04:23 subtitles are quite biased, what hero said about protoss is more closer to: "The continued performance of protoss from not only katowice but also a lot more tournaments may suggest that there might be a balance issue, but I do not think the gap is insurmountable". herO very obviously hints that he thinks protoss is currently underpowered, not the other way around
I believe that the Protoss' biggest problem is the excessive cost of the units which, despite their cost, lose value as the game continues. If you make a mistake in reading the opponent's intentions, you will hardly recover. The Terrans have too many shenanigans at their disposal and against the Zerg it is literally a race against time
@@Trattato68Very much so. Gateway units fall off so hard into the late game. But you still have to invest in them because higher tier Protoss units take so long to build, once destroyed in battle you need to quickly reinforce with gateway units if not you're dead. More so, high tier Protoss units are easily hard countered. It's very hard to switch tech because you have already invested heavily into one tech, like multiple robos or multiple stargates. And then you also had to build robobay and fleet beacon for upgrades and tier 3 units. Zerg for example can just build a single tech building and they can mass produce tech units from hatcheries and larvaes. They can also upgrade from the same building. This is why Zerg can play reactional, by scouting and immediately counter play. Protoss have to commit into one tech tree, if being scouted and countered, they are forces to all in or defend really hard until they can tech switch. Also, Protoss units lose value really quickly when countered. Colossus are trash if there are Vikings or Corruptors out. Even after you lose all your colossus and stop building them. Vikings can still land to harass or fight, Corruptors can pee on buildings or morph to Broodlords to counter ground troops. Even if you have splash against MMM, they can always buy time by splitting and do multi prong drops since Protoss units are slow and weak when split. This is why most Protoss players depend on timings attacks to win. They have to try and hide their builds to make their attack works. If they fail, it's an uphill battle into the late game.
@@Jeff-fc7nf Try Zerg : you have 14 units but 6 are really useful. May be they should reduce all units to 6-7 by race (except for Terrans otherwise they'll cry)
If he ever learned how to wall off properly and learned to use control groups and not just F2 move his army he might finally get his breakthrough. It’s annoying watching such a talented player constantly lose because of the most basic mistakes.
The problem is that gateway units don't scale. Every other race has tier one units, mostly mineral sinks, that scale into the lategame. 3/3 for marines is such a massive dps increase, adrenal for zerglings, again, massive boost in dps, with breakpoints on damage that permit banelings at +3 melee to mash a poorly controlled army. Protoss gateway units are absolutely trash in the lategame, meaning they are entirely reliant on their gas heavy tech units which they cannot replace effectively. A Terran army trades out 50 supply of marines on five bases? Who cares, they probably killed three disruptors, a colossus, and at least sniped the observer and sentries before they went down. You traded minerals for gas and your ten rax put you at remax within the build time of a single reactored pair of marines. Cracklings are even worse, 20supply of lings go destroy an entire mineral line and nexus on a backstab and wipe out all the static defense on a back stab, literally control shift clicked without any apm needed. And you can just keep doing it. The protoss has to dedicate a pair of high templar with storm to each outlying base to stop it, which pulls them out of microing the fights to achieve the backstab defense. Zealots? They're trash. Chargelots are bad units at 200 supply, they're absolutely terrible. Adepts do nothing beyond 100 supply. DT's, especially after the blink nerf, do almost nothing and they're expensive as hell. Stalkers are the most expensive, micro intensive way to lose a late game that there is. Four lurkers or three siege tanks are enough to push 20-30 supply of blink stalkers off a push without something to clear the siege units. Sentries can't fight. They're great support units, but they don't win fights. So, in my mind, while Protoss tech units are fine and all, the other races have equivalent, if not superior tech units in the ghost and vipers, but the difference is that gateway units are not competitive with the other race's counterparts. Zealot charge should still deal upfront bonus damage, the way that they used to, it was one of the worst changes in SC2 history that nobody talks about.
Protoss is basically on a timer against zerg and terran. These gateway units are so trash that they need to put so much pressure in the early to mid-game in order to keep the game winnable/playable.
Brother, I've been saying it for YEARS. You fix a lot of Protoss' problems at the pro level by giving them back the Zealot charge damage. Zealots are and always have been the unspoken backbone of the Protoss army. I could write an essay on this. MAKE ZEALOTS GREAT AGAIN!
Literally this. Zerg and Terran players twist themselves into pretzels making excuses as to why Protoss is failing. Protoss units were completely over-nerfed and Zealots are trash.
buff ground weapons/armour level 3. Make their armour stronger so expensive toss units don't get totally destroyed by cheap units such as zerlings, marines etc. Level 3 upgrades only affect late game when the gateway units are absolutely thrash vs the correspondent units for zerg/terrain. Fully upgraded zerlings (cheapest unit in the game) destroys easily every toss unit and it requires a very high end toss army to stop them. Storm is useless against the majority of units and HT movement is too slow
I LOVE TERRAN! I hate Zerg with a passion. And I absolutely agree with this statement. One other thing I find ridiculous is the Protoss lack of mobile healing. That 1hp colossus of yours is forever at 1hp until it dies.
@ScallywagYTtv too expensive as a dane to travek. Not only esport but sport in general have bad support inside Denmark. Hard to make a living from sponsors unless you immigrate and even if he would win tax and vat eat it all up.
i love how he is dude all pro know it Serral what is the debate about :D of course it wouldn’t count for Artosis since it coming out of a Protoss mouth.
as we all know, Protoss have no mouths. maybe that's why Arty treats them this way? he just can't respect a guy that he can't passionately kiss on the mouth after a hard day of Brood War
Bottom line is, results alone Artosis made a logical, sound, factual evidence based proposal vs what people feel emotionally. Definitely I think if Serral had more wins under his belt and was dominating then it would be obvious and you couldn't argue it. But you can't just think someone's the best without the same results as the literal best based off evidence.
@@kizzagaming6523 nobody has been as dominant as Serral. He takes tournaments and drops a single map. People love to say Maru but Serral crushes him. I don't think he has a losing record against anyone. Maybe I misread your meaning.
Artosis is brilliant for his stance. What does someone like Arty want most? Interest and discussions on star craft. It is not an interesting discussion if everyone just says it is Serral. An example for me is in the NHL, Connor McDavid is clearly the best player in the game right now but I would gladly argue for a guy like Nathan MacKinnon being the best. Like I would take McD over Mac if I had the choice but life isn't black and white so a guy like Mac does have good reasoning to be mentioned. So it turns into an interesting discussion on the importance of a player, the weight of individual/team success and so many other things.
@@tttpods Actually if you look at the data, when Serral didn't participate these past 3-4 months, Zerg had unfavorable % winrate in pro level vs Terran and Protoss. To say Serral is only good because zerg is op only says what a noob you are. The best GSL players praise him not for the race he plays, but for his mechanics, reactions and understanding of the game.
