Vibration Therapy for Osteoporosis? Does Whole Body Vibration Really Work?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2024
- Vibration Therapy for Osteoporosis? Does Whole Body Vibration Really Work? In this video I discuss recent studies about the effect of vibration plates on bone health. Watch this video to learn more on improving your bone health and lifespan.
Watch and Enjoy! Dr. Doug Lucas Key Moments in this Episode
========================
00:00 Intro and summary
00:38 What is a vibration plate?
2:54 Does a vibration plate improve bone health?
6:25 Bone Mineral Density
8:47 Second Study
10:20 Closing Summary
INTERESTED IN OUR OPTIMAL BONE HEALTH PROGRAM? Click the link below to speak with a specialist! Click here: www.optimalhumanhealth.com/me...
SIGN UP FOR MY FREE MASTERCLASS USING THE LINK BELOW!
Click here: www.optimalhumanhealth.com/bu...
Masterclass details: Hosted by Doug Lucas, DO, Board Certified Orthopedic Surgeon and Anti-Aging Specialist, you'll gain insight into the lifestyle, nutrition, testing, and medical solutions for Osteoporosis management and yes, possibly, even reversal.
HEALTH SPAN NATION: www.optimalhumanhealth.com/pr...
JOIN OUR FREE BONE FOUNDATIONS COURSE AND UNLOCK ADDED BONUSES: www.optimalbonehealth.com/bonus
Purchase the hardcopy of "The Osteoporosis Breakthrough" here: www.amazon.com/Osteoporosis-B...
I would be grateful if you could consider sharing your thoughts by leaving a review once you've had a chance to read it. Your feedback can inspire others on their own path to bone health excellence. You can leave a review here: www.amazon.com/product-review...
=======================
This channel is focused on Bones, Hormones, and Healthspan to help midlife women and beyond aim for optimal, not average, and reignite their spark!
The videos on this channel will be focused around helping women navigate healthspan and longevity through the lens of osteoporosis, perimenopause, and menopause. When it comes to osteoporosis and menopause providers and educators often get tunnel vision and your symptoms might get better, but if you don't keep longevity in mind, symptom improvement may come at the expense of heart and brain health.
Subscribe and follow along as Dr. Doug Lucas explores the research and clinical applications surrounding women's health.
ABOUT DR. DOUG LUCAS
========================
Dr. Doug Lucas: Owner/founder of Optimal Bone Health and Optimal Human Health. My team and I work together to create custom bone optimization plans for individuals based around supplements, hormone optimization, peptides and more in order to increase bone health and longevity!
Optimal Bone Health www.optimalhumanhealth.com/
Instagram: / dr_douglucas
Facebook: / drdouglucas
Linkedin: / doug-lucas-b0243522
#osteoporosis
#hormones
#bones
I would like to add, as a 72 y.o. having used the WBV for about 3 months, there is an additional benefit - in that it is something positive and active that I can do. It gives me hope, it's fun, it increased my energy level, makes me feel like exercising more. So that's a good thing.
Good to know! Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for sharing this. I am 78 and just got diagonosed.
I just ordered my vibration plate today, it's on the way from Amazon now, and I hope to get the same effect, and make me feel like exercising more.
Would you please share which one you got? Thank you.@@HappyBeeTV-BeeHappy
I love this comment! People are more likely to do something that is fun, and the vibration plate definitely is that. I just got one recently and although I do a lot of different exercises, I look forward to using this the most!
I like the fact that you are NOT selling anything. Involving the science with your background was great. I have patients who can use this (LMT) and we are not getting any younger so, thank you for creating an informative yet, interesting video!
Thank you so much for watching! Glad it was helpful.
@Dr_DougLucas I'm so tired of videos that are just about selling things. I pay to avoid ads but still get them! Thanks.
I love my LifePro Rumble, Max. Been using it for almost a year. It’s made my whole body stronger, muscle strength is amazing, cellulite is minimized and it’s fun to do. I use it every day
Glad to hear that!
I bought the waver. I hope I don't regret not getting the rumbler. It's my first one and hasn't come yet. I'm excited
Whole Body Vibration involves standing on a plate that basically shakes the body. LOw Intensity Vibration involves standing on a plate that does not move but vibration is sent up through plate and moves through your body. The WBV has been around for a while and its proponents swear by it for bone health. The research papers and trials are mixed and WBV has the potential to cause harm if a person is susceptible to retina detachment, vertigo and replaced joints. If you are instructed to bend your knees when standing on a WBV device, then the vibration rate is too high. If a person has a fragile spine, heavy vibration is likely to cause vertebral fracture. The LIV was significant research and a clinical trial conducted by Professor Clinton Rubin and his findings demonstrated bone quality improvement because of the action of the vibration in stimulating osteoblast cell growth within the bone marrow. Professor Belinda Beck has undertaken a further study on low intensity vibration relative to her Onero bone building program based on her successful trials on weighted exercise. The results are not yet out. A recent meta analysis of research papers into vibration therapy concluded that LOW INENSITY vibration is demonstrated to improve bone density and reduce fractures. I have found research on the whole body vibration plates had varied results but the interesting thing was that those papers that concluded that WBV made some benefits were operating in the 30 to 40 hz range. Dr Rubin’s research demonstrated that 30hz for 10 minutes was sufficient to stimulate the activation of osteoblast cell growth. Anyone can access his research - he has many interviews and lectures on TH-cam. Thank you for presenting this topic, but I feel there is a lot more to be discussed. The confusion between whole body vibration and low intensity vibration can lead to people purchasing a device that may have dubious or even dangerous consequences. You are right about the level of vibration being potentially dangerous, but I’d love you to delve deeper into the research of Dr Clinton Rubin (you’d understand the technicality of his medical research). I’m hanging out for Prof Beck’s final conclusions - I believe she has a few hundred participants within 4 groups.
Thank you for the thorough response. I recommend low intensity intentionally and to start small for the concerns mentioned above. As an orthopedic surgeon I disagree that vibration would be contraindicated in joint replacement. I don't see the others you mention in research or disclaimers on the product sites. I look forward to the study you mentioned coming out as well.
