Why Did The Assembly Of God And UPCI Split??
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2020
- Pastor Steve Waldron, New Life of Albany - Albany, Ga
In 1916, the nascent American Pentecostal movement split. Why? How? To contribute to New Life, please click the link below and press donate. God bless!
newlifeofalbany.com/
Very good AND interesting! Learned some new stuff here and had some thoughts/beliefs confirmed. Godspeed! -Donnie
Glad it was helpful!
amen brother, what a breath of fresh air .
The fullness of the godhead is in Jesus, the Christ. Foretold, from the very beginning.
The spirit of God overshadowed Mary and God rubbed himself in flesh and walked among us, and came to his own, and his own knew him not .
The ark of the covenant was the dwelling place of God, but when Jesus Christ walked on the earth God, the father, the spirit of God, lived bodily in Christ Jesus. Who died for our sins as a man and was tempted it always.
Jesus is the fulfillment of the Godhead. The perfect sacrifice, the spotless lame.
Hero Israel, the Lord, our God is one god Deuteronomy, 6:4
And they hung these famous words over Christ Jesus when they crucified him.
Jesus of Nazareth king of the Jews .
Luke Simons here from North Dakota. We love you brother.
Love y’all! God bless!
Good information, bro. Waldron.
Appreciated
I have been ordained through the church of God for several years. I am hearing about more and more Pentecostal and charismatic believing in baptism in Jesus name for which I am super glad. I intend to do it as soon as I can. Once you see the light on it in the book of acts you cannot on seeWhat you see. I would not believe it has some apostolic’s would, but I certainly believe the baptism in Jesus name is the New Testament pattern.
Who cares...It is not essential for Eternal Life! Wow, True regenerates doesn't waste time with such trivial minor debates.
You obviously do not care for obedience to the Word of Christ Jesus the Almighty (rf. Matthew 28:18; Revelation 1:8; Isaiah 9:6-7; 1 Timothy 3:16; etc), @@Testifydesignfactory, but Christ Jesus the Almighty & those who truly love Him do (rf. John 14:15; 15:14; etc).
But of course your type are always looking to keep or deceive other people into the same miserable state of unregenerateness that your type is immersed in. That is the only baptism you all ever really experience -- a baptism into disobedience.
So, Ryan Dawson, did you submit as yet to water baptism in the name of Christ Jesus, the One who is the Almighty (rf. Matthew 28:18; Revelation 1:8; Isaiah 9:6-7; etc), even as He commands via, for example, Luke 24:46-47, Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:47-48, 19:5, etc?
Apparently it has been a year since you said you were contemplating going to get it accomplished.
If I were near you, I would myself gladly baptize you in water while invoking the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ over you as I have done in obedience to the Almighty for many others, but you should be able to find some other Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal church or minister where you are to administer water baptism in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ for you.
I do agree with alot of what was said about water Baptism. The book of Acts records "in jesus name" exclusively....but...Matthew 28 is valid.
I think its often missed that "In the name of" is MORE than the sounds we use with our mouth. I was baptized "In Jesus Name".
In the name of also means "by the authority of" and also "by permission/mandate of". The Baptism name debate is largely about the sound waves pronounced over a believer in water which often misses the practicle point of baptism which is a work unto Repentance and putting on Christ thru his death and resurrection. 🙌🏿 Great talk
Amen and Amen
Good info
Glad you think so!
And yet, whenever God wanted to use His elect, He would use a Billy Graham for world evangelization, a Pat Robertson, a Marcus Lamb, the Crouch family for world TV evangelization, a RW Schambach for old fashioned Holy Ghost tent meetings. In these last days, why hasn’t He used any of the brethren who supposedly have the truth for such endeavors?
He has
I have an Assembly of God background that goes back 3 generations. I have a love for United Pentecostals and respect them. I also like to hear their preaching. I consider Unired Pen5ecostal to he my brothers and sisters in Christ. I hope that they feel the sane about me. If they don't , I syill love and respect them .
Same. Oneness churches, trinitarian, i welcome all and love all. The gospel needs to be preached, debating and loosing time about difference in doctrines itself is not worth it.
Pastor, what would be the best book that shows the baptism with the Holy Spirit did not start happening again until 1901, but rather that it continued to be an experience throughout church history
Maybe something by Thomas Weisser, Kal Boora, or Marvin Arnold. Church of God has a couple as well, author’s name escapes me.