@@SirCanuckelheadYou're giving Artosis way too much credit. He doesn't have good reasoning, he's just trying to hold onto his ideas. He knows he's wrong too but he will double down.
The thing I agree with artosis, is that sc2 at its most competitive level rogue is the goat because the gsls he won is actually worth more than maru's recent gsl wins. Also, rogue won more international tournaments and domestic tournament during peak sc2.
I've never played Starcraft but as someone who's purely watched it for awhile now I find Protoss to be the most entertaining race to watch. From my observation Protoss struggles due to certain interactions in the game. Their inability to heal means they get these big massive shields but against Terran that is irrelevant due to 1 EMP just wiping out half the army's health and then siege tanks having the AOE to burst them all down. Or Vikings being able to attack Collosus. Against Zerg it feels like once the Mothership comes out it should be a game changer but due to how easy Vipers can just yoink them without any risk just means this game changing unit is useless. Also Corruptors being able to attack Collosus is also an issue. Corruptors in general seem to be a massive issue for Protoss and makes it impossible for them to obtain air superiority. It's just too easy to remax on Corruptors. Also time being a resource in Starcraft means that them having to use their Robotics Facility to make Observers to see stealth units means they can't pump out more valuable units as efficiently as the other races can. And with how easy Observers are to snipe Protoss is constantly having to replace them which is time they could be using in that structure to build another Immortal or Collosus. Lastly I feel like Protoss really falls victim to early game harrassment more than the other 2 races do. Zerglings and Reapers just come out way faster since you just need 1 structure built and those 2 races can build that 1 structure immediately without waiting. Protoss has to build a Pylon before anything else. They cannot build anything before that. Then they have to build the Gateway then they can finally build their first unit. Yes pros have got good enough to not lose Probes that often but they lose so much mining time in the early game and mining time in the early game is worth way more than mining time in the late game. I don't know if it would make sense to have Protoss spawn with a Pylon built next to the Nexus to give them an option for a early gateway but it's an idea. They would still likely like to build a Pylon at the ramp to make a wall but having one at the start next to the Nexus gives the option to use it at least. This being said I do thing something Pros do is focus a lot on Disruptors. I feel at the highest level this unit is just too much of a coinflip unit. Yes if you land that game changing god shot you can win a fight. But at the highest level they are too good at spliting or focusing the Disruptor firing the shot that these god shots are just too uncommon and they would be better off getting another Immortal or something. Often times they are only killing 1 or 2 units with a Disruptor shot and often times it's not even 1 or 2 valuable units and I feel they would get better value from an Immortal. I guess if there's 1 change I would make to Protoss a little better it would be letting the Disruptor shot still go off if the unit dies.
It seems like you might be discounting shield batteries/battery overcharge when it comes to Protoss being unable to heal (plus shields recovering over time in general). That being said, no one's going to disagree that Ghosts are a very strong unit. Protoss in general feels like it excels when it has a balanced unit composition, a perfectly composed/balanced Protoss deathball has basically no real counter and only loses to being outplayed in other ways. In your examples, Corrupters are very weak vs storms and archons, but yes, fighting them in the air is a mistake. Also you seem to be forgetting that Terran have to build a supply depot before a barracks, just the same as a Protoss. And unless they're 12 pooling, Zerg builds overlords before a spawning pool, so I'm not sure exactly what your point about Pylons is. The value of disrupters isn't the perfect shot, it's the threat of the perfect shot. No other unit can completely change the way your opponent plays quite so dramatically. That being said, they can look really bad when things go poorly so I understand where you're coming from.
@@willieherman504 What I meant by Terran building a Barracks is that they don't have to wait for the Depot. They can build it before the Depot or even during the building of a Depot. Even if you Chrono the first gateway a Terran's Reaper will walk across the map and hit long before the first Gateway unit comes out. A Protoss army is unstoppable except when an EMP drops and just completely wipes out half the HP. I just don't agree with this interaction. I would be fine if it did massive shield damage in an AOE but the fact that you can have level 3 shield and 1 EMP wipes out the army's HP pool is just so insane to me. You also mentioned Batteries and what not. The issue I have with these is that these are additional stationary things that you have to invest your money into. Protoss feels so naturally lacking in defense that they gave them extra things to use as defense but that's money you have to spend that the other 2 races don't. Their defensive options can be used offensively so if they win a skirmish they can use the same units to deal damage to the enemy. Protoss can't. And due to the fact that Terrans get Mules and Zerg get half the map for bases it means Protoss is usually always at a disadvantage in economy so having to spend extra money on things to defend with means if they ever fall behind they have no real way to come back. They have to continue investing in defense that can never be used as offense.[
@@howlingwolf5213 I don't know where you're betting that idea from my dude. You can't build a barracks until a supply depot is finished. Also I just hopped into an AI game to confirm timings, I rushed a reaper literally as soon as possible and the AI had a Zealot out before I got to their natural (around 2:25) and two Zealots before I had attacked a probe twice and this wasn't a big map so your concerns are just factually incorrect. And look, I'm a just a Diamond Zerg, so I also hate Ghosts, EMP is dumb, but I actually don't think it's the biggest problem compared to the fact that Protoss needs better scaling gateway units. A late game upgrade that doubles Zealot base HP or makes Stalkers attack faster, something like that. The extra minerals spent on batteries isn't really a problem with the way Protoss production works anyway. Minerals is basically never the issue and batteries are incredibly potent for their cost.
I feel like the balance issue around protoss is the overwhelming micro needed to push out equivalent value from your army. In theory, a computer playing against itself with all races with infinite APM would be a completely balanced game IMO, but computers are not humans. Think about it this way, terrans have a cheap 75/25 widow mine (so, same price as a zealot) that can wipe out 10 supply by itself, completely unattended. To clean them up takes tons of attention + detection. Siege tanks have a similar role in that you just place them somewhere and they push out extreme DPS, and you have to set up complicated zealot flanks to counter. Ghosts are completely broken against toss in that just one of them with minimal micro can instantly remove 40% of your HP and kill all your archons before the fight starts, AND remove all the energy from your templar (whose storm only does steady DPS and not instant damage), forcing you to keep templar in a prism that can also be sniped easily and forcing you to spend APM on it instead of your actual army. Maybe a good change would be to let templar autocast feedback to remove the coinflip aspect, or to make mines work like banelings - shoot once and die. PvZ is way more balanced than PvT, at least up to the end game, but there are still minor issues after that. lategame stargate units are mostly negated by vipers if you don't pay attention for a split second (goodbye two carriers worth 1400 resources), and better basic unit scaling. Lings in the late game are absolute cost effective monsters. They are the fastest unit in the game meaning, if you right click them on a mineral line, they cant really be killed by anything unless your opponent willingly sacrifices them to buy time on another front, plus they can be burrowed which forces a lot of time with an observer to clear them. Stalkers are expensive glass cannons with a huge overkill issue compared to hydras, which means again tons of micro and making them basically useless for anything except sniping high value units like vipers or leftover infestors/lurkers. But if a clump if them gets hit with a fungal, goodbye 2k resources. Zealots are pretty good at killing workers or reinforcements, but in a real fight 2000 minerals of zealots just die to a few banelings, again- unless you spend an ungodly amount of APM splitting them or sniping the banes.
