With so many watch channels out there producing similar content, I think you’ve found a distinct angle from which to discuss the hobby. Really thoughtful content, love it.
I love it. All these different companies have different strategies. Tissot’s strategy: let’s build watches that people want to buy! I love my Tissots, I have two of them.
Thanks again, Mike! There are very few utubers I follow that I know that require more than one pass to distill the insightful analysis that you routinely offer. Your “juice” is uniformly worth more than one “squeeze”! On behalf of so many of us, thank you!
This channel is going to get to 500k subs very quickly. Combination of no ads, no bullshit, no annoying videography along with really intelligent analysis which is something most channels can't or won't do. Clearly Mike has a well rounded resume which helps when discussing topics like this.
You are correct that Tissot just gave many people a watch that they wanted. They priced a watch at £400 which for most people is a weeks wage instead of a months or a years salary. Simply they looked at a very desirable design, produced a case shape and added a dial design that brought the look of a £40,000 watch into the scope of office workers. They really should have taken the PRX off the dial and put on AP ( Absolutely Plagiarised ). Pretty damn cheeky is you ask me but it does show what people really want but are happy to take a look -a -like. Me ? For this kind of money I prefer to buy something like a Seiko MOD, interesting, unique and keeps people working at home and in sheds gainfully employed. Power to the people not the big CONglomerates.
Was saving for JLC Reverso, they moved the goal by prices increase, I'm over JLC now, sold my Master Control and forget about this brand, connection lost, interest lost. Money goes elswhere, lately more into microbrands, as you well said here, microbrands have to try harder to deliever and compete at the 1 to 2k range this is where I found my joy now.
I like him and his videos, because he knows his stuff and even though he has probably worn Rolexes, he genuinely still understands the allure of a 60 dollar Swatch amd doesnt look down on the people wearing them.
Excellent analysis. I remain impressed by Swatch Group as the masters of segmentation and economies of scale. I imagine they're making a healthy margin on the huge volume of those entry level Omegas they're shifting. Even if they're nowhere near the average selling price of Rolexes. Plus Tissot is performing well in the toughest part of the market. And Longines had a solid year too.
Swatch have definitely better succeeded at tiering their brands compared to Richemont for example. Not everything is performing but they do broadly speaking know how to be a conglomerate 😊
You are right. The PRX is the watch people want. It seems like everyone either wants one or has one already. My question is, though, what comes next for Tissot after the integrated bracelet craze is over.
Just bought a Tissot chronograph this week. I wanted a good looking watch with a reliable, serviceable automatic swiss movement at a good price. Tissot checked all my boxes. Glad to hear they are up.
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Would it? Baume & Mercier Riviera is around half that and it has the same movement, thinner case, and a display caseback. I don't see what you're paying for with the Ingeniuer other than the logo on the front, which to me is not even that compelling of a brand.
Your extraordinary reviews deserves a better name for your channel...something simple, one word name that can be remembered....no one will tell someone else "have you seen this watch or that watch"? Give it a thought....you are in perfect time to do it....do it!
💯 - maybe one can walk in and get a better deal; just not something many of us want to do. A business school case on how not to bring new customers to your brand.
Seriously who the hell buys an IWC for that much?? They're damn near identical to how they're always been. Granted I haven't checked one out in about 5 years but I can't imagine the quality shot up with the price.
I really liked how Cartier watches looked in pictures. The other day I was in a store that had an extensive display of the current models. I was shocked to discover that I did not like any of them for real.
I've said this before but I think Cartier hold their spot simply because they have a perceived high value, most of the hot sellers cater to women buyers and visibility in smaller towns. You can find Cartier almost anywhere and I'm sure people buy the watches shopping for their other goods while someone would only buy an Omega or Tudor if they were specifically shopping for a watch.
I like the ladies ones because they are mostly dainty. The mens ones were just much larger than I imagined them, and the crystal on some of them looked odd to me.@@msk3905
Another absolutely brillant, spot on analysis. Congratulations! Unless I missed it, I am really surprised though that you did not mention Longines, which in my opinion fits your thesis of "if you make watches customers want, they will buy them" perfectly. I think it is the best value for money brand currently. As for IWC: I considered buying a Pilot chrono, but in the end I bought a Brellum (a micro brand I didn't know), which sells only online. The watch is amazing, arguably better finished than the IWC, for less than half the price. Having no marketing cost helps! And yeah, Rolex continues to nail it. Used to hate it, but 2 Subs later (and one OP on the wait-list) later, I love it.
Thanks 😊 Yeah. I cut out Longines for time. I didn't feel that there was a lot to add that wasn't covered by the general trend hitting the market and Swatch group in general. 😊
God I love you; not in an intimate way. Your spotlight on these brands truly exposes the intelligence and not so intelligent thinking of these conglomerate Swiss manufacturing board rooms! Keep up the amazing analysis; keep them honest 🙏🏼⌚️
Tissot is doing something right. I bought three this past year. A 35 mm PRX, a 40 mm PRX Digital and a Tissot Carson Gent 40 mm quartz. They are all gorgeous watches and I wear them in rotation with my other watches.
So so true Mike, great analysis. I also think it's hard for a brand to convince you to spend more to go up their product ladder, when the buyer losses more the moment you walk out the store. That's a key difference with the brands that convince you to spend more, as you either barley loose or gain in value on your purchase.
Thank you for the new video and the interesting topic. 👍JLC has increased its pricing considerably. I find the Memovox, for example, more than interesting and have put it on my wrist in a JLC boutique. But EUR 15.000,- feels a bit much for it...
Omega used to be the predominant brand in my collection. However, I have been losing more and more interest in their watches recently. Some models are way overpriced and with a very poor value retention. I don’t see watches as an investment, but I like to refresh my collection from time to time, so I only look at Omega in the preowned market. 30%-50% below retail price. Great video!
I fully agree, I used to have more Omegas than any other brand, but now I'm not interested. You can have 2 Omegas, and that is all that you need, a speedmaster moonwatch and a Seamaster Diver 300.
I can't tell you what to buy but I think you represent many of Omega's buyers. You see the value but you have been conditioned to view the brand as less than. Take the new white dial speedy for example there's nothing that they can do to make that watch better. At 8k there isn't one brand that sells a Chrono as iconic as it and with equal specs. Yet folks only remember the pre pandemic 5k cost of a non metas non coaxial speedy and want to pay the same old prices. I digress.
@@stanlob1223 Only a few years ago Explorers and Op were just as cheap. Times have changed. I'm this current market everything non Rolex or Trinity can be going for a deal.
The market has spoken! Its interesting to see all these fancy brands and how many people actually buy them how that reflects into profitability. I would love to see other brands as well like Casio, Seiko, Citizen. Have a great weekend Mike!
