I've been to Dave's (owner of Flic Film) shop in Turner Valley Alberta many times. Incredibly friendly and generous person. Runs one of the best, film-only, camera stores in Canada and it's in a minuscule western town with less than 400 residents. He's rapidly expanding what he offers too. He already has full sets of home-development gear, temperature controlled water baths, etc. He regularly tells me that he prioritizes consistency and good service over all and seeks to please his loyal clients over rapid expansion. Keep on eye on what Flic Film is doing. I'm headed down to his shop in a week or two again. Let me know if you have any questions or can't get a hold of any Flic Film stuff.
I really appreciate how much great information you provide on your channel. In this video I learned that I don’t need to use the stabilizer since it is baked into the film. I use Kodak Photo-Flo 200.
A teaspoon of baking soda (sodium carbonate) dissolved in 2 cups of warm water as a pre-development rinse also blows remjet right off Kodak vision film, I tried it on a test roll and it worked perfectly. No noticable color shifts or weirdness noticed
Powder C41 kits sounds really good, i spent a lot of time hunting for Tetenal powder kits that they no longer sell. Much cheaper to ship, and keeps longer.
Final rinse for C-41 film has a wetting agent similar to Photo-Flo and an antifungal agent, such as miconazole to prevent mold forming in the negatives during storage. For home kits I don't know, but at least for Fuji chemistry, this is the case. As you said, stabilizer is no longer necessary for C-41 films. In many kits, such as Fuji Hunt Film X-press, they still call the final rinse stabilizer, although it is just a final rinse.
Just a suggestion! I would really appreciate it if you'd consider doing some optical prints just to demonstrate differences etc. There is hardly any information on the internet on how developer, film type etc performs when optically printed on c-type paper. Printing ECN2 film to c-type paper is supposed to cause crossover, how bad is it? Etc. I'm tired of scanning, so I'm moving into c-type prints and looking for all the info I can find. And I know you're skilled at this, thanks for your work here on youtube ;)
Could you do an updated video on your flexicolor process? I want to switch from the powdered kits but it’s hard to know what to order. Specifically on which bleach to use and which developer to use. Or are they all interchangeable? Kodaks literature seems to be old and kind of confusing. I’m sure I’ll figure it out with some more research. Also would love for the video to address why go Flexicolor vs the powder kits. I really do think a solid flexicolor overview video would be good for the community. Thanks for your work in helping teach us all.
I think the reason why there is little information out there for these is because they're intended for use in commercial labs and a lot of the instructions probably come from the processor manufacturers and are from knowledge kept in the businesses. Someone had a really good thread on Reddit recently about developing with lab quantities of C41 chemistry. www.reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/comments/nma0wl/breakdown_kodak_flexicolor_c41_chemistry_versus/
I would like to know if there are colorshifts or other disadvantages if i would develop C41 with lower temperature but longer dev. time? I find that 3:15 min is always a bit short and hectic and irregularities can occur easily… ;)
The 2003 modification of dyes used in C-41 films by Kodak allowed the elimination of the prior stabilization of dyes in the C-41 process. The published formulas for ECN-2 still contain the older dye stabilization in that process, which implies that the Vision 3 films did not get a similar dye modification. Since ECN-2 process is commercial and entirely by machine, it is unlikely that Kodak felt a need for such modification to make the stabilizer more chemically friendly. On the other hand, Kodak may have modified the Vision 3 films and just not changed the process formula specification for full stabilizer, since using the older stabilizer formula on currently used C-41 dyes doesn't hurt anything. I compound my own C-41 chemistry, and I can confirm that, doing so, the cost savings from using a wetting agent only final rinse instead of stabilizer is practically nothing.
@@TheNakedPhotographer Do not know what chemicals Kodak used in their stabilizer (although the formula is on-line if anyone cares). For decades, DIY C-41 chemists have use a mix if very dilute formalin and a few drops of Photoflo. That's not what Kodak specifies, but it works perfectly where it is needed. When I need to renew my pint of formalin every few years, I buy it across the counter at my local drugstore. You use the same stabilizer in E-6 chemistry, where it is still required.
Modern Vision3 films do not require formaldehyde stabilization. E6 chemistry gutted the formaldehyde as well, but in E6 film, formaldehyde is still required but is introduced in the process during pre-bleach in the form of a precursor, FSB (formaldehyde sodium bisulfate) that embeds formaldehyde in the emulsion and thus inhibits the interaction between the undeveloped color coupler and magenta dyes. All current color negative films, including Vision3, however, have different couplers that don't interact with the dyes and thus require no formaldehyde. The Kodak ECN-2 final rinse does not contain formaldehyde, but only a wetting agent and a biocide.
