If you or someone you know is playing a 12” rack tom and you’d like to help them discover a better way to live, please have them visit OrlandoDrummer.com for help and other resources to assist them through this difficult time.
Brother I have a few 12" toms I love. My favorite is on my Maple / Mahogany kit. The kit is 22", 8",10",12",14". So it's one of the lower " floor " toms. Everyone laughs until they hear the kit. These drums are small but they punch. I think a lot of it has to do with the materials, and the heads. In the end it's preference and what sounds right for the song.
Lmfao I love my 12” Tom, there IS A MIDDLE AREA when tuning it for sure, I usually keep the head loose-semi tight and it provides the best tone but that’s on preference cause if it’s not within range the overtone makes me want to cry.
Simple trick for a 16". Take your resonant off and tune the batter up until you hear a proper tone,put the resonant back on and tune it up (in small steps) to a preferred pitch or acceptable resonance. From there, you can do to your batter head whatever you want. Go lower or higher depending on preference or genre.
I used to have my 10, 12, and 14 in front of me with 16 and 18 to the side. loved it, but I didn't like all the space it took up. ended up moving them around and leaving just the 10 and 12 in front with the 14 on the floor
Dang! I thought I was the only one thinking 12" toms sound so weird :D I had the exact issue with tuning with my 12" toms. Thats actually the reason why I switched to a 1 up 1 down set up with a 10 and 14". Also ride positioning is WAY better without that second rack tom
i play 7 up 1 down, 6 & 8 roto toms above hi hat, 2 octobans behind the left most rack tom, 8, 12, 13 rack toms & then 16 floor tom. it would be nice to have my ride closer, especially for blast beats, i like the way my 13 sounds, but its too deep, so i got a 10" to have 8, 10, 12, making them lower, and giving me 3 inches to move my ride left. But my 10 sounds totally wrong compared to my other toms.and i never particularly liked the way my 12 sounds
I've found a 13" as a rack tom is a little harder to tune then a 13" floor. I played a sonor martini kit with a 13" floor and it was a breeze to tune and sounded amazing.
Idk I love larger toms. Idc how hard they are to tune or how weird they look I love large 13x13 or 14x15 power racks on a 4 or 5 piece kit. A lot harder to come by these days
Wonder what Art Blakey, Elvin Jones, Tony Williams, and so many other groundbreaking jazz drummers would think of this? They all used 12X8 racks, or 12X8 and 13X9 if they played with two racks. Toms weren't made in all different sizes so they had no other choices. But somehow, tuning didn't seem to be a problem for them, they made beautiful music with what they had.
@@chardrum No, your response is far too simplistic, many ways to properly tune drums regardless of size, 12 inch can sound great in any setting (rock, metal, etc) with proper tuning. Try a kit with 18" kick, 14" floor, 13" and 12" racks, tune them properly (and not necessarily high-pitched) and they will sing. It's not until you get into the mini-me sizes (10" etc) that the sound goes south (can't comment on how easy/hard those sizes are to tune because I've never, and will never, play a mini-me drum, they sound like codswallop).
Yes to all. 20,10, 14 all day. 10” rack toms are my fav. I would like to be in 16” floor tom club someday. If I rocked two racks I would do 8x7 with a 10x8
@@jonnylikertrommer I used to have that kit! Yeah, I found the same thing. I play a Saturn V exotic now, and my 12 on that is easy to tune as well. It all depends where your starting point is, I guess. I wonder how Adam would feel if he just started with a 12 instead of the 10; because his biggest complaints were it was "hard to find the middle note when starting with a 10, and it takes up the space where he likes his ride". Start with the 12 (have 1 up and 2 down like he already does, but with a 12 as the top), still leave space for his ride, and not have to deal with finding a middle note if that's the first fundamental and no 10". Personally, I like all sorts of configs depending on the context. If just left setup in the studio, I usually leave all the toms up, and I find my 12×8" on the Saturn one of the easiest to tune. It's usually getting that 14×12 right where I want it that's a little tricky, so it matches well with the last fundamental of the 16×14 and the previous 12, but still sings well without being left so low it detunes frequently. I also have a Gretsch Catalina with deeper toms in the same dimensions, and the 12 is what I usually leave as the top if I'm doing 1 up (granted, it's usually what my students play on as the second kit). Lastly, I use a left and a right ride (20 and 22) and the Saturn has cymbal mounts for the toms, so I run into the same configuration/setup puzzles for finding the right angles and distances for my rides when using 2 up; but still manage to get it all nice and comfortable within about 15 minutes, without anything overlapping or crowding to where I misfire. To each their own, I guess! But, I've honestly never found 12s to be all that difficult to use/tune, and when tuned right or used in the right context, adds a great sound to the setup. Happy drumming!
@@Wut88 Mapex is usually a 14×12. But, I'm not sure what series you have. Yeah, it's usually one of the trickier ones to get "just" right; but once it's there, sounds great! At least, on my Saturn. Mine aren't mounted though, they're on the floor. Mapex usually makes more box drums. My Gretsch Catalina shells in the same dimensions are like 2-4" deeper per tom; but solely maple. The Saturn with that walnut/hybrid shell just hits me the right way. Kinda like a birch, but more warmth. Happy drumming, my dude!
@@blakenunndrums yeah Ive had my mapex pro m for like 18 years, at first I used the whole set.. 10 12 14 16 , then just the 12 14 16 , cause I started experimenting with one tom (and I love 12s), and eventually I just went with 12" and 16".. thats when I realized I hated the 14" , lol but now I got a smaller kit (gretsch catalina with 18" bass drum) and the 14" is now my favorite part of the kit... now the 12" is kind of "meh" , and also the hardest to tune
I had this exact issue with my Starclassic Walnut/Birch kit. 22” kick and 10x8 and 12x9 rack....I tried for two hours and couldn’t get the toms where I wanted them. I read all about how amazing the mounting hardware with this kit was and how flexible it was from a setup standpoint....and I couldn’t make it work to the point that I almost sent the kit back. I ended up mounting it to my ride cymbal stand in the floor tom position and tuning it down...and I love it! Basically I have a one up/two down setup now but it was the only way I could make it work. My SJC Custom kit is a 12x8 over a 20” kick and I have had no issues with it but I just scrapped the second rack tom altogether on that kit and went 12-14-16.
I've always heard the more square the drum, the more difficult to tune. My main kit has 8x6, 10x7, 12x8, rack toms & 16x14FT, 20x20 kick. They usually play nice with each other.
