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If the Kobayashi Maru was a test used during the time Kirk was in the Academy, the real ship would have existed before that. Why does it have Enterprise-Refit's nacelles and styling?
also, did I just see landing feet on the underside of the saucer?
I suppose it would have been updated from Kirk’s time (which would have featured the actual ship I suppose) with this ship (which could either be a refitted Kobyashi Maru or a different freighter) as the scenario is updated often with the changing political situation in Star Trek as well as with changing technology
The no win test is for any era testing, so this is the latest version design looks like.
It's called a "Kobayashi Maru class" so it's probably not THE Kobayashi Maru, but named in its honor.
Also as noted the KM in the test is probably updated to a contemporary ship as the years have gone on. According to most sources including the Enterprise continuation novels, the original KM was an old Klingon design that ended up bought by Earth Cargo.
Another useful aspect of the hypothetical hospital "cargo" pods...individual quarantine units!
I always thought ECS stood for Existential Crisis Ship
UI should have that on my forehead if so
Pro tip : watch movies at flixzone. Me and my gf have been using it for watching a lot of movies recently.
Thank you for everything that you gentlemen do for all Trekies Terra Firma. You have no idea how much a sick old man looks forward to your videos everyday. As always, please continue making it so.
I hope your illness has improved.
@@keirfarnum6811 Actually, yes it has. That ailment has been gone for about a year. Thank you kindly for your concern 🖖🏼
I love this design much nicer & cleaner than the old traditional carrier or cargo vessels. Looks easily convertible to a scout class vessel
Those aren't impulse engines on the pods, they're brake lights.
There’s also a sticker on the back that says: “I brake for baby nebulae!” (It’s a Starfleet Astrophysicists’ joke; they spend a lot of time mapping nebulae). 😁
if u replace the cargo haul with torpedo pylon like seen in new orlean class and add 4 phaser bank on both dorsal and ventral position , this ship would be a MONSTER !!
They would need to add shark’s teeth to the front; like a P40 Warhawk or an A10 Warthog.
I like this design as a ship in general but as a cargo ship it sucks, there's way too much wasted space. Unless it's designed to carry passengers as well as cargo its cargo capacity seems way too low and passenger capacity too high if the windows are any indicator. To be be a more believable cargo ship they should have extended the section below the bridge module all the way across and out to the edges of the saucer. Being a cargo ship it shouldn't need all that much cabin space since it should be able to run with a very small crew. It doesn't need a science section, it doesn't need weapons personnel, it doesn't need people to run all of the sensors, it only needs a bridge crew, an engineering crew, a small medical team, and maybe a handful of people to handle cargo and/or shuttles. Maybe 100 people max and that's stretching things, whose quarters should all be able to all fit in the area beneath the bridge module and a little behind.
A good comparison is a modern cargo ship, they're like 90% - 95% cargo hold with the remaining 5% - 10% devoted to the bridge, engineering space, and misc. personnel spaces like living quarters, medical, mess hall, etc. They're also heavily automated so that despite their massive size they run with a crew of maybe a dozen or so personnel. I don't see why it would be anything different in the future, if anything automation should make it that you need even fewer personnel relative to the size of the ship.
The canon data on the Kobayashi Maru indicates that there are 80 crew and 300 passengers. vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/4/41/Kobayashi_Maru_data.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090525034150&path-prefix=en
In light of that information the design makes much more sense although I have no idea why anybody would design a freighter/cargo ship to carry so many passengers. I guess that in the Trekverse the space equivalent of airlines are virtually non-existant so cargo haulers do the job in addition to moving freight.
Thinking of it, this design would make for a great colony ship, something designed specifically for establishing new colonies. It has tons of room for the colonists and it would carry everything the colonists would need to start their new colony, including parts for pre-fabbed buildings and all of the supplies and equipment they'd need.
