Ashely wasn't able to empathize with her mother because her mother couldn't empathize with Ashley. Jennifer prioritized her relationships over her child's safety. The woman didn't deserve to die for that, but I'm not crying any tears for Jennifer who allowed her boyfriends to abuse her own child.
Amen to that. totally agree.Jennifer wasn’t a mother. She was just selfish and stupid to be with that kinda guy, and even worse, she married him thinking everything would resolve. Jennifer got what she deserved along with her new husband.
I thought the same. Reminds me of my mom. I'm sure the first thing the mom said was. How dare you and lashed out at Ashley. And obviously stabbed. Just my opinion.
I’ll never understand why a woman will put having a man in her life above doing right by her children. I was a single mom for almost four years when my two oldest sons were little. I dated some after awhile but I would have never let a man stay in my house or be alone with my sons. I knew other single moms who changed boyfriends as often as changing their sheets. It so hard on the kids.
Couldn't agree more. I've been a single mom for 8 years. I've been dating someone casually for 7 of those. But i don't bring him around the kids. I've known women who move men in and out of their kids life so fast and often, the one little girl had like 4 different "dad's".
@rants of a grumpy old lady you seem like you were right on the money when it came to being a single mom. Your input on this subject is very reliable in my book!
Mortician…Ashley did not kill her sisters because she is not a murderer. The two killings that Ashley committed were in self-defense. Ashley was justified in what she did. Too bad the court system did not recognize that.
She probably killed her mother for enabling her stepfather‘s abuse. Killing her stepfather, gave her the adrenaline rush needed to act upon a very old grudge. This is a clear case of, humans are dangerous don’t fucking mistreat them. She should be rehabilitated not just put in another cage.
While possibly this is true, I don't understand glaring discrepancy that her mother flipped when she found out the age of her boyfriend. So she facilitated her daughter's sexual abuse, but then had a problem with her boyfriend's age? It doesn't compute and it shows that her mother at least tried some form of protecting her daughter. I believe Ashley was in a horrible environment due to her mother's choice of partners, but I think it was her mother preventing her to be with her boyfriend that tipped the scales that led to rage murder. The rest of the story might be for her defense, possibly true, but not main reason in the murder.
A few years after my husband died, I attempted to date. My kids were young. Regretfully, I wasn't meeting good father material. I just didn't get lucky, as I am sure they are out there. My kids met one man (and the only man) who I initially thought might be keeper, until the layers of the onion started to peel away, exposing a side that was unacceptable to me. When he nearly got into a physical fight with his own son in my kitchen, I was over it. Thank goodness it was a short lived relationship and I came to my senses. After that, I focused on raising my family. I thank God everyday that was my choice. No parent should throw their kids under the bus for a partner. The kids should come first. They didn't ask to be born - the parent birthed them. Do right by them. That's just the way I see it.
Yep, I’m a widow with a 15 year daughter living at home. I would never have a man, any man, alone with my daughter, sleep in my house, or leave my child in the care of some guy. I may date some day, but I think it might be easier to wait so I don’t have to explain this to a perfectly nice guy, because it could sound insulting, and I won’t change my mind
Have you dated since? What a lonely and brave thing you’ve done for your children. You must be a very strong woman! You did the right thing. I am facing that, myself, as I am leaving an abusive marriage and foresee a single life ahead of me, at least until my children are grown.
@@lostandfound5145If I could have found a good man, it would have been nice. What I did isn't for everyone, but I was OK alone, as my kids filled my life with joy. In the end I just wanted stability for them and for them to have a happy childhood. When they were both out of high school I met a man who I dated for 3 years. We are not together anymore as he wasn't completely sure I was the one. Still, it was nice to be in love again, while it lasted. Good luck to you going forward. I am glad you are freeing yourself of the abuse. If you put your children first, they will appreciate it. I met my kids for lunch this past Sunday. We are close and there is nothing in the world that pleases me more.
@@didomilan1725 It's our job to protect our kids. Kudos to you. I hope you can find love again someday. In the meantime, enjoy your time with your daughter!
I absolutely know what she’s talking about. And it’s very upsetting that this “Dr” pokes fun at her desire to leave her “freedom”. When you have been an abused child with one parent looking the other way, making excuses, or participating…you feel like a wild animal trying to survive. It took me 30 years to move on from my mothers excuses of why she stayed with the man she did.
@@lauraschuchard9057 there is a difference in what you're saying about your own experiences, verses what she states about freedom, and simultaneously trying to get out on an appeal. she has yet to take responsibility for her actions
@@lauraschuchard9057 you are very naive if you think ANYONE feels safe in prison, no matter what their life was like in the world. Prison is a very dangerous, dark and lonely place, so couple that with the fact that she's trying to appeal her conviction, yes it does sound made up to say you feel safe and happy in prison. It doesn't make sense for a variety of reason so I'm not exactly sure why what he said would upset you. You apparently also need to be reminded that everything we know about the abuse in the home was coming from someone who is fighting to keep themselves out of prison. A defense that is often used when no other defense is available to you, from someone who also clearly wanted to keep seeing a man she desperately wanted to be with so you don't need much common sense to know that's the likely motive. I'm not exactly sure why you're talking about abuse as if it's facts.
@@lazydaisy2292 LOL. Wow. You are the one who is seriously naïve and also irrationally angry over a simple difference of opinion. Go work in prisons and jails like I have. She may be housed by herself or she could be friends with her cellie. I bet you don’t even know that most cells have emergency buttons, especially the dorms. Prison is like anything else in life. It’s what you make of it. Every winter there are people who commit minor crimes where I live because they want to be warm and they like it better than the shelters so don’t give me this nonsense of jails and prisons being so bad when they’re not. It’s basically adult time out. Hopefully she will take advantage of all the free time and the free mental health services and work on herself.
i can totally understand how this could happen, i had a best friend whose stepfather was a huge creep, i witnessed the mother look the other way.. mothers can be evil, willing to sacrifice their daughters bc of their insecurities, allowing men to harm them in hopes of keeping them..
Yep. I had a stepfather and a mother like that and that's exactly what happened. And back in the 60s and 70s very few things were reported let alone prosecuted. I'm still in therapy but I never acted out my anger on anyone other than myself fortunately! I definitely thank God for that! 🙏💖
As a person who was beaten and mistreated throughout childhood I have to ask ...how much abuse does a young person have to suffer before striking back? And I believe she attacked her morher because her mother didn't protect her from whatever string of men she dragged through her daughter's life.
I literally came to say the same!!! I was thinking that the boyfriend was not the reason but totally a vehicle to getting out of that shitty situation. As someone who was abused, it actually makes perfect sense to want to kill the parent who did not protect you.
Again, another case of someone who was abused and traumatized in childhood and who then violently acted out. Society's standard response is to absolve itself of any responsibility for the situation and instead punish the victim of the abuse. This response fails to address the root cause of the problem, which is that poor, dysfunctional parenting leads to serious problems when the children grow up. The only real solution is to start making sure that all our children grow up in a safe, loving and nurturing environment.
I agree with your analysis the majority of the time, but really have to disagree with you this time. She killed them for way more reason than just wanting to run off with her boyfriend, deep reasons and emotions. The violence and rage of the attacks alone prove that. She could have snuck out of the house if she just wanted to be with her BF so badly. I wish Ashlee good fortune in the future, she will be 39 or 40 when released.
That's not an argument. Its happened more than a few times, teens killing their parents to be with a boyfriend, so her ability to sneak out of the house to see him, doesn't prove anything. There's no getting away from the timing of the attack. She killed them after being told she couldn't see her boyfriend. That alone could cause the rage that you think proves something. The only abuse we know of is the abuse being told by someone trying to salvage some time of their lives away from the confines of prison. Not saying it didn't happen but the possible motives for bringing such abuse to light, can't be ignored.
She didn't just want to run off with the boyfriend she wanted to be free of her parents and their control. Parental control is very different when there is abuse. It's not a normal healthy control and it's not about the safety and wellbeing of the child either.
At 17, I suspect the authorities would have left her alone if she had left home with boyfriend, but her sisters would still have been in danger. Overkill with a knife isn't always about rage. A knife isn't an efficient killing method for an amateur, so sometimes the killer uses multiple but ineffective stabs. I'm assuming that she didn't have time to reload the shotgun as her mother may have come to the aid of the husband. If she had stopped at stepfather, given the circumstances, she may not have done much time. Maybe not any time.
When I read about cases like this I’m always puzzled why a woman would bring a man like that into her child’s life. You would have to be desperate for a man to overlook his past.
The fact that Ashlee said she feels safe in prison says a lot about the situation she was in. I lived with anger toward my mother for enabling my abuser for a long time. Not sure exactly what saved me from doing what Ashlee did. I hope she finds some sense of positive purpose by the time she is released.
Her mother being an active participant in her sexual abuse is just horrific. Being abused by her caregivers made her completely lose concept of a safe family unit and seek safety elsewhere. How awful.
@@cjjohnson9413 true just like people who attribute someone murdering a bunch of people because of bullying. But tbh you really never know but even so still doesn’t make it right.
This is what the murderer said to the police after she killed her mother and her mother’s boyfriend. Very convenient. We do not know if that happened, and I have considerable doubts that it did. Ashley tried out several stories to see what would stick. And guess what. She just happened to land on the most sympathetic possible set of circumstances - the gold standard of manipulation.
A mother's most important job is to protect her offspring. Above all else. While not excusing murder, I understand Ashlee's rage and feelings of betrayal --I survived a mother that never protected me. Thankfully, I found help & a way out, and to forgiveness - for my own mental and spiritual wellness. And as a mother now, I'd kill to protect my sons. 💔
It's people like you who make ppl who have bad things happen to them , that makes it so much worse ... perhaps if you stop laying out a hallmark lifestyle for what suppose to be , ppl like Ashley wouldn't feel so much rage when things happen , and further ruin their lives ... They could deal much better if ppl stop pretending everyone's lives are hallmark .
I accepted a second date with a guy for lunch. He seemed interesting and nice enough during our first date,, but he was rude to our server on the second. Even before we ordered our entrees, I left and never spoke to him again. I don't understand women who will get involved with and tolerate rude, aggressive, violent, and domineering men.