Read Jason Weatherly’s book.
Does the word of God clearly states the the first Batism of the Holy Ghost in the 2nd Chapter of Acts? It clearly states it
A predecessor to the UPC came out of the PAW.
A lot of interesting material, and something you hit on has given me much doubt in my life. When you were talking about how the South was during Jim Crow and all of that. I'm from the South and have only lived in the South, I was born in 1975, so I've pretty much grew up without ever knowing what life was like even as late as the 1960s, but I don't understand for the life of me how so many "Holy Ghost" filled folk just turned a blind eye or something. It's hard to understand for us born after the 1960s I guess. Real good information though.
As one that grew up in the South did you see a lot of holiness (AoG, UPCI, etc) people turn a blind eye to people based on skin color? In other words did you see a lot of racism? Can you elaborate more on this? I would be curious to hear about how it was.
The largest Trinitarian Evangelical Church here in Canada (the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada) was originally a Oneness Church . I think they joined forces with the Assemblies of God in the USA and after that they became Trinitarian.
That is right. Bro Small wasn’t it?
New Life Of Albany Ga. I don’t know.
Informative video,though I'm not pentecostal its good to hear about the distinctions between AoG and UPC.I wonder do you know whether UPC and Full Gospel Churches are the same or similar doctrine because here in Philippines there are Full Gospel Churches but I'm hesitant to visit one,thanks for your video.
I’ve done a vid on that and charismatic.
Doctrine is a bit different but not completely . UPCI baptizes in the name of Jesus, AoG and other full gospels baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. AOG and others have a trinity theology, while UPCI is unitarian i think is how you spell it.
Why did UPC and WPF separate? The rock church and Christian life center in California
TV advertising differences
any videos on why UPCI Had WPF emerge from it? That still seems to have tension till today.
I’ve mentioned it in a couple but not specifics.
I grew up UPC in Bulawayo Zimbabwe.
In adult life in South Africa I moved in and ministered in The Full Gospel Church of God, Assemblies of God, AFM, etc.
Both "sides" pentecostal, all same beliefs except for the "trinity" doctrine.
Alot of enmity and bitterness among denominational leadership on this issue, but not so much between among the church members.
I have always felt it is a dispicable shame that they made such a divisive issue of the matter.
Shameful and playing right into the enemies plans.
God = 1 nature, 3 persons?
God = 1 person, 3 revelations?
Yet both views believe fully in Jesus Christ for salvation, and worship Him as God!
So why the massive fight about views and interpretation that does not effect the core beliefs and plan of salvation?
Get over leaders egos!
We should be 1 church.
Forget about the Roman Catholic terminology of "trinity", and worship God the Father, through God the Son Jesus, by the Holy Spirit.
We worship one God.
We know Him as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
Salvation is in Jesus Name, as clearly proclaimed in Scripture.
Did you know Sam Latta?
The real mystery for me is why denominations denounce others as antichrist. Seems all have to discredit other to keep people in their denomination. Tempted to follow the money in this issue the root of all evil.
Luther and Zwingli certainly denounced one another.
@@NewLifeOfAlbanyGa Just take a look at the book "orthodoxy and the religion of the future" treatment of Pentecostalism.
That chapter narrated. th-cam.com/video/I1beIkrwe_0/w-d-xo.html
Church splits should be more accurately called, divorces.
Wasn't it Glenn Cook and Frank Ewart who Baptised in Jesus Name Acts2:38??
Yes, 1913-14
Why did the upci split and form the wpf?
Reverse happened. Tv advertising
At 11:37 you made mention of verses in Isaiah about being hated by the brethren for his name's sake, and "trinitarians" crying holy holy holy... but I can't find it.
(I can only assume your referring to Isa. 66:5, and 6:3)... but the context lends nothing to your claim
Didn’t mean to apply that to Isaiah. It’s a historical reference that was made at the 1916 conference.
"17:12" -- This is where the most important point of the whole topic & presentation is made, for no organization that identifies as Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal ecclesiastical organization is necessarily Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal in all its dogma & practices & throughout its constituents of non-pulpit & pulpit members. Said another way, not everybody in the UPCI, etc, be it in the case of laity or in that of the clergy, are truly of the One Church that genuinely belongs to Christ Jesus the Almighty.
