Hey guys! Just wanted to say: sorry about the bad audio mixing on this one, and thanks to everyone who's pointing it out. I'm not sure how I didn't notice it, but I'll be sure to make myself easier to hear next time around. 🙂
I think the fifth ideal of the Windrunners being something along the lines of "I decide who is worthy of protection" fits a lot better in the sense that it has similar connotations to "I am the law," it's the same kind of statement, and from a narrative standpoint it means that Kaladin's arc can conclude with him realizing that Moash is beyond redemption. It also seems like a natural escalation from the idea that he can't protect everyone
This is another great idea! I definitely see it being something along those lines - and I like the idea of it tying into Kal's relationship with Moash.
Maybe a good phrasing of this is "there will be those I should not protect" along the lines of his fourth oath "I accept that there will be those I can not protect"
This is the theory I believe as well. I actually think there will be a situation where Kaladin can rescue Moash from something knowing if he does things will go badly for others and will have to choose not to protect him.
I think the 5th ideal of windrunners will be “I accept I cannot save those who will not save themselves.” This will be his acceptance that mosh cannot be saved because he has chosen not to be.
I think that maben is less a world hopper, and more of a cameo for brandons assistants. He has said multiple times that his works are a group effort and has said almost same thing at every acknowledgements. And so, the line about victory overshadowing common folk is a way to say thanks to his team. Although it would be much more exciting if she was a world hopper
I actually quite like this idea! Although usually when Brandon incorporates members of his team into the books, he doesn't make it a secret: like how a bunch of the members of Bridge 4 are named after team members.
I like this, but the way the Ideals seem to work is that the further a KR progresses in their Ideals, the more they embody those Ideals. Each oath they swear they "will" follow an Ideal by the fifth oath they are the Ideal. If I were to take a stab at the fifth Windrunner Ideal I'd guess it be something along the lines of, "I protect those that I can."
@@sonowbrand7824 I would like the 5th ideal to be more in line with thr 5th skybreaker ideal, something like "I am the Bastion/Shield/Guardian" I think of the Windrunners as honorbound protectors. Would be cool if they take on a role similar to MISTBORN ERA2 / STORMLIGHT 4/5 SPOILER the ghostbloods on scadrial.
Kaladins father said in the First book: there are people who rescue and people who kill. Kaladins response was: And people who kill to rescue. I think the 5th ideal will go in this direction
I think this is just the second ideal again. Killing people to protect others has never been a real issue for Kaladin. Like sure he'd prefer to end things as peacefully as possible but he's a soldier and accepts what that means. The one time he really questioned it was more trying to figure out Syl's logic for why killing Listeners was ok with her.
@@mateodoris6856 and what else would be a better final secret Shallan is hiding from herself than she is the reason a herald was sent back & broke & caused the Desolation
So I quite like this theory, and I especially would love the foreshadowing in the first line of Shallan's flashbacks - "The world ended and Shallan was to blame." - if it turns out to be true. But I do think that Brandon has already done the "Shallan has hidden secrets about her past that are causing her immense trauma, and has to acknowledge them" storyline to death, and it would get kind of old if it happened again. I mean, what's next? Are we going to find out that Shallan shattered Adonalsium as well? The poor girl needs a break. Anyway, I didn't cover that theory in this video because it seems to be pretty well known already. Perhaps I could make a video about it in the future if people are interested, though.
Just wanted to say you're one of my favorite up-and-coming TH-cam channels. Can't wait to be able to say I was a fan before you blew up because it's going to happen.
If the Skybreakers 5th Ideal is "I am the Law" Then Kaladin´s should be along the lines of "I am the Shield of those in need" or something like that? Usually Oaths are shorter than what people have theorized them out to be. But wouldn´t it be kind of poetic if insted it was something different? What IF... WHAT IF! Windrunners are all about protecting people and the responsability of it and the emotional sideeffects of failling to save people. But when people see a Windrunner comming to them? What do they FEEL when they KNOW they will be saved but those who have sworn to protect? *HOPE* Kaladin´s 5th Ideal will be _"I am HOPE"_ The same words Kelsier spoke infront of the Lord Ruler before his death Probably Kaladin´s last words aswell?
That would be really interesting if the story went that way. Reminds me of how Vin inadvertently swears the Second Windrunner Ideal - or something very similar - in one scene (I believe in the Well of Ascension.)
Dude, putting "subscribe or Hoid will personally show up at your home and insult you" at the end of your video has the opposite effect you want it to have!😂There are few things I would love more than for that to actually happen!
Hello. I know this is old but i think i figured out the 5th ideal. Kaladin has learned to protect the ones who cannot do it by themselves, the ones he hate and through his duel he learned there are some people he cannot protect. So what its left? I think its himself. The fifth ideal its "I accept I can/deserve be protected" and then the bridge four (or some members) sacrifice for him. And it makes perfect sense since you cannot say this words without accepting first there are people who cannot be saved/protected/will die. What you think?
I really like the idea of each order of knights radiant "becoming" something. An early idea I had for the windrunners' fifth ideal was something like "I am that which cannot be killed, for it lives in the hearts of men... I am honor." I don't think that it will be anything close to this anymore, but it sounds cool to me :)
In regard of the fifth ideal of the windrunners I couldn't help but think in the phrase: "I am who decide who lives". I think is such an strong statement and also so horrifying if said by someone like Taravangian, but at the same time more worthy of an epic scene if said by Kaladin (in a more positive light). I am aware that they probably aren't the words, but anyways I wanted to share.
1. I agree that Maben isn't a kandra. A kandra would be of the average height, because she'd have local bones. She might be a Forger, because her eyes aren't mentioned as strange, which means she's got epicanthic (sp?) fold. Only non-Roshar place I remember seeing them is that part of Sel where Shai is from. 2. I reeeally doubt Brandon would give Kaladin an arc of becoming an utilitarian... or anyone, for that matter. 3. Makes a lot of sense.
Specifically Kaladin though. The windrunners' answer to the trolly problem is already known: they believe that it is not moral to kill 1 innocent to save many.
