If you or someone you know is playing a 12” rack tom and you’d like to help them discover a better way to live, please have them visit OrlandoDrummer.com for help and other resources to assist them through this difficult time.
Brother I have a few 12" toms I love. My favorite is on my Maple / Mahogany kit. The kit is 22", 8",10",12",14". So it's one of the lower " floor " toms. Everyone laughs until they hear the kit. These drums are small but they punch. I think a lot of it has to do with the materials, and the heads. In the end it's preference and what sounds right for the song.
Lmfao I love my 12” Tom, there IS A MIDDLE AREA when tuning it for sure, I usually keep the head loose-semi tight and it provides the best tone but that’s on preference cause if it’s not within range the overtone makes me want to cry.
Dang! I thought I was the only one thinking 12" toms sound so weird :D I had the exact issue with tuning with my 12" toms. Thats actually the reason why I switched to a 1 up 1 down set up with a 10 and 14". Also ride positioning is WAY better without that second rack tom
i play 7 up 1 down, 6 & 8 roto toms above hi hat, 2 octobans behind the left most rack tom, 8, 12, 13 rack toms & then 16 floor tom. it would be nice to have my ride closer, especially for blast beats, i like the way my 13 sounds, but its too deep, so i got a 10" to have 8, 10, 12, making them lower, and giving me 3 inches to move my ride left. But my 10 sounds totally wrong compared to my other toms.and i never particularly liked the way my 12 sounds
Simple trick for a 16". Take your resonant off and tune the batter up until you hear a proper tone,put the resonant back on and tune it up (in small steps) to a preferred pitch or acceptable resonance. From there, you can do to your batter head whatever you want. Go lower or higher depending on preference or genre.
I used to have my 10, 12, and 14 in front of me with 16 and 18 to the side. loved it, but I didn't like all the space it took up. ended up moving them around and leaving just the 10 and 12 in front with the 14 on the floor
Yes to all. 20,10, 14 all day. 10” rack toms are my fav. I would like to be in 16” floor tom club someday. If I rocked two racks I would do 8x7 with a 10x8
Wonder what Art Blakey, Elvin Jones, Tony Williams, and so many other groundbreaking jazz drummers would think of this? They all used 12X8 racks, or 12X8 and 13X9 if they played with two racks. Toms weren't made in all different sizes so they had no other choices. But somehow, tuning didn't seem to be a problem for them, they made beautiful music with what they had.
@@chardrum No, your response is far too simplistic, many ways to properly tune drums regardless of size, 12 inch can sound great in any setting (rock, metal, etc) with proper tuning. Try a kit with 18" kick, 14" floor, 13" and 12" racks, tune them properly (and not necessarily high-pitched) and they will sing. It's not until you get into the mini-me sizes (10" etc) that the sound goes south (can't comment on how easy/hard those sizes are to tune because I've never, and will never, play a mini-me drum, they sound like codswallop).
I've found a 13" as a rack tom is a little harder to tune then a 13" floor. I played a sonor martini kit with a 13" floor and it was a breeze to tune and sounded amazing.
Idk I love larger toms. Idc how hard they are to tune or how weird they look I love large 13x13 or 14x15 power racks on a 4 or 5 piece kit. A lot harder to come by these days
I had this exact issue with my Starclassic Walnut/Birch kit. 22” kick and 10x8 and 12x9 rack....I tried for two hours and couldn’t get the toms where I wanted them. I read all about how amazing the mounting hardware with this kit was and how flexible it was from a setup standpoint....and I couldn’t make it work to the point that I almost sent the kit back. I ended up mounting it to my ride cymbal stand in the floor tom position and tuning it down...and I love it! Basically I have a one up/two down setup now but it was the only way I could make it work. My SJC Custom kit is a 12x8 over a 20” kick and I have had no issues with it but I just scrapped the second rack tom altogether on that kit and went 12-14-16.
I've always heard the more square the drum, the more difficult to tune. My main kit has 8x6, 10x7, 12x8, rack toms & 16x14FT, 20x20 kick. They usually play nice with each other.
Im glad im not the only one that feels this way. When I got my custom kit I ordered 10x7” 13x8” 16x16” toms with a 20x14” kick. It made tuning SOOOOO MUCH EASIER.
@@jonnylikertrommer I used to have that kit! Yeah, I found the same thing. I play a Saturn V exotic now, and my 12 on that is easy to tune as well. It all depends where your starting point is, I guess. I wonder how Adam would feel if he just started with a 12 instead of the 10; because his biggest complaints were it was "hard to find the middle note when starting with a 10, and it takes up the space where he likes his ride". Start with the 12 (have 1 up and 2 down like he already does, but with a 12 as the top), still leave space for his ride, and not have to deal with finding a middle note if that's the first fundamental and no 10". Personally, I like all sorts of configs depending on the context. If just left setup in the studio, I usually leave all the toms up, and I find my 12×8" on the Saturn one of the easiest to tune. It's usually getting that 14×12 right where I want it that's a little tricky, so it matches well with the last fundamental of the 16×14 and the previous 12, but still sings well without being left so low it detunes frequently. I also have a Gretsch Catalina with deeper toms in the same dimensions, and the 12 is what I usually leave as the top if I'm doing 1 up (granted, it's usually what my students play on as the second kit). Lastly, I use a left and a right ride (20 and 22) and the Saturn has cymbal mounts for the toms, so I run into the same configuration/setup puzzles for finding the right angles and distances for my rides when using 2 up; but still manage to get it all nice and comfortable within about 15 minutes, without anything overlapping or crowding to where I misfire. To each their own, I guess! But, I've honestly never found 12s to be all that difficult to use/tune, and when tuned right or used in the right context, adds a great sound to the setup. Happy drumming!
@@Wut88 Mapex is usually a 14×12. But, I'm not sure what series you have. Yeah, it's usually one of the trickier ones to get "just" right; but once it's there, sounds great! At least, on my Saturn. Mine aren't mounted though, they're on the floor. Mapex usually makes more box drums. My Gretsch Catalina shells in the same dimensions are like 2-4" deeper per tom; but solely maple. The Saturn with that walnut/hybrid shell just hits me the right way. Kinda like a birch, but more warmth. Happy drumming, my dude!