⁰ⁿ u8
Z?Zucchini
I am waiting also!..👏👏👏
Yo también 😊
oh
COVID lockdown and post accident surgery created a perfect storm for osteoporosis. I decided against pain medication because of its systemic consequences. At the same time, I decided that bone health was my first financial and physical priority. I, therefore, researched voraciously. I purchased Power Plate vibration amplitude was too high. So, I bought Marodyme LIV (LIV=low intensity vibration. I now use both. I use Power Plate first thing in the morning. I use Marodyme LIV last thing in the evening. Each has its place in my self-imposed protocol for longevity with vitality. Thank you for your study based analyses, the only kind that has value.
That's great! Thank you for sharing how you use your vibration plates!
71 yrs Female. Dexa scan done. Came back severe Osteoporosis (compared to a 35 yr old) Back Hip Leg pain led me to Vibration Plates. Expensive Chiro showed me his expensive Vibration Plate. I thought to myself "Hmmm why can't I do that at home?" Research led me to a Vibration Plate that I stand on and off 5 min. at a time. I do have a fear of HELP I HAVE FALLEN AND I CAN'T GET UP!! I really think the Vibration Plate I have is starting to help. Excited for next Dexa Scan when Insurance will pay for it. I grew tired of the "I'm tired and old feeling" Now, feeling stronger everyday using the VP and exercising/streatching every day. Trying to gain 10 years back. ha ha.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing. What plate did you invest in?
I watched a documentary about 20 years ago about a scientist that measured bone mass increases due to vibrations. Here we are now with vibration plates that use this science to increase bone mass.
Interesting! Thank you for sharing this
Love your science based analyses!
Thank you for watching!
Thanks for sharing the information you have. 👍
You bet! Thanks for listening
Thank you for your short, scientific and very informative video! I learned about Marodyne this morning with Margaret Miller and I ordered one. With my progressive resistance workouts and attention to protein, creatine and taurine, my low bone density (not yet osteoporosis, however) has not worsened, except a tiny bit in the hip. I feel this vibration machine added to my present regime will be the icing on the cake. At 70, I feel great with no aches, pains or mobility issues, and I hope to keep it that way naturally. I feel the cost is insurance for healthy golden years.
That is great! Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
Dr Douglas, thank you!
It was only a few days ago that you received our request on our last live and you delivered!
Looking forward to your take on EMS as well! 😊
Christina, You are welcome. EMS is in cue.
Thank you, Dr. Doug… I have had a full body vibrating machine for about six years… I purchased it after I was told that my lymphatic system does not work quite as well as it should… I am pretty faithfully using it, and I do believe my lymphatic system is working a little better, because I perspire more now… And since I was just diagnosed with osteoporosis, I will be even more faithful… I was so happy to find this video… Thank you so much....
Thanks for sharing!
Excellent, thank you!
Thank you for watching!
I was looking into the WBV. I think I will purchase one after this video. I think this will help my aging parents. Thank you for covering WBV.😊
Of course, glad you enjoyed this video!
Kudos Dr. Doug, you’re doing a wonderful job fleshing out Osteoporosis. I’m impressed with the fact that you make the effort to answer questions and appreciate that you try to maintain an independent stance. You’re not a shill for anyone.
I’m a journalist who is researching a story on vibration therapy as part of BMD building. I’m the test case so this is of more than passing interest. I’ve noted your interview with Dr. Rubin and your positive comments about his technology.
Scrolling through various forums, such as the Mayo Clinic, I have seen (mostly) positive anecdotal commentary about the device.
However, there doesn’t seem to be (correct me if I’m wrong) much if any, clinical trial data on the Marodyne LIV. That, of course, doesn’t mean it’s not a good, effective product. There just doesn’t seem to be the kind of data that one would see on a clinical trial of a drug. (Yes, I realize it costs a fortune to run clinical trials).
And yes, every patient is different and there are no guarantees. What may work for one person, doesn’t necessarily work for another. All we can do, is what you advocate--eat sensibly, exercise, etc.
So assuming one has the resources to afford a Marodyne LIV, would you unequivocally recommend it as part of a BMD strengthening program?
Thank you.
Take a look at our conclusion going up next week.
I have a wbv plate that cost me about $250, 5 yrs ago. I use it 30 min a day. It also helps me strengthen pelvic floor muscles for bladder control.
Great! What’s the brand?
@@Dr_DougLucas Confidence, bought it through Amazon. But it's no longer available.
What brand did you buy?
@@sharonmitchel1377 Confidence
For bladder control does one need to flex or kegal or just vibrate on it?
Thanks Dr. Doug for this and your other videos. This video is the one I first discovered you on, and I have been researching the concept and wanted to point out a couple of things. There are two modes of WBV units, vertical and oscillating. The oscillating models tend to have much lower frequency than the ones found effective for OP. The models you mentioned, the Power Plate and Marodyne LIF are vertical modes, but there are two other ones out there, VT007 and its predecessor VT03F. I have looked at their web site, and I am impressed with the maker, so I have ordered the VT007. I have no financial interest, but since it is much less expensive than the others, I thought you might want to consider it in further videos on the subject. They also have a 6-month clinical trial going with a reimbursement of $100 at the end, but the method of using is pretty open-ended. One other thing I should mention is that it does include the 20 Hz in its range (also 35-40). There was a study that said this Hz was good for seniors. Thanks again!
Thank you for sharing this!
I bought a LifePro Rumblex 4. It has low 15hrz to 60hrz. It has increased my balance immensely. I also use it when doing knee bends, stomping as well as heavy walking in place. It isn't a quiet or easy fix but i have noticed a positive difference.
Thanks for sharing. I haven't seen that model. I'm glad they allow modification and share the actual frequency.
I also have the same LifePro Rumblex. It is an excellent product and an excellent company. I paid about $400 on Amazon for this product and, after watching this video, I am going to start using it at least 3x a week, gradually increase my time from 10 to 30 minutes, and figure out the right adjustments! I am not only dealing with osteoporosis but scoliosis that really kicked in around menopause as well. Do not understand why some of these products are so expensive. This particular model has different types of vibration including:
Rumblex Plus 4D Vibration Plate Exercise Machine - Triple Motor Oscillation, Linear, Pulsation + 3D/4D Motion Vibration Platform | Whole Body Viberation
I have the Rumblex 4D and am looking forward to my next bone density test! My challenge is to keep it to a single vibration and not go all out at all three movements… I love it. I use it 30 minutes at least six days a week.