@@jacksonmagas9698 Funnily, they seem to be in agreement with the Skybreakers in that, despite the fact that the 2 orders are usually rivals. In most legal systems it is illegal to kill someone unless they are directly attacking someone, even if killing them would save others. Or maybe the Skybreakers' real answer would be "it's illegal to tie people to trolley tracker" lol
everyone knows the 5th ideal is "ill see what I can do". but going from format, it is more likely "I am protection", or" i will protect myself", or" i am worthy of being protected"
7:45 that fifth ideal will be contradicting the first one (and the most important, the one that makes him a radiant) so it doesn't have any sense. I think that ideal could be something like "sometimes I am goint to be the one who's gonna have to be protected" or something like that
I'd be interested in what you think about the Chana Davar theory. I laughed at first but... ugh, it's so convincing, especially after the prologue to Stormlight 5...
...Late to the party but i think Maben makes more sense as a Ghostblood spy. In the sunlit man we see that scadrians like the aproach of passive observation and information gathering, she fits the build and I think her "sneakinness" sounds a lot like emotional alomancy. Manipulating peoples emotions to make it so no one feels like paying attention to her
I don't know anything about this series. I've watched a couple of your videos related to it. I've watched one video by someone explaining the core of the magic system (something about this world, wrapped around a reality of conceptions, wrapped around a core of ideal versions of things). As you can see, I don't understand that very well either. But gosh is it fun to casually hear "Maybe she's a condra." without having ANY idea what that means. (Did I even spell it right?) It's surprisingly fun to listen to a somewhat incomprehensible deep dive into something I know almost nothing about. :D
With the new book being worked on, i've been scouring the internet for decent channels and yours def popped up, Keep it up! I would like to suggest maybe taking some inspiration for your video edits from two different channels. One is called Narc, his videos are about completely different things, but I think it can showcase what smaller channels can also do.
So far a lot of the ideals have had slight twists and departures from the previous and some of them require significant character growth to swear/accept. Some of them could even be considered replacements of the previous ones (ie: the Skybreakers moving from following an ideal/law/person, to going on a crusade to finally becoming their own ideal/law) and all of them are more one specific look at/aspect of morals, self-improvement and philosophy than a comprehensive look at them. I think it would be plausible for the fifth Windrunner ideal to be something along the lines of sacrifice sometimes being necessary which also go along with the Skybreaker ideal being a statement that can be really dangerous in the wrong hands but that could also be very helpful if used by people who should by then have proven that they're extremely unlikely to misuse it.
Agree with the last theory especially when the next 5 years is stormlight 5, then mistborn era 3, followed by elantris 2 and 3 as pallete cleansers before he dives into the back 5 SLA
That being Kals 5th ideal would be a nice contrast to Todiums goal of saving everyone and being willing to do anything to do it. Especially interesting if Kal becomes Honor as it is possible Tanavast did the exact opposite of the ideal you said
I think Kaladin's Ffth will go something like this: The Devil whisppered in his ear "You cannot withstand the storm." The warrior replied, "I am the storm."
Thinking along similar lines, my wager is on "I am the wind" or "I am honor" (which would be ironic given his Honor is Dead, but I'll see what I can do moment)
Very cool theories and I love your explanations! I didn't watch the third one because I haven't read Elantris yet. But what do you think of Kaladin's mother? I can't quite come up with a full theory but doesn't she seem out of place as well? She's uncharacteristically open-minded, is the mother of 2 radiants, very emotionally mature and balanced, and content with her life even when it was objectively hard. I don't know. She may just be a great regular person but there's something different about her.
Personally, I really lean towards the theory that the fifth ideal is something along the lines of not protecting those who don't want protection. 2 and 3 were about when _to_ protect, and now 4 was kind of when _not_ to protect. I feel like 5 will be along the same lines. Sort of granting agency and freedom to those who don't want a windrunner looking over their shoulder all the time, but want to be their own person/spread their wings of fly. Idk, that's my take. Looking forward to whatever it ends up being!
The fourth ideal is about accepting failure not giving up. The fifth ideal might be “I accept that there are those who don’t want to be protected. I will protect them anyway”
Great video. I'd just point out that your audio mixing could be fine-tuned a bit. Like at 3:56 where the piano is pretty distracting (both because that part is very percussive and because it's very loud) :)
Regarding the fifth ideal, we know that Brandon *heavily* foreshadows Kals oaths throughout the books. His constant hatred of light eyes lead to his 3rd. His slave brands and constant reminders of those he's failed foreshadowed his 4th. And there is nothing else in his story that has been foreshadowed as much as his argument with his father about killing to protect. I have theorized that his 5th will be that he cannot kill to protect. If it was the opposite (sacrifice some to save others) is just how he's been living anyway. Killing Parshendi to save bridge 4. Fighting and trying to kill Szeth and Moash to save his friends/employers. Killing fused (and the singers they will kill to inhabit) to save radiants. For him to progress, he needs to change his ways so that he doesn't kill people.
Yes but he's conflicted about killing. There's the scene in WoR where it's a flashback to his training in Amarams army, someone telling him it's okay, lots of people freeze up, not sure if they're able to kill, and after Kal thinks it was the opposite, in that moment he realizes he COULD someone to save another, and that scared him. He's learned to protect, he's learned to forgive himself for those he couldn't save. Now he has to forgive himself for those he has no choice but to fight.
I like the theory that the 5th ideal is actually the same for each order, and there is a symmetry to the ideals, like in how the first ideal is broad and means different things to different people the final ideal will be hard to say for different reasons..
The Jaddeth is Autonomy theory is good, and that WoB of him seems to confirm it. But I have had a different theory for a while. In Arcanum Unbounded, Khriss mentions that because of the two dead shards in the Cognitive Realm, the planet of Sel itself has become incredibly Invested. This is why all of the magic systems seem to be related to geography. She theorizes that Sel has started to become self-aware, like a spren. In Elantris, it's mentioned that Jaddeth was originally an old god that was associated with the planet, that got coopted by Shu-Dereth. I think that Jaddeth is actually the planet itself, somehow communicating with Wyrn.
