What to do about that Windows Update?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- The Crowdstrike Windows BSOD issue shows how affected our personal computers are by outside updates. Windows Update especially has become very invasive with its CoPilot Recall spyware, the advertising and tracking malware that they're installing on people's computers without their consent. Let's see what's going on with Windows now, what you can do about it and what you should watch out for.
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1. The Crowdstrike outage was nothing to do with Windows, they had a similar issue with Linux earlier this year too. WI dows was receiving illegal instructions because Crowdstrike run a kernel driver and inject code into it which is an unusual thing and it bit them in the ass with a malformed update.
2. Your system bluescreening doesn't lose your user files. It's only the system that is affected, user data is preserved.
3. I've NEVER had a bluescreen from updates on a dozen systems at home or countless work PCs (I work in IT doing Cloud Infrastructure).
4. You should allow at least security updates if not feature updates or you're doing more harm than good. Even Titus does NOT recommend disabling security updates.
5. I have reviewed the Atlas 0.4.0 scripts last month and can confirm it's not malicious and no tracking etc... It's a collection of powershell and batch scripts and the installer is just a runbook which you can decompile. It does basically the same thing as Titus Winutil, the only additional extra really is helper scripts, a few system property changes and adds a wallpaper. Though I do prefer Winutil for it's portability, and being able to save a predefined config.
If you want the safest, don't use either of these options. There's tutorials and github configs on how to build your own "winlite" image from the official image from Microsoft using its unattended functionality. Including changes to windows update behavior (I do this at home as I can do a fresh install, with all my device drivers and bloat stripped from the installer (reduced threads) from the very moment i boot windows).
No need to run additional software and wait for that to run predefined configs.
It's also faster for doing multiple machines as well since all the config is done from the moment you install. You can also make the installer unattended so you don't have to interact with any prompts at all.
Thank you for your very insightful comment, as well as taking your time as an expert in this field to go over the Atlas OS code and check it out!
Also, allow me to clarify a few things wrt your points.
The purpose of this video is to be an entertaining point-of-contact video, not to be a detailed instruction video. So it is more about providing context and starting points where (new) people can explore more in-depth on their own, rather than a complete start-to-end instruction.
As such, I used the Crowdstrike incident as a hook to introduce the potential impact of updates on our computers, dispel the image that updates are by definition good and thus why people may want to have more control over updates on their devices via 3rd party methods.
With this, I used the BSOD as a backdrop reference to the Crowdstrike update (like how I normally have a key phrase/word written on paper)
For the 3rd party methods, I used AtlasOS as an example, since I have personal experience with it and it's quite presentable to point to. My goals with this were:
1. To show that solutions outside of Windows exist that can be very useful
2. That not all these solutions should be trusted on face value, or on a TH-camr recommendation.
Whilst I have little reason to doubt your validation of Atlas, there are definitely malicious solutions online. Solutions that a young teenage me might have happily downloaded after seeing it in a video. Since we're talking about someone's personal OS, especially for people who may not be as computer savvy as you, I'd rather have them err on the side of caution and double check the incentives and verifiability of any solution they encounter before throwing it onto their PC.
I really like your suggestion about Winlite as well. Although I do not have personal experience with it, it seems useful and I will pin this comment if people want to explore it further on their own.
chris titus tech winutil exists
edit: well actually you mentioned it so nevermind..
We miss such a comment! Thank you
@@jarsky To be clear, this is 100 percent the EU's and Crowdstrike fault. A 2009 agreement, initiated in 2006 by Symantic , with the European Commission meant it was unable to make security changes that would have blocked the CrowdStrike update as it gave around 12 security software makers access to the kernel.
What went wrong here that a fully signed driver was able to bork 10 million Windows machines remember that Microsoft fully tested and vetted and approved and signed the crowd strike driver in the whql lab and the driver didn't change just the channel update file did the channel files are used as input to the driver and we subsequently learned that the channel 291 update file was made up entirely of zeros so it wasn't the driver, it was the channel update file that MS has no control over The other issue is it was a required boot driver which is why it caused boot loops.
I think it's time to tell the EU to either accept it or make their own software. I mean, they love to regulate software but what software does the EU actually make? I think the stance should be if you don't trust it, don't use it and write your own OS/software or contract it out to make sure you get the source code. While US and other countries do have anticompetitive practices, this proves that letting security providers push out updates which they apparently didn't test themselves was the problem.