I have a LifePro Mini and it’s under $100. Great starting plate and helps with my fibromyalgia and sacroiliac pain. Also ordered from Amazon.
I have the Rumblex as well and love it. I loved it so much that I got the Lifepro Waver (I believe that's the name) for a friend and she loved it. Then our other friend borrowed hers and won't return it... So now I'm buying a replacement. Lol
Thank you for covering this subject. I had seen a vid that discussed the Marodyne low impact vibration plate. I wasn’t very sure if these devices did anything at all. I will explore the two you suggested. I feel like because I don’t want the medication I am willing to add anything else that may be beneficial for improving my bone health. Thank you so much for doing these videos!
You are welcome! Wishing you well on your journey.
I am also considering purchasing this vibration plate, it is expensive, but I have osteoporosis in my femur neck and also do not want to go on medication. I looked at power plate move, but it has LOTS of celebrity endorsements and that always raises a red flag for me, plus it's too heavy at 87 pounds.
@@cheeksmcgill9858 it is a heavier unit. Don’t let the celebrity endorses disuade you. This is effective marketing and Something I would use if I could find the right endorser!
Marodyne LIV is a great product too with a smaller footprint but a higher price tag I believe.
Thank You
@@Dr_DougLucas
Thank you!@@cheeksmcgill9858
Still researching what is best for me at age 73 it's been 3 week's since found out I've had osteoporosis my doctor had my results 7 months ago. Thank you❤
Not much urgency there! Sorry about that. Consider joining our HealthSpan Nation, Masterclass and working through our Bone Foundations Course.
I’ve recently seen simple impact activities like stomping and heel drop exercises can be impactful in building bone.
Simone,
Yes, I recently reviewed a meta analysis reviewing jumping studies showing benefit. I'll drop the link below. It seems that gravity, impact and load are critical pieces to the bone response and growth equation. Our #1 rule for patients though. Don't Hurt Yourself!
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21953474/
Great overview. I’ve been studying vibration plates for some time. I bought one but due to a knee scoping it rocked too much and hurt my knee so I sold it. I’m looking at a power plate move now. Thx!
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you....
Thank you.
I am glad I came across your video I went to a health place that offered red lite therapy with a power plate plus nutritional supplements. So while using the power plate for 10mins 3x a week.I have arthritis in both my knees one is bone on bone
I have been going for 2 months and almost totally out of pain sit to stand and walking. I swear by this machine I will be purchasing one for home I will be on it 10mins a day so glad I experienced this.
Thank you for sharing your experience!
Informative
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you!
Just "found" you and you and your content are great! One question about WBV - if you've had two hip replacements, is this still a good therapy to add? Thanks and I'm looking forward to learning more from you!
You'll have to ask your surgeon. As a surgeon I didn't mind the stress but there will be differences of opinion and may depend on if the device is cemented in place versus press fit with in growth.
I use one for about 10 min daily before I get into the sauna for lymphatic stimulation, but also muscle and hopefully bone density. This was helpful! I knew to use the lowest setting, but now I know what freq and amplitude I want to verify it has. I inherited it from my dad, so didn't research the purchase....
Thank you for sharing!
My chiropractor told me to use the plate after the sauna?!
@@lorimcneil8062 Hmmm. I guess that could make sense, too, to spread the lymph around? But I'd want to shower off the sweat first. Might have to try it, at least for a few minutes.... Thanks!
@@lorinichols1847 well, I’m not saying one is right over the other. This was just what she told me. I don’t want to misinform you. As I think about it, doing it before the sauna seems to me to shake things up a bit and open your lymphatic drainage!
@@lorimcneil8062 RIght, but now I'm thinking a little before and after might be ideal. I'll have to poke around and see if I can confirm either one or both. 🙂
My score was -2.5 for the femur. Then bought and used a wbv machine for lymphatic care. After several years, i repeated the scan. My femur was +1, pelvis, +0.1, but spine was -1. My doctor felt it was an error. I think it was how i used the powerplate. So i began spending time on the plate loading upper back/spine under an athletic trainers care. Will retest in a year, but i feel that the spine will improve with this targeted program.
Wow! That’s great.
Awesome! What plate did you use?
Yes, what plate did you use and how did you target your back?
@peggywells8581 That's great! Were you using it differently--how were/are you using the wbv powerplate?
but in the video he said if you have a fragile spine it might not be a good idea to use a vibration plate
I’m so glad I didn’t throw out my vibration machine!
Haha, I hope it's not from 1980!
I’m a new subscriber to your podcast and loved every one of your topics regarding the osteoporosis subject. I’m a former dancer andI had been diagnosed osteoporosis for few years, recently added weight training …. I heard that Dr. Ruben,s Low intensity vibration plate can improve bone density dramatically, but the price is outrageous, so I bought a life Pro low intensity vibration for $120, only been using it for few days in lowest intensity doing squats and balance exercises on it, don’t know if that’s is a good choice for bone density, would love to know what your thoughts on that !? Truly appreciated your work and expertise !
Hello!
I haven't looked into that machine. There are many options out there and they may be just as good. Hard to know but if you can find out if the frequency and amplitude are similar to Marodyne Liv you would be headed in the right direction!
Hi! I have the same machine. The company said that it only goes to 14Hz and the amplitude goes as high as 8mm. I had to email them to gather the data on Hz.
It may not be high enough, but at the lowest amplitude, perhaps it can still help. I find even at a low setting, 15 mid-level amplitude (5mm) for 5 minutes twice per day, that my balance is much better than it was.
I bought a Bluefin Fitness plate because it's programmable to the specifications in those studies. It can do an oscillating motion, but what I was seeing in some articles was that the vertical vibration is best for bone building. So, this machine gives you that option of the straight up and down movement versus the oscillating movement (that would be better for building balance). Then, I can set the frequency at 35-40. It's too early for me to tell if there is any improvement, but I can say that I really like this machine. It's not as inexpensive as some on the market, but is a midrange in price. Also, I have been splitting my time between standing on the machine with sitting on it - hoping to get benefits on the spine. And, finally, I try to spend a few minutes in a pushup position with my hands on the plate so that the arms and wrists will receive some stimulation, as well. Hope this helps!
