How Speedrunners Broke Pokemon Colosseum
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ค. 2023
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I need more people to play Pokemon Colosseum. It's soooo good! 😭
Have you seen the dogs in love series, it’s a great series to watch if your hungry for more Colosseum content, it’s a hilarious plot line where all of the Pokémon they use are given whole personalities and arcs, and it’s hilarious. There’s two parts of it out right now, and part three is coming soon. If you watch it, tell me what you think
Too true. Some of my favorites in the series and some of the best soundtracks yet.
@@phi_greek colosseum is only part one, thought you wouldve mentioned that since its pretty obvious
i wish i could but i’m poor and not smart enough to download a good emu/rom without giving myself virus ;-;
Colosseum is my favorite game in the entire franchise. It made me love the double battle format, as suddenly moves that seemed entirely useless in single battles turn very useful in doubles because now you're *not* wasting your turn using something like weather moves, Reflect/Light Screen, or even Growl!
One thing about the limited choices of Colosseum is nice is that it gives Pokemon you'd often ignore a time to shine, plus it makes team building more meaningful when you gotta weigh your options.
I preach this to the romhack community all the time. Not every game needs to have 600 available Pokémon. Limited choices, when done well, can be really good
Colosseum made use out of what I dubbed Johto Shitmons as a means to give challenge to the player. Most enemies have good mons, you have garbage or mediocre mons on average. It took one of the worst parts about Gen 2(the terrible mons) and made it a strenght as part of its intentional design
@@jouheikisaragi6075 TBH unironically if I was building a romhack today, I'd style it after this. I think it's a good thing that the player has limited options and powerful pokemon are rare.
It felt more scrappy and engaging, beyond the challenge.
@@unlimitedpower978 a lot of difficulty hacks just turn into playing OU against a dumber player rather than a real Pokemon experience, they make games harder by making everything overpowered rather than by actively balancing a game around the player having specific options that are sub optimal.
@@jouheikisaragi6075 Agree - I'll never have the time or knowledge to make it, but my dream romhack would be sort of difficult but would focus super heavily on the RPG side of the house.
It's a story-heavy-ish game, and choices matter. Like early on in the story you have a choice to escape from bad guys either through the sewers or the forest, and whichever one you don't pick is inaccessible until post-game. And if the one you didn't pick was the only place in the game to catch a certain pokemon, tough.
And powerful pokemon are rare. Like there's a farmer NPC who can't get water for his crops, and if your pokemon knows water spout or rain dance, you can help him, and he'll reward you by being able to go into his backyard to look for wild pokemon. And that will be the only place in the game where you can catch, say Treeko or Bulbasaur. But if you can't help him then and there you lose that opportunity for the run. So every time you play the game you might have made very different decisions and ended up with a very different team.
And you'll have to make do with Linoone and Furret. I think the game is more interesting if you're like Joe Average or little Jimmy with the shorts taking on the world with Rattatta rather than the implied "chosen one" who is best pals w/ the region's professor and you start with a guaranteed powerful pokemon.
I wish this game would get a remake/remaster. It was way ahead of its time with the setting/plot, but I guarantee that in the modern day a game like this would do incredibly well
I don't know. I'm a lot more skeptical and feel these games wouldn't compare well to their main series counterparts.
Like, why do most people play Pokemon casually? To catch lots of Pokemon, make their own personal team and play how they want with a good amount of randomness and vaerity. Collesium doesn't really do that. Its encounters are "fixed", are few in number and come up in the same order every single time which hurts replayability and teambuilding. The purification system also asks players to grind. Like, a lot which drags down the pace.
Even the story/setting isn't that amazing. It's skin deep and doesn't really explore its themes or world or characters that much. Hell, even Scarlet/Violet have a darker plot with more death.
Essentially, Collesium is a Pokemon game that removes a lot of the things people like in Pokemon games. Which makes more sense when you read it was made by people who didn't get or made Pokemon games before.
Pokemon XD would absolutely be massively successful today, Colosseum has some issues. Trying to replay it recently, it just felt awful, and half the trainers in the game are all placed in one SUPER tedious section right at the start of the game.
Plus team options suck; teambuilding is Pokemon's "secret sauce", and you're stuck with mostly the gen 2 pokemon that got an evolution in Gen 4.