I remember asking my Rolex AD about getting a Pepsi or Batman-they said I’m more likely to get hit by lightning ⚡️! I ended up getting the 126711chnr Rootbeer. Great video as always and have a great weekend!😎
Good point regarding Tissot and what the industry should learn about. People buy what people like, at the end of the day. Apart some few exceptions watches as products are a luxury that the average consumer doesn't need, to convince people to buy them you need to give them something truly interesting and convince them to give you (watch maker) the few money they have spared. I really like what Tissot is doing and they have fun and interesting watches which for most buyers are the gateway for true swiss watches. The new PR516 (mechanic, quartzes are a bit a meh) is awesome, I see it appealing people interested in the history of the brand but also (most important) first/second time buyers of a swiss watch.
Brilliant video is always!! Completely agree with your points. I wonder what JLC could then do better going forward.. I love the Reverso but as you very well have said is quite niche.. are they missing a “better” every day watch or a diver perhaps? Those two categories seem to be the more popular ones.. I think the Polaris it is a good watch, but I don’t like it enough to buy one.. I wonder if a lot of people feel the same way. Curious what your thoughts are.. thanks for posting such thoughtful and excellent videos. Cheers!!
Was looking forward to this video since the MS report came out. Always appreciate your market analyses, Mike, and this one was insightful and thought-provoking as usual. Cheers!
Longines and Rado are both parts of the Swatch group. Oris, although a very cool company, has sales that round to 0% of the total Swiss luxury watch market. That is not an insult or hyperbole, it is literally what the Morgan Stanley report says.
@@frankhujsa821 I know Longines and Rado are part of Swatch, I wanted to know how they are performing as individual brands. We have the statistics for Tissot and Omega so this information must be available for other members of the group. I would expect Oris to be tiny unfortunately and Rado (and Certina) both to be well down the rankings, but Longines is traditionally a big hitter and should be well up in the top ten above Tissot.
My wife bought me a JLC Reverso for my 50th birthday a few months ago at the current retail price. If I only could have turned 50 a couple of years ago she would have saved a significant amount. However, I’ll take the years of life over the cost savings. ❤
JLC is uniformly loved by watch reviewers, and as you note they're clearly wasting this free franchise asset to promote their products better. Regarding Omega v. Rolex comparison, if you can't buy a "Speedy" in the showroom 6:40 you buy one pre-owned for less than retail, which you can't do with Rolex.
Excelllent analysis. Curious what kind of fresh direction you think might work for Omega. Should they be following Rolex’s strategy, perhaps Cartier’s strategy, or is there something else unique they can leverage to achieve new heights of growth?
That blue JLC perpetual calendar that keeps showing up in this video would be a dream come true for me. I wish I could afford it. Anyway thanks for your thoughts.
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I think that some collaborative spots with Adrian Barker or Andrew Morgan would be well received. They both write well and neither seems to be corrupted. Your business/branding perspective is not direct competition- so would only make for a richer discussion.
During the bubble of 2022-2023 there seemed to be no limit to how high prices could go; the higher the better. Now the bubble has burst, the economy is soft and the speculators have gone away, and many brands are left holding watches which are overpriced for this new market.
Agreed 💯 most brands had head in clouds thinking this would go on forever and raising by crazy % now like you say high prices on current models and not enough customers so what do they do now .....
6:40 I don’t get your point,with Omega you can can get a regular speedy, so why would you upgrade? It’s like if apple limited the production of iPhone so people could only find the 1TB at the store, sure a lot more people would “upgrade” because they have no choice and they want an iPhone, but how many customers would they lose? And is this what you really want?
I agree it's not as simple as offering upgrades. Rolex forces people to buy two toned and solid gold dj to get on lists for Op and submariner. So they are moving double the units using unfair practices. Imo the only way Omega can pass Cartier is if they make models that dominate the women's watch segment and start creating more wait-list for the popular models. Omega would have to sell 4x as many watches to compete with Rolex because the average cost is so low.
I’m curious about Christopher Ward. I didn’t like their earlier designs, but the keep getting better and the more I learn about the brand, the more I like what I hear. The Twelve will be my next watch.
Interesting takes… I would agree that JLC & Breitling might be perfect examples of when you hit the glass ceiling with extortionate pricing. TBC (of course). Within the volume brands it’s not only IWC that is badly run, but also Longines and TAG Heuer (LVMH as a whole, actually). Management shake-up badly needed, IMHO.
Excellent commentary. Thank you. You say, in regard to Tissot, "because they produce watches people want." Exactly. IMHO, when a micro brand launches a watch that is a success, say Baltic's line up, some of the Nivada Grenchen's (Antarctic sold out!), Vertex, that's because a major player, like Omega or Longines, has failed to "produce watches people want." I'm a lucky man and I'd be happy to pay a premium for a luxury brand. Yet they are not on offer. I love classic designs with historical provenance. Omega has this in spades if they would only re-issue modern interpretations of some of their best sellers. I simply don't care for open hands or shark teeth indices. Breitling, on the other hand, is doing well by offering classically beautiful designs that people are willing to pay a premium for. All the best to you. With luck, folks in C-Suites throughout the industry are paying attention to your videos.
The only YT channel on watches made in impeccable afrikaans accent and what's most important, not taking part of the watch industry, but serving the truth.
Great content, as usual. Thank you. Regarding Vacheron Constantin, I’ve felt for a long time that their reputation as ‘not quite a Patek’ is in some ways unjustified. When working on vintage to modern watches by both, the Vacherons almost always surpass Pateks in terms of finishing and build quality. That is no mean feat! A lot of what I’m talking about is hidden until you’ve started disassembling the watch, though. I guess this just shows that where these watches are concerned, the finishing and details only a watchmaker will notice play second fiddle to other factors when determining a brand’s place in the market. In terms of movement quality per dollar spent, Vacheron, especially vintage Vacheron are incredible value for money in my opinion.
SUPER Interesting, thanks again for a lot of sound thinking! I think your videos should be obligatory morning viewing for all Swiss watches marketing people. For most it would thoroughly spoil their day I guess😇
Just found this channel. Certainly agree with you regarding omega. The issue isn’t even just the precious metal but the “limited edition”. For example if you want a dateless Seamaster 300m it’s MORE expensive than the date version because of the James Bond relations. It’s same price as a Sub (ish) and that’s where a lot of people would walk, then get fed up at waiting for a Rolex and just go for another brand.
Excellent take as usual! It is ashamed that we don't have similar reports for Germans, British and Japanese watch brands. I can't help help but noticed that you have a 00 in the background. Is it a PG?
Great stuff as always Just a small note from the very beginning as to non-Swiss brands, particularly the Japanese. You mentioned Seiko and Casio, but forgot about Citizen, a large conglomerate, that owns Swiss brands and other Swiss watch-related companies.