Ashlee's mother was as psychopathic as her series of boyfriends, and, as is common in these situations, she "supported" her partner's behaviour at the expense of her own children. I can see why Ashlee killed her with such violence and malice. She was indeed a severely damaged child. I think the sentence was appropriate. She will hopefully have time in prison to come out, still in her 30s, and have time to have a more positive life.
I could imagine living a life of such abuse no wonder she freaked i would tell her don't worry you might be in prison but your mother and step father went to hell
Not sure why this family had 1 kid, let alone 4 combined. Ashlee's health and well being should have been her mother's priority. Instead, she married an abusive man. Honestly, I am tired of reading about divorces, young kids, endless boyfriends and family abuse/dysfunction. I wish all these screwed up parents would have thought twice before having babies.
The mother was to blame for enabling the violence and sexual abuse. I know they shouldn't have been murdered but then if you break the law you eventually reap what you sow. Who says the abuse didn't extend to the other sisters. I imagine in a few years it will come out because a violent abuser doesn't stop at one victim. Its an endless pursuit of a depraved pervert.
I hate to say it but Ashley’s mother was not an innocent victim. She subjected her daughters to years of abuse and seeing her abused. She put Ashley in risky situations and seemed to “stand by her man” over and above the well being of her daughters. I could see how there would be pent up rage.
as a victim of csa, i totally get what ashley did, to probably a unhealthy extent. she slayed … literally. i feel like only people who have experienced that will truly understand it.
With all the abuse she endured most likely she was sick of their crap to abuse her and then some creep shows her actual affection and they try to take that away from her. It's sad and it's why everyone shouldn't be allowed to just willy nilly have children. Some people based on their actions need to be investigated when children exist near them. It's ridiculous. Killing is bad but so is a lifetime of abuse. Sad all around. I wonder how the other children are now. I hope they are alright.
Ashley stabbed her mother. Stabbing suggests a personal, and sexual component. Ashley blamed her mother for not protecting her. She may have been frustrated Tom's death was too quick and easy. Out of frustration, she took out her frustration that he did not suffer adequately on her mother, and subsequently her mother's body after death, inflicting upon it injuries she wished she could have perpetrated upon Tom as he was dying. It's clear that she did not see her mother as a victim in any way, although it's clear she was, and was trauma bonded to someone who sounds suspiciously psychopathic (cruelty to animals, lacking remorse at mistreating others). Children can be as angry, if not angrier, at the parent who stands by and allows abuse to happen, because they know that parents knows what is happening is wrong, yet does nothing.
I was going to say, my father abused me and I still have so much hatred towards my mother because she chose not to protect me. Looks like I’m not alone there…
I agree with your analysis and I completely understand the rage she felt against her mother. I don't think the children give the abusive father/stepfather/boyfriend a pass, but feel more anger against the mother for bringing and keeping an abuser in to their lives. Children expect their mothers even more than their fathers to protect them, not serve them up to an abuser. Psychologically damaged from the start. Such a sad case.
@Dr. Todd Grande Today's question is, can you analyze the case of Linda Wilson? Linda was arrested in 2017 for the murder of her husband. (Her husband was found in the basement, buried underneath a pile of newspapers. The autopsy revealed that he had numerous lacerations from a sharp object, possibly a meat cleaver or large knife.)
Mothers often make poor decisions when finding future partners and they put their children at extreme risk by doing this. They also put themselves at extreme risk.
There is a Spanish saying that goes, "Raise crows and they will peck your eyes out." These two raised her and she became that way. 23 years sounds apt for this crime.
@@clearjr1 I find it crazy that everybody is justifying this monster who killed the woman who gave her life. Anybody who has murder in them is just not right. That's not to say that the parents weren't horrible. They deserved prison, too.
Not to excuse Ashlee, but her mother had a lot to blame in allowing undesirable men in and out of their home. Ashlee developed so much rage inside of herself from her mother not protecting her and for allowing harmful situations with men the mother was dating. The mother wanted men in her life so her daughter was a secondary concern. Yes, Ashlee didn’t like how her mom’s bf treated her Mom, but that only added fuel to the flame. Neglectful parents need to be held partially responsible to their minor children’s behavior. Ashlee both loved and hated her mother. How horrible of a life! Her mom should’ve given up her children for someone else to raise them. The mother wanted to live life as if she didn’t have children. I blame the mother at least 50% for all the years of her having creepy boyfriends and allowing them to do creepy things with her daughter. No wonder Ashlee had an older boyfriend. She wanted rescuing from her home and wanted away from a horrible mother who did not protect her. There comes a boiling point when we snap. I can’t imagine the betrayal Ashlee felt from her mom who chose men over her children. 😭 Not sure how our judicial system could handle these cases, but just because the gun is fired from your hand doesn’t mean there was no reason behind it. As an elementary teacher I see children who are in distress from negligent parents. The cards are stacked against them to become a well-adjusted adult. It’s heartbreaking to see the lives some children HAVE TO live. Very sad!
As a person who once was a teenage girl in this situation with a mother who was also an abuser due to borderline personality disorder in addition to the other circumstances Ashley allegedly suffered, I couldn't disagree more with your assessment, and that's a rare thing for me. I sympathize with the need for escape, and doubt the boyfriend was as much of a motivation for leaving as you've made him. If I lost my car I'd lose my mind, since it meant I couldn't easily escape my abusers. Just having the option of driving away was what kept me going. If I was trapped, I'd self harm rather than lash out, because I had a different personality and didn't have access to firearms at that time. (I couldn't overpower my parents and leave of my own volition; she could.) I would have done the same thing, and I can tell you exactly why. If my parents hadn't had a locked gunsafe I couldn't access, I'd be in her place.
People who grow up in happy homes think everyone else does. Violence is an aberration committed by a "bad" person. If you have suffered physical or mental abuse, the rage lives on for years. There are two paths, either recognize the problem and get assistance or take it out on the world. It requires a level of self awareness that some people just don't possess. This girl is where she should be, and so are the parents.
My big brothers who were abused and beat by my dad would get into his unlocked guns in the basement and shoot up the basement pretending like it was him. That's pretty close and it's a good reason you should never have firearms in the house with teenagers
I do not think it is difficult to understand why Ashely killed her mother; she probably just snapped and could not handle one more thing. Her mother literally "pimped her out" and also stood by and allowed her to be abused. Ashley may have seen running away with her boyfriend as her only option; one for which she would kill. I hope that she gets the treatment she needs to heal her trauma and to live a peaceful life.
Well those victims were not a great loss, now maybe the younger siblings stand a chance at a beter life. She had better excuses than most to be a killer.
RE: stabbing her mother vs shooting the stepfather, i thought exactly what Dr. Grande did - that she primarily blamed her mother for her problems. But one of my male family members piped up that she probably didn't know how to RELOAD the double-barrel shotgun. Made me think...
Based on biology, she would necessarily blame the mother more. The stepfather, in biological terms, is a stranger with no real blood ties or familial responsibility to her. Whereas, her mother who birthed her was tasked with protecting her.
Sadly I once had a girlfriend whose mother let the father do horrible things to her. However how this effected her feelings for her mother was the opposite of the 17 year old girl in this case. She actually became fully subservient to the mom and would do anything she told her to do and this was more then 20 years after the abusers death. I was disgusted that a mother would allow that to happen to her daughter and I was even more disgusted when I found out the mom knew but did nothing. Yet her mom had this bizarre control over her even though the girl I dated knew all that stuff. I often wonder what she was thinking when talking to her mom and how she truly felt about her. Wether she was a prisoner? A willing prisoner or something else. She also had a habit of staying with horrible people and getting rid of those that treat her well not just boyfriends but also friends. I often wondered if it was a personality disorder.
Your last sentence applies here: there's a "nick" between two people, and sometimes it's good: (one manages money well, the other knows how to make it; but ALSO knows to let the spouse manage the numbers) as an example. Personality-wise, one disorder or "need" attracts bad boys, and sends the nice ones away.
It's a trauma response. She was just a child desperately looking for the love and approval of her mother, to try to heal the abuse. Sometimes people don't react with rage or hatred, but with people pleading and codependency. People with complex trauma also seem to get drawn towards people that remind them of their abuser because their abuser was also entangled with love, family or familiarity
She wasn't protected and was put in a situation with this abuser. Who wouldn't reach a point where they felt they had to do something drastic if no-one else would.
Such a dark, disturbing case all around! I cannot believe that her own mother caused such terrible, life long harm to her own daughter. A mother has been said to be the fiercest animal when protecting her children.... Also, I really don't feel one bit sorry for her steo-father's death- he killed the family dog and was a terrible person. . I really feel sorry for her three sisters!
I feel sympathy for her sisters but also realize their lives may have been drastically different today had Ashlee not removed that monster from their home.
I hope people will look into this case further. This is such a horrible example of what really happened. These children were so severely and sexually abused as well. Ashlee did everyone a favor, especially her younger sisters. Her mom turned on her. This has NOTHING to do with her boyfriend. But all about Tom and his abusive and controlling actions.
I think it would be great if you stop referring to the biological mother and husband (non-bio father) in the home as “parents”. They were not parents… They were abusers. The mother was passively compliant with her daughters abuse as evidenced by her daughter, growing up to become a sociopath. The victim becomes the abuser.
This is what I was thinking. They forfeited the claim of parents long before the murder. Jennifer allowed the abuse, so carries equal blame. If Ashlee wasn’t extremely disturbed by her environment, she would have realized she could skip the murder part and just run away. The police would have made less effort to find her.
If it's true that her mother sent one of her boyfriends to give Ashley a bath and go into her bedroom at night, of course she'd have rage building up. This is more than just wanting to get her way.
It’s no surprise that children who are repeatedly r*ped and abused for years finally snap when no one, not a single teacher, counselor, parent, or adult, does a damn thing about it. I’m of the camp that 23 years is too long for this young woman, who had already spent her whole life in a prison the day she finally decided to get out.
Happy Sunday Dr. Grande & audience! Proud Patreon Supporter! ❤ Tysvm for your hard work and dedication! The case analysis is amazing.. I wound up in a fairly heated discussion about my opinions on Ashley so hearing your thoughts resonated.. Have a safe and beautiful day! ✨✨
Wow. What a terrible story. Ashley was so young when she murdered. It sounds like her upbringing was hell & most certainly would nurture rage & hate in a child. I can't find any sympathy in my heart for these "parents". Of course it must have seemed the height of hypocrisy to Ashley that her parents ruled out an older boyfriend. I hope Ashley will choose prison courses that will help her forgive & heal from the past. People can & do change.