XD is fantastic and I recommend it to every single pokemon fan (with speedup to skip the battle animations). I really wanna see a port/sequel to that one.
masuda specifically said that we'd never get another one.
If these two got remake I hope it has the option to use as it was interface or the modern one that shows effective moves.
I'd be fine if they just added them to the store.xd isky fav pokemon game
This game is not only crazy to speedrun, it's also tough as hell to nuzlocke, but it's both possible and very satisfying when you get it
I guess if you're a little child you didn't play it, but this and XD were INSANELY hype when I was 10 or 11 and they first came out. Absolutely played these to dust, first time I paid attention to or cared about music in a video game with Miror B, just amazing games. I would love to replay them
they still have the best 3d idle animation for salamence
@@ILiekFishes **For all 386 Pokemon in Gen 3
Mirror b music slaps
@3godzilla3 this was when Nintendo put in more effort then hitting ctrl c ctrl v
"unless you're a child and didn't play it" buddy I wasn't even alive when this game came out and I'm halfway through college, pipe down grampa
Colosseum needs a remake, especially with Rui’s Snorlaxing problem
What snorlaxing problem?
The AI's ability to cheat in this game leaves my jaw in the floor every time i play it. I still love it
How do they cheat?
@bensosnowski1128 the opponent gets to check your two turns before it decides anything. then there is an AI "score" that tells the game how smart to make that NPC.
After getting full access to your two selections, then the AI selects its counter moves. this leads to very broken situations in which the AI has "perfect intuition", allowing a hugely unnatural advantage over the human player. It also knows whether hax such as paralyze and confuse are going to whiff or not
Can confirm. I had Raikou and Espeon out vs Dakim in the under colosseum, and I swapped Raikou for Heracross cause I knew it’d be able to tank an EQ, and his Claydol used psychic into that slot on the switch
Colosseum is so hard, but I loved this game. Seeing my favorite ‘Mons brought to life in 3D was sick as a kid.
It.not hard bro wtf hard is to open the heart of all 48 and beat Mr batalle 100 trainers and then you get ho-ho
Thank you for giving appreciation to this game. Recently I've seen nothing except negativity for this game in my recommended and I just didn't understand. This game really hit me differently, and it wasn't even nostalgia since I only played it as an adult. Probably my favorite pokemon game, it has its flaws (the girl blocking my path will forever haunt me) but its strengths make up for it tenfold.
That really frustrates me to hear you've seen negativity for these games. I've seen nothing but praise for them and have obsessively loved them since they came out.
I love Colosseum and XD: Gale of Darkness so damn much.
Colosseum specifically was the first game I saved for, I held onto Christmas money until the game was released here in the UK and sprint down to the local gamestore the day it came out.
I clocked an obscene amount of hours between the story, Mt Battle and the battle simulator. The soundtrack still lives Rent free in my head and the game was legitimately difficult at times with the constant double battles where the opponents actually employed some genuine competitive strats.
Too few people have experience this gem and it was criminal that we haven't had it ported anywhere since the Gamecube. Hopefully one day we get them on the Switch, so freaking good. Tied with Explorers of Sky as my favourite spin off.
Finally, more positive Colosseum content! It's so rare, and it's literally one of the best Pokémon games out there!
I actually loved colosseum. From the badass main protagonist to starting with umbreon and espeon. Just too good.
As you mentioned, coliseum and XD are quite different to regular pokemon games, which probably has quite a large effect on how the game is perceived.
Colloseum and XD were phenomenal its unfortunate we never got more like them
The music is good too! Nascour has the best battle theme in any Pokemon game.
I'm so glad I could include his theme in a few select moments in the video. 🤭
Mirror B tho 🤣
@@PulseEffects Look listen alright I've used the Chikarita okay in my Guts playthrough and trust me hes called Chikarita cause he know how to beat you no joke I've taken on taken on the other two starters and he/she not that bad I even defeated Cindaquil/ Quilava in my playthrough one my personal favorites not Typhlosion yet I'm still working on that except it's not that bad
Wasn't nascours battle silent? It was the big boss after who had a good theme
Nice, one thing I want to add besides the manip being kinda fascinating (doctor swelman made a vid on it if you want to learn more) is how insane the AI is in colo/XD (but you mostly see why in colo).