The containers are the prizes for the Maru cruize bingo
In Decipher RPG they made this the same class as the Merchantman from Star Trek III. memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Monarch_class
Rather than a modern cargo ship, this design has more parallels with the 'cargo liners' of the 20th century which were largely killed off by airline competition and bulk transit of freight. The last true cargo liner could be said to be the "RMS St. Helena" which had a crew of 59 and capacity for 128 passengers and 1800 tonnes of cargo - according to wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_St_Helena_(1989)
I am a lifer of STO, it is always fun to come back to play a little from time to time. I am glad you guys bring this ship and talk about it. :)
The "Kobayashi Maru" is the most famous of the no-win scenarios at Starfleet Academy. Over the years the class of the ship and enemies used in the scenario have changed with the times to maintain realism. The ship classes used are actual classes in common use.
Love the yellow highlights on it. My issue with the impulse drive placement is landing a shuttle in the direct outflow of nuclear hot gasses.
Rick Meyer one could say that that is what shields are for, however I would speculate that the majority of shuttle operations on any vessels rarely occur when the ship is under even impulse power
For the record, the Kobayashi Maru technically was in the game years ago in the early beta days...as a generic freighter model in the No Win Scenario STF.
Hello Gentlemen,
The cargo sections do not seem to be normally able to separate. Yes, in an emergency, I agree they might be popped off via explosive bolts to 'dump the cargo' and run.
The small engines are 'normal' for the mass of the ship, being a much slower ship than a 'military' vessel.
Three bays make sense to me, so as to have quite a few shuttles and worker bees available to shift cargo quickly in port.
The cargo sections MAY be detachable since that foreshot shows 'pads' at the ends of the struts.
And I agree that if the above is true, then the red areas at the rear of the cargo sections may indeed be short ranged impulse engines.
Just my thoughts,
The Frank Gamer
TrekYards Wow!
I love this design! its so nice and fits in so perfectly.
4:58 I would think that the Federation Merchant Marine (“Service in the name of Prosperity.”) would have taken over from the Earth Cargo Service at this point in time. If it was privately owned I'd expect to see a NAR-registry.
14:47 Where does that leave the warp core?
I wish this ship would be available on Star Trek Online. :) Happy holidays you two. Keep up the great work!
Well, we got the Reliant class as part of the event which is a nice little ship.
It is NOW.
I could see those bays labeled A thru F holding tugs designed to pick up or deliver the pods from or to planet surfaces.
Really like this ship. Very in keeping with the movie era aesthetic. Great review gents. Thanks!
I dont think the pods are detachable but the small containers inside them are
I like this because it uses Intermodal containers, however the number it carries is pitifully small, you would really want a design that can fit the maximum amount of containers inside the warp bubble as possible in all dimensions, which admittedly would not fit the Federation aesthetic but would be the most efficient.
The top down really looks like an Oberth Class with a saucer added.
Imagine one of these carrying 2 colonization missions - each has a pod to hold their starting supplies/material, and the emptied pod can act as a STL in-system craft... The whole ship warps into the system, detaches a pod, then warps to the next system and drops off the remaining one.
I really like this design. I don't play STO, but I think they have some really awesome ship designs.
The small part differences are probably my favorite bits that STO does which can be seen with this Kobayashi Maru interpretation. The yellow was also an interesting bit which I’d assume it would probably be an identifier that this is not a starfleet ship.
Well done, would like to see more advancements to this design - much potential.
It's the "Miranda-class: Oops, All Shuttle Bays!" edition!
Honestly love this design. Always a fan of the TMP era designs, but it's neat to see a civilian ship in those lines. It's also a nice change from the ugly big blocky designs we usually see for freighters.
I'm just in love. The Miranda class is really cool ship and this cargo inspired variant is beautifully done.
Why they don't call those guys from STO to work in the new movies/series and do some proper ship designs and not the atrocity we are seeing is beyond me.
Great episode guys.
Happy new Year and LLAP.
Alot of the older Miranda class were refitted as cargo vessels and as they were quick to build I can see that design going on and on
Hope you both had a great and merry Christmas.
what an insanely beautiful Motion Picture Era design... but I have to agree with "wasted space" and "not immediately recognizable as a cargo hauler" but then the Franz Joseph TOS tender design (Ptolemny I think it was called?) was also just a Connie saucer with a grey pepsi can attached to the bottom
What an awesome ship! Love the design!
Maru is Japanese for "A ship named" so the ships name is literally "A ship named Kobiyashi.
Traditionally only civilian ships used Maru in the name.