@@blakenunndrums yeah Ive had my mapex pro m for like 18 years, at first I used the whole set.. 10 12 14 16 , then just the 12 14 16 , cause I started experimenting with one tom (and I love 12s), and eventually I just went with 12" and 16".. thats when I realized I hated the 14" , lol but now I got a smaller kit (gretsch catalina with 18" bass drum) and the 14" is now my favorite part of the kit... now the 12" is kind of "meh" , and also the hardest to tune
Personally, I love a 12. They sound good low and beefy, or high and poppy. 14's are what I can't work with. Not low enough to be a floor tom IMO, not high enough to be a rack. I bought a lot of sizes for my 3007 so I can swap them out for different reasons. I went with 10, 12, 13, 16, 18. No matter which configuration, I can get a good tonal spread and find good tuning intervals.
I agree with this. love my 12 inch tom. my 14 sounds good but the lugs are so loose, they easily unwind and fall out at the bottom. I will try bigger floor tom(s) soon.
I have never had any such issues. In fact, I have two 12" rack toms with only 1" difference in depth, and I never have issues. I tune one up a bit and one down a bit, and there's plenty of separation to play both, or pick and choose which one to use for specific songs. They fit quite nicely in the line around the kit.
I find that very interesting. at first, I also hated my 12 inch tom and never got it to sound right. but I recently came around and now I love it. the reason is that I listen to and play mostly rock and metal music. in that genre I find that the 12 inch tom is irreplacable, because it has a unique transition characteristic. it has become the most meaningful tom to me and the tuning problem went away once I found the purpose (the sound I wanted) for the tom.
I've always had a strange relationship with the 12" toms also. I have a method to tuning my kit, and it works on everything, but the 12" ALWAYS sounds weird compared to the others and needs more tweaking. I use to think it was just one of my old kits, but it's been this way on every kit I've had. I think it just wants to be tuned higher than I want to tune it.
Interesting topic. I find on my kits that a 13" tom is always the most difficult to tune. 12" toms seems to fall in that real mid-range pitch that I find ok to tune and they sound decent. I find a square size (circa 1980s "power tom" sizes) like 12"x12" or 12"x10" sound great. I think that the problem that people have with 12" toms is that they are too shallow. A 10" or 12" depth really helps a 12" tom I find.
@@archologyzero yeah it's pretty cool that way you can put the toms anywhere you want. I used to put my small rack tom off to the left and then I would put another tom next to my floor tom back in the 90s.. but yeah you can get pretty creative on stands
10” toms seem too small for me. Never get the sound i want either. 13 up, 14 and 16 down for me. I’d love to get better at playing smaller sizes. Love the look and sound of an extra 8” next to a 13.
I use my 12x9 quite a bit, I think it sounds wonderful and I have no problem tuning it. I have drums in all sizes from 8 to 18 and, as long as you know what you're doing, you can tune any of those sizes easily.
I played a 12x9 gretsch new classic and it sounded amazing with a evans onyx head with a minor third interval between top and bottom head. I believe I did a B on top and a C# on the bottom. Now I’m playing a Ludwig classic maple kit with a 13x9 rack on a snare stand.
Im running 20x16 bass, 10x7 rack tom and 14x14 floor tom. Feels more ergonomic than my old 22" pearl set i had. Also went with a Gretsch kit this time with Meinl cymbals. My old pearl kit had ziligian cymbals, so complete change of pace.
Agreed!! I’ve played for many years and my final and favorite size kit is 20B/10T/ 14F/ 14x5 snare!! Killer sound and all l need for massive sound! 💖💖💖
Quick workarounds I found: Use a 12x5 Timbale for the 12 rack Tom. You gain 4 inches and it tunes closer to the 10 in tone. Use a 12x8 or 12x9 or 13x9 as a ‘rack mounted floor Tom’, to the right of the ride. This allows you to still get a higher note than a 14 floor Tom, and also let’s you put your real 14 or 16 floor tom 1 or 2 inches closer to you. If you already have both a 14 and 16, you now can do the cool guy thing and put your 16 to the left of your hi hat;) Best wishes!
I love playing 12 and 16 tom setup. The secret is to tune the lowest tom first, tune low. If it sounds like a balloon loosen the bottom head. Then when you tune the rack tom, make it harmonize with the floor tom when hit together. If they don't harmonize, it will sound like shit when you play them.
My 12×8 is my favorite drum on the kit. I can definitely relate to positioning problems, though; I used to gig almost exclusively on a 10, 13, 16" jungle kit, 18" Omni, 13" hats. Everything was small, close, and accessible. Now I've been practicing on double 24" kicks, 12, 13, 14" racks, 18" floor, 22" ride cymbal hard right over the floor tom. It's definitely different from an ergonomics standpoint, but still very fun and stimulating to play. It took some time experimenting with angles, but I can totally play freely and unencumbered. I wanted that sound that only big drums can offer, so mentally I was prepared to make the adjustment. It's like the difference between an ukulele and an 8 string guitar. They're different manifestations of the same fundamental idea.
Idk why but his disdain for 12 toms made laugh so much, I love hearing drummers I admire talk about drums and cymbal preferences, I feel like there aren't enough videos of the kind out there.
I have a 12x7, and personally I’ve never struggled with it I tune to a fundamental of between an A and up to a C, usually tuning the top heading to an F# and the bottom head to a B above (perfect 4th), which gives about a B/Bb fundamental and it always works out!
I have a 20 year old Tama Starclassic. My 10” tom sounds absolutely beautiful. I have NEVER been able to make my 12” tom sound good, and have always struggled with placement above my kick. Glad I’m not the only one.
I've played 12in toms and 22in kicks since I've played drums, My kit came with a 12x9 but i had to set it too high ao I found a 12x8 and that sits on a cymbal stand in order to get my kit as tight as possible. I've always wanted a small kit with a 20in kick because I'm not very tall and I think a smaller kit would improve my playing but until I can get one I'll work with what i have. I play a 4 piece kit and my ride sits tightly between my tom and right crash stand and it covers a 1/3rd of my floor tom and there is a few millimeters between everything to get it as tight as possible.
i have an 8, 10 and 12 rack toms, 14 and 16 floor toms. My dimensions are 8x8 10x9, 12x10, 14x12 and 16x14. My 12 is the only all maple shell as I have a Pearl reference kits. My 12 is so saweeeeeeeeet! My last reference kit had 8x7, 10x8 and 12x9 and it was sweet then too, but adding the inch really gave it additional tone. I find tuning the 12 as effortless as with my 8 and 10. If there was an issue anywhere, it would be my hanging 16, as I sometimes get it a little to low or a little too high with respect to my hanging 14. there was a time, like 45 years ago, I had a 5 piece that I had, 14x5 snare, 14 toms 16 and 18 FT and a 24X14 bass drum. That was not a unique set up back then. We all have that special sound in our head of what drums should sound like. I've found it for me. Preference is the spice of life!