Great video as ever. I don’t believe that brands like IWC, JLC ever forget about creating a compelling product; it’s always at the forefront of everyone’s mind. But you do need a bit of luck / magic to create something that resonates with the public and the zeitgeist. Like catching lightning in a bottle, it’s not easy.
good analysis... for me, personally, I am having more fun looking at some less expensive but interesting micro-brands... I had that idea that I would jump from Casio->Orient->Seiko->Sinn->Tudor were I am now and then progress to something more luxury... but f it... I got to eat...
Very interesting, thank you. Excellent points. Would love your thoughts on German, Japanese and Dutch (ie Gronefeld) watches compared to the Swiss industry
Mr. Mike I think you hit the nail on the head about premiumization with Rolex. I bought my first Tudor a couple of months ago (Ranger). Now I’m saving up for a Pelagos then eventually a Rolex. That would be my entire collection of only 3 watches. But Rolex will be the end goal.
Frankly speaking, i have rolex, omega, tudor in my collection. Just recently I bought USD 850 Tissot Heritage 1938 salmon dial. My excitement is the same with tissot when walking out of AD! Tissot did a great job lately.
I think the point about upgrade paths is facsinating. I also wonder if two tone is what people associate with a quintessential Rolex. Growing up, Rolex in my mind's eye was always a two toned datejust. I would consider a two toned Rolex before any other brands. I opted for a 114060 from my AD a few years back though.
I believe there is something to what you say. I have two two-tone rolexes, and I love them dearly. But, would I ever be inclined to spend money on a two-tone model from Omega, or Breitling, or IWC, etc?? I highly doubt that I would
I have too agree, I bought a Tudor Pelagos LHD love it, then a Blvgari octo, 2 moon swatches then finally got offered a Rolex datejust 41 Wimbledon, I think a lot of the watch companies believed there own hype, omega, panarai, iwc, etc, people buy them from their AD to get up the list for a Rolex
I refuse to spend thousands on a brand that spends millions on advertising at show jumping, golf , formula one, etc. I don’t want my money going there. And I’m anti-big corporations. I do have respect for Omega however. So. Great video. It’s education for me - as I wish I was able to go to the British Watchmakers event….
You really nailed it here. 💯. I strongly support your view. I want my money to go for the design and manufacturing of the watch and not for marketing or celebrity endorsement. Thar is why I am not interested in Rolex or Omega. Let alone the higher end brands.
Interesting comment about upgrade paths between rolex and omega but in my view it is far more a sub culture phenomena and differentiation factor between these two clienteles where one is more lets say extroverted than the other.
Interesting view for vast majority of the population. The ultimate market segment . . . the ultra wealthy do *quiet fashion* . . . Where a person has billions - there is no need to impress others - no fashion labels etc. This market segment is tiny
Tudor had several years when new models went to a premium on the secondary market. In the end buyers didn't want yet another Black Bay so demand, and hype secondary prices, fell. They need another winner that isn't BB based. The PRX must have a lot to do with Tissot's success. I bought the recently released 1938 Heritage COSC model. That has been under the radar like many Tissot releases. I got a significant discount. I'm sure they want to make what people want but can they come up with another PRX or get anywhere close?
Great video! I was looking forward to your take on the latest Morgan Stanley report. My thoughts: 1) Breitling has been on the rise since 2017 (when Georges Kern took over), moving from 19 to 9. Their product offerings have definitely improved. Will they be next to break the $1 billion sales threshold? 2) The Swatch Group accounted for nearly 75% of units sold, largely due to Swatch, Tissot, Longines, and Omega. However, their higher end brands (Blancpain, Breguet and Glashutte Original) continue to languish. They don’t seem to be getting much love. I’m a big fan of GO, but most folks have never heard of them. 3) I agree with your thoughts on the voluminous Omega catalog. Why so many models? 4) I wonder how accurate the sales estimates are. Do brands laugh when they read the report?
Sometimes I wish Swatch could/would sell Breguet to a conglomerate that would market them in a way, which would put them on the pedestal they deserve to be on. Breguet's offerings are every bit the quality you see from the big boys (i.e. Patek, AP, etc)
Great video, it would be interesting to see geographical segmentation on results. The relative economic buoyancy / brand penetration of Asia may be an interesting data point in why you are seeing some apparently non justifiable price increases
Thanks - And agree. There's a lot of geographical nuance. If you're interested (or just a nerd like me) - there's a freely available report from Deloitte on the watch industry. Just google it on their site. It has a lot of market insights including differences in buyer behaviour from region to region. cheers 😊😊
Excellent analysis. The difference in peoples willingness to upgrade with Rolex versus omega is interesting. For me, omega is synonymous with its tool watch offerings. I just really don’t have an interest in a precious metal version of a dive watch, so it’s steel/titanium or nothing for me. Rolex has more non-tool offerings that are compelling in a precious metal format. So I do wonder if it’s these that people are buying when the stainless steel submariner is unavailable or are they in fact buying the gold submariners? I suppose I should also clarify that for some reason in my head, the Speedmaster is a tool watch but the Daytona isn’t, but I am not sure that’s a symmetrical judgement.
The problem is twofold: 1) monetary value - because of the high cost, people confuse it with prestige and resale value and not what the watch was made for e.g. Tool watch - measure speed and so on and 2) Not understanding the watch - what makes a daytona different to a speedie. When I look at watches, I do the following 1) why do I want the watch:dress, sport or tool 2) is aesthetically pleasing 3) what's the movement like.. Now compare watches that fit all 3 and the make a choice. If you are worried about value buy one the holds value but you won't be measuring speed, instead it will be an occasional wear to show off. Or, buy the watch on secondary market below retail and use the watch as its been meant to be used and forget the price: it's for the long haul dummy!
Zut alor Mike, another smasher! Looking forward to your new Omega vid and I will observe Cartiers progress. I'm looking at a preowned quartz steel Bacculate for now from 2012 at $7,500 Canadian any comments on this watch? Other wise I will get a two tone Datejust or a Santos in Dec of this year. Thank you for your time. Regards, Chris
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch You sound like a fantastic dad! How about you combine the hobbies by customising a seiko diver with the colours of white/blue/red with a touch of yellow?