I've always had a strange relationship with the 12" toms also. I have a method to tuning my kit, and it works on everything, but the 12" ALWAYS sounds weird compared to the others and needs more tweaking. I use to think it was just one of my old kits, but it's been this way on every kit I've had. I think it just wants to be tuned higher than I want to tune it.
I have never had any such issues. In fact, I have two 12" rack toms with only 1" difference in depth, and I never have issues. I tune one up a bit and one down a bit, and there's plenty of separation to play both, or pick and choose which one to use for specific songs. They fit quite nicely in the line around the kit.
Personally, I love a 12. They sound good low and beefy, or high and poppy. 14's are what I can't work with. Not low enough to be a floor tom IMO, not high enough to be a rack. I bought a lot of sizes for my 3007 so I can swap them out for different reasons. I went with 10, 12, 13, 16, 18. No matter which configuration, I can get a good tonal spread and find good tuning intervals.
I agree with this. love my 12 inch tom. my 14 sounds good but the lugs are so loose, they easily unwind and fall out at the bottom. I will try bigger floor tom(s) soon.
Im glad im not the only one that feels this way. When I got my custom kit I ordered 10x7” 13x8” 16x16” toms with a 20x14” kick. It made tuning SOOOOO MUCH EASIER.
@@archologyzero yeah it's pretty cool that way you can put the toms anywhere you want. I used to put my small rack tom off to the left and then I would put another tom next to my floor tom back in the 90s.. but yeah you can get pretty creative on stands
I find that very interesting. at first, I also hated my 12 inch tom and never got it to sound right. but I recently came around and now I love it. the reason is that I listen to and play mostly rock and metal music. in that genre I find that the 12 inch tom is irreplacable, because it has a unique transition characteristic. it has become the most meaningful tom to me and the tuning problem went away once I found the purpose (the sound I wanted) for the tom.
Agreed, 14 and 16 floor toms are too similar in pitch. The 16 goes deeper, but the 14 has better tone. I'm seriously considering a single 15 floor tom on my next kit.
@@EricT43 Yeah, 14 and 16 are too close in tone, so to get a good sound i have to tune them a fourth or preferably a fifth apart. Here comes the problem: the 14 is more tensioned than the 16 and as such is also louder. Companies should make 15-18 floor tom combinations the standard or at least an option to choose from.
Interesting topic. I find on my kits that a 13" tom is always the most difficult to tune. 12" toms seems to fall in that real mid-range pitch that I find ok to tune and they sound decent. I find a square size (circa 1980s "power tom" sizes) like 12"x12" or 12"x10" sound great. I think that the problem that people have with 12" toms is that they are too shallow. A 10" or 12" depth really helps a 12" tom I find.
10” toms seem too small for me. Never get the sound i want either. 13 up, 14 and 16 down for me. I’d love to get better at playing smaller sizes. Love the look and sound of an extra 8” next to a 13.
I played a 12x9 gretsch new classic and it sounded amazing with a evans onyx head with a minor third interval between top and bottom head. I believe I did a B on top and a C# on the bottom. Now I’m playing a Ludwig classic maple kit with a 13x9 rack on a snare stand.
Agreed!! I’ve played for many years and my final and favorite size kit is 20B/10T/ 14F/ 14x5 snare!! Killer sound and all l need for massive sound! 💖💖💖
Ha, for me the problem is always with a 14" floor - never been able to make one sound right! As such I never really use a 10" as it's a 12" or 13" rack with 16" floor.
My 12×8 is my favorite drum on the kit. I can definitely relate to positioning problems, though; I used to gig almost exclusively on a 10, 13, 16" jungle kit, 18" Omni, 13" hats. Everything was small, close, and accessible. Now I've been practicing on double 24" kicks, 12, 13, 14" racks, 18" floor, 22" ride cymbal hard right over the floor tom. It's definitely different from an ergonomics standpoint, but still very fun and stimulating to play. It took some time experimenting with angles, but I can totally play freely and unencumbered. I wanted that sound that only big drums can offer, so mentally I was prepared to make the adjustment. It's like the difference between an ukulele and an 8 string guitar. They're different manifestations of the same fundamental idea.
I've played 12in toms and 22in kicks since I've played drums, My kit came with a 12x9 but i had to set it too high ao I found a 12x8 and that sits on a cymbal stand in order to get my kit as tight as possible. I've always wanted a small kit with a 20in kick because I'm not very tall and I think a smaller kit would improve my playing but until I can get one I'll work with what i have. I play a 4 piece kit and my ride sits tightly between my tom and right crash stand and it covers a 1/3rd of my floor tom and there is a few millimeters between everything to get it as tight as possible.
You described my tuning experience very accurately lol, i have an sp 12x8, and a pearl decade maple 12x9. i have a lot more trouble with the pearl tom then the sp tom. it sounds boxy and is hard to dial in the tone so that both heads can vibrate together. It sounded a lot better after i rounded over the bearing edges to a bigger ratio similar to the floor toms' bearing edge. I appreciate this video a lot.
I bought a 3 piece kit that came with a 20” bass, 14” floor tom and 12” rack tom and for so long I had trouble tuning it, so I just use the bass and floor tom, more of a minimalist setup but I ditched the tom 😂
Do love my 12" tom, but it's set up after the 13" on my set so that gets more action. Sonically they're not that far apart but won't change anything about the setup.
New drummer here, still getting this tuning thing down. I love this video. I can get everything dialed in easily except the 12er, which I'm constantly effing with it.😊
I have a much harder time tining the 14" floor tom since i play with an additional 16". Finding that sweet spot between the 12" and 16" is usually a pain.
My kit has not one but two twelve inch rack toms from different manufacturers. One is 12 x 8 and the other 12 x 10 and they are both mounted to my 22 kick drum. I also have a 13 x 12 inch tom I have mounted with leftover parts from broken snare and cymbal stands.
I feel this. I have an Sonor SQ1 kit and like a 2 up 2 down setup. currently its 8,12,16,18 but as soon as my 10' tom comes in from Sonor I'm going 8, 10, 16, 18. though wish I had a 14 instead of an 18'
I have a 12x7, and personally I’ve never struggled with it I tune to a fundamental of between an A and up to a C, usually tuning the top heading to an F# and the bottom head to a B above (perfect 4th), which gives about a B/Bb fundamental and it always works out!