Salvation is an individual matter. "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
Read, study, & obey the Holy Book of the Almighty for yourself, folks! While apostates of the ministry & of the laity can definitely cause another person tremendous difficulties with regard to trying to become & staying saved, one who really wants to live for the Almighty can survive &, when all is said & down, while the apostates shall eventually be thoroughly judged by the Almighty for their apostasy & accursed influence, nobody is going to be able to use that sort as an excuse to say, "Well, because of so & so, Lord, I did not obey You," & then see an acquittal at Judgment Day.
They split because of trinity doctrine. AG doctrine on trinity is the longest doctrine. It was expanded when oneness believers left.
Correct. Did you watch the video? I say that.
I baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
I assume you mean repeating His command rather than obeying it.
@@NewLifeOfAlbanyGa I am obeying His command by baptizing in the the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
No, you are repeating words. No Biblical scholar thinks anyone in Scripture was baptized repeating those words, except a few outliers. There is no Biblical or historical evidence that is the case.@@artemusbowdler7508
@@NewLifeOfAlbanyGa I am part of history, and I use that formula. I have many friends who use this formula. If Christ said it, it must be right. "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:18-20).
You are part of the present, not Biblical history 2,000 years ago.@@artemusbowdler7508
Was there a period of Baptism, Father Son and Holy Ghost, before Peter introducing Jesus' Church in Acts 1,2.
Is there any need for the Baptism of Matthew 28:18,19, after the day of Pentecost?
Two baptisms or one?
One baptism - Eph 4:5
@Araseli Zarate sorry, You are assuming this claim that I believed the apostles were wrong...
I believe they were right, inspired by the Holy Ghost as Holy men of God just like the writers of the OT, or Tanach.
I was asking that, as time went by, did the "formula" change...
1) Obviously, John baptized the baptism of repentance...Whether or not he said anything (ie..."I baptized you the baptism of repentance"), I find no evidence for or against.
2) Later, before His crucifixion, Jesus commanded His disciples:
MATTHEW 28:18-20 (KJV and NRSV) And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you.
3) Even later than that on the timeline...
Jesus told His disciples to wait for the promise of the Father
(This was after His crucifixion and directly before His ascensión, also leading towards Pentecost)
...
In Acts Jesus said to wait for the Promise of the Father, the Holy Ghost.
Peter, the Rock upon which Jesus established/built His (Jesus') Church laid out Repentance, Baptism in Jesus' Name for the remission of sins, and The Gift of the Holy Ghost, that very Promise of the Father, "with Power".
This was the fulfillment of Joel 2:28.
So I'm not saying anything is wrong with the Scriptures nor the authors.
My main questions are
Are there three baptisms over time, as numbered above?
What was said at each Baptism, if Biblically stated?
Personally,
1) I have not been baptized the baptism of repentance by John nor his disciples.
2) No one has: ever baptized me, saying, "In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and in the Name of the Holy Ghost"
Nor any very similar baptism phrase of almost the same wording--that I can recall.
I had some kind of baptism (or sprinkling or head dunking)as a baby in the Catholic Church.
3) In early 2002, I was baptized in Jesus' Name for the remission of sins, and have had most abundant blessings in my walk with Jesus, realizing that before receiving the Holy Ghost, my understanding of God was non-existent.. Purely secular mentality... Not praying, nor seeking God, just worried only about the cares if this world, so to speak...
Since then, the Holy Ghost has led me day by day, self denial by self denial, bearing my cross... The Holy Ghost had been guiding me unto all Truth, and per my delight in The Lord, I've been receiving all of the desires of my heart.
So again, not disputing the Scriptures nor the apostles, but realizing I don't know everything, but am led in Truth daily.
Does anyone understand my questions?
Obviously, These 3 mentions of Baptisms didn't happen at the same exact times.
Did some first century disciples receive all three?
Please elaborate, as I'm trying to better understand the Holy Scriptures, not attack them as you've implied.
As Christians, we should much more often admit our areas of ignorance, and ask questions to receive better understanding.
I'm sure that some have 'no more need that any man should teach them.'
However, we attack what we know as false doctrine all day long, without opening up or heart to discuss that which we don't have full understanding of.
And, of course, we have the Peace of Jesus Christ, which passeth all understanding...
@Araseli Zarate You're misunderstanding me. Did Jesus' audience in Matthew 28, before His crucifixion (also before Peter's audience on the day of Pentecost... Chronologically later), and after Jesus'crucifixion... Did they teach all nations and Baptize?
If so, what was said?
Also, Where does it teach in the Bible that no words were spoken at John's baptism of repentance?