Thank you for sharing this!
Where do you purchase it?
Thank you! I just ordered my first plate! I do have severe Osteoporosis (at a young age) with the worst being in my hips. I am nervous but low and slow I will go!
Glad this video was helpful, Yes slow and steady!
I joined Planet Fitness on the $25 monthly plan. My Medicare plan pays $10 of that. They have have a Total Body machine that has a vibration plate along with Red Light therapy and of course all the exercise equipment you could ask for. I’ve been doing 12 minutes of the Total Body 1st, then weight training. End with the wonderful hydrobed massage. I’m going to start and end with Total Body starting next week after watching this video! Thanks for all your information!
Yes, thank you for sharing this! Glad you enjoyed this video.
I do the same! I just started using the Smith machine and doing the exercises done in the LiftMor therapy that was proven to increase bone density. With the reward of the Hydrobed at the end. 🥰
@@kathy8854 Nice!
I have a Planet Fitness membership and have been in their "body enhancement" room a few times now. This is a machine that turns on for about 12 minutes, it vibrates, shines red light on your body, plays music, and fans are circulating the air inside the machine. It's enjoyable, and it was interesting to see your research on vibration and read the comments in the comment section. I didn't know if it was doing anything or not; now I think I'll keep using the machine whenever I go. (Also love their hydromassage beds/loungers; my monthly membership is worth it just for that!)
Thank you for sharing this!
I use this each time I go after exercising. Shower and use the hydromassager and chair massager.
I definitely think jump impact training and heavy weight lifting training is the way to go. Builds bone strength and density.
Absolutely, but not everyone can do this activity safely. WBV is a great tool that can be used by almost anyone!
Oh ya true. Interesting. I havent researched this at all.
And this can be done more easily on a day when you can't do a workout for whatever reason. Doesn't have to be one or the other. More tools in the toolbox!
Love hearing about my bones😊 And could only identify with the needed directions for returning to a better future.
Thank you for watching!
Thank you very much for covering this topic. In the study you mentioned, which says using a vibration plate for 30 minutes a day, was that 30minutes non-stop or interval? One source says staying on the vibration device for 30-60 seconds, then pausing for equal time 30-60 seconds, then repeating this process for 10-15 minutes. Thanks.
My understanding is that it’s continuous. There is a theoretical pause needed after impact training so that’s probably where this is coming from. I would defer to recs from the companies that designed them.
Update... I'd heard about vibration therapy for bone density for many years but never bought one because the only one I'd known about was the super-expensive Marodyne unit. This past spring, however, when going to Physical Therapy for hip & knee pain (in addition to severe osteoporosis (fortunately I've never fractured) I also have severe scoliosis (50-degree thoracic & lumbar curves) so get super tight muscle which causes a multitude of issues. In any event, they had me using a WBV plate to help with balance in addition to building muscle by doing a step type of routine on it. It was not like a Marodyne in that it was more of an oscillating motion and a bit more movement (higher G-force?) than the Low-Intensity Vibration units (Marodyne). I liked it... so, between that experience and your video, I decided to bite the bullet and buy myself a WBV Unit (Lifepro Rumblex Plus) and I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I won't know for a while if it's helping me build bone density, but it relaxes & loosens my muscles in such an amazing way that when I get onto my treadmill after 10 minutes, I'm walking at a much more lively speed and more effortlessly!! I've been doing my arm weights on it as well as squats and step-ups for my lower body- so I'm not wasting time just standing on it - but even if I just stood there for 10 minutes (which only did the first day I got it), I felt so loose and warmed up afterward - so it's doing something to the muscles for sure!! I highly recommend getting one!!
Thanks for sharing! We have a series of videos coming out on this topic including interviews with Dr. Rubin from Marodyne and Dr. COnviser from PowerPlate.
Interesting, as I had wondered about using vibration for recovering bone after a wrist fracture. This would stimulate bone growth without risking fractures, say from a fall while running. I wasn't aware these vibration machines existed. I'm going to put one on my Christmas list now.
The science makes sense, as changing direction rapidly put microstress on the bone tissue, and thus would increase bone production.
I wonder, too, if it can reduce bone leeching in those with metabolic disorders?
Very helpful, VERY interesting!
There are adjustable units that are about $100 right now. These have become far more affordable. Use of a banister or similar to help balance when you first start is a very good idea.
Let us know how it goes. I have some interviews with experts in this space coming out so make sure you are subscribed and signed up for notifications.
I bought a LifePro Fitness whole body vibration plate that can be set on 30 hz (needed for rebuilding bone) and has a fairly gentle vibration. It also has several other speeds and settings but this is the one for bone building. It cost me approximately $450 in 2022, and has a lifetime warranty. I was recently diagnosed with osteoporosis in the left femoral neck, so I'm really happy to already have the vibration plate. The one I bought is the Rumblex Pro which also has bands that can be attached for a good workout while on the plate.
Thanks for sharing. Great to see other products that fit our requirements.
How do you adjust the mm. Amplitude on a profit
@@marciabeerbower4927 I'm not sure. You'll have to ask the manufacturer.
I have the Rumblex 4 vib plate that I bought this year. If this is the same machine you have would you be willing to share how you set it to 30hz?
@@patriciadrank6543 I'm not sure if it would be the same...mine is a Rumblex Pro. But I called the company and was told to set the mode on oscilation (the gentlest movement) and the speed at 15. And that will be 30 HZ. Then just stand on it for 10 minutes. I sometimes do it twice a day, but not always. I'd suggest calling Life Pro to find out if it is the same. Good luck!
Considering the cost of my Forteo regiment at nearly $4k a month I felt that the cost of a Marodyne LIV (Low Intensity Vibration) device was a bargain. I researched this device and its inventor Dr. Clint Rubin who collaborated with NASA on its development before I bought one. I use it for 10 minutes every day.
That's great Ralph! I agree that cost for products like these and services like ours are dwarfed by costs of pharmaceuticals but that depends on your insurance and belief system around medical care.
Wow! Is that 4,000 per month? I live on that amount for 3 months
@@MM-uv6kb That's correct. Natural solutions cost MUCH less!
@@MM-uv6kb Yes, $4000 a month for 24 months. Lilly has a patent on Forteo and can charge whatever they please.