I just bought a Flic Film 8 roll ECN-2 kit 3 weeks ago and it already appears to be exhausted after 5 rolls because my last cartridge of Vision3 came out so faint it was unusable. All I know is I developed a roll of Gold 200 before that and the frames came out very colour cast.
I’m a fan of official C-41 from Kodak or Fuji. There is no such kit for ECN-2, just published recipes by Kodak. I’m pretty sure Kodak gives it a two week shelf life once mixed though. I doubt Flic Film tells people that part
I ordered both the QWD and the Flic Film ECN-2 kits. They are the exact same chemicals with the same development times. Shipping to Canada, Flic film was half the price and comes with additional required chemicals. I would definitely recommend Flic Film over QWD.
Potassium ferricyanide bleach is a traditional color bleach it isn't strange or new. It is also and official kodak alternate bleach when doing separate bleach/ fix process or with motion picture films
I've been researching potassium ferricyanide bleaches for a while and I've always heard that a stop bath was necessary before bleaching, otherwise some magenta casts might appear in the shadows. I've noticed that the c-41 kit uses a ferricyanide bleach but no stop bath and that the pictures look just fine. did your negatives come out okay or did you correct them in lightroom?
@@iNerdier for ferricyanide bleached i'd use kodak's ecn-2 formula (900mL of water, 50mL of 7N sulfuric acid or 10mL concentrated sulfuric acid and water to make 1L)
Have you ever tried Flic Films Black White and Green eco friendly developer? From what I’ve read it a seems really good, I would love to see someone do a review on it.
I really like the look you can get from Kodak motion picture stocks but so few labs will develop it that more DIY kits are definitely very welcome. I also feel like some of those Vision 3 rolls Flic sent you should really be destined for a colour sequel to your fantastic black & white film comparison series!
@@TheNakedPhotographer fingers crossed someone like KEH can hook you up with all the film stocks and maybe some coupons for a nice dinner out for two...
The heater is the cheapest sous vide machine from Amazon. No idea what brand it is. The large container is a table bussing tray from a restaurant supply store.
For Vision 3 Tungsten films, use the 85B correction filter Not the 85C for shooting in daylight. The two filters look very similar but the 85B is definitely the way to go if you can get one.
I have a set of three, 85, 85B, and 8C. I was being conservative, but next time I’m going to try the 85 and 85B. To add, I just looked up the tech sheet and Kodak recommends the 85.
@@TheNakedPhotographer Yes, the 85 and 85B are virtually identical, both are better for daylight correction than the 85C. One way to get an idea of the differences is to put them on a DSLR set to "Tungsten" White Balance and shoot a sunlit scene.
3 ปีที่แล้ว
I was going to tell the same. They came cold because of this, 85A is the right one for outdoor (it converts 3400K to the 5500K of the sun) 85C was often used to slightly warm a daylight film. Greetings from Argentina!
@@TheNakedPhotographer I'm glad I ran across this comment & your response. I was also going to suggest using the plain 85 filter for the Vision 3 tungsten films. With Vision 2T films, it's been hit 'n' miss. That may be due to the fact that they're almost 50 years old, too. I have a can of 5254 & 5247 from '72 & '74 respectively. The 5242 has held up well, but the 5247 occasionally gets a bit of an orange cast to it & seems to turn anything beige or tan bright orange. If I get into a can of 5247 from the late '80s, it's fine. The remjet on the film from the '70s is another story & an absolute bear to wipe off no matter what I used. The new Vision film stock is gravy to clean up & I just use warm (95°) water & my thumb to wipe it down. Seldom does it leave any spots or streaks behind.
![ILLSLICK X YOUNGOHM - We're The same [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yUJNkobYR0E/mqdefault.jpg)
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Performance Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Eh5hItD4Mr0/mqdefault.jpg)
I've been to Dave's (owner of Flic Film) shop in Turner Valley Alberta many times. Incredibly friendly and generous person. Runs one of the best, film-only, camera stores in Canada and it's in a minuscule western town with less than 400 residents.
He's rapidly expanding what he offers too. He already has full sets of home-development gear, temperature controlled water baths, etc. He regularly tells me that he prioritizes consistency and good service over all and seeks to please his loyal clients over rapid expansion. Keep on eye on what Flic Film is doing.
I'm headed down to his shop in a week or two again. Let me know if you have any questions or can't get a hold of any Flic Film stuff.
I really appreciate how much great information you provide on your channel. In this video I learned that I don’t need to use the stabilizer since it is baked into the film. I use Kodak Photo-Flo 200.