This AI has I think around 30 params and the weight based version applies different weights changes depending on many things. What's impressive is the sheer complexity: there's like weights that affects specific moves in specific situations totaling around I think it was ~500 weight effects total. We even found debugging utilities that lets us see the exact effects the effects has as moves and targets are being decided and it's actually crazy.
The interesting part is that XD has a similarly insane AI, but unfortunately, most of the AI in the main game are configured to use the random version while the opposite is true for colo: there's not that many AI that are random in main game. The bosses one are the only ones in both game configured to consider more than the standard ones, but you can tell with specific combos that it goes beyond the AI config where they would specifically choose the formation to have weight effects happens. That skill swap that was mentioned is actually an override case where if the target selection AI detects it, it will do it. You can actually find others like this such as flash fire.
Oh and yes, the AI can cheat (it reads your stats when it shouldn't in principle know the exact numbers) :)
I was obsessed with colosseum and XD as a kid. To this day still my fav pokemon games of all time.
Until you mentioned why to use Return 7 minutes in, I forgot I was watching a video about speedrunning and not just a Colosseum retrospective
I hope somebody makes a QOL mod for Pokemon Colosseum one day. Sure, speedrunners couldn't use it. But I can't recommend the game to a modern audience in good concious, due to it having one hell of A Grind.
Like, a "do the pokeball glitch in a casual playthrough" grind.
Can you elaborate please?
Yeah admittedly the lack of physical special split is one of the reasons I haven't checked it out yet despite wanting to!
There are a couple of romhacks for Colosseum out there. The best one is probably Pokemon Grand Colosseum, which is a QOL and difficulty hack. It includes things like the physical-special split, fairy types, and some more shadow Pokemon.
@@jackelliott3387 XD has a romhack called "XG" worth playing as well
I feel pretty great knowing this was my first pokemon game. Never even realized how hard it was until a recent playthrough.
This and XD were my favorite games as a kid and I played them both after beating all the gen 3 games. The game boy-cube link cable was my lifeblood for a few years lol
I love how you cover less mainstream speedruns.
I adore these video formats; lore and story of the pokémon games interspersed with the mechanics and execution of the speedrun
it makes for some easily-digestible and interesting viewing for the average joe, I love it!
edit: the music selection too, oooh yes
Using Taunt to stop enemy animations is pure genius
This is a great game, because if you played firered leafgreen ruby and sapphire, it was the only way to get some of the Pokémon on the Pokédex by breeding and transferring, and that you had to play game, cube and game boy and it was really a lot of fun and the way they showed it the transfer process.
Colosseum helped me fill up my FireRed pokedex. Glad to see it's helping with Speedruns.
This was my first pokémon game. The most unique and beloved game of my heart.
The last time I played I used a psudo sun team, with the starters plus Jumpluff, Meganium, Magcargo and Entei. It was a lot of fun to use given the doubles mechanics, and the sun helping the "weak" team reach a higher potential.
I've been binge watching your videos recently. Speedrunning is always an interesting topic to learn about, and you talk about it in a simple, but well-explained way. Keep it up
This was my first Pokémon game back in 2012 when my parents bought me a GameCube. Ever since then I’ve found all Pokémon games easy. This game shaped how Pokémon difficulty is supposed to be in my eyes
I haven't played much of colosseum myself, but it kinda reminds me of what I like about, say, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door. Both of these games are noticeably edgier than the norm for their respective series, but they don't get to the point where they'd be called "grimdark," rather, they just show places and aspects of the world that aren't explored much in the mainline games.
Your gonna reach 1M subs in no time and I'm shocked your didn't yet. You came with a quality and knowledge that few have.
Thanks so much! I put as much love as I could into representing my favorite Pokemon speedrun. 😌
@@PulseEffects This is part of my life as well and as a fellow player to another, go get them on the top.
You should just make more long-form versions of these videos. Would live to put on rants about speedruns that people are passionate about in the background. Great stuff.
Looking forward to the 2 hour version 😅
I just wish that we had another game with all double battles, so much more tactical and fun
The algorithm knows my love for pokemon and poketubers... it has blessed me with your channel. I have watched a few but your love for colosseum has me smiling because this and XD are 2 of my favorite games ever. Here's a new subscriber. :)
Man I loved Colosseum and XD: Gale of Darkness, these concepts were so cool to me! Loved the GameCube 3D pokemon games man, still got the Celebi from the bonus disc aswell!