Basically AOE in this game is OP and zerg has the easiest and un-deniable access to them. Snipe and feedback used to balance this to some extent, but not anymore since the nerfs.
idk man, if u have infinite apm zerg probably will be the weakest race. Blink stalkers could be unstoppable and same goes for microing marines. I undestand that u could have perfect injects + perfec creep spread, but i think thats not enough.
@@ariancaviglia4778 Auto bane mines everywhere, burrow single roaches to mineral lines, spore and spine leapfrog which is free supply, brood lord support, infestor neural in the best possible timings, corruptor+viper squads to snipe detection, the list is long :)
herO is so calm and collected, and has fairly balanced thoughts about everything. Very respectable. He's not like many of the toss whiners nowadays who just constantly blaming the issue with Protoss on balance. He thinks what a reasonable person would think: the balance does not have big issues, and dwindling Protoss talent pool certainly is a problem. All the previous top Protoss players are retired (sOs, partinG, Zest) or just back from military service - which frankly just sets back a pro's career a lot. Rogue, TY, Stats, Innovation, Byun, Classic, they all failed to win big tournament after military service. Trap is just back. herO is in fact doing definitely better than everyone who's done military service, all 3 races included.
Frankly, I think it really comes down to the design of Protoss as a race. On ladder (masters - low GM) and in the amateur/minor tournament scene, it performs very well - its build orders are the easiest to execute, but almost always focused around some sort of timing that only works if the opponent isn't quite prepared for it. Below the very highest level, players are very frequently making mistakes against these timings - either failing to scout them, misidentifying them, or simply responding incorrectly due to some misguided thought on what the correct response is (eg: going Hydras vs a carrier transition instead of making a spire, or committing to an attack even though Protoss is in its power window in TvP instead of playing around current the tech/army situation). As the game progresses, vision becomes a huge problem for Protoss compared to the other races - Terran has scans, and Zerg has changelings to freely/easily get vision practically anywhere on the map. Revelation range is so short, and Oracle vision range is so short that there's only a 1 range leeway between an Oracle spotting an enemy army and being able to drop a revelation and it dying to vikings/being abducted. Similarly, Observers are made of paper, and aren't particularly fast + cost 75 gas. While they're fine for getting vision in the mid-game, once the opponent has their own detection and anti-air online, Observers aren't really usable for the purpose. Obs and Oracles also both cost supply, whereas Overseers and Orbitals do not, which means Protoss needs to dedicate supply for vision/detection, while Zerg and Terran do not. This makes it much harder for Protoss to keep track of the enemy army to keep their own army in the right place to avoid getting caught out as the game progresses, and doing so usually means bleeding out units - the best of which for scouting having a high gas cost. The more limited nature of their detection also means they can't as reliably have detection where/when they need it. When you get to the very best players, those mistakes that lead to Protoss wins with their timings get less and less common - the ease of Protoss build orders gets less relevant at that very highest level, and players are better at dealing with the gimmicks that give protoss an edge below that. So you get to those 40-45% overall PvT/PvZ win rates among the top 8 or so players of each race (even if you exclude Serral/Maru/HerO as outliers due to being the top performers of each race). -In PvZ, there's always something you can look at on the Zerg side leading to the loss - usually some sort of composition/transition mistake, where they either didn't scout what the Protoss was doing correctly, or didn't react to it properly - this is why Serral never loses series to Protoss players: He's always on top of his scouting and almost never makes the wrong response/doesn't overcommit to aggression when the Protoss is able to defend it. The blink stalker pressure that's currently the meta at the top level often falls completely flat vs ling-hydra/ling-heavy compositions - it only works well vs Roach/ravager compositions that lack the DPS/mobility to overpower the stalker shield regen/blink micro, so if the Zerg correctly identifies that the Protoss is going blink, and starts pumping lings + waits for enough to crush the fight (instead of running in with small groups and bleeding out units for free while trying to delay) they can often completely overwhelm it. - In PvT, there's a bit of a back and forth, where Protoss has an edge in the early game due to the mobility of stalkers + shield regen + batteries letting them defend effectively (Batteries are basically the same thing as bunkers), but once Terran hits critical mass with stim, the game flips heavily into the Terran's favor, then back towards the Protoss once they have splash, then back towards Terran when they get their tech to respond, etc... In the post-late game, if the Terran is able to get there without bleeding out to harass or taking too much damage in the windows where Protoss had the edge, Terran is hugely advantaged because Protoss can't fight sky-terran effectively (though games very rarely reach that stage). Protoss armies that can actually fight are also slower than T/Z armies in the mid-game, and the units that do have mobility, like stalkers, get outscaled by basically everything due to things like poor damage points + slow projectiles, and a reliance on shield regen/gimmicks, or short range/overspecialization (in the case of zealots/adepts). Protoss relies on recall and warp-gate to compensate that lesser mobility of effective armies, which means positioning can be more forgiving, but if caught out by an army with the critical mass/DPS density to power through, Protoss very easily lose all of their key units, which is something that doesn't happen so easily to Terran or Zerg, because it's easier for them to retreat: if Protoss tries to chase, they can shave off the chasing gateway units while the tech units Protoss relies on for damage get left behind due to their slower speed. Early-mid game, protoss relies on warp-gate, blink, and the fast rate of shield regen to maintain any sort of aggression/pressure, but once the opponent gets critical mass of higher DPS units, it's much more difficult to get value out of them, and they lose value in the army. Zealots similarly are only really useful as a meatshield, when armies are small, or when in completely overwhelming numbers (That's after charge; pre-charge they're nothing but a meatshield). Frankly, Protoss needs some adjustment to design, to give them armies that are less reliant on "gimmicks" and scale better: 1. Reduce shield regen/nerf offensive warp ins to reduce the ability to snowball an advantage in the early-mid game (shield regen can be added back through a twilight council or maybe cyber-core upgrade). 2. A nerf to offensive warp ins by changing empowered pylon radius to be ~20 from nexus (basically an entire base area) and not also work with warp gates/prisms - this would give more time to respond to them, and slow down Protoss reinforcements across the map. The prism nerf was tested in the past, but didn't make it into the game. 3. make units more efficient in some way so they can scale better into the late game. 4. A rework to or complete removal of disruptors - because they're just a badly designed unit that nobody likes; their performance is dependent on the opponent's micro in an extreme way, which makes them depend on a critical mass to be effective depending on the opponent's skill - at the very top, players are often so good at dodging disruptors that they're often basically worthless until they're in too large of numbers to be able to dodge effectively, at which point, they completely dominate the ground fights. That situation is too binary. Making them much more reliable, but with less oppressive damage (eg: having radial splash, but a larger area/much shorter cooldown and/or much faster detonator that's much harder to avoid), would probably be better for the game - or they could just be removed entirely and replaced because they have too much overlap with storm and colossus. It wouldn't be a good idea to make disruptor drops too effective vs workers, and, short of making their damage not work or be heavily reduced vs worker units, I don't see a good way to avoid that with any design that otherwise would make their gameplay more healthy. 5. A change to tempest targeting logic so they don't overkill so much and/or a rework to voidrays so they can actually counter the units they're supposed to in the air (Corruptors, BCs - they currently lose to both). 6. A buff to feedback - either more range, lower energy cost, or more damage, or some combination thereof. It not killing enemy spellcasters and being so energy intensive is a bit much, when snipe can outright kill basically any spellcaster and EMP is AoE + Ghosts have cloak and are 40% faster + have a decently strong attack, no armor tag, and more total HP (Ghosts should be 3 supply...). 7. Maybe something to make it a bit easier to keep some ground tech units like colossus alive as the game progresses (eg: make Abduct not work vs massive units). Currently, colossus fall off extremely hard once their counters hit the field, and it's not like they dominate the ground regardless with how little DPS they have vs non-light units. 8. More range on Revelation/more vision radius for Oracles/observers (attach to obs speed upgrade or something), so they have more leeway between seeing an enemy and the chance to react/pull away - Protoss's vision tools are just worse than those of Terran or Zerg. This might actually be the biggest problem at the very top level, since it makes it more difficult for Protoss to make the right decisions with their army movement.