I'm so happy with my Marodyne LiV plate....well worth the cost...and there is not the problem with harm to joints with the WBV plates.
Dr Doug. Thank you for this information. I’ve been wondering about this since I’ve been diagnosed with osteoporosis and I’ve also had a knee replacement 2 years ago. Since you are an orthopedic doctor I would like to know your opinion if it’d be an option for me? Would it do anything negative to the knee replacement? I would t want to try to help one condition and cause another! Last year I had a fall and fractured my wrist, radial and ulna so I’m very concerned about falling! I’m 78 and have always been physically active and want that to continue. I’m enjoying your channel and want to thank you for all the information and help that you’re providing! ❤
Hello,
You're going to want to ask your surgeon. For me, I didn't worry about replacements and WBV but my implants weren't cemented.
Mine either, two hips, love my move plate.
Hi there,
When did you start using the powerplate after your surgery? @@pionus3651
Hi, thanks so much for the video and information. I have one partial and one full knee replacements. Is this something that I can do? Thanks!
Hello,
You'll have to ask your surgeon. As a surgeon I didn't mind my patients using them but I don't believe this is well studied and each surgeon will likely have their preference.
For me, in Canada, the Marodyne Liv is $4500. I don't want any fractures or broken bones but I just can't afford this machine. Being FDA approved, I think insurance should help. Thank you for your video's. Just found you and like them a lot. Very informative.
Hi Simone,
It is costly! It is also a high quality machine. The other company I mentioned PowerPlate has lower priced machines and specific research on osteoporosis.
So many people rely on insurance to take care of their health but regardless of the country publicly available insurance will ALWAYS have limitations. It's simply the economics. Imaging the cost of providing everyone with osteoporosis a MarodyneLiv! Not possible.
I believe that healthcare is a right but that we have to understand the limitations of a system that is built around that belief and for those things that are outside of that system consider them an investment in ourselves. Health optimization will never be covered by insurance in my opinion. Maybe I'm too pessimistic. I'd love to be proven wrong!
Who pays for the research? I suspect all machines have some benefits
@@googbert Bias is around but there does seem to be a trend toward low amplitude, high frequency devices having a significant impact on bone.
I love my MOVE powerplate!
@@googbertThere are lots of studies on this topic from peer-reviewed journals.
I have the Hypervibe and it definitely helps alleviate my back and joint pain.
Thank you for sharing!
Where did you purchase it?
@@sheila7814 We put all our links for affiliates in our HealthSpan Nation member site. You can learn more on DrDougLucas.com
I am waiting to see the results trauma study being conducted jointly between Belinda Beck and Clinton Rubin before I get a vibration plate.
Another listener mentioned this study. I look forward to it as well!
Two things I'm surprised were not mentioned here. One being the Juvent, which is a micro impact vibration plate vs the Marodyne, which is LiV - low impact vibration. The other thing is the studies showing all the dangers potentially to the eyes when using a high vibration plate. Sadly, the Juvent and Marodyne are thousands of dollars! And I can't find any facilities in my state that have them. For some reason Florida is filled with health professionals with machines for their clients to use.
Hi Renda,
Thank you for bringing this up. Juvent didn't come up in my team's original research. I took a look and it seems like it's slightly different in approach. Their research does support bone building but the study on their site was on pediatric cancer survivors which we would have to extrapolate to our patient population. It may be great but there is insufficient evidence to encourage me to recommend this product over the others mentioned.
I have not seen any data on the potential dangers to eyes with WBV. Do you have any sources for this concern? I'd love to further explore them if you do.
Thanks again!
@@Dr_DougLucas
I think it’s called retinal detachment. Sadly, there are some studies out there showing the high intensity machines can lead to this, but it’s rare.
Yes, I believe the potential eye issue is retinal detachment too, but the danger may only be for those with the condition already.
Studies of dangers of vibration were workplace related as far as I am aware. The International Safety Organization (ISO) has a threshold for human tolerance of vibration (ISO-2631) with strict duration guidelines for human exposure.
Dr. Rubin was a founder of Juvent Medical and later Marodyne. He was involved in developing and testing both the original Juvent machine and Juvent claims the current Marodyne uses a design similar to that first Juvent one (the one used in studies I saw on WBV and bones). He seems to not be involved with Juvent at this point. There are a multitude of studies published by Dr. Rubin in PubMed, and some of the early ones were with the early Juvent machine.
I saw the research from Dr Rubin on the dangers of high intensity machines but recommends low intensity for osteoporosis
Dr. Doug, Have you heard about the soon to be available Osteoboost Vibration Belt by Bone Health Technologies? Sounds extremely promising. I’m on their waiting list now.
Would love to see you do a video on this new product.
Great recommendation! We will add that to our list
Good evening..Thank u for a well Informed Topic.I appreciate the Lengths u take in Health Education.I have been recently diagnosed with osteoporosis of my spine.. Proud supporter frm South Africa
Hi Rachel,
Welcome!
@@Dr_DougLucas Thank u....It's good to know the Great Lengths taken whilst having the Patient interest at Heart..May u be Blessed...for parting with Knowledge...not ALL Drs will Do what u are doing.Keep up the good work .GodBless u with more Wisdom and Knowledge
@@rachelrajbunsi2871 Thank you!
Non industry funded studies w/lower bias risk hard to find. BMD not always direct relation to fractures. I’m not convinced on the machines yet.
I agree and discuss frequently the disparate improvement of fracture risk and BMD. However, if BMD is improving with natural metabolic health (without drugs) we may be able to assume that fracture risk is decreasing. Doing a long enough study to show that would be expensive and is unlikely to be done. We do what we can with what we have.
Thank you. Have you found any good studies using a rebounder?
Checkout my video called "Bounce Your Way to Bone Health? Mini-Trampolines vs Agility Training for Osteoporosis.What's better?"
That belt machine from the '60s is what I thought of!! My mom rented one of those for awhile. It didn't do anything except take up space. 😂
Yes haha!
Let me add that to avoid falls really few tools can be better than rebounder ,and you can find inexpensive models and have a lot of fun .
For fall prevention they are helpful!
I use a bosu ball squats a b d squat holds and calf raises. Black side up i also incorporate weights held at my sides. 30 # each.