Okay, this would also be really cool. It would especially be a nice bait-and-switch if Sanderson leads us to think the Autonomy theory is true, and it turns out to be something more like this.
Ya know, i do not believe that jaddeth was originally written as an avatar of autonomy, but even so, I believe as he expanded the cosmere he thought about ways to connect it, but that question very well could have been the moment he decided to do it in Elantris 2.
Great video! Here is what some random stranger on the internet thinks about the 3 theories: 1. I completely forgot this character existed, and while I would like it to be true... I don't know, it strikes me as a bit too obscure to work as a reveal later on because no-one remembers her / cares that much. Totally plausible though. 2. Honestly I have no idea about this one. Maybe correct, maybe not, I'd prefer to RAFO myself for the emotional kick to it 3. I was watching that live and I kinda did a big "ohhhhhhh of course it's true, how did I not see that before" moment - yeah whoever thought of this is way more observant than me. Awesome job! P.S. Now all I can think about is where else has Autonomy managed to permeate her influence? Is Austre (the one goddess who Idrians worship and hate colours or something on Nalthis) an avatar? What about someone on Threnody? How about on Roshar, with one of those weird deities they have lying around like the Moons or the Purelakers' gods? Screw it, while I'm at it, why not in Silverlight? The White Sand sequel is sure going to be interesting if it ever gets written...
I am the defender of the just -- more active and down-to-earth. And I like that trick with holding on your expression as the audio track moves to "so yeah." It's all in the little things..
Oh I have some wild out-there theories. Like, Nightblood is heading the Night Brigade. Also they have the Dawnshard of Destruction. Also there is a Dawnshard of Destruction.
This might be cus I've read quite a bit of LNs with depressed messiah/hero complex MCs, but the 5th ideal might be something along the lins of "I'll love myself." It could be "I'll forgive myself" or "I'll protect myself" or something too. The idea being, protecting others is great, but self care and love etc is as if not more important. This is a common theme among thr depressed hero complex stories I've read.
Kaladin's 3rd oath was "protect those whom I hate as long as it is right". But what is right? Windrunners are about morality and protection, so the 5th ideal might be about defining what's right to do.
I personally think Rlain is the kandra on Roshar. In WoR he goes back to Narak and when he meets B4 again he is on Warform, and in RoW it is reveald that the listeners use trapped spren to change to warform. How did he change to warform if most listeners where already in Stormform?. Maybe someone else thought about this but idk Pls forgive any spelling mistake
Omg. I didn't even put together the fact that Autonomy having an Avatar on Sel explains how she got all of the purified investiture for the shardpool in TLM.
I think it will be more likely the 5th ideal is "I will sacrifice myself to protect those who don't deserve it." Which is the only way Moash is getting saved.
Also, Maben gave him JAM! the food of betrayal in the stormlight archives. not really any ground to stand on, but if it happens twice, it's going to be hilarious.
Why do people hate on Warbreaker and Elantris? (and I'm going to get attacked for this hot take) I liked both of those books so much more than any of the Mistborn books. I daresay Mistborn is my least liked Cosmere property which kind of bums me out because he writes SO much more in that world than anywhere else.
maben could also be a windrunner or another truthless explaining her status as servant and ability to get to and from shinovar to get jams for terevangian... if there was a known perpendicularity or one is revealed to be in shinovar then the jams from shinovar would definitely be "chekhov's gun" for her being a world hopper. re reading that passage the mention of jams from shinovar seems like the kind of bread crumb Brandon could callback to in a later story to have her be a worldhopper or something more than just a servant.
Maybe Autonomy is awful at making up names so she’s been naming all of her avatars after random people from Taldain. Honestly this seems like something we’re only going to get an answer to if we ever get a white sand 2 or whatever.
Can't wait for an avatar named "Kenton" to show up somewhere. Or... WAIT, WHAT IF THE KRISS WHO WRITES THE ARS ARCANA IS JUST AN AVATAR NAMED AFTER THE ORIGINAL KHRISS FROM WHITE SAND???
For the Windrunner Fifth Ideal I don’t think it’ll be about sacrificing people for the greater good so much as killing for the greater good. Sacrifice implies that the person dying is innocent, whereas this wording would mean coming to terms with killing as a means of protecting the innocent from evil people. I agree that Kaladin being OK with sacrificing innocents would probably not be where Brandon wants to take his arc, but I could certainly see his arc becoming him deciding who lives and who dies in the same way that the Skybreaker Fifth Ideal is deciding what is just and unjust. In the end it’s a very fine distinction, but an important one.
For the 5th what about "I will protect myself so I can protect others" or "I will protect myself" considering he is so self sacrificing and even was going to end himself? The only person he doesn't seem to be willing to protect is himself. As someone whos always hated existing at ALL I chose to stay no matter what so that I can be there for those around me who need me. Maybe I'm projecting a little -_-
What about the theory of the technicality. It say that when they organize the duel of champions, Dalinar says "if we win..." but not specify nothing about a tie. Sorry for the bad English, it's not my first language
Funny when you were talking about Maben maybe but probably not being a Kandra, while M'rall is right therein the same scene with a LOT of texual evidence he's likely a Kandra
To do with the Maven series, spoiler warning for the mistborn Wax and Wayne series, she cant be a Kandra, we know Cephadrious goes to Scadrial because of something on Roshar to do with odium so there wouldnt be a kandra on Roshar yet, right? Or do I have my timelines wrong.
Interesting theories to be sure. But I have to ask you, do you believe it he Shallan/Chanarac/Mishram theory? This seems to be the most interesting yet divisive theory in the entire fandom. I personally do hby?
My favorite is that Calamity from The Reckoners is the shard of Indolence. I know Brando says that no book with Earth in it is part of the Cosmere; but he's changed his mind on things before.
