Hyundai Kona MY2024 Geilo test gone wrong
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2023
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Always Be Crawling 😂
Good job Bjorn. Put them to it's passes so that we don't have to 👍
I think its enough free advertising for the sun now.
A little tip for the irritating driver attention warning (which is a required feature by law) : you can set one of the favorite buttons (button with star icon. One on steering wheel and one under main screen) to the assistant menu so that you save the steps going there. It makes the tedious process a bit easier 👍 it would have been nice to have a button to turn them off like in some other ev's though.. Great video - cheers from Denmark 🇩🇰😁
"You and me baby ain't nothing but mammals"....do you hear it?
you are so right! 😅
Entering turtle mode at 5% of the SoC can indeed be a bit scary, especially for an unadvanced user, but what happened later shows that it is probably more of a "feature" (i.e. software deficiency) than a real problem. Or a blatant marketing ploy to be able to show a greater than the actual useful range of the vehicle (because otherwise the SoC would have to show 0 when it now shows 5%). It should also be noted that there may be something to do with the fact that the car is new and the BMS has not yet been able to "learn" a reliable range prediction and in extreme circumstances it becomes a bit stupid. Either way -- this model seems to be better than its predecessor, for reasons Bjoern pointed out in previous videos. Although the materials (e.g. door panels) and the graphic design of the display are a bit disappointing (in the previous model, the icons were much more elegant IMO).
That's no excuse for a behavior like this, at least it should issue an appropriate warning before it just goes into power limit. Normally, a car should work down to 0% until any limitations apply...
Yes should have 65kWh of USABLE capacity, in addition to the buffer that the BMS doesn't let the driver see. If the usable capacity is actually 60kWh, that's either because the buffer is too small, or the BMS is too aggressive.
This can happen if some of the battery cells voltage is less than others. Then BMS limit power to protect this cell from deeper discharge. You can check individual voltages through the OBD2. My Niro, before it was stolen, had always voltages within 0,02V range difference but I read for a guy in Slovakia with one cell problem who had exactly the same issues. Car enters turtle mode at about 5% when cold. Normally these batteries should not go below 2.5V.
Sorry that your Niro was stolen... 😭
How did they steal it?
What lessons (defence for the future) did you learn about this?
after 2 kids I would prefer with protection
Why not just get a vasectomy at that point then?
@@swecreations sure that's an option
Seems that there is room for firmware improvements and if they change to less power limit and fix the annoying stuff this car will be a good car for the money. And hopefully The Sun turns the 22'rd of December this year too, right ?
I think Geilo test are becoming better and better, a good user test driving the car like a car buyer will do, more like a EV noob, not pro like the 1000 km test. Thanks for great video Bjørn
Depending on your timeline, but always om 21st or 22nd of December in Norway, 22. December this year. 🌞
@@ragnvaldj.kjelseth9482 Yes, 22'nd it was. Not sure The Sun cares though, unless they can make a clickbait of it
Thanks Bjorn great Video! I have the 2020 Kona and since day one I could never get to zero. Around 10 deg cel. totally dies at 4%. If it's really cold out like -18 to -28 mine will give reduced power at 32%. I talked on several occasions with both the dealer and Hyundai Canada they insist there's nothing wrong. Nice to see they haven't it! My next car won't be a Hyundai.
Ready Steady Charge channel did some winter trips in Alberta 2 years ago with a Kona and had pretty good results and could charge ok even when cold, although it could really use a preconditioning function.
Maybe BMS was thinking that it is summer since the garage was so hot and battery capacity was calculated as for summer. Then battery went cold and it lost some capacity :-?
Finally proper winter in Norway. Like it 😊
Hi Bjørn you can save yourself a few clicks by adding driver assistence to one of the Favorite Buttons (star).
It really should remember your preferences though. Perhaps it does if you are not a "guest" driver?
It doesn't remember because it's a new EU regulation. Every new car will have this annoying "feature" enabled at startup. Some just makes it easier to disable than others. Tesla lets you just click the speed sign on screen to mute@@NickFoster
For some reason, mine actually saves it if I disable it. Which ia ironic, because I don't want to 😅
I had this in the 2020 ioniq in winter. 5% but went into crawl. In the summer I'd been happily driving it at 1% with no major slow down. I noticed recently as the weather got colder the BMS soc was lower than the display soc. Really weird. Usually it's the other way round by about 3%. I think the BMS can't handle sudden changes in the average so it probably happened to me after a sudden temperature drop and high consumption after a long time of low consumption.
