- Remjet particles are just charcoal they wont react or affect in any way the developer. Just use a coffe filter if you want a "clear" developer - You can remove the remjet or just leave it at the very end with no effect on the results - You can remove de remjet layer just by rubbing with your fingers at the end of the wet proces, just before the last wash - ECN2 and C41 are almost the same process with the same ingredients, the only difference is the developing agents, CD4 for C41 and CD3 for ECN2. - You can develop C41 in ECN2 chems, giving that low constrast and finner grain to regular C41 emulstions. Bye ;)
Hello, rubbing with your fingers really can remove all remjet?because i develop every time Vision 3 after scan ,the film will leave a little charcoal,even before stabilize i use Sponge to rubbing.Many thanks.
Thanks for making this! I ordered this kit as soon as it was available but I was surprised that Cinestill didn't offer very much info about how it handled the remjet, presumably because they are focusing on using it to develop their own films.
Shout out to Eric at Conspiracy of Carts -- he also sells an ECN kit in his Etsy store that is really reasonably priced - plus you'd be supporting a really cool photographer! I've ordered his kit before to keep as a spare when I don't want to get down and dirty mixing up my own -- which is what I typically do from the base ingredients
I'm definitely going to give this kit a try! I currently have the QWD ECN2 kit and interested in comparing the results. Maybe the Cinestill kit is a good balance of ease of use, price and final look. Great tip on removing the remjet first.
Hi Ribs! just wanted to share that the last two ECN-2 develop sessions I held two make up sponges to each side of the film and dragged it down the film at the end like a squeegee .. this pulled of whatever remjet was left at the end of the process and sucks it into the sponge. I've also used 91% IPA with a make up sponge if I do notice any residual remjet on the light table before scanning and a very light pass over the film will clear up anything that got missed. I love the ECN 'look' and have even started to process my C41 color film in it!
CineStill actually doesn’t get rid of the rem-jet anymore. They get the raw master roll from Kodak without the rem-jet applied. The CineStill film operation is actually based in Rochester New York now.
Like its C-41 kit, its ECN-2 labelled chemistry kit is not a true ECN-2 process, omitting chemistry steps and combining others. It's one thing to say that ECN-2 compatible films can be processed in it and yield usable results. It's something different to say that it is going to yield the quality results of a full ECN-2 processing. (Without regard to the remjet issue.) In the case of the CS modified films or real Vision 3 film, there is little to no consumer access to the full ECN-2 processing, so this CS kit becomes something of a "better than nothing or C-41" option. For those few out there who compound their own B&W chemistry, thus have a chemical scale,a few breakers, and know have to use them, the formulas for ECN-2 are "old school". Kodak has them on line, the components are neither numerous nor particularly expensive, so it is well within your reach to just make up your own chemistry (fresh) when needed, for a quite small faction of the kit cost. You also would have the steps and chemistry CS omits.
fair point. i def assume that there will be differences between the "real" ecn2 process and an at home process. i rather not dabble on my own since it will be alot of work and require additional storage. i like the ease of buy a kit, even if it isn't exactly the "real" thing
Can you do a comparison of the cs2 vs enc-2? Helpful video man How many times can you reuse the cs2? For how many rolls? The next time you shoot a raw motion picture film, please run us through ur prebatch cleanse and then the cs2 batch and show us the image results !
I decided to use the remjet removal chems from Freestyle with this kit, but my test shoot got delayed. Hoping to have that tomorrow. :) Looking forward to seeing more results from your work!