There's a reason Dr. G waits until cases have long been concluded most times. There is nothing to cover on a case that has just happened most times, and waiting for all the info to come out makes for a much better video.
Hey Doc, would you please look into the case of Vietnam veteran Andrew Brannan and police officer Kyle Dinkheller? It’s a really sad murder case which highlights the problems veterans face with PTSD and how they were treated when they came home. Thanks :)
I don't think you can say one way or another that it was premeditated or that she did it specifically to be with her boyfriend. Saying she wanted to kill them both can attributed to teenage angst. She very likely was planning on killing herself. Honestly, her step-father, an enraged man with a history of violence, she could easily have felt like he was about to start beating her so she shot him in self-defense. Her mother had possibly been complicit in previous assaults on Ashley thereby showing that she cared more about her boyfriends' desires and well-being than those of Ashley. It's entirely possible that she introduced the knife to situation. It's equally possible that her mother did attack her over it. And her mother attacking her could easily cause her to become enraged and prompt her to commit matricide Either way, yes, she did kill them both. But I don't think it can be proven that it was a premeditated. Why stab her mother, when she easily could have reloaded the shotgun, or had another gun handy? It's far more likely that she was thinking about killing one person, either herself or the step-dad. She waited for her mom to come upstairs, instead of seeking her out. She didn't have a plan. And as far as her contacting the boyfriend, all that really proves is that she trusted him and felt like he could help her, not that she did it just to be with him.
Thank you for your comment. I felt that to call the murders premeditated was off. As in, couldn’t be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. And that the sole motivation was to be with her boyfriend? That doesn’t seem clear either. And your comment…or we could call it an argument… would be considered completely possible to me if I were a juror. And possibly more probable. After hearing what kind of garbage person Ashley’s stepfather was and had always been known to be and how her mother-a victim herself but a complicit contributor to the abuse and a woman who considered every man she had in her life a priority over her children ? That’s a betrayal that hits hard. Deep. Adolescence is an almost constant state of true chemical imbalance and there are times when adolescents are simply not rational at all times. Even if they “know” right from wrong. Abused children know plenty about what’s not right because they experience that repeatedly. Rage can take over in a nanosecond. An abused child can feel absolute contempt for a mother who allows herself to be a victim and becomes an abuser and victimizer of her own children ( especially her DAUGHTER/S ) in spite of knowing how it feels herself. It’s a huge and reprehensible betrayal. I feel contempt for Jennifer myself but as an older person I can recognize that there’s years of generational abuse, toxicity and dysfunction and that’s a potent and volatile combination. It leaves me feeling like there’s no end of victims. Just awful. I truly hope this young woman can get the help she certainly deserves and I do believe that she can be rehabilitated. She’ll have to want it because the good ole usa has a skewed (at best) vision and version of rehabilitation and will do little to actually rehabilitate. The system doesn’t seem to understand that being “locked up”, which is a form of shunning, IS the punishment. After that? Everything should be about true rehabilitation. But we’re still, sadly enough, stuck. Which is the reason for high recidivism statistics. A prison in this country is, all too often, a great college to attend to encourage and educate convicted criminals to be better criminals or more violent than before. It’s just sad and I am confused as to why people don’t understand that the system needs to change. I’m comfortable with Ashley’s sentence. I hope she is resilient enough to want to use the time and the very limited resources available to her to become a productive human being who IS worthy of being valued and loved. Btw, If anyone gets through all this? TY. I tend to get pretty caught up in cases like this. Because it is not black and white. And it’s so very tragic. I’m really rooting for Ashley. Wonder if I could ask to send her the occasional letter telling her that I am absolutely rooting for her? Small things like that can make a big difference. Thanks again to anyone who read this long comment and I need to point out my use of all caps in some words was for emphasis and not yelling. All the best!🙂
i do hope the siblings are seeking treatment, support, care & LOVE.! they do richly deserve.! ☺️😊 as for the additional players in this saga. zero interest.! 🤘🏻🇦🇺🌏✌🏻
I find it hard to be as objective as Dr Grande as there's a level of compassion I have for neglected children, it really does have a long lasting, deeply disturbing effect. This is probably the most extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to homicide, but there's also a lot that end up in drug addiction, prostitution and leading terrible lives. Don't deny she did it for some almost minor reasons but I'd argue there's a fairly long list of extenuating circumstances and then being tried as an adult I'm not sure I agree with.
Her mother was for sure 100% to blame and this is the case for all parents when it comes to the suffering of their children really. Think twice before having kids - and then don't!
You seem to have less empathy for Ashlee than you expected Ashlee to have for her mother. Ashlee was 17, abused all her life, and she’s supposed to have a fully developed empathetic self? Maybe she “wanted to be with her boyfriend” because she did feel safe with him. Certainly her mother was not offereing her any safety. As far as the stepfather is concerned, too bad the justice he received took so long. Otherwise, we might not even be here. Have watched a number of your videos; today is my last one. Her sentence seems reasonable. Peace, thanks for the insight i have gotten in the other of your videos
"Disrespecting the authority of her parents" ... is dr grande saying things like this to get a rise out of the viewer with the intention to generate more video interactions, comments etc? This seems like a pretty tone-deaf take that lacks a lot of empathy. It's difficult to imagine he actually feels that way, based on his older videos which seem to demonstrate a higher capacity for empathetic and nuanced takes. I miss his older content which felt more honest and less about gaming the youtube algorithm.
It's so odd thinking about being killed by your own spawn. The human that you helped procreate with another person with. Such an odd feeling to know that it's possible that you can be killed by your own child. It's so sad.
Reminds me of the what the Hernandez brothers said about their case, it was a mistake to have killed their mother. I'm sure their fellow convicts agree, they look down on that too.
On March 7, 2015, one day after her seventeenth birthday, Ashlee Anne Rose Martinson of Piehl, Wisconsin was kidnapped off of the side of a public road by her former stepfather, Thomas Harold Ayers, in his vehicle; brought back to the house she'd just permanently left as an emancipated minor (plus 1 day); and was then falsely imprisoned by Ayers in her former bedroom, with the knowledge and consent of her abusive mother, and with Ashlee's three younger sisters in the home, aged 9, 8, and 2. Ashlee had left the house minutes earlier with a bag of her belongings, on foot, because Ayers had stolen her cellphone and the keys to her truck, which was fully paid for by Ashlee from her after-school job earnings. When Ayers attempted to enter Ashlee's room to beat her, she used unannounced lethal force to kill her assailant with his own shotgun. Her mother then shouted an expletive, as witnessed by the three younger sisters who were with Jennifer Ayers in the downstairs kitchen at the time that the single shot went off; ran halfway up the stairs, grabbing a decorative knife from a shelf; and attacked Ashlee with it, even as Ashlee had already dropped the firearm in shock. Crime scene photographs showing Jennifer's body at the top of the srairwell also corroborate Ashlee's, and the younger sisters', account. Wisconsin, which originally sought a sentence of 40 years, settled for the sentence of 23 years, five of which Ashlee has already served. Ashlee's appeal, and subsequent appeal to the Wisconsin Supreme Court for a reduced sentence, under the argument of insanity, has been predictably, and conveniently for the State of Wisconsin, repeatedly denied. But, Ashlee was never insane at any time, and in fact the original prosecution argued this, and even discarded its own original charge of premeditation. What's left but self-defense, if Ashlee was not insane, and did not premeditate? Her self-defense witha firearm was reasonable, and legal. Yet, Ashlee's bond for killing her adult male kidnapper and abuser, as well as her mother, who had been effectively sex-trafficking Ashlee for over four years, and between two men, after she'd attacked Ashlee first, with a knife and with intent to kill, was set at $750,000. Ashlee was always described, and continues to be described, by her former friends and classmates as funny, stylish, creative, and with a bubbly personality, who "would keep things to herself because she didn't want make others feel bad." Ashlee was an abused girl brought to the precipice, in large part, through negligence by Wisconsin, and was not an irredeemable danger to society. Why didn't Wisconsin ever perform a single surprise welfare check on the home, which contained four female minors, at least eight loaded illegal guns, and a felon pedophile with a vrey long rap sheet? Why are officials preventing journalists from filming Ashlee directly, in particular for the recent documentary performed by Crime Watch? Why did Captain Terri Hook of Oneida tell her community that "they had no reason to be afraid" and that she "believed this was an isolated incident?" For the killings to have been an isolated incident, wouldn't that mean that they would have had to have been a fluke without warning-- either a result of sudden acute insanity, or premeditation? Why wasn't the fact that Ashlee had been kidnapped after waiting patiently and responsibly for her emancipation date taken into consideration during her defense? Ashlee Anne Rose Martinson Ashlee Martinson Thomas Ayers Thomas Harold Ayers Vampchick Piehl, Wisconsin Oneida County, Wisconsin Captain Terri Hook Detective Brian Barbour Jennifer Ayers Wisconsin Supreme Court Second Amendment Castle Doctrine Wisconsin Castle Doctrine child abuse sex trafficking sex trafficking of minors self-defense false imprisonment straw man
I've got to disagree with you on this one Dr. Grande. No child should have to deal with parents like that. After what she went through, that young lady deserves the compassion the court showed her. Anyone who feels safer in prison than at home has had too much trauma. I hope she gets the help she needs.
Saw this story on "Beyond Evil" TH-cam channel. They painted a different picture of the situation, showed interviews with her younger sisters describing the abuse, said that Ashlee and her mom wanted her to move out when she turned 17 but step-dad wouldn't allow it, that mom had become abusive as well, that law enforcement had been of no help in a previous situation, the kids were never allowed to have friends over, etc. With all due respect to Dr. Grande, it seems very much to me like self-defense. If her mom hadn't come at her with a knife, Ashlee wouldn't have killed her. She showed remorse. Step-dad never ever should have had custody of children based on his past criminal record. Terrible case. But she saved herself and her sisters and for that I think she was a hero. She also left her sisters a cell phone when she put them in a room with food and juice to keep them from seeing the carnage.