I love this ship design. It's a logical re-use of the Miranda spaceframe (modified), coupled with the detachable cargo module concept from the Ptolemy class.
Note that on the ventral view, there is some sort of logo, seal, or insignia on the port side of each cargo pod. This lends credence to the idea that the pods are routine-detachable, like a semi trailer, since the detail would more likely be symetrical on the outboard side if the pods were a permanent part of the ship.
However, I don't think this ship should have been called Kobayashi Maru.
1. KM is obviously a civilian, privately-owned ship. Yet this ship's design lineage is obviously Star Fleet. It even uses the same warp nacelles as the Consitution refit, which were Star Fleet's most advanced design at the time of TMP. TWOK is only a few years later, so even though the Miranda class uses very similar nacelles, I think it's fair to say that those nacelles are still some of the most advanced Star Fleet propulsion units available. No way Star Fleet would allow those engines into the hands of civilian freight haulers who operate near the border of hostile foreigh powers like the Klingon Empire.
2. KM is a neutronic fuel carrier, not a general cargo vessel. This ship is obviously designed to haul general cargo of any kind, both in the pods and its internal bays.
3. KM has a crew of 81 and passenger capacity of 300. The Miranda carries a complement of 220 (DS9 Tech Manual). However, this design has a huge amount of internal volume dedicated to cargo and shuttle operations, in a hull that's already slightly smaller than a Miranda. No way you're going to fit passenger cabins for 300 plus 81 crew berths on this ship.
In short, this design is beautiful and fully in keeping with the design aesthetic of the TOS Movie era Star Fleet ships. But it's not suitable to be called Kobayashi Maru; it should have been released as a Star Fleet cargo tug, and some other original design should have been released as the Kobayashi Maru.
This is what appears on screen during the opening scene of TWOK:
Kobayashi Maru
CLASSIFICATION: Class III Neutronic Fuel Carrier
REGISTRY: Amber, Tau Ceti IV
MASTER: Kojiro Vance
CREW: 81
PASSENGERS: 300
DEAD WEIGHT TONNAGE: 147,943 M.T.
CARGO CAPACITY: 97,000 M.T.
LENGTH: 237 m.
BEAM: 111m.
HEIGHT: 70 m.
MAX CRUISE SPEED: wf 3
MAX EMERGENCY SPEED: wf 6
You it hit out of the ballpark Capt. Foley, it looks like revinted, Miranda class.
Can't wait to see the new Nebula class 23th-century starship.
I think the commander is a little tired. He says BSG at about 11:00 and it cracked me up thinking about runabouts fighting base-stars
we do shoot a lot of videos to try and keep ahead. Sometimes 3/4 Mission Brieifng episodes in 1 day + all the normal work + editing. All of these videos over the christmas 2 week break had to be filmed before hand and so yeh...can get very tireing to keep up this work load.
For some reason, this doesn't look anything like I would think an ore freighter would look like. Didn't they claim in STII that the Kobayashi Maru was a neutronic ore freighter?
The Kobayashi Maru specifically was, but if it's based on a modular standard cargo ship it makes more sense. Like how some Starships are science ships/engineering ships/ long range explorers, they may use the same class of cargo ship to do multiple different freight missions.
I have to admit when I saw the movie in my mind I pictured something more like the Horizon than this rendition of the Kobayashi Maru. Not that this isn't a lovely design, it is but in my mind I've pictured something more cargoish as I said like the rendition of the Horizon you pictured.
I think Mackenzie Calhoun from the Star Trek Excalibur series had the best solution.
Your in enemy territory, but you couldn't find life signs on the ship before your sensors were jammed, blowing up the cargo vessel is the only way you can save at least your crew.
The crew on the cargo ship is most likely already dead. Might as well use it's warp core to destroy and weaken those who set the trap.
I like it. It's solid design
I think it needs two more pods to better utilize the space between the current pods
The impulse engines are in a bad area. He's dedicated that space to both when he should just chose one and reposition the other. I've never agreed with flight operations near reactors or engines.
This may have been the the design that the Miranda designers used for their own purposes. That may give weight to the statement that the Soyuze was out of production before the Miranda was.