Thanks for sharing this!
I put my vibration plate inside my Walker. I am on a cane now progressing to tossing it. I am doing 4 miles/day intermittently outside or in JH HS halls where I substitute ( retired teacher) 81 years I bought the book. I broke my femur stem had anterior hip surgery pronounced osteoporotic two weeks later with DEXA. I still have my brain and not diabetic good health athletic . Am going up hills said to replace sprints. I am healing the replacement now but in May plan the drops marching going to osteoporosis clinic at UAB where my surgeon practices. Also Carnivore eating high protein. On Alendronate. Doing all I can.
Thank you for sharing your story, I appreciate your support. It sounds like you could benefit from attending the next free bone foundations masterclass session. You can find details and register on this page if you are interested --> www.optimalbonehealth.com/bone-foundations-master-class
Stating this page cannot be found!
the question I can't find and answer for: is does it only work on lower body. The studies always measure femoral neck or spine. What about upper body? when you lose or increase bone density is it body wide or specific to the body part being exercised? Great video, love the explanation of scientific papers.
Great question! Checkout our health span nation if you have not yet, you get exclusive access to me and a community of people pursuing health and longevity. These are things that we discuss in there and it allows us to go into detail rather than doing short chats through this platform. You can find more information here --> www.drdouglucas.com/healthspan
Would be interested to know your thoughts on OsteoStrong exercise machine.
Hi! Checkout my video called "The Best Exercise for Osteoporosis"
Thank you for your detailed videos. I have watched many on Osteoporosis as I have been diagnosed with Osteopenia and Osteoporosis in the hip Femur neck. My issue is with any exercise as I have a condition called Hydroxyapetite Deposition Disease (HADD) and cannot walk around for more than 20 minutes before pain stops me. So I spend most of my days reclining on the bed. I do need to move muscles and bones & thought this may be the answer. What would you think. Thanking you in advance for any reply. Cheers.
Hi Ron,
Conditions that limit mobility can be a challenge for bone health. I don't currently have any patients with the same or similar disease so I can't say I have made recommendations specifically to this disease. I would ask the specialists in your arena what they think about vibration and go from there.
Dr Doug
I did the vibration bf I was diagnosed with osteoporosis. I also fell and broke my femur stem bf I took it. I am on Alendronate. 81 years learning to walk without cane after anterior hip replacement in July can do around Basketball court without can.e.Still doing therapy with exercise and electric stimulation. On Celebrex 200 2X and 81 aspirin for positional pain. Do exercise resistance and high protein. Everything you suggest in supplements.
It sounds like you are on the right path. Thank you for sharing your story!
If you’re looking for a more recent article review on the benefits of vibration therapy there’s one in Osteoporosis International Published: 25 October 2022 on the
Effectiveness of whole-body vibration on bone mineral density in postmenopausal women: a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials.
Thank you for sharing this!
Can you please cite the studies you’re referring to? Thank you!
Hi Adriana,
The video includes a screen shot of the study titles and authors. I have included them below for your review.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26327887/
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17074485/
And one more I didn't include for brevity sake.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15040822/
Enjoy :)
I have Lifepro 4D Rumblex, which has Oscillation, pulsation, and lateral. When you mentioned frequency of 35-40 Hz, is it pulsation? Only Pulsation has the frequencies that close to this range. At level 1, it 27.0 Hz, level 15, 30.1 Hz and max level 60, it's 40.0Hz based on the datasheet they gave me. On the other hand, the Oscillation at level1 only has 5.7Hz and at level 60 10.3Hz. The Lateral at level 1 has 6.3 Hz and level 60 at 8.7Hz. I don't have amplitude data. What do you think using all Oscillation, pulsation, and lateral? Or suggestions on how to use them? I don't have trouble balancing on it. I just want to optimize my health, including bone health. I haven't used it often after I saw potential damage of retina and I don't know how to determine whether it's safe for retina. I was also told by the manufacture that the unit I have is 2g, vs Marodyne Liv (researched to be effective and safe) is 0.4g. Do you think it could be a problem?
Great question.
I have only seen the potential risk to the retina. I have never seen any parameters around when to be concerned, and at what levels. My guess is that the risk is real but the likelihood of occurring is probably low. I wish I had more to go off of.
Thanks for your videos on osteoporosis. I am diabetic and recently diagnosed with osteoporosis. Will the vibration plate be safe for me?
Hi, I can't say specifically for you but we do have diabetic patients who use a vibration plate. We would have to know more about you or you would have to ask your medical team to be sure for you.
Please provide references for cited studies. Thanks.
They should be in the description.
I have osteoporosis in the hips and I am considering purchasing the: Marodyne Liv, if I can get it on sale. I do have osteopenia in the lumbar spine and read if I put a 4 pound weight in a backpack and walk the neighborhood for 20 minutes 5 times a week, that would increase the density of the lumbar spine. Thoughts? Thank You. P.S. Love all your videos
Hello,
Thank you! Whole Body Vibration seems to positively impact bone health. We have a video on that if you haven't seen it! The weighted vest makes sense too although the literature is not as supportive as I would expect. I think this is probably more due to study design than lack of benefit.
Very interesting. To take it to the next level, are there any studies on jumping or dancing in relation to bone health?
Hello,
None that I have found yet! Let me know if you see any.
@@Dr_DougLucas Another one pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16758141/
@@Dr_DougLucas Sorry one more pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24460005/
I'lm lucky enough to have a adjustable bed (for residential use. Not a hospital bed) that ALSO 'vibrates'. I don't use it that often except when my back hurts particularly bad. I can use it if either or both ends are raised, or flat, and both the upper body and lower body has separate controls, and 3 speeds. Not sure if 'vibrating' in bed (please, no 'cheap hotel' jokes) is as good as a Vibration Plate, but I'm going to try it anyway, and start using my vibration settings more often. I do have balance problems, Osteropenia, circulation problems and back pain. Wish me luck!😁
Thank you for sharing this!
I think part of the vibration working is due to your muscles trying to keep you in place. It might not work as well on a bed…. Just my science thoughts on this idea.
Just saw your video and I am now a subscriber. I do have a question about rebounding using mini trampoline. I was told it’s good for osteoporosis. My question is is it safe for osteoporotic bones? Thank you
Hello,
Thank you for subscribing!