The depth of my 12x9 tom combined with my 22x18 bass drum has ALWAYS drove me crazy. My next kit will have at least one of these be shallower so I can make it fit. I used to have a kit with a 13x10 middle tom and it drove me INSANE trying to find a good placement for it. I wish I had tried the offset tom thing back then. I wish I could just use the 2 floor toms thing but a second floor tom would be so far behind me that I would never touch it.
My first kit was a Genesis Series (Taiwan brand) back in 1993. The rack toms were 12" and 13" plus a 16" floor tom. Big rack toms were a thing during the 80's- 90's.
8x10 and 9x12 with a 18x22 kick Pearl kit here and I had to take both toms and mount them together to the left of the kick. I could never get the height I wanted for it to be mounted traditionally and it drove me nuts. Not to mention...yeah, it's hard to get a good tuning on that 12" tom.
Quick workarounds I found: Use a 12x5 Timbale for the 12 rack Tom. You gain 4 inches and it tunes closer to the 10 in tone. Use a 12x8 or 12x9 or 13x9 as a ‘rack mounted floor Tom’, to the right of the ride. This allows you to still get a higher note than a 14 floor Tom, and also let’s you put your real 14 or 16 floor tom 1 or 2 inches closer to you. If you already have both a 14 and 16, you now can do the cool guy thing and put your 16 to the left of your hi hat;) Best wishes!
Im running 20x16 bass, 10x7 rack tom and 14x14 floor tom. Feels more ergonomic than my old 22" pearl set i had. Also went with a Gretsch kit this time with Meinl cymbals. My old pearl kit had ziligian cymbals, so complete change of pace.
Wow ... all of those things. First time someone else talk about all those problems. I play a 20" bass drum at this point too with a 12x7 and the positioning is a pain. I've also never been able to get a sound out of one that I really liked. Thanks for letting me know i'm not the only one.
I've never had a problem tuning a 12" tom nor placing it above a 22" bass drum. But I play a different setup than he does: a 5, 6, or 7 piece kit with a 10 & 12 mounted on or above the bass drum.
Well, this definitely makes me feel better about the battle I’ve fought over the past couple months with my 12x8. I’m certain my wife thinks I’m obsessive after listening to me try to tune this thing over and over again. I even bought another 12x8 of the same model because I was convinced the resonant bearing edge was imperfect and that was the cause of my issues. Haha! Well, once my wife and dog are awake (it’s 3:00 AM), the 10x7 is going back on the kit and the 12x8s are going up in the attic. I’m hoping the 10 will be a better friend to my 14” floor tom. The 12 was a real jerk!
I also worked at Sam ash music and offered customers head replacements as a way to sell extra ESPS to hit my sales goals. I definitely noticed 12s being odd to tune. I used a drum dial for consistency but I felt like for some reason 12s have a hard time resonating like the other Tom sizes. Even when I had everything perfect on the dial and tuned up to pitch it’s not the same so I totally agree. But I think headchoice is also a really big factor I definitely felt like some heads were easier to tune other’s. I currently use coated emperors and get good results but I would also recommend any coated single ply if you aren’t a hard hitter and don’t pit heads you will definitely get more resonance and sustain.
This reminded me of Tama Hyperdrive rack toms. They came out when I was 1st yer at the university. I was blown away by their sounds. Back then STD kits are 12 and 13, moreover, some are power toms from old times. Low rack and ergonomic were new things.
For short people (like me), a 12x9 (even a 12x8) it's a mess to get it in a comfortable position, and when you have a 22 kick, it's impossible. Only the hyperdrive sized toms by Tama where really easily to adjust. I'm thinking to acquire a 20" or a 18" kick drum. My current set up, it's mostly like yours: 10", 14" and 16" toms, with a 22" bass drum. Also, the Benny Greb set it's very cool, 10 and 16 toms, those two voices make a great contrast of tones
I never so much had problems with the sound than I did with the feel of a 12in when I hit it. I’ve tuned them in every way possible and the way the stick reacts to the drum never felt right to me. The stick would either bounce back or dig into the drum from some cancellations in vibrations throughout the shell/head. Only time I got it to sound right was throwing Coated ambassadors on top and bottom.
I have a 20 year old Tama Starclassic. My 10” tom sounds absolutely beautiful. I have NEVER been able to make my 12” tom sound good, and have always struggled with placement above my kick. Glad I’m not the only one.
I love playing 12 and 16 tom setup. The secret is to tune the lowest tom first, tune low. If it sounds like a balloon loosen the bottom head. Then when you tune the rack tom, make it harmonize with the floor tom when hit together. If they don't harmonize, it will sound like shit when you play them.
Honnesty I never liked my 10 in rack tom. It's a bit too high pitched for me and I always miss it because it's so small. I'm gonna switch to a 12 in and 13 in rack tom because I've played some setups like that, and the ride cymbal is never an issue cause it's dirrectly above and to the right of my floor tom.
I use a four piece kit, but my 12 is to the left in place of my 10. I feel like the 10 is too high pitched and not as beefy mixed with the floor tom. I feel like the 12 balances and mixes better with everything as a whole.
I have a 10,12,14,16 toms and 22 bass, I switched the 10 and 12 tom around, so it goes 12,10,14,16 and i really like it much better than my 10. I'd love to get a 13,16,18 and 24x14 bass drum one day
Idk how I just saw this video, but I would definitely like to say that I finally got my 12 inch tom to work out. From placement to tuning... it took only 26 yrs to find it comfortable to work with🙄🙄
Adam for years and years, I thought that there was something wrong with me in tuning a 12 inch Rack Tom. Dude for years, like I didn't belong a drummer because I couldn't hear the son-of-a-sea-biscuit. Thank you for that story brother.
I guess I'm not the only one lol same reasons...I tried tuning my 12x9 (Tama Star Classic Birch kit) for so long I got fed up and sold the tom. I bought another 12x9 same thing I've come to hate that size. However, my 8x7, 10x8, then it jumps to 14x11 sounds perfect to me. Next time I get a kit no 12x9's for me it'll be 8,10,14 maybe a 16 and 20 kick I've been wanting to try one instead of 22.
I actually tuck my 12x8 under my aux hat with maybe 2 inches of overlap (2 hi hat pedal setup). It's a bit further away but it works since I have an offset pedal :) Also a lot of the 12" dead tom issues have been resolved due to this position.