The refit Nacelles could have just been added by the simulation designers to keep the test updated for newer Cadets.
it's an interesting concept
if those containers are the size of a runabout, Star Fleet could use the class as an auxiliary carrier, either combat specialized runabouts or peregrine fighters
The instant you guys pointed out the windows on the front of the pods. I thought of them being detachable with their own impulse engines to fly down to a planet. I think that a good use of the ship, to make it a medical vessel. Either for wartime or for an epidemic or plague. The pods could detach and serve as makeshift hospitals. Could be a reason why the ship has so few weapons on it.
Looks like the admirals ship from discovery but movie era style looks great
Hey guys, good vid and great ship. Have you done a vid on the Mughi-class Starfleet cargo ship?
as to this one:
This isn't a Starfleet ship, it's a civilian Federation ship, registered to Earth.
The lack of a Omega tactical sensor package on the lower navigational dome is because its not a Starfleet ship or a military ship. You can see the same on the Phase II designs.
And a couple of phasers for self-defence is fine in a ship that is not meant to be fightign at all.
I think the intent of the designer/builder was that the pods do not come off except for emergency jettisoning. They would not paint the name of the ship on pods that can be left at their current destination and new ones attached. That said, I do like thje speculation that they can be routinely detached and piloted in under their own impulse power to whatever cargo transfer station they are at for unloading.
Nice ship, it looks to me that the little containers in the pods are mounted to rails that can be removed to fit a large single container or a vary large pod to pod container. What do you think?
it looked like they have a crane system on bottom struts. that why its black above them. so the 12 containers are dropped as a group and picked up in a group. for example, you pre-arrange containers then it picks up new ones pre set up.
Great show guys. Wish ya guys could go onto how many decks and floor plans of most all of the ships. The only issue i have with this ship is the Nacells . Ones pictured here is of the refit era . Kirk in Star fleet had to go throught the scenerio before becoming Captain. The Nacells would have been in the (TOS) Configuration. Or am i the only one to whom noticed this
Necropath true for the motion piture version. How ever , Kirk had to do the same test before graduation of star fleet. Spock invented the test but it was based on all historical statistics of the time in which it took place. Any upgrading of any part of these test would be considered invalid at that point. Wouldnt you agree ?
Only JJ Spock invented it. I don't believe the original Spock made it.
ECS = Earth Cargo Ship
If they're corporate, could be Earth Company Ship....oh wait, some other universe already grabbed that designation...
The Miranda and Kobayashi share engineering spaces if not the same reactor. That would give you some standardization with a saucer about 15% smaller. That would allow for a standard life support/crew quarters and engineering built by a solid corporation, and then the cargo bays out front, being less critical can be built out by the lowest bidder. It has 2 lower struts that would haul the old Starfleet cylinder modules, or older and newer modules for containerized bulk/dangerous cargo. The cargo bays in the hull would carry the high end and critical cargo. The hangar bay on the rear would be for cargo tugs when delivering to areas without a port.... I would have impulse standard at the base of the engine struts, then the "soyuz" tail would have some smaller units as back up when not pulling a load and extra capacity when loaded with a BIG load. Thrusters on the containers would be more for use in port perhaps.
I just love the movie era Enterprise. My second is the D. I know that's not what this video is about, just have it there for comparison. I really like this ship as well. Seems to me though that it would be smart for the federation to recycle ships and refit their older ships as cargo ships, troop or colony transports as they needed instead of building a new ship just for that task.
A good design to start with, but if you wanted to go with the Movie Era aesthetic for a cargo ship, then a Constellation class style primary would give you the most cargo area in the hull. The Ptolemy class center line container clamp could also be worked in so that all modes of hauling goodness are available to the Federations space truckers.
I have started to come around on Star Trek Online. I always enjoyed it but kind of had a snobbish opinion on it in relation to 'Alpha' canon..the more I play, the more I enjoy and am becoming more lenient on interpretation.
I love how it fills in a lot of the gaps with the on screen canon. The whole Iconian arc is damn amazing, I'd love an HBO style miniseries based on that, or pretty much any of the seasons to be fair, they're all good enough to make a proper show or movie from.
I would enjoy seeing them team up with CBS/Paramount as well in that regard. Would be very interesting.