I guess I'm not the only one lol same reasons...I tried tuning my 12x9 (Tama Star Classic Birch kit) for so long I got fed up and sold the tom. I bought another 12x9 same thing I've come to hate that size. However, my 8x7, 10x8, then it jumps to 14x11 sounds perfect to me. Next time I get a kit no 12x9's for me it'll be 8,10,14 maybe a 16 and 20 kick I've been wanting to try one instead of 22.
My first kit was a Genesis Series (Taiwan brand) back in 1993. The rack toms were 12" and 13" plus a 16" floor tom. Big rack toms were a thing during the 80's- 90's.
Ha, for me the problem is always with a 14" floor - never been able to make one sound right! As such I never really use a 10" as it's a 12" or 13" rack with 16" floor.
Agreed! These are all reasons why I don't use mine, currently. I like the way a 10" tom pairs with a 20" BD. My 7x10, 14x14, and 14x20 get the job done!
Adam for years and years, I thought that there was something wrong with me in tuning a 12 inch Rack Tom. Dude for years, like I didn't belong a drummer because I couldn't hear the son-of-a-sea-biscuit. Thank you for that story brother.
Idk how I just saw this video, but I would definitely like to say that I finally got my 12 inch tom to work out. From placement to tuning... it took only 26 yrs to find it comfortable to work with🙄🙄
My kit has not one but two twelve inch rack toms from different manufacturers. One is 12 x 8 and the other 12 x 10 and they are both mounted to my 22 kick drum. I also have a 13 x 12 inch tom I have mounted with leftover parts from broken snare and cymbal stands.
12" toms size is always weird looking too Hahaha! Its funny that actually a lot of us think of that i bought my shell pack just because of the 10" but i guess drum producers love 12" toms for recording, i think it could be because you can change pitch easily if needed, like high or low instead of making the high (10") go mid or low it's easier to reach the tone by a mid point. Great video ! cheers from Mexico!
I bought a 3 piece kit that came with a 20” bass, 14” floor tom and 12” rack tom and for so long I had trouble tuning it, so I just use the bass and floor tom, more of a minimalist setup but I ditched the tom 😂
I have a 10,12,14,16 toms and 22 bass, I switched the 10 and 12 tom around, so it goes 12,10,14,16 and i really like it much better than my 10. I'd love to get a 13,16,18 and 24x14 bass drum one day
12” and 14” pair together well and 13” and 16” pair together well. Those combinations almost always naturally create a nice interval, over a wide range of tensions. 12” and 16” usually wind up being an octave apart, and can sound one dimensional if those are your only two toms. 12” toms are fine with me, but I can’t stand 10” toms. The sympathetic vibration it produces from the kick and other toms creates an annoying high pitched hum that resonates the entire time you’re not hitting it. When other sizes do this, it’s not nearly as noticeable. 10” = 👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻 Also, 6”, 8”, and 10” drums sound better as concert toms for me. Double headed versions of those sizes sound either like tin cans if they’re tensioned medium high to tight, or if they’re tuned a little lower they can sound like cheesy electronic drums. I’m sure many will disagree (and I respect that), but I stand by what I say.
I have found that 8x12 is acceptable if you roll one up and two down and it is on a single ply coated Mowtown type of thing. Other than that I agree, they kinda suck, give me a 10" any day of the week!
It’s true, 12”s are tricky to tune! I’ve spent days of my life trying to dial in these stupid toms. I switched my band to a 10” for a while, but then when recording a rock song and it actually needed a direct mic, it sounded too dorky and fusion-y in context, so after a year with a 10” I switched us back! Hello darkness my old friend
Yes the 12” Tom is the most difficult to tune, and yes it means you have to place both rack toms at a more acute angle. It’s just what your used to really! Thanks for sharing this.
I have a much harder time tining the 14" floor tom since i play with an additional 16". Finding that sweet spot between the 12" and 16" is usually a pain.
I've never had a problem tuning a 12" tom nor placing it above a 22" bass drum. But I play a different setup than he does: a 5, 6, or 7 piece kit with a 10 & 12 mounted on or above the bass drum.
Do love my 12" tom, but it's set up after the 13" on my set so that gets more action. Sonically they're not that far apart but won't change anything about the setup.
So this is my experience. Forever I played a 12" tom and a 16" floor and I would tune them to "george of the jungle" One time I played a kit with 13" rack tom and noticed that it had the same attack and resonace as the floor tom where the 12" would choke and be all attack. So I started using a 13" rack tom and tuning it like a 12" ala "george of the jungle" problem solved.
Pretty sure my kit is like, 14” Snare, 10” & 12” Rack toms, 16” floor tom, 22” Kick drum, im eventually going to transform it into a pancake kit, (cutting the shells to be WAY more shallow, to take less space) and eventually I’ll put up in storage a good quality stage set
I agree with him on shallower 12” rack toms...I play an Ayotte kit with a 7X12 and it’s the best 12” I have heard. I also worked at Sam Ash and Resurrection Drums in south Florida and so I have tuned hundreds of drums...12” toms are indeed funny drums, sonically. I don’t hate them though! I don’t hate any drum, but yeah, if I had my choice, I wouldn’t play anything deeper than an 8” deep rack tom, and that goes for 8” toms through 13” toms.
Honnesty I never liked my 10 in rack tom. It's a bit too high pitched for me and I always miss it because it's so small. I'm gonna switch to a 12 in and 13 in rack tom because I've played some setups like that, and the ride cymbal is never an issue cause it's dirrectly above and to the right of my floor tom.
I actually tuck my 12x8 under my aux hat with maybe 2 inches of overlap (2 hi hat pedal setup). It's a bit further away but it works since I have an offset pedal :) Also a lot of the 12" dead tom issues have been resolved due to this position.
