@@MagiRemmie only for like 1 format, and it was neos alius in early 5Ds era, along with 1900+ atk beat sticks. Nobody actually used thier gemini effects either
I believe in Rata’s theory that toon is a monster ability rather than just an archetype name because they needed to save ink not having to print quotation marks around it every time
@@johnnyjohnson4265 Most "abilities" definitely are archetype before they were a thing. There is almost nothing intrinsic to them at all, what they do is already dependant on the effect text (like any card!) and if they wanted, they could make some cards with these abilities that no longer worked their trademarked ways.
@@zephshoirI think they should also get rid of the Ability text and stuff that in the rule book, provided they actually have a consistent ability effect (Toons are too all over the place unlike the others). The freed up space mean they can actually print more of these ability cards that have actual good effects.
@@TaLeng2023If I remember correctly I've heard the head of development for YGO has said the purposefully are against using keywords in the way games like MtG do. The idea is they want people to be able to play the game without having to look up new card effects mid-combat, so everything is explained on the cards themselves as much as possible
Toons desperately need a full revamp with errata's for older cards to make the Toon ability consistent and new modern support. Like I'm all for Toon versions of every series' protagonist and rival (Stardust Toon Dragon, Red Toon Dragon Archfiend, Elemental TOON Neos, etc.).
The issue is that if you only go with Ace monsters, you get the Malefic issue where you don't have a real deck and just a series of splashable bosses. You're right that Toons need a full revamp. I'd actually argue they should lean into the anime gimmick of converting an opponent's monsters, actually. Would it be obnoxious? Yes. Would it play havoc with the meta and make people rethink their game plan? Also yes.
@clayxros576 card design wise so otk decks still exist back in those days disruption didn't exist to the point where it was obnoxious, (shoutout to the boy!) HTs I mean so now a days I say, it would be cool if the deck was snatch steal.dek so you play with your opponents monsters comic hand is probably the best card they have.
Screw more boss monsters. Toons have enough of those. Where are Toon Ash Blossom, Toon Maxx C, Toon Tour Guide, Toon Linkuriboh, Toon Sky Striker Raye, or Toon Glow Up Bulb? What toons need is more shit that actually allows them to get the high level Toons on the field easier. Any just turn the Toon Ability into an inherent effect like Flip Effects instead of something that has to be printed on every card. That way if they feel like updating it for the sixth time, they can just change the ruling instead of each individual card.
The Toon Chaos support was pretty cool but I'd love to see them experiment with toon monsters outside of DM like they did for a bit with Cyber Dragon and Ancient Gear Golem
Tbf, outside of Cyber Dragon from Zane and Harpie Lady from Mai, all of the Toon monsters are just Toon-ified versions of monsters from duelists Pegasus has faced.
There are still a decent amount of monster that can be turned into toons. Toon Relinquished would be cool but maybe any monster from duelist kingdome would also be great. Like pumpking, the legendary fisherman, rex ace monster, ultimate great moth/insect queen. Etc
Toons have archetype seach cards like contents so yea their a archetype always have been Archetypes have been apart of the series since the first manga arc in yugioh duelist Mai infamously ran a harpie deck even in duelist kingdom
@@DragonBallsolosyourversebut that's not introduced in the actual game at that point archetypes are defined by card effects mentioning it, not just "a theme of cards" can be called as an archetype. Toon as an archetype is way later then it's an ability, early toon cards can only search themselves by their ability
I think the reason toons are so bad because they were designed to be based on Magic the Gathering. With Toon World being a land and they all have summoning sickness and can't attack the turn they are summoned. Toons are a cool idea but I think they were meant to be bad on purpose unlike the manga/anime versions.
Geminis have been tier 1 in Hero Beat meta, and around the same time, Gigaplant was also a really powerful card. That's significantly better than anything Toons have ever done in history. Table of content being in Sky Strikers got dropped pretty quick the moment they got more spell cards, and people realized the 3 spells in gy weren't as important as other forms of removal
Toons have the same problem as any "anime archetype" in that the support that they're printing relies too heavily on unplayable oldschool cards. People who play Toons obviously do it because they're nostalgic for the anime and those old cards. So when Konami prints Toon support it's usually for fanservice reasons that try to elevate those bad cards instead of making Toon an actual viable strategy.
Gemini is only slightly better. Since they had better support and a couple of actual good cards. Toons need so much just to play them. Toons would work in MTG but not yugioh.
Toons will forever remind me of watching the dubbed anime on Saturday mornings and thinking, "that's so stupid!" when Pegasus was like, "I got the castle and they're god mode now."
Toons are funny because for all intents and purposes, they shouldn’t even *be* an ability, since pretty much all of them have “Toon” in their name anyway. But I guess Konami didn’t feel like giving Manga Ryu-Ran a clause that made it a “Toon” monster, probably because pre-PSCT would fill the card with too much text, so they just… made it an ability. Also to all the people saying Gemini is worse aren’t wrong exactly, but given an extensive history of both it and Toons and you realize Gemini had a lot more competitive relevance (Gigaplant, Neos Alius).
I kinda hope to one day see someone play a toon deck and win a tournament mainly because I want to see a video of after of someone explaining every single rule and way the cards interacted due to toons being wack
It's very funny, I don't think there's a deck that is simultaneously as consistent as Toons with it's 5 search spells, but has one of the lowest ceilings of any deck. It maybe ends on 1 omni and a few assholes that are annoying to out thanks to Kingdom. It's better going second but to be frank, the boardbreakers and other non-engine are doing a lot of the heavy lifting
Drytron or some other ritual deck probably has the most searchers but toon for all its search spells still somehow manages to be very inconsistent at resolving toon dark magician
I have a Toon Blue Eyes that I pulled from a pack as a kid. It carried me through Dark Duel Stories since toons in that game were just their normal counterpart but a different name.
How about some Toon monsters that aren't necessarily cartoon versions of other monsters, but just support the archetype. Imagine retreads of cards like Dark Rabbit, Parrot Dragon, and Toon Alligator.