I don't think intentional sacrifice would be the 5th ideal. It seems the theme of windrunners and the stormfather are heavily entwined. There are a few passages when the stormfather tries explaining to Dalinar that he can't stop the everstorms and the destruction they bring. That even manipulating them goes against what he is. Considering windrunners are bonded to wind spren it seems likely that the 5th ideal would be pushing them closer to a level of indifference if not acceptance at the destruction they must cause. Something more generic than sacrifice. Something like "I will destruct whatever obstructs me". Terrible for a normal person with bad morals. But if you are already on this path of saving people and have proven yourself in that path, then whatever is obstructing you will inherently be immoral or it wouldn't be an obstruction. Could even be more sinister. "I will not try to save everyone"
Isn't saving lives no matter what also kind of utilitarian? I don't think that the 5th ideal being about how sometimes there are things more important than saving as many lives as possible, that sometimes there are things that are worth the loss of some lives, would mean that the 5th ideal is all about becoming a utilitarian. Utilitarianism isn't the only ideology under which loss of life is sometimes justifiable, far from it.
Hey I love this video but also want to ask... where'd you get that shirt? I kinda want one 👉👈 edit: I think whether or not an edgedancer needs to wipe their butt would depend on when exactly their stool's Identity changes from "part of [edgedancer]" to "I am a poop."
I really don't think the Windrunner's 5th ideal is to sacrifice others. I think the opposite would be true like "I will not harm in order to protect" which goes along with all of that he's been through so far, and I think the real conflit is finding a way in which he may be able to protect instead of killing others. I just feel like sacrificing others seems like the opposite of what he's been learning to do as a Windrunner.
True, but so far a lot of the ideals have has slight twists and departures from the previous (ie: Protect everyone, but later acknowledging that you may not always be able to for Windrunners and first swearing yourself to a codex of Law and then later going on a crusade and finally, becoming the law for Skybreakers) and some of them require significant character growth to swear/accept. I think it would be unlikely to go as far as to state that sacrificing others is a good thing, but I think it may be plausible for it to be something along the lines of sacrifice sometimes being necessary. It would also go along with the Skybreaker ideal being a statement that can be really dangerous in the wrong hands which is intended with the same consideration of the people that reach it being very unlikely to actually misuse it.
That can't be the fifth ideal for the windrunners. It goes too much along the path of "the end justifies the means" which is what the Radiants are against, it is the opposite of "journey before destiny". The whole idea around the Radiants is that they won't do something bad even if it is for the greater good. That idea of "the end justifies the means " is, in fact, what represents Taravangian...
My husband says “Only if we forget to use our powers.” I personally think they still do, but if most edgedancers are like my husband, they probably don’t.
I have this sick... sick feeling. I'm starting to actually believe Kaladin will become Odiums champion. I think there is the possibility that he actually breaks and gets opium to take his pain. What is the what thing Kal struggles with? Death, specifically death of those he cares about. I know what you're thinking, the 4th ideal, he can accept it. What if there was someone he absolutely wouldn't be able to accept. Now, what did book 4 establish? Spren can officially be killed. If Syl were to get killed, that could be the moment that fully breaks Kal. The one person that he literally can't go on with out.
Hey guys! Just wanted to say: sorry about the bad audio mixing on this one, and thanks to everyone who's pointing it out. I'm not sure how I didn't notice it, but I'll be sure to make myself easier to hear next time around. 🙂
Kal’s 5th oath: I AM TRIAGE
Love it
Oh my Adonalsium, I laughed so hard I choked. Why does it make so much sense
"The Cosmere Fandom is one of the most pedantic in existence" and PROUD OF IT!
There was just a theory on r/cosmere about cats
I think the fifth ideal of the Windrunners being something along the lines of "I decide who is worthy of protection" fits a lot better in the sense that it has similar connotations to "I am the law," it's the same kind of statement, and from a narrative standpoint it means that Kaladin's arc can conclude with him realizing that Moash is beyond redemption. It also seems like a natural escalation from the idea that he can't protect everyone
This is another great idea! I definitely see it being something along those lines - and I like the idea of it tying into Kal's relationship with Moash.
Maybe a good phrasing of this is "there will be those I should not protect" along the lines of his fourth oath "I accept that there will be those I can not protect"
In the same vein, I could see it being "I am Justice"
This is the theory I believe as well. I actually think there will be a situation where Kaladin can rescue Moash from something knowing if he does things will go badly for others and will have to choose not to protect him.
I think the 5th ideal of windrunners will be “I accept I cannot save those who will not save themselves.” This will be his acceptance that mosh cannot be saved because he has chosen not to be.
I think that maben is less a world hopper, and more of a cameo for brandons assistants. He has said multiple times that his works are a group effort and has said almost same thing at every acknowledgements. And so, the line about victory overshadowing common folk is a way to say thanks to his team.
Although it would be much more exciting if she was a world hopper
I actually quite like this idea! Although usually when Brandon incorporates members of his team into the books, he doesn't make it a secret: like how a bunch of the members of Bridge 4 are named after team members.
I would be willing to bet that Kaladin has to accept that he needs to be protected. Maybe even from himself.
That could also be really interesting!
I feel like that would be a bit too similar to the 3rd or or 2nd? from our favourite Herdazian
That's what our good pal Teft did, though.
I like this, but the way the Ideals seem to work is that the further a KR progresses in their Ideals, the more they embody those Ideals. Each oath they swear they "will" follow an Ideal by the fifth oath they are the Ideal. If I were to take a stab at the fifth Windrunner Ideal I'd guess it be something along the lines of, "I protect those that I can."
@@sonowbrand7824 I would like the 5th ideal to be more in line with thr 5th skybreaker ideal, something like "I am the Bastion/Shield/Guardian"
I think of the Windrunners as honorbound protectors. Would be cool if they take on a role similar to
MISTBORN ERA2 / STORMLIGHT 4/5 SPOILER
the ghostbloods on scadrial.