Think about it, if they had done any internal QA they would have caught the issue immediately. It appears the update was pushed out without ever being tested and people don't do that for any type of software but not doing it on a kernel level driver is just complete incompetency by Crowdstrike.
Microsoft is already taking steps to make sure they no longer have to give kernel code to anyone. In fact they even wrote software that gave higher privileges and would have allowed Crowdstrike to do what they needed without tampering with the kernel but the EU wouldn't use it because it still gave MS too much control. It's either time for the EU to accept what they get is secure or write their own software. This was 100 percent human incompetence caused by the EU regulations.
This sounds so familiar to me. My work laptop recently died (battery) and the replacement had Windows 11 on it. I swore out loud (and startled an employee) when I first saw an advertised link in my start screen.
I paid money for this, I bought it, it's mine. What Windows 11 is doing is like me turning up at your newly-built home after you've lived there for 2 years and going "Yeah I arranged the building permit for this place, so give me money or leave your house"
Atlas OS is just a bunch of powershell scripts like how other people are saying, but Atlas OS does some unsafe changes to your windows install that normal users shouldn't be doing, like for example changes your default user policy from administrator to admin mode (both sound the same but are actually incredibly different). admin mode runs every program in administrator mode instead of user mode by default, u can already see how dangerous this is as there will be no user account control popup to verify running a program into kernel access mode. its best to avoid using atlas os for security reasons unless if u dont make mistakes in extreme circumstances. winutil is however the best tool to remove the spyware and other unnecessary bloat in windows, and it gives u a choice of what to remove/add, as well as giving short descriptions upon mouse hover.
So the thing with multiple Linux distros is not that big of a deal for developers. Hardware is handled by the kernel (which in all distros is the Linux kernel) or kernel modules (the Linux equivlent to a device driver, but behave more like a mod to the kernel still independent of distro). With userland software it's easier with opensource because a distro maintainer can make the required tweaks before placing it in their disro's software repo (Debian for instance does this exstensively for security back patches on the lts releases with software that updates more ferquently, instead of pushing the newest features on users). However for years there has been closed-source programs that come with their own installers that will install and run on any distro. In more recent years new software packaging methods like flatpak and appimage have been developed to make it easier for a closed source developer to have their software run on any distro. Both of which aren't without controversy because they basically solve the problem by having each program ship in it's own container which is a bit more bloated then the classic package manager for your distro.
As for the hardware examples you mentioned, there are other models/brands that work fine on Linux it just sucks if you didn't know you wanted to run Linux before you invested in ones that don't work.
Linux isn't something you just "switch to" it's a long process of change a lot of habits/work flows. In my case I was already using Libreoffice, kdenlive, blender, gimp, ect on windows for years and I avoided Live service games before I "switched". So when I did the only things I had to deal Nvidia drivers (which was solved by running Pop_os! at first) and one game that used battleye anti cheat, but that has since been patched after the steamdeck came out. However even just were I was with Windows years ago isn't for everyone, which I understand.
Thanks so much for your very insightful comment!
I can very well understand that expecting Linux to just be a "drop-in-replacement Windows" is a bit shortsighted. Kinda like how switching from an iPhone to Android doesn't mean I can keep using my same iPhone cases and Apps. But I feel that a lot of people kinda expect that, especially if they are (like me) bought into the Windows ecosystem.
It's interesting to hear about how software isn't as hard as I expected it would be. The Gaming support has been a great improvement too. So much so that I am considering doing a Linux challenge on my Game PC for a video on the Postma One Gaming channel.
What would be a good Gaming Distro that you'd recommend for that?
@@MichelPostma I would recommend Pop!_OS or any distro you are familiar with
1:13 i love how he pulls out that nokia which is the same as mine (that nokia is new i bought it in 2020)
Hell yeah, I got mine in 2020 too!
Thanks! This really helped me understand. You need more subs! I love your style of content.
You're welcome, I am glad my video was helpful and thank you so much!
You need more subs
Thank you, I'm trying my best :)
Yw
I actually find Linux systems to be really nice. I just. am held back by two programs, Adobe and all of their programs. and the advanced backup portal that I use to manage all of my files so I can quickly reference and search. I can afford losing games. I can afford losing access to other programs, but losing Adobe and losing my backup software with the. search engine would be a critical problem for me if they were at on Linux, I would no longer be on windows.
I really feel you on that! Over the years I have become more and more familiar with DaVinci Resolve, however Photoshop is still hard to live without.