@shadowoodslasher but there's no monster depicted in the artwork. If it was a card like Tribute to the Doomed, you could change the mummies in the art to look more cartoonish , and you could call it "Tribute to the Toon!"
The cheese deck in Duel Links resulted in one of the silliest Worlds ever when the Grand Finals was literally a Toon Mirror match where the other guy kept bricking while his opponent would get the OTK.
You’d be surprised how decent Toons fair in master duel especially, few people are prepared for just how annoying Toons can truly be if allowed a second to get going
@@usagifangI have a pure toon deck that I run for memes, but its surprisingly effective if your opponent isn't ready for it. Its also halarious to watch "Meta" seeking players try to shut it down on a turn 1, bc they typically just shut down the first search and never bother to read the cards
@@Kessogsasaina it’s honestly great and niche enough a lot of people aren’t ready for the gimmicks like comic hand, BLS, and toon bookmark protecting Kingdom it’s not quite a meta killer but Toons got hands if the meta ain’t ready 😂
as a toon player, its really annoying because they could easily fix it, like just make toons a flood deck that has a lot of negates for removals. none of the cards have to be heavy hitters since they can bypass monsters and the cheese of negates is in theme. Plus there's a bunch of "not-really" toon toon cards that could be remade to work within the current group. It's annoying that my fav archtype has been mishandled since day one.
Toons are a fairly consistent rogue deck in Duel Links thanks to Toonvitation. They're carried HARD by that skill, but they do tend to put in work ever since that skill came out.
@@Pikapuff30 oh ye my brain completely sorted them out because I didn't even know those monsters existed, also I thought they only made like 1 archetype and 5 individual gemini monsters before deciding that they were a bad idea.
Gemini had hero beat, gigavise, il blud in zombie strategies, now gemini as a full-blown deck is very popular in Edison as well. It might not make the cut for modern standards, but it saw a lot of competitive success in the past.
@@swisschese1323 Does Hero Beat really count? that sounds more like "Gemini saw play in form of neos allius not because what it does, but because what it is" and gemini spark. at least toons, the occasional times you see them in ladder in master duel are played for what they do
Toons were powerful in the anime because you couldn't attack directly in duelist Kingdom and since they had so many crazy abilities that we have yet to get really like they can't be targeted for a attacks that combined with the whole can't attack directly means their borderline invincible
That and the complete non-existence of backrow removal, their gimmick was surprisingly simple, can't be destroyed in battle with monsters of the same atk and you can't attack them when they hide in Toon World and it was that car that gave them their powers.
Elemental HERO Neos Alius carried the whole gemini ability on his back back in edison. Heroes being meta means it was actually a good card at some point unlike toons even though toons is 100% more playable at the moment.
Best way to buff toons is to have them be able to force themselves to the graveyard and make them have a whacky mechanic where they can dodge targeting, making them slippery matching their cartoon theme.
I see the phni and lede yubel support i feel like toons could use a bit of the same. Support that makes them into a cohesive strategy but not leaving its anime game plan behind
They should just outright get rid of the Ability text and place it in the rulebook (They might have to make sure the ability text is consistent tho). Then it'll be just like flip monster. Speaking of flip monsters, am I the only one who want them to have the effect to flip themselves down, kinda like Subterrors?
Toon world in the show literally stole the opponent's cards and turned them into toons. Those toons could then retreat to toon world to be invincible. I remember the utter disappointment i felt when i saw the toon cards irl. They are literally just more expensive, way less useful versions of their regular counterparts.
The new support does all that though. Toon Kingdom makes them untargetable and can’t be destroyed by battle or card effects. Toon comic hand let’s you steal your opponents monster and turn it into a toon.
@@legalam kid I'm talking about the original release, as in, when they first became cards in the US, about a month after the first airing of the duel against Pegasus.
See the problem is toons was the first attempt at an archetype so rather instead of simply giving them all the name toon which happened anyway they made toon the ability this doesn't happen in future archetypes
What about LV ? It says a lot about LV that even its best representatives from Anime decks (Armed Dragon and Silent Magician / Swordsman) BOTH got full revamps over trying to support that ill fated mechanic.
Honestly, if Toons were made today, they might have been designed as an archetype that either replaces a monster with its toon counterpart from the Extra Deck (it would be a fusion monster) or be given a Toon counter with all of the rulings attached to that counter.
Toons need a Tuner monster sp we can have a Tooner Monster. Like my Custom card: Toon Junk Synchron DARK / Level 3 Warrior / Toon / Tuner. When this card is normal summoned, target 1 toon monster in your graveyard and special summon it. Its level is changed to 2 and cannot be used as xyz material. With this we can summon possibly a Toon Junk Warrior! (PLZ KONAMI LET ME GIVE YOU IDEAS)
Pegasus wasn't kidding in that duel with Kaiba in the first movie when he summoned blue eyes toon dragon: "Don't worry, I assure you he's quite docile!"
I think the issue is that toons, with the way their effects worked were just too naturally broken without the limits... but the limits made them suck....
In yu gi oh gx tag force 2 for the psp, in the underground class minigame, the go-to strategy is to create a deck that's nothing but small burn effects, and a way to destroy opposing des wombat. In this game mode, toon cannon soldier is a welcome addition, although it for sure is just you getting to have extra copies of cannon soldier
As a kid i was so psyched when toons were first released. Nothing like having a deck with toon mermaid, toon summoned skull, toon blue eyes, and manga ryu ran
One way to fix Yugioh: Monsters set face-down in defense position cannot be removed from the field by any card unless its condition(s) for activation require a set card as a target.
The toon cards should've worked like the anime - they would be alternate artworks of the cards they're based on, and Toon World would give all your monsters specific abilities. Chiefly, the ability to dodge all attacks unless targeted by other Toon monsters - Toons can only attack Toons (unless specifically affected by cards that prevent a monster from attacking or switching position, like how shadow chain was able to bind Toon Blue Eyes), but you can either receive direct attack damage or deliver it, as a counter balance.