This was a very dysfunctional family. The mother never stepped up to protect her daughter from boyfriend or stepfather. That makes the mother just as guilty as the actual abuser. Ashely, for her part, was simply trying to protect herself in the only way she knew how. In her environment while growing up she was never given the tools that would enable her to make rational decisions. Ashley does not deserve to be in prison and needs to be in a half-way house where she can learn how to navigate through the challenges of life. She will never get this training while incarcerated.
Having lived with a mother who was happy to leave me out to dry, was abusive and failed to ever side with me I actually get why she stabbed her mother. She was just sick of her and having a boyfriend you start thinking my mum actually is more concerned about sex than me and then to the mum probably called her all kinds of names for shooting the man and she just lost it. I've not killed my mum, I've just cut her off but that's because I'm a rational adult not a hormonal teen. I did beat my mum up once though. So yeah not saying what she did was right just that I get it and think 23 years ia ample. People need to understand the deep effect that child abuse has on its victims and stop judging those victims based on what a rational person would do, if what happens to you isn't rational how do you expect to think rationally?
Ashlee, being the oldest, with no maternal support, seemed essentially without any support at all after nearly a decade of physical and emotional abuse and neglect. The one person she had was her 22 year old boyfriend, and they took that away from her ON HER BIRTHDAY. How could you not snap?!
it's interesting that 5 years difference in a consensual relationship is suddenly a problem for someone who introduced a much older predator into their household and let him attack her own children...
Excuse me, Dr.Grande do you speak from real life experience or based off what you were taught in a classroom? As an abuse survivor that endured abuse on a daily basis. I can tell you speak from your classroom teachings and not real life experience.
I'm pretty sure the state went with a plea agreement mostly because: 1. With that kind of family history, a sympathetic jury might (in my opinion, quite rightly) let her off easy or at least easier than the deal, and: 2. They just couldn't work up any kind of effort to spin a narrative that might play in court to a jury to get them to empathize with these two "victims". Prosecutorial discretion to proceed with a case is a sword that cuts both to overzealousness in some cases and to apathy in others, this seems more like a punt down the middle of the road.
Well, someone brought these abusive guys into the home showing no empathy for Ashley. Then allowed them to remain in the home after the abuse occurred. It would have to seem intentional and targeted at her from Ashley perspective. Ashley had to be thinking can't my mom find a guy that doesn't want to have sex with me and use me as an ashtray? I don't condone Ashleys acts of violence but completely understand why she did.
She likely stabbed her mother bc of the anger built up from choosing these sleazbags ahead of her children. I can speak from personal experience although I never reacted violently and don’t condone it, I can understand.
Not so fun fact, the same judge that sentenced this abused kid to 23 years in prison also sentenced a man who killed his friend in a drunk driving accident to 3. Lmao this justice system is pure comedy.
This is absolutely the mother's fault. I can attest that, some women are simply drawn to violent losers as are moths to a flame, and they don't care who it hurts - even if it is their own kids. My father always told me that there is nothing on earth better than a good woman, and that the very best of men could never compare to one. He also said however, that sorry women had no equal, and that they would do things that would make a sorry man cower in shame. Most of the advice he gave us during his lifetime turned out to be solid.
What an absolutely horrible story! All this because of the age of the boyfriend? Unbelievable! A year later, she could have been dating a 60 year old and there is absolutely nothing her mother and stepfather could have done to stop her from doing so.
This one hit close to home-I can empathize with Ashlee. To be honest, I can understand her rage. And it’s possible that she had conflicting feelings about her mother-maybe she hated seeing her mother as a victim but still blamed her mother for betraying her. When her mother didn’t take her side after the murder, maybe that tipped the scales. She had already decided to commit murder-a second one wasn’t that big of a step. WhatI don’t understand is her being so self centered that she didn’t take into account the effect her actions would have on other people. Even if she couldn’t empathize with her mother and stepfather, what about her sisters? It must have been horrible for them to go through that. She should have cared about that. Thanks for sharing this case with us Dr Grande.
She might have thought that she was saving them from a life of abuse at the hands of these “PARENTS”. I hope that her siblings go on to a healthier home and happier lives. This household should have had the children removed before it got to this point.
Dr. Grande might take a look at a case from rural CA, Cameron Hooker. Hooker kidnapped Coleen Stan as a sex slave, torturing her and keeping her shut up in a box, with cooperation from his wife, whom he had also abused. After 7 years, the wife became less under her husband's control and helped Stan escape. The wife testified that Hooker had murdered hitchhiker Marie Elizabeth Spannhake the previous year, and that she helped him bury the body in Lassen National Park. Hooker was never charged for this murder. He has been released on parole but was certified as a mentally disordered sex offender, and is undergoing mandatory treament at Atascadero SH.
Unfortunately Dr.Grande is not so professional when he talks about child's crime, but he knows a lot about adults. Her mother let her suffer by bringing in a dangerous person.
Regardless of her state of mind at the moment of the killings she seriously endangered three children by confining them in a room, abandoning them and not returning to release them over the following day.
Hello, Dr. Grande - could you please cover: (a) the case of the 15 yo teenage boy who killed a few people, including a female runner and his older brother, in Raleigh in the tail end of 2022? Also, could you please discuss: (b) the 2016 case of the actor Michael Jace ("The Shield"), who is serving life in prison for killing his wife (I believe he was enraged at the time). I loved his acting in the show and was horrified when I heard what happened. Finally, can you please find out what happened: (c) a few years ago when a young woman hit a man with her car, he ended up being trapped in the windshield, dying, and she drove home anyway (ignoring his cries for help) and parked the car in the garage and went inside the house. He ended up dying, of course, because she didn't get any help for him. What a prize she was! Thank you very much!
Here in Sweden teenagers who commit murder only get 4-5 years and are out after 2-3 years! They serve their sentence in special youth facilities where they have access to the Internet, play video games and have many recreational activities. It is not uncommon that some of these violent offenders break out of these "facilities of leisure" due to low surveillance. The judicial system in Sweden is a joke! 😁
The question is....... with the Family modifcation provide by Ashley will her younger siblings have a better lifes ? With good time Ashely will see about 16.5 years ..... so she gets out under 40 and could reunite with her sisters and .......Ya she got a great deal 16.5 years traded for mommy and daddy getting shorted aproxmently 35 years each = 70 years so the math is Ashley got off easy if you leave out the whole bad childhood stuff,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, frankly people that mistreat there childern should all be put on the same iland ( no food provided thye will work it out ).
It bewilders me when "parents" who are evil criminals think they are the ones who should assess & punish bad behavior. Bad behavior that likely wouldnt occur if the parents chose to be decent human beings & parents in the first place. Im not condoning murder AT ALL. Playing God is the WORST! Im only saying I'd expect no better behavior or outcome for Ashley under her circumstances.
The stepfather had been convicted of kidnapping, sexual assault and domestic abuse among other felonies, he was abusive to his children and Ashley's mother. Ashley's mother put Ashley in the home with abusive men all her life. I would be afraid she would only be convicted of Manslaughter if she got a sympathic jury - after all it just takes 1 juror. 23 years seems like a good result to me. But what do I know - I have only been a prosecutor for 25 years.
Ashely wasn't able to empathize with her mother because her mother couldn't empathize with Ashley. Jennifer prioritized her relationships over her child's safety. The woman didn't deserve to die for that, but I'm not crying any tears for Jennifer who allowed her boyfriends to abuse her own child.
Amen to that. totally agree.Jennifer wasn’t a mother. She was just selfish and stupid to be with that kinda guy, and even worse, she married him thinking everything would resolve. Jennifer got what she deserved along with her new husband.
😅
I thought the same. Reminds me of my mom. I'm sure the first thing the mom said was. How dare you and lashed out at Ashley. And obviously stabbed. Just my opinion.
I’ll never understand why a woman will put having a man in her life above doing right by her children. I was a single mom for almost four years when my two oldest sons were little. I dated some after awhile but I would have never let a man stay in my house or be alone with my sons. I knew other single moms who changed boyfriends as often as changing their sheets. It so hard on the kids.
I agree! I saw your post after writing a similar comment based on my life. You go mom.
Same!
Couldn't agree more. I've been a single mom for 8 years. I've been dating someone casually for 7 of those. But i don't bring him around the kids. I've known women who move men in and out of their kids life so fast and often, the one little girl had like 4 different "dad's".
@rants of a grumpy old lady you seem like you were right on the money when it came to being a single mom. Your input on this subject is very reliable in my book!
In forced classes for divorcing parents they instruct parents to not have a revolving door relationships around the children. Good advice.
At least she didn't kill her sisters.
Also.... Thomas was a POS. And the mother allowed it.
Seems like a horrible situation all around.
Mortician…Ashley did not kill her sisters because she is not a murderer. The two killings that Ashley committed were in self-defense. Ashley was justified in what she did. Too bad the court system did not recognize that.
My take on this is, do not create a hostile environment for your child or they might kill you.
Well said.
Yes, you can’t create a monster and then be surprised when it happens to turn on you for the years of abuse.
Some ppl are born bad.
@@dsoule4902 And some people were molested by their stepfathers while their mothers passively watched.
@@dsoule4902 That’s true. But far more of them are damaged by the abuse heaped upon them by their warped parents.
She probably killed her mother for enabling her stepfather‘s abuse. Killing her stepfather, gave her the adrenaline rush needed to act upon a very old grudge. This is a clear case of, humans are dangerous don’t fucking mistreat them. She should be rehabilitated not just put in another cage.
While possibly this is true, I don't understand glaring discrepancy that her mother flipped when she found out the age of her boyfriend. So she facilitated her daughter's sexual abuse, but then had a problem with her boyfriend's age? It doesn't compute and it shows that her mother at least tried some form of protecting her daughter. I believe Ashley was in a horrible environment due to her mother's choice of partners, but I think it was her mother preventing her to be with her boyfriend that tipped the scales that led to rage murder. The rest of the story might be for her defense, possibly true, but not main reason in the murder.
@@MusgraveRitual yeah, she clearly hated her mother
Murder is murder. Let her die in there, I hope they extend her sentence. Many children grew up around this violence, only the scumbags lash out.
Ashley herself said her stepfather never touched her.
@@aarondavis8943 Did I miss this part of the video?
