U87 Shootout | Neumann VS Stam Audio VS Serrano Audio VS Warm Audio
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ส.ค. 2021
- I took a hard look at a bunch of clones of the legendary vintage Neumann U87.
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Great comparison. Thanks so much, lovin the content.
My feel was that the Warm was closest, but I dont know if I like it more or less than the Stam audio one. The Serrano was clearly the worst of the bunch and to me it had an almost a radio like high mid to it.
Nice video and thanks for making it. I thought the Stam Audio had amazing clarity and presence, while still having the warmth of the vintage U87.
I agree with your hierarchy actually!
Great video. I have had the original Neumann and Serrano side by side and I honestly couldn't tell the difference other than price.
I do know Serrano answers questions fast.
I have not had the opportunity for Stam or Warm yet.
All the "clones" seemed to be more sibilant than the vintage model. The Stam Audio was definitely the closest. I wonder if the Neumann actually just sounds a bit more rounded off in the high end because it's so old. In that case the Stam Audio was pretty much spot on, hahaha!
The Serrano Audio had some weird spikes in the higher midrange that I didn't like. The lack of low-end response didn't help either.
The Warm Audio mic sounded decent, but the noise level was awful.
Out of these four, the Stam Audio would probably be my pick. The Neumann was my favorite, but I can't justify spending that kind of money on a single mic right now. The Stam Audio would be the closest thing that would be much more affordable.
Very good video ----- well done
Lol @ the buzzing/hum on the warm audio.
I love her!
Nice video. I don't own a U87 I really love the sound of it, but call me crazy I'm in love with how the young lady voice sounded on the Serrano.. I'm looking for something new and different while others are chasing the same old sound, Plus there's never going to be a company that can fully clone any hardware the same way. I hope this doesn't offend anyone it's just my thoughts.
i actually liked them all, even though they all were different to the neumann. But the noise floor example would make me gravitate towards a stam (if i didnt already have one :D)
Neumann so smooth on the top end and fuller in the Hi Mids without the harshness!...reality is by a 102-103 and save up for an 87! lol the clones I can't justify buying knowing ill have to sell it for half just to get rid of it
Would be curious where 3U audio fits in with these
Those vintage mics are hard to beat. The Neumann mics have a natural compression thing that many microphones do not.
Agreed, Vincent!
Exactly this!
The level of second order harmonics within the vowels is where I feel the biggest differences lie, This is where all clones struggle to keep up with the Neumann87. Sustainfull second order harmonics will facilitate pitch information, Some sound harsh due to the lack of a gently sloping topend. Some sound even tinny. The clones should all fare better when combined with preamps that emphasize warm harmonics. Has the Stam Audio 87 in this video been equipped with a Lundahl output transformer? Thanks for the great comparison!
Stam, sounds great!
I like the WA best for the overall mix
I like the warm the most.
The best Stam end Neumann microphone
Hobo, thanks! But i want to know. this has the Pizolante labs capsules. compared to the older one which had the Heiserman capsule and sowter transformer which sounds better? I think the older one sounded better from your old shootout. what do you think.
I recently purchased a Stam based on a few shootouts (like this one), and I'm a very happy camper. No, it doesn't sound exactly like a U-87, but then I wouldn't say that a U-87 sounds $2.5k better (the approximate price difference) than the Stam. For a project studio with a modest budget and other equipment needs, you really can't go wrong. Honestly, I'd probably have been just as happy with the Warm, but I'd pass on the Serrano.
I've been on a binge listening to U87 clones, and I too already preferred the Stam before I got to the part where you said it. The others aren't as bright; and there are a lot that are off by being too dark, and a few that are a bit brash on the highs; but I thought the Stam was excellent. Of course, for that price, the TLM 103 sounds a whole lot like a U87 in cartoid, too. Perhaps not as vintage, tho. I rather prefer the U87ai to the U87. It biases the capsule at the voltage it was designed for, unlike the vintage ones. It's a little cleaner, but still distorts nicely when hit a bit hard. Too bad nobody's cloning that one. I like NOS tubes, and ordered a control surface that was pretty old, but prefer the newer U87. Go figure.
@HoboRec Recording Studios the United UT Twin in vintage mode needs to be part fo this comparison is i good enough to take the place of at least the stam try & get ahold of it from the manufacture for a shoot out against you u87 & any of the others you still have for the price point I really want to here if it stands up to the stam or the original to your ears!
Hey, thanks for the great vid! Just wondering if you had any thoughts on the new U87s that are being manufactured today?
Thank you! To be honest I’m not sure I ever used the U87ai. In my old studio I had diy clones of the vintage 87 and in three studios I worked at after that I only used the vintage Neumann U87. Should probably make a shoot out between the old and new from Neumann 😁
It changed your life... and beard!