It’s difficult to balance the races and impossible to balance it for each player skill level. For example at bronze level play the terran might feel slightly overpowered but as you go up in player skill level the zerg might start to feel overpowered. It’s not just the potential power of each race but the ease of access and usage of each race to the player skill level. Imagine in theory if Protoss is by far much more powerful at it’s full potential but humanly impossible to manage to it’s full potential by the most pro player and then Zerg much weaker but easy to use. Two players of the same skill level will most likely have better odds as the Zerg especially in a long games since the stress level and difficulty of the Protoss player is much higher giving the Zerg player a huge advantage especially as time goes on. It’s not far from the truth. Zerg can expand and build units much faster and easier but at the expense of “weaker” units. The problem is that easily expanding and having more units faster is a better advantage than having stronger units. It also means that losing each unit is less significant to the zerg whereas the opposite is true for the opponent.
It's a bit of a catch 20 because Toss is weak so few people wanna play Toss and then there's few Toss pros and they can't really develop from each other like the other races
The issue I see with Protoss right now is it's late game vs Zerg. Zerg has been at the top for at least 2 or 3 years now. Also Zest, Stats, SOS, and even MC can't play due to military which is dumbasf. Maybe bring back the old chargelots not like it was so difficult to defend against
The answers all seem pretty vague. You should have made more follow-up questions and try to get more specifics out of him. Be more inquisitive in the future please.
herO is one of my favorite players in the game. I really like his style, and he also looks like a great guy. As for the "debate", it's not a debate since at least 2022, only Terran/Maru fanboys can't digest this fact even after the GOAT obliterated Maru multiple times in the grandest of stages without even sweating. Maru can't even take a single map from the GOAT, he is not even the best Terran at the moment, and he is not even on the same plane of existence as Serral. Maru being considered the GOAT by some is a joke, at best he is the most overrated player in the history of the game.
Neeb said that Hero is a strong player, he is just lazy in some of his micro and does not focus on managing his control units. But even if there are more strong protoss players, it wouldn't be enough to surpass zerg players in general. Recently in the asl, Dark just continuously backstabbing hero with lings and ultras to death. Dark is not even on his best form. We are in the Era where Zerg and terran are the only viable race in the top level.
you literally just watched a video where arguably the strongest player for the race/representative said that he thought the race was entirely viable at the top level, and there were two protos in gsl ro8 and now 1 in ro4. what are you on about?
@@StarcraftHistorian i like him too bro, dont get upset. But he has these constant sounds he makes, surely nothing to do with the light. And since when having any illness, if so, is somenthing to be ashamed of? He makes unusual sounds constantly and i wanna understand why, thats all. Whats the problem…
@@Salammaleicu there is (obviously) a language barrier, he is just acknowledging what is being said. Eastern languages have these small sounds of acknowledgement frequently throughout a conversation, it just doesnt sound right when applied to english. He also obviously doesnt speak the greatest (if any, I dont know if they just edited out the translation part but im assuming thats what happened) english, so he wouldnt know that. There are also parts where it looks like footage is cut which might make the verbal acknowledgements more frequent seeming
@@momoaa i thought about acknowledgement part at first, but there was alot of them. but yea, maybe its that, i wouldnt know. anyway, i said i like him, ill say again. i dont wanna upset nobody, he is a nice guy to me too. i also like him. sorry if anything. i only wanted to understand
@@Salammaleicu Yeah it was definitely a bit much, i noticed it too, my first guess was that he was on stimulants for the performance enhancement but after thinking about it a bit more, those other explanations were what i came to.
04:23 subtitles are quite biased, what hero said about protoss is more closer to: "The continued performance of protoss from not only katowice but also a lot more tournaments may suggest that there might be a balance issue, but I do not think the gap is insurmountable". herO very obviously hints that he thinks protoss is currently underpowered, not the other way around
Thanks for that, similar but very distinct difference there. Changes the meaning completely.
I believe that the Protoss' biggest problem is the excessive cost of the units which, despite their cost, lose value as the game continues. If you make a mistake in reading the opponent's intentions, you will hardly recover. The Terrans have too many shenanigans at their disposal and against the Zerg it is literally a race against time
Would be cool if Protoss had some more units to play with. Feels like their range of play is somewhat limited relative to the other races.
@@Trattato68Very much so. Gateway units fall off so hard into the late game. But you still have to invest in them because higher tier Protoss units take so long to build, once destroyed in battle you need to quickly reinforce with gateway units if not you're dead.
More so, high tier Protoss units are easily hard countered. It's very hard to switch tech because you have already invested heavily into one tech, like multiple robos or multiple stargates. And then you also had to build robobay and fleet beacon for upgrades and tier 3 units. Zerg for example can just build a single tech building and they can mass produce tech units from hatcheries and larvaes. They can also upgrade from the same building. This is why Zerg can play reactional, by scouting and immediately counter play. Protoss have to commit into one tech tree, if being scouted and countered, they are forces to all in or defend really hard until they can tech switch.