In a recent podcast the STO DEVs mention that CBS came to meet with them and told them quite a bit about upcoming Trek stuff. They couldn't say what they were told but the fact that CBS keys the STO DEVs in on the future of Trek shows that while it may not be cannon, STO is something CBS pays attention too.
priorityonepodcast.com/po347/
Let's hope they don't FUCK IT UP, now.
they disappointed me regarding Discovery.
nice design fits its era well.
Commander Cockings. When did you meet Michael Okuda? if you ever see him again, mention Pete"s Modelcraft.
He'll remember.
At the last Mission Canada trip..lol i didnt get to speak to him much so if i got the chance to speak to him again i have my own things first ;)
Thank you for your answer. Anyway. He was in high school or perhaps at the U of H when we worked together. He was the expert on the model rockets at the store. Even then he was quite knowledgeable on Space and Star Trek. We wore blue shirts.
Shuttle bay probably only has 1 shuttle, but I'd imagine as a cargo ship it would have several work bees for cargo loading.
Another good episode. Do one on the Fury class interceptor.
I mean I think it doesn’t really matter how many impulse engines it has, most of the trip will be at warp and the maneuvering into systems doesn’t need to be lightning fast. You might prefer slow precision over raw speed when it comes to docking with a space station.
I could see this being a bad idea having a cargo vessel sharing a similar profile to a warship, could lead to unnecessary attention during a conflict. On the other hand it may be a benefit to look like a warship. It could keep pirates away from getting to be close.
The cargo layout of this is something more like flatbed railroad cars designed for standard cargo containers...the containers are individually detachable. Cargo containers like that are, if you think about it, about the same size as a runabout.
Cool little ship.
If you try to make the Registration number work correctly this ships registry number would not be part of Star Fleet's Registration system because it is a civilian ship. Just having ECS in front of the number puts it in a different Numbering system be it by the order in which the ship was ordered or commissioned. Also numbers would not indicated number currently operational in either format for making the Registration numbers have meaning, as older ships would be decommissioned, lost or destroyed over time. I can not un-see the "Cars" reference. lol Great ship as long as it does not get you killed. lol
In the novel verse, it’s a refitted Klingon ship I recall.
I love this design and wish there was a model of it. Am I the only one who thought that the Kobyashi Maru was a ship that starfleet academy just came up with for that no win senerio?
Its a big ship, I had no idea...it could also double as a "repair tinder"
I stopped visiting the channel when everything seemed to be STD/blatant excuse making for CBS. But I just got caught up and I gotta say, *this* is what makes this channel great. When season 2 hits, STD vids are to be expected and fine.... but hopefully you guys manage to find a better balance.
Great video! love to see the kobayashi maru. Are you guys sure about the excelsior size in that screenshot? It looks tiny.
I was under the impression that those doors (A,B,C,D…etc) were for deploying cargo-handling work bees for getting those neutronic fuel cylinder tank off-loaded and maneuvering them to a station/ship. (What the heck is “neutronic fuel” anyway? Thought ships and shuttles used antimatter and deuterium.) perhaps that neutronic fuel can’t be transported due to some sort of instability, why else have removable canisters?
Looking at this, I can't help but think the Reliant's nacelles should have been on top.
Nice ship!
Something to keep in mind is there are several companies who design ships with or for the Federation and they DO have other clients. Some of the 'less then canon' lore even suggests companies like Ford and GMC are still kicking around in the 23rd and 24th Century and have shifted their production to starship design over the centuries. Submitting that as plausible truth, it could be just as easy to claim one of these companies was simply commissioned to make ships for a non-Federaiton organization that are still Federation Members; plausibly the same company who helped design the movie era ships.
Great video! Keep up the great work! Would love to see a video for the Freedom Class or Springfield class!
But, can the Kobayashi Maru make 12 parsecs ????
Well warp 1 is just beyond lightspeed, and warps are logarithmic so it seems that any ship that can make better then warp 3 would be faster then any ships in star wars. So it stands to reason that the galaxy in star wars is very small compared to the milky way galaxy.
@@kdrapertrucker - Depends on which SCALE used old or new, OLD warp 14 is Slower than Movie Era Transwarp 15 for Example.
You can now fly one of these in STO.