You know, better card design for toons would be having the universal toon abilities on toon world that way if Konami wanted individual abilities, they could have the space on the toon monster(s) themselves
Indeed. Or just get rid of the Ability text, put it in the rulebook meaning it's required knowledge. Flips don't have to say "When this face down card is flipped face up, do this...". No, it just have the effect directly. If they can free space for card text then they might be able to design better Ability cards.
Toons are some of my favourite cards in yugioh so much so I always have a toon deck with me. Would love to see toon specific xyz, link and syncros in the future!!
I still love my toon deck. Its so satisfying to interrupt an opponents 10mins of summoning with niberu only to yoink it back with comic hand and then attack twice with toon roll back
If you can keep Toon Kingdom on the field, Toons can actually be a bit of a menace. The only thing that'll stop them from reaching over and smacking you in the face are effects that both don't target and don't destroy. The setup is the painful part though. On top of that, recovery is non-existant in this deck. And the only protection Toon Kingdom gets are: - Toon Bookmark (in the GY; once per turn, Bookmark can be banished to stop Kingdom from being destroyed) and - Toon Terror (a searchable omni-negate which is nice, however it is a trap which makes it a bit slow)
Toons could definitely get a pretty interesting revamp if they started printing Toon versions of monsters that came out after the original series. (Besides Cyber Dragon and Ancient Gear Golem, those two are like the 2 exceptions to this) Like a few Resonator or Synchron toons that make Synchro monsters summoned with them count as toons. Or maybe start making extra deck toon monsters. If you want to make things silly, have a few toon fusions that are just blatently a couple of the preexisting toon monsters forced into bad costumes. Say something like "Toon Grey Dragon of Blue-Eyes and Red-Eyes". It literally shows the unhappy Toon Blue-Eyes and Toon Red-Eyes super glued to each other's side and both getting spray painted grey by several of the more minor toons. Maybe a "Toon Harpie Dragon" that is just showing a very confused Manga Ryu-Ran having a Toon Harpie Lady riding on its back and giving orders. Maybe a few synchro toons could be summoned without a tuner if you use a toon monster. (Making them "Tooners" if you'll excuse the subtle pun). Maybe a Toon Stardust Dragon or the like that could help you recover cards banished by Toon Kingdom? Perhaps a couple Pendulum monsters that count as Toonworld in the Pendulum scales. Maybe a "Toon Kaiba Boys" monster that just shows chibi versions of Kaiba and Mokuba in Kaibaman outfits.
at least toon have the capability of "attack directly" next turn aka an actual threat, if they actually survive to see the said next turn they are pretty dang good.
The best case scenario for toons is going third summoning on turn 2 toons ready to otk without interruptions. Using toon mask and toon page flip to end phase summon big beaters that will hopefully have the field spell still on board. That's a tall order to ask for. I still love toons though. The art and the concept still intrigued me.
I thought Gemini was the worst Ability (the only exception being "Gemini Spark" Deck, featuring Neos Alius as its boss monster not because for what it does , but because for what it is). Alongside Gigaplant and Il Blud Toons at least are semi-playable in modern day, occasionally leeting you cheese wins in Master duel and duel links
The problem is there's no real coherent "thing" for toons, like lets assume they errata old cards so they all work off the most recent toon rules, all you get is a archetype specific search and some mid sized beat sticks that are slightly stickier than average. If i was tasked with making toons viable theres two major forms of support id create, first is a series of Continuous spells and equip spells to give toons special effects (for example, an equip spell "Ten Ton Toon Hammer" which does two things when equipped, first would be it counts as toon world for whatever its equipped to (so it at least survives the loss of toon world once) and second is it does piercing damage on attack. Another example would be "Toon ink fountain" which is a continuous spell that lets you send a toon from the field once per turn to add a toon spell from grave to hand. The second would be a small set of Link monster support, mainly a rank 1 "living inkdrop" that functions as a mini toonworld (so for example if you have it on board you can sacrifice summon Toon BLS and use its effect without the Field spell) and a 4/5 link boss monster, (id make it a toon pegasus visually) and his whole deal would be making non toons into toon monsters so they can use the new (in my fix) toon equipment spells
They easily could have made them at least useable. Just add another toon town (or world I can’t remember) spell card that makes it so you don’t have to pay life points to attack. Then another that lets them attack on the same turn they are summoned. And another that lets you search for any toon world spell card. Basically your entire spell zone would be the toon world book spread out. Then actually add enough toon monsters for a deck instead of the, what? Six we have?
In Duel links the toon deck could actually be playable and was a reasonably successful OTK with toon cyber dragon, toon DMG and toon rollback. Add in relinquished support as a back up you can fuck with it
Personally I'd love to see a Pegasus Structure deck that just focuses on a ton of new modernized Toons without all the restrictions. Maybe even make them illusions for some innate protection when you lack Toon Kingdom. Plus Illusion is already focused on being yugi boomer bait so Toon cards fit right in. I don't think they could add enough to make the deck more than rogue at best, but giving them a big modern foundation to work off of would be a step in the right direction.
I remember a guy at locals playing a ton deck and had to explain to his opponent the different classifications of toons just so they both knew how they worked.
Pegasus also cheated by reading minds, made a special set of cards no one knew about, and if you found out via dueling him, he’d take your soul before you could ever rematch him.
I love toons cards they’re also fun to play with red eyes toon dragon and the red eyes egg card but it’s very heavily reliant on toon world spell and felid card but they’re not alot of extra cards can help it
God i reallt want more toon support. I absolutely love the toon archetype and my duel links toon deck to this day is one of my absolute favorites to bust out on the ladder.
3 books 1 toon cyber was meta when I quit ygo. When you could only special to the extra monster zone and that one cimeratech fusion monster was a decent option. Good old times 😅
As a Yugi Boomer fresh on Master Duel Toons was one of the first archetypes i tried to build competitively I deeply regret that decision. Comic Hand is such newbie bait
Man I remember bein in high school in 2013 my buddy got his toon deck stolen out of his backpack, I remember he got instantly better now that the tools weren't holding him back...
Toon strategy feels like it suppose to be snatching opponent's monster(s) and replaces it with a Toon version ala Mask Change but Konami seems clueless during that time......