Honestly, I don't know and want to learn.
@Araseli Zarate Of course, to get into Jesus' Church, post-Pentecost, so to speak, I'd say, all one needs is to repent and be baptized in Jesus' Name for the remission of sins.
Only one water baptism, Baptized into Jesus' death, to walk in newness of Life, filled with the Holy Ghost. I understand Ephesians.
However, Ephesians was written after Matthew and the timeline indicates that Jesus commanded people in His presence (Matthew 28) to baptize before Peter did.
I'm trying to better understand the intricacy of the timeline... The chain of events...
In other words did Jesus command his disciples to teach and baptize in Matthew 28:19, and then they had to wait all the way to Pentecost in order to do so?
I hold to the PCI view of Oneness and am ordained with a group called the IMA, which was around way back in that same era and still exists. We're basically PCI Oneness. I preach Acts 2:38 and have many friends in the UPC, but I disagree with the more hardline PAJC style view of Acts 2:38. I think the PCI faction was correct on this, and that the PAJC faction caused a lot of damage in isolating the UPC from other groups because of the stance they took on 3 Step Salvation.
I wonder if you would be believing the same if the trinitarians were persecuting Monarchians today as they once did? We are not part of MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
I've never understood how anyone thinks what Peter started the Church of preaching Christ and Salvation Is not what we are to follow.
We are not denominations we are the church, different organizations doesn't equate to the Denominational idea. We did not come from Catholicism as all the Protestants, some came out and did so because they found out truths. Maybe folks should read Clinton Willis's books Ancient Creeds or The Pagan Trinity or Delroy Gayles's OUR ROOTS: After the Way Called Heresy.
Also along with that Martyrs Mirror or Foxes Book of Martyrs.
Oneness aka Monarchians didn't kill the Trinitarian, but they did us
4:11
New life of Albany, There was no Oneness teachings in the Christian churches until the 13th century when people began to teach it and were kicked out of the Christian churches because of your cultic doctrines. The they formed the upci.
Nowhere does the Biblical Greek say they baptised people in the name of Jesus. Why didn't the original Oneness people see what the Biblical Greek says about water baptism, and why don't Oneness people today see what the Biblical Greek says about water baptism?.
The Biblical Greek says people were baptised by the authority of Jesus, NOT in the name of Jesus. You aren't baptised, and that's a Biblical fact.
Acts 2:38 using baptism in Jesus' name is a way of saying being born again, and not a water baptism formula.
They didn’t split.
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Some say that the above was changed in the Catholic Encyclopedia. Originally, they claim it was something like..., "In the Name of the Lord"
Obviously Jesus was the Son of God, who overcame and sat down in the throne with the Father in Revelation 3:21, and likely others of the Angels of the 7 churches in Asia Minor, likely others since the first century... Other "Sons of man"
Jesus was not the only "Son of man," but also, many of the Prophets were referred to this way, such as Ezekiel.
Jesus was the Firstbegotten of the dead, as performing the law perfectly. Also, He is the second Adam, the Lord from Heaven.
Notably, Jesus' cousin, the Prophet John also had the Holy Ghost in the womb (similar to Jesus)
What I'm trying to posit is, is...
Did the fullness of the God always feel in Jesus bodily?
He was begotten of the Holy Ghost, but why an anointing at his Baptism.
Were Jesus and the Father always One? Was the fullness of the Godhead ever in anyone but Jesus, like where He told His disciples that the Father was in Him, He in the Father and they both were in his disciples in His presence at the moment?
Are there some that are weak in the Holy Ghost, strong in the Holy Ghost and Overflowing with the Holy Ghost?
What did Jesus have to do to overcome, if He was perfected, having the fullness of the Godhead in Him bodily from "conception" or before?
What is there to say about the trinitarian claim in Genesis 1?
In the Beginning, {{{God}}} created...
And the {{{Spirit of God}}} moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, (Let there be {{{Light}}})
There are three Spirits mentioned in the New testament (I say they are One, per Ephesians... One Spirit, one Lord, One Faith, One baptism, etc...).
Theses three Spirits are, the Spirit of breath of Christ
The Spirit of the Invisible (breath) God
The Spirit of the Lord
The Spirit of God
The Holy Spirit/Ghost
I say these are all identical, one Spirit per Ephesians... Possibly in different vessels, following upon certain groups such as on Pentecost and in the early ~1900s, I guess at Azusa Street?