Seeing how Nvidia all of a sudden came through with Open Source drivers, maybe there'll be one day where adobe will change their minds
Adobe products work best on Mac, well I know their video editing stuff does, not sure about pnotoshop. You could run Windows in some free virtualization software but performance wouldn't be as good as native. Ado e ain't ever making software for Linux.
People get frustrated for having to enter a password to install software or run a command as sudo. I have seen people turn it off or disable it. Doesn't matter how much security you have if you leave the door open and alarm system off
Considering Linux runs 95% of the internet, AWS, Google cloud, Azure and essentially all virtualization technology like VMware, it's certainly got its place. It's only free until you monetize it, then you have to pay which is more than fair.
Wish the greedy companies would support linux even indie devs have linux port's of their software.
You are aware 95% of the internet is run on Linux don't you?. Same with AWS, Google cloud services, and even Azure all rely on Linux. Heck, MS even has their own custom Linux distro for Azure.
Linux is only free until you monetize it. VMWare is Linux based, most virtualization technology if not all is. But VMware has to pay licensing fees to the Linux foundation or whoever.
They make a great OS but software is an issue and if for bigger or more popular it would be targeted more.
The entire Crowdstrike thing is the EU's fault. MS couldn't have prevented it. Crowdstrike only exists because of antitrust lawsuits against MS. In fact they were in the process of doing the same thing to Apple. They had kernel.and sent out a driver full of zeros. It's a required boot driver. That's the cause of the boot loops. All human error and none by MS.
MS even made software that allowed higher privileges because they have never been happy with their kernel code in other companies hands that the EU contracts out and the EU still said it gave MS too much control.. I have zero idea why any US company would pay them as they make a glorified version of Windows defender.
I think it's time we stop bending over backwards for the EU. While I'm generally for their pro consumer laws, this one came back to night them bad.
Like I said, Linux runs 85% of the interest. If this has happened on Linux it would have been ridiculously worse.
I'm not an MS fan but every company or industry has their own niche software or in-house written stuff and it's all targeted towards Windows. That's where Ms makes the majority of their money. That ain't changing.
Linux is a joke. I have been hearing linuxlosers say this shit since the mid-90s. It is as hilarious now as it was then. We live in a Windows world and that is not going to change.
@@Great-Documentaries Linux may be a joke to you on desktop but it's not in the real world. It runs over 90% of the internet. Without Linux Google, OpenAI, VMWare, Android, PlayStation , AWS, Azure and so much more that I can't even think of wouldn't exist at all.
I'm an IT administrator and mainly deal with Windows, especially on the desktop side, but IIS, which is what Windows server uses to be web server, is a joke compared to running a web server off Linux
Also, how many Linux desktops did this happen too and how many security vulnerabilities are found compared to Windows. Before you say it's because nobody uses it, Linux desktop and server are pretty much identical, desktop versions just have a GUI. Server versions can run either. So can desktops. Heck, you can run Windows headless (no GUI) and just use Powershell which I do on some Windows servers because you get a performance boost with no GUI.
So without Linux, Windows would suck because the Internet pretty much would work if not completely not work at all. Probably your router and modem wouldn't work. That's the difference. Windows is on one device, computers, Linus is on probably 10K+ devices if not way more.
@@Great-Documentaries So im a loser cause i dont want candy crush bundled in? Okay fair enough i guess im a loser 😭
@@Great-Documentaries Linux would be a joke to me if windows wasn't slowly becoming a operating system that is a billboard and nothing else
windows 7 is the last version of windows that allows you to fully turn off updates. i've pulled hair out trying to break windows 10 updates, trying to disable, remove, block. i even blocked all the windows update sites on my router.
the only thing that worked was hackintoshing my machine and switching my other devices to linux. windows 10 was also sniffing files i had, and would delete what they see as unsafe when reality, it is wither just old software, or old media saved on a external hdd.
Yup, I had the exact same experience where I would download and run heaps of stuff, play with hosts files and firewall rules to thw point where I didn't even know what I'd all done and who or what I had given access to my PC.
So for that I am now happy with WinUtil, although Windows Defender did flag one of the files from the purchasable executable as suspicious. But I think that's just as you say, its not familiar with it.
That said, I will try to find out more about this. But keep in mind, I'm no expert at this, so dont really take me word for it
I have had far more problems with third-party AV than I ever have had with Windows itself. BitDefender in particular kept identifying and quarantining bits of the gcc++ compiler as "hacking tools".