I know for me, buying a Rolex of any description is a “Field of Dreams!”😂 However, personally I’d take an Omega every day over a Rolex, & yes the new white dial Speedy has piqued my interest!😍👌🏼
I was told their new powermatic 80 is designed to be replaced and not serviced, and they put it in most of their watches, any truth to this? Troubling if true
The Powermatic movement inside is available in different versions / grade. The cheapest versions have "synthetic" parts. I spoke to a watchmaker a while ago and his view was that it was technically repairable. It's not like a Swatch Sistem 51 that cannot be taken apart, but the likelihood is that despite it being repairable it's likely cheaper to just chuck the movement and throw in a new one. 😃
Personally I'm not seeing a ton, but my AD has many models on display and is very open that anything in two-tone or from the classic line is something you can get almost immediately 😊
I don't know anything about watches, but I've been observing and reading about watches, the industry, brands, marketing and I've come to one conclusion: it's all a scam! Especially the so-called “luxury” brands are not worth the money they cost. And that goes for all kinds of things, not just watches. For me, I don't see much difference between a good Tissot watch and a Rolex or Cartier. I'm talking about differences in quality because each brand has its iconic designs. But for me, all of these watches will need maintenance someday and they will all last a lifetime if taken care of properly. And in the end it's all a question of quality and perception of prestige, which marketing is largely to blame for, as "luxury" spends millions to instill in people's heads that it is luxury and that is why it is different from everything else. For me Tissot is luxury because have the same quality as large "luxury brands" and the models are perfect in design. Am I right or wrong? I love the "Le Locle" Tissot series and I think is the perfect balance between excellent design and quality for my entire life. Someone enlighten me because I need a watch, I don´t have one!
There is an argument that for the "extra" you get in quality on a Rolex for example, you're proportionally paying way more for the marketing than the actual extra quality.. 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch yes, it´s what I think. I don´t like Rolex designs. I´m more Cartier and Longines type of design but I love the Tissot Le Locle. He has the same vibe... Thanks for the feedback!🙂
People are willing to buy premium Rolex models at retail a) because they won’t loose money down the road; b) to build relationship with an AD to be able to buy a desirable steel sports model, e.g. a Daytona.
Serious question: does ‘build the relationship’ really work at this pt? Unless you buy some ladies watch they can’t move, what have you done? The relationships were created long before the money printing, crypto money and social media entered the watch game. They’ll still sell every vanilla OP, Explorer they receive. And good luck ever getting a Daytona if you’re just starting now (unless you live in some area w/o a lot of HNWIs).
Not sure if building the relationship with AD works everywhere, but they definitely want you to believe it does. Reminds of Hermes where clients would buy just about anything for a slim change to get a Birkin bag.
@@WestCoastAce27 Even in the backwater area the AD will still most likely sell that steel Daytona to a special relationship customer- ie a "grey dealer" (meaning himself or a close family member). They don't just leave that kind of extra free money on the table for someone else. Why would they?
Scary to think that Breitling is owned by Venture Capital whose only goal is to increase short term profits at any cost: expect lower quality and higher prices in the future.
I would definitely agree with Tudor. It’s enough to see secondary market, you can get new watches for 20 to 30% off MRSP, that for me is an indication that something is not done well, pricing in my opinion.
If you build it, they will come. Absolutely right. The Black Bay was a big hit and the Tudor brand benefited. Now, it feels like the Black Bay's moment is over and Tudor's prominence will wane with it.
I see a long term issue for the Swatch Group with the Powermatic 80 movement. I believe the inability to locally adjust or repair the movement at a reasonable price will leave a bad taste with buyers within a few years.
With so many watch channels out there producing similar content, I think you’ve found a distinct angle from which to discuss the hobby. Really thoughtful content, love it.
very kind of you to say 😊😊
Says the birch master in polo.
I love it. All these different companies have different strategies. Tissot’s strategy: let’s build watches that people want to buy! I love my Tissots, I have two of them.
You've got the best watch channel by a mile. Great work!
Very. Very kind of you 😊😊❤️
Thanks again, Mike! There are very few utubers I follow that I know that require more than one pass to distill the insightful analysis that you routinely offer. Your “juice” is uniformly worth more than one “squeeze”!
On behalf of so many of us, thank you!
Lol 😂 Thanks 🤦♂️😊😊😊
This channel is going to get to 500k subs very quickly. Combination of no ads, no bullshit, no annoying videography along with really intelligent analysis which is something most channels can't or won't do. Clearly Mike has a well rounded resume which helps when discussing topics like this.
Don't know about that, but I'm happy with the growth for sure 😀
You are correct that Tissot just gave many people a watch that they wanted. They priced a watch at £400 which for most people is a weeks wage instead of a months or a years salary. Simply they looked at a very desirable design, produced a case shape and added a dial design that brought the look of a £40,000 watch into the scope of office workers. They really should have taken the PRX off the dial and put on AP ( Absolutely Plagiarised ). Pretty damn cheeky is you ask me but it does show what people really want but are happy to take a look -a -like. Me ? For this kind of money I prefer to buy something like a Seiko MOD, interesting, unique and keeps people working at home and in sheds gainfully employed. Power to the people not the big CONglomerates.
Agree on the mod - Never really had the nerve to do it myself, but I can see why people go down that route
Thanks for contributing 😃
Love your spelling of the last word
@@renehernandez6905 Thank you !
Was saving for JLC Reverso, they moved the goal by prices increase, I'm over JLC now, sold my Master Control and forget about this brand, connection lost, interest lost. Money goes elswhere, lately more into microbrands, as you well said here, microbrands have to try harder to deliever and compete at the 1 to 2k range this is where I found my joy now.
Get a rep bro
@@keine031😂
Me too re: the Reverso. It would have been by first JLC.
I feel the same way about JLC and Rolex. Prices went too crazy.
Me too, saving for a reverso and gave up, non sense price rise. Now I think I'll buy Nomos or Omega or Grand Seiko.
I really enjoy the analysis put into the making of each vid. This really is the thinking watch collector's TH-cam channel. Thank you for your efforts!
you are welcome. And thanks for sticking around 😊
I like him and his videos, because he knows his stuff and even though he has probably worn Rolexes, he genuinely still understands the allure of a 60 dollar Swatch amd doesnt look down on the people wearing them.
Thanks 😊
Excellent analysis.
I remain impressed by Swatch Group as the masters of segmentation and economies of scale.
I imagine they're making a healthy margin on the huge volume of those entry level Omegas they're shifting. Even if they're nowhere near the average selling price of Rolexes.
Plus Tissot is performing well in the toughest part of the market. And Longines had a solid year too.
Swatch have definitely better succeeded at tiering their brands compared to Richemont for example. Not everything is performing but they do broadly speaking know how to be a conglomerate 😊
You are right. The PRX is the watch people want. It seems like everyone either wants one or has one already.
My question is, though, what comes next for Tissot after the integrated bracelet craze is over.
I'm not sure anything. I don't feel they've succeeded in capitalising on the PRX succes 😀
Tissot are doing well because they aim at 'normal' people who just want to buy nice watches, not millionaire status symbols. And it works.
bingo 😊
100% true
Their watches are value for money. Simple and practical and worthy of the pocket money.
Love them. The divers need a restyling though.
@@OhioVworld Hamilton's divers even more so.
Just bought a Tissot chronograph this week. I wanted a good looking watch with a reliable, serviceable automatic swiss movement at a good price. Tissot checked all my boxes. Glad to hear they are up.
If the Ingenieur was $7500 it would be a hit. That wild colored AMG watch is a miss though
You beat me to it - would have brought in a ton of new IWC customers. What a blunder.