Imagine coming up with a deck that could be destroyed just by your player getting rid of one magic card like with de-spell. Not to mention your monsters can't attack immediately & you have to give up life points to attack. Yes, you can attack your opponent directly but what good is that when they can attack too or counter your attacks. Also to use a toon deck u might need to run 3 copies of 2 cards just so u can have a chance to summon monsters on your field
A classic case of not reading what the card does to understand its effects almost every toon card needs toon world and can attack your opponent directly if they don’t have toon world if toon world or its variations like toon kingdom is not on the field toon monsters cannot exist on the field because they need toon world toons are simply short for cartoon it’s the same monster card but as a cartoon that cannot be destroyed by normal battle it simply adds that they need toon world on the field to exist and attack directly every other effect is taken from the original card.
To fix toons, get rid of mandatory 'Toon World' to play them. Too much easy backrow destruction. Have 'Toon World' do more and better effect. Like a 'Toon World' that says "toons monsters you control cannot be targeted by opponent effects" and toons dont need 'Toon World' on the field to play them but gain their effects if its on the field. This wouldn't make a toon deck but would make a lot more toons playable. Examples: toons blues eyes can go into regular blue eyes theme deck and same as dark magician. So theyre basically Gemini but instead of using normal summon, you need Toon World to get their effect.
I mean the same should be said about Gemini as being worse flip monster. here a monster that needs to be face up to have its effect you must waste a turn to re-normal summon it meaning so to get any real value out of them where to SS some one and then normal them to turn on their effects in one turn mean while they were like how about a spell that lets you normal summon twice a turn their no problem with this. . . then synchro summon happen.
I got to play with a Toon deck on Master duel. It's a pretty fast deck, but it's kinda pass/fail. Either you get your draw and are able to sweep, or they get the draw needed to counter your first turn setup, and you're SOL. Very swingy, but definitely a usable deck archetype.
You know it’s bad when they have cards that would be broken in other archetypes, like one that steals your opponent’s monster and turns it toon and another that copies any card in your opponent’s graveyard for free and it still didn’t make them viable.
I feel like another major issue with Toon monsters is every toon requires so much generic rules text on every monster that its often impossible to have them do anything else. So mu h card real estate is taken up with requirements and rules clarity.
All they gotta do to fix TOON is take away the “can’t attack the same turn the card was summoned” just reprint and take that text off along with adding some TOON fusion monsters. It’s seriously that easy 🤷🏻🤷🏻🤷🏻🤷🏻
"You are without a doubt the WORST ability Yu-gi-oh has ever heard of!"
Toons: "But you have heard of me."
"Heard"
But he forgets about Gemini
@@derrickmclain4498 There has been playable Gemini strategies.
@@MagiRemmie only for like 1 format, and it was neos alius in early 5Ds era, along with 1900+ atk beat sticks. Nobody actually used thier gemini effects either
@@undeadinside3571 bruh, do you not keep up with edison format? Gemini is a tier threat in that format.
I believe in Rata’s theory that toon is a monster ability rather than just an archetype name because they needed to save ink not having to print quotation marks around it every time
Similar theory but they had no idea on how to create an archetype so just made Toon some general ability
@@johnnyjohnson4265 Most "abilities" definitely are archetype before they were a thing. There is almost nothing intrinsic to them at all, what they do is already dependant on the effect text (like any card!) and if they wanted, they could make some cards with these abilities that no longer worked their trademarked ways.
@@zephshoirI think they should also get rid of the Ability text and stuff that in the rule book, provided they actually have a consistent ability effect (Toons are too all over the place unlike the others).
The freed up space mean they can actually print more of these ability cards that have actual good effects.
I mean archtype in general is loose since it’s just the concept of them having a certain name
@@TaLeng2023If I remember correctly I've heard the head of development for YGO has said the purposefully are against using keywords in the way games like MtG do. The idea is they want people to be able to play the game without having to look up new card effects mid-combat, so everything is explained on the cards themselves as much as possible
Toons desperately need a full revamp with errata's for older cards to make the Toon ability consistent and new modern support. Like I'm all for Toon versions of every series' protagonist and rival (Stardust Toon Dragon, Red Toon Dragon Archfiend, Elemental TOON Neos, etc.).
Access Toon Talker
@@Raziel_HHLXD ip toon masquerana and toon little knight
The issue is that if you only go with Ace monsters, you get the Malefic issue where you don't have a real deck and just a series of splashable bosses.
You're right that Toons need a full revamp. I'd actually argue they should lean into the anime gimmick of converting an opponent's monsters, actually. Would it be obnoxious? Yes. Would it play havoc with the meta and make people rethink their game plan? Also yes.
@clayxros576 card design wise so otk decks still exist back in those days disruption didn't exist to the point where it was obnoxious, (shoutout to the boy!) HTs I mean so now a days I say, it would be cool if the deck was snatch steal.dek so you play with your opponents monsters comic hand is probably the best card they have.
Screw more boss monsters. Toons have enough of those. Where are Toon Ash Blossom, Toon Maxx C, Toon Tour Guide, Toon Linkuriboh, Toon Sky Striker Raye, or Toon Glow Up Bulb?
What toons need is more shit that actually allows them to get the high level Toons on the field easier. Any just turn the Toon Ability into an inherent effect like Flip Effects instead of something that has to be printed on every card. That way if they feel like updating it for the sixth time, they can just change the ruling instead of each individual card.
The Toon Chaos support was pretty cool but I'd love to see them experiment with toon monsters outside of DM like they did for a bit with Cyber Dragon and Ancient Gear Golem
Tbf, outside of Cyber Dragon from Zane and Harpie Lady from Mai, all of the Toon monsters are just Toon-ified versions of monsters from duelists Pegasus has faced.
There are still a decent amount of monster that can be turned into toons. Toon Relinquished would be cool but maybe any monster from duelist kingdome would also be great.