Also, Protoss units lose value really quickly when countered. Colossus are trash if there are Vikings or Corruptors out. Even after you lose all your colossus and stop building them. Vikings can still land to harass or fight, Corruptors can pee on buildings or morph to Broodlords to counter ground troops. Even if you have splash against MMM, they can always buy time by splitting and do multi prong drops since Protoss units are slow and weak when split.
This is why most Protoss players depend on timings attacks to win. They have to try and hide their builds to make their attack works. If they fail, it's an uphill battle into the late game.
@@Jeff-fc7nf Try Zerg : you have 14 units but 6 are really useful. May be they should reduce all units to 6-7 by race (except for Terrans otherwise they'll cry)
Hero I really respect him, humble and not ego driven, seems honest. May he make Protos shine ✨ once again.
If he ever learned how to wall off properly and learned to use control groups and not just F2 move his army he might finally get his breakthrough. It’s annoying watching such a talented player constantly lose because of the most basic mistakes.
@@Devillionaire LOL some silver player on TH-cam telling the best Protoss in the world how to play.
hero looks like such a great guy, thanks for the interview, really enjoyed it !
He seems so humble! Really cool to see an interview with him
The problem is that gateway units don't scale. Every other race has tier one units, mostly mineral sinks, that scale into the lategame. 3/3 for marines is such a massive dps increase, adrenal for zerglings, again, massive boost in dps, with breakpoints on damage that permit banelings at +3 melee to mash a poorly controlled army. Protoss gateway units are absolutely trash in the lategame, meaning they are entirely reliant on their gas heavy tech units which they cannot replace effectively.
A Terran army trades out 50 supply of marines on five bases? Who cares, they probably killed three disruptors, a colossus, and at least sniped the observer and sentries before they went down. You traded minerals for gas and your ten rax put you at remax within the build time of a single reactored pair of marines. Cracklings are even worse, 20supply of lings go destroy an entire mineral line and nexus on a backstab and wipe out all the static defense on a back stab, literally control shift clicked without any apm needed. And you can just keep doing it. The protoss has to dedicate a pair of high templar with storm to each outlying base to stop it, which pulls them out of microing the fights to achieve the backstab defense.
Zealots? They're trash. Chargelots are bad units at 200 supply, they're absolutely terrible. Adepts do nothing beyond 100 supply. DT's, especially after the blink nerf, do almost nothing and they're expensive as hell. Stalkers are the most expensive, micro intensive way to lose a late game that there is. Four lurkers or three siege tanks are enough to push 20-30 supply of blink stalkers off a push without something to clear the siege units. Sentries can't fight. They're great support units, but they don't win fights.
So, in my mind, while Protoss tech units are fine and all, the other races have equivalent, if not superior tech units in the ghost and vipers, but the difference is that gateway units are not competitive with the other race's counterparts. Zealot charge should still deal upfront bonus damage, the way that they used to, it was one of the worst changes in SC2 history that nobody talks about.
Protoss is basically on a timer against zerg and terran. These gateway units are so trash that they need to put so much pressure in the early to mid-game in order to keep the game winnable/playable.
Brother, I've been saying it for YEARS. You fix a lot of Protoss' problems at the pro level by giving them back the Zealot charge damage. Zealots are and always have been the unspoken backbone of the Protoss army.
I could write an essay on this.
MAKE ZEALOTS GREAT AGAIN!
Literally this. Zerg and Terran players twist themselves into pretzels making excuses as to why Protoss is failing. Protoss units were completely over-nerfed and Zealots are trash.
buff ground weapons/armour level 3. Make their armour stronger so expensive toss units don't get totally destroyed by cheap units such as zerlings, marines etc. Level 3 upgrades only affect late game when the gateway units are absolutely thrash vs the correspondent units for zerg/terrain. Fully upgraded zerlings (cheapest unit in the game) destroys easily every toss unit and it requires a very high end toss army to stop them.
Storm is useless against the majority of units and HT movement is too slow
I LOVE TERRAN! I hate Zerg with a passion. And I absolutely agree with this statement.
One other thing I find ridiculous is the Protoss lack of mobile healing. That 1hp colossus of yours is forever at 1hp until it dies.
Awesome!! Try interviewing MaxPax if you can :)
I would love to, will definitely make the effort to in the future!
Yeah ask him whenever he qualifies for an offline tournament, why all of a sudden he can't attend. Hahahaha 🤣
@@StarcraftHistorianI'm sure psistorm can help you with this, they have interviewed him on their channel alread
Maxpax would do that thing that they do in interviews to hide the identity of the person by blurring his face and giving him a voice synthesizer
@ScallywagYTtv too expensive as a dane to travek. Not only esport but sport in general have bad support inside Denmark. Hard to make a living from sponsors unless you immigrate and even if he would win tax and vat eat it all up.
Such a likeable guy, good insight.
Hero is such a humble player even at winning or lossing, thanks for this interview
There goes my herO
I would love to see a 1h30m interview with him!
i love how he is dude all pro know it Serral what is the debate about :D
of course it wouldn’t count for Artosis since it coming out of a Protoss mouth.
as we all know, Protoss have no mouths. maybe that's why Arty treats them this way? he just can't respect a guy that he can't passionately kiss on the mouth after a hard day of Brood War
@@kathorsees you scare me for a moment i was sure you were heading for Mario erotica.
Bottom line is, results alone Artosis made a logical, sound, factual evidence based proposal vs what people feel emotionally. Definitely I think if Serral had more wins under his belt and was dominating then it would be obvious and you couldn't argue it. But you can't just think someone's the best without the same results as the literal best based off evidence.
@@kizzagaming6523 nobody has been as dominant as Serral. He takes tournaments and drops a single map. People love to say Maru but Serral crushes him. I don't think he has a losing record against anyone. Maybe I misread your meaning.
@@kizzagaming6523 What are you talking about Serral as alot of premier if not the most win and alot tourment top 4
Thanks for this interview :D
Big brain in a big heart...Great Hero!
The hero we don't deserve but the one we need
Why don't we deserve it?
Even GSL players say Serral is the Goat. But Artosis still in denial.
Artosis is brilliant for his stance. What does someone like Arty want most? Interest and discussions on star craft. It is not an interesting discussion if everyone just says it is Serral.
An example for me is in the NHL, Connor McDavid is clearly the best player in the game right now but I would gladly argue for a guy like Nathan MacKinnon being the best. Like I would take McD over Mac if I had the choice but life isn't black and white so a guy like Mac does have good reasoning to be mentioned. So it turns into an interesting discussion on the importance of a player, the weight of individual/team success and so many other things.
Serral is only good because zerg is fucking OP
@@tttpods Actually if you look at the data, when Serral didn't participate these past 3-4 months, Zerg had unfavorable % winrate in pro level vs Terran and Protoss. To say Serral is only good because zerg is op only says what a noob you are. The best GSL players praise him not for the race he plays, but for his mechanics, reactions and understanding of the game.