7.500? That would be a steal 😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch ok $8500 then, but I’m sure that’s still a tidy profit for IWC
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Would it? Baume & Mercier Riviera is around half that and it has the same movement, thinner case, and a display caseback. I don't see what you're paying for with the Ingeniuer other than the logo on the front, which to me is not even that compelling of a brand.
Thanks!
Thank you so much. That’s very kind of you 😀😀😀😀
Your extraordinary reviews deserves a better name for your channel...something simple, one word name that can be remembered....no one will tell someone else "have you seen this watch or that watch"? Give it a thought....you are in perfect time to do it....do it!
IWC - let’s take a 6 to $7000 watch and sell it for $12-$13,000. That’s absolutely ridiculous.
💯 - maybe one can walk in and get a better deal; just not something many of us want to do. A business school case on how not to bring new customers to your brand.
@Yorkiepoocharlie JLC totally turned me off with this strategy to the point where I will not buy the brand on the grey market.
Yup. The Ingeneur is a $7k watch at best.
I think the mark XX is totally worth it 😊 but agree with the rest of their watches. Ridiculous and so is JLC.
Hate that omega started this trend too.
Seriously who the hell buys an IWC for that much?? They're damn near identical to how they're always been.
Granted I haven't checked one out in about 5 years but I can't imagine the quality shot up with the price.
I really liked how Cartier watches looked in pictures. The other day I was in a store that had an extensive display of the current models. I was shocked to discover that I did not like any of them for real.
That's what I found. Unless you physically, see, maybe try on a watch, It is a gamble.
I've said this before but I think Cartier hold their spot simply because they have a perceived high value, most of the hot sellers cater to women buyers and visibility in smaller towns. You can find Cartier almost anywhere and I'm sure people buy the watches shopping for their other goods while someone would only buy an Omega or Tudor if they were specifically shopping for a watch.
Huh i just bought my wife one and thought they looked better in person, also, I put a Santos on my wrist and it looked damn good!
@msk3905 I love my Santos too 👍
Destroy the Cartier haters 😉 I'm kidding- all in fun.
I like the ladies ones because they are mostly dainty.
The mens ones were just much larger than I imagined them, and the crystal on some of them looked odd to me.@@msk3905
Another absolutely brillant, spot on analysis. Congratulations! Unless I missed it, I am really surprised though that you did not mention Longines, which in my opinion fits your thesis of "if you make watches customers want, they will buy them" perfectly. I think it is the best value for money brand currently. As for IWC: I considered buying a Pilot chrono, but in the end I bought a Brellum (a micro brand I didn't know), which sells only online. The watch is amazing, arguably better finished than the IWC, for less than half the price. Having no marketing cost helps! And yeah, Rolex continues to nail it. Used to hate it, but 2 Subs later (and one OP on the wait-list) later, I love it.
That Brellum- very nice watches.
Thanks!
Longines is part of Swatch group and their trajectory in 2023 followed the larger company.
Thanks 😊
Yeah. I cut out Longines for time. I didn't feel that there was a lot to add that wasn't covered by the general trend hitting the market and Swatch group in general. 😊
God I love you; not in an intimate way. Your spotlight on these brands truly exposes the intelligence and not so intelligent thinking of these conglomerate Swiss manufacturing board rooms! Keep up the amazing analysis; keep them honest 🙏🏼⌚️
Thanks - Very kind of you 😂😂
Tissot is doing something right. I bought three this past year. A 35 mm PRX, a 40 mm PRX Digital and a Tissot Carson Gent 40 mm quartz. They are all gorgeous watches and I wear them in rotation with my other watches.
I bought 2 40PRX’s last year also.How do you like digi PRX?
So so true Mike, great analysis. I also think it's hard for a brand to convince you to spend more to go up their product ladder, when the buyer losses more the moment you walk out the store. That's a key difference with the brands that convince you to spend more, as you either barley loose or gain in value on your purchase.
Spot on 👍
Thank you for the new video and the interesting topic. 👍JLC has increased its pricing considerably. I find the Memovox, for example, more than interesting and have put it on my wrist in a JLC boutique. But EUR 15.000,- feels a bit much for it...
That's the problem precisely. Great watches. Ridiculous prices. .😊
Thankyou for being an advocate for the average buyer.
Just the buyer, honestly. Customer first. Always 😊
We can only imagine Tissot sales uplift if they had launched the prx chrono in a wearable size. Great video and insights, as usual. Thanks
Thanks for the video. Any mention of TAG Heuer or Longiness?
Omega used to be the predominant brand in my collection. However, I have been losing more and more interest in their watches recently. Some models are way overpriced and with a very poor value retention. I don’t see watches as an investment, but I like to refresh my collection from time to time, so I only look at Omega in the preowned market. 30%-50% below retail price. Great video!
Good point mate
I fully agree, I used to have more Omegas than any other brand, but now I'm not interested. You can have 2 Omegas, and that is all that you need, a speedmaster moonwatch and a Seamaster Diver 300.
I can't tell you what to buy but I think you represent many of Omega's buyers. You see the value but you have been conditioned to view the brand as less than. Take the new white dial speedy for example there's nothing that they can do to make that watch better. At 8k there isn't one brand that sells a Chrono as iconic as it and with equal specs. Yet folks only remember the pre pandemic 5k cost of a non metas non coaxial speedy and want to pay the same old prices. I digress.
Haunting right now for new Railmaster at 2k. 44OO MSRP🤣. Find couple at Japanese A.D., but taxes and customs. Make it 28. 😢
@@stanlob1223 Only a few years ago Explorers and Op were just as cheap. Times have changed. I'm this current market everything non Rolex or Trinity can be going for a deal.
The market has spoken! Its interesting to see all these fancy brands and how many people actually buy them how that reflects into profitability. I would love to see other brands as well like Casio, Seiko, Citizen. Have a great weekend Mike!
I remember asking my Rolex AD about getting a Pepsi or Batman-they said I’m more likely to get hit by lightning ⚡️! I ended up getting the 126711chnr Rootbeer. Great video as always and have a great weekend!😎
The chocolate-noir is WAY better looking than the Pepsi, congrats 👏🏼
@@DocMulholland thanks-it’s the most gold watch I have and was cheaper at retail than a 10 year old Batman at the time.
Call it chocolate or truffle but at the end of the day it's still brown, and brown just doesn't pop like the other colors.
AS a two-tone lover I can only say good call. And happy to hear you weren't struck by lightning 😂
Put my name on the list for a DJ41 and a Root Beer.
Good point regarding Tissot and what the industry should learn about. People buy what people like, at the end of the day.
Apart some few exceptions watches as products are a luxury that the average consumer doesn't need, to convince people to buy them you need to give them something truly interesting and convince them to give you (watch maker) the few money they have spared.