Kaladins father said in the First book: there are people who rescue and people who kill. Kaladins response was: And people who kill to rescue. I think the 5th ideal will go in this direction
What's funny because Liran would still be correct about the rest
I think this is just the second ideal again. Killing people to protect others has never been a real issue for Kaladin. Like sure he'd prefer to end things as peacefully as possible but he's a soldier and accepts what that means. The one time he really questioned it was more trying to figure out Syl's logic for why killing Listeners was ok with her.
What we've learned from this video:
All cosmere characters are either Hoid, Shallan, or Autonomy
Also lending credence to the Jaddeth is an avatar of Autonomy theory: Brandon has said that the Elantris sequels need to happen before Mistborn Era 3.
I like the theory that Shallan’s mother is a herald. After the 5th prologue I consider it as close to confirmed as anything not yet canon can be
Agree. The clues fit together too well for it not to be.
@@mateodoris6856 and what else would be a better final secret Shallan is hiding from herself than she is the reason a herald was sent back & broke & caused the Desolation
Chanarach maybe? Red hair
So I quite like this theory, and I especially would love the foreshadowing in the first line of Shallan's flashbacks - "The world ended and Shallan was to blame." - if it turns out to be true. But I do think that Brandon has already done the "Shallan has hidden secrets about her past that are causing her immense trauma, and has to acknowledge them" storyline to death, and it would get kind of old if it happened again. I mean, what's next? Are we going to find out that Shallan shattered Adonalsium as well? The poor girl needs a break.
Anyway, I didn't cover that theory in this video because it seems to be pretty well known already. Perhaps I could make a video about it in the future if people are interested, though.
Yeah prologue 5 turned me from scoffing at Chana Davar theory to basically accepting it as canon.
I think Jaddeth/Autonomy is almost confirmed. I have never thought about the other two theories, but they could be possible.
Just wanted to say you're one of my favorite up-and-coming TH-cam channels. Can't wait to be able to say I was a fan before you blew up because it's going to happen.
Me2
Thanks so much!
If the Skybreakers 5th Ideal is "I am the Law"
Then Kaladin´s should be along the lines of "I am the Shield of those in need" or something like that? Usually Oaths are shorter than what people have theorized them out to be.
But wouldn´t it be kind of poetic if insted it was something different?
What IF... WHAT IF!
Windrunners are all about protecting people and the responsability of it and the emotional sideeffects of failling to save people.
But when people see a Windrunner comming to them? What do they FEEL when they KNOW they will be saved but those who have sworn to protect?
*HOPE*
Kaladin´s 5th Ideal will be _"I am HOPE"_
The same words Kelsier spoke infront of the Lord Ruler before his death
Probably Kaladin´s last words aswell?
That would be really interesting if the story went that way. Reminds me of how Vin inadvertently swears the Second Windrunner Ideal - or something very similar - in one scene (I believe in the Well of Ascension.)
@@genericallyentertaining Wow its been ages since I read the first Trilogy. Gonna check that out maybe B-Money was doing some good ol´ foreshadowing
Really?
Dude, putting "subscribe or Hoid will personally show up at your home and insult you" at the end of your video has the opposite effect you want it to have!😂There are few things I would love more than for that to actually happen!
Truth😅!
Harsher
Hello. I know this is old but i think i figured out the 5th ideal. Kaladin has learned to protect the ones who cannot do it by themselves, the ones he hate and through his duel he learned there are some people he cannot protect. So what its left? I think its himself. The fifth ideal its "I accept I can/deserve be protected" and then the bridge four (or some members) sacrifice for him.
And it makes perfect sense since you cannot say this words without accepting first there are people who cannot be saved/protected/will die.
What you think?
Spot on
I really like the idea of each order of knights radiant "becoming" something. An early idea I had for the windrunners' fifth ideal was something like "I am that which cannot be killed, for it lives in the hearts of men... I am honor." I don't think that it will be anything close to this anymore, but it sounds cool to me :)
And btw when Dalinar said "I am unity" for a moment I thought that he somehow speedran the ideals and that was his fifth xd
@@roundpixelgames216 It might be that that'll become the actual 5th ideal once he's truly confident and powerful enough to say it.
Shallan's 5th ideal "I am Shallan"
In regard of the fifth ideal of the windrunners I couldn't help but think in the phrase: "I am who decide who lives". I think is such an strong statement and also so horrifying if said by someone like Taravangian, but at the same time more worthy of an epic scene if said by Kaladin (in a more positive light). I am aware that they probably aren't the words, but anyways I wanted to share.
1. I agree that Maben isn't a kandra. A kandra would be of the average height, because she'd have local bones. She might be a Forger, because her eyes aren't mentioned as strange, which means she's got epicanthic (sp?) fold. Only non-Roshar place I remember seeing them is that part of Sel where Shai is from.
2. I reeeally doubt Brandon would give Kaladin an arc of becoming an utilitarian... or anyone, for that matter.
3. Makes a lot of sense.
Specifically Kaladin though. The windrunners' answer to the trolly problem is already known: they believe that it is not moral to kill 1 innocent to save many.
@@jacksonmagas9698 Funnily, they seem to be in agreement with the Skybreakers in that, despite the fact that the 2 orders are usually rivals. In most legal systems it is illegal to kill someone unless they are directly attacking someone, even if killing them would save others. Or maybe the Skybreakers' real answer would be "it's illegal to tie people to trolley tracker" lol
"Will Shallan ever tell a joke thats actually funny?" 10s in and already earned the like
This was great! You should definitely do more of these
Thanks! I certainly will.
everyone knows the 5th ideal is "ill see what I can do". but going from format, it is more likely "I am protection", or" i will protect myself", or" i am worthy of being protected"
This was so interesting I would be very glad if you made more videos like this one.
7:45 that fifth ideal will be contradicting the first one (and the most important, the one that makes him a radiant) so it doesn't have any sense. I think that ideal could be something like "sometimes I am goint to be the one who's gonna have to be protected" or something like that
I'd be interested in what you think about the Chana Davar theory. I laughed at first but... ugh, it's so convincing, especially after the prologue to Stormlight 5...