New drummer here, still getting this tuning thing down. I love this video. I can get everything dialed in easily except the 12er, which I'm constantly effing with it.😊
I've had 12" toms that were difficult to tune, and ones that were easy to tune. It makes no sense that a specific size is difficult to tune. The only thing I can think of is if you're trying to pitch it more-or-less exactly in between a 10" and a 14", but the internal volume of the 12" makes it want to be pitched closer to the 10", so you end up with a tone from the 12" that doesn't quite match the other toms. 12x9 is the FAST size (as invented by DW) BTW. 12x8 is traditional, 12x10 (or 12x11 in Tama's case) is power. Positioning when everything sits so high means angling the tom more, and/or moving it sideways so it isn't over the highest part of the bass drum. Sitting higher helps of course, but most drummers subscribe to the 90˚ rule. A lot of drummers seem to be okay with the top of the snare being only slightly above the bottom of the tom. If you like your toms low and flat, with minimal height difference between the toms and snare, yeah it's difficult.
Even though I've been playing for many years I still have to play on my first drumset, a very old and cheap one. And guess what? For many years I thought it is normal to have a 12x11 and a 13x12 rack toms MOUNTED ON a 22" bassdrum. I'm now fully realizing I'm living a nightmare and I HAVE TO change my drumset as soon as possibile 😂 at least I learned to move around on a very uncomfortable drumset, every next will feel smooth and easy Thank you Adam, I laughed so hard 😂 and I learned a lot!
Well, this definitely makes me feel better about the battle I’ve fought over the past couple months with my 12x8. I’m certain my wife thinks I’m obsessive after listening to me try to tune this thing over and over again. I even bought another 12x8 of the same model because I was convinced the resonant bearing edge was imperfect and that was the cause of my issues. Haha! Well, once my wife and dog are awake (it’s 3:00 AM), the 10x7 is going back on the kit and the 12x8s are going up in the attic. I’m hoping the 10 will be a better friend to my 14” floor tom. The 12 was a real jerk!
You described my tuning experience very accurately lol, i have an sp 12x8, and a pearl decade maple 12x9. i have a lot more trouble with the pearl tom then the sp tom. it sounds boxy and is hard to dial in the tone so that both heads can vibrate together. It sounded a lot better after i rounded over the bearing edges to a bigger ratio similar to the floor toms' bearing edge. I appreciate this video a lot.
Its always 13s for me. I think 12s are already pre-disposed to upper mid tuning that I already like instead of low rock tuning. 12s are my go to, as I don't like 8" and 10" rack toms or 13" rack toms as those never like to go in tune for me. I also like relatively even spacing between my toms. Right now I use a 12" rack, 14" floor and 18" floor. I used to have a 13" floor and always had trouble tuning them apart, they were too close in pitch. I think 12 and 13 are too close together even for rack time set ups.
If you or someone you know is playing a 12” rack tom and you’d like to help them discover a better way to live, please have them visit OrlandoDrummer.com for help and other resources to assist them through this difficult time.
LoL
Brother I have a few 12" toms I love. My favorite is on my Maple / Mahogany kit. The kit is 22", 8",10",12",14". So it's one of the lower " floor " toms. Everyone laughs until they hear the kit. These drums are small but they punch. I think a lot of it has to do with the materials, and the heads. In the end it's preference and what sounds right for the song.
Brilliant comment hahaha
I had a 12" birch PDP tom. Never could make it sound good. I could actually tune the matching 10" tom lower. Maybe I'm not crazy.
Lmfao I love my 12” Tom, there IS A MIDDLE AREA when tuning it for sure, I usually keep the head loose-semi tight and it provides the best tone but that’s on preference cause if it’s not within range the overtone makes me want to cry.
I always liked my 12 inch tom, it was the most easy for me to tune
so this came as a surprise to me
Dang! I thought I was the only one thinking 12" toms sound so weird :D I had the exact issue with tuning with my 12" toms. Thats actually the reason why I switched to a 1 up 1 down set up with a 10 and 14". Also ride positioning is WAY better without that second rack tom
SAME. we are so on the same page lol. Plus 2 up 1 down looks weird and 1 up 1 down looks much better.
Yeah, I’m glad I’m not alone. My Black Panther kit came with a 12..... never on the kit. 10, 14, 16 for life.
Get better at tuning lol
i play 7 up 1 down, 6 & 8 roto toms above hi hat, 2 octobans behind the left most rack tom, 8, 12, 13 rack toms & then 16 floor tom. it would be nice to have my ride closer, especially for blast beats, i like the way my 13 sounds, but its too deep, so i got a 10" to have 8, 10, 12, making them lower, and giving me 3 inches to move my ride left.
But my 10 sounds totally wrong compared to my other toms.and i never particularly liked the way my 12 sounds
I used to have a 1 up 1 down, but when I get a second floor Tom, it felt so much nicer.
Damn thats a surprise to me, I couldnt live without my 10 and 12 toms in front of me. I have a harder time tuning 16 usually
Simple trick for a 16". Take your resonant off and tune the batter up until you hear a proper tone,put the resonant back on and tune it up (in small steps) to a preferred pitch or acceptable resonance. From there, you can do to your batter head whatever you want. Go lower or higher depending on preference or genre.
I on the other end love 8, 10, 12 and 16 in front of me!
@@ekumusicYT You got a 16 rack tom?!!! Holy hell...
@@XiyuYang Ik you’re probably joking but Neil Peart had a 15in rack for a long time
I used to have my 10, 12, and 14 in front of me with 16 and 18 to the side. loved it, but I didn't like all the space it took up. ended up moving them around and leaving just the 10 and 12 in front with the 14 on the floor
Yes to all. 20,10, 14 all day. 10” rack toms are my fav. I would like to be in 16” floor tom club someday. If I rocked two racks I would do 8x7 with a 10x8
thats what i play
Wonder what Art Blakey, Elvin Jones, Tony Williams, and so many other groundbreaking jazz drummers would think of this? They all used 12X8 racks, or 12X8 and 13X9 if they played with two racks. Toms weren't made in all different sizes so they had no other choices. But somehow, tuning didn't seem to be a problem for them, they made beautiful music with what they had.
Because they were in Jazz tuning up high and a 12" is great for that.