I really like what Tissot is doing and they have fun and interesting watches which for most buyers are the gateway for true swiss watches.
The new PR516 (mechanic, quartzes are a bit a meh) is awesome, I see it appealing people interested in the history of the brand but also (most important) first/second time buyers of a swiss watch.
And so love your channel. It's just remind me I was a swiss watch lover and how i leave this hobby year after year.
Thanks 😊
Brilliant video is always!! Completely agree with your points. I wonder what JLC could then do better going forward.. I love the Reverso but as you very well have said is quite niche.. are they missing a “better” every day watch or a diver perhaps? Those two categories seem to be the more popular ones.. I think the Polaris it is a good watch, but I don’t like it enough to buy one.. I wonder if a lot of people feel the same way. Curious what your thoughts are.. thanks for posting such thoughtful and excellent videos. Cheers!!
Was looking forward to this video since the MS report came out. Always appreciate your market analyses, Mike, and this one was insightful and thought-provoking as usual. Cheers!
Glad you liked it . It took me a little longer to put it together but glad you felt it was worth a watch 😊😊
Well done Tissot. Darn good watches at a fair price, they deserve to succeed. What about Longines, Rado and Oris in the tier above?
Longines and Rado are both parts of the Swatch group. Oris, although a very cool company, has sales that round to 0% of the total Swiss luxury watch market. That is not an insult or hyperbole, it is literally what the Morgan Stanley report says.
@@frankhujsa821 I know Longines and Rado are part of Swatch, I wanted to know how they are performing as individual brands. We have the statistics for Tissot and Omega so this information must be available for other members of the group. I would expect Oris to be tiny unfortunately and Rado (and Certina) both to be well down the rankings, but Longines is traditionally a big hitter and should be well up in the top ten above Tissot.
My wife bought me a JLC Reverso for my 50th birthday a few months ago at the current retail price. If I only could have turned 50 a couple of years ago she would have saved a significant amount. However, I’ll take the years of life over the cost savings. ❤
JLC is uniformly loved by watch reviewers, and as you note they're clearly wasting this free franchise asset to promote their products better. Regarding Omega v. Rolex comparison, if you can't buy a "Speedy" in the showroom 6:40 you buy one pre-owned for less than retail, which you can't do with Rolex.
Best watch channel. Please keep up this style of videos, I'm sick of the generic watch review videos!!
Glad you like my content 😊
I will do some watch reviews though - but will try my best to still not be like the rest even when I do 😊
Excelllent analysis. Curious what kind of fresh direction you think might work for Omega. Should they be following Rolex’s strategy, perhaps Cartier’s strategy, or is there something else unique they can leverage to achieve new heights of growth?
That blue JLC perpetual calendar that keeps showing up in this video would be a dream come true for me. I wish I could afford it. Anyway thanks for your thoughts.
You've honed a perfect niche- discuss branding and business. Always an unvarnished, insightful discussion.
Thanks - Glad to hear that you think I provide something a little different 😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I think that some collaborative spots with Adrian Barker or Andrew Morgan would be well received. They both write well and neither seems to be corrupted. Your business/branding perspective is not direct competition- so would only make for a richer discussion.
During the bubble of 2022-2023 there seemed to be no limit to how high prices could go; the higher the better. Now the bubble has burst, the economy is soft and the speculators have gone away, and many brands are left holding watches which are overpriced for this new market.
Agreed 💯 most brands had head in clouds thinking this would go on forever and raising by crazy % now like you say high prices on current models and not enough customers so what do they do now .....
6:40 I don’t get your point,with Omega you can can get a regular speedy, so why would you upgrade? It’s like if apple limited the production of iPhone so people could only find the 1TB at the store, sure a lot more people would “upgrade” because they have no choice and they want an iPhone, but how many customers would they lose? And is this what you really want?
I agree it's not as simple as offering upgrades. Rolex forces people to buy two toned and solid gold dj to get on lists for Op and submariner. So they are moving double the units using unfair practices. Imo the only way Omega can pass Cartier is if they make models that dominate the women's watch segment and start creating more wait-list for the popular models. Omega would have to sell 4x as many watches to compete with Rolex because the average cost is so low.
I’m curious about Christopher Ward. I didn’t like their earlier designs, but the keep getting better and the more I learn about the brand, the more I like what I hear.
The Twelve will be my next watch.
You wont be disappointed. I have a twelve (titanium with blue dial) and it is magnificent
Interesting takes… I would agree that JLC & Breitling might be perfect examples of when you hit the glass ceiling with extortionate pricing. TBC (of course).
Within the volume brands it’s not only IWC that is badly run, but also Longines and TAG Heuer (LVMH as a whole, actually). Management shake-up badly needed, IMHO.
Excellent commentary. Thank you. You say, in regard to Tissot, "because they produce watches people want." Exactly. IMHO, when a micro brand launches a watch that is a success, say Baltic's line up, some of the Nivada Grenchen's (Antarctic sold out!), Vertex, that's because a major player, like Omega or Longines, has failed to "produce watches people want." I'm a lucky man and I'd be happy to pay a premium for a luxury brand. Yet they are not on offer. I love classic designs with historical provenance. Omega has this in spades if they would only re-issue modern interpretations of some of their best sellers. I simply don't care for open hands or shark teeth indices. Breitling, on the other hand, is doing well by offering classically beautiful designs that people are willing to pay a premium for. All the best to you. With luck, folks in C-Suites throughout the industry are paying attention to your videos.
Thanks for the kind words - and they know where to find me. They can pay me in Daytonas, Historiques and Reversos 😂😂
The only YT channel on watches made in impeccable afrikaans accent and what's most important, not taking part of the watch industry, but serving the truth.
Great content, as usual. Thank you.
Regarding Vacheron Constantin, I’ve felt for a long time that their reputation as ‘not quite a Patek’ is in some ways unjustified.
When working on vintage to modern watches by both, the Vacherons almost always surpass Pateks in terms of finishing and build quality. That is no mean feat!
A lot of what I’m talking about is hidden until you’ve started disassembling the watch, though.
I guess this just shows that where these watches are concerned, the finishing and details only a watchmaker will notice play second fiddle to other factors when determining a brand’s place in the market.
In terms of movement quality per dollar spent, Vacheron, especially vintage Vacheron are incredible value for money in my opinion.
SUPER Interesting, thanks again for a lot of sound thinking! I think your videos should be obligatory morning viewing for all Swiss watches marketing people. For most it would thoroughly spoil their day I guess😇
Glad you like them! 😊
As the Collective Horology guys said, JLC is like Luke warm butter on weak toast. A brand that’s waning, trading on past glory.
Outstanding, well thought out, compelling exclamation.
Thanks 😊
This was a very intelligent synopsis of the Swiss watch industry. Well done!
Thank you kindly 😊
Just found this channel. Certainly agree with you regarding omega. The issue isn’t even just the precious metal but the “limited edition”.