It seemed like a crack theory at first but now it fits too well
"I am the Law" part seems super compelling. As you deepen your connection with investiture you become like the shards. More an Idea than a person.
I will empower all I can to PROTECT THEMSELVES. That would be a nice 5th Windrunner oath.
I love that!
Shallan's jokes _are_ funny!
Lopen: Sure, gancho. I'll give a few people up - cousins even - if it'll save the world.
Adding it to watch later till I finish the books I love the channel
...Late to the party but i think Maben makes more sense as a Ghostblood spy.
In the sunlit man we see that scadrians like the aproach of passive observation and information gathering, she fits the build and I think her "sneakinness" sounds a lot like emotional alomancy.
Manipulating peoples emotions to make it so no one feels like paying attention to her
I don't know anything about this series.
I've watched a couple of your videos related to it.
I've watched one video by someone explaining the core of the magic system (something about this world, wrapped around a reality of conceptions, wrapped around a core of ideal versions of things). As you can see, I don't understand that very well either.
But gosh is it fun to casually hear "Maybe she's a condra." without having ANY idea what that means. (Did I even spell it right?) It's surprisingly fun to listen to a somewhat incomprehensible deep dive into something I know almost nothing about. :D
Very well made video! Love it! Love the soundtrack, love the way you portray yourself! Congrats!
Good stuff! Thank you for taking the time!
I discovered a bit about hoid's true intentions two to three days ago. Cultivation hates him, and he has a hatred against Rayse and Bavadin.
I think the 5th ideal of the wind runners will be “I will teach others to protect themselves”
You shoud totally do a part 2 of this!
With the new book being worked on, i've been scouring the internet for decent channels and yours def popped up, Keep it up! I would like to suggest maybe taking some inspiration for your video edits from two different channels. One is called Narc, his videos are about completely different things, but I think it can showcase what smaller channels can also do.
So far a lot of the ideals have had slight twists and departures from the previous and some of them require significant character growth to swear/accept. Some of them could even be considered replacements of the previous ones (ie: the Skybreakers moving from following an ideal/law/person, to going on a crusade to finally becoming their own ideal/law) and all of them are more one specific look at/aspect of morals, self-improvement and philosophy than a comprehensive look at them.
I think it would be plausible for the fifth Windrunner ideal to be something along the lines of sacrifice sometimes being necessary which also go along with the Skybreaker ideal being a statement that can be really dangerous in the wrong hands but that could also be very helpful if used by people who should by then have proven that they're extremely unlikely to misuse it.
Agree with the last theory especially when the next 5 years is stormlight 5, then mistborn era 3, followed by elantris 2 and 3 as pallete cleansers before he dives into the back 5 SLA
Loved this!
Do people not think Shallan is funny? I've always loved her. Am I the problem?
That being Kals 5th ideal would be a nice contrast to Todiums goal of saving everyone and being willing to do anything to do it.
Especially interesting if Kal becomes Honor as it is possible Tanavast did the exact opposite of the ideal you said
I think Kaladin's Ffth will go something like this:
The Devil whisppered in his ear "You cannot withstand the storm."
The warrior replied, "I am the storm."
Thinking along similar lines, my wager is on "I am the wind" or "I am honor" (which would be ironic given his Honor is Dead, but I'll see what I can do moment)
i am the storm that is approaching...
@@pedrogabriel3158 Provoking, black clouds in isolation...
@@steverestless9202 I am the Wind looking more likely now.
Great video! Thanks for making. The music was a bit loud though...
Very cool theories and I love your explanations! I didn't watch the third one because I haven't read Elantris yet. But what do you think of Kaladin's mother? I can't quite come up with a full theory but doesn't she seem out of place as well? She's uncharacteristically open-minded, is the mother of 2 radiants, very emotionally mature and balanced, and content with her life even when it was objectively hard. I don't know. She may just be a great regular person but there's something different about her.
Personally, I really lean towards the theory that the fifth ideal is something along the lines of not protecting those who don't want protection. 2 and 3 were about when _to_ protect, and now 4 was kind of when _not_ to protect. I feel like 5 will be along the same lines. Sort of granting agency and freedom to those who don't want a windrunner looking over their shoulder all the time, but want to be their own person/spread their wings of fly. Idk, that's my take. Looking forward to whatever it ends up being!
I'll just say that it doesn't seem like a very Sanderson-esque idea at all, so I don't think it's likely.
The fourth ideal is about accepting failure not giving up. The fifth ideal might be “I accept that there are those who don’t want to be protected. I will protect them anyway”
Hellooo from the future!
Spoilers for Wind and Truth!!!!
I am so glad that the 5th ideal isn't that
Great video. I'd just point out that your audio mixing could be fine-tuned a bit. Like at 3:56 where the piano is pretty distracting (both because that part is very percussive and because it's very loud) :)
Regarding the fifth ideal, we know that Brandon *heavily* foreshadows Kals oaths throughout the books. His constant hatred of light eyes lead to his 3rd. His slave brands and constant reminders of those he's failed foreshadowed his 4th. And there is nothing else in his story that has been foreshadowed as much as his argument with his father about killing to protect. I have theorized that his 5th will be that he cannot kill to protect. If it was the opposite (sacrifice some to save others) is just how he's been living anyway. Killing Parshendi to save bridge 4. Fighting and trying to kill Szeth and Moash to save his friends/employers. Killing fused (and the singers they will kill to inhabit) to save radiants. For him to progress, he needs to change his ways so that he doesn't kill people.
Yes but he's conflicted about killing. There's the scene in WoR where it's a flashback to his training in Amarams army, someone telling him it's okay, lots of people freeze up, not sure if they're able to kill, and after Kal thinks it was the opposite, in that moment he realizes he COULD someone to save another, and that scared him. He's learned to protect, he's learned to forgive himself for those he couldn't save. Now he has to forgive himself for those he has no choice but to fight.
I like the theory that the 5th ideal is actually the same for each order, and there is a symmetry to the ideals, like in how the first ideal is broad and means different things to different people the final ideal will be hard to say for different reasons..