Does it leave more heat in the battery if you are navigating to a charger?
Is it the ‘unusable’ bit at the bottom when cold? Which is usable but only at capped discharge rate, evidenced by you suddenly getting a bit more after constant draw
I’ve only been below 10% once in my 2019 Kona, I got turtle mode at 4% and the range indicator switched to dashes like a Leaf. Thankfully I was off the interstate at that point and the acceleration didn’t seem too bad but it did catch me off guard. I was definitely able to go more than 15 km/h. This was with a battery that was only about a year old at the time because of the battery recall. I’ve seen people talk about balancing the cells, I’ve only been to 100% a handful of times so maybe that played a role.
Andrew Till/Mr. EV had a similar experience in the previous kia eniro, although not on a low temperature run. Over cautious software is putting drivers at risk.
"Krampetrækninger" 🇳🇴 🇩🇰 😂 love it!
Is this an issue with the battery cells are not even?
Bjørn is the old Kona also like that ?
SOC upon arrival now rolled out (server side) on EV6’s. Woohoo!!!!!
My Ioniq 5 has Utility Mode (as Camp Mode), does the Kona not have that?
12:02 That average speed is cool! Does anybody know if this already available in the european IONIQ 5? we have loads of these 'avg speed check' zones in The Netherlands and I have never seen this feature before.
Had it shown on my 19 Kona in Oslo fjord tunnel, but only a few times. Most of the time, it doesn't show up. Irritating enough, it wanted to slow the car down because I was a little bit over the shown speed zone limit. So actually happy when it'snot there.
My Ioniq classic used to the exactly the same thing even in the summer. Below 5% SoC the car was going into the turtle mode
Hi Bjorn. Another great video as I love the Winter drives that you do and the view of your house at night is great. I was just trying to work out your power prices, compared to Australian prices, from the chart that you showed at 23:22 min where it shows the daily average price of 172 ore which is AU$ 0.2408 per KWh. We are paying a flat rate at the moment of AU$ 0.38. Does your power price ever go negative, and what happens to the price you pay at these times.
That is pretty high. I'm in Melbourne and my time--of-use tariff is just $0.17/kWh for offpeak (2100-1500) and $0.30/kWh for peak (1500-2100). I'm with Ovo Energy in a United Energy distribution zone. I've set my charger to only charge during offpeak, so to fully charge a Model Y LR and accounting for some energy losses would be around 80 kWh = $13.60, which gives me around 500km.
@@alexandersaksvoll5373 exactly. It's cost me next to nothing to run this compared to my fossil GLC43. Also pretty much zero servicing since there is nothing to change (except maybe once every 2 years for fluids inspection, when the computer tells me to). No such thing as fixed/regular service intervals with EVs, and brakes on EVs are known to last beyond 250,000km before needing a change since most braking is done on regenerative. Battery degradation is also not a concern since there are many first-gen Model S from nearly 10 years ago with less than 10% battery degradation today (and those have older chemistry).
Good to know that you can't 'go deep' with this Kona.. and usually I'm too scared to go below 10% capacity anyway in Winter on any EV.
My Kia e-Niro 2020 did the same yesterday with 6% battery left😡 It has done so severel times before, but after they changed the mcu on warrenty the car has been ok. Now no more warrenty and it lost all power again😡
Opplevde akkurat det samme for 2 uker siden. Med en 3 år gammel VW Id3, kaldt batteri, -3 grader ute, 5% igjen på batteriet og 7km/t
hi Bjørn, when are you planning to test or look at the new chinese hiphi x and z ? I was today at Strømmen Storsenter, it was a showroom . I must say there were some nice cars, but over 1.2 million is probably a bit too much for a Chinese car.
Id like to see the same test with battery conditioning on, maybe a different result.
Very beautiful country!
Good and efficient car!
More videos whit Valdemaras pls
My 2019 Kona E did the same thing last winter, it was showing 5% battery when it went into limp mode.😮. When I arrived home I charged it up too 100% which seemed to reset the computer and after that it never occurred again. 😅 ( I know, never say never )
“That’s how I prefer doing it “ 😂
So what I got from this video is that if you go deep without protection you will definitely come late 🤣🤣
I think you’ll save money, not charging the temperature that drastic in your garage. It uses quite a lot of energy heating up the floor.
In my old Kona 2019 I once got turtle mode at 11%, despite a theoretical range of 20 km on wintery motorways, but it didn't always do that. I was driving up to Liertoppen in the middle of winter at the time and had to pull over to charge at the Supercharger there. I barely made it up the hill. Scary! No way to turn around on the motorway and charge at Kjellstad instead.