Like pumpking, the legendary fisherman, rex ace monster, ultimate great moth/insect queen. Etc
Let’s get toon Stardust, Toon Utopia shit like that
I think toon should get some extra deck monsters. I’d love to see toon flame wingman or toon neos
@@josephnavarro2168 toon blue eyes ultimate dragon. Thousand dragon.
Toons are basically just an archetype, before Konami knew how to make archetypes. It really doesn't need to be an ability anymore.
I think it’s too late for them to be an archetype
Toons have archetype seach cards like contents so yea their a archetype always have been
Archetypes have been apart of the series since the first manga arc in yugioh duelist
Mai infamously ran a harpie deck even in duelist kingdom
Alot of characters just played type focused decks
Such as ryuzaki using dinosaurs
Haga using insects
Keith using machines and so on
@@DragonBallsolosyourversebut that's not introduced in the actual game at that point
archetypes are defined by card effects mentioning it, not just "a theme of cards" can be called as an archetype.
Toon as an archetype is way later then it's an ability, early toon cards can only search themselves by their ability
Your being pedanic
The idea of certain deck themes is nothing new to gx or 5ds
When all of a monsters effects are restrictions you know it's bad. "Blue-eyes' most supreme form," my ass
Even if they errata'd them and removed all the restrictions they have they would still be bad
I mean it kinda is on the sense it can always attack directly since most players won't run toon decks. Normal blue eyes can't do that usually.
I think the reason toons are so bad because they were designed to be based on Magic the Gathering. With Toon World being a land and they all have summoning sickness and can't attack the turn they are summoned. Toons are a cool idea but I think they were meant to be bad on purpose unlike the manga/anime versions.
That also explains the direct attacking mechanic, since MTG has monsters attack players and the defending player then gets to declare blockers.
I didn't know that. Makes sense since Yu-Gi-Oh started as a homage to Magic.
I think Gemini is the worst, Toons problem is that Konami isn't printing any support to them !
The issue is, someone found a way to make Gemini playable in Edison. And elsewise Hero Beat even has historic tops (despite just playing Alius...)
Il Blud, Gigaplant, and the Edison innovation that turns pure Geminis into a solid contender. That's more than Toons.
Geminis have been tier 1 in Hero Beat meta, and around the same time, Gigaplant was also a really powerful card. That's significantly better than anything Toons have ever done in history. Table of content being in Sky Strikers got dropped pretty quick the moment they got more spell cards, and people realized the 3 spells in gy weren't as important as other forms of removal
Toons have the same problem as any "anime archetype" in that the support that they're printing relies too heavily on unplayable oldschool cards. People who play Toons obviously do it because they're nostalgic for the anime and those old cards. So when Konami prints Toon support it's usually for fanservice reasons that try to elevate those bad cards instead of making Toon an actual viable strategy.
Gemini is only slightly better. Since they had better support and a couple of actual good cards. Toons need so much just to play them. Toons would work in MTG but not yugioh.
Toons will forever remind me of watching the dubbed anime on Saturday mornings and thinking, "that's so stupid!" when Pegasus was like, "I got the castle and they're god mode now."
Tht shit had me mad too😂
Toons are funny because for all intents and purposes, they shouldn’t even *be* an ability, since pretty much all of them have “Toon” in their name anyway. But I guess Konami didn’t feel like giving Manga Ryu-Ran a clause that made it a “Toon” monster, probably because pre-PSCT would fill the card with too much text, so they just… made it an ability.
Also to all the people saying Gemini is worse aren’t wrong exactly, but given an extensive history of both it and Toons and you realize Gemini had a lot more competitive relevance (Gigaplant, Neos Alius).
If Konami can print Snake-Eyes they can print playable Toons.
I kinda hope to one day see someone play a toon deck and win a tournament mainly because I want to see a video of after of someone explaining every single rule and way the cards interacted due to toons being wack
It's very funny, I don't think there's a deck that is simultaneously as consistent as Toons with it's 5 search spells, but has one of the lowest ceilings of any deck. It maybe ends on 1 omni and a few assholes that are annoying to out thanks to Kingdom. It's better going second but to be frank, the boardbreakers and other non-engine are doing a lot of the heavy lifting
Drytron or some other ritual deck probably has the most searchers but toon for all its search spells still somehow manages to be very inconsistent at resolving toon dark magician
@@jimtsap04 I’ve found this too, still a very fun deck to play.
Completely agree. I end up playing a toon burn deck most of the time. Lava Golems, Timelords, and Shadow Toon make up like 90% of my games.
I have a Toon Blue Eyes that I pulled from a pack as a kid. It carried me through Dark Duel Stories since toons in that game were just their normal counterpart but a different name.
How about some Toon monsters that aren't necessarily cartoon versions of other monsters, but just support the archetype. Imagine retreads of cards like Dark Rabbit, Parrot Dragon, and Toon Alligator.
Like Illusions, I agree
I wanna see toon versions of traps n spells. Like toon dark hole
@shadowoodslasher but there's no monster depicted in the artwork. If it was a card like Tribute to the Doomed, you could change the mummies in the art to look more cartoonish , and you could call it "Tribute to the Toon!"
The cheese deck in Duel Links resulted in one of the silliest Worlds ever when the Grand Finals was literally a Toon Mirror match where the other guy kept bricking while his opponent would get the OTK.
You’d be surprised how decent Toons fair in master duel especially, few people are prepared for just how annoying Toons can truly be if allowed a second to get going
As a toon player, I can agree. You have to have something to support them instead of pure toons. People tend to forget that.
@@usagifangI have a pure toon deck that I run for memes, but its surprisingly effective if your opponent isn't ready for it. Its also halarious to watch "Meta" seeking players try to shut it down on a turn 1, bc they typically just shut down the first search and never bother to read the cards
I'm happy to see other master duel toon deck players :) I was worried I was the only one
@@Kessogsasaina it’s honestly great and niche enough a lot of people aren’t ready for the gimmicks like comic hand, BLS, and toon bookmark protecting Kingdom it’s not quite a meta killer but Toons got hands if the meta ain’t ready 😂
@@Kessogsasaina Toons are amazing. Thank Pegasus for it. XD
as a toon player, its really annoying because they could easily fix it, like just make toons a flood deck that has a lot of negates for removals. none of the cards have to be heavy hitters since they can bypass monsters and the cheese of negates is in theme. Plus there's a bunch of "not-really" toon toon cards that could be remade to work within the current group. It's annoying that my fav archtype has been mishandled since day one.
