Assemblies of God vs UPCI (Oneness Pentecostal) +BONUS Lutherans!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2021
- Three for the price of two! We're covering the differences between Assemblies of God churches and United Pentecostal (Apostolic, Jesus Name Pentecostals) and also throwing in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod to spice it up.
I was an LCMS pastor for years and married an ex UPC. Good accuracy on both accounts. They are both socially conservative. But I see LCMS as theologically conservative and UPCI as almost complete novel, thus theologically liberal.
Interesting take! May I ask in what way you see the UPCI as theologically liberal?
*I am in the UPCI now
@@philos_theos In this usage, one may define "conservative" as reflecting the historic faith and creeds of the church and "liberal" as coming up with completely new things. It's not unlike modern political "progressives" who reject anything by "dead white guys", but adore the latest TikTok rant.
That being said, I am biased, because my wife left the UPCI five years ago and hasn't been able to talk to her family since.
@@jasonharris2291 UPCI people who do that are sinning IMO (as someone who attends a UPCI church). That type of behavior is deplorable.
@@jasonharris2291, most of the adaptations that UPCI churches make tend to be imports from the AOG or Charismatic churches. This is not to say that some do not get a little...odd on their own, but in the main they are consistent in that unlike Bethel and IHOP, they rarely pursue novelties. Those that do embrace such things do not long remain. I know of churches that "went Charismatic" and others that became emergent in theology. Some preachers attempted to tie the UPCI to the broader "evangelical" world and are no longer members as they became nondenominational, Methodists, Episcopalian, or Presbyterian. Still others forsook anything calling itself Chtistian and engaged in depraved licentious lifestyles. The greatest alterations that UPCI churches make tend to be in the issues of modesty and Christian conduct. I believe that if things continue as they were when I was coming up, there are major changes in the next twenty years in the appearance and conduct of the UPCI in the main.
UPCI is theologically leberal? In want way? I thought they held strong to their traditions.
You are killing these videos keep them up
Love this channel. Thank you! I was raised Wels, I'm currently working for an LCMS, and I am trying to understand the differences of what's going on in the church... The body of Christ. So far all I have been able to see is that there are bits and pieces of almost every denomination that I agree with, and bits and pieces of almost every denomination that I disagree with. This is really helping me figure it out. Thank you!
Thank you very much for recognizing the UPCI. I have been a minister in this church for over 50 years.
Awesome video, Joshua!
Just wanted to make a very small correction on our (the LCMS) view on the Sacraments. In the case of Confession, if a certain church were to teach that it is not a separate Sacrament, it's not necessarily because they do not practice it, but rather just that it is viewed as an extension of the Sacrament of Baptism, rather than being its own Sacramental entity.
I just came across this 2 years later. This is interesting information. I appreciate it.. I did grow up in the upci.
Thanx, Joshua. Super interesting. 🌹🌲🌹
Thanks Joshua, I've attended both of these Denominations. AoG & UPCI. You are spot on! God Bless Your Ministry Brother. I now attend a Calvary Chapel Church in California. Merry Christmas Josh!🙏❄
Similar journey to mine. Went from UPCI to Calvary Chapel to Eastern Orthodoxy. Finally home ☦️
I'm still Oneness Apostolic I do have friends who our assembly of God an Calvary chapel
Excellent video!
Very helpful video but I would make a few notes. (I am licensed with the UPCI.)
1. The use of grape juice vs wine in communion varies by congregation.
2. The reading of the Apocrypha is encouraged in some churches as "useful" but not canonical.
3. There are no longer blanket guidelines against attending theaters, dancing, mixed-gender swimming, makeup, jewelry, television, or competitive sports. Instead, the official stance is to be careful what you watch, be careful how you dance and the context (not sexualized or with someone other than your spouse), swimming is sometimes mixed but only when people are fully covered (most commonly not mixed), the use of makeup and jewelry is often taught as "unnecessary adornment" but not banned (rings are most common, light use of makeup is common in some churches), and many churches have competitive sport leagues or Christian schools with competitive teams.
A lot has changed over the past 30 years and it varies a lot between districts, sections, or individual churches.
Small point to add: in the UPCI you don’t have to be baptized to speak in tongues and have it recognized as Holy Spirit infilling. Such as Cornelius and his household in Acts 10, who were then baptized after receiving the Spirit.
I was just getting ready to say this. I’m former oneness
@@theunknownone2189 good for you. I'm former UPC myself
I am 5th generation UPCI. My uncle is the late C.M Becton. My Grandfather whom just past is Rev. Mervyn D. Miller. And we believe Jesus is God in the Flesh.