I've own five, two of them are fantastic. Starclassic Maple 12x8 and DW Performance 12X9. For some reason the other 12s I owned sound okay when played lightly or hard, but anything in between sounds weird and they feel terrible in the stick.
I bought myself an entire custom drum (choice of woods, plies, sizes, finish...) and I wanted a big drum so I went with a 6 piece drum kit (10", 12", 14", 16", 20" BD and 13" snare). Turns out the 12" tom isn't as hard to tune as my past Sonor 13" maple tom but still kinda is. All other three toms are a breeze to tune though.
i have an 8, 10 and 12 rack toms, 14 and 16 floor toms. My dimensions are 8x8 10x9, 12x10, 14x12 and 16x14. My 12 is the only all maple shell as I have a Pearl reference kits. My 12 is so saweeeeeeeeet! My last reference kit had 8x7, 10x8 and 12x9 and it was sweet then too, but adding the inch really gave it additional tone. I find tuning the 12 as effortless as with my 8 and 10. If there was an issue anywhere, it would be my hanging 16, as I sometimes get it a little to low or a little too high with respect to my hanging 14. there was a time, like 45 years ago, I had a 5 piece that I had, 14x5 snare, 14 toms 16 and 18 FT and a 24X14 bass drum. That was not a unique set up back then. We all have that special sound in our head of what drums should sound like. I've found it for me. Preference is the spice of life!
I have beef with my second tom. It doesn't even matter what size it is. I've had a 12 and 13 inch second tom and they both gave me issues while the other toms didn't.
So i have 10-12 16 left 18 right. All cheap pearl export. I tune the 10 to 131hz; 12 to 87; 16 to 65 and the 18 supposed to go 54 but always measures the double. My 12 is 7 deep, so it fits nice and flat on the 22 BD. But the sound i like to get because of the drop off to 18 boom, should be 87hz, only the tom detunes in no time. So i am looking to replace to 13. But that tom is an inch deeper, and so i get to the wrong hight. So i need to get lug control to stop the detuning. Before i used 12-14, with the same pitching, that worked fine. But i had to put the toms like all 80's metal drummers, and then its hard to make rimshots on the toms. So i kinda wish the 13 pearl export tom where 7 inch deep as well, then i would have 10-13-16l-18r and the drop off ping to boom would be perfect. Actually, my toms are on a leg like a double bass setup, then there is enough space for an extra hi hat and a ride overlapping. Means the ride has to be locked. I also have a stack and a 10 snare over and underlapping the 20 ride, which will become a ride crash 18 all locked soon to have a little more space and its possible to hit the ride harder for a trashy sound. So space enough!
I also play a 4 pc kit and I like everything low. I use a snare stand for my rack tom which works great, as long as I don't over tighten the basket. Doing so kills the sound of any tom.
try a "hyperdrive" type of short 12" rack tom, it'll change your mind. I play drums pretty high so 12x9 is my 3rd rack tom slightly off center, my snare sits right between my 8" and 10" son its good for me, brich shells, not so hard to tune also. Is am Mapex 10yo drumkit
If you or someone you know is playing a 12” rack tom and you’d like to help them discover a better way to live, please have them visit OrlandoDrummer.com for help and other resources to assist them through this difficult time.
LoL
Brother I have a few 12" toms I love. My favorite is on my Maple / Mahogany kit. The kit is 22", 8",10",12",14". So it's one of the lower " floor " toms. Everyone laughs until they hear the kit. These drums are small but they punch. I think a lot of it has to do with the materials, and the heads. In the end it's preference and what sounds right for the song.
Brilliant comment hahaha
I had a 12" birch PDP tom. Never could make it sound good. I could actually tune the matching 10" tom lower. Maybe I'm not crazy.
Lmfao I love my 12” Tom, there IS A MIDDLE AREA when tuning it for sure, I usually keep the head loose-semi tight and it provides the best tone but that’s on preference cause if it’s not within range the overtone makes me want to cry.
Damn thats a surprise to me, I couldnt live without my 10 and 12 toms in front of me. I have a harder time tuning 16 usually
Simple trick for a 16". Take your resonant off and tune the batter up until you hear a proper tone,put the resonant back on and tune it up (in small steps) to a preferred pitch or acceptable resonance. From there, you can do to your batter head whatever you want. Go lower or higher depending on preference or genre.
I on the other end love 8, 10, 12 and 16 in front of me!
@@ekumusicYT You got a 16 rack tom?!!! Holy hell...
@@XiyuYang Ik you’re probably joking but Neil Peart had a 15in rack for a long time
I used to have my 10, 12, and 14 in front of me with 16 and 18 to the side. loved it, but I didn't like all the space it took up. ended up moving them around and leaving just the 10 and 12 in front with the 14 on the floor
Dang! I thought I was the only one thinking 12" toms sound so weird :D I had the exact issue with tuning with my 12" toms. Thats actually the reason why I switched to a 1 up 1 down set up with a 10 and 14". Also ride positioning is WAY better without that second rack tom
SAME. we are so on the same page lol. Plus 2 up 1 down looks weird and 1 up 1 down looks much better.
Yeah, I’m glad I’m not alone. My Black Panther kit came with a 12..... never on the kit. 10, 14, 16 for life.
Get better at tuning lol
i play 7 up 1 down, 6 & 8 roto toms above hi hat, 2 octobans behind the left most rack tom, 8, 12, 13 rack toms & then 16 floor tom. it would be nice to have my ride closer, especially for blast beats, i like the way my 13 sounds, but its too deep, so i got a 10" to have 8, 10, 12, making them lower, and giving me 3 inches to move my ride left.
But my 10 sounds totally wrong compared to my other toms.and i never particularly liked the way my 12 sounds
The 13" toms are even more hatefull to tune and the hardest to place.
I always have had more problems with the 13" myself.
I've found a 13" as a rack tom is a little harder to tune then a 13" floor. I played a sonor martini kit with a 13" floor and it was a breeze to tune and sounded amazing.
@@PerkChoppzDrums yeah well its a Sonor lol. Even the Chinese ones sound great.
Idk I love larger toms. Idc how hard they are to tune or how weird they look I love large 13x13 or 14x15 power racks on a 4 or 5 piece kit. A lot harder to come by these days
Agree 😢
I always liked my 12 inch tom, it was the most easy for me to tune
so this came as a surprise to me
Wonder what Art Blakey, Elvin Jones, Tony Williams, and so many other groundbreaking jazz drummers would think of this? They all used 12X8 racks, or 12X8 and 13X9 if they played with two racks. Toms weren't made in all different sizes so they had no other choices. But somehow, tuning didn't seem to be a problem for them, they made beautiful music with what they had.