A few years after my husband died, I attempted to date. My kids were young. Regretfully, I wasn't meeting good father material. I just didn't get lucky, as I am sure they are out there. My kids met one man (and the only man) who I initially thought might be keeper, until the layers of the onion started to peel away, exposing a side that was unacceptable to me. When he nearly got into a physical fight with his own son in my kitchen, I was over it. Thank goodness it was a short lived relationship and I came to my senses. After that, I focused on raising my family. I thank God everyday that was my choice. No parent should throw their kids under the bus for a partner. The kids should come first. They didn't ask to be born - the parent birthed them. Do right by them. That's just the way I see it.
💞💞
Yep, I’m a widow with a 15 year daughter living at home. I would never have a man, any man, alone with my daughter, sleep in my house, or leave my child in the care of some guy. I may date some day, but I think it might be easier to wait so I don’t have to explain this to a perfectly nice guy, because it could sound insulting, and I won’t change my mind
Have you dated since? What a lonely and brave thing you’ve done for your children. You must be a very strong woman! You did the right thing. I am facing that, myself, as I am leaving an abusive marriage and foresee a single life ahead of me, at least until my children are grown.
@@lostandfound5145If I could have found a good man, it would have been nice. What I did isn't for everyone, but I was OK alone, as my kids filled my life with joy. In the end I just wanted stability for them and for them to have a happy childhood. When they were both out of high school I met a man who I dated for 3 years. We are not together anymore as he wasn't completely sure I was the one. Still, it was nice to be in love again, while it lasted. Good luck to you going forward. I am glad you are freeing yourself of the abuse. If you put your children first, they will appreciate it. I met my kids for lunch this past Sunday. We are close and there is nothing in the world that pleases me more.
@@didomilan1725 It's our job to protect our kids. Kudos to you. I hope you can find love again someday. In the meantime, enjoy your time with your daughter!
I can't help but believe Ashley when she says that she feels "safe" in prison. Probably safer from abuse than she was in her own home.
I absolutely know what she’s talking about. And it’s very upsetting that this “Dr” pokes fun at her desire to leave her “freedom”. When you have been an abused child with one parent looking the other way, making excuses, or participating…you feel like a wild animal trying to survive. It took me 30 years to move on from my mothers excuses of why she stayed with the man she did.
@@lauraschuchard9057 there is a difference in what you're saying about your own experiences, verses what she states about freedom, and simultaneously trying to get out on an appeal. she has yet to take responsibility for her actions
Abuse is not an excuse for murder. If it was, we'd all be murderers.
@@lauraschuchard9057 you are very naive if you think ANYONE feels safe in prison, no matter what their life was like in the world. Prison is a very dangerous, dark and lonely place, so couple that with the fact that she's trying to appeal her conviction, yes it does sound made up to say you feel safe and happy in prison. It doesn't make sense for a variety of reason so I'm not exactly sure why what he said would upset you. You apparently also need to be reminded that everything we know about the abuse in the home was coming from someone who is fighting to keep themselves out of prison. A defense that is often used when no other defense is available to you, from someone who also clearly wanted to keep seeing a man she desperately wanted to be with so you don't need much common sense to know that's the likely motive. I'm not exactly sure why you're talking about abuse as if it's facts.
@@lazydaisy2292 LOL. Wow. You are the one who is seriously naïve and also irrationally angry over a simple difference of opinion. Go work in prisons and jails like I have. She may be housed by herself or she could be friends with her cellie. I bet you don’t even know that most cells have emergency buttons, especially the dorms. Prison is like anything else in life. It’s what you make of it. Every winter there are people who commit minor crimes where I live because they want to be warm and they like it better than the shelters so don’t give me this nonsense of jails and prisons being so bad when they’re not. It’s basically adult time out. Hopefully she will take advantage of all the free time and the free mental health services and work on herself.
Regardless of the trigger, the rage Ashley felt is understandable. The sentence is sufficient. Both the mother and step father are beyond contempt.
I agree.
No she should be released. You get beaten and abuse your whole life and see how you turn out.
i can totally understand how this could happen, i had a best friend whose stepfather was a huge creep, i witnessed the mother look the other way.. mothers can be evil, willing to sacrifice their daughters bc of their insecurities, allowing men to harm them in hopes of keeping them..
Do you mean to say he molested her?
Yep. I had a stepfather and a mother like that and that's exactly what happened. And back in the 60s and 70s very few things were reported let alone prosecuted. I'm still in therapy but I never acted out my anger on anyone other than myself fortunately! I definitely thank God for that! 🙏💖
As a person who was beaten and mistreated throughout childhood I have to ask ...how much abuse does a young person have to suffer before striking back? And I believe she attacked her morher because her mother didn't protect her from whatever string of men she dragged through her daughter's life.
charleen davis: that is exactly what Dr. Grande just said. ???
I literally came to say the same!!! I was thinking that the boyfriend was not the reason but totally a vehicle to getting out of that shitty situation. As someone who was abused, it actually makes perfect sense to want to kill the parent who did not protect you.
@@cwalker6911 I'm happy to have someone actually agree with me. Thank you.
Again, another case of someone who was abused and traumatized in childhood and who then violently acted out. Society's standard response is to absolve itself of any responsibility for the situation and instead punish the victim of the abuse. This response fails to address the root cause of the problem, which is that poor, dysfunctional parenting leads to serious problems when the children grow up. The only real solution is to start making sure that all our children grow up in a safe, loving and nurturing environment.
Good point.
If her mother did what Ashley said . I can understand . As a mother you protect your child at any cost.
I agree with your analysis the majority of the time, but really have to disagree with you this time. She killed them for way more reason than just wanting to run off with her boyfriend, deep reasons and emotions. The violence and rage of the attacks alone prove that. She could have snuck out of the house if she just wanted to be with her BF so badly. I wish Ashlee good fortune in the future, she will be 39 or 40 when released.
That's not an argument. Its happened more than a few times, teens killing their parents to be with a boyfriend, so her ability to sneak out of the house to see him, doesn't prove anything. There's no getting away from the timing of the attack. She killed them after being told she couldn't see her boyfriend. That alone could cause the rage that you think proves something. The only abuse we know of is the abuse being told by someone trying to salvage some time of their lives away from the confines of prison. Not saying it didn't happen but the possible motives for bringing such abuse to light, can't be ignored.
She didn't just want to run off with the boyfriend she wanted to be free of her parents and their control. Parental control is very different when there is abuse. It's not a normal healthy control and it's not about the safety and wellbeing of the child either.
Agreed..she would've run off with anyone showing her love at that point.
At 17, I suspect the authorities would have left her alone if she had left home with boyfriend, but her sisters would still have been in danger. Overkill with a knife isn't always about rage. A knife isn't an efficient killing method for an amateur, so sometimes the killer uses multiple but ineffective stabs. I'm assuming that she didn't have time to reload the shotgun as her mother may have come to the aid of the husband. If she had stopped at stepfather, given the circumstances, she may not have done much time. Maybe not any time.
I completely agree. This was not about seeing the boyfriend. She would have just done that.
When I read about cases like this I’m always puzzled why a woman would bring a man like that into her child’s life. You would have to be desperate for a man to overlook his past.
And to overlook their children's present.
The fact that Ashlee said she feels safe in prison says a lot about the situation she was in. I lived with anger toward my mother for enabling my abuser for a long time. Not sure exactly what saved me from doing what Ashlee did. I hope she finds some sense of positive purpose by the time she is released.
Her mother being an active participant in her sexual abuse is just horrific. Being abused by her caregivers made her completely lose concept of a safe family unit and seek safety elsewhere. How awful.
T - every young women uses this as a defense. Again it’s the boy that cried wolf. So many false allegations, who can you believe?
@@cjjohnson9413 true just like people who attribute someone murdering a bunch of people because of bullying. But tbh you really never know but even so still doesn’t make it right.
Totally agree with you. She should have gotten a medal, not prison.
This is what the murderer said to the police after she killed her mother and her mother’s boyfriend. Very convenient. We do not know if that happened, and I have considerable doubts that it did. Ashley tried out several stories to see what would stick. And guess what. She just happened to land on the most sympathetic possible set of circumstances - the gold standard of manipulation.
@@stt5v2002 the bf sounds like a real piece of work...but yeh Ashley is a conniver and was messing with a adult male
A mother's most important job is to protect her offspring. Above all else. While not excusing murder, I understand Ashlee's rage and feelings of betrayal --I survived a mother that never protected me. Thankfully, I found help & a way out, and to forgiveness - for my own mental and spiritual wellness. And as a mother now, I'd kill to protect my sons. 💔
Stepfather beat the mom not her
@@THE-id1by she'd been abused earlier, as well. Mom didn't protect her.
Untill said sons get drafted for WW3...
It's people like you who make ppl who have bad things happen to them , that makes it so much worse ... perhaps if you stop laying out a hallmark lifestyle for what suppose to be , ppl like Ashley wouldn't feel so much rage when things happen , and further ruin their lives ...
They could deal much better if ppl stop pretending everyone's lives are hallmark .
Me too
I accepted a second date with a guy for lunch. He seemed interesting and nice enough during our first date,, but he was rude to our server on the second. Even before we ordered our entrees, I left and never spoke to him again. I don't understand women who will get involved with and tolerate rude, aggressive, violent, and domineering men.
And force their children to tolerate abuse.
Ashlee's mother was as psychopathic as her series of boyfriends, and, as is common in these situations, she "supported" her partner's behaviour at the expense of her own children. I can see why Ashlee killed her with such violence and malice. She was indeed a severely damaged child. I think the sentence was appropriate. She will hopefully have time in prison to come out, still in her 30s, and have time to have a more positive life.
prison makes you worse not better
I could imagine living a life of such abuse no wonder she freaked i would tell her don't worry you might be in prison but your mother and step father went to hell
@@matt566partially depends on how a person spends their time in there.
Not sure why this family had 1 kid, let alone 4 combined. Ashlee's health and well being should have been her mother's priority. Instead, she married an abusive man. Honestly, I am tired of reading about divorces, young kids, endless boyfriends and family abuse/dysfunction. I wish all these screwed up parents would have thought twice before having babies.