@@douglastriplett1083 UPC pastor here, we don’t in fact believe in eternal Sonship. The incarnation had a beginning. The Spirit that was manifested, is eternal.
@andysmith6346 Why does God refer to Himself as "We" in the Old Testament?
A little bit of correction, even tho im not UPC in First Church we have the same Holy Ghost baptism belief, but the baptism in the Holy Ghost speaking in tongue can happen before or after water baptism in the Name of the Lord Jesus. But All 3 are essential
It would be interesting to explore the differences between Pentecostal denominations in other countries, for example Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada vs Assemblies of God in the States. PAOC originally started as non-trinitarian but later adopted it.
When it comes to things taught vs obeyed, it would be interesting to see where UPCI members ultimately stand on "No television in the home". Particularly in regards to computers, tablets, and smartphones having replaced the television as the standard for consuming secular media and being nearly essential to function in modern society.
I used to work with a UPC guy who was a (really good) computer programmer.
I don’t even know if this is still in the manual because it isn’t preached anymore. Same with other things like sports and theaters and concerts.
@@creekochee3592 they're going soft!!!
@@RonJohn63 No, I think a lot of that was being counter to the cultural Revolution of the 60s. For example, beards were a big symbol of rebellion against society and for that and its association with the hippie movement the UPCI taught to be clean shaven. Now, that’s no longer in the manual.
@@creekochee3592 I'm not very familiar with the UPC aside from their modalism, but it sounds like the oft abused "legalist" accusation may apply here. I know we are not to love the world (1 John 2:15), and I think I would come to similar conclusions to them, but I use 1 Cor 10:31 "*whatever* you do, do all to the glory of God" which has whittled away a lot of the entertainment that I used to consoom. But I know because of Romans 14 not to judge the stronger bretheren, so I do not seek to bind the conscience of others. Rather I look to see if they may be abusing their freedom in Christ. But saying "No TV, No Sports, No X" reminds me of Colossians 2:20-23 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle."
Wasn't gonna watch this but then I saw bonus Lutherans!
another interesting comparison
They all read the same Bible yet have so many differences…
I had posted last time about the good history of the UPCI. I thought maybe that post was deleted. The UPCI was formed as a merger of two groups. The Pentecostal Church incorporated (PCI) and the Pentecostal Assemblies of Jesus Christ (PAJC). The PCI did not teach the 3 step salvational experience popular today in the UPCI. They taught that salvation is at the moment of faith just like the Assemblies of God. The first General Overseer of the UPCI was from PCI. At that time there was some significant fellowship between PCI people and Trinitarians. The UPCI only became truly 3 steppers when former PAJC people took the lead and marginalized the PCI. It is sad what has happened. The Assemblies of God has very great respect for the UPCI at least that is their official position. At local levels members can fight one another because of doctrinal differences. I am Oneness on the Godhead but do not insist on tongues as evidence of salvation or Holy Spirit Baptism.
Then how are you UPC if you don’t believe that? I grew up UPC and you wouldn’t dare say that out loud because that’s what they believe
I have the same belief as well-I agree with the Godhead and the formula in the baptism, but not totally agreeing with tongues as a part salvation. I will fight to death about the Godhead but not the "speaking in tongues". Oftentimes, I would see others "faking" it so they can say that they "received" the Spirit.
Overall, I would give the UPCI as an organization and all its teaching a 3.5. 😂
You’ve said in many videos that confirmation is practiced only because the Churches perform infant baptisms, however, in the largest churches (Orthodox and Catholic) that’s not why confirmation is practiced. The confirmation happening in the sacrament of confirmation is not the baptized person confirming the vows made on their behalf when the person was an infant, but it is the Holy Spirit providing a confirmatory power and strengthening of the person baptized. In both traditions, adult converts are baptized and receive the sacrament of confirmation. This usually happens the same day they are baptized.
In Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Rites, infants also receive baptism and confirmation on the same day, meaning that they’re teenagers do not have the experience of baptism.
I just wanted to clear that up as most Protestants’ use of confirmation (it might be different among Anglicans) is theologically quite different than Catholic and Orthodox uses of confirmation.
As a UPC Christian, quick correction for the whole “Modesty, Entertainment, Sports” thing. No UPCI church enforces these strict guidelines for members. These guidelines are for ministers and those who represent the church such as church staff. Many churches may preach that these things are simply good practices to follow in order to remain holy, but many churches don’t actually care if you go to movie theaters or play on sports teams unless you are in a leadership position.