Yet they made whole ass archetypes for Thunder Dragon, Hungry Burger, and Gate Guardian
Nah fam. Toons are goated
Toons are a fairly consistent rogue deck in Duel Links thanks to Toonvitation. They're carried HARD by that skill, but they do tend to put in work ever since that skill came out.
*Gemini has entered the chat*
*Gigaplant and Il Blud have left the room*
Someone didn’t watch the video
@@Pikapuff30 oh ye my brain completely sorted them out because I didn't even know those monsters existed, also I thought they only made like 1 archetype and 5 individual gemini monsters before deciding that they were a bad idea.
Gemini had hero beat, gigavise, il blud in zombie strategies, now gemini as a full-blown deck is very popular in Edison as well. It might not make the cut for modern standards, but it saw a lot of competitive success in the past.
Which video? Cmiiw, but newest gemini was cataclysm field spell, and tho, that still not good. I think
@@swisschese1323 Does Hero Beat really count? that sounds more like "Gemini saw play in form of neos allius not because what it does, but because what it is" and gemini spark.
at least toons, the occasional times you see them in ladder in master duel are played for what they do
Toons were powerful in the anime because you couldn't attack directly in duelist Kingdom and since they had so many crazy abilities that we have yet to get really like they can't be targeted for a attacks that combined with the whole can't attack directly means their borderline invincible
That and the complete non-existence of backrow removal, their gimmick was surprisingly simple, can't be destroyed in battle with monsters of the same atk and you can't attack them when they hide in Toon World and it was that car that gave them their powers.
Elemental HERO Neos Alius carried the whole gemini ability on his back back in edison. Heroes being meta means it was actually a good card at some point unlike toons even though toons is 100% more playable at the moment.
Best way to buff toons is to have them be able to force themselves to the graveyard and make them have a whacky mechanic where they can dodge targeting, making them slippery matching their cartoon theme.
I hope they succeed in fixing it, maybe retrain Toon world to actually be useful as an enabler, some toon tuners
It'd make more sense for them to be ritual of fusion enablers tho
I see the phni and lede yubel support i feel like toons could use a bit of the same. Support that makes them into a cohesive strategy but not leaving its anime game plan behind
Damn it’s a real shame that Konami banned all the tuner monsters
"Toons are without-"
I'm gonna stop you right there, because that pretty much sums them up perfectly.
Isn’t it also fan theory that Toon DMG was missing a toon restriction cuz they couldn’t fit it onto the card?
I refuse to believe that while endymion exists with its wall of text
@@metalmario1231 Endymion’s text is fine? Unless you mean the card from years way after Toon DMG when they could alter font size
They should just outright get rid of the Ability text and place it in the rulebook (They might have to make sure the ability text is consistent tho). Then it'll be just like flip monster.
Speaking of flip monsters, am I the only one who want them to have the effect to flip themselves down, kinda like Subterrors?
Toon world in the show literally stole the opponent's cards and turned them into toons. Those toons could then retreat to toon world to be invincible. I remember the utter disappointment i felt when i saw the toon cards irl. They are literally just more expensive, way less useful versions of their regular counterparts.
The new support does all that though.
Toon Kingdom makes them untargetable and can’t be destroyed by battle or card effects.
Toon comic hand let’s you steal your opponents monster and turn it into a toon.
@@legalam kid I'm talking about the original release, as in, when they first became cards in the US, about a month after the first airing of the duel against Pegasus.
@@legalamisn't Too Kingdom's cost a bit too high? I play DL where max deck size for Speed Duels is 30.
Also same disappointment when I found out Vijam hide in the S/T zone instead of being banished.
lmao the duel links flash in the pan. I loved it for a solid week where toons were actually good
See the problem is toons was the first attempt at an archetype so rather instead of simply giving them all the name toon which happened anyway they made toon the ability this doesn't happen in future archetypes
What about LV ?
It says a lot about LV that even its best representatives from Anime decks (Armed Dragon and Silent Magician / Swordsman) BOTH got full revamps over trying to support that ill fated mechanic.
LV is not an "ability". As explained in the short, "ability" refers to the extra subtype that monsters can have, like Gemini, Flip, and Toon.
@@JamesNintendoTurdomg i forgot about LV cards
Toon Cannon Soldier being a staple in Goat Format Mill Combo because of TTC is too funny
*"Flip effects has entered the chat"*
*"Gemini and Union sweating nervously"*
I guess it makes the disparity in power between Pegasus' toon cards and his relinquish cards more believable. lol
Back in like 2019, I loved playing striker with 3 ttc and 1 toon cydra with a megafleet in the extra to put my opponent’s emz
When you're worse than Gemini, you know you're bad...
I'd say toon is better than Gemini
@@derrickmclain4498 Gemini cards have actually seen competitive play. Toons haven't
@@derrickmclain4498Gemini is actually a really good Deck in Edison now. If they go of, most decks just can't beat them
@@derrickmclain4498 Geminis have topped.
What? Wtf? When?
Honestly, if Toons were made today, they might have been designed as an archetype that either replaces a monster with its toon counterpart from the Extra Deck (it would be a fusion monster) or be given a Toon counter with all of the rulings attached to that counter.
So, kinda like Malefics?
Abilities are so difficult to create decks b/c they have general effects that take up so much room unlike tuners. Toon's effect is just existing
Toons need a Tuner monster sp we can have a Tooner Monster.
Like my Custom card:
Toon Junk Synchron
DARK / Level 3
Warrior / Toon / Tuner.
When this card is normal summoned, target 1 toon monster in your graveyard and special summon it. Its level is changed to 2 and cannot be used as xyz material.
With this we can summon possibly a Toon Junk Warrior!