I love Pokemon Colosseum. It is one of my favorite games from the franchise and I replayed it sooo many times. The limited Pokemon pool also gave me the opportunity to explore Pokemon I had never used before like Espeon, Umbreon, and Raikou.
Dear lord, how did it take 8 months for this to hit my recommended feed? Actually shocked I didn't see this video considering I'm already subscribed; I love watching these speedrunning videos and Pokemon Colosseum is my number one favorite game from my childhood and the first Pokemon game I've ever owned.
Can't wait to watch all the way through!
Pokemon Colosseum was my first Pokemon game. It means so much to me 😭
Another banger, love your videos!
I loved this game as a kid. I’m glad it held up.
Funny enough the skill swap at the end helped me because it made the slowking have to wait so I could take out the other pokemon
its wild to me you still have (not that its low, but in reference) such a low subcount (sorry i dont intend for the backhanded compliment)
the quality and effort of your videos is amazing, you can tell theres time put into them. not to mention the knowledge you have is pretty amazing as well!
awesome video, love ur channel, keep up the pog content (:
5:13 wow, this just happened this weekend! That psyshock play was insane
By far one of my favorite pokemon games, along with XD. Such a different approach to pokemon
My absolute favorite Pokemon game (tied with XD: Gale of Darkness, of course). Every Pokemon fan needs to play these games. Miror B's theme from XD is my ringtone to this day.
08:42
"My other two dogs like chewing on my mint plant."
- rmcBloody
Loved this game as a teenage kid back during the Nintendo GameCube era. but some MANY years later, I saw a trivia-based video of this game here on youtube where apparently the makers of pokemon colosseum and its sequel(ANOTHER amazing game)actually and SHOCKINGLY DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING about pokemon! which is bizarre on accounting of just how cool the games turned out, they even got ALL of the type matchups, stats, level up moves and abilities correctly, so I was just left completely DUMB-struck as for HOW they didn't really know anything about the games.
And anyways... sometime after the game was made, gamefreak TRIED to get in contact with the people that made coloseum, but when they learned it was done by people who basically KNEW NOTHING about pokemon... they basically attempted to DISTANCE themselves from these two games and BURY it in the past in hopes that these games would end up getting forgotten. . .
And.. THAT. . . is why gamefreak has basically pretended that these games never existed and never acknowledged their existence in anything, ANYTHING! not in references, reused soundtracks, not even loose cameo's or easter eggs in any of the smash bros titles. I think there WAS a pokemon based fighting game(Poken Tournament, I think it was)in which we actually got to see a shadow mewtwo, which was really.. REALLY fricking weird and I DON'T KNOW what was the story of just HOW that came into being... but after that. . . well. . . . it just went right back to seeing absolutely NOTHING, not one hide nor hair of this series ever again. . . .
Which is really dumb especially since they allowed ILCA to botch the gen 4 remakes granted they at least made home so they did know some of pokemon but still Genius Soladarity did these games so much better
that actually goes a long way to explain why the story (and the cleverness of enemy strategies) doesn't feel like a pokemon game at all lol
basically, why gamefreak sucks in a nutshell
Just a minor note: Earthquake actually gets weaker when there are multiple mons on the field. Its power drops to 75, which is still decent but not as devastating as taking 2 100 bp moves at once.
Nah it's actually one of the only spread moves that keeps its BP the same! A lot of folks miss this fact.
@@PulseEffects is this exclusive to colosseum? Because in the mainline games Earthquake behaves like any other spread move.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 in Gen 3 spread moves work differently. Moves that hit both foes and not your ally have a 50% penalty instead of 25%, and moves that hit all other mons in the field have no penalty. Since Earthquake hits your ally, it has full power on all targets in Colosseum.
I never played colosseum but seeing it reminds me so much of formal fantasy or kingdom hearts. It’s clear what they were going for
This game has such a unique tone, it's really great and I'd love to see a more adult styled Pokemon game again.