I bought the FlicFilm ECN-2 kit from Freestyle Photo in LA.
Thanks!
A teaspoon of baking soda (sodium carbonate) dissolved in 2 cups of warm water as a pre-development rinse also blows remjet right off Kodak vision film, I tried it on a test roll and it worked perfectly. No noticable color shifts or weirdness noticed
Powder C41 kits sounds really good, i spent a lot of time hunting for Tetenal powder kits that they no longer sell. Much cheaper to ship, and keeps longer.
It looks like Photo Warehouse offers it in the US if anyone wants it here
Final rinse for C-41 film has a wetting agent similar to Photo-Flo and an antifungal agent, such as miconazole to prevent mold forming in the negatives during storage. For home kits I don't know, but at least for Fuji chemistry, this is the case. As you said, stabilizer is no longer necessary for C-41 films. In many kits, such as Fuji Hunt Film X-press, they still call the final rinse stabilizer, although it is just a final rinse.
Just a suggestion! I would really appreciate it if you'd consider doing some optical prints just to demonstrate differences etc. There is hardly any information on the internet on how developer, film type etc performs when optically printed on c-type paper. Printing ECN2 film to c-type paper is supposed to cause crossover, how bad is it? Etc. I'm tired of scanning, so I'm moving into c-type prints and looking for all the info I can find. And I know you're skilled at this, thanks for your work here on youtube ;)
That’s a decent idea
Could you do an updated video on your flexicolor process? I want to switch from the powdered kits but it’s hard to know what to order. Specifically on which bleach to use and which developer to use. Or are they all interchangeable? Kodaks literature seems to be old and kind of confusing. I’m sure I’ll figure it out with some more research. Also would love for the video to address why go Flexicolor vs the powder kits. I really do think a solid flexicolor overview video would be good for the community.
Thanks for your work in helping teach us all.
I think the reason why there is little information out there for these is because they're intended for use in commercial labs and a lot of the instructions probably come from the processor manufacturers and are from knowledge kept in the businesses. Someone had a really good thread on Reddit recently about developing with lab quantities of C41 chemistry. www.reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/comments/nma0wl/breakdown_kodak_flexicolor_c41_chemistry_versus/
The developers are interchangeable. LORR will keep longer than the standard. Same for bleach. Kodak color developer starter is compatible with both.
I would like to know if there are colorshifts or other disadvantages if i would develop C41 with lower temperature but longer dev. time? I find that 3:15 min is always a bit short and hectic and irregularities can occur easily… ;)
That has been on my wishlist of video topics for a while. Because of the time involved I just haven’t tackled it yet.
@@TheNakedPhotographer That would very interesting to see.
The 2003 modification of dyes used in C-41 films by Kodak allowed the elimination of the prior stabilization of dyes in the C-41 process. The published formulas for ECN-2 still contain the older dye stabilization in that process, which implies that the Vision 3 films did not get a similar dye modification. Since ECN-2 process is commercial and entirely by machine, it is unlikely that Kodak felt a need for such modification to make the stabilizer more chemically friendly. On the other hand, Kodak may have modified the Vision 3 films and just not changed the process formula specification for full stabilizer, since using the older stabilizer formula on currently used C-41 dyes doesn't hurt anything. I compound my own C-41 chemistry, and I can confirm that, doing so, the cost savings from using a wetting agent only final rinse instead of stabilizer is practically nothing.
The chemicals used in the stabilizer was banned by the EPA, so I think Kodak was forced to change all their films.
@@TheNakedPhotographer Do not know what chemicals Kodak used in their stabilizer (although the formula is on-line if anyone cares). For decades, DIY C-41 chemists have use a mix if very dilute formalin and a few drops of Photoflo. That's not what Kodak specifies, but it works perfectly where it is needed. When I need to renew my pint of formalin every few years, I buy it across the counter at my local drugstore. You use the same stabilizer in E-6 chemistry, where it is still required.
Modern Vision3 films do not require formaldehyde stabilization. E6 chemistry gutted the formaldehyde as well, but in E6 film, formaldehyde is still required but is introduced in the process during pre-bleach in the form of a precursor, FSB (formaldehyde sodium bisulfate) that embeds formaldehyde in the emulsion and thus inhibits the interaction between the undeveloped color coupler and magenta dyes. All current color negative films, including Vision3, however, have different couplers that don't interact with the dyes and thus require no formaldehyde. The Kodak ECN-2 final rinse does not contain formaldehyde, but only a wetting agent and a biocide.