Large impulse engines would be needed for tactical speed, which is _not_ what this is built for. This is like a semitrailer truck, or maybe a railroad engine, meaning it would need "torque" rather than "speed" (however those concepts translate into impulse engine output).
ecs means Earth Cargo Service
Is that another set of shuttle doors at 24:55
To the left of Bay Door 1 and to the right of Bay Door 2?
Eh, I have no issue with it feeling under powered on thrusters verses a starfleet cruiser, large ocean cargo container or petroleum transport ships tend to prize cost of operation over speed. They generally have a max speed around 20 knots but often travel slower than that to reduce fuel usage, where as military capital ships are capable of around double the speed a standard freighter might do. Plus moving mass faster also means you have more momentum to stop, which means more risk in case of collision and weight dedicated to keeping containers from shifting.
It seems more unusual not to make the saucer have a larger volume, even with a smaller radius it still seems like it should have had more decks near the full radius.
THIS WORKS! hey eaglemoss! do this ship!
It’s a “neutronic fuel carrier”?
when it comes to impulse think roads highway warp long journey cool impulse city and suburb traffic everything would be in the sub 35 mile range so small impulse is efficent and fine
The design is nice but seems more of a colony ship then just a cargo ship as it has space for plenty of passengers, worker bee's, the cargo holds look like they could detach and other then the cargo doors on the bottom of the suacer there are 4 more rectangles do you think they could be landing gear for when the cargo pods are detached the ships itself could then land using the struts for the cargo pods as legs to help hold the weight of the rear of the ship
USS Melbourne was a excelsior class....
I like the design but feel like it’s too close to the Miranda in basic design. We know that the TMP era saucer is designed to have additional air locks on the underside and I like that the D and E decks are converted from officer quarters to loading ports with the bulk of the Miranda-type engineering section likely housing passenger accommodations. What I don’t like is that it’s so “clean” - like the Millennium Falcon in the upcoming Solo movie! This ship needs to look more weathered; it looks like a hospital ship with its stark white plating.
the spot under the center shuttle bay is a tug pod mount. like the Ptolemy class www.neutralzone.de/database/Federation/Other/PtolemyClass_Tug01.htm
It seems unnecessary for it to have a saucer at all. Cargo ships should just be cargo storage, engines and a small living and command section.
Is the Excelsior scaled correctly in that image? In your past episodes on the Excelsior and Enterprise B you have the correct scaling with the images.
Thats the Default CG model used by Eaglemoss which i believe they scaled correctly, hence why i used that one :) (i trust it is anyway!)
www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/excelsior/excelsior-constitution-side.jpg
Always referred to this as the proper scaling despite the differences in the bridge dome.
Question to be answered, did the Kobayashi Maru have tribbles aboard? The only species of non honorable death awaits.
So does that make the Kobayashi Maru the Star Trek equivalent of the Millennium Falcon?
It's interesting, but aren't those lettered doors in a bad place? They should have been on the outer edge of the saucer, reserving the space near the bridge module for crew. As it is, your approach is restricted and more dangerous than it needs to be.
several mentions of corporations owning these but are there mentions of private "corporations" in canon?
everyday jobs you never see in Star Trek, Space truckers.
Wouldn't it make more sense for her registry to be FCS.....FEDERATION CARGO SHIP?
The FASA Kobayashi Maru design looked better for a freighter.
I like the design in general, but not so much for being the Kobayashi Maru. It looks too Starfleet and not tankery enough to me.
Darth Wedgius It does like like a kitbash with parts from a Miranda-Class.
Wouldn't the Kobayashi Maru have been around in the TOS timeline as well?
Yes
But it would probably look different, as it would've had State Of The Art tech in 2266
I like the design, but I don't like it being a freighter. I've never been a fan of cargo ships and starliners looking like Starfleet vessels. This goes back to the FASA line and their two luxury space liners that looked like bloated Starfleet vessels. I prefer Starfleet and civilian to be separate in purpose and design.
Why don't they just call it the bad juju class and be done with it! lol
About the impulse engines, I don't see that a freighter would need that much impulse power/speed. Just drop out of warp as close to the planet/starbase/whatever as it's possible no need to spend more time then needed on impulse power.
When Will this event be again?