Though of the Shadow Pokemon duology, I find myself going back to play XD more often since it's just a lot more refined and better paced. Shadow Pokemon moves are more generally useful with more variety (and are a lot more threatening in the enemy's hands too since you're supposed to deal with these while capturing the enemy's shadow Pokemon,) the purification process is a lot less clunky and in general it manages to keep up a solid difficulty without being nearly as grindy because of stupid late game level jumps.
Honestly I have pokemon from all my playthroughs of it never got a shiny on colosseum but I have all the all the legendaries and shadow pokemon not a huge flex but nostalgic wise it was worth playing through again over the years it was what they finally did with pokemon on the 3ds but 10 years earlier and 10x better
Decided to start a nuzlocke of this game after watching this. Crazy to think so many people have never played this
Agreed, I really thought that more folks knew about it, but I imagine the low sales of the GameCube compared to handheld was the true reason why this game sold so poorly.
@@PulseEffects completely agree. Especially when other main series games are on either the game boy or ds. So they don’t feel inclined to go out and buy a whole new console
I love how the background music to a furret is the theme to Calamity Gannon
The fact there's a lot of depth that goes into minimizing the amount of time lost due to move animations is actually a really unique part of this speed run. Yea being able to turn them off would probably be preferred for replayability sake, but it's still cool that there's a "meta" around it.
i remember me playing this game on the gamecube as a little kid... it was so awesome
this game actively shaped my taste in video games
Ok. I've played, and beaten this game. I love it, it is not as hard, as you make it out to be. Gale of darkness, the sequel, is a whole nother story.
Kid me never knew I could pick a starter. I boxed Bayleef as soon as I got it for the entire game.
I knew nothing of this game until earlier this week, but once I saw the Eevee friends ride along with you in the sidecar, I knew it was a good one 😊
Don't even get me started with how hard mt. battle is in the 90s....
Electrode + misdreavus is brutal
Huh, so glitches are allowed in the speedrun? I'm surprised that no one seems to be using the (near) instant purification glitch. That'd speed things up significantly.
Edit for the glitch itself:
It's available the instant you get to Agate Village.
At one of the upper levels, there's like this little ledge that overhangs the lower levels.
IIRC, it's kind of to the right of the village, or maybe more in the middle? I don't exactly remember. It's been a while since I played the game.
Anyways, on the overhang, you kinda get yourself right into the middle of the ledge, and hold down and right on the analogue stick.
If the camera starts shaking like crazy, the glitch is working, and it'll rapidly whittle down the Shadow Pokemon's shadow level really fast as just walking with them lowers it.
It doesn't take long at all to completely remove their shadow levels, even on a legendary, then just a quick jaunt to the temple for purification.
Edit 2: Turns out there's a demonstration here: th-cam.com/video/4-iJwws2vLo/w-d-xo.html
And you don't have to do it at the upper level, you can do it on the very first ledge to the left after loading in on the boardwalk.
Though iirc, the doing it on one of the upper ledges is much faster. Could be wrong though.
Speedrunners use this in the All Snags category. It's so convenient!
I rented this game once and could NEVER find a hard copy after that, I genuinely belived I had just dreamt the game up lol
I love this game, really curious about speed running it actually
The idear from these games (XD included) where realy great and i would like that a new game used them again. Not only the idear of stealing but a less optimistic world in run downed citys.
Sorry for my bad english i am german
Makes me want to play it again. My mom preordered it for me when I was 8.
For a normal playthrough a pokemon with sleep powder or a sleep move in general is op theres other Pokémon to take fire and water moves bayleaf does work for snagging
I own it, but I think I got XD first, and I was taken with how cool Shadow Lugia is. Can't say I've revisited it much, let alone run it. Hearing a tune from it elsewhere makes me think about looking into again before summer break is too far gone.
This game is amazing. I played it for the first time late last year and I haven't felt this excited and amazed about a pokemon game since ORAS (sapphire was my childhood so the remake being my first 3DS game and the first thing I bought from my first job/payslip was so exciting). I stopped playing at Mt Battle as I was moving states but now that I have a living room, this was the first game I played, and the first time I've played on a TV and couch in years. This game is just amazing, I'm definitely sinking money into XD when I finish this.
