It would be cool if there was a gimmick category of “Turtwig starter glitchless” where the player has to pick Turtwig and has to keep Turtwig in their party at all times
There is, go to the category extensions for pokemon platinum on the leaderboard, and go to "alt main pokes," and there are a couple runs for torterra as the main pokemon.
@@plogplog207 Do you mean the 40BP Gust? Or 55BP Air Cutter? 40BP Powder Snow? All of these moves are in Gen IV BTW. I don't know why Piplup can't learn these. It's stupid. This kind of thing is why Fire Types suck early in Gen V. They only get the 30BP Incinerate instead of 40BP Ember early on. Even the Victini that you can get super early in BW gets it's butt kicked early on because of Incinerate. 50BP Flame Charge doesn't help much either because by that point you need 60BP moves. It gets a little better with 75BP Flame Shot, but by that point you want to be using 80 to 100 BP moves.
Crazy how much changes overtime, sure Chimchar starts off better in terms of speedrun strats, but doesn't finish off as strong. Piplup on the other hand certainly had the tougher early game (which thankfully is made easier through RNG manip) and thankfully has a strong finish, as an Empoleon especially with the choice specs which makes it insane with it's higher special attack.
I think the debate should be less about who's the fastest and instead focus more on who's the most consistent. If Chimchar is able to finish more runs, which in turn leads to a more healthy competition and helps improve the speedrun meta for the game, then I'm Team Monkey all the way.
Super interesting and cool video, thank you for the insight into it!! Also, shout out to the gravity rush music. What a blast from the past. Still wish those games had had a better reception, and more love.
As someone whose always loved chimchar since I got it as my first ever pokemon back in platinum I love to see how it's on top, but honestly I think eventually that record is gonna fall to empoleon's surf in double battles
I cannot even begin to express to you why I thought this video, which was a fantastic and well thought out analysis of Platinum speedrunning with a relatively serious tone, would end with you joking about Torterra being the best starter and leaving the question unanswered. But I was ready for it down to the cellular level.
Reminds me of the pokemon anime where chimchar steals food from piplup and they both fight and escape from Rowans lab while turtwig just continues eating
This is an interesting discussion. In my opinion, Chimchar is overall better due to the early game. The early game's the hardest part of most Pokemon games because the Pokemon and trainers are at a relatively similar power level to you compared to the late game where you're at a much higher level and have EVs. So I'd say having a good early game and late game is overall better than having a dicey early game and an excellent late game. It'd be interesting to see what it would be like if Infernape learned Heat Wave though
In a speedrun you're generally leveled far below your opponents, after all Empoleon finishes on level 67, a lower level than Cynthia's Garchomp. Kanto speedruns are even harder, you finish on level 53, 10 or even 12 levels beyond the rival's starter. As for what matters more, generally in the lategame opponents have huge teams while early on you're only facing trainers with one or two mons, so for a speedrun a better lategame often saves more time. However an unreliable part of a speedrun will always be annoying, but if the riskier route is faster, then it's the better one.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 Unless it's so risky that it's just not feasible. I'm certain someone will come along with a perfect Piplup time one of these days due to the nature of things, but unless you're pushing WRs, Chimchar run is better due to consistency. And that's assuming it can't also shave off time like the Piplup route can.
Can you do a video where you talk about the speed run Pokémon for each game. Some are unexpected; I’ve seen Nidoking for Red and Stoutland for Black and White. I want to know if there are any other unexpected ones
I feel like if you can spend a minute or two getting the lucky egg, you can also spend a minute or two getting the earthquake tm for infernape, that can help with a lot of the double battles.
I find it interesting that you use your starter throughout the entire game. Would have thought that maybe another mon you can catch at the start would be better.
Meanwhile as a Turtwig fan, it's sad to see how it gets screwed over so badly, Intimidate from Gyarados and the many Staravia, Bronzors and Bronzongs always defaulting to Levitate instead of Heatproof, no access to Rock Slide/Stone Edge until way later on to deal with flying mons, etc., even if it sweeps through the league and most gyms (besides Crusher Wake) without the tiniest of troubles. Really wish it was viable for speedruns, but even when it's not, it's still the starter I'll always pick! PS: It's Roark, you butchered the poor kid's name so many times lol
I find it very interesting that the Infernape route goes for a Physical Moveset. Sure maximizing that early Mach Punch damage might be great, but Infernape still has an equally good Special Atk stat and has access to a lot of great special moves as well, including a 95 base power Flamethrower and a 100BP Heat Wave that also hits both opponents in Doubles. It even gets Vaccum Wave in Platinum. Maybe a Special Set with Timid or Modest nature could be enough to make use of that Choice Specs in the late game and be able to avoid the time loss from the extra text from Flare Blitz and Close Combat. It would also increase the damage of Grass Knot
my belief is that most of Infernape's counters you see in platinum are weaker physically or weak to fighting moves, with the few exceptions (heavy ground types) being extra squishy to grass knot, which as you say could still work in a physical attacking infernape due to his mostly equal attack/spa stats. Additionally Infernape can learn earthquake through TM
None of these moves are viable for the speedrun: Flamethrower TM - Massive detour to Fuego ironworks to get Heat Wave - only available from a move tutor post game Vaccum Wave - Big timeloss collecting shards and going to move tutor (for a very low base power move)
Would be interesting to see if the Japanese versions of these games pathing as the jpn pokemon platinum wr is faster than the eng wr so differences in language could be interesting to see and compare to eng runs of the same game
🐒 or🐧?