It's my thought that Kona enters turtle mode at a fluid state dependent on several factors, battery temperature definitely being one of them, and the car reporting 0% seems to be a true 0%. No extra charge banked up at the low end. It desperately wants to scare you into charging before it's too late.
Alternatively, and I'm purely speculating, the BMS might not be very good at balancing the cells at all times and over reports the soc throughout the battery pack if one module separately has a lower charge and is telling the car to enter turtle mode to avoid over discharge? 🤷🏻
When I look at the numbers, it appears the percentage for the climate system consumption is calculated too high by a factor 10x. To get the correct figures, all the percentages then need to be rescaled to sum up to 100%. At 5:55 when it says driving 61% electronics 2% and climate 37%, i believe the correct numbers are 91%, 3% and 5.5%
The percentages are NOT instant values but averages over a certain figure (either the last hour or the trip I forget). I’m not sure Bjorn even knew that… The kWh values ARE instant.
Could be true, but it's bad UI design. Let the user switch between instant and historic for both values, don't mix them.
Having to do settings every time is a hard no to this vehicle.
What app is that? Is that Car Scanner? Car scanner!
They don’t left chat this time then
21:50 in next Year you cant switch that off anymore in EU (i know Norway isnt in it).
AC charging with KIA/Hyundai in cold weather: always heat up the battery first, almost nothing gone to the battery if you charge for only a short time (example: 20-30min shopping with KIA deNiro 39kWh, it can take only 7,2kW but if you use a power limited 22kW AC station, it only give you 20A in one phase, that means if you put your car to charge, only the battery get power, you get 0% to the battery)
The range indicater in Kia/ Hyundai has always been rubbish😢.
I used to drive a Kia Cerato diesel (aka Lucifer 🤣) back in 2005-2010 and for, at least, 3 times the car was out of fuel when the range indicater was around 60km.
Seems to be a feature they want to preserve for the future 😅😅.
Apart from that ( and beeing a little thirsty above 110km/h) the car was great 👍
The Sun opening champagne bottles
Has it got accidentally 28kWh Ioniq software? 😉
As far as I remember this one gets into turtle mode at 5%, or was it 3%
Marcus for the win. But not Salto warranty 🤬. Old school is cool school. Ioniq for the hot botty
And that is why the car kept bugging you!! 😂
Or maybe a solution could be for the car to stop scavenging the battery sooner when cold outside and navigated somewhere when the car will “know” that will end up low % on arrival, so maybe in those cases, keep battery not below 10°C? 🤷♂️
I am betting someone made a mistake entering the values for the limp mode power limits, and got them back-to-front; hence you getting more power when the battery was nearly dead.
In other words, this should be a simple software fix - possibly in the next update.
embarrassing for Hyundai if their QA didnt catch something like that
@@r5LgxTbQ Maybe; I suspect there are a lot of lines of code; the values are valid, so an automatic tester probably wouldnt have spotted the problem; and a manual read by a meat-sack might easily see the correct two values, but not spot they were switched.
@@ianemery2925 sure its lines of code, but If I have to do a lot of testing on my apps that cant even hurt a human, I hope that car manufactors have high standards when reviewing code and bug testing... or whats next, no brakes cause of a bug?
@@AndrewTSq I hope not, perhaps only reduced regen; I dont know how much is mechanical hardware and how much is software driven on these newer cars; it is a bit scary.
@@ianemery2925 EV's and Hybrids are usually brake by wire, so a computer controls the hydraulic pressure to the brakes.
There should be some warning about limp mode at 5% level, e.g. at 10%.
Can we please get a ETA for the highland content?
Been to 1% in the Niro without that happening. Was the battery balanced or have they changed the chemistry such that it cant cope with low temperatures. This AC charging heating thing is a nonsense and could be a deal breaker for me if they dont fix it.
Your battery was most likely not that cold.
@@bjornnyland fair point. May have to test that! It doesn't heat on AC unless it's 11kW tho.
@@bjornnyland did you try charging single phase? Still pulling heater power? That would be weird
Being a huge fan of ev I still can’t imagine having this one or a Tesla as a single car
Maybe car has a bad cell? My Kia e-Niro MY 2020 has a bad cell. Voltage drift with cold conditions very high.
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Good to know, now Kona is definitely out of my choice.
I have a question.
These modern cars that can be charged with 150kw or more. We know that fastcharging has negative impact on battery life.
But is there any difference between speed of charging?!