Right on
The mother was to blame for enabling the violence and sexual abuse. I know they shouldn't have been murdered but then if you break the law you eventually reap what you sow. Who says the abuse didn't extend to the other sisters. I imagine in a few years it will come out because a violent abuser doesn't stop at one victim. Its an endless pursuit of a depraved pervert.
the mother didn't protect her. she didn't deserve death, but she let her daughter's abuse continue.
I hate to say it but Ashley’s mother was not an innocent victim. She subjected her daughters to years of abuse and seeing her abused. She put Ashley in risky situations and seemed to “stand by her man” over and above the well being of her daughters. I could see how there would be pent up rage.
as a victim of csa, i totally get what ashley did, to probably a unhealthy extent. she slayed … literally. i feel like only people who have experienced that will truly understand it.
With all the abuse she endured most likely she was sick of their crap to abuse her and then some creep shows her actual affection and they try to take that away from her. It's sad and it's why everyone shouldn't be allowed to just willy nilly have children. Some people based on their actions need to be investigated when children exist near them. It's ridiculous. Killing is bad but so is a lifetime of abuse. Sad all around.
I wonder how the other children are now. I hope they are alright.
Ashley stabbed her mother. Stabbing suggests a personal, and sexual component. Ashley blamed her mother for not protecting her. She may have been frustrated Tom's death was too quick and easy. Out of frustration, she took out her frustration that he did not suffer adequately on her mother, and subsequently her mother's body after death, inflicting upon it injuries she wished she could have perpetrated upon Tom as he was dying.
It's clear that she did not see her mother as a victim in any way, although it's clear she was, and was trauma bonded to someone who sounds suspiciously psychopathic (cruelty to animals, lacking remorse at mistreating others). Children can be as angry, if not angrier, at the parent who stands by and allows abuse to happen, because they know that parents knows what is happening is wrong, yet does nothing.
I was going to say, my father abused me and I still have so much hatred towards my mother because she chose not to protect me. Looks like I’m not alone there…
The stepfather’s fate reminds me of the old tired cliche “what goes around comes around”.
All we know is the mother had a history of dating criminals. Your comment is pretty sick to be honest
The old tired cliche is an ass being made out of you for assuming
Her mother was 100% to blame, just like the sickos that abused her. I have zero compassion for these abusers and enablers.
I agree with your analysis and I completely understand the rage she felt against her mother. I don't think the children give the abusive father/stepfather/boyfriend a pass, but feel more anger against the mother for bringing and keeping an abuser in to their lives. Children expect their mothers even more than their fathers to protect them, not serve them up to an abuser. Psychologically damaged from the start. Such a sad case.
@Dr. Todd Grande Today's question is, can you analyze the case of Linda Wilson? Linda was arrested in 2017 for the murder of her husband. (Her husband was found in the basement, buried underneath a pile of newspapers. The autopsy revealed that he had numerous lacerations from a sharp object, possibly a meat cleaver or large knife.)
@@yellowjacket5995 OMG & LOL! Not me :-)
Mothers often make poor decisions when finding future partners and they put their children at extreme risk by doing this. They also put themselves at extreme risk.
I agree. Responsible parents put their kids first.
The freedom bit... so true. Once you are away from the mistreatment, it is 100% different. Yes, I believe a person would still feel freedom in jail.
There is a Spanish saying that goes, "Raise crows and they will peck your eyes out." These two raised her and she became that way. 23 years sounds apt for this crime.
Uh only not sure they raised her. I think she went to live with them at 16??
No, they all moved together to Wisconsin when she was 16.
She should have gotten life without parole. Ashley is a danger to society.
She should have gotten off. He killed her dog.
@@clearjr1 I find it crazy that everybody is justifying this monster who killed the woman who gave her life. Anybody who has murder in them is just not right.
That's not to say that the parents weren't horrible. They deserved prison, too.
Not to excuse Ashlee, but her mother had a lot to blame in allowing undesirable men in and out of their home. Ashlee developed so much rage inside of herself from her mother not protecting her and for allowing harmful situations with men the mother was dating. The mother wanted men in her life so her daughter was a secondary concern. Yes, Ashlee didn’t like how her mom’s bf treated her Mom, but that only added fuel to the flame. Neglectful parents need to be held partially responsible to their minor children’s behavior. Ashlee both loved and hated her mother. How horrible of a life! Her mom should’ve given up her children for someone else to raise them. The mother wanted to live life as if she didn’t have children. I blame the mother at least 50% for all the years of her having creepy boyfriends and allowing them to do creepy things with her daughter. No wonder Ashlee had an older boyfriend. She wanted rescuing from her home and wanted away from a horrible mother who did not protect her. There comes a boiling point when we snap. I can’t imagine the betrayal Ashlee felt from her mom who chose men over her children. 😭 Not sure how our judicial system could handle these cases, but just because the gun is fired from your hand doesn’t mean there was no reason behind it. As an elementary teacher I see children who are in distress from negligent parents. The cards are stacked against them to become a well-adjusted adult. It’s heartbreaking to see the lives some children HAVE TO live. Very sad!
As a person who once was a teenage girl in this situation with a mother who was also an abuser due to borderline personality disorder in addition to the other circumstances Ashley allegedly suffered, I couldn't disagree more with your assessment, and that's a rare thing for me.
I sympathize with the need for escape, and doubt the boyfriend was as much of a motivation for leaving as you've made him. If I lost my car I'd lose my mind, since it meant I couldn't easily escape my abusers. Just having the option of driving away was what kept me going. If I was trapped, I'd self harm rather than lash out, because I had a different personality and didn't have access to firearms at that time. (I couldn't overpower my parents and leave of my own volition; she could.)
I would have done the same thing, and I can tell you exactly why. If my parents hadn't had a locked gunsafe I couldn't access, I'd be in her place.
Thank you for sharing this.
I wish you a great life. Please love and value yourself. Sorry for what happened to you.
People who grow up in happy homes think everyone else does. Violence is an aberration committed by a "bad" person. If you have suffered physical or mental abuse, the rage lives on for years. There are two paths, either recognize the problem and get assistance or take it out on the world. It requires a level of self awareness that some people just don't possess. This girl is where she should be, and so are the parents.
My big brothers who were abused and beat by my dad would get into his unlocked guns in the basement and shoot up the basement pretending like it was him. That's pretty close and it's a good reason you should never have firearms in the house with teenagers
Thank you for the honesty!
I do not think it is difficult to understand why Ashely killed her mother; she probably just snapped and could not handle one more thing. Her mother literally "pimped her out" and also stood by and allowed her to be abused. Ashley may have seen running away with her boyfriend as her only option; one for which she would kill. I hope that she gets the treatment she needs to heal her trauma and to live a peaceful life.
Well those victims were not a great loss, now maybe the younger siblings stand a chance at a beter life. She had better excuses than most to be a killer.
RE: stabbing her mother vs shooting the stepfather, i thought exactly what Dr. Grande did - that she primarily blamed her mother for her problems. But one of my male family members piped up that she probably didn't know how to RELOAD the double-barrel shotgun. Made me think...
Based on biology, she would necessarily blame the mother more. The stepfather, in biological terms, is a stranger with no real blood ties or familial responsibility to her. Whereas, her mother who birthed her was tasked with protecting her.
This isn't about rebellion. Both parents extremely violent, abusive, needing freedom from abuse was the motive. I agree with court. Dr Todd way off.
Sadly I once had a girlfriend whose mother let the father do horrible things to her. However how this effected her feelings for her mother was the opposite of the 17 year old girl in this case. She actually became fully subservient to the mom and would do anything she told her to do and this was more then 20 years after the abusers death.
I was disgusted that a mother would allow that to happen to her daughter and I was even more disgusted when I found out the mom knew but did nothing. Yet her mom had this bizarre control over her even though the girl I dated knew all that stuff. I often wonder what she was thinking when talking to her mom and how she truly felt about her. Wether she was a prisoner? A willing prisoner or something else. She also had a habit of staying with horrible people and getting rid of those that treat her well not just boyfriends but also friends. I often wondered if it was a personality disorder.
Your last sentence applies here: there's a "nick" between two people, and sometimes it's good: (one manages money well, the other knows how to make it; but ALSO knows to let the spouse manage the numbers) as an example. Personality-wise, one disorder or "need" attracts bad boys, and sends the nice ones away.
It's a trauma response. She was just a child desperately looking for the love and approval of her mother, to try to heal the abuse. Sometimes people don't react with rage or hatred, but with people pleading and codependency. People with complex trauma also seem to get drawn towards people that remind them of their abuser because their abuser was also entangled with love, family or familiarity
Personality Disorder would need more information about her to make that call, but it definitely sounds like she has an Adjustment Disorder.
Both, the mother and daughter chose men over each other. Classic.
"Shotgun-facilitated family structure modification". My gosh that's brilliant!
No one got what they wanted. Everyone got what they deserved.
Yes, it’s worse! Failure to protect is more painful then predatory abuse.
She wasn't protected and was put in a situation with this abuser. Who wouldn't reach a point where they felt they had to do something drastic if no-one else would.
I think that there were probably more abusive “stepfathers” in her life along with the two mentioned.
Most stepfathers are abusive I had 3 stepfather and all 3 were abusive
Such a dark, disturbing case all around!
I cannot believe that her own mother caused such terrible, life long harm to her own daughter. A mother has been said to be the fiercest animal when protecting her children....
Also, I really don't feel one bit sorry for her steo-father's death- he killed the family dog and was a terrible person. .
I really feel sorry for her three sisters!
Maybe her sisters are living a better life without that sexual abuser who killed their dog. Maybe she was protecting them.....
I feel sympathy for her sisters but also realize their lives may have been drastically different today had Ashlee not removed that monster from their home.
I hope people will look into this case further. This is such a horrible example of what really happened. These children were so severely and sexually abused as well. Ashlee did everyone a favor, especially her younger sisters. Her mom turned on her. This has NOTHING to do with her boyfriend. But all about Tom and his abusive and controlling actions.
No excuse for what she did but with how she was treated how are people surprised it ended like this?
If he killed my dog I would probably kill him. And I would normally not kill even a fly.
Sounds like the mother and daughter just didn’t like each other. Plus the mother seem to like dating criminals so that says something about her.
I hope she will get therapy while in jail so at minimum she will not hurt anyone else when released.
I think it would be great if you stop referring to the biological mother and husband (non-bio father) in the home as “parents”. They were not parents… They were abusers. The mother was passively compliant with her daughters abuse as evidenced by her daughter, growing up to become a sociopath. The victim becomes the abuser.