🐢, but it is unfortunately too slow😅
🐒
🐧
🐧
🐒
It would be cool if there was a gimmick category of “Turtwig starter glitchless” where the player has to pick Turtwig and has to keep Turtwig in their party at all times
There is, go to the category extensions for pokemon platinum on the leaderboard, and go to "alt main pokes," and there are a couple runs for torterra as the main pokemon.
@@legoerofeggos nice, thanks for informing me
Is turtwig so unviable that it is a gimmick to use ?
@@dlrsnate5100literally adds another turn to most battles because his speed is low. The opposing Pokémon will usually outspeed
Will you have to keep Turtwig or can you use Torterra?
Can't wait for the suprise takeover of Torterra
My man cant even flee from wild encounters by itself
@@C4lmaria buy repels and give him choice scarf. I call it
@@alexbrown8900 that takes time
@@C4lmaria i was kidding anyways
@@C4lmaria My man? lmao what?
Bubble has *20* base power, it's honestly tragic for it. If Piplup learnt Water Gun instead there'd be no contest.
or a special pluck alternative maybe even icy wind
@@plogplog207 Do you mean the 40BP Gust? Or 55BP Air Cutter? 40BP Powder Snow? All of these moves are in Gen IV BTW. I don't know why Piplup can't learn these. It's stupid.
This kind of thing is why Fire Types suck early in Gen V. They only get the 30BP Incinerate instead of 40BP Ember early on. Even the Victini that you can get super early in BW gets it's butt kicked early on because of Incinerate. 50BP Flame Charge doesn't help much either because by that point you need 60BP moves. It gets a little better with 75BP Flame Shot, but by that point you want to be using 80 to 100 BP moves.
If only it could be my boi!!!!!! but I understand he is very slow
My favourite starter of all time is Turtwig. Really cute but unfortunately slow😅🌱🐢
Just for Turtwig 😢✊️
Grass type gang
Rip turtwig
I pick turtwig cause I put the green first😤
0:54 love how "pachirisu" is one of the boss battles
well he is the dragon slayer for a reason
He won a championship after all
Trust in monkey, monkey cares for your mental well being.
Penguin wants you to experience endless anxiety.
True
Turtwig is the king of speedrunning in my heart. even if he's not in the race for it.
Piplup has lost the battle, but the war is far from over. Piplup will dominate once more!
That's really cool Pulse, but did you know that you can beat Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl in under 15 minutes???
No way that's crazy. 😱
Wait, did I hear Werster sticking with his water type starter against the new challenger? I can't believe he would ever do such a thing.
Crazy how much changes overtime, sure Chimchar starts off better in terms of speedrun strats, but doesn't finish off as strong. Piplup on the other hand certainly had the tougher early game (which thankfully is made easier through RNG manip) and thankfully has a strong finish, as an Empoleon especially with the choice specs which makes it insane with it's higher special attack.
Thanks for summarizing the video I guess😅
Really interesting videos you are making. Thanks for the insight of pokémon speedrunning.
Thumnail should have had Turtwig patting Piplup on the back like "It'll be ok."
Well now someone needs to get the world record with Turtwig
It’s gonna be 3:40:XX
''B-but my Monkeh is stronk you just need to-''
*''116 Surfs''*
Really liked how you broke down the differences in the routes and why diff parts would take them longer or shorter, very interesting as always!
I think the debate should be less about who's the fastest and instead focus more on who's the most consistent. If Chimchar is able to finish more runs, which in turn leads to a more healthy competition and helps improve the speedrun meta for the game, then I'm Team Monkey all the way.
Super interesting and cool video, thank you for the insight into it!!
Also, shout out to the gravity rush music. What a blast from the past. Still wish those games had had a better reception, and more love.