For example if you want a dateless Seamaster 300m it’s MORE expensive than the date version because of the James Bond relations. It’s same price as a Sub (ish) and that’s where a lot of people would walk, then get fed up at waiting for a Rolex and just go for another brand.
Interesting analysis and perfect to view while drinking my morning coffee today.
Enjoy! 😊🍵
Excellent take as usual! It is ashamed that we don't have similar reports for Germans, British and Japanese watch brands. I can't help help but noticed that you have a 00 in the background. Is it a PG?
Yes - Perfect Grade. I have quite a few that I build together with my son 😃
Incredibly insightful! Really such a well researched critique
thank you .😊
I'm not even into all the market stuff it doesnt concern me, but its still very interesting to listen to
Great stuff as always
Just a small note from the very beginning as to non-Swiss brands, particularly the Japanese. You mentioned Seiko and Casio, but forgot about Citizen, a large conglomerate, that owns Swiss brands and other Swiss watch-related companies.
Thanks.
Good point on Citizen. So many brands though - can't mention them all 😊😊
Great video as ever. I don’t believe that brands like IWC, JLC ever forget about creating a compelling product; it’s always at the forefront of everyone’s mind. But you do need a bit of luck / magic to create something that resonates with the public and the zeitgeist. Like catching lightning in a bottle, it’s not easy.
True - Sometimes you have to take chances and you might just not be the one that hits the zeitgeist... 😊😊
good analysis... for me, personally, I am having more fun looking at some less expensive but interesting micro-brands... I had that idea that I would jump from Casio->Orient->Seiko->Sinn->Tudor were I am now and then progress to something more luxury... but f it... I got to eat...
Great point! 😊
Great analysis, great video! Keep ‘em coming!
Great review as always. Did I miss a part in the video ? What about Longines ?
Thanks - no. I left out Longines on purpose simply out of time constraints. Something had to go 😊
We are waiting for a brand analysis for Longines...
Yes, looking forward to your Longines analysis. Great video as always!
On it's way - There's just so much on the list 😊😊
I believe longines is an excellent watch brand under swatch group. affordable and very nice looking watch
Very interesting, thank you. Excellent points. Would love your thoughts on German, Japanese and Dutch (ie Gronefeld) watches compared to the Swiss industry
German brands like Lange, GO, Nomo etc and Japanese brand Grand Seiko have their products good in quality and innovation.
another great video. enjoy your marketing and economic take on the current state of the luxury watch market.
Thank you 😊
Mr. Mike I think you hit the nail on the head about premiumization with Rolex. I bought my first Tudor a couple of months ago (Ranger). Now I’m saving up for a Pelagos then eventually a Rolex. That would be my entire collection of only 3 watches. But Rolex will be the end goal.
Frankly speaking, i have rolex, omega, tudor in my collection. Just recently I bought USD 850 Tissot Heritage 1938 salmon dial. My excitement is the same with tissot when walking out of AD! Tissot did a great job lately.
Outstanding insights and wonderfully delivered. Loved it
Much appreciated! 😊
I think the point about upgrade paths is facsinating. I also wonder if two tone is what people associate with a quintessential
Rolex. Growing up, Rolex in my mind's eye was always a two toned datejust. I would consider a two toned Rolex before any other brands. I opted for a 114060 from my AD a few years back though.
I believe there is something to what you say. I have two two-tone rolexes, and I love them dearly. But, would I ever be inclined to spend money on a two-tone model from Omega, or Breitling, or IWC, etc?? I highly doubt that I would
Thanks for the thoughts.
I was curious your thoughts were missing for Hamilton and Oris. Was there a lack of data for them?
Thanks 😊
No - Just a prioritisation of who to talk about being mindful of time. 😊
Superb analysis! Thank you for your hard work.
Glad you enjoyed it! 😊
I have too agree, I bought a Tudor Pelagos LHD love it, then a Blvgari octo, 2 moon swatches then finally got offered a Rolex datejust 41 Wimbledon,
I think a lot of the watch companies believed there own hype, omega, panarai, iwc, etc, people buy them from their AD to get up the list for a Rolex
I refuse to spend thousands on a brand that spends millions on advertising at show jumping, golf , formula one, etc. I don’t want my money going there. And I’m anti-big corporations. I do have respect for Omega however. So. Great video. It’s education for me - as I wish I was able to go to the British Watchmakers event….
Omega spends a TON on all kinds of event-based marketing
@@omar10213245 you’re right now that I think of it.
You really nailed it here. 💯.
I strongly support your view. I want my money to go for the design and manufacturing of the watch and not for marketing or celebrity endorsement. Thar is why I am not interested in Rolex or Omega. Let alone the higher end brands.
But you do know that some random person riding a horse while wearing a watch makes it cooler right? 😂
Great video, you can use for many other product and bisness out there
exceptionally great how you explained about omega
I’m curious (in general) what your thoughts are of Longines.
good watches. Excellent value for the most part 😀
Interesting comment about upgrade paths between rolex and omega but in my view it is far more a sub culture phenomena and differentiation factor between these two clienteles where one is more lets say extroverted than the other.
Interesting view for vast majority of the population.
The ultimate market segment . . . the ultra wealthy do *quiet fashion* . . .
Where a person has billions - there is no need to impress others - no fashion labels etc. This market segment is tiny
It's really unfortunate that we don't have the data for the non-Suiss brands
I learn so much from your videos. Thanks for sharing what you know.
Thanks for watching 😃😃
Tudor had several years when new models went to a premium on the secondary market. In the end buyers didn't want yet another Black Bay so demand, and hype secondary prices, fell. They need another winner that isn't BB based. The PRX must have a lot to do with Tissot's success. I bought the recently released 1938 Heritage COSC model. That has been under the radar like many Tissot releases. I got a significant discount. I'm sure they want to make what people want but can they come up with another PRX or get anywhere close?
Great video! I was looking forward to your take on the latest Morgan Stanley report. My thoughts:
1) Breitling has been on the rise since 2017 (when Georges Kern took over), moving from 19 to 9. Their product offerings have definitely improved. Will they be next to break the $1 billion sales threshold?
2) The Swatch Group accounted for nearly 75% of units sold, largely due to Swatch, Tissot, Longines, and Omega. However, their higher end brands (Blancpain, Breguet and Glashutte Original) continue to languish. They don’t seem to be getting much love. I’m a big fan of GO, but most folks have never heard of them.
3) I agree with your thoughts on the voluminous Omega catalog. Why so many models?
4) I wonder how accurate the sales estimates are. Do brands laugh when they read the report?