What if i take one of these modern gen EVs that can handle 170kw but i do it on 50kw stations?!?
How does that affect battery life?!
Maybe a little, but "these modern cars" automatically limit the charge rate to even less than 50 kW when the battery is more sensitive to charging. Wrong temperature, high state of charge, that sort of thing. So limiting charge rate when the battery is happy will mostly just give you extra time for your bathroom pitstop on the road trip.
@roberts.wilson1848 If the charger cannot deliver more than 50 kW, it never reach those high speeds. And they wouldn't need as hot batteries as when they are ready to receive higher effects. To say, when it was to cold for my car to take 77-78 kW, they still charge nicely at 47-48 kW or even 55-58 kW. It isn't as stressful for the batteries. Anyway, chargers dosent deliver higher effects than it self says is OK, but if the charger is the limit, then there is no issues of that kind.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 is not about the long trips but for daily use.
Remember, most people live in cities and in apartment flats not houses, so we don't have home charging option.
And using a public slow charger, lol, not an option.
Thus, if using a 50kw max capable station for one of these latest gen EVs that are capable of much more, my hope would be the effect is minimal.
I know slow charging is best, but when you don't have a house with a slow charger to use, you must think of options that aren't bad.
@@ragnvaldj.kjelseth9482 ...except boredom, I guess.
@@roberts.wilson1848 I see your point. I have wondered myself if 50 kW would be perfect for a restaurant or a shopping center where you spend about an hour, so you don't have to run out to move the car before the dessert. But more importantly, apartments have electricity. I live in an apartment/flat and I charge at home. Because of course I do, since I live in Norway. But this is true everywhere: If you are in a city and park your car, you can usually throw a banana (for scale) further than the distance to the nearest wire at mains voltage (it may be under ground, but it still counts). Modern slow chargers do the load balancing trick, so you can set up chargers for everybody with much less power available than is needed for all of them to charge at once. The tech is a solved problem.
The Sun has joined the chat (again) heheh
Ignore them and they might go away 🙄
So Hyundai must have changed something in the energy management system, because the old Kona did not complain even with a 4% SoC, and it entered turtle mode much later (and probably without such drastic power limitations). It probably has something to do with changed battery chemistry, which is more sensitive to deep discharge.
Deep discharge does not happen at 10% or even at 5%. Just like when the battery is at 100% it isn't overcharged, getting to 0% isn't deep discharged. Deep discharge is a state when the battery goes below minimum voltage, below 0%, below the safe voltage at which point any EV or Li-Ion powered device stops operating. At 0% the battery is still in a temporary safe state, it's not ok to leave it for a long time in that state but nonetheless it won't take any damage if that point is reached. For Li-Ion that safe voltage is at around 3V, it depends on the manufacturer and specific chemistry. Below that voltage the chemicals in the battery start reacting in a way that damages the battery much faster, like dendrites forming and chemicals getting altered thus reducing capacity, performance and safety.
@@ndc5544p I don't know what the upper voltage limit is like in the Kona, but when it comes to the lower one, the software shows 0% SoC when certain battery operating conditions are met. This mainly involves exceeding the lower voltage limit on one of the cells, e.g. 3.25V, but probably also exceeding the limit of the maximum voltage difference between individual cells. Temperature may also have an impact (e.g. at a cell temperature of 10°C the minimum voltage allowed will be 3.25V, but at 30°C 3.15V, whatever). And now, depending on the cell chemistry, designers know that hitting the lower limit in one case will be better tolerated than in another, so they set more or less stringent limits and software responses. For example, they increase the lower battery buffer or impose stricter restrictions in turtle mode. Therefore, 0% SoC appears in a completely different place for different cell types and causes different usability limitations.
My -19 E-Niro got into turtlemode at 8% when it was -20c outside
I experienced the same with my own 19 Kona. At the end, the power was drastically low. Turned of NAV and screen, and then suddenly the car became alt more responsive. I was on my way to an Ionity charger, and it should be within reach even though a cold car used more than i showed in expected range. Drove to the charging station, and when plugging in, the charger showed 2 %, and when I got in the car, it showed me how many km's i could have driven until totally empty. It wasn't a lot.
May bee my battery is unbalanced, since i have only access to shared chargers at home, and as soon as I reach my expected charge limit (90 %), the power is cut. So no chance of balancing the cells.
@@skyfox77 so, maybe it is temperature-dependent event?
The turtle mode users should just keep the car arrival at more than 8% (a little headroom), the car did warn you your have insufficient charge to reach, but you assumed 5% was sufficient. I would give it a pass.