(PLZ KONAMI LET ME GIVE YOU IDEAS)
Pegasus wasn't kidding in that duel with Kaiba in the first movie when he summoned blue eyes toon dragon:
"Don't worry, I assure you he's quite docile!"
I think the issue is that toons, with the way their effects worked were just too naturally broken without the limits... but the limits made them suck....
Pegasus is literally the first Yu gi oh character that can print card
In yu gi oh gx tag force 2 for the psp, in the underground class minigame, the go-to strategy is to create a deck that's nothing but small burn effects, and a way to destroy opposing des wombat. In this game mode, toon cannon soldier is a welcome addition, although it for sure is just you getting to have extra copies of cannon soldier
As a kid i was so psyched when toons were first released. Nothing like having a deck with toon mermaid, toon summoned skull, toon blue eyes, and manga ryu ran
One way to fix Yugioh: Monsters set face-down in defense position cannot be removed from the field by any card unless its condition(s) for activation require a set card as a target.
The toon cards should've worked like the anime - they would be alternate artworks of the cards they're based on, and Toon World would give all your monsters specific abilities. Chiefly, the ability to dodge all attacks unless targeted by other Toon monsters - Toons can only attack Toons (unless specifically affected by cards that prevent a monster from attacking or switching position, like how shadow chain was able to bind Toon Blue Eyes), but you can either receive direct attack damage or deliver it, as a counter balance.
You know, better card design for toons would be having the universal toon abilities on toon world that way if Konami wanted individual abilities, they could have the space on the toon monster(s) themselves
Indeed. Or just get rid of the Ability text, put it in the rulebook meaning it's required knowledge. Flips don't have to say "When this face down card is flipped face up, do this...". No, it just have the effect directly. If they can free space for card text then they might be able to design better Ability cards.
I thought the internet had collectively decided to move past ending shorts in such a way that they looped around to the start to increase watch time.
Toons are some of my favourite cards in yugioh so much so I always have a toon deck with me. Would love to see toon specific xyz, link and syncros in the future!!
Toons forever have a place in my heart.
I still love my toon deck. Its so satisfying to interrupt an opponents 10mins of summoning with niberu only to yoink it back with comic hand and then attack twice with toon roll back
If you can keep Toon Kingdom on the field, Toons can actually be a bit of a menace. The only thing that'll stop them from reaching over and smacking you in the face are effects that both don't target and don't destroy. The setup is the painful part though. On top of that, recovery is non-existant in this deck.
And the only protection Toon Kingdom gets are:
- Toon Bookmark (in the GY; once per turn, Bookmark can be banished to stop Kingdom from being destroyed) and
- Toon Terror (a searchable omni-negate which is nice, however it is a trap which makes it a bit slow)
I love that you chose to use Neos Alius as the Gemini monster snd showed off wingman too, love them heroes!
Pegasus's in Duelists of the Roses for PS2 were no joke though. Manga Ryu Ran and Toon Summoned Skull were menaces on Toon terrain.
Toons could definitely get a pretty interesting revamp if they started printing Toon versions of monsters that came out after the original series. (Besides Cyber Dragon and Ancient Gear Golem, those two are like the 2 exceptions to this)
Like a few Resonator or Synchron toons that make Synchro monsters summoned with them count as toons. Or maybe start making extra deck toon monsters.
If you want to make things silly, have a few toon fusions that are just blatently a couple of the preexisting toon monsters forced into bad costumes. Say something like "Toon Grey Dragon of Blue-Eyes and Red-Eyes". It literally shows the unhappy Toon Blue-Eyes and Toon Red-Eyes super glued to each other's side and both getting spray painted grey by several of the more minor toons. Maybe a "Toon Harpie Dragon" that is just showing a very confused Manga Ryu-Ran having a Toon Harpie Lady riding on its back and giving orders.
Maybe a few synchro toons could be summoned without a tuner if you use a toon monster. (Making them "Tooners" if you'll excuse the subtle pun). Maybe a Toon Stardust Dragon or the like that could help you recover cards banished by Toon Kingdom?
Perhaps a couple Pendulum monsters that count as Toonworld in the Pendulum scales.
Maybe a "Toon Kaiba Boys" monster that just shows chibi versions of Kaiba and Mokuba in Kaibaman outfits.
at least toon have the capability of "attack directly" next turn aka an actual threat, if they actually survive to see the said next turn they are pretty dang good.
Toon Kingdom can protect toons. Toon Bookmark in the graveyard protects toon Kingdom.
Here's something funny: I've managed to collect every Toon card currently available in English.
The best case scenario for toons is going third summoning on turn 2 toons ready to otk without interruptions. Using toon mask and toon page flip to end phase summon big beaters that will hopefully have the field spell still on board. That's a tall order to ask for. I still love toons though. The art and the concept still intrigued me.
I'll be honest, it would be pretty cool to see a Toon archetype that's not "Toon".
I thought Gemini was the worst Ability (the only exception being "Gemini Spark" Deck, featuring Neos Alius as its boss monster not because for what it does , but because for what it is).
Alongside Gigaplant and Il Blud
Toons at least are semi-playable in modern day, occasionally leeting you cheese wins in Master duel and duel links
The problem is there's no real coherent "thing" for toons, like lets assume they errata old cards so they all work off the most recent toon rules, all you get is a archetype specific search and some mid sized beat sticks that are slightly stickier than average.
If i was tasked with making toons viable theres two major forms of support id create, first is a series of Continuous spells and equip spells to give toons special effects (for example, an equip spell "Ten Ton Toon Hammer" which does two things when equipped, first would be it counts as toon world for whatever its equipped to (so it at least survives the loss of toon world once) and second is it does piercing damage on attack. Another example would be "Toon ink fountain" which is a continuous spell that lets you send a toon from the field once per turn to add a toon spell from grave to hand.
The second would be a small set of Link monster support, mainly a rank 1 "living inkdrop" that functions as a mini toonworld (so for example if you have it on board you can sacrifice summon Toon BLS and use its effect without the Field spell) and a 4/5 link boss monster, (id make it a toon pegasus visually) and his whole deal would be making non toons into toon monsters so they can use the new (in my fix) toon equipment spells
They easily could have made them at least useable.