As a UPC christian, born in a family of pastors, this strict guideline is something I have never heard until now. Though we were abstained from going to theatres and movies, and as you said, it is not strictly enforced. But I've still grown to hate movie theatres anyways lol.
True but back in the day or at least when I grew up in it and I’m 37 those things were all part of our standards seems like the upc got soft 😂😂
You are lying. I was part of UPC for years. These "holiness standards" are enforced. You can hold no office in the church without the pastor's consent and following those guidelines. I don't know where you go to church, but quit lying.
Bonjour quelqu'un pourrait me dire combien d'assemblée upci y à t'il dans le monde ?, Merci.
I go to a UPC church and I have never been to someone’s house that didn’t have a TV. Even the Pastor has a TV in his home.
And I don't know what I am right now even though I was raised Wels Lutheran, attended Assemblies of God for 10 years, and now I'm a Church secretary for lcms but not officially attached to any denomination. That's why I'm here!
By the way I gave up my TV two years ago. I'm just trying to listen to the Holy Ghost!
In my experience, the actual carrying out of various UPCI prohibitions, such as avoidance of television, is regionally-based. In certain areas its quite lax, and in other localities this prohibition is strictly enforced. I'm reminded of one man who, only wanting to follow the LETTER of the law, but not its SPIRIT, built a wooden box on the OUTside of his house, similar to what air conditioners are placed in. Why? In this way, he could watch television while still claiming that he didn't have a television IN his home. Whether it be television, or how one dresses, etc, this is the sort of unhealthy, rigid mentality that legalism causes.
@@lauralynne1483 I gave up TV because I realized that it is mindless garbage and had nothing to do with the church influencing my thoughts or decisions regarding that. I don't personally know another person who has given up TV. I just realized I was wasting a lot of time with this propaganda device in my house. Also trying to eliminate some electronics in general for health purposes. I've studied the word a lot more, and I carefully choose informational videos.
I’m in Southern California and I think it is pretty lax compared to other places
I respect that the UPC sets a high goal, even if they don't live up to it.
3:48 TR as in "Textus Receptus"?
That is correct
@@ReadyToHarvest Another idea is the different levels of KJVOism. Some just prefer it, others claim you aren't saved without it.
Yes
In the UPC for twenty five years. Defininalty works based religion. Thank God I found grace through faith.
DD, aw, so you love to sin so that God's grace can more greatly be provided?
@@Based-Anarcho-Syndicalist-Chad I don't understand what you mean by "works based". Why is it wrong for them to expect Christians to behave in a different way than the fallen world would have you behave?
@@Based-Anarcho-Syndicalist-Chad I don't think Holiness churches claim works produce salvation. I think that's just your spin on their doctrine. They claim works follows salvation. E.g. a woman isn't saved by wearing a skirt. She wears a skirt because she's saved.
@@Based-Anarcho-Syndicalist-Chad Dude, No, I'm not Pentacostal.
I agree. The Bible, rightly divided, teaches that by Jesus alone are we saved, His death, burial, and His ressurection. See 1Cor 15, the 1st 4 vs that do spell it out by Paul so very well. We are not saved by our walk, or our santifcation. God does not share His glory, nor can He, nor will He. Blessings
ngl comparing AG and UPCI is JUST like comparing COGIC and PAW
Would love to have seen Methodism as the bonus as most Pentecostal denominations find their roots in Methodism.
There is a minor correction that should be made. It is an acceptable practice in the UPCI to allow wine for communion as well as grape juice. Among conservative members it is well known that there were...strong feelings on the issue that occasionally led to breaks of fellowship between churches. When we were sitting under another pastor, my father would visit another church on New Year's Eve because the church we were at served wine during their annual communion and footwashing. Communion wine might be rare but is not as rare as some might think.
Agree! At the UPCI I used to attend "Apostolic Lighthouse" the Pastor served both; wine & grape juice. Church members could decide which one to consume in Communion. It was not however an issue at this Church & members respected each others preference.
@@sonicteal8723, that is a unique solution and one I have no issue with. I have heard tales of the "communion wars" in the Southwest. It was interesting to hear a call at one conference (not a UPCI conference) for unity during a communion service along with a statement that for the sake of those who would not be willing to drink wine that all participate with grace juice. Everyone consented and the communion was blessed.
Yes- my former UPCI church used wine.
What I object to is the white wafer most churches serve for communion that I can relate to as a former Roman Catholic /what happened to the unleavened bread? Also some prefer gluten free/anyway I carry crackers just in case .just dialoguing
@@maryhelencampos9964 I believe that most of our churches use either the oyster style crackers or broken saltiness. I know of none that actually use leavened bread for communion.