I just bought a Flic Film 8 roll ECN-2 kit 3 weeks ago and it already appears to be exhausted after 5 rolls because my last cartridge of Vision3 came out so faint it was unusable. All I know is I developed a roll of Gold 200 before that and the frames came out very colour cast.
I’m a fan of official C-41 from Kodak or Fuji. There is no such kit for ECN-2, just published recipes by Kodak. I’m pretty sure Kodak gives it a two week shelf life once mixed though. I doubt Flic Film tells people that part
@@TheNakedPhotographer*Sigh* that's such a short shelf life compared to C-41 and E-6. Wish Flic Film posted that on their kit or website.
I ordered both the QWD and the Flic Film ECN-2 kits. They are the exact same chemicals with the same development times. Shipping to Canada, Flic film was half the price and comes with additional required chemicals. I would definitely recommend Flic Film over QWD.
Excellent content. Thank you very much.
Potassium ferricyanide bleach is a traditional color bleach it isn't strange or new. It is also and official kodak alternate bleach when doing separate bleach/ fix process or with motion picture films
It’s standard for ECN-2 process, but not for C-41. Both kits here contain the same ferricyanide bleach.
Good to see it's not a blix kit.
I've been researching potassium ferricyanide bleaches for a while and I've always heard that a stop bath was necessary before bleaching, otherwise some magenta casts might appear in the shadows. I've noticed that the c-41 kit uses a ferricyanide bleach but no stop bath and that the pictures look just fine. did your negatives come out okay or did you correct them in lightroom?
Both kits included a stop bath.
@@TheNakedPhotographer you're right! that part of the video went right over my head
It’s ok, I didn’t really walk through the processes as demos, mostly just showed the results.
This explains a lot the problems I’ve been having with tetenal kits, I am going to try a stop bath next time I develop colour
@@iNerdier for ferricyanide bleached i'd use kodak's ecn-2 formula (900mL of water, 50mL of 7N sulfuric acid or 10mL concentrated sulfuric acid and water to make 1L)
Have you ever tried Flic Films Black White and Green eco friendly developer? From what I’ve read it a seems really good, I would love to see someone do a review on it.
Yes, they sent me some and I’ve used it a couple times. I need to do a side by side with D76
It looks like Photo Flo 600 isn’t available any longer. Can you recommend an alternative or will Photo Flo 200 work?
I use the 200 and am satisfied with the results
I really like the look you can get from Kodak motion picture stocks but so few labs will develop it that more DIY kits are definitely very welcome. I also feel like some of those Vision 3 rolls Flic sent you should really be destined for a colour sequel to your fantastic black & white film comparison series!
I want to do a color version, but I will have to get sponsors for the cost. And permission from my wife to be in the darkroom that long again.
@@TheNakedPhotographer fingers crossed someone like KEH can hook you up with all the film stocks and maybe some coupons for a nice dinner out for two...
What water heater and sized container are you using here please?
The heater is the cheapest sous vide machine from Amazon. No idea what brand it is. The large container is a table bussing tray from a restaurant supply store.
@@TheNakedPhotographer thank you.
For Vision 3 Tungsten films, use the 85B correction filter Not the 85C for shooting in daylight. The two filters look very similar but the 85B is definitely the way to go
if you can get one.
I have a set of three, 85, 85B, and 8C. I was being conservative, but next time I’m going to try the 85 and 85B.
To add, I just looked up the tech sheet and Kodak recommends the 85.
@@TheNakedPhotographer Yes, the 85 and 85B are virtually identical, both are better for daylight correction than the 85C.
One way to get an idea of the differences is to put them on a DSLR set to "Tungsten" White Balance and shoot a sunlit scene.
I was going to tell the same. They came cold because of this, 85A is the right one for outdoor (it converts 3400K to the 5500K of the sun) 85C was often used to slightly warm a daylight film. Greetings from Argentina!
@@TheNakedPhotographer I'm glad I ran across this comment & your response. I was also going to suggest using the plain 85 filter for the Vision 3 tungsten films. With Vision 2T films, it's been hit 'n' miss. That may be due to the fact that they're almost 50 years old, too. I have a can of 5254 & 5247 from '72 & '74 respectively. The 5242 has held up well, but the 5247 occasionally gets a bit of an orange cast to it & seems to turn anything beige or tan bright orange. If I get into a can of 5247 from the late '80s, it's fine. The remjet on the film from the '70s is another story & an absolute bear to wipe off no matter what I used. The new Vision film stock is gravy to clean up & I just use warm (95°) water & my thumb to wipe it down. Seldom does it leave any spots or streaks behind.
Super chat is only active when you live stream
Diethylene glycol vs mono-ethylene glycol
Both are wetting agents, neither are stabilizers