Gravity Rush has a very special place in my heart. I'm at least glad it was ported from Vita to consoles! 🙏
8:53 oscar-worthy evil laugh
As someone whose always loved chimchar since I got it as my first ever pokemon back in platinum I love to see how it's on top, but honestly I think eventually that record is gonna fall to empoleon's surf in double battles
I cannot even begin to express to you why I thought this video, which was a fantastic and well thought out analysis of Platinum speedrunning with a relatively serious tone, would end with you joking about Torterra being the best starter and leaving the question unanswered. But I was ready for it down to the cellular level.
Man...I should have done this LOL
8:50. Why, why were you so evil haha!
Reminds me of the pokemon anime where chimchar steals food from piplup and they both fight and escape from Rowans lab while turtwig just continues eating
Don’t worry ma grass turtle summer child… I like you even if you’re slow.
I have always wondered what moves become viable if you keep move animations enabled(like a memerun theorycrafting)
I FEEL like physicals are going to dominate as the specials are way flashier and slower. haven't tested this.
Huh...heavy sunshine routes would be cool actually.
Never gave that a thought before
Oh please, everyone knows the best starter is unquestionably Turtwig
The penguin emperor commands: execute level 66.
This is an interesting discussion. In my opinion, Chimchar is overall better due to the early game. The early game's the hardest part of most Pokemon games because the Pokemon and trainers are at a relatively similar power level to you compared to the late game where you're at a much higher level and have EVs. So I'd say having a good early game and late game is overall better than having a dicey early game and an excellent late game. It'd be interesting to see what it would be like if Infernape learned Heat Wave though
In a speedrun you're generally leveled far below your opponents, after all Empoleon finishes on level 67, a lower level than Cynthia's Garchomp. Kanto speedruns are even harder, you finish on level 53, 10 or even 12 levels beyond the rival's starter. As for what matters more, generally in the lategame opponents have huge teams while early on you're only facing trainers with one or two mons, so for a speedrun a better lategame often saves more time. However an unreliable part of a speedrun will always be annoying, but if the riskier route is faster, then it's the better one.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 Unless it's so risky that it's just not feasible. I'm certain someone will come along with a perfect Piplup time one of these days due to the nature of things, but unless you're pushing WRs, Chimchar run is better due to consistency. And that's assuming it can't also shave off time like the Piplup route can.
Would've been funny to add a little part for turtwig, saying something like "Oh we don't even mention Turtwig, with its awful world record of x:xx:xx"
Poor Turtwig not even in the running though I go with consistency over potentially better rates but luck dependent
For me it just seemed like Infernape with low sweep was all you needed to One shot anyone except ofc those who were immune to it.
Someone should submit a Piplup vs Chimchar race to GDQ
I like the Gravity Rush music in the background.
Good vid, this one alone deserves a sub
Truly a rough day for fellow Turtwig lovers
What about Torterra? c;
Can you do a video where you talk about the speed run Pokémon for each game. Some are unexpected; I’ve seen Nidoking for Red and Stoutland for Black and White. I want to know if there are any other unexpected ones
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
*GUYS! IT’S TCNICK3!*
Its kinda poetic that piplup is harder cuz in the dex it says that piplup is hard to train.
In the sex 👀
it would have been very funny if it would have been said all these calculations and the best mon to speed run is turtwig XD
So basically high floor vs high ceiling
Bro you have an _exceptional_ evil laugh
i love that chimp
6:56 Roarick msm?! 💀
Nice video, editing
Empoleon: Haha! I can learn surf, and you can’t! That’s an L for you!
Infernape: Bibarel, surf.
Bibarel: Ok.
Empoleon: AAAAAAAAAAA-
I feel like if you can spend a minute or two getting the lucky egg, you can also spend a minute or two getting the earthquake tm for infernape, that can help with a lot of the double battles.
this war can easily be solved with a TAS
The irony of the precise speedrun being best done on the rng monkeh going ape xD
Chimchar chimchar chimchar chimchar
It's really funny to me that Chimchar finishes more runs but Piplup's runs are better.
as soon as you evolve chimchar it learns mach punch and other moves that set you up for all your weaknesses
Reject penguin return to monkey
Be interesting to see how this changes with Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl.
ITS SO CRAZY THAT THE TIMES FOR BOTH MONS ARE 44 SECONDS APART
Finally sinnoh speedruns😎🥰😍💪👌
With no context I kinda just figured Chimchar would be better
Or they could just use Turtwig and accept that they can't have nice things
My fellow Turtwig fans... If we put our heads together, we can overtake them.
I find it interesting that you use your starter throughout the entire game. Would have thought that maybe another mon you can catch at the start would be better.