Because they were in Jazz tuning up high and a 12" is great for that.
@@chardrum No, your response is far too simplistic, many ways to properly tune drums regardless of size, 12 inch can sound great in any setting (rock, metal, etc) with proper tuning. Try a kit with 18" kick, 14" floor, 13" and 12" racks, tune them properly (and not necessarily high-pitched) and they will sing. It's not until you get into the mini-me sizes (10" etc) that the sound goes south (can't comment on how easy/hard those sizes are to tune because I've never, and will never, play a mini-me drum, they sound like codswallop).
@@chardrumBut he was then talking more about THE TERRIBLE LIFE THREATENING HORROR... of... placing the drum..
Yes to all. 20,10, 14 all day. 10” rack toms are my fav. I would like to be in 16” floor tom club someday. If I rocked two racks I would do 8x7 with a 10x8
I play a 12x9 (wasn’t really a choice i could make) and i enjoyed this episode so much😂
i got a snare stand and is able to use a 12in tom as a small but great sounding fl. tom.
That's funny, because my 12x12 tom is the easiest to tune in my set up - the 14x13 is the most finicky/hardest to get to sing with the rest.
My 12 inch tom is my most easily tuned tom too! Its a Sonor Force 3007 kit.
@@jonnylikertrommer I used to have that kit! Yeah, I found the same thing. I play a Saturn V exotic now, and my 12 on that is easy to tune as well. It all depends where your starting point is, I guess. I wonder how Adam would feel if he just started with a 12 instead of the 10; because his biggest complaints were it was "hard to find the middle note when starting with a 10, and it takes up the space where he likes his ride". Start with the 12 (have 1 up and 2 down like he already does, but with a 12 as the top), still leave space for his ride, and not have to deal with finding a middle note if that's the first fundamental and no 10". Personally, I like all sorts of configs depending on the context. If just left setup in the studio, I usually leave all the toms up, and I find my 12×8" on the Saturn one of the easiest to tune. It's usually getting that 14×12 right where I want it that's a little tricky, so it matches well with the last fundamental of the 16×14 and the previous 12, but still sings well without being left so low it detunes frequently. I also have a Gretsch Catalina with deeper toms in the same dimensions, and the 12 is what I usually leave as the top if I'm doing 1 up (granted, it's usually what my students play on as the second kit). Lastly, I use a left and a right ride (20 and 22) and the Saturn has cymbal mounts for the toms, so I run into the same configuration/setup puzzles for finding the right angles and distances for my rides when using 2 up; but still manage to get it all nice and comfortable within about 15 minutes, without anything overlapping or crowding to where I misfire. To each their own, I guess! But, I've honestly never found 12s to be all that difficult to use/tune, and when tuned right or used in the right context, adds a great sound to the setup. Happy drumming!
I dont know how deep my 14” mounted tom is on my mapex, but is shorter, and is hell to tune”
@@Wut88 Mapex is usually a 14×12. But, I'm not sure what series you have. Yeah, it's usually one of the trickier ones to get "just" right; but once it's there, sounds great! At least, on my Saturn. Mine aren't mounted though, they're on the floor. Mapex usually makes more box drums. My Gretsch Catalina shells in the same dimensions are like 2-4" deeper per tom; but solely maple. The Saturn with that walnut/hybrid shell just hits me the right way. Kinda like a birch, but more warmth. Happy drumming, my dude!
@@blakenunndrums yeah Ive had my mapex pro m for like 18 years, at first I used the whole set.. 10 12 14 16 , then just the 12 14 16 , cause I started experimenting with one tom (and I love 12s), and eventually I just went with 12" and 16".. thats when I realized I hated the 14" , lol but now I got a smaller kit (gretsch catalina with 18" bass drum) and the 14" is now my favorite part of the kit... now the 12" is kind of "meh" , and also the hardest to tune
I had this exact issue with my Starclassic Walnut/Birch kit. 22” kick and 10x8 and 12x9 rack....I tried for two hours and couldn’t get the toms where I wanted them. I read all about how amazing the mounting hardware with this kit was and how flexible it was from a setup standpoint....and I couldn’t make it work to the point that I almost sent the kit back. I ended up mounting it to my ride cymbal stand in the floor tom position and tuning it down...and I love it! Basically I have a one up/two down setup now but it was the only way I could make it work. My SJC Custom kit is a 12x8 over a 20” kick and I have had no issues with it but I just scrapped the second rack tom altogether on that kit and went 12-14-16.
Not gonna lie I’m proud of the sound I got out of my 12” Tom. Still use it today lol
I've always heard the more square the drum, the more difficult to tune. My main kit has 8x6, 10x7, 12x8, rack toms & 16x14FT, 20x20 kick. They usually play nice with each other.
Can always tell when Adam's gears are really turning...he starts fiddling with that one dread 😁
I felt the same way with the 10 inch tom until I figured out the mounting hardware and room was chocking it.
I've always had a strange relationship with the 12" toms also. I have a method to tuning my kit, and it works on everything, but the 12" ALWAYS sounds weird compared to the others and needs more tweaking. I use to think it was just one of my old kits, but it's been this way on every kit I've had. I think it just wants to be tuned higher than I want to tune it.
I have never had any such issues. In fact, I have two 12" rack toms with only 1" difference in depth, and I never have issues. I tune one up a bit and one down a bit, and there's plenty of separation to play both, or pick and choose which one to use for specific songs. They fit quite nicely in the line around the kit.
I've always found easy to tune my 12" tom, and liked the sound 🤷♂️
Same, It's pretty easy for me,however, 13 inch toms and 18 inch Floor toms can be tricky!
Personally, I love a 12. They sound good low and beefy, or high and poppy. 14's are what I can't work with. Not low enough to be a floor tom IMO, not high enough to be a rack. I bought a lot of sizes for my 3007 so I can swap them out for different reasons. I went with 10, 12, 13, 16, 18. No matter which configuration, I can get a good tonal spread and find good tuning intervals.
I agree with this. love my 12 inch tom. my 14 sounds good but the lugs are so loose, they easily unwind and fall out at the bottom. I will try bigger floor tom(s) soon.