This is what I was thinking. They forfeited the claim of parents long before the murder. Jennifer allowed the abuse, so carries equal blame. If Ashlee wasn’t extremely disturbed by her environment, she would have realized she could skip the murder part and just run away. The police would have made less effort to find her.
Thank You for stating this. This really bothered me as well.
It amazes me that the sisters were able to fall asleep the night they saw their mom getting stabbed to death.
The children were probably in shock and may have used sleep as a way to escape from the horror of the situation.
@@cht2162 interesting. A moment of relief (a night's sleep) before a different nightmare begins
If you grew up in this kind of horrible house you get use to anything
They were probably relieved that their nightmare home life was finally over.
Amazing that no neighbors called the cops after hearing two shotgun blasts.
I'm glad you gave some special attention to the abuses she went through as a child, in this case, including sexual.
If it's true that her mother sent one of her boyfriends to give Ashley a bath and go into her bedroom at night, of course she'd have rage building up. This is more than just wanting to get her way.
Ah, another case of the ol' "shotgun facilitated family structure modification".
🤣🤣🤣🤣
It’s no surprise that children who are repeatedly r*ped and abused for years finally snap when no one, not a single teacher, counselor, parent, or adult, does a damn thing about it. I’m of the camp that 23 years is too long for this young woman, who had already spent her whole life in a prison the day she finally decided to get out.
How is this not victim-blaming?
Happy Sunday Dr. Grande & audience! Proud Patreon Supporter! ❤
Tysvm for your hard work and dedication!
The case analysis is amazing.. I wound up in a fairly heated discussion about my opinions on Ashley so hearing your thoughts resonated..
Have a safe and beautiful day! ✨✨
Wow. What a terrible story. Ashley was so young when she murdered. It sounds like her upbringing was hell & most certainly would nurture rage & hate in a child. I can't find any sympathy in my heart for these "parents". Of course it must have seemed the height of hypocrisy to Ashley that her parents ruled out an older boyfriend. I hope Ashley will choose prison courses that will help her forgive & heal from the past. People can & do change.
Re: 7 year old, Athena Strand Fort Worth, TX kidnapped by the FedEx delivery guy! Killed within an hour! Any opinion Doc? 😭
There's a reason Dr. G waits until cases have long been concluded most times. There is nothing to cover on a case that has just happened most times, and waiting for all the info to come out makes for a much better video.
Hey Doc, would you please look into the case of Vietnam veteran Andrew Brannan and police officer Kyle Dinkheller? It’s a really sad murder case which highlights the problems veterans face with PTSD and how they were treated when they came home. Thanks :)
Tragic story all around. I would have a hard time empathizing with that mother too. I'm not really the murdering type though.
How about a personality and personality disorder analysis of the fictional character James Bond?
I don't think you can say one way or another that it was premeditated or that she did it specifically to be with her boyfriend. Saying she wanted to kill them both can attributed to teenage angst. She very likely was planning on killing herself. Honestly, her step-father, an enraged man with a history of violence, she could easily have felt like he was about to start beating her so she shot him in self-defense. Her mother had possibly been complicit in previous assaults on Ashley thereby showing that she cared more about her boyfriends' desires and well-being than those of Ashley. It's entirely possible that she introduced the knife to situation. It's equally possible that her mother did attack her over it. And her mother attacking her could easily cause her to become enraged and prompt her to commit matricide
Either way, yes, she did kill them both. But I don't think it can be proven that it was a premeditated. Why stab her mother, when she easily could have reloaded the shotgun, or had another gun handy? It's far more likely that she was thinking about killing one person, either herself or the step-dad. She waited for her mom to come upstairs, instead of seeking her out. She didn't have a plan. And as far as her contacting the boyfriend, all that really proves is that she trusted him and felt like he could help her, not that she did it just to be with him.
Thank you for your comment. I felt that to call the murders premeditated was off. As in, couldn’t be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
And that the sole motivation was to be with her boyfriend? That doesn’t seem clear either. And your comment…or we could call it an argument… would be considered completely possible to me if I were a juror. And possibly more probable.
After hearing what kind of garbage person Ashley’s stepfather was and had always been known to be and how her mother-a victim herself but a complicit contributor to the abuse and a woman who considered every man she had in her life a priority over her children ? That’s a betrayal that hits hard. Deep. Adolescence is an almost constant state of true chemical imbalance and there are times when adolescents are simply not rational at all times. Even if they “know” right from wrong. Abused children know plenty about what’s not right because they experience that repeatedly. Rage can take over in a nanosecond. An abused child can feel absolute contempt for a mother who allows herself to be a victim and becomes an abuser and victimizer of her own children ( especially her DAUGHTER/S ) in spite of knowing how it feels herself. It’s a huge and reprehensible betrayal. I feel contempt for Jennifer myself but as an older person I can recognize that there’s years of generational abuse, toxicity and dysfunction and that’s a potent and volatile combination. It leaves me feeling like there’s no end of victims. Just awful.
I truly hope this young woman can get the help she certainly deserves and I do believe that she can be rehabilitated. She’ll have to want it because the good ole usa has a skewed (at best) vision and version of rehabilitation and will do little to actually rehabilitate. The system doesn’t seem to understand that being “locked up”, which is a form of shunning, IS the punishment. After that? Everything should be about true rehabilitation.
But we’re still, sadly enough, stuck. Which is the reason for high recidivism statistics. A prison in this country is, all too often, a great college to attend to encourage and educate convicted criminals to be better criminals or more violent than before. It’s just sad and I am confused as to why people don’t understand that the system needs to change. I’m comfortable with Ashley’s sentence. I hope she is resilient enough to want to use the time and the very limited resources available to her to become a productive human being who IS worthy of being valued and loved.
Btw, If anyone gets through all this? TY. I tend to get pretty caught up in cases like this. Because it is not black and white. And it’s so very tragic.
I’m really rooting for Ashley. Wonder if I could ask to send her the occasional letter telling her that I am absolutely rooting for her? Small things like that can make a big difference. Thanks again to anyone who read this long comment and I need to point out my use of all caps in some words was for emphasis and not yelling. All the best!🙂
i do hope the siblings
are seeking treatment, support, care & LOVE.!
they do richly deserve.! ☺️😊
as for the additional players in this saga.
zero interest.!
🤘🏻🇦🇺🌏✌🏻
Society failed to protect her. She should never have been kept with that woman.
I find it hard to be as objective as Dr Grande as there's a level of compassion I have for neglected children, it really does have a long lasting, deeply disturbing effect. This is probably the most extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to homicide, but there's also a lot that end up in drug addiction, prostitution and leading terrible lives. Don't deny she did it for some almost minor reasons but I'd argue there's a fairly long list of extenuating circumstances and then being tried as an adult I'm not sure I agree with.
Almost sounds as if you're making an excuse for a cold blooded murderer.
Her mother was for sure 100% to blame and this is the case for all parents when it comes to the suffering of their children really. Think twice before having kids - and then don't!
You seem to have less empathy for Ashlee than you expected Ashlee to have for her mother. Ashlee was 17, abused all her life, and she’s supposed to have a fully developed empathetic self?
Maybe she “wanted to be with her boyfriend” because she did feel safe with him. Certainly her mother was not offereing her any safety.
As far as the stepfather is concerned, too bad the justice he received took so long. Otherwise, we might not even be here.
Have watched a number of your videos; today is my last one. Her sentence seems reasonable.
Peace, thanks for the insight i have gotten in the other of your videos
great comment
"Disrespecting the authority of her parents" ... is dr grande saying things like this to get a rise out of the viewer with the intention to generate more video interactions, comments etc? This seems like a pretty tone-deaf take that lacks a lot of empathy. It's difficult to imagine he actually feels that way, based on his older videos which seem to demonstrate a higher capacity for empathetic and nuanced takes. I miss his older content which felt more honest and less about gaming the youtube algorithm.
It's so odd thinking about being killed by your own spawn. The human that you helped procreate with another person with. Such an odd feeling to know that it's possible that you can be killed by your own child. It's so sad.
Reminds me of the what the Hernandez brothers said about their case, it was a mistake to have killed their mother. I'm sure their fellow convicts agree, they look down on that too.
Shotgun-facilitated family restructure modification.
On March 7, 2015, one day after her seventeenth birthday, Ashlee Anne Rose Martinson of Piehl, Wisconsin was kidnapped off of the side of a public road by her former stepfather, Thomas Harold Ayers, in his vehicle; brought back to the house she'd just permanently left as an emancipated minor (plus 1 day); and was then falsely imprisoned by Ayers in her former bedroom, with the knowledge and consent of her abusive mother, and with Ashlee's three younger sisters in the home, aged 9, 8, and 2. Ashlee had left the house minutes earlier with a bag of her belongings, on foot, because Ayers had stolen her cellphone and the keys to her truck, which was fully paid for by Ashlee from her after-school job earnings. When Ayers attempted to enter Ashlee's room to beat her, she used unannounced lethal force to kill her assailant with his own shotgun. Her mother then shouted an expletive, as witnessed by the three younger sisters who were with Jennifer Ayers in the downstairs kitchen at the time that the single shot went off; ran halfway up the stairs, grabbing a decorative knife from a shelf; and attacked Ashlee with it, even as Ashlee had already dropped the firearm in shock. Crime scene photographs showing Jennifer's body at the top of the srairwell also corroborate Ashlee's, and the younger sisters', account. Wisconsin, which originally sought a sentence of 40 years, settled for the sentence of 23 years, five of which Ashlee has already served. Ashlee's appeal, and subsequent appeal to the Wisconsin Supreme Court for a reduced sentence, under the argument of insanity, has been predictably, and conveniently for the State of Wisconsin, repeatedly denied. But, Ashlee was never insane at any time, and in fact the original prosecution argued this, and even discarded its own original charge of premeditation. What's left but self-defense, if Ashlee was not insane, and did not premeditate? Her self-defense witha firearm was reasonable, and legal. Yet, Ashlee's bond for killing her adult male kidnapper and abuser, as well as her mother, who had been effectively sex-trafficking Ashlee for over four years, and between two men, after she'd attacked Ashlee first, with a knife and with intent to kill, was set at $750,000. Ashlee was always described, and continues to be described, by her former friends and classmates as funny, stylish, creative, and with a bubbly personality, who "would keep things to herself because she didn't want make others feel bad." Ashlee was an abused girl brought to the precipice, in large part, through negligence by Wisconsin, and was not an irredeemable danger to society. Why didn't Wisconsin ever perform a single surprise welfare check on the home, which contained four female minors, at least eight loaded illegal guns, and a felon pedophile with a vrey long rap sheet? Why are officials preventing journalists from filming Ashlee directly, in particular for the recent documentary performed by Crime Watch? Why did Captain Terri Hook of Oneida tell her community that "they had no reason to be afraid" and that she "believed this was an isolated incident?" For the killings to have been an isolated incident, wouldn't that mean that they would have had to have been a fluke without warning-- either a result of sudden acute insanity, or premeditation? Why wasn't the fact that Ashlee had been kidnapped after waiting patiently and responsibly for her emancipation date taken into consideration during her defense?