Sometimes I wish Swatch could/would sell Breguet to a conglomerate that would market them in a way, which would put them on the pedestal they deserve to be on. Breguet's offerings are every bit the quality you see from the big boys (i.e. Patek, AP, etc)
Great video, it would be interesting to see geographical segmentation on results. The relative economic buoyancy / brand penetration of Asia may be an interesting data point in why you are seeing some apparently non justifiable price increases
Thanks - And agree. There's a lot of geographical nuance.
If you're interested (or just a nerd like me) - there's a freely available report from Deloitte on the watch industry. Just google it on their site. It has a lot of market insights including differences in buyer behaviour from region to region.
cheers
😊😊
This is a really really interesting video.
Not only watchwise but marketing wise.
Excellent analysis. The difference in peoples willingness to upgrade with Rolex versus omega is interesting. For me, omega is synonymous with its tool watch offerings. I just really don’t have an interest in a precious metal version of a dive watch, so it’s steel/titanium or nothing for me. Rolex has more non-tool offerings that are compelling in a precious metal format. So I do wonder if it’s these that people are buying when the stainless steel submariner is unavailable or are they in fact buying the gold submariners? I suppose I should also clarify that for some reason in my head, the Speedmaster is a tool watch but the Daytona isn’t, but I am not sure that’s a symmetrical judgement.
The problem is twofold: 1) monetary value - because of the high cost, people confuse it with prestige and resale value and not what the watch was made for e.g. Tool watch - measure speed and so on and 2) Not understanding the watch - what makes a daytona different to a speedie.
When I look at watches, I do the following 1) why do I want the watch:dress, sport or tool 2) is aesthetically pleasing 3) what's the movement like.. Now compare watches that fit all 3 and the make a choice. If you are worried about value buy one the holds value but you won't be measuring speed, instead it will be an occasional wear to show off. Or, buy the watch on secondary market below retail and use the watch as its been meant to be used and forget the price: it's for the long haul dummy!
Thanks for sharing - Very relevant perspective 😊
Numbers aside, it's interesting to see the dynamics between luxury watch brands like Tissot and Tudor.
Tissot is not luxury though and Tudor isn’t either.
Very good analytic skill. Love your content ❤
Zut alor Mike, another smasher! Looking forward to your new Omega vid and I will observe Cartiers progress. I'm looking at a preowned quartz steel Bacculate for now from 2012 at $7,500 Canadian any comments on this watch? Other wise I will get a two tone Datejust or a Santos in Dec of this year.
Thank you for your time.
Regards,
Chris
Awesome 00 Raiser man! Would love to see it on a stand with some dynamic posing
A man of true culture 👍👍👍
I have quite a few in different sizes and grades - a hobby shared by my son and I 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch You sound like a fantastic dad! How about you combine the hobbies by customising a seiko diver with the colours of white/blue/red with a touch of yellow?
What about Longines, It has the most critical drop but you didn't mention it
I don’t know for sure, but being part of the swatch group maybe it’s mixed with the Swatch report?
Had to drop a couple of companies - too many to choose from, so took the ones I was most interested in 😊
Amazing video ! Anything on longines ?
I know for me, buying a Rolex of any description is a “Field of Dreams!”😂 However, personally I’d take an Omega every day over a Rolex, & yes the new white dial Speedy has piqued my interest!😍👌🏼
I was told their new powermatic 80 is designed to be replaced and not serviced, and they put it in most of their watches, any truth to this? Troubling if true
The Powermatic movement inside is available in different versions / grade. The cheapest versions have "synthetic" parts. I spoke to a watchmaker a while ago and his view was that it was technically repairable. It's not like a Swatch Sistem 51 that cannot be taken apart, but the likelihood is that despite it being repairable it's likely cheaper to just chuck the movement and throw in a new one. 😃
Excellent analysis - as always.
Nobody is buying anymore. I’m seeing tons off new stock sitting in stores, including Rolex sport watches
Where?
Personally I'm not seeing a ton, but my AD has many models on display and is very open that anything in two-tone or from the classic line is something you can get almost immediately 😊
I don't know anything about watches, but I've been observing and reading about watches, the industry, brands, marketing and I've come to one conclusion: it's all a scam! Especially the so-called “luxury” brands are not worth the money they cost. And that goes for all kinds of things, not just watches. For me, I don't see much difference between a good Tissot watch and a Rolex or Cartier. I'm talking about differences in quality because each brand has its iconic designs. But for me, all of these watches will need maintenance someday and they will all last a lifetime if taken care of properly. And in the end it's all a question of quality and perception of prestige, which marketing is largely to blame for, as "luxury" spends millions to instill in people's heads that it is luxury and that is why it is different from everything else. For me Tissot is luxury because have the same quality as large "luxury brands" and the models are perfect in design. Am I right or wrong? I love the "Le Locle" Tissot series and I think is the perfect balance between excellent design and quality for my entire life. Someone enlighten me because I need a watch, I don´t have one!
There is an argument that for the "extra" you get in quality on a Rolex for example, you're proportionally paying way more for the marketing than the actual extra quality.. 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch yes, it´s what I think. I don´t like Rolex designs. I´m more Cartier and Longines type of design but I love the Tissot Le Locle. He has the same vibe... Thanks for the feedback!🙂
People are willing to buy premium Rolex models at retail a) because they won’t loose money down the road; b) to build relationship with an AD to be able to buy a desirable steel sports model, e.g. a Daytona.
Serious question: does ‘build the relationship’ really work at this pt? Unless you buy some ladies watch they can’t move, what have you done? The relationships were created long before the money printing, crypto money and social media entered the watch game. They’ll still sell every vanilla OP, Explorer they receive. And good luck ever getting a Daytona if you’re just starting now (unless you live in some area w/o a lot of HNWIs).
Not sure if building the relationship with AD works everywhere, but they definitely want you to believe it does. Reminds of Hermes where clients would buy just about anything for a slim change to get a Birkin bag.
@@WestCoastAce27 Even in the backwater area the AD will still most likely sell that steel Daytona to a special relationship customer- ie a "grey dealer" (meaning himself or a close family member). They don't just leave that kind of extra free money on the table for someone else. Why would they?
The upgrade models are only ones for sale in the AD
Scary to think that Breitling is owned by Venture Capital whose only goal is to increase short term profits at any cost: expect lower quality and higher prices in the future.
Exactly. Steer clear of new breitlings for the foreseeable future
Agree. Its unfortunate.
thats 90% of humanityu lol ... what ?
I would definitely agree with Tudor. It’s enough to see secondary market, you can get new watches for 20 to 30% off MRSP, that for me is an indication that something is not done well, pricing in my opinion.
If you build it, they will come. Absolutely right. The Black Bay was a big hit and the Tudor brand benefited. Now, it feels like the Black Bay's moment is over and Tudor's prominence will wane with it.
I see a long term issue for the Swatch Group with the Powermatic 80 movement. I believe the inability to locally adjust or repair the movement at a reasonable price will leave a bad taste with buyers within a few years.
Easier to replace than repair is my guess 😃