Im glad im not the only one that feels this way. When I got my custom kit I ordered 10x7” 13x8” 16x16” toms with a 20x14” kick.
It made tuning SOOOOO MUCH EASIER.
Wow, great sizes!! What did you get?
@@EduanSnarfHendrix Drums Perfect Ply Walnut kit.
I remember back in 1970s when 8x12 and 9x13 were standard sizes.
They need to bring that back
9x13 is still my go to
😂😂😂 oh my god this is so true...I have a 10 and a 12 and my god that 12 goes “boIIINggGggg” urghhh
Got 8, 10, 12, 14 and 16 inch toms everything blends together except that damn 12. Dont know where it fits in the sound but it feels awesome
I have this problem too. Just can't get the transition from the 10 to a 14, smooth. I went with a 13 instead of the 14. Much easier transition.
Problem solved with a 12" on a stand, that's what I did with mine and I could put it off the bass drum
I hate racks in general. Rack toms are the worst - stands only.
@@archologyzero yeah it's pretty cool that way you can put the toms anywhere you want. I used to put my small rack tom off to the left and then I would put another tom next to my floor tom back in the 90s.. but yeah you can get pretty creative on stands
I find that very interesting. at first, I also hated my 12 inch tom and never got it to sound right. but I recently came around and now I love it. the reason is that I listen to and play mostly rock and metal music. in that genre I find that the 12 inch tom is irreplacable, because it has a unique transition characteristic. it has become the most meaningful tom to me and the tuning problem went away once I found the purpose (the sound I wanted) for the tom.
I more so got beef with a 14” floor tom. Drum companies should stop with that bs, make it a 15” floor Tom at least smh preferably 16” though
Agreed, 14 and 16 floor toms are too similar in pitch. The 16 goes deeper, but the 14 has better tone. I'm seriously considering a single 15 floor tom on my next kit.
Agreed lol
14 is my favorite. :(
@@EricT43 Yeah, 14 and 16 are too close in tone, so to get a good sound i have to tune them a fourth or preferably a fifth apart. Here comes the problem: the 14 is more tensioned than the 16 and as such is also louder. Companies should make 15-18 floor tom combinations the standard or at least an option to choose from.
15in floor toms go so so hard. 10,13,15 and 20 are my dream sizes
Interesting topic. I find on my kits that a 13" tom is always the most difficult to tune. 12" toms seems to fall in that real mid-range pitch that I find ok to tune and they sound decent. I find a square size (circa 1980s "power tom" sizes) like 12"x12" or 12"x10" sound great. I think that the problem that people have with 12" toms is that they are too shallow. A 10" or 12" depth really helps a 12" tom I find.
Me too. I always have more trouble with my 13". I like the look and sound of my 12x9.
10” toms seem too small for me. Never get the sound i want either. 13 up, 14 and 16 down for me. I’d love to get better at playing smaller sizes. Love the look and sound of an extra 8” next to a 13.
I wasn’t either until I got my 12x6 rack Tom. I was able to adjust it more and I tuned better than a deeper one.
I played a 12x9 gretsch new classic and it sounded amazing with a evans onyx head with a minor third interval between top and bottom head. I believe I did a B on top and a C# on the bottom. Now I’m playing a Ludwig classic maple kit with a 13x9 rack on a snare stand.
Agreed!! I’ve played for many years and my final and favorite size kit is 20B/10T/ 14F/ 14x5 snare!! Killer sound and all l need for massive sound! 💖💖💖
Ha, for me the problem is always with a 14" floor - never been able to make one sound right! As such I never really use a 10" as it's a 12" or 13" rack with 16" floor.
My 12×8 is my favorite drum on the kit. I can definitely relate to positioning problems, though; I used to gig almost exclusively on a 10, 13, 16" jungle kit, 18" Omni, 13" hats. Everything was small, close, and accessible. Now I've been practicing on double 24" kicks, 12, 13, 14" racks, 18" floor, 22" ride cymbal hard right over the floor tom. It's definitely different from an ergonomics standpoint, but still very fun and stimulating to play. It took some time experimenting with angles, but I can totally play freely and unencumbered. I wanted that sound that only big drums can offer, so mentally I was prepared to make the adjustment. It's like the difference between an ukulele and an 8 string guitar. They're different manifestations of the same fundamental idea.
I eliminated all of my 12" tuning problems by eliminating the 13" from every kit I've had. I recently went away from power sizes, great decision
That’s wild to me. 12x8 rack toms have been so much easier to me as far as tom tuning. I love the wide range of sounds I’ve been able get out of it.
I've played 12in toms and 22in kicks since I've played drums, My kit came with a 12x9 but i had to set it too high ao I found a 12x8 and that sits on a cymbal stand in order to get my kit as tight as possible. I've always wanted a small kit with a 20in kick because I'm not very tall and I think a smaller kit would improve my playing but until I can get one I'll work with what i have. I play a 4 piece kit and my ride sits tightly between my tom and right crash stand and it covers a 1/3rd of my floor tom and there is a few millimeters between everything to get it as tight as possible.
I have a 13" rack and an 18" floor tom on my personal set. My church has a 12" rack and this explains why I can't seem to get it sounding good!!
Just reset my Slingerlands to 13,14,18,22 yesterday tuned right up.
My 12 made my snare buzz.
You described my tuning experience very accurately lol, i have an sp 12x8, and a pearl decade maple 12x9. i have a lot more trouble with the pearl tom then the sp tom. it sounds boxy and is hard to dial in the tone so that both heads can vibrate together.
It sounded a lot better after i rounded over the bearing edges to a bigger ratio similar to the floor toms' bearing edge. I appreciate this video a lot.
I bought a 3 piece kit that came with a 20” bass, 14” floor tom and 12” rack tom and for so long I had trouble tuning it, so I just use the bass and floor tom, more of a minimalist setup but I ditched the tom 😂
i couldn't agree more. I just can't get down with a second rack tom, i've tried many times. i hate it.
Man I have a 12x7 Tom on my Starclassic hyperdrive and it’s SO hard to tune, it’s so annoying 🤦🏾♂️
Dave Weckl has the ride positioning delima nailed down while also having a super ergonomic set up for his style of playing
I had a 22 12 13 16 rock kit which morphed into a 10 12 14 kit. Never been so glad to retire that 13" tom, it was my NEMESIS
Do love my 12" tom, but it's set up after the 13" on my set so that gets more action. Sonically they're not that far apart but won't change anything about the setup.