I agree !! The STAM U87 is the closest to the original Neumann U87 out of this group, based on my ears. You must get your ears on the BEEZNEEZ U87 as well !! It's also a strong contender to the original U87 sound.
Whats closer to you the stam or beesneez?
@@omohellabandz7569 the Stam U87 and the Beezneez U87 have both captured the natural compression of the original U87. The Stam has a better noise floor but the Beezneez 87 has the smoother top end to my ears. After hearing both before purchase, I purchased the Beezneez U87 due to the cost difference. You can't go wrong with either however.
@@IDeepVOso if cost wasn't an issue which would you buy? Beez or Stam?
@@zeitakulobusta9708 Stam 87 is great but I would still get the Beez U87.
I went with gtz87 version.
Nothing beats the original with its smoothiness and warmth, Warm sounds good, others were too bright and some were even sizzely to my taste.
Warm sounds the closest.
Stam is the only capable to preserve the natural compression that the U87 have. Serrano is way too bright and loud and all tho the Warm 87 keeps the vibe of the texture, when subjected to the mix it loses a lot of presence to the voice.
second that, all processed from the warm 87 i have heard tend to lose character and sound cheap. But raw vocals on them sound so good
I'd rather buy U87Ai than any of these clones if I wanted the U87 sound.
The Warm kinda got the 70ties neumann vibe right to my surprise. It's also a bit stronger than it is with the real deal and a bit different, but I have to say Warm are doing something right in this regard. It could have me fooled in a blind test for sure... and the noise/humm would make me think it's broken. The real neumanns of that time are not super clean noise-wise, but humm? Never.
Serrano - nope, the nasal quality that sounds like some nasty combfilter is just nasty for anything over $100.
Stam - I had hopes on this one, it would be easy to recommend (and I like how their U47 clone sounds), but this is just a generic condenser. Pretty good and it won't stop you from achieving great results, but the raw sound just instantly sounds cheap compared the real U87. Most probably because of the sibilance is more pronounced and all over the place. Again, some EQ, de-ess and compression and I wouldn't be surprised if it counldn't get massaged into the same thing that U87 can be massaged into.
BTW vintage U87 were around 2000 Euro just a few years ago, now mostly 4-5k. At that point it's probably more interesting to buy the U67 reissue IMO.
Hi Ambient. I can assure my 87 sounds identical to a vintage 87. The sibilance is easily adjusted on the circuit! You can check other videos of my other 87's which are a little darker than this one.
@@joshuastam7704 Hey Josh, anonymous critic from the internet here... I really like you stuff and I have recomended many of your products to my friends. And will continue to do so. You're doing a great job no doubt.
I know your pain, hearing the tests you have no control about. With mics that are calibrated in one way or the other. All these tests are flawed no doubt. The Serrano mic could be broken as far as I know. Nailing U87 sound, I never really understood that, in a way it's a very generic sounding mic on many things, except perhaps some "midrange authority" on voice. That's something I like about it (the original). At the same time some more neutral modern LD is probably more useful overall. Who cares if it's exactly the same as the vintage U87. A versatile nothing-special mic.
I'm not sure what the Warm guys are doing thechnically, if it's making things worse, but they seem to go for the vibe. You at Stam seem to be on the more technically correct side of things, which I prefer, but it's hard to ignore what the warm guys are doing.
Anyway, wish you a lot of success.
@@sporadicambientdiaries Hey man, thanks for your comment and positive vibes and thank you for recommending our work!
At the price of a vintage Neumann 87 you could buy 8 UT87s from United Technologies. United Technologies has the best take on the U87 on the planet right now.
I don't know man.....I think if you recorded a bearded vocalist,shaved him and then rerecorded him,if it would make a greater difference than changing mics.
I agree with your order of preference though.
The noise on the WA-87 sounded like a cable problem and not the microphone.
The Neumann had the best noise floor.
The Serrano sounded the least like the Neumann but I thought worked well on her vocals, especially in the mix.
I did the test at two different times with different cables so I don’t think that the cable was the problem. Can’t rule it out 100% though.
I have a WA-87 R2 and I don't have that noise issue.
The gain is really touchy on the WA-87 though. But once it's dialed in I personally think it sounds real good.
1 1:13
2 1:45
3 2:17
4 2:49
Hey buddy! So was that a newer production U87 (U87ai) or was it an older one?
Hey James!! The Neumann U87 is a vintage, not ai.
@@hoborec Oh, Ok awesome, thank you brother! :)
Shit they sound great but oddly enough I found the serrano the more balanced warmth and highs the most for my personal taste. But they're all great found Neumann the brightest 🤘
Stam’s 87 the best for me by a mile
Dry:
1:12 Neumann
1:44 Stam Audio
2:16 Serrano Audio
2:47 Warm Audio
Mix:
3:21 Neumann
3:53 Stam Audio
4:25 Serrano Audio
4:56 Warm Audio
You’re welcome.