That or it’s the becoming crab people theory, get powers-get claws-get carapace-get a gem heart 😆
The Jaddeth is Autonomy theory is good, and that WoB of him seems to confirm it. But I have had a different theory for a while.
In Arcanum Unbounded, Khriss mentions that because of the two dead shards in the Cognitive Realm, the planet of Sel itself has become incredibly Invested. This is why all of the magic systems seem to be related to geography. She theorizes that Sel has started to become self-aware, like a spren.
In Elantris, it's mentioned that Jaddeth was originally an old god that was associated with the planet, that got coopted by Shu-Dereth.
I think that Jaddeth is actually the planet itself, somehow communicating with Wyrn.
Okay, this would also be really cool. It would especially be a nice bait-and-switch if Sanderson leads us to think the Autonomy theory is true, and it turns out to be something more like this.
Ya know, i do not believe that jaddeth was originally written as an avatar of autonomy, but even so, I believe as he expanded the cosmere he thought about ways to connect it, but that question very well could have been the moment he decided to do it in Elantris 2.
Great video! Here is what some random stranger on the internet thinks about the 3 theories:
1. I completely forgot this character existed, and while I would like it to be true... I don't know, it strikes me as a bit too obscure to work as a reveal later on because no-one remembers her / cares that much. Totally plausible though.
2. Honestly I have no idea about this one. Maybe correct, maybe not, I'd prefer to RAFO myself for the emotional kick to it
3. I was watching that live and I kinda did a big "ohhhhhhh of course it's true, how did I not see that before" moment - yeah whoever thought of this is way more observant than me. Awesome job!
P.S. Now all I can think about is where else has Autonomy managed to permeate her influence? Is Austre (the one goddess who Idrians worship and hate colours or something on Nalthis) an avatar? What about someone on Threnody? How about on Roshar, with one of those weird deities they have lying around like the Moons or the Purelakers' gods? Screw it, while I'm at it, why not in Silverlight? The White Sand sequel is sure going to be interesting if it ever gets written...
But of course before the white sand sequel can be written, the white sand *prose* has to be *re-written*
With the new elantras books being talked about by Brandon this last theory is probably spot on!
I am the defender of the just -- more active and down-to-earth. And I like that trick with holding on your expression as the audio track moves to "so yeah." It's all in the little things..
I’m glad I’m just wrapping of my reread of Elantris or id have no
Idea what you were talking about and
Oh I have some wild out-there theories. Like, Nightblood is heading the Night Brigade. Also they have the Dawnshard of Destruction. Also there is a Dawnshard of Destruction.
5th ideal: I will kill those who I love to protect those in need. (Moash) possibly Lirin at the same time
This might be cus I've read quite a bit of LNs with depressed messiah/hero complex MCs, but the 5th ideal might be something along the lins of "I'll love myself." It could be "I'll forgive myself" or "I'll protect myself" or something too. The idea being, protecting others is great, but self care and love etc is as if not more important. This is a common theme among thr depressed hero complex stories I've read.
Kaladin's 3rd oath was "protect those whom I hate as long as it is right". But what is right? Windrunners are about morality and protection, so the 5th ideal might be about defining what's right to do.
5th ideal Kaladin: “I. Am. BATMAN!”
We already had the "Will he progress past the 3rd ideal? No he probably won't." thing in RoW so I don't think it will be repeated for KoW.
I personally think Rlain is the kandra on Roshar. In WoR he goes back to Narak and when he meets B4 again he is on Warform, and in RoW it is reveald that the listeners use trapped spren to change to warform. How did he change to warform if most listeners where already in Stormform?. Maybe someone else thought about this but idk
Pls forgive any spelling mistake
Omg. I didn't even put together the fact that Autonomy having an Avatar on Sel explains how she got all of the purified investiture for the shardpool in TLM.
I think it will be more likely the 5th ideal is "I will sacrifice myself to protect those who don't deserve it." Which is the only way Moash is getting saved.
Great theories!
Also, Maben gave him JAM! the food of betrayal in the stormlight archives. not really any ground to stand on, but if it happens twice, it's going to be hilarious.
You explored the idea of Maben being a kandra, but what about one of the sleepless?
Why do people hate on Warbreaker and Elantris? (and I'm going to get attacked for this hot take) I liked both of those books so much more than any of the Mistborn books. I daresay Mistborn is my least liked Cosmere property which kind of bums me out because he writes SO much more in that world than anywhere else.
The 5hth ideal is "I will protect with my life"
maben could also be a windrunner or another truthless explaining her status as servant and ability to get to and from shinovar to get jams for terevangian... if there was a known perpendicularity or one is revealed to be in shinovar then the jams from shinovar would definitely be "chekhov's gun" for her being a world hopper. re reading that passage the mention of jams from shinovar seems like the kind of bread crumb Brandon could callback to in a later story to have her be a worldhopper or something more than just a servant.
What is going on with Trell the person on White Sand?
I mean there is already an avatar of Autonomy on Taldain idk
Maybe Autonomy is awful at making up names so she’s been naming all of her avatars after random people from Taldain. Honestly this seems like something we’re only going to get an answer to if we ever get a white sand 2 or whatever.
Can't wait for an avatar named "Kenton" to show up somewhere. Or... WAIT, WHAT IF THE KRISS WHO WRITES THE ARS ARCANA IS JUST AN AVATAR NAMED AFTER THE ORIGINAL KHRISS FROM WHITE SAND???
For the Windrunner Fifth Ideal I don’t think it’ll be about sacrificing people for the greater good so much as killing for the greater good. Sacrifice implies that the person dying is innocent, whereas this wording would mean coming to terms with killing as a means of protecting the innocent from evil people. I agree that Kaladin being OK with sacrificing innocents would probably not be where Brandon wants to take his arc, but I could certainly see his arc becoming him deciding who lives and who dies in the same way that the Skybreaker Fifth Ideal is deciding what is just and unjust. In the end it’s a very fine distinction, but an important one.