You are excellent in astute as always I will give you one correction as a son of a upci ordained minister and I'm also an aljc minister self
They did vote to allow TVs but they're still legalistic and many other ways which is why I'm moving on way better more biblical place also I now affirm the trinity, which makes me a heretic among them
How recently was this? I note the 2019 UPCI Manual says: "because of the display of all these evils on television, we disapprove of any of our people having television sets in their homes" (top of page 37) dividetheword.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/2019-upci-manual.pdf
If it weren’t for The Father we wouldn’t have The Son...I came out of UPC in 1989 and visited some in 2000 UPC hardly mentions The Father Yet King Jesus came to destroy the work of the devil and do away with sin and death and to show us The Father And also for Holy Spirit In dwelling...Just dialoguing
Love Apostolic Pentecostal churches🙌🏻 God loves both the UPCI and AOG. A video of the Apostolic assembly would be nice, very similar to UPCI.
My parents were in the A A fjc from Los Angeles CA Latino Oneness same as UPCI
I'm are UPCI and I loved this video because , it exposed my faith . Born UPCI and will aways die UPCI.
as a catholic, your videos are great for helping me parse out protestant denoms from each other. keep up the great content!
I'd really like to hear the backstory of when Jesus (or the Word of God in the old testament for that matter) said "no more playing baseball", because I appear to be missing that lesson.
1 John 5:21 GW
[21] Dear children, guard yourselves from false gods.
1 John 5:21 NLT
[21] Dear children, keep away from anything that might take God’s place in your hearts.
1 John 5:21 KJV
[21] Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
1 John 5:21 NIV
[21] Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.
1 John 5:21 AMP
[21] Little children (believers, dear ones), guard yourselves from idols-[false teachings, moral compromises, and anything that would take God’s place in your heart].
I now attend an Assemblies of God church, they claim they're non-denominational but they are a Spirit Filled-Charismatic off-branch Pentecostal church.
The Assemblies of God is officially a classical Pentecostal denomination, but many individual congregations within the AG shy away from that terminology so as to appear more evangelical/non-denominational and have a broader appeal. Also officially, the AG doesn't like to be termed a "denomination", which is why you often hear the term "fellowship" used instead.
@@floridapanhandling3136 AG use to claim to be non-denomination. I guess it just because too stupid even for them to continue that claim.
They see may see themselves as nondenominational because they're run independently compared to foursquare.
While I was at assembly of cod I spoke in tounge I am a lurtheram
God is no respecter of persons nor denominations he will fill.all if we allow
So AG is pretty standard for one of the baptist offshoots. LCMS is standard for the Lutheran line. UPC has some red flags, the biggest being that it is non-trinitarian. That is a heretical position to Christian orthodoxy and while I don't know which specific heresy but I at a glance on their position on the nature of God, I am leaning Modalism (Patrick). This does make them less objectionable than the Adventists (7th Day and JWs) who fall more into Arianism, but heresy is still a no go.
A year late but unless something has changed in the decade since I left the UPCI, they're still against women pastors. They might quibble on the technicalities of women in ministry but the role of pastor was totally off limits.
Perhaps the church you were a part of taught differently from the UPCI, but they have always been in favor of women in ministry. Here's the current General Superintendent of the church on the topic:
"I have seen the ministry of women first-hand. My mother, Loretta Bernard, has been a licensed minister for fifty years, serving alongside my father as missionary, evangelist, teacher, writer, church planter, and pastor. For several years he pastored one church while she pastored another in metropolitan Seoul, Korea. My wife’s grandmother, Edith Sharpe, founded a church in Austin, Texas, that grew to two hundred in attendance and was my wife’s pastor until she was fifteen. I preached my first revival for Hazel Frusha, founder and pastor of the United Pentecostal Church in Marble Falls, Texas. Another pastor who gave me early opportunities to preach was Billie Fluitt, founder and pastor of the United Pentecostal Church in Johnson City, Texas. Her husband was also a licensed minister and the leader of their home, but she fulfilled the primary preaching and pastoral responsibilities." www.apostolic.edu/women-in-ministry/
Also watch here: th-cam.com/video/BXQVZmBTyZA/w-d-xo.html
For UPCI, Its not modesty requirements its our own biblical conviction which is why we dont do those things because of what the bible says. It makes us sound crazy lol Also I never heard of mixed gender swimming not aloud, thats weird haha and the television is a choice. A lot of older folks dont have it because they dont want to be distracted by the tv like we are on our phones because we forget to spend time with God. Guilty lol But great video keep it up:)!