@@SirCanuckelheadYou're giving Artosis way too much credit. He doesn't have good reasoning, he's just trying to hold onto his ideas. He knows he's wrong too but he will double down.
The thing I agree with artosis, is that sc2 at its most competitive level rogue is the goat because the gsls he won is actually worth more than maru's recent gsl wins. Also, rogue won more international tournaments and domestic tournament during peak sc2.
Thanks for the work you do. 👍👍
I've never played Starcraft but as someone who's purely watched it for awhile now I find Protoss to be the most entertaining race to watch. From my observation Protoss struggles due to certain interactions in the game.
Their inability to heal means they get these big massive shields but against Terran that is irrelevant due to 1 EMP just wiping out half the army's health and then siege tanks having the AOE to burst them all down. Or Vikings being able to attack Collosus.
Against Zerg it feels like once the Mothership comes out it should be a game changer but due to how easy Vipers can just yoink them without any risk just means this game changing unit is useless. Also Corruptors being able to attack Collosus is also an issue. Corruptors in general seem to be a massive issue for Protoss and makes it impossible for them to obtain air superiority. It's just too easy to remax on Corruptors.
Also time being a resource in Starcraft means that them having to use their Robotics Facility to make Observers to see stealth units means they can't pump out more valuable units as efficiently as the other races can. And with how easy Observers are to snipe Protoss is constantly having to replace them which is time they could be using in that structure to build another Immortal or Collosus.
Lastly I feel like Protoss really falls victim to early game harrassment more than the other 2 races do. Zerglings and Reapers just come out way faster since you just need 1 structure built and those 2 races can build that 1 structure immediately without waiting. Protoss has to build a Pylon before anything else. They cannot build anything before that. Then they have to build the Gateway then they can finally build their first unit. Yes pros have got good enough to not lose Probes that often but they lose so much mining time in the early game and mining time in the early game is worth way more than mining time in the late game. I don't know if it would make sense to have Protoss spawn with a Pylon built next to the Nexus to give them an option for a early gateway but it's an idea. They would still likely like to build a Pylon at the ramp to make a wall but having one at the start next to the Nexus gives the option to use it at least.
This being said I do thing something Pros do is focus a lot on Disruptors. I feel at the highest level this unit is just too much of a coinflip unit. Yes if you land that game changing god shot you can win a fight. But at the highest level they are too good at spliting or focusing the Disruptor firing the shot that these god shots are just too uncommon and they would be better off getting another Immortal or something. Often times they are only killing 1 or 2 units with a Disruptor shot and often times it's not even 1 or 2 valuable units and I feel they would get better value from an Immortal. I guess if there's 1 change I would make to Protoss a little better it would be letting the Disruptor shot still go off if the unit dies.
It seems like you might be discounting shield batteries/battery overcharge when it comes to Protoss being unable to heal (plus shields recovering over time in general). That being said, no one's going to disagree that Ghosts are a very strong unit.
Protoss in general feels like it excels when it has a balanced unit composition, a perfectly composed/balanced Protoss deathball has basically no real counter and only loses to being outplayed in other ways. In your examples, Corrupters are very weak vs storms and archons, but yes, fighting them in the air is a mistake. Also you seem to be forgetting that Terran have to build a supply depot before a barracks, just the same as a Protoss. And unless they're 12 pooling, Zerg builds overlords before a spawning pool, so I'm not sure exactly what your point about Pylons is.
The value of disrupters isn't the perfect shot, it's the threat of the perfect shot. No other unit can completely change the way your opponent plays quite so dramatically. That being said, they can look really bad when things go poorly so I understand where you're coming from.
@@willieherman504 What I meant by Terran building a Barracks is that they don't have to wait for the Depot. They can build it before the Depot or even during the building of a Depot. Even if you Chrono the first gateway a Terran's Reaper will walk across the map and hit long before the first Gateway unit comes out.
A Protoss army is unstoppable except when an EMP drops and just completely wipes out half the HP. I just don't agree with this interaction. I would be fine if it did massive shield damage in an AOE but the fact that you can have level 3 shield and 1 EMP wipes out the army's HP pool is just so insane to me.
You also mentioned Batteries and what not. The issue I have with these is that these are additional stationary things that you have to invest your money into. Protoss feels so naturally lacking in defense that they gave them extra things to use as defense but that's money you have to spend that the other 2 races don't. Their defensive options can be used offensively so if they win a skirmish they can use the same units to deal damage to the enemy. Protoss can't. And due to the fact that Terrans get Mules and Zerg get half the map for bases it means Protoss is usually always at a disadvantage in economy so having to spend extra money on things to defend with means if they ever fall behind they have no real way to come back. They have to continue investing in defense that can never be used as offense.[
@@howlingwolf5213 I don't know where you're betting that idea from my dude. You can't build a barracks until a supply depot is finished. Also I just hopped into an AI game to confirm timings, I rushed a reaper literally as soon as possible and the AI had a Zealot out before I got to their natural (around 2:25) and two Zealots before I had attacked a probe twice and this wasn't a big map so your concerns are just factually incorrect.
And look, I'm a just a Diamond Zerg, so I also hate Ghosts, EMP is dumb, but I actually don't think it's the biggest problem compared to the fact that Protoss needs better scaling gateway units. A late game upgrade that doubles Zealot base HP or makes Stalkers attack faster, something like that. The extra minerals spent on batteries isn't really a problem with the way Protoss production works anyway. Minerals is basically never the issue and batteries are incredibly potent for their cost.
herO is the G
What a class act! Love watching him play!
I feel like the balance issue around protoss is the overwhelming micro needed to push out equivalent value from your army. In theory, a computer playing against itself with all races with infinite APM would be a completely balanced game IMO, but computers are not humans.
Think about it this way, terrans have a cheap 75/25 widow mine (so, same price as a zealot) that can wipe out 10 supply by itself, completely unattended. To clean them up takes tons of attention + detection. Siege tanks have a similar role in that you just place them somewhere and they push out extreme DPS, and you have to set up complicated zealot flanks to counter. Ghosts are completely broken against toss in that just one of them with minimal micro can instantly remove 40% of your HP and kill all your archons before the fight starts, AND remove all the energy from your templar (whose storm only does steady DPS and not instant damage), forcing you to keep templar in a prism that can also be sniped easily and forcing you to spend APM on it instead of your actual army. Maybe a good change would be to let templar autocast feedback to remove the coinflip aspect, or to make mines work like banelings - shoot once and die.