Meanwhile as a Turtwig fan, it's sad to see how it gets screwed over so badly, Intimidate from Gyarados and the many Staravia, Bronzors and Bronzongs always defaulting to Levitate instead of Heatproof, no access to Rock Slide/Stone Edge until way later on to deal with flying mons, etc., even if it sweeps through the league and most gyms (besides Crusher Wake) without the tiniest of troubles. Really wish it was viable for speedruns, but even when it's not, it's still the starter I'll always pick!
PS: It's Roark, you butchered the poor kid's name so many times lol
13:39 they were right, wr today is a piplup run with 3:35:xx XD
This need to be settled at a gdq
NO: it would better settled on ESA
we might need to product TAS run of both starter to completed this answer
In a TAS Piplup wins by far, but it's so incredibly unlikely that it pretty much won't be reproduced even remotely ever.
I find it very interesting that the Infernape route goes for a Physical Moveset. Sure maximizing that early Mach Punch damage might be great, but Infernape still has an equally good Special Atk stat and has access to a lot of great special moves as well, including a 95 base power Flamethrower and a 100BP Heat Wave that also hits both opponents in Doubles. It even gets Vaccum Wave in Platinum.
Maybe a Special Set with Timid or Modest nature could be enough to make use of that Choice Specs in the late game and be able to avoid the time loss from the extra text from Flare Blitz and Close Combat. It would also increase the damage of Grass Knot
It uses Grass Knot and Flamethrower quite a bit! The late game hardly needs special moves though.
my belief is that most of Infernape's counters you see in platinum are weaker physically or weak to fighting moves, with the few exceptions (heavy ground types) being extra squishy to grass knot, which as you say could still work in a physical attacking infernape due to his mostly equal attack/spa stats. Additionally Infernape can learn earthquake through TM
None of these moves are viable for the speedrun:
Flamethrower TM - Massive detour to Fuego ironworks to get
Heat Wave - only available from a move tutor post game
Vaccum Wave - Big timeloss collecting shards and going to move tutor (for a very low base power move)
I used to do casual Diamond speedruns with Chimchar, but yeah Hidden Power let me challenge the first gym before evolving.
Poor TCNick3 Man...
who would be faster pipul with stronger early move or infernape with move than hits both pokemon?
Leaning a bit towards Chimchar!
This is the best video yet
I wonder if by manipulating and giving a quick claw to torterra if he could be viable, i mean it evolves before of both piplup and chimchar
In battle rng is hard to manipulate (and the 7th gym seems rough)
Quick Claw also makes the run slower, as it at least spawns a text box in gen4 onwards
*sad turtwig noises*
Heart eyes 😍 for the Mass effect instrumental you have my heart AND my attention
Chimchar was insane, bug types couldnt handle the ember, monferno’s mach punch screwed up rock types hard, infernape was quick and had enough dmg
I believe in the TCNation supremacy
Platinum Race: Piplup vs Chimchar at GDQ coming up?
I mean if Piplup's main issue is that almost any run fails before it picks up then a live event may not be the best place for it.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 You’ve never seen a run with a backup cart?
Meanwhile Turtwig speedrun is over 4 hours lol
So it seems like the way to make a determination is to do two separate tas
Who is the best starter? Obviously turtwig 😂
Monkey = fun Penguin = PLS RNGESUS
Nah. I'm running Monkey bro.
I miss gen 5 sprites so bad 😭😭😭😭😭❤️❤️❤️ wish they would make a comeback....
Team Torterra!
PIPLUP YEAHH
I love Empoleon
Would be interesting to see if the Japanese versions of these games pathing as the jpn pokemon platinum wr is faster than the eng wr so differences in language could be interesting to see and compare to eng runs of the same game
I figured Chimchar would make up a lot of time on the ice type gym leader (I can't remember her name)
Candice
@@sebastianescalante5618 Candice dick fit in yo mouf haha gottem
@@sebastianescalante5618Candice nuts fit in your mouth
I like the turtle.
PLAPP for life
Extremely common Piplup W
I find funny how Grass starter it's the worst starter in every single speedrun
so we aint gonna talk abt odds of lucky egg lmao
I wonder how much the difference in record comes down to number of runs finished since early game is so miserable for the penguin
bro is this LS? from league?
Hmmm monke
Piplup all the way. I have always LOVED Piplup, had a cute card of it before I lost it, and I always think of it, so adorable.
My favorite starter in sinnoh is chimchar but what about torterra he deserves love ngl
POV; Me a turtwig enjoyer in pokemon platinum because I like smell of plants
Reject penguin
Embrace monke
Penguin won it all
Werster the goat put respect on my boi 💯