Where are you getting the 120 vision 3? I got a few badly setup 120 rolls from HK for $30 a roll. Their usefulness was mixed. Basically I suspect this is 70mm cinima film cut to 120?
hey thanks for the video. Looking forward to your next comparisons.. As for comparing, I find it's always difficult to find properly controlled comparisons and I kind of never find the comparison "pair" I'm looking for... Personnally, I'd like to see a super structured comparison - same camera, same lens, same metering (a non challenging scene for exposure) & same subject : -Vision 3 (with prewash) + Cs2 -Vision 3 + ECN2 (Bellini or QWD) -VIsion 3 + C41 (three baths dev, bleach, fix) -Cinestill + C41 -Cinestill + ECN2 Well, a nice Vision 3 ECN2 vs CS2 would be super interesting to start with as a big appeal of the Vision 3 is "cost control" if one can bulk load it and I'd like to avoid the ECN2 process at home if I can...
Hello, rubbing with your fingers really can remove all remjet?because i develop every time Vision 3 after scan ,the film will leave a little charcoal,even before stabilize i use Sponge to rubbing.Many thanks
Washing soda is the right stuff, but sodium bicarbonate isn't. Washing soda is sodium carbonate (notice, no "bi-" involved). Not quite the same, sodium carbonate is a little more alkaline than sodium bicarbonate, and as a result, does a much better job softening the remjet's adhesive and freeing the carbon (the actual black in remjet) from the film. Technically, sodium carbonate is Na2CO3, which sodium bicarbonate is NaHC03 -- hydrogen replacing one of the sodium ions.
I don’t see the reason for CS2 chemistry, unless you want really flat images with low contrast. C-41 does an excellent job with any color including motion picture film. Contrast is easily fixed in post. Remjet is removed with baking soda. On the side note, in my experiments with vision 250d film I always had to overexpose by at least one stop to get the images I wanted. Tungsten is probably more so. I’ve also cross processed vision film in b&w chemistry to get a nice black and white negative. Vision films are finicky and frankly not worth the effort with remjet and fuss with special chemistry
interesting. ive always exposed at box speed and i get great results (when i actually pay attention to proper exposure) i did cross process this film once with c41 and didn't like it per se. in the end, if the film is designed for ecn2 processing, then thats a good enough reason for using the CS2 kit.
@@ribsy Agreed. And also, while using Cinestill 800T at box speed and with C41, the results are noticeably low res and grainy. It almost feels like it defeats the purpose of cinema formulations if you don't have some kind of ECN or ECN equivalent process, you easily wind up with something noticeably inferior to Portra 400.
Are you sure that you underexposed the shots or were the think negs a result of you not removing the rem-yet in advance? Also you should not really meter for shooting negative film at night except for when you’re doing long exposures. Just do the longest time you can do handheld and shoot wide open.
i definitely underexposed the shots. the remjet should have no impact on the that aspect of the images. i did precisely your advice and it didn't work lol - f2.8 and 1/30th. i got extremely noisy images from the underexposure.
Just pre-bath with water and baking soda... Cinestill is overkill to your wallet, it's designed to make you keep buying from them because developer is ruined quicker with their process.
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- Remjet particles are just charcoal they wont react or affect in any way the developer. Just use a coffe filter if you want a "clear" developer
- You can remove the remjet or just leave it at the very end with no effect on the results
- You can remove de remjet layer just by rubbing with your fingers at the end of the wet proces, just before the last wash
- ECN2 and C41 are almost the same process with the same ingredients, the only difference is the developing agents, CD4 for C41 and CD3 for ECN2.
- You can develop C41 in ECN2 chems, giving that low constrast and finner grain to regular C41 emulstions.
Bye ;)
thanks for the info. many of the details in my video agree with you 😊
Hello, rubbing with your fingers really can remove all remjet?because i develop every time Vision 3 after scan ,the film will leave a little charcoal,even before stabilize i use Sponge to rubbing.Many thanks.
Thanks for making this! I ordered this kit as soon as it was available but I was surprised that Cinestill didn't offer very much info about how it handled the remjet, presumably because they are focusing on using it to develop their own films.