@@chardrum No, your response is far too simplistic, many ways to properly tune drums regardless of size, 12 inch can sound great in any setting (rock, metal, etc) with proper tuning. Try a kit with 18" kick, 14" floor, 13" and 12" racks, tune them properly (and not necessarily high-pitched) and they will sing. It's not until you get into the mini-me sizes (10" etc) that the sound goes south (can't comment on how easy/hard those sizes are to tune because I've never, and will never, play a mini-me drum, they sound like codswallop).
@@chardrumBut he was then talking more about THE TERRIBLE LIFE THREATENING HORROR... of... placing the drum..
The 13" toms are even more hatefull to tune and the hardest to place.
I always have had more problems with the 13" myself.
I've found a 13" as a rack tom is a little harder to tune then a 13" floor. I played a sonor martini kit with a 13" floor and it was a breeze to tune and sounded amazing.
@@PerkChoppzDrums yeah well its a Sonor lol. Even the Chinese ones sound great.
Idk I love larger toms. Idc how hard they are to tune or how weird they look I love large 13x13 or 14x15 power racks on a 4 or 5 piece kit. A lot harder to come by these days
Agree 😢
I had this exact issue with my Starclassic Walnut/Birch kit. 22” kick and 10x8 and 12x9 rack....I tried for two hours and couldn’t get the toms where I wanted them. I read all about how amazing the mounting hardware with this kit was and how flexible it was from a setup standpoint....and I couldn’t make it work to the point that I almost sent the kit back. I ended up mounting it to my ride cymbal stand in the floor tom position and tuning it down...and I love it! Basically I have a one up/two down setup now but it was the only way I could make it work. My SJC Custom kit is a 12x8 over a 20” kick and I have had no issues with it but I just scrapped the second rack tom altogether on that kit and went 12-14-16.
I play a 12x9 (wasn’t really a choice i could make) and i enjoyed this episode so much😂
i got a snare stand and is able to use a 12in tom as a small but great sounding fl. tom.
I've always heard the more square the drum, the more difficult to tune. My main kit has 8x6, 10x7, 12x8, rack toms & 16x14FT, 20x20 kick. They usually play nice with each other.
Im glad im not the only one that feels this way. When I got my custom kit I ordered 10x7” 13x8” 16x16” toms with a 20x14” kick.
It made tuning SOOOOO MUCH EASIER.
Wow, great sizes!! What did you get?
@@EduanSnarfHendrix Drums Perfect Ply Walnut kit.
That's funny, because my 12x12 tom is the easiest to tune in my set up - the 14x13 is the most finicky/hardest to get to sing with the rest.
My 12 inch tom is my most easily tuned tom too! Its a Sonor Force 3007 kit.
@@jonnylikertrommer I used to have that kit! Yeah, I found the same thing. I play a Saturn V exotic now, and my 12 on that is easy to tune as well. It all depends where your starting point is, I guess. I wonder how Adam would feel if he just started with a 12 instead of the 10; because his biggest complaints were it was "hard to find the middle note when starting with a 10, and it takes up the space where he likes his ride". Start with the 12 (have 1 up and 2 down like he already does, but with a 12 as the top), still leave space for his ride, and not have to deal with finding a middle note if that's the first fundamental and no 10". Personally, I like all sorts of configs depending on the context. If just left setup in the studio, I usually leave all the toms up, and I find my 12×8" on the Saturn one of the easiest to tune. It's usually getting that 14×12 right where I want it that's a little tricky, so it matches well with the last fundamental of the 16×14 and the previous 12, but still sings well without being left so low it detunes frequently. I also have a Gretsch Catalina with deeper toms in the same dimensions, and the 12 is what I usually leave as the top if I'm doing 1 up (granted, it's usually what my students play on as the second kit). Lastly, I use a left and a right ride (20 and 22) and the Saturn has cymbal mounts for the toms, so I run into the same configuration/setup puzzles for finding the right angles and distances for my rides when using 2 up; but still manage to get it all nice and comfortable within about 15 minutes, without anything overlapping or crowding to where I misfire. To each their own, I guess! But, I've honestly never found 12s to be all that difficult to use/tune, and when tuned right or used in the right context, adds a great sound to the setup. Happy drumming!
I dont know how deep my 14” mounted tom is on my mapex, but is shorter, and is hell to tune”
@@Wut88 Mapex is usually a 14×12. But, I'm not sure what series you have. Yeah, it's usually one of the trickier ones to get "just" right; but once it's there, sounds great! At least, on my Saturn. Mine aren't mounted though, they're on the floor. Mapex usually makes more box drums. My Gretsch Catalina shells in the same dimensions are like 2-4" deeper per tom; but solely maple. The Saturn with that walnut/hybrid shell just hits me the right way. Kinda like a birch, but more warmth. Happy drumming, my dude!
@@blakenunndrums yeah Ive had my mapex pro m for like 18 years, at first I used the whole set.. 10 12 14 16 , then just the 12 14 16 , cause I started experimenting with one tom (and I love 12s), and eventually I just went with 12" and 16".. thats when I realized I hated the 14" , lol but now I got a smaller kit (gretsch catalina with 18" bass drum) and the 14" is now my favorite part of the kit... now the 12" is kind of "meh" , and also the hardest to tune
Personally, I love a 12. They sound good low and beefy, or high and poppy. 14's are what I can't work with. Not low enough to be a floor tom IMO, not high enough to be a rack. I bought a lot of sizes for my 3007 so I can swap them out for different reasons. I went with 10, 12, 13, 16, 18. No matter which configuration, I can get a good tonal spread and find good tuning intervals.
I agree with this. love my 12 inch tom. my 14 sounds good but the lugs are so loose, they easily unwind and fall out at the bottom. I will try bigger floor tom(s) soon.
I have never had any such issues. In fact, I have two 12" rack toms with only 1" difference in depth, and I never have issues. I tune one up a bit and one down a bit, and there's plenty of separation to play both, or pick and choose which one to use for specific songs. They fit quite nicely in the line around the kit.
Not gonna lie I’m proud of the sound I got out of my 12” Tom. Still use it today lol
Can always tell when Adam's gears are really turning...he starts fiddling with that one dread 😁
I've always found easy to tune my 12" tom, and liked the sound 🤷♂️
Same, It's pretty easy for me,however, 13 inch toms and 18 inch Floor toms can be tricky!
I felt the same way with the 10 inch tom until I figured out the mounting hardware and room was chocking it.