Just add another toon town (or world I can’t remember) spell card that makes it so you don’t have to pay life points to attack.
Then another that lets them attack on the same turn they are summoned.
And another that lets you search for any toon world spell card.
Basically your entire spell zone would be the toon world book spread out.
Then actually add enough toon monsters for a deck instead of the, what? Six we have?
My brother liked Cyber Dragons.
I offered him, "Toon Cyber Dragon?"
He was like, that could work. Now he's got "4" Cyber Dragons.
In Duel links the toon deck could actually be playable and was a reasonably successful OTK with toon cyber dragon, toon DMG and toon rollback. Add in relinquished support as a back up you can fuck with it
Personally I'd love to see a Pegasus Structure deck that just focuses on a ton of new modernized Toons without all the restrictions. Maybe even make them illusions for some innate protection when you lack Toon Kingdom. Plus Illusion is already focused on being yugi boomer bait so Toon cards fit right in.
I don't think they could add enough to make the deck more than rogue at best, but giving them a big modern foundation to work off of would be a step in the right direction.
I remember a guy at locals playing a ton deck and had to explain to his opponent the different classifications of toons just so they both knew how they worked.
Pegasus also cheated by reading minds, made a special set of cards no one knew about, and if you found out via dueling him, he’d take your soul before you could ever rematch him.
I love toons cards they’re also fun to play with red eyes toon dragon and the red eyes egg card but it’s very heavily reliant on toon world spell and felid card but they’re not alot of extra cards can help it
toons are like a proto-archetype
God i reallt want more toon support. I absolutely love the toon archetype and my duel links toon deck to this day is one of my absolute favorites to bust out on the ladder.
3 books 1 toon cyber was meta when I quit ygo. When you could only special to the extra monster zone and that one cimeratech fusion monster was a decent option. Good old times 😅
And there are people who think Toons would be broken if you took off the summoning sickness.
WE already have two toons without summoning sickness
That’s a weird way to say “Gemini.”
I'm pretty sure toons showed up at the first duel links worlds
Homie really forgot about Geminis
As a Yugi Boomer fresh on Master Duel Toons was one of the first archetypes i tried to build competitively I deeply regret that decision.
Comic Hand is such newbie bait
Toons are my absolute favorite yugioh archetype. Only really playable in Speed Duels with skills though ❤
Man I remember bein in high school in 2013 my buddy got his toon deck stolen out of his backpack, I remember he got instantly better now that the tools weren't holding him back...
Toon strategy feels like it suppose to be snatching opponent's monster(s) and replaces it with a Toon version ala Mask Change but Konami seems clueless during that time......
Imagine coming up with a deck that could be destroyed just by your player getting rid of one magic card like with de-spell. Not to mention your monsters can't attack immediately & you have to give up life points to attack. Yes, you can attack your opponent directly but what good is that when they can attack too or counter your attacks. Also to use a toon deck u might need to run 3 copies of 2 cards just so u can have a chance to summon monsters on your field
To be fair, Toons were an archetype before archetypes were even really thing. A prototype, essentially, for what would come years later
A classic case of not reading what the card does to understand its effects almost every toon card needs toon world and can attack your opponent directly if they don’t have toon world if toon world or its variations like toon kingdom is not on the field toon monsters cannot exist on the field because they need toon world toons are simply short for cartoon it’s the same monster card but as a cartoon that cannot be destroyed by normal battle it simply adds that they need toon world on the field to exist and attack directly every other effect is taken from the original card.
Bros never heard of the Toon Kindom card 🗿
Pegasus in the more serious duels just scraps the Tunes for Thousand Eyes Restrict, and I don't need to tell you how big that card was.
To fix toons, get rid of mandatory 'Toon World' to play them. Too much easy backrow destruction. Have 'Toon World' do more and better effect. Like a 'Toon World' that says "toons monsters you control cannot be targeted by opponent effects" and toons dont need 'Toon World' on the field to play them but gain their effects if its on the field. This wouldn't make a toon deck but would make a lot more toons playable. Examples: toons blues eyes can go into regular blue eyes theme deck and same as dark magician. So theyre basically Gemini but instead of using normal summon, you need Toon World to get their effect.
I mean the same should be said about Gemini as being worse flip monster. here a monster that needs to be face up to have its effect you must waste a turn to re-normal summon it meaning so to get any real value out of them where to SS some one and then normal them to turn on their effects in one turn mean while they were like how about a spell that lets you normal summon twice a turn their no problem with this. . . then synchro summon happen.
I got to play with a Toon deck on Master duel. It's a pretty fast deck, but it's kinda pass/fail. Either you get your draw and are able to sweep, or they get the draw needed to counter your first turn setup, and you're SOL. Very swingy, but definitely a usable deck archetype.
You know it’s bad when they have cards that would be broken in other archetypes, like one that steals your opponent’s monster and turns it toon and another that copies any card in your opponent’s graveyard for free and it still didn’t make them viable.
I feel like another major issue with Toon monsters is every toon requires so much generic rules text on every monster that its often impossible to have them do anything else. So mu h card real estate is taken up with requirements and rules clarity.
I play a straight toon deck and I can beat most of the meta. Toon kingdom really allows for a dragged out bare knuckles brawl
Who needs toons when we can goon
I enjoy my Toon Deck. I'm not topping locals or anything but I've had some pretty consistent wins.
Toon Kashtira and Toon Horus is a fun as heck deck.
Toon is an archetype that was made before they knew how to make archetypes so it was made into an ability
All they gotta do to fix TOON is take away the “can’t attack the same turn the card was summoned” just reprint and take that text off along with adding some TOON fusion monsters.
It’s seriously that easy 🤷🏻🤷🏻🤷🏻🤷🏻
Not really tho. I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure a Toon deck could easily beat a Chemieritter deck (as a representative of Gemini monsters)
Toon Blue-Eyes is playable in Edison for Tempest FTK. I've summoned him a few times tbh
As a person currently trying to make Gemini work in master duel... i have to disagree lol