In Services ... Disable Background Intelligent Transfer (BITS), Connected User Experience and Telemetry (DiagTrack), Windows Update (WUASERV) and Windows Update Medic (WaaSMedicSvc).
Also disable the triggers for these events in Task Scheduler.
Checking in Settings/update and security you should see "Your organization has disabled automatic updates" ....
@@cedar234 Do an unattended install and you can disable Windows updates, telemetry, pretty much everything you want. Only allow local accounts, disabled the windows store. Have an early start menu with no ads, remove Windows programs like bitlocker to notepad.
XP-PEN TABLET MENTIONED!!!!!
XP-PEN ARTISTS REPRESEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENT-
It's so good! One of the best purchases I've made last year. Will probably cover it in a future video probs
Michel: You should leave these kinds of videos to people who have some idea what they are talking about. This was embarrassing to watch. 🤡🤡🤡
If you open source in the woods where nobody sees it is it really open source? :p
About as open source as the fallen tree on the 0 views github page ;)
Erm a bad update shouldnt or wouldnt dump all your user data. If Windows doesnt boot you just remove the drive put it in a dock and copy the user data off it. Then just slap a new build on. Sorted. 20 minutes work.
That sounds like a good solution as well.
Unfortunately I didn't take a dock and spare drive with me on my vacation, so I wouldn't have been able to do that. Which is why I'd personally still like to have more control over Windows.
@@MichelPostma Yeah thats what Chromebooks are for! Grins. Just pointing out that bad updates rarely if ever destroy your user data.
Ah, I see what you are getting at, good point.
The blue screen of death is related to hardware, not the files in your hard drive.
Linux is not for regular general users at all. The only real operating system for Linux that is, is Arch. And Arch is not for beginner Linux users. Everything else is catered best for servers, and not all programs support Linux operability. So stay away from Linux, and stick to either Mac or Windows.
not for regular general users? well if you go to a video like this chances are you aren't a regular general user.
regular general users would be fine with linux if it was marketed properly and was preinstalled on machines, because most regular general users dont need much from a computer.
dankpods but with a second camera and not just a pair of hands
thats what dropbox is for......
Sorry but one You can't approach Linux Like a Windows OS, which is exactly how he approaches it. You also have to truly learn how it works. and 2, Don't fall for that wine (Windows Is Not an Emulator) Is just a program that Translates Windows calls and stuff to language that Linux can use. Is complex and for many won't work well. Stick to steam and native Linux games, plenty are available, and of course too, non-games. One example is and yes not just for Linux but IMO how a game should be developed, To Many Platforms is War Thunder. I run Linux and have since 2010, and have gamed since then too. These are the fact, Linux does support most hardware, if not there are ways of making it work through downloadable source-code to build Libraries or whatever is needed, or wait until the Kernel developers add it into the Kernel, you may call it drivers, we call it Modules. And Chris Titus, LMAO He's still a Linux Guy.
You emote with your hands too much. It's almost violent.
Irish dankpods
Take SSD out put it in a USB enclosure or use bootable Linux USB get your important files off.
i wasnt even about to let windows run on my laptop...so i simply installed linux the first time turned the machine on...
What linux distro are you running on it?
@@MichelPostma linux mint 29.3 cinnamon 5.2.7
Ah cool, what made you go for Linux Mint?
@@MichelPostma it was there...
Microsoft do what they wants to do simply because, really, you and me don't have a choice!! and you need those updates for security and to stay safe online, otherwise, you are screwed with the amount of vulnerabilities found every day
well disable windows update duh
By far the best and most reliable way to do that is by Group Policy, which famously isn't available on Home SKUs. It's why most "disable Windows updates" guides semi-randomly disable system services and pray, which often causes more problems than it solves. Frustrated by this, you get comments like the one above where some rando loudly, confidently - and above all _wrongly_ - proclaims that updates can't be disabled at all past Windows 7.
I tell to my mom that use windows that updating windows destroy your software and my mom so scared and right now my family is ready to go fix my mom laptop in tech guy:v
If you're worried about your current Windows install, it may be worth it to save all your files on an external drive and do a fresh install of Windows to clean up any bad drivers and such.
Then when it comes to finding a balance between security and system stability, I think that the security updates setting from WinUtil works well for me.
It basically gives you no feature updates that mess things up and give you security updates 4 days after they come out, so you miss those day 1 bugs.