Got 8, 10, 12, 14 and 16 inch toms everything blends together except that damn 12. Dont know where it fits in the sound but it feels awesome
I have this problem too. Just can't get the transition from the 10 to a 14, smooth. I went with a 13 instead of the 14. Much easier transition.
I remember back in 1970s when 8x12 and 9x13 were standard sizes.
They need to bring that back
9x13 is still my go to
I find that very interesting. at first, I also hated my 12 inch tom and never got it to sound right. but I recently came around and now I love it. the reason is that I listen to and play mostly rock and metal music. in that genre I find that the 12 inch tom is irreplacable, because it has a unique transition characteristic. it has become the most meaningful tom to me and the tuning problem went away once I found the purpose (the sound I wanted) for the tom.
I've always had a strange relationship with the 12" toms also. I have a method to tuning my kit, and it works on everything, but the 12" ALWAYS sounds weird compared to the others and needs more tweaking. I use to think it was just one of my old kits, but it's been this way on every kit I've had. I think it just wants to be tuned higher than I want to tune it.
Interesting topic. I find on my kits that a 13" tom is always the most difficult to tune. 12" toms seems to fall in that real mid-range pitch that I find ok to tune and they sound decent. I find a square size (circa 1980s "power tom" sizes) like 12"x12" or 12"x10" sound great. I think that the problem that people have with 12" toms is that they are too shallow. A 10" or 12" depth really helps a 12" tom I find.
Me too. I always have more trouble with my 13". I like the look and sound of my 12x9.
Problem solved with a 12" on a stand, that's what I did with mine and I could put it off the bass drum
I hate racks in general. Rack toms are the worst - stands only.
@@archologyzero yeah it's pretty cool that way you can put the toms anywhere you want. I used to put my small rack tom off to the left and then I would put another tom next to my floor tom back in the 90s.. but yeah you can get pretty creative on stands
I had a 22 12 13 16 rock kit which morphed into a 10 12 14 kit. Never been so glad to retire that 13" tom, it was my NEMESIS
I eliminated all of my 12" tuning problems by eliminating the 13" from every kit I've had. I recently went away from power sizes, great decision
I wasn’t either until I got my 12x6 rack Tom. I was able to adjust it more and I tuned better than a deeper one.
10” toms seem too small for me. Never get the sound i want either. 13 up, 14 and 16 down for me. I’d love to get better at playing smaller sizes. Love the look and sound of an extra 8” next to a 13.
😂😂😂 oh my god this is so true...I have a 10 and a 12 and my god that 12 goes “boIIINggGggg” urghhh
That’s wild to me. 12x8 rack toms have been so much easier to me as far as tom tuning. I love the wide range of sounds I’ve been able get out of it.
I use my 12x9 quite a bit, I think it sounds wonderful and I have no problem tuning it. I have drums in all sizes from 8 to 18 and, as long as you know what you're doing, you can tune any of those sizes easily.
I played a 12x9 gretsch new classic and it sounded amazing with a evans onyx head with a minor third interval between top and bottom head. I believe I did a B on top and a C# on the bottom. Now I’m playing a Ludwig classic maple kit with a 13x9 rack on a snare stand.
Im running 20x16 bass, 10x7 rack tom and 14x14 floor tom. Feels more ergonomic than my old 22" pearl set i had. Also went with a Gretsch kit this time with Meinl cymbals. My old pearl kit had ziligian cymbals, so complete change of pace.
i couldn't agree more. I just can't get down with a second rack tom, i've tried many times. i hate it.
Agreed!! I’ve played for many years and my final and favorite size kit is 20B/10T/ 14F/ 14x5 snare!! Killer sound and all l need for massive sound! 💖💖💖
Quick workarounds I found:
Use a 12x5 Timbale for the 12 rack Tom. You gain 4 inches and it tunes closer to the 10 in tone.
Use a 12x8 or 12x9 or 13x9 as a ‘rack mounted floor Tom’, to the right of the ride. This allows you to still get a higher note than a 14 floor Tom, and also let’s you put your real 14 or 16 floor tom 1 or 2 inches closer to you. If you already have both a 14 and 16, you now can do the cool guy thing and put your 16 to the left of your hi hat;)
Best wishes!
12s are tricky..but I cant go without her..
I have a 13" rack and an 18" floor tom on my personal set. My church has a 12" rack and this explains why I can't seem to get it sounding good!!
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! CAN JUST ONE DRUM COMPANY MAKE AN 11in RACK TOM! i’d buy that shit instantly
Tama did back in the late 80's early 90's I seem to recall.
Craviotto does
good luck getting heads lol
I love playing 12 and 16 tom setup.
The secret is to tune the lowest tom first, tune low. If it sounds like a balloon loosen the bottom head.
Then when you tune the rack tom, make it harmonize with the floor tom when hit together. If they don't harmonize, it will sound like shit when you play them.
Man I have a 12x7 Tom on my Starclassic hyperdrive and it’s SO hard to tune, it’s so annoying 🤦🏾♂️
My 12×8 is my favorite drum on the kit. I can definitely relate to positioning problems, though; I used to gig almost exclusively on a 10, 13, 16" jungle kit, 18" Omni, 13" hats. Everything was small, close, and accessible. Now I've been practicing on double 24" kicks, 12, 13, 14" racks, 18" floor, 22" ride cymbal hard right over the floor tom. It's definitely different from an ergonomics standpoint, but still very fun and stimulating to play. It took some time experimenting with angles, but I can totally play freely and unencumbered. I wanted that sound that only big drums can offer, so mentally I was prepared to make the adjustment. It's like the difference between an ukulele and an 8 string guitar. They're different manifestations of the same fundamental idea.
Idk why but his disdain for 12 toms made laugh so much, I love hearing drummers I admire talk about drums and cymbal preferences, I feel like there aren't enough videos of the kind out there.
I have a 12x7, and personally I’ve never struggled with it
I tune to a fundamental of between an A and up to a C, usually tuning the top heading to an F# and the bottom head to a B above (perfect 4th), which gives about a B/Bb fundamental and it always works out!
I have a 20 year old Tama Starclassic. My 10” tom sounds absolutely beautiful. I have NEVER been able to make my 12” tom sound good, and have always struggled with placement above my kick. Glad I’m not the only one.
Just reset my Slingerlands to 13,14,18,22 yesterday tuned right up.