PvZ is way more balanced than PvT, at least up to the end game, but there are still minor issues after that. lategame stargate units are mostly negated by vipers if you don't pay attention for a split second (goodbye two carriers worth 1400 resources), and better basic unit scaling. Lings in the late game are absolute cost effective monsters. They are the fastest unit in the game meaning, if you right click them on a mineral line, they cant really be killed by anything unless your opponent willingly sacrifices them to buy time on another front, plus they can be burrowed which forces a lot of time with an observer to clear them. Stalkers are expensive glass cannons with a huge overkill issue compared to hydras, which means again tons of micro and making them basically useless for anything except sniping high value units like vipers or leftover infestors/lurkers. But if a clump if them gets hit with a fungal, goodbye 2k resources. Zealots are pretty good at killing workers or reinforcements, but in a real fight 2000 minerals of zealots just die to a few banelings, again- unless you spend an ungodly amount of APM splitting them or sniping the banes.
Basically AOE in this game is OP and zerg has the easiest and un-deniable access to them. Snipe and feedback used to balance this to some extent, but not anymore since the nerfs.
Good write up. Explains big problems protoss has compared to the other races
idk man, if u have infinite apm zerg probably will be the weakest race. Blink stalkers could be unstoppable and same goes for microing marines. I undestand that u could have perfect injects + perfec creep spread, but i think thats not enough.
@@ariancaviglia4778 Auto bane mines everywhere, burrow single roaches to mineral lines, spore and spine leapfrog which is free supply, brood lord support, infestor neural in the best possible timings, corruptor+viper squads to snipe detection, the list is long :)
keep it up the good work man we support you
hero is the guy i really grew to like . i didn't like him a few years back , i love him today .
herO is so calm and collected, and has fairly balanced thoughts about everything. Very respectable. He's not like many of the toss whiners nowadays who just constantly blaming the issue with Protoss on balance. He thinks what a reasonable person would think: the balance does not have big issues, and dwindling Protoss talent pool certainly is a problem. All the previous top Protoss players are retired (sOs, partinG, Zest) or just back from military service - which frankly just sets back a pro's career a lot. Rogue, TY, Stats, Innovation, Byun, Classic, they all failed to win big tournament after military service. Trap is just back. herO is in fact doing definitely better than everyone who's done military service, all 3 races included.
Frankly, I think it really comes down to the design of Protoss as a race. On ladder (masters - low GM) and in the amateur/minor tournament scene, it performs very well - its build orders are the easiest to execute, but almost always focused around some sort of timing that only works if the opponent isn't quite prepared for it. Below the very highest level, players are very frequently making mistakes against these timings - either failing to scout them, misidentifying them, or simply responding incorrectly due to some misguided thought on what the correct response is (eg: going Hydras vs a carrier transition instead of making a spire, or committing to an attack even though Protoss is in its power window in TvP instead of playing around current the tech/army situation).
As the game progresses, vision becomes a huge problem for Protoss compared to the other races - Terran has scans, and Zerg has changelings to freely/easily get vision practically anywhere on the map. Revelation range is so short, and Oracle vision range is so short that there's only a 1 range leeway between an Oracle spotting an enemy army and being able to drop a revelation and it dying to vikings/being abducted. Similarly, Observers are made of paper, and aren't particularly fast + cost 75 gas. While they're fine for getting vision in the mid-game, once the opponent has their own detection and anti-air online, Observers aren't really usable for the purpose. Obs and Oracles also both cost supply, whereas Overseers and Orbitals do not, which means Protoss needs to dedicate supply for vision/detection, while Zerg and Terran do not.
This makes it much harder for Protoss to keep track of the enemy army to keep their own army in the right place to avoid getting caught out as the game progresses, and doing so usually means bleeding out units - the best of which for scouting having a high gas cost. The more limited nature of their detection also means they can't as reliably have detection where/when they need it.
When you get to the very best players, those mistakes that lead to Protoss wins with their timings get less and less common - the ease of Protoss build orders gets less relevant at that very highest level, and players are better at dealing with the gimmicks that give protoss an edge below that. So you get to those 40-45% overall PvT/PvZ win rates among the top 8 or so players of each race (even if you exclude Serral/Maru/HerO as outliers due to being the top performers of each race).
-In PvZ, there's always something you can look at on the Zerg side leading to the loss - usually some sort of composition/transition mistake, where they either didn't scout what the Protoss was doing correctly, or didn't react to it properly - this is why Serral never loses series to Protoss players: He's always on top of his scouting and almost never makes the wrong response/doesn't overcommit to aggression when the Protoss is able to defend it.
The blink stalker pressure that's currently the meta at the top level often falls completely flat vs ling-hydra/ling-heavy compositions - it only works well vs Roach/ravager compositions that lack the DPS/mobility to overpower the stalker shield regen/blink micro, so if the Zerg correctly identifies that the Protoss is going blink, and starts pumping lings + waits for enough to crush the fight (instead of running in with small groups and bleeding out units for free while trying to delay) they can often completely overwhelm it.
- In PvT, there's a bit of a back and forth, where Protoss has an edge in the early game due to the mobility of stalkers + shield regen + batteries letting them defend effectively (Batteries are basically the same thing as bunkers), but once Terran hits critical mass with stim, the game flips heavily into the Terran's favor, then back towards the Protoss once they have splash, then back towards Terran when they get their tech to respond, etc... In the post-late game, if the Terran is able to get there without bleeding out to harass or taking too much damage in the windows where Protoss had the edge, Terran is hugely advantaged because Protoss can't fight sky-terran effectively (though games very rarely reach that stage).
Protoss armies that can actually fight are also slower than T/Z armies in the mid-game, and the units that do have mobility, like stalkers, get outscaled by basically everything due to things like poor damage points + slow projectiles, and a reliance on shield regen/gimmicks, or short range/overspecialization (in the case of zealots/adepts). Protoss relies on recall and warp-gate to compensate that lesser mobility of effective armies, which means positioning can be more forgiving, but if caught out by an army with the critical mass/DPS density to power through, Protoss very easily lose all of their key units, which is something that doesn't happen so easily to Terran or Zerg, because it's easier for them to retreat: if Protoss tries to chase, they can shave off the chasing gateway units while the tech units Protoss relies on for damage get left behind due to their slower speed.
Early-mid game, protoss relies on warp-gate, blink, and the fast rate of shield regen to maintain any sort of aggression/pressure, but once the opponent gets critical mass of higher DPS units, it's much more difficult to get value out of them, and they lose value in the army. Zealots similarly are only really useful as a meatshield, when armies are small, or when in completely overwhelming numbers (That's after charge; pre-charge they're nothing but a meatshield).
Frankly, Protoss needs some adjustment to design, to give them armies that are less reliant on "gimmicks" and scale better:
1. Reduce shield regen/nerf offensive warp ins to reduce the ability to snowball an advantage in the early-mid game (shield regen can be added back through a twilight council or maybe cyber-core upgrade).
2. A nerf to offensive warp ins by changing empowered pylon radius to be ~20 from nexus (basically an entire base area) and not also work with warp gates/prisms - this would give more time to respond to them, and slow down Protoss reinforcements across the map. The prism nerf was tested in the past, but didn't make it into the game.
3. make units more efficient in some way so they can scale better into the late game.