Shout out to Eric at Conspiracy of Carts -- he also sells an ECN kit in his Etsy store that is really reasonably priced - plus you'd be supporting a really cool photographer! I've ordered his kit before to keep as a spare when I don't want to get down and dirty mixing up my own -- which is what I typically do from the base ingredients
yea its good to see and experiment with. def give it a shot
i think i've actually use this before! i once bought a super random kit from etsy when my developer went bad
I'm definitely going to give this kit a try! I currently have the QWD ECN2 kit and interested in comparing the results. Maybe the Cinestill kit is a good balance of ease of use, price and final look. Great tip on removing the remjet first.
yea its nice to have options. that's kinda the theme nowadays. more options is better
Hi Ribs! just wanted to share that the last two ECN-2 develop sessions I held two make up sponges to each side of the film and dragged it down the film at the end like a squeegee .. this pulled of whatever remjet was left at the end of the process and sucks it into the sponge. I've also used 91% IPA with a make up sponge if I do notice any residual remjet on the light table before scanning and a very light pass over the film will clear up anything that got missed. I love the ECN 'look' and have even started to process my C41 color film in it!
Oh great point! I’ve used a couple of different sponge type things and it usually does the trick. I kind of find the extra effort annoying
I'd be careful with this. I've messed up the emulsion side trying this before
@@RJMPictures I do it really, really gently. I feel it's less of a risk than using my hands to do it
@@ribsy Make up sponges are super fine and gentle, not porus like the one you use to wash your car!
CineStill actually doesn’t get rid of the rem-jet anymore. They get the raw master roll from Kodak without the rem-jet applied. The CineStill film operation is actually based in Rochester New York now.
I've actually wondered about exactly this. It just makes more sense this way
@@RJMPictures They’ve talked about that on a Podcast. They’ve been working together with Eastman Kodak for while now.
yea makes sense. i didn't know this - good for them!
yup! we learn new things 😊
Like its C-41 kit, its ECN-2 labelled chemistry kit is not a true ECN-2 process, omitting chemistry steps and combining others. It's one thing to say that ECN-2 compatible films can be processed in it and yield usable results. It's something different to say that it is going to yield the quality results of a full ECN-2 processing. (Without regard to the remjet issue.) In the case of the CS modified films or real Vision 3 film, there is little to no consumer access to the full ECN-2 processing, so this CS kit becomes something of a "better than nothing or C-41" option. For those few out there who compound their own B&W chemistry, thus have a chemical scale,a few breakers, and know have to use them, the formulas for ECN-2 are "old school". Kodak has them on line, the components are neither numerous nor particularly expensive, so it is well within your reach to just make up your own chemistry (fresh) when needed, for a quite small faction of the kit cost. You also would have the steps and chemistry CS omits.
fair point. i def assume that there will be differences between the "real" ecn2 process and an at home process. i rather not dabble on my own since it will be alot of work and require additional storage. i like the ease of buy a kit, even if it isn't exactly the "real" thing
Thank you for sharing! I know you'll make this video the moment I saw the Cinestill cs2 release!
haha yes! i'm on it 💪🏽 another video coming soon
I usually use Sodium Carbonate (washing soda) as a prebath and then develop in C-41, remove excess remjet before stabilizing.
yea that works!
Can you do a comparison of the cs2 vs enc-2?
Helpful video man
How many times can you reuse the cs2? For how many rolls?
The next time you shoot a raw motion picture film, please run us through ur prebatch cleanse and then the cs2 batch and show us the image results !
just did! check out my newest video
Your channel is amazing man, a real gem. So much to learn about film. 😅
thanks for watching!
I decided to use the remjet removal chems from Freestyle with this kit, but my test shoot got delayed. Hoping to have that tomorrow. :) Looking forward to seeing more results from your work!
yea same! really curious to see how this affects the cinestill product
Can't wait to see the part 2. I'm about to get some CS2
yea! ill be making that video this coming week 😊
@@ribsy awesome! can't wait brother
Where are you getting the 120 vision 3? I got a few badly setup 120 rolls from HK for $30 a roll. Their usefulness was mixed. Basically I suspect this is 70mm cinima film cut to 120?
