live up to the expectations of being related to heroes and kings. I'd really like them to join Orders we haven't seen much of like Stonewards, Dustbringer, willshaper.
Oo nice
If someone was to Sacrifice themselves for Kaladin, then that would mean the cycle continues. He is always the one that lives.
I think El is Taravodium's champion. That chapter where El kills the Pursuer feels like a good foreshadowing for the next major villain.
20:46 What copy of the books have you been reading to make you think that Szeth would be in any way okay with that outcome.
On the dragon steel con Q&A they the second half of the series would be five different viewpoints of a new event. What if they don’t have the contest of champions in this book at all, and the contest of champions is the prologue of the last five books from five different perspectives
O shoot, interesting theory but a part of me cant wait that long to see this duel !
Guy in the blue had a scotoma before this interview - I'm also not convinced he's read the books recently...my guy has some decent takes but DUDE, you're way off...the only hot take I was remotely interested in was Syl POTENTIALLY becoming Honor ("Honor lives in the heart of men," holla), but it's laughable to think Kaladin dies before taking the 5th oath AND his last name is f'kn STORMblessed, in the STORMlight archive. Like, his story arch is FARRRRR from over..it'd be like George R.R. Martion killing Jon Snow in book 2...ain't gon' happen my guy!
Jasnah had an illness when young and is a genius from childhood. Does that have anything to do with the old magic? If so, any theories from that?
The only thing I don't like about the theory that Chana is Shallan's mother is that the Heralds are Cognitive Shadows and we know from Warbreaker that Cognitive Shadows on Nalthis can't reproduce so I doubt that it's any different on Roshar.
The bet should be: you should buy a whole complete leather bond cosmere books set for the other person.
👀👀👀
What scares me is how Kal is a religious figure for the people. When they started painting his forehead markings on, I thought “oh no oh no we know how worshiped figures get treated in the Cosmere.” I don’t think I’d recover to read about Kal dying. I’m hoping that he and syl ascend to become Honor.
Kal will have to accept protection (fifth ideal), but it’ll be the Stormfather (who has come around on Kaladin) and it would result, with Syl nearby, in the reunification of Honor through the help of Bondsmith Dalinar. Just my guess.
I really enjoy your podcast guys, I love hearing you about books, I got into Red Rising partially because of your podcast. I just wanted to comment that we all see Faithful and The Fallen in the top shelf behind you, I was wondering if you are planning on doing a podcast on them, is a series I been looking to get into, I share a lot of opinions with you guys I wanted to hear your thoughts about the series and I am sure It would get good reception. Thanks for your wonderful content
Thanks for the kind words! We dont have any immediate plans to do so, but will eventually get to the series - sorry we’re so iffy on the timeline, just dont want to promise something and not deliver
You guys r my favorite podcast period. So funny and interesting. But now I’m stressed for Adolin
Thank you too kind, and dont worry were stressing TOGETHER 😭
The bet should be some sort of merchandising at dragon steel like the winner gets a human size shard blade
Ooo
So about Shallan's multiple personalities, I think it's important to mention who Sanderson brought on for his beta readers in Rhythm of War. At least one of his betas has Dissociative Personality Disorder, DID, and helped coax him into a better understanding and more respectful perspective on a real world topic that is usually written incorrectly in media. The decision to have one of Shallan's alters integrate into Shallan's main alter is a tough decision in its own right, since everyone with DID has their own unique experience.
As a lesson in mental health awareness, Sanderson gets an A+ from me.
I mean... what characters that die? Sanderson is iconic for not actually killing off people, at least not until the end of the entire story.
Also, Elhokar wasn't really being set up to die until that actual book began. So there's plenty of room in parts 1 and 2 to set up Jasnah's death in part 4 to be tragic.
Whatever the bet is, I doubt it can be done at the Dragonsteel convention because the book will be released on December 6th and the convention is from December 6th to 8th... I imagine a strange convention where everyone is there, but with little to no interaction because everybody is reading the book :D
Jasnah is an atheist like the Witches from Discworld. The gods are self-evidently real, but that's no reason to go around believing in them. Do you "believe" in your table? Do you hold a ritual every week where you praise it? Oh great and noble table, without which we would surely be eating lunch off our knees?
Haha great point
I’m used to Reddit where the unpopular theories get downvoted to heck so it’s refreshing to hear some well thought out and fairly original takes that aren’t all the same ones we hear all the time! It was a blast listening to you guys.
My big theory is this: I agree that the contest of champions will happen around the end of part 3 (about half way through) and after winning, Dalinar will be forced to and succeed in killing all the knights radiant (or at least all the Bridgemen.)
BUT!!
Dalinar’s entire purpose is to Unite them, correct? And Kaladin’s entire story in Rhythm of War was basically setting up group therapy so that the trauma could be handled better as a group and people weren’t made to handle things alone? And we’ve had so many teases about Dalinar’s powers as a bond smith and how he’s yet to realize the full potential?
So my real theory is that Dalinar, knowing Taravangian is sneaky, will have the back up plan for when he inevitably loses the contest. This will include forging an entirely new bond, similar to the oathpact, among his most loyal and trusted soldiers (Bridge 4). When these soldiers die after the contest is lost, they will then be transported to Braize, the home base of the Fused, similar to how the Heralds were. Only now, Bridge 4 is equipped with Anti void light weapons and they can open up some kind of oathgate back to Roshar, letting the entire Knights Radiant army back to Braize where they can wipe out Odiums army once and for all, undisturbed by Odium since he’s still bound to Roshar.
Anyway it’s a bit of fan fiction at this point, but seems like a logical epic scale ending to have the entire final battle take place at Braize where the full army of the knights radiant can take on the full army of the Fused and bad radiants
Love the thoughts!! Seeing Braize would me amazing
MOASCH- Taravingian renegs on his predecessors promise to take Moash's pain, so Moasch has to face himself, and DOES - redemption arc
The Honor spren coming back together and reforming honor could be the reason Sigzil is no longer a Windrunner in Sunlit.
Nightblood didn't block the future it was interference from Renarin's ability to view the future. His presence nearby made it hard for Odium to see the future of anyone in that area.
I really don't know how Sanderson is gonna pull it off, but I'm worried. The way I see it, it's gonna be hard to actually get a satisfying ending. If the good guys win through the contest, it feels a bit too easy imo. If they lose, it will feel like a cliffhanger and a downer (kinda like Empire Strikes Back or Avengers: Infinity War) that will pick up 10 years later when Stormlight 6 is released and won't feel like a satisfying ending to this arc. Tbh I feel like it was a bad move on Sanderson's part to announce on before hand that it's gonna be two arcs with a time jump of a few years. Takes away al suspension. He even announced who the flashback characters will be, so you can safely asume those characters will survive the first arc.