So what size do you use Adam? I have a 13x9 with a 22” kick and yeah it’s big and does get in the way a little
weird I HAD to get rid of my factory 13" tom and replace it with a 12" to hit the sound I needed/wanted.
New drummer here, still getting this tuning thing down. I love this video. I can get everything dialed in easily except the 12er, which I'm constantly effing with it.😊
I have a much harder time tining the 14" floor tom since i play with an additional 16". Finding that sweet spot between the 12" and 16" is usually a pain.
Ive had more trouble with my 10" rack and 18" floor tom,
My kit has not one but two twelve inch rack toms from different manufacturers. One is 12 x 8 and the other 12 x 10 and they are both mounted to my 22 kick drum. I also have a 13 x 12 inch tom I have mounted with leftover parts from broken snare and cymbal stands.
I feel this. I have an Sonor SQ1 kit and like a 2 up 2 down setup. currently its 8,12,16,18 but as soon as my 10' tom comes in from Sonor I'm going 8, 10, 16, 18. though wish I had a 14 instead of an 18'
I have an '05 Superstar Custom kit with 12" & 13" rack toms on a 22" kick drum, no problems tuning, they sound great!!!
I have a 12x7, and personally I’ve never struggled with it
I tune to a fundamental of between an A and up to a C, usually tuning the top heading to an F# and the bottom head to a B above (perfect 4th), which gives about a B/Bb fundamental and it always works out!
The depth of my 12x9 tom combined with my 22x18 bass drum has ALWAYS drove me crazy. My next kit will have at least one of these be shallower so I can make it fit. I used to have a kit with a 13x10 middle tom and it drove me INSANE trying to find a good placement for it. I wish I had tried the offset tom thing back then. I wish I could just use the 2 floor toms thing but a second floor tom would be so far behind me that I would never touch it.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! CAN JUST ONE DRUM COMPANY MAKE AN 11in RACK TOM! i’d buy that shit instantly
Tama did back in the late 80's early 90's I seem to recall.
Craviotto does
good luck getting heads lol
My first kit was a Genesis Series (Taiwan brand) back in 1993. The rack toms were 12" and 13" plus a 16" floor tom. Big rack toms were a thing during the 80's- 90's.
8x10 and 9x12 with a 18x22 kick Pearl kit here and I had to take both toms and mount them together to the left of the kick. I could never get the height I wanted for it to be mounted traditionally and it drove me nuts. Not to mention...yeah, it's hard to get a good tuning on that 12" tom.
Quick workarounds I found:
Use a 12x5 Timbale for the 12 rack Tom. You gain 4 inches and it tunes closer to the 10 in tone.
Use a 12x8 or 12x9 or 13x9 as a ‘rack mounted floor Tom’, to the right of the ride. This allows you to still get a higher note than a 14 floor Tom, and also let’s you put your real 14 or 16 floor tom 1 or 2 inches closer to you. If you already have both a 14 and 16, you now can do the cool guy thing and put your 16 to the left of your hi hat;)
Best wishes!
I totally get what he’s saying about the tuning and height. I had to get a 12x7 inch floor Tom before I could get really comfortable with it.
Im running 20x16 bass, 10x7 rack tom and 14x14 floor tom. Feels more ergonomic than my old 22" pearl set i had. Also went with a Gretsch kit this time with Meinl cymbals. My old pearl kit had ziligian cymbals, so complete change of pace.
I have a 12 x 8 rack tom, a 14 x 14 floor tom, and a 16 x 16 2nd floor tom
Wow ... all of those things. First time someone else talk about all those problems. I play a 20" bass drum at this point too with a 12x7 and the positioning is a pain. I've also never been able to get a sound out of one that I really liked. Thanks for letting me know i'm not the only one.
I've never had a problem tuning a 12" tom nor placing it above a 22" bass drum. But I play a different setup than he does: a 5, 6, or 7 piece kit with a 10 & 12 mounted on or above the bass drum.
I totally agree with what you said. I'm glad someone else feels the same way 🤗
Well, this definitely makes me feel better about the battle I’ve fought over the past couple months with my 12x8. I’m certain my wife thinks I’m obsessive after listening to me try to tune this thing over and over again. I even bought another 12x8 of the same model because I was convinced the resonant bearing edge was imperfect and that was the cause of my issues. Haha! Well, once my wife and dog are awake (it’s 3:00 AM), the 10x7 is going back on the kit and the 12x8s are going up in the attic. I’m hoping the 10 will be a better friend to my 14” floor tom. The 12 was a real jerk!
I also worked at Sam ash music and offered customers head replacements as a way to sell extra ESPS to hit my sales goals. I definitely noticed 12s being odd to tune. I used a drum dial for consistency but I felt like for some reason 12s have a hard time resonating like the other Tom sizes. Even when I had everything perfect on the dial and tuned up to pitch it’s not the same so I totally agree. But I think headchoice is also a really big factor I definitely felt like some heads were easier to tune other’s. I currently use coated emperors and get good results but I would also recommend any coated single ply if you aren’t a hard hitter and don’t pit heads you will definitely get more resonance and sustain.
What about the heads? Did you try different batter and resonant? Different brands? You can get a great whump from a 12. But I do prefer 13s.
This reminded me of Tama Hyperdrive rack toms. They came out when I was 1st yer at the university. I was blown away by their sounds. Back then STD kits are 12 and 13, moreover, some are power toms from old times. Low rack and ergonomic were new things.
For short people (like me), a 12x9 (even a 12x8) it's a mess to get it in a comfortable position, and when you have a 22 kick, it's impossible. Only the hyperdrive sized toms by Tama where really easily to adjust. I'm thinking to acquire a 20" or a 18" kick drum.
My current set up, it's mostly like yours: 10", 14" and 16" toms, with a 22" bass drum. Also, the Benny Greb set it's very cool, 10 and 16 toms, those two voices make a great contrast of tones
I have this exact problem with my 12 inch tom as far as spacing. I've never once had it where I've wanted it.
I never so much had problems with the sound than I did with the feel of a 12in when I hit it. I’ve tuned them in every way possible and the way the stick reacts to the drum never felt right to me. The stick would either bounce back or dig into the drum from some cancellations in vibrations throughout the shell/head. Only time I got it to sound right was throwing Coated ambassadors on top and bottom.