My personal theory Kal is gonna attain the Honor Shard and it’s gonna be the worst form of torture for him. As he still won’t be able to save everyone
Do we know if a kandra would be able to bond a spren? Because if they can't that could help us to know who for sure isn't a kandra
They probably can, since other human-adjacent sapient beings seem to be able to.
For the 5th what about "I will protect myself so I can protect others" or "I will protect myself" considering he is so self sacrificing and even was going to end himself? The only person he doesn't seem to be willing to protect is himself. As someone whos always hated existing at ALL I chose to stay no matter what so that I can be there for those around me who need me. Maybe I'm projecting a little -_-
I could 100% see mayven being a ghostblood
What about the theory of the technicality. It say that when they organize the duel of champions, Dalinar says "if we win..." but not specify nothing about a tie. Sorry for the bad English, it's not my first language
IMO Maben is a Scadrian using some sort of emotional allomancy or ferrachemy to store connection.
Funny when you were talking about Maben maybe but probably not being a Kandra, while M'rall is right therein the same scene with a LOT of texual evidence he's likely a Kandra
To do with the Maven series, spoiler warning for the mistborn Wax and Wayne series, she cant be a Kandra, we know Cephadrious goes to Scadrial because of something on Roshar to do with odium so there wouldnt be a kandra on Roshar yet, right? Or do I have my timelines wrong.
Wait, how do we know that there are Kandra on Roshar?
Interesting theories to be sure. But I have to ask you, do you believe it he Shallan/Chanarac/Mishram theory? This seems to be the most interesting yet divisive theory in the entire fandom. I personally do hby?
Can you explain it to me, or point me towards where I can read of it?
I'd like to know as well!
Well, I was half right
I wonder if Maben is actually the same worldhopper as Lemex's nurse
Also I don't know about other edgedancers, but there is no way Lift poops
My favorite is that Calamity from The Reckoners is the shard of Indolence. I know Brando says that no book with Earth in it is part of the Cosmere; but he's changed his mind on things before.
I really don't see him changing that. He's worked very hard to remove Earth from the Cosmere.
Windrunner67 is david from 17th shard, so you can expect his theories to be pretty great.
I'm dying for Elantris and Warbreaker sequels
I don't think intentional sacrifice would be the 5th ideal.
It seems the theme of windrunners and the stormfather are heavily entwined. There are a few passages when the stormfather tries explaining to Dalinar that he can't stop the everstorms and the destruction they bring. That even manipulating them goes against what he is. Considering windrunners are bonded to wind spren it seems likely that the 5th ideal would be pushing them closer to a level of indifference if not acceptance at the destruction they must cause.
Something more generic than sacrifice. Something like "I will destruct whatever obstructs me". Terrible for a normal person with bad morals. But if you are already on this path of saving people and have proven yourself in that path, then whatever is obstructing you will inherently be immoral or it wouldn't be an obstruction.
Could even be more sinister. "I will not try to save everyone"
Nice video. Some constructive criticism: the music is quite loud and shrill compared to your voice, maybe make it a bit quieter.
Or what if the 5th ideal is "I am willing to sacrifice my life for the protection of others"
Mabon most likely Part of the ghostbloods. They seem to have a hand in lots of stuff and other worlds
Isn't saving lives no matter what also kind of utilitarian? I don't think that the 5th ideal being about how sometimes there are things more important than saving as many lives as possible, that sometimes there are things that are worth the loss of some lives, would mean that the 5th ideal is all about becoming a utilitarian.
Utilitarianism isn't the only ideology under which loss of life is sometimes justifiable, far from it.
Hey I love this video but also want to ask... where'd you get that shirt? I kinda want one 👉👈
edit: I think whether or not an edgedancer needs to wipe their butt would depend on when exactly their stool's Identity changes from "part of [edgedancer]" to "I am a poop."
Wait, why do we know there are kandra on Roshar?
Also, that theory about Autonomy makes a lot of sense.
I really don't think the Windrunner's 5th ideal is to sacrifice others. I think the opposite would be true like "I will not harm in order to protect" which goes along with all of that he's been through so far, and I think the real conflit is finding a way in which he may be able to protect instead of killing others. I just feel like sacrificing others seems like the opposite of what he's been learning to do as a Windrunner.
True, but so far a lot of the ideals have has slight twists and departures from the previous (ie: Protect everyone, but later acknowledging that you may not always be able to for Windrunners and first swearing yourself to a codex of Law and then later going on a crusade and finally, becoming the law for Skybreakers) and some of them require significant character growth to swear/accept.
I think it would be unlikely to go as far as to state that sacrificing others is a good thing, but I think it may be plausible for it to be something along the lines of sacrifice sometimes being necessary. It would also go along with the Skybreaker ideal being a statement that can be really dangerous in the wrong hands which is intended with the same consideration of the people that reach it being very unlikely to actually misuse it.
That can't be the fifth ideal for the windrunners. It goes too much along the path of "the end justifies the means" which is what the Radiants are against, it is the opposite of "journey before destiny". The whole idea around the Radiants is that they won't do something bad even if it is for the greater good. That idea of "the end justifies the means " is, in fact, what represents Taravangian...
I can imagine Kaladin getting to the point of saying: I decide who lives.
😅 I hope not, but I could see it happening
My husband says “Only if we forget to use our powers.” I personally think they still do, but if most edgedancers are like my husband, they probably don’t.
I have this sick... sick feeling. I'm starting to actually believe Kaladin will become Odiums champion. I think there is the possibility that he actually breaks and gets opium to take his pain. What is the what thing Kal struggles with? Death, specifically death of those he cares about. I know what you're thinking, the 4th ideal, he can accept it.
What if there was someone he absolutely wouldn't be able to accept. Now, what did book 4 establish? Spren can officially be killed. If Syl were to get killed, that could be the moment that fully breaks Kal. The one person that he literally can't go on with out.
"I am Shallan Davar" we all know it... 5th ideal righ there