I’ve used some on eBay
hey thanks for the video.
Looking forward to your next comparisons..
As for comparing, I find it's always difficult to find properly controlled comparisons and I kind of never find the comparison "pair" I'm looking for...
Personnally, I'd like to see a super structured comparison - same camera, same lens, same metering (a non challenging scene for exposure) & same subject :
-Vision 3 (with prewash) + Cs2
-Vision 3 + ECN2 (Bellini or QWD)
-VIsion 3 + C41 (three baths dev, bleach, fix)
-Cinestill + C41
-Cinestill + ECN2
Well, a nice Vision 3 ECN2 vs CS2 would be super interesting to start with as a big appeal of the Vision 3 is "cost control" if one can bulk load it and I'd like to avoid the ECN2 process at home if I can...
thanks for watching. i don't like structure ... not my style 😊
Hey Ribsy, have you continued using this product over time? Roughly how many rolls of vision 3 can you develop from one kit
I don’t remember. Maybe 12
can I use Bf2 Blix from a cs41 kit with the cn2 developer?
No clue 😅
Can I develop Kodak Gold 200 in ecn2 process??
yes. just know that isn't the process it was designed for, especially for getting negatives good for darkroom printing
Hello, rubbing with your fingers really can remove all remjet?because i develop every time Vision 3 after scan ,the film will leave a little charcoal,even before stabilize i use Sponge to rubbing.Many thanks
Rubbing after doing the pre soak
@@ribsy Thanks
Hahah you went for it without metering. Looks moody I guess. This definitely makes developing vision 3 a lot more appealing. Good info man.
LOL yea, i need to stop being so brave with my exposure metering ... 😅
Where is the part 2?
I dunno
@@ribsy what?
Washing soda is the right stuff, but sodium bicarbonate isn't. Washing soda is sodium carbonate (notice, no "bi-" involved). Not quite the same, sodium carbonate is a little more alkaline than sodium bicarbonate, and as a result, does a much better job softening the remjet's adhesive and freeing the carbon (the actual black in remjet) from the film.
Technically, sodium carbonate is Na2CO3, which sodium bicarbonate is NaHC03 -- hydrogen replacing one of the sodium ions.
thanks for clarifying. i def misspoke -- i def used washing soda (arm and hammer brand). thanks for the science info 😊
I don’t see the reason for CS2 chemistry, unless you want really flat images with low contrast. C-41 does an excellent job with any color including motion picture film. Contrast is easily fixed in post. Remjet is removed with baking soda. On the side note, in my experiments with vision 250d film I always had to overexpose by at least one stop to get the images I wanted. Tungsten is probably more so. I’ve also cross processed vision film in b&w chemistry to get a nice black and white negative. Vision films are finicky and frankly not worth the effort with remjet and fuss with special chemistry
interesting. ive always exposed at box speed and i get great results (when i actually pay attention to proper exposure) i did cross process this film once with c41 and didn't like it per se.
in the end, if the film is designed for ecn2 processing, then thats a good enough reason for using the CS2 kit.
@@ribsy Agreed. And also, while using Cinestill 800T at box speed and with C41, the results are noticeably low res and grainy. It almost feels like it defeats the purpose of cinema formulations if you don't have some kind of ECN or ECN equivalent process, you easily wind up with something noticeably inferior to Portra 400.
Nice :)
yea! new products are fun to work with
Are you sure that you underexposed the shots or were the think negs a result of you not removing the rem-yet in advance? Also you should not really meter for shooting negative film at night except for when you’re doing long exposures. Just do the longest time you can do handheld and shoot wide open.
i definitely underexposed the shots. the remjet should have no impact on the that aspect of the images. i did precisely your advice and it didn't work lol - f2.8 and 1/30th. i got extremely noisy images from the underexposure.
Just pre-bath with water and baking soda... Cinestill is overkill to your wallet, it's designed to make you keep buying from them because developer is ruined quicker with their process.
i have had good results with the the cinestill kit