We have a rebounding video coming out soon. Short answer is, there is limited research and the benefits are not as good as I would have thought. Clearly there is risk of falling off the trampoline! Doesn't make my top 10 list of modalities!
@@Dr_DougLucas Really! I bought a Bellicon a couple of years ago for the health benefits (and should use it more often); I'm disappointed to hear this.
@@SusanBamesorry to burst your bubble but knowing is better!
I have looked into the life pro Rumblex which looks promising. I have had a repaired torn retina for many years ago and I’m wondering if renters are affected by the very low intensity machines
I think it’s possible. I’d reach out to the manufacturer to see what they say.
Thanks for this information. I'm 54 and have been diagnosed with osteopenia, and have just been given a WBV machine. My concern is that I had a trimalleolar fracture with dislocation just over a year ago and have wiring and a plate in my ankle. A quick google search suggests that WBV could be risky for the hardware, and I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts if you have time. Thanks :)
Interesting question. I always let my patients use the devices but you should ask your surgeon.
Also, I’m interviewing Dr Rubin soon to get some additional thoughts on that!
Dr. Doug Lucas, I'd like to hear your thoughts on studies indicating that low-frequency whole-body vibration may hasten cartilage degeneration, while high frequency might lead to disorganized and misaligned collagen fibers. Some of the studies I saw include Cheryle Séguin et al. (2015), Wang et al. (2023), and Keller et al. (2014).
I'm interviewing Dr Rubin from Marodyne in a few weeks. I'll be sure to ask this question!
I’m looking forward to you sharing your interview with Dr. Rubin here on your channnel.@@Dr_DougLucas
What luck I can across this video. I am a big fan of vibration plates. If you use these things, plus keep your calorie intake to 1200 cals per day, you will lose one KG a week. I had a quite painful right arm today, the biceps, elbow, and triceps were weak and painful. After doing my daily session, I knelt in front of the machine and leant on it and vibrated my arms, so to speak, just to exercise my arms a bit, and that made the pains in my arm go away. How good that was, I learnt something. I do kneel before the machine, and have a mini barbell and bicycle arm guards on elbows, and do arm curls. That is a good exercise, and weights later. Anyways, good health to all. Before I go, I did see one video, of 'scientists' do a series. They had big ladies on some plates, their feet were almost together, and they wondered why nothing happened. I bet they still had big meals.
hi there. Thanks for your feedback. WBV can help with weight loss in the right scenario. My wife Dr Ashley Lucas uses them in her company PHD Weight Loss and Nutrition.
Thanks for your informative video. Would lying on your side and using resistance bands to do leg lifts, help strengthen the hip?
Strengthen muscles? Yes. Bones? Probably not.
@@Dr_DougLucas Thanks!
Resistance exercises have been proven to help improve bone strength and density. Osteoporosis organisations all recommend weight bearing and resistance exercises as the muscle action strengthens nearby bones.
@@wandayonder9772 Thanks! That's what I thought too. I figured resistance bands can put stress on the bones to help build bone.
@@faitht3643 that's it!
I have one and do 15 minutes every day. I might try adding 15 minutes 3 times a week. I need to do things consistently or I put off too many days in a row. I also can’t stand for much more than 15 minutes at a time. I have flat feet and they hurt very badly. I also have a fused ankle from a car accident. If I miss too many days in a row when I get back to doing it my legs itch intensely. I think that’s the lymph system starting to back up. I’m also 78 years old so I always have a chair reversed to hold on to.
Thank you for sharing this. It sounds like you could benefit from our next free bone foundations masterclass if you have not attended one before. You can find details at this link--> www.optimalbonehealth.com/bone-foundations-master-class
I've heard some concern about people who have screws in their bones from previous fractures, that the vibrations could potentially 'unscrew' these screws over time.
As an orthopedic surgeon myself I don't worry about screws from fractures, or plates or "pins." Having taken those devices out after fractures heal I can tell you that those screws are buried in bone and aren't going anywhere. If they are loose they could back out but if they are loose they should probably be taken out. Of course, as your surgeon if vibration is right for you!
Wish he had mentioned if the use is possible with a hip resurfacing or other contraindications…spinal stenosis?
Hi there. For hip resurfacing talk to your surgeon. Spinal stenosis will depend on severity and should be discussed with your team.
Hello ,Just saw this video and liked it.I have osteoporosis and also Cerbral palsy or right side that I have had since birth. I am 63 years old and I walk 5mile 5 to 6 time a week.I would like to improve my balance all over but my right side more.Also improve muscle in legsWondering if this would work.Does this have a bar to hold on to or is it just the platform?
Some devices have a bar but some don't. Look deep into what you can tolerate before investing!
Which one of the Powerplate machines do you recommend? I can't afford an expensive one. I'm totally confused as to the speed and which one to get!
I've got some interviews and new videos on this topic coming up soon! Stay tuned.
Is there a comparison involving a rebounder too ? The first time I rebounded, I rebounded only for a few minutes. When I got off, I felt like I was still moving. After a few more times, I don't get that sensation any more. So my balance improved (?). But it did give me a backache and I have to stop for weeks ( but maybe it improved my hips, back bone density...)
Hi,
I made a video on this topic. You can find it here.
th-cam.com/video/cavJ58MR3Qk/w-d-xo.html
Short answer is the literature doesn't strongly support bone growth but it does help with balance and strength. Those are good for reducing fall risk as well!
Dr. Lucas, could you please comment on the low-intensity vibrarion platforms like Juvent and Marodyne LIV, both designed by Clinton Rubin PhD. SUNY Distinguished Professor Director, Center for Biotechnology · Musculoskeletal Research Laboratory. They have .3-.4 g and 30-37 Hz.
Take a look at our new video coming out with Dr Rubin. I interviewed him recently and this video will be made available soon. Subscribe and sign up for notifications so you don’t miss it!
I have had a successful left hip replacement and will soon have the right done. I have osteopenia in my spine and hips. Do you think a WBV board will useful to me? Or will the agitation and titanium hips not be a good mix?
You’ll have to ask your surgeon. I think it would be helpful for your bones but they get final say over your implants!