I would love to get a 14, 16, 18, 24 kit
I have a 20 year old Tama Starclassic. My 10” tom sounds absolutely beautiful. I have NEVER been able to make my 12” tom sound good, and have always struggled with placement above my kick. Glad I’m not the only one.
I just took my 12 inch tom off recently. I’m digging 13 rack and 14, 16 floor toms
I love playing 12 and 16 tom setup.
The secret is to tune the lowest tom first, tune low. If it sounds like a balloon loosen the bottom head.
Then when you tune the rack tom, make it harmonize with the floor tom when hit together. If they don't harmonize, it will sound like shit when you play them.
Honnesty I never liked my 10 in rack tom. It's a bit too high pitched for me and I always miss it because it's so small. I'm gonna switch to a 12 in and 13 in rack tom because I've played some setups like that, and the ride cymbal is never an issue cause it's dirrectly above and to the right of my floor tom.
I use a four piece kit, but my 12 is to the left in place of my 10. I feel like the 10 is too high pitched and not as beefy mixed with the floor tom. I feel like the 12 balances and mixes better with everything as a whole.
I have a 10,12,14,16 toms and 22 bass, I switched the 10 and 12 tom around, so it goes 12,10,14,16 and i really like it much better than my 10. I'd love to get a 13,16,18 and 24x14 bass drum one day
I've always felt the same! 13 x 9 rules the world. Ergonomically that extra inch makes a big difference and they sound sooooo good.
I have a custom 11 by 8.5 talk about weird and trying to tune between the 10 and 12 alittle frustrating but you know drummer problems
12s are tricky..but I cant go without her..
Idk how I just saw this video, but I would definitely like to say that I finally got my 12 inch tom to work out. From placement to tuning... it took only 26 yrs to find it comfortable to work with🙄🙄
Adam for years and years,
I thought that there was something wrong with me in tuning a 12 inch Rack Tom. Dude for years, like I didn't belong a drummer because I couldn't hear the son-of-a-sea-biscuit. Thank you for that story brother.
I guess I'm not the only one lol same reasons...I tried tuning my 12x9 (Tama Star Classic Birch kit) for so long I got fed up and sold the tom. I bought another 12x9 same thing I've come to hate that size. However, my 8x7, 10x8, then it jumps to 14x11 sounds perfect to me. Next time I get a kit no 12x9's for me it'll be 8,10,14 maybe a 16 and 20 kick I've been wanting to try one instead of 22.
Are mapex the easiest to tune in your opinion?
I use 12 14 16 20 I have no problem with the 12 or 14 but that 16 gives me the most trouble. I can never get the resonate head to sound the way I want
I actually tuck my 12x8 under my aux hat with maybe 2 inches of overlap (2 hi hat pedal setup). It's a bit further away but it works since I have an offset pedal :) Also a lot of the 12" dead tom issues have been resolved due to this position.
I've own five, two of them are fantastic. Starclassic Maple 12x8 and DW Performance 12X9. For some reason the other 12s I owned sound okay when played lightly or hard, but anything in between sounds weird and they feel terrible in the stick.
Now I understand why my 12” has been in its case under the steps for 8 years😂
Good video
Many thanks
I feel the same way dude! I’ve got mine packed up.
10/8 Rack and 2 floors. Yeah you crushed this one brother.
Start tuning the floors and go up to the smaller toms and embrace the fundamental note of the drum. For me it works to get a good sound each drum
Try setting up 10,12,13,14,16,18,22 with power toms. Fun!
I bought myself an entire custom drum (choice of woods, plies, sizes, finish...) and I wanted a big drum so I went with a 6 piece drum kit (10", 12", 14", 16", 20" BD and 13" snare). Turns out the 12" tom isn't as hard to tune as my past Sonor 13" maple tom but still kinda is. All other three toms are a breeze to tune though.
12x8 : Yes , 12x9 : NO. Ahah
I feel the same way about difficult placement. That said, people been using 13" toms over 24" kicks for days.
i have an 8, 10 and 12 rack toms, 14 and 16 floor toms. My dimensions are 8x8 10x9, 12x10, 14x12 and 16x14. My 12 is the only all maple shell as I have a Pearl reference kits. My 12 is so saweeeeeeeeet! My last reference kit had 8x7, 10x8 and 12x9 and it was sweet then too, but adding the inch really gave it additional tone. I find tuning the 12 as effortless as with my 8 and 10. If there was an issue anywhere, it would be my hanging 16, as I sometimes get it a little to low or a little too high with respect to my hanging 14. there was a time, like 45 years ago, I had a 5 piece that I had, 14x5 snare, 14 toms 16 and 18 FT and a 24X14 bass drum. That was not a unique set up back then. We all have that special sound in our head of what drums should sound like. I've found it for me. Preference is the spice of life!
I have beef with my second tom. It doesn't even matter what size it is. I've had a 12 and 13 inch second tom and they both gave me issues while the other toms didn't.
So i have 10-12 16 left 18 right. All cheap pearl export. I tune the 10 to 131hz; 12 to 87; 16 to 65 and the 18 supposed to go 54 but always measures the double.
My 12 is 7 deep, so it fits nice and flat on the 22 BD.
But the sound i like to get because of the drop off to 18 boom, should be 87hz, only the tom detunes in no time. So i am looking to replace to 13. But that tom is an inch deeper, and so i get to the wrong hight. So i need to get lug control to stop the detuning.
Before i used 12-14, with the same pitching, that worked fine. But i had to put the toms like all 80's metal drummers, and then its hard to make rimshots on the toms.
So i kinda wish the 13 pearl export tom where 7 inch deep as well, then i would have 10-13-16l-18r and the drop off ping to boom would be perfect.
Actually, my toms are on a leg like a double bass setup, then there is enough space for an extra hi hat and a ride overlapping. Means the ride has to be locked. I also have a stack and a 10 snare over and underlapping the 20 ride, which will become a ride crash 18 all locked soon to have a little more space and its possible to hit the ride harder for a trashy sound. So space enough!
Lol I play a 12x9 over a 22" kick. And I LOVE it😂
I also play a 4 pc kit and I like everything low. I use a snare stand for my rack tom which works great, as long as I don't over tighten the basket. Doing so kills the sound of any tom.
try a "hyperdrive" type of short 12" rack tom, it'll change your mind.
I play drums pretty high so 12x9 is my 3rd rack tom slightly off center, my snare sits right between my 8" and 10" son its good for me, brich shells, not so hard to tune also. Is am Mapex 10yo drumkit