Ashlee Anne Rose Martinson
Ashlee Martinson
Thomas Ayers
Thomas Harold Ayers
Vampchick
Piehl, Wisconsin
Oneida County, Wisconsin
Captain Terri Hook
Detective Brian Barbour
Jennifer Ayers
Wisconsin Supreme Court
Second Amendment
Castle Doctrine
Wisconsin Castle Doctrine
child abuse
sex trafficking
sex trafficking of minors
self-defense
false imprisonment
straw man
I've got to disagree with you on this one Dr. Grande. No child should have to deal with parents like that. After what she went through, that young lady deserves the compassion the court showed her. Anyone who feels safer in prison than at home has had too much trauma. I hope she gets the help she needs.
Saw this story on "Beyond Evil" TH-cam channel. They painted a different picture of the situation, showed interviews with her younger sisters describing the abuse, said that Ashlee and her mom wanted her to move out when she turned 17 but step-dad wouldn't allow it, that mom had become abusive as well, that law enforcement had been of no help in a previous situation, the kids were never allowed to have friends over, etc. With all due respect to Dr. Grande, it seems very much to me like self-defense. If her mom hadn't come at her with a knife, Ashlee wouldn't have killed her. She showed remorse. Step-dad never ever should have had custody of children based on his past criminal record. Terrible case. But she saved herself and her sisters and for that I think she was a hero. She also left her sisters a cell phone when she put them in a room with food and juice to keep them from seeing the carnage.
This was a very dysfunctional family. The mother never stepped up to protect her daughter from boyfriend or stepfather. That makes the mother just as guilty as the actual abuser. Ashely, for her part, was simply trying to protect herself in the only way she knew how. In her environment while growing up she was never given the tools that would enable her to make rational decisions. Ashley does not deserve to be in prison and needs to be in a half-way house where she can learn how to navigate through the challenges of life. She will never get this training while incarcerated.
Having lived with a mother who was happy to leave me out to dry, was abusive and failed to ever side with me I actually get why she stabbed her mother. She was just sick of her and having a boyfriend you start thinking my mum actually is more concerned about sex than me and then to the mum probably called her all kinds of names for shooting the man and she just lost it. I've not killed my mum, I've just cut her off but that's because I'm a rational adult not a hormonal teen. I did beat my mum up once though. So yeah not saying what she did was right just that I get it and think 23 years ia ample. People need to understand the deep effect that child abuse has on its victims and stop judging those victims based on what a rational person would do, if what happens to you isn't rational how do you expect to think rationally?
Ashlee, being the oldest, with no maternal support, seemed essentially without any support at all after nearly a decade of physical and emotional abuse and neglect. The one person she had was her 22 year old boyfriend, and they took that away from her ON HER BIRTHDAY. How could you not snap?!
it's interesting that 5 years difference in a consensual relationship is suddenly a problem for someone who introduced a much older predator into their household and let him attack her own children...
Excuse me, Dr.Grande do you speak from real life experience or based off what you were taught in a classroom? As an abuse survivor that endured abuse on a daily basis. I can tell you speak from your classroom teachings and not real life experience.
I'm pretty sure the state went with a plea agreement mostly because: 1. With that kind of family history, a sympathetic jury might (in my opinion, quite rightly) let her off easy or at least easier than the deal, and: 2. They just couldn't work up any kind of effort to spin a narrative that might play in court to a jury to get them to empathize with these two "victims". Prosecutorial discretion to proceed with a case is a sword that cuts both to overzealousness in some cases and to apathy in others, this seems more like a punt down the middle of the road.
Well, someone brought these abusive guys into the home showing no empathy for Ashley. Then allowed them to remain in the home after the abuse occurred. It would have to seem intentional and targeted at her from Ashley perspective. Ashley had to be thinking can't my mom find a guy that doesn't want to have sex with me and use me as an ashtray? I don't condone Ashleys acts of violence but completely understand why she did.
She likely stabbed her mother bc of the anger built up from choosing these sleazbags ahead of her children. I can speak from personal experience although I never reacted violently and don’t condone it, I can understand.
Not so fun fact, the same judge that sentenced this abused kid to 23 years in prison also sentenced a man who killed his friend in a drunk driving accident to 3. Lmao this justice system is pure comedy.
This is absolutely the mother's fault. I can attest that, some women are simply drawn to violent losers as are moths to a flame, and they don't care who it hurts - even if it is their own kids. My father always told me that there is nothing on earth better than a good woman, and that the very best of men could never compare to one. He also said however, that sorry women had no equal, and that they would do things that would make a sorry man cower in shame. Most of the advice he gave us during his lifetime turned out to be solid.
What an absolutely horrible story!
All this because of the age of the boyfriend? Unbelievable!
A year later, she could have been dating a 60 year old and there is absolutely nothing her mother and stepfather could have done to stop her from doing so.
A 17 year old dating a 22 year old is pretty common. I think they were trying to control her a little too much
17 is legal in most states /countries, no?
i was 17 and my boyfriend was 23... way too controlling especially since stepfather was sexually abusing her
And the mother who stayed with the stepfather being complicit in the abuse
The murders weren’t justified, however Ashlee’s mother did not protect her or behave as a caregiver.
This one hit close to home-I can empathize with Ashlee. To be honest, I can understand her rage. And it’s possible that she had conflicting feelings about her mother-maybe she hated seeing her mother as a victim but still blamed her mother for betraying her. When her mother didn’t take her side after the murder, maybe that tipped the scales. She had already decided to commit murder-a second one wasn’t that big of a step. WhatI don’t understand is her being so self centered that she didn’t take into account the effect her actions would have on other people. Even if she couldn’t empathize with her mother and stepfather, what about her sisters? It must have been horrible for them to go through that. She should have cared about that. Thanks for sharing this case with us Dr Grande.
She might have thought that she was saving them from a life of abuse at the hands of these “PARENTS”. I hope that her siblings go on to a healthier home and happier lives. This household should have had the children removed before it got to this point.
Please analyze the Carr brothers from Wichita Ks. Would be really amazing to hear your take on this case.
Dr. Grande might take a look at a case from rural CA, Cameron Hooker. Hooker kidnapped Coleen Stan as a sex slave, torturing her and keeping her shut up in a box, with cooperation from his wife, whom he had also abused. After 7 years, the wife became less under her husband's control and helped Stan escape. The wife testified that Hooker had murdered hitchhiker Marie Elizabeth Spannhake the previous year, and that she helped him bury the body in Lassen National Park. Hooker was never charged for this murder. He has been released on parole but was certified as a mentally disordered sex offender, and is undergoing mandatory treament at Atascadero SH.
Am I missing something? What did Ashley do that deserved imprisonment?
Children learn what they live ☠️
I feel for her. Glad she only got 23 years. She took out shitheads.
Sad case for everyone in the story . The mother is responsible for choosing wrong partner 😢
He sexually abused her and her mother let it happen.
Unfortunately Dr.Grande is not so professional when he talks about child's crime, but he knows a lot about adults. Her mother let her suffer by bringing in a dangerous person.
Regardless of her state of mind at the moment of the killings she seriously endangered three children by confining them in a room, abandoning them and not returning to release them over the following day.
Hello, Dr. Grande - could you please cover: (a) the case of the 15 yo teenage boy who killed a few people, including a female runner and his older brother, in Raleigh in the tail end of 2022? Also, could you please discuss: (b) the 2016 case of the actor Michael Jace ("The Shield"), who is serving life in prison for killing his wife (I believe he was enraged at the time). I loved his acting in the show and was horrified when I heard what happened. Finally, can you please find out what happened: (c) a few years ago when a young woman hit a man with her car, he ended up being trapped in the windshield, dying, and she drove home anyway (ignoring his cries for help) and parked the car in the garage and went inside the house. He ended up dying, of course, because she didn't get any help for him. What a prize she was! Thank you very much!
Here in Sweden teenagers who commit murder only get 4-5 years and are out after 2-3 years! They serve their sentence in special youth facilities where they have access to the Internet, play video games and have many recreational activities. It is not uncommon that some of these violent offenders break out of these "facilities of leisure" due to low surveillance. The judicial system in Sweden is a joke! 😁
The question is....... with the Family modifcation provide by Ashley will her younger siblings have a better lifes ? With good time Ashely will see about 16.5 years ..... so she gets out under 40 and could reunite with her sisters and .......Ya she got a great deal 16.5 years traded for mommy and daddy getting shorted aproxmently 35 years each = 70 years so the math is Ashley got off easy if you leave out the whole bad childhood stuff,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, frankly people that mistreat there childern should all be put on the same iland ( no food provided thye will work it out ).
It bewilders me when "parents" who are evil criminals think they are the ones who should assess & punish bad behavior. Bad behavior that likely wouldnt occur if the parents chose to be decent human beings & parents in the first place. Im not condoning murder AT ALL. Playing God is the WORST! Im only saying I'd expect no better behavior or outcome for Ashley under her circumstances.
The stepfather had been convicted of kidnapping, sexual assault and domestic abuse among other felonies, he was abusive to his children and Ashley's mother. Ashley's mother put Ashley in the home with abusive men all her life. I would be afraid she would only be convicted of Manslaughter if she got a sympathic jury - after all it just takes 1 juror. 23 years seems like a good result to me. But what do I know - I have only been a prosecutor for 25 years.