Can i do a study?? I’m 61 with neurophy.. would love to try this
Great question! Checkout our health span nation if you have not yet, you get exclusive access to me and a community of people pursuing health and longevity. These are things that we discuss in there and it allows us to go into detail rather than doing short chats through this platform. You can find more information here --> www.drdouglucas.com/healthspan
Is there a more economical option other than Marodyne? thank you
Depends on what you are looking for. Marodyne has it’s own protocols which are unique to Marodyne however lots of other companies with similar but different to some degree machines. I have a new video coming out soon on this topic.
I saw a video on youtube of one guy doing BFR (blood flow restriction ) exercises with weight on the vibration plate ! That looked wonderful,looks can grow lean muscle mass and bone density in one exercise,what do you think about it?
BFR is great but not needed for the vast majority of people. Unless someone has already maxed out benefits with easier to perform activities I don’t recommend them.
Dr.: What is the price for your master class and how are the videos delivered?
Our Bone Foundations Masterclass is completely free. It is a live session that Is done through zoom. You can find further details here --> www.optimalbonehealth.com/bone-foundations-master-class
What would be your advice on using this if you have experienced fractures recently (feb 23) as a result of a road traffic accident I fractured C1 and 2 T 3,4,5 and tibia plateau I have osteoporosis in the spine this month at -3.5 (also osteoarthritis in the other knee)😮
You'd have to chat with your surgeon/ortho doc and see if you are healed enough for it. Once healed it would be great.
Hi Dr. Lucas, I have -2.5 in my femoral necks. I'm only 59 and otherwise in good shape and have good balance. What do you think about using the vibration plate with a weighted vest? And what about at a higher hz setting?
Hi there. Based on those numbers alone I wouldn't think there would be an issue. I have not used the two modalities together or seen any studies on them combined.
Makes sense though
How long would it take to start seeing improvement of osteopenia in hips doing exercises and wearing ankle weights?
Hello,
I wouldn't recommend ankle weights! I think they are too unnatural and not adding appreciable weight in the correct direction. With a comprehensive program we see improvements in 6 months. Exercise alone requires high intensity to see benefits alone. Even then the benefits are subtle.
Thete are several WBV boatds out there, how do you know which is best to invest into? Some are $100 to thousand dollars.Would like info on products as well. concerning
Marodyne and PowerPlate are the two companies we recommend. They are similarly priced. I think in this space you get what you pay for.
My understanding is that the Low Intensity Vibration (LIV) is the safer option and I have tried it. Unfortunately there was not the benefit that I had hoped for. I'm very active and intend to increase my resistance training. Any other suggestions in light of chronic rheumatoid arthritis which I know is a significant risk factor? I'm also resuming wearing a weight vest and/or belt.
MJ K,
Those are all great ideas. Consider joining our masterclass for more recs or use a local trainer/therapist to help. I can't give specific recs through this platform.
What do you mean… “…in light of chronic rheumatoid arthritis which I know is a significant risk factor?”
Significant risk factor for what?
@@AlphaGeekgirl not sure your question. I’d that from the video?
@@AlphaGeekgirl chronic rheumatoid arthritis is a significant risk factor for bone loss.
What's your thoughts on commercial pemf for osteoporosis?
Great question! Checkout our health span nation if you have not yet, you get exclusive access to me and a community of people pursuing health and longevity. These are things that we discuss in there and it allows us to go into detail rather than doing short chats through this platform. You can find more information here --> www.drdouglucas.com/healthspan
I’m using my vibration plate as I’m watching this.
That's great!!
I have axial spa not sure if I can use this? My pelvic bones hurt so much
Thank you for sharing this, unfortunately I cannot provide specific recommendations through this platform, I would need to know a little bit more about you as well. Checkout our health span nation if you have not yet, you get exclusive access to me and a community of people pursuing health and longevity. You can find more information here --> www.drdouglucas.com/healthspan
Someone being monitored yearly for a potential ascending aortic aneurysm, will these vibrational therapy devices affect adversely?
Ask your medical team. I haven't seen any evidence on this topic.
I ordered the LifePro Rumblex 4D, for $460. I use the Pulsation mode - if I understand this right, it is set at 1.5 mm Amplitude. The speed settings go from 1-60, which I believe correlate to Frequency, ranging from 4 to 40 Hz. So I usually set it at a speed of 15. I use it for 10 to 12 minutes per day. This is a considerable savings in the cost of the unit. What do you think - is this within the range for frequency and amplitude for improving bone health? Any way, it seems to be helping. I can't wait to get my next Dexa scan, to see if there is a change.
Let us know!
@barba7741 any updates on your Dexa scan?
What about EMS (electro muscular stimulation) training
Also a great Question. We discuss things like this in Healthspan nation as well, this way we can chat back and forth. You can find more information here --> www.drdouglucas.com/healthspan
Is a massage gun safe? Not on bones, directly, of course. But even spine adjacent? Thank you.
Hi Camilla,
I'm not familiar with any studies looking at these modalities. I would think so but cannot be certain and cannot give you direct advice on the topic.
Dr. Douglas, thank you so much for this. Do you have any specific recommendation for improving spine bone density/ health? Is t-score at -3.5 safe to be using these devices?
Hi Joanne,
The research that I listed included patients with T-scores as low as yours. That said, T-score is only part of the strength equation. Proper alignment should protect an osteoporotic spine on a vibration plate and low settings should allow use. Safety and no fracture can never be promised and what we tell our patients is that you have to start somewhere. The traditional recommendations to limit lifting to 5lbs and don't stress your spine will help prevent fracture but not help build bone. It's difficult to know what the threshold is for fracture but start easy, light and move up from there with proper form. Using an in person or at least one on one virtual consult with a trained provider can help.
Spine seems to respond from upper body loading. Resistance training that puts force through the spine. Studies like LIFTMORE show benefit in spine BMD.
I hope that helps!
I have suffered from bouts of BVVP (inner ear crystals) I don’t think I could risk this therapy.
Possibly not! I've heard that before.
Would like to know if I am a candidate for this kind of therapy. I am 73 with hip osteoporosis and spinal osteopenia. I have atherosclerosis and had two stents put in my left leg 5 months ago. Is atherosclerosis contraindicated for this type of therapy?
It’s not but I would verify with your surgeon or radiologist about the stents.