My 12 made my snare buzz.
I've played 12in toms and 22in kicks since I've played drums, My kit came with a 12x9 but i had to set it too high ao I found a 12x8 and that sits on a cymbal stand in order to get my kit as tight as possible. I've always wanted a small kit with a 20in kick because I'm not very tall and I think a smaller kit would improve my playing but until I can get one I'll work with what i have. I play a 4 piece kit and my ride sits tightly between my tom and right crash stand and it covers a 1/3rd of my floor tom and there is a few millimeters between everything to get it as tight as possible.
i have an 8, 10 and 12 rack toms, 14 and 16 floor toms. My dimensions are 8x8 10x9, 12x10, 14x12 and 16x14. My 12 is the only all maple shell as I have a Pearl reference kits. My 12 is so saweeeeeeeeet! My last reference kit had 8x7, 10x8 and 12x9 and it was sweet then too, but adding the inch really gave it additional tone. I find tuning the 12 as effortless as with my 8 and 10. If there was an issue anywhere, it would be my hanging 16, as I sometimes get it a little to low or a little too high with respect to my hanging 14. there was a time, like 45 years ago, I had a 5 piece that I had, 14x5 snare, 14 toms 16 and 18 FT and a 24X14 bass drum. That was not a unique set up back then. We all have that special sound in our head of what drums should sound like. I've found it for me. Preference is the spice of life!
I have an '05 Superstar Custom kit with 12" & 13" rack toms on a 22" kick drum, no problems tuning, they sound great!!!
I guess I'm not the only one lol same reasons...I tried tuning my 12x9 (Tama Star Classic Birch kit) for so long I got fed up and sold the tom. I bought another 12x9 same thing I've come to hate that size. However, my 8x7, 10x8, then it jumps to 14x11 sounds perfect to me. Next time I get a kit no 12x9's for me it'll be 8,10,14 maybe a 16 and 20 kick I've been wanting to try one instead of 22.
My first kit was a Genesis Series (Taiwan brand) back in 1993. The rack toms were 12" and 13" plus a 16" floor tom. Big rack toms were a thing during the 80's- 90's.
I totally agree with what you said. I'm glad someone else feels the same way 🤗
Ha, for me the problem is always with a 14" floor - never been able to make one sound right! As such I never really use a 10" as it's a 12" or 13" rack with 16" floor.
Agreed! These are all reasons why I don't use mine, currently. I like the way a 10" tom pairs with a 20" BD. My 7x10, 14x14, and 14x20 get the job done!
I feel the same way dude! I’ve got mine packed up.
10/8 Rack and 2 floors. Yeah you crushed this one brother.
Adam for years and years,
I thought that there was something wrong with me in tuning a 12 inch Rack Tom. Dude for years, like I didn't belong a drummer because I couldn't hear the son-of-a-sea-biscuit. Thank you for that story brother.
Idk how I just saw this video, but I would definitely like to say that I finally got my 12 inch tom to work out. From placement to tuning... it took only 26 yrs to find it comfortable to work with🙄🙄
I have a 12 x 8 rack tom, a 14 x 14 floor tom, and a 16 x 16 2nd floor tom
My kit has not one but two twelve inch rack toms from different manufacturers. One is 12 x 8 and the other 12 x 10 and they are both mounted to my 22 kick drum. I also have a 13 x 12 inch tom I have mounted with leftover parts from broken snare and cymbal stands.
12" toms size is always weird looking too Hahaha! Its funny that actually a lot of us think of that i bought my shell pack just because of the 10" but i guess drum producers love 12" toms for recording, i think it could be because you can change pitch easily if needed, like high or low instead of making the high (10") go mid or low it's easier to reach the tone by a mid point. Great video ! cheers from Mexico!
That's how I feel about 14" floor toms. I hate tuning them. I'd much rather do a setup of 16,18 than 14,16.
Start tuning the floors and go up to the smaller toms and embrace the fundamental note of the drum. For me it works to get a good sound each drum
Just got a new starclassic walnut birch with a 12x9 and I have to agree. My 10x8 sounds heavenly but the 12 is still iffy.
Dave Weckl has the ride positioning delima nailed down while also having a super ergonomic set up for his style of playing
I bought a 3 piece kit that came with a 20” bass, 14” floor tom and 12” rack tom and for so long I had trouble tuning it, so I just use the bass and floor tom, more of a minimalist setup but I ditched the tom 😂
I have a 10,12,14,16 toms and 22 bass, I switched the 10 and 12 tom around, so it goes 12,10,14,16 and i really like it much better than my 10. I'd love to get a 13,16,18 and 24x14 bass drum one day
12” and 14” pair together well and 13” and 16” pair together well. Those combinations almost always naturally create a nice interval, over a wide range of tensions. 12” and 16” usually wind up being an octave apart, and can sound one dimensional if those are your only two toms.
12” toms are fine with me, but I can’t stand 10” toms. The sympathetic vibration it produces from the kick and other toms creates an annoying high pitched hum that resonates the entire time you’re not hitting it. When other sizes do this, it’s not nearly as noticeable. 10” = 👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻 Also, 6”, 8”, and 10” drums sound better as concert toms for me. Double headed versions of those sizes sound either like tin cans if they’re tensioned medium high to tight, or if they’re tuned a little lower they can sound like cheesy electronic drums. I’m sure many will disagree (and I respect that), but I stand by what I say.
I have found that 8x12 is acceptable if you roll one up and two down and it is on a single ply coated Mowtown type of thing. Other than that I agree, they kinda suck, give me a 10" any day of the week!
It’s true, 12”s are tricky to tune! I’ve spent days of my life trying to dial in these stupid toms. I switched my band to a 10” for a while, but then when recording a rock song and it actually needed a direct mic, it sounded too dorky and fusion-y in context, so after a year with a 10” I switched us back! Hello darkness my old friend
Yes the 12” Tom is the most difficult to tune, and yes it means you have to place both rack toms at a more acute angle. It’s just what your used to really! Thanks for sharing this.
I have a much harder time tining the 14" floor tom since i play with an additional 16". Finding that sweet spot between the 12" and 16" is usually a pain.
Ive had more trouble with my 10" rack and 18" floor tom,
PREACH!! I get so much crap for playing leaving the 12 out. 👏 Everything 👏 you 👏 just 👏 said is the reason I don’t play one.