A kona sempre deu que fazer😅😅
your Kona doesn’t like it when you go deep, that was the one good thing about the X. 😉
This car does not look like a car that has a better COD than the previous model. It's bigger than the older model!
I have 48kw version of 2024 kona, i did 450 with 100% 3 days ago with climate on.
I had this twice on my old e-Niro. I'm reluctant to go so low on any EV now as it was brown trousers time (one time was on the motorway). I assumed at the time it was because I'd not charged up to 100% to balance the cells, but that can't be the issue with your Kona.
th-cam.com/video/QkviPRDkwqk/w-d-xo.html
I have to wonder if someone tried to be _too_ clever.
Apparently, the car is trying to do magic with heat in the battery. Trying to heat it up (during charging, even AC charging) beyond the min temp at which it can maintain a full charge ‒ maybe to store more energy as heat in there, to use for further heat scavenging? And then counting that energy as part of the graph ‒ that is, if the graph didn't account only for electricity from the battery, but also the heat taken out?
I could imagine it went a bit too far with extracting the heat, then trying to not scavenge any more, but too late, getting the turtle mode, heating it a little bit to allow more power (somewhere in the decimals not shown)…
Yes, it would be interesting to know what actually happened there. I would be interested to know if such limp mode happens in less cold situations too, if all the needed fix is just moving the limit how much it can scavenge the heat.
Well the car tells you about the range pb and you are gone under 5 % at -4 so… you were looking for problems :-) did you expect warning about tortue mode under 5 % ? 0-5 % in winter is a game you like to play and car gives you somme adventure !
Because all other EVs I have tried does not go into this extreme crawl mode until 0 %.
Something is not right here! At 19:54 you get full 90 kW charge power at battery temp of just max 16 degrees. So then why keep the battery heater running? And cold-gate? of course not! In the Ioniq38.3 charge current is limited all up to 25 degrees which justifies heating up the battery but here it should not be needed hardly at all.
Is the new Kona really taking heat from the battery to heat up the cabin? I thought that was just a Tesla thing with its complicated "octovalve".
It might only be able to take that charging power at very low SoC. At for example 50 % and 10°C, I bet the speed won't be 95 kW.
That is very strange. Limp mode when battery was 14 degrees - probably was not due to cold gating. Old Kona does not surprise you like that!
@MBBHD I Guess Tesla learned this from Hyundai Kona, as the old one does the same. Actually, I think the old Hyundai Ioniq 28 kWh did the same, but it got upgraded/improved with the Kona.
And at that time, Tesla didn't have the Octovalve!
The truth is one: traditional carmakers still don’t know how to make good EVs. Efficiency is also not good enough.
You know that Hyundai an Kia makes some of the best and least thirsty EV's in the market? And that's even on platforms that isn't BEV Only! 😉
Shiiiiii-it😂
Always Be Turtle
New test, Geilo Zero Mile test :/
What has happened to Hyundai, 64 KW battery and under 300 km range? The Ioniq with 38 KW has a range of 350 km
WLTP
180km in bjorns winter range test
@@alt572 yes, I forgot it is winter :-), Not in Bergen, raining cats and dogs here :-)
19" tyres problem.... 17" has like 60km more range WLTP
@@Bjornar_GjostolWLTP stands for Won't Last To Plug.
Take a reliable fuel car
i like only petrol and diesel cars....please people future is not in electric cars...WE NEED TEST IN -10-20 c...with electric car
Björn: It keeps bugging me that it needs to charge, but I know better.
Also Björn: It didn't pass, because limp mode was a disapointment.
I guess someone here thinks that limp mode at 5 % is ok... Lol
@@bjornnyland No, I think the Kona battery sucks and Hyundai know that, thus the messages. If you think you know better than Hyundai, that's what you get. My opponion on the car is completely irrelevant, all I'm saying is, the car told you. But yeah, it's uggly, it charges too slow, it's FWD and it goes into limp mode because it hates Norwegian weather. It clearly has its shortcomings.
That isnt a 2024 we are in 2023 and it was made in 2023
They call it Model Year 2024. Quite common for car manufacturers.
Have you seen the car? It was obviously manufactured in the future 😎🤣
Sheeeeyiiiiiit!
You might not really want to be associated with the Sun. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coverage_of_the_Hillsborough_disaster_by_The_Sun
What makes you think I want to be associated with The Sun? You must be new here...
th-cam.com/video/70TzHCIBkos/w-d-xo.html
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