I also believe or Spirit mixes with the Holy Ghost once we receive it, we become new, with God in us, Father Son and Holy Ghost, that one Spirit), this not making us robots with only God's Spirit, but giving us some Providence to serve Him, by the Power of said Holy Ghost, and of course to do so in agreement with his Will and Word (Like you preach, the washing of the Word) preferably better and better as we mature (get perfected) as Christians.
Btw.
Jesus' coming was soon to a First Century audience.
We are not dwelling in Corinth, nor Philippi, not Macedonia.
We cannot, as Jesus commanded to disciples in His presence in Matthew 24, flew Judaea to the mountains when we saw the signs and the armies compassing about Jerusalem.
It's desolation was nigh, fulfilling the Old Covenant.
Replacing the Holy of Holies (a perfect cube) with a city not built with hands, our Heavenly Jerusalem, also measured, metaphorically in Revelation, as a perfect cube, where the Lord God Almighty and the lamb are the temple and there is neither day nor night, but the Righteous dwell within (the Eternal Church) and the adulterers and ~whoremongers
@@shoemak88
Well, I've been looking into the whole Oneness vs Trinity for a while now and for me it's all SEMANTICS. I was raised Oneness Pentecostal, and was told growing up Trinitarians believe in 3 Gods not 1, but thast's not right. I've never heard a Trinitarian say this, they only deny and say no we believe in 1 God. I'm afaird too many Oneness Pentecostals mistook and may still do the words Trinity as Tritheistic, when they're not the same.
I say this kind of tongue and cheek, but I'd love to moderate a debate between Oneness vs Trinity with one caveat. The Oneness must use the word "persons" and the Trinitarian must use the word "manifestations." HA! They'd be talking on top of each other:)
And God in His great wisdom settles arguments by being a physical model of what He desires. He was baptized and He taught His Apostles to baptize. What formula did they use? How many times?
Who in the Bible was ever physically baptized in any other formula than the book of Acts. What is our foundation, the tradition of men or the actions of the Lord via the Holy Apostles? How brilliant is as our Great God and Savior!!
Because you deny the basic Christian faith
I’m sorry. But you do.
Not originally my friend.
New Life Of Albany Ga. I understand but now day
The reason why Christians split from the Oneness people, was because there was no Oneness teachings in the Christian churches until the 13th century when people began to teach the erroneous doctrines and were kicked out of the Christian churches because of your cultic doctrines, so they forced the upci.
Haha! That’s certainly not true. I have a 60 part or so history coming out on the early Church. God bless you friend. Did someone hijack your account? You used to be much better.
@@NewLifeOfAlbanyGa not only is you information on the Bible is wrong, but you information on your church history is wrong.
When Walter Martin told Nathaniel Urshan and Robert Sagam about the Oneness upci cult being formed in the 13th century, none of them denied it.
Because you cannot deny facts.
wow, what a silly problem. I smell the jesuits involved with such a thing. When we don’t cry out about sin and repentance we will cry all the time. Maybe they should baptize in the name of “Yehoshua”. Strange, all those people saying baptize in Jesus name except Jesus. (Matt 28)
I guess Peter and the 11 apostles (including Matthew himself) ignored what Jesus said in Matt 28:19 two weeks later in Acts 2. What think ye?
@@juliandoyley2103 that was John's Baptism. But once Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice on the cross. He was then buried then rose. Then in Acts the 2nd chapter of Acts it clearly states the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Finally in Acts 2:38 Peter steps up and states "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins and yes shall be filled with the Holy Ghost."
It is so clear. And no I am not upci or any other Oneness or Trinitarian I am simply a sinner saved by his grace baptized in his name.
What is wrong with the Church World today is people mistake religion with having a true relationship with God. That is the difference.
@@darwinapala960 - I don't think I understand your comment
@@juliandoyley2103 Before Jesus went to the cross people were baptized Father Son and Holy Ghost. After he became the sacrifice he Jesus told his deciples that I would not leave you comfortless. That's when the Holy Ghost or some people prefer to call it Spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost. And it was in the book of Acts when people began baptism in the name of Jesus.
And... in chapter 4:12 & of course 2:38.
I hope this make sense.
@@darwinapala960 - Matt 28:19 happens after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and 10 days before Acts 2:38. How does that reconcile with your comment?
My original comment was in response to the comment before and was a genuine question for the commenter