For me I dont care what size drums I use, as long as it works it's fine with me.
I've never had a problem tuning a 12" tom nor placing it above a 22" bass drum. But I play a different setup than he does: a 5, 6, or 7 piece kit with a 10 & 12 mounted on or above the bass drum.
I totally get what he’s saying about the tuning and height. I had to get a 12x7 inch floor Tom before I could get really comfortable with it.
Do love my 12" tom, but it's set up after the 13" on my set so that gets more action. Sonically they're not that far apart but won't change anything about the setup.
Try setting up 10,12,13,14,16,18,22 with power toms. Fun!
Lol I play a 12x9 over a 22" kick. And I LOVE it😂
So this is my experience. Forever I played a 12" tom and a 16" floor and I would tune them to "george of the jungle" One time I played a kit with 13" rack tom and noticed that it had the same attack and resonace as the floor tom where the 12" would choke and be all attack. So I started using a 13" rack tom and tuning it like a 12" ala "george of the jungle" problem solved.
Also you could get a 12" power tom with a longer depth but I like the shorter toms. 🤷♂️
Pretty sure my kit is like, 14” Snare, 10” & 12” Rack toms, 16” floor tom, 22” Kick drum, im eventually going to transform it into a pancake kit, (cutting the shells to be WAY more shallow, to take less space) and eventually I’ll put up in storage a good quality stage set
I believe my Tama Neo Mod is 12x7, w 20x10 kick. It works. But so does my Ludwig Breakbeats 10, 13, 16 kick
I agree with him on shallower 12” rack toms...I play an Ayotte kit with a 7X12 and it’s the best 12” I have heard. I also worked at Sam Ash and Resurrection Drums in south Florida and so I have tuned hundreds of drums...12” toms are indeed funny drums, sonically. I don’t hate them though! I don’t hate any drum, but yeah, if I had my choice, I wouldn’t play anything deeper than an 8” deep rack tom, and that goes for 8” toms through 13” toms.
Honnesty I never liked my 10 in rack tom. It's a bit too high pitched for me and I always miss it because it's so small. I'm gonna switch to a 12 in and 13 in rack tom because I've played some setups like that, and the ride cymbal is never an issue cause it's dirrectly above and to the right of my floor tom.
I play …12 rack /14 floor /16 floor /24 kick /14/8 snare, the 12 is hardest to tune I think , but I like when tuned right
I feel the same way about difficult placement. That said, people been using 13" toms over 24" kicks for days.
I actually tuck my 12x8 under my aux hat with maybe 2 inches of overlap (2 hi hat pedal setup). It's a bit further away but it works since I have an offset pedal :) Also a lot of the 12" dead tom issues have been resolved due to this position.
New drummer here, still getting this tuning thing down. I love this video. I can get everything dialed in easily except the 12er, which I'm constantly effing with it.😊
I've had 12" toms that were difficult to tune, and ones that were easy to tune. It makes no sense that a specific size is difficult to tune. The only thing I can think of is if you're trying to pitch it more-or-less exactly in between a 10" and a 14", but the internal volume of the 12" makes it want to be pitched closer to the 10", so you end up with a tone from the 12" that doesn't quite match the other toms.
12x9 is the FAST size (as invented by DW) BTW. 12x8 is traditional, 12x10 (or 12x11 in Tama's case) is power.
Positioning when everything sits so high means angling the tom more, and/or moving it sideways so it isn't over the highest part of the bass drum. Sitting higher helps of course, but most drummers subscribe to the 90˚ rule. A lot of drummers seem to be okay with the top of the snare being only slightly above the bottom of the tom. If you like your toms low and flat, with minimal height difference between the toms and snare, yeah it's difficult.
Even though I've been playing for many years I still have to play on my first drumset, a very old and cheap one.
And guess what? For many years I thought it is normal to have a 12x11 and a 13x12 rack toms MOUNTED ON a 22" bassdrum.
I'm now fully realizing I'm living a nightmare and I HAVE TO change my drumset as soon as possibile 😂 at least I learned to move around on a very uncomfortable drumset, every next will feel smooth and easy
Thank you Adam, I laughed so hard 😂 and I learned a lot!
Well, this definitely makes me feel better about the battle I’ve fought over the past couple months with my 12x8. I’m certain my wife thinks I’m obsessive after listening to me try to tune this thing over and over again. I even bought another 12x8 of the same model because I was convinced the resonant bearing edge was imperfect and that was the cause of my issues. Haha! Well, once my wife and dog are awake (it’s 3:00 AM), the 10x7 is going back on the kit and the 12x8s are going up in the attic. I’m hoping the 10 will be a better friend to my 14” floor tom. The 12 was a real jerk!
I have a Gretsch 5 lug 12" rack tom that tunes as easily as the others. My other toms are 8, 10, 14, and 16.
8x12 is standard
9x12 is the fast size (invented by DW)
10x12 is power sized
11x12 is Ludwig and Tama Xtras sized.
I’d take a 12” tom all day over a 10”. 8” or 7” depth. Easy to tune IMO.
It's all about the tuning brother... OK.. and heads; and design; and ... you get the idea. :-) Peace, C.
You described my tuning experience very accurately lol, i have an sp 12x8, and a pearl decade maple 12x9. i have a lot more trouble with the pearl tom then the sp tom. it sounds boxy and is hard to dial in the tone so that both heads can vibrate together.
It sounded a lot better after i rounded over the bearing edges to a bigger ratio similar to the floor toms' bearing edge. I appreciate this video a lot.
Its always 13s for me. I think 12s are already pre-disposed to upper mid tuning that I already like instead of low rock tuning. 12s are my go to, as I don't like 8" and 10" rack toms or 13" rack toms as those never like to go in tune for me. I also like relatively even spacing between my toms. Right now I use a 12" rack, 14" floor and 18" floor. I used to have a 13" floor and always had trouble tuning them apart, they were too close in pitch. I think 12 and 13 are too close together even for rack time set ups.
This is why the tama hyperdrive is a great kit
weird I HAD to get rid of my factory 13" tom and replace it with a 12" to hit the sound I needed/wanted.
I was born in 1984. Omg your young Adam
I was born in 69 so I'm really old lol
So what size do you use Adam? I have a 13x9 with a 22” kick and yeah it’s big and does get in the way a little