Stam
thanks! affiliate link not working tho...
Thank you. Do you mean the Thomann link?
@@hoborec yep!
The Neumann by miles without the backing tracking, with backing the Warm sounded good.
Warm audio comes the closest out of all of these, I have one but honestly the top end is the most annoying! It’s to mushy in the 10k range so the sibilance sounds weird and it’s impossible to remove with a Deesser without making the whole thing muffled. You legit have to boost the 400-800 range to get rid of it, and even then you still need to boost it and it just stays!
United Technologies UT87 kills all other clones!!!!
Didn’t know they had one until you told me know. Would be fun to gather exactly all “clones” on the market for a super shootout 🤩
Nothing close enough and U can guess whos the winner.
I have tried the warm new addition and I had to send it back due to 50hz buzzing even after changing the tube as advised by the outlet where I purchased it, unfortunately. I won't but clones any more they are inferior to the originals if I can’t afford the real deal I just won't have one!! Even the vintage Neumann microphone ie 67=67 47=47 each sound different even though there were made the same time, I think it's hype personally. BTW, the Neumann sounded the best
Are you sure it was a WA-87 R2? Because those aren't tube mics. And if you have a tube mic you have to let the power supply box warm up for at least 30 minutes before you record or it will sound like shit.
STAM'S CLOSEST
Stam, Serrano, Neumann, Warm...my wallet agrees with my choice :)
Tested so many mics Warm Audio sounds nothing like a U87 gritty and harsh. Mojave is the only thing I would spend my money on. Forget voice samples on TH-cam it’s just not going to translate to the real world.
You’re absolutely right! Doing a voice test this way is such a small part of the whole picture. But still fun!
Have to try the Mojave mics!
Warm was the closest.
Would You do shout-out with simply placing each mic in front of speaker separately(one by one).
While playing white noise trough speaker. It should make things as fair as possible and rly show any minute differences.
bro the beard
I regretted it as soon as it came off. It will be back soon 😂
@@hoborec decisions have been taken, btw first 2 are the best, the noise in others crap :s... nice vids, like always!
Okay but lets talk about the elephant in the room....
🐘
My least favorite was the Stam audio one. It has this harshness and brittleness in the high and high mid range. Same as warm audio. My favorite sound was definitely the serrano one. It had clarity while maintaining smoothness at the top end and all the way through the middle end. it was the most balanced sound out of all the mics across the frequency spectrum.
The original U87 sounded the best for, as usual. After hearing it, the Stam seems to have a dip in the mids making it harsher. The Serrano just sound awful and the Warm sound a bit better than the Stam. Still I woould spend the big amount of money in the U87.
Maybe you didn't notice, but there is something hanging out of your nose...
I liked the Neumann the best, the warm sounded closest to it IMO. Serrano sounded harsh to me in the solo, but I didn't hate it in the mix. Stam was good, maybe a bit sibilant? but managable.
Hobo, your Serrano sounding phasey & thin is because of its positioning. It's way too low pointed at her throat, this mic in particular sounds wildly different and much more Neumann like when sung directly on the capsule. I encourage you to reconsider placement next time you evaluate it
I did try it in many different positions and combinations before making this video. It wouldn’t be a job well done if this was the only impression I based my opinion on.
Try singing two inches above the capsule versus dead on and you will see what a wildly different sound you get. If you tried different positions I’m unsure why you landed at the positioning in the video, granted - I know you can’t control a singer and such a shootout for the same take is difficult to set up perfectly. I have the microphone and can attest that the position it was sung in gives a wildly different sound than what’s intended with proper positioning.
@@abbery9202 Ok, let me clarify. What you see in the video is not the actual take. I gave the singer clear instructions how to sing when we did the recordings. All four mics are in a cross pattern and she sings straight in the middle of it. Yes it can be variations between having the mic above the mouth and below the mouth for sure, but this is the closest way I could do it.
I do sometimes put the mic below a singers mouth on purpose to get less sibilance. It never sounded thinner to me in those cases.
There might be something wrong the the Serrano mic though. I've talked to them and they will send a new one for me to make an updated test for them.
The Neuman and Warm were more "flat". The Stam had a lot of high end, which works for her, but the Stam sounded more like a Mxl 990 than a 87.
It’s actually a little darker than the u87, lol.
@@testosterona7143 not to my ears, lol. Why did you laugh out loud? Im not allowed to have an opinion? Headphones and speakers cant be different LOL? F U .
Lol
Lol
I'M SURE MXL WILL GIVE U A PROMOTION FOR THAT COMMENT. WHERE DO I SEND UR HEARING AID NOW THAT U CAN AFFORD ONE?
A white jamaican?
the clones kll my ears, just burn them