4. A rework to or complete removal of disruptors - because they're just a badly designed unit that nobody likes; their performance is dependent on the opponent's micro in an extreme way, which makes them depend on a critical mass to be effective depending on the opponent's skill - at the very top, players are often so good at dodging disruptors that they're often basically worthless until they're in too large of numbers to be able to dodge effectively, at which point, they completely dominate the ground fights. That situation is too binary. Making them much more reliable, but with less oppressive damage (eg: having radial splash, but a larger area/much shorter cooldown and/or much faster detonator that's much harder to avoid), would probably be better for the game - or they could just be removed entirely and replaced because they have too much overlap with storm and colossus. It wouldn't be a good idea to make disruptor drops too effective vs workers, and, short of making their damage not work or be heavily reduced vs worker units, I don't see a good way to avoid that with any design that otherwise would make their gameplay more healthy.
5. A change to tempest targeting logic so they don't overkill so much and/or a rework to voidrays so they can actually counter the units they're supposed to in the air (Corruptors, BCs - they currently lose to both).
6. A buff to feedback - either more range, lower energy cost, or more damage, or some combination thereof. It not killing enemy spellcasters and being so energy intensive is a bit much, when snipe can outright kill basically any spellcaster and EMP is AoE + Ghosts have cloak and are 40% faster + have a decently strong attack, no armor tag, and more total HP (Ghosts should be 3 supply...).
7. Maybe something to make it a bit easier to keep some ground tech units like colossus alive as the game progresses (eg: make Abduct not work vs massive units). Currently, colossus fall off extremely hard once their counters hit the field, and it's not like they dominate the ground regardless with how little DPS they have vs non-light units.
8. More range on Revelation/more vision radius for Oracles/observers (attach to obs speed upgrade or something), so they have more leeway between seeing an enemy and the chance to react/pull away - Protoss's vision tools are just worse than those of Terran or Zerg. This might actually be the biggest problem at the very top level, since it makes it more difficult for Protoss to make the right decisions with their army movement.
Haha, looks like we have some kind of weird herO/MaxPax rivalry.
Subtitles are a little hard to read over his shirt.
nice interview
Great conntent, thanks
did ya translate every uknow to him?
Can't wait for Creator to win this season GSL
ZERG RUSHED THAT SUBSCRIBE BUTTON! absolutely gem of a channel
herO is so cool :D
go get that world title herO
Keep calm, play Protoss guys, we'll get out of that rut
I never liked Her0s playstyle, it's so much all or nothing. But his personality is something else, a really great mindset and humble as well!
The hope of Aiur
This camera angle makes herO looks a bit like Classic the chintoss. 😀
It’s difficult to balance the races and impossible to balance it for each player skill level. For example at bronze level play the terran might feel slightly overpowered but as you go up in player skill level the zerg might start to feel overpowered. It’s not just the potential power of each race but the ease of access and usage of each race to the player skill level. Imagine in theory if Protoss is by far much more powerful at it’s full potential but humanly impossible to manage to it’s full potential by the most pro player and then Zerg much weaker but easy to use. Two players of the same skill level will most likely have better odds as the Zerg especially in a long games since the stress level and difficulty of the Protoss player is much higher giving the Zerg player a huge advantage especially as time goes on. It’s not far from the truth. Zerg can expand and build units much faster and easier but at the expense of “weaker” units. The problem is that easily expanding and having more units faster is a better advantage than having stronger units. It also means that losing each unit is less significant to the zerg whereas the opposite is true for the opponent.
It's a bit of a catch 20 because Toss is weak so few people wanna play Toss and then there's few Toss pros and they can't really develop from each other like the other races
Serral is the 4th race and how zerg is balanced around
My favorite protoss player, who alway lost to serral in the finaly.
herO so handsome
nice
Hero: Serral is unbeatable cause hes an A.i robot. I don't think serrals human
The issue I see with Protoss right now is it's late game vs Zerg. Zerg has been at the top for at least 2 or 3 years now. Also Zest, Stats, SOS, and even MC can't play due to military which is dumbasf. Maybe bring back the old chargelots not like it was so difficult to defend against
The answers all seem pretty vague. You should have made more follow-up questions and try to get more specifics out of him. Be more inquisitive in the future please.
This interview was on an UNBELIEVABLE time crunch, barely had the time to ask what I did.
And the interviewer talked more than the interviewee. It should be the other way around.
But thanks for taking the time and effort to interview him.
herO is one of my favorite players in the game. I really like his style, and he also looks like a great guy.
As for the "debate", it's not a debate since at least 2022, only Terran/Maru fanboys can't digest this fact even after the GOAT obliterated Maru multiple times in the grandest of stages without even sweating.
Maru can't even take a single map from the GOAT, he is not even the best Terran at the moment, and he is not even on the same plane of existence as Serral. Maru being considered the GOAT by some is a joke, at best he is the most overrated player in the history of the game.
Neeb said that Hero is a strong player, he is just lazy in some of his micro and does not focus on managing his control units.
But even if there are more strong protoss players, it wouldn't be enough to surpass zerg players in general. Recently in the asl, Dark just continuously backstabbing hero with lings and ultras to death. Dark is not even on his best form.
We are in the Era where Zerg and terran are the only viable race in the top level.
you literally just watched a video where arguably the strongest player for the race/representative said that he thought the race was entirely viable at the top level, and there were two protos in gsl ro8 and now 1 in ro4. what are you on about?
cause Life isnt here
Protoss is not underpowered. It's Terran and Zerg overpowered, and Protoss is perfectly fine.
bad time for an interview . hero looks tired af
does he have tourettes or whats happening?
That’s very presumptuous of you. The lights ESL provided me were very bright and they were bothering his eyes.
@@StarcraftHistorian i like him too bro, dont get upset. But he has these constant sounds he makes, surely nothing to do with the light. And since when having any illness, if so, is somenthing to be ashamed of? He makes unusual sounds constantly and i wanna understand why, thats all. Whats the problem…
@@Salammaleicu there is (obviously) a language barrier, he is just acknowledging what is being said. Eastern languages have these small sounds of acknowledgement frequently throughout a conversation, it just doesnt sound right when applied to english. He also obviously doesnt speak the greatest (if any, I dont know if they just edited out the translation part but im assuming thats what happened) english, so he wouldnt know that. There are also parts where it looks like footage is cut which might make the verbal acknowledgements more frequent seeming
@@momoaa i thought about acknowledgement part at first, but there was alot of them. but yea, maybe its that, i wouldnt know. anyway, i said i like him, ill say again. i dont wanna upset nobody, he is a nice guy to me too. i also like him. sorry if anything. i only wanted to understand
@@Salammaleicu Yeah it was definitely a bit much, i noticed it too, my first guess was that he was on stimulants for the performance enhancement but after thinking about it a bit more, those other explanations were what i came to.