9:40 While Colosseum's Shadow Rush was a lot of power early, quite a few of XD's later shadow moves were more powerful when you consider their super-effectiveness to most targets. The Shadow Legendary Birds will clean up the entire post-game even if you don't purify them. The same could not be said for the Dogs.
crit shadow rush is still stronger than those moves. However, there is also this move called shadow sky which si basically rain dance and sand storm at the same time. Yeah, that move is broken, lol.
I freaking loved colosseum as a kid. And even now, as an adult, I still love it. That’s all I have to say about that 😊
I used chikorita for my most recent playthrough of this game. Meganium is already pretty bulky being a pure grass type and it learns reflect and light screen by level up which helps so much when constantly trying to snag pokemon in double battles
11:48 OMG Furret is secretly Calamity Ganon in disguise
One of my fav games when I was but a wee lass. Great video
Lost to time? This game holds up better than any modern pokemon game made in the last 10 years🤣
Colosseum was my first Pokemon game, and i adored it. In fact i just couldn't play other pokemon games and have as much fun after this... The double battles just add so much options and strategy, the limitations you have to deal with, and overall, the protagonist looks rad and more of a "realistically" independant teen than other game's children protags.
My favourite Pokémon games (1&2) until Legends Arceus. I still have both my original save files.
I remember playing this and running to my mom asking how the game knew my name😂
Thank you for mentioning VGC :D
This is the best Pokémon game ever made.
Still my favorite game i ever played growing up. I miss my copy i had
Pokemon colosseum is the game that cemented furret as my favorite pokemon. While it may be an issue during speedrunning. I as a casual player i always catch it. And its always on my team. I love it
My first speedrun ever was Colosseum back in 09, a segmented all snags run. Took me 6 months to get a 7h 17m result, not bad for a first time run without access to RNG manipulation for IVs and other runs to learn strategies from
Have you thought of picking it up again? 😮
@@PulseEffects I have considered it, would have to learn how things have changed from my old strategies and approach since I used Feraligatr in that run
Its a real shame they refuse to port these 2 gamecube games to Switch. They would sell insanely well.
Pokemon Colosseum was wild, I still own the Espeon from my first playthrough back in 2004, and now his serious and stubborn self is sitting in Pokemon Home waiting for S/V to get support.
I remember resetting like 80 times in a row to catch that stupid suicune
it even has an increased catch rate in this game. It is still very low, however.
Criminally underrated pokemon game. The game was just amazing and challenging. It gave us something new and fresh. Also OST is full of bangers.
Okay analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Although, I don't understand the use of the "Unusable item into X Item" Glitch. Is it just so the X Item isn't confused? Does it let the 2nd Pokemon still take its turn? Why not just use the X Item?
This basically let's you set up multiple X Items, or setup an X Item while attacking!
This was my favorite game growing up
"Colosseum walked so Arceus could run"
Idk, I'd say Colosseum is much better than Arceus
A re re lease with updates, this is him
Huh. Unrelated, but I just realized that the Pokeball capture animation in Colosseum is a hand grabbing the Shadow Pokemon. Neat.
One of my favorite pokemon games (along with XD). even now I keep a wii with my current consoles to go back and replay the gamecube pokemon games) (last replayed 2 years ago)
9:02 HEDGEHOG?!
THEY'RE A BADGER
YOU CANT BE DOIN MY BOY LIKE THIS
Idk I think they’re a hedgehog lol cyndaquil’s name in French is literally just fire hedgehog and what badger has quils?? Lol
@@lucasgarcia8285 they don't have quils..?
like i get it's in the name but i haven't seen them spikey ever
I never got Colosseum because, from the name, I figured it was a game like Stadium, focused entirely on battles with no single player campaign. I did get XD and loved it, though.
I remember facing that Slaking for the first fine. Biggest wall after Winary's Miltank.
I both love pokemon colosseum and gale of darkness. It's just a shame that the best pokemon games were made just ao the gba games could get some pokemon that weren't available in said games
I found this game a while back for a surprisingly good price, so I got it! I still haven't finished it because college is a bitch, but it's a lot of fun.
I think "broke" might be a bit hyperbolic. But Colosseum was and always will be a treasure of a game. Such a bitchin soundtrack!
PLEASE HELP what song is that at 11:40 it’s so familiar but I can’t name it and its driving me crazy