All denominations all fall under one Name..."The Ignorant Brethren" Jesus isn't divided. The truth is not many, but one.
mm
AG salvation is the basic evangelical
One is a cult and one isn’t…..
Amazing how all of these denominations are believing things they dont actually know and were not witness to .The apostles believed what they saw then they told us but the miracles did not stop with the apostles .Christ and God the Father can still communicate with those they intend to enlighten .Like the early church fathers none of them ever attempt to ask God what He thinks
Taboo and not quite right. This is a real deal breaker. Wow what a rabbit hole. They fuss.
Although I am not Pentecostal I agree entirely with Oneness as David K Bernard teaches. As someone who was trained to think any non trinitarian view was a heresy, thanks to a very late council basically saying so, I understand the strong defense to maintain what many think is the historic position. I disagree with Pentecostals on many other issues, and most protestants on faith alone, as it is commonly ripped from context and over applied to all areas of our walk.
The aog is a cult not a church
You spelt upci wrong
UPCI seems very controlling.
They are!
Some religions & even non-religious organizations can be controlling to include government. No surprise
UPCI will not allow their women to cut their hair, wear pants and have makeup. How impractical that is? They are so controlling of their followers.
@@zuozhen4758 You wont be kicked out of Church. However due to the disobedience to God the UPCI wont license a woman that they know does such things, and most UPCI Churches wont have her in leadership or anything like that. She can still attend Church and worship. Leadership is for those who obey God,which means obeying Gods word.
@@zuozhen4758 well the bible does tell us that we need to dress appropriate, God's house should always be treated with reverence and respect, but he's not telling us we have to go too overboard with it. just simple basic things, however women do need to make sure that they are dressed in a way that doesn't draw eyes to them. because God's house is meant to be a place we can spend some time with him, that we otherwise might not always have the time to devote ourselves at home when you have kids. however some churches go too far with forcing this and that, i don't go to any church that makes all my decisions for me. it's one thing to look nice and presentable in church, but it's another to add more rules on top. that's why the Church of God will always be the best, besides non-denominational churches. that's because there not Monotheistic like Catholics are, or Protestant which are Lutheran and Methodist.
Jesus created One Church, not thousands and thousands of man made Churches, all reading the same Bible yet teaching all kinds of different doctrines. Millions are being led to hell by fallible, inaccurate teachers who think they are not. In Matt 16:18, Jesus created a Church, the pillar and foundation of truth, in 1 Tim 3:15, and the Final Authority (not the Bible alone), in Matt 18:15-17. There was no bible until the late 4th Century. Martin Luther made up "Bible Alone" out of thin air in the 16th Century, along with other false teachings like "Faith Alone", "Once Saved Always Saved", a symbolic baptism, and a symbolic Lord's supper. In 107AD, St. Ignatius of Antioch, a Bishop in the Church Jesus created, wrote a letter calling his Church "Catholic", or Universal. The end.
Interesting? Apparently according to the book of Revelation “The True Church Of The Living GOD are those whose Robes are wash In The Blood Of The Lamb “...Just dialoguing
Your assessment respective to the UPCI Godhead is theologically errant.
Oneness is a heresy
Pretty much every Protestant Denomination is theologically Liberal.
Not necessarily:
PCUSA: liberal
PCA: conservative leaning liberal
Baptist: some are liberal some are conservative
LCMS: conservative
ELCA: liberal
Episcopal: Liberal
Anglican: mostly conservative
Church of England: liberal
Reformed Baptist: conservative
Methodist: liberal
AG: mostly conservative some are leaning liberal
Mennonite: conservative, yet some are very liberal
@@ramlin35 UMC is mixed, hence the schism.
If you take "theologically liberal" to mean "vastly deviating from the clear doctrine tought by the Bible", then basically every denomination is theologically liberal except confessional Lutherans, maaaayyyybe some Anglo-Catholics/Continuing Anglicans, and maaaaaaybeee some isolated Eastern churches.
Within protestantism they can be devided into evangelical (conservatives) that believe biblical inerrancy, and mainline churches that tend to be the theological liberals.
@@glennmartin802 Evangelicals are socially conservative but theologically liberal in their own way.
Churches that reject infant baptism and the Real Presence, hold to old Jewish heresies regarding the end times that were universally condemed by the historic church a thousand years ago, and have weird unbiblical ideas regarding spiritual gifts, cannot be considered theologically conservative.
They are both heretical
Your mom's heretical