ROG Ally | Auto TDP Issue!?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video I'll show you why I don't use Auto TDP, and why you might also want to avoid it (for now). The program has amazing potential, but still needs some tuning.
Link to handheld companion if you like tinkering: github.com/Valkirie/HandheldC...
0:00 - Intro
0:18 - CPU Boost ON
0:34 - CPU Boost OFF
1:16 - Auto TDP Issue
2:23 - Crysis - Boost ON
2:51 - Crysis - Boost OFF
3:13 - Crysis - Auto TDP
5:40 - My Thoughts
6:18 - More Settings (Companion)
7:00 - Final Outro - เกม
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Been watching since you first started posting these. Thanks for doing the work for many of us who don't have that much time on our hands due to work or whatever else. Thanks for all the videos and for helping out the Ally community. The sub was long overdue.
Thanks for all your helpful videos bro. You deserve more subs
Its a great proof of concept that will surely mature into something great given the time
I use auto tdp for all my games at 60fps and set the games so they can easily hit above 60fps.
I haven't really noticed much stuttering, but I'll check into it, and turning the boost off is an interesting idea, never tried that. If it letters the watts based in the fps cap it might do the same thing for me. Thanks for the video.
Great vid. Subscribed.
Hey dude! Love the channel; i've been recommending it to heaps of people. Just some feedback, Id love to see MORE "How to" set of tutorial videos for ideal setups for various types of games. Step by Step videos on exactly how to enable various features, how to tinker. I often see videos of people saying "X enabled" without going into much detail of how to do that specific thing. Just something to consider! Thanks
Thanks! :) That is a great idea and something I'm definitely interested in. And I also see a lot of videos where they say "do this" with no explanation 🤣. I try to explain things in detail. In this video I didn't explain all the things I was doing as well, but I have tutorials on the channel for CPU boost, manual power levels, etc that are much more in-depth.
Would you prefer to see just regular gameplay over benchmarks? I've been running benchmarks because it's the only way to get accurate results, but I was thinking about doing a video of just random gameplay like you saw in this one for settings. It might be more interesting, even though it'll be less accurate.
Nice video. I’m looking forward to an improved Auto TDP. Does you use HC for capping these frames like Forzing H 5? And do you also need to cap the frames in game then or would HC override?
Me too! The potential of Auto TDP is AMAZING, just needs to be fine tuned some to be more stable. Then I'm going to be using it all the time once it's working properly :). I used MSI/RTSS to cap the FPS. I'm thinking about making a video on why the built in FPS in command center is useless, but I'm not sure many people use it.
@@filt3rlessI use RTSS without Afterburner. Framelimiter and better frametime still works correctly right?
The issue is that AutoTDP is always going to be lagging behind as it tries to match the intended framerate. Your idea of keeping CPU boost off is sound as there's no reason for many games (though not all) to make use of the boosting/turbo behavior as these handhelds are generally GPU bound but not CPU bound.
One argument someone *might* make for AutoTDP in favor of the battery savings for the ROG Ally specifically is as long as the 0.1%/1% lows stay above 48fps it's "fine"... yes that's high and there's some conflicting information about the VRR range and LFC... but this might be something someone argues.
I'm on your side though, I would prefer a more stable frametime delivery than simply the reported average.
I agree, I do see if battery is the highest priority where it's useful. I definitely prefer the stable FPS as well to what I was experiencing with Auto TDP. Not to mention, the tool is overriding Armoury Crate. I don't know all the in's/out's to what it's controlling/changing to achieve that, but the fact it's doing that could have some cause for concern. I still hope they get it working well though. To have slightly higher watt usage, but being able to set the FPS and have it auto tune the device would be awesome (something Asus should have!) haha.
No good feature IMO, but it is an excellent tool and I'm keeping a close eye on it.
There is also a "non-handheld" version that has more features and options. I believe they can work together in tandem.
I haven't tried out the normal x86 one yet, might have to give it a shot and see. And we're both keeping an eye on it, I can't wait for it to get ironed out and be able to use it. Asus should build something like it into the system by default (with less aggressive watt pull back). I wonder how hard it is to make a handheld..... haha. I'd love to make one, and tune it properly so people get a very cool running device that works. I'm sure it's way too in-depth to do though :/
Auto tdp can make game performance worse in many instances. It’s better to cap your games via the game if possible.
Agreed 100%! I can't wait for updates though for Auto TDP, as soon as it's stable I'm making an in-depth video testing a bunch of games and FPS levels :)
No way I’m playing a game in 40fps. At minimum 50 for freesync be enabled :((
@ninhosensei 40fps is halfway between 30fps and 60fps in technical terms, 40fps feels amazing on these handhelds.
@@crashdude7589 but the freesync only activates in 48. Halfway would be 45.
@@ninhosensei40 fps with rsr can get you up to 60 stable if you don’t max all settings. I can run sf6 upscale to 1080 at all high settings with reflections, motion blur and ambient lighting off. Or at 1080 native with med low settings at 60fps. (25w docked) not 30w, I could still get a bit more once I get a compatible dock.
Also vrr is almost unnoticeable if you don’t want to upscale. Unless you are constantly staring at the fps meter. It’s a handheld, you are expecting full pc power, that’s not here yet bro.
He is showing the max performance of a game, it’s up to you to make it stable at the rates you want.
please do a test with JamesCJ60 - Universal-x86-Tuning-Utility-Handheld, ETA Prime tested it and seems to be ok...
They just need to add a hotkey for desktop user.... cause the overlay only works with gamepad mode!
I have CPU boost disabled and setup custom game profile in Armoury Crate at fixed TDP of: 10W, 18W, 20W, 22W, depending on the game that I am playing.
E.g. Hells of Tormet I have it set to 10W, Genshin Impact + Star Rail at 18W and I have no issues running these games.
I am more of a person who wants to save as much power and get as low the temperature on the handheld as possible.
The only part that I find it so confusing is to get RSR to work properly. Should I set the Windows resolution to 1080 and in game to 720? or should I set both Windows and in game to 720?
Windows at 1080p and set game resolution to 720p. Turn on RSR and check the adrenaline software to make sure its running. Some games wont work because they default to the desktop resolution and don't allow you to change it.
RSR is an absolute pain, I have a guide on it: th-cam.com/video/tJI0-8CCV5U/w-d-xo.html
You'll want to have it set to 720p before launching the game. If the game launches at 1080p, then you'll most likely need to set it to 720p, close the game and re-open it again. Check out that video to see how to get the overlay working so you can see if it's actually working.
1:16 - Jump straight to the issue with Auto TDP
5:14 - When I said they could fix Auto TDP by adding 1, 2 or 3 watts. I just realized that's the exact wattage it's using with CPU Boost OFF 🤣5:38
Also, I have an Asus G15 that scores:
CPU: 8,500 (Boost OFF)
GPU: 11,000+
And I rarely run into a CPU bottleneck on it.
The ROG Ally scores:
CPU: 8,000+ (Boost OFF)
GPU: 2,700
The chances of the ROG Ally bottlenecking (in any meaningful way), is very slim. Emulation can definitely benefit, but for just playing normal games at normal settings, you'll benefit a LOT more with it off than on. And you can always flip it on the check. I found the FPS, especially the 0.1% lows to be more unstable with boost on because of the CPU trying to draw watts away from the GPU. Not only in this ROG Ally, but in the 15+ Asus laptops I've owned over the years with AMD chips.
Hey Filterless, quick one if you please. when I play a game like fortnite and I go from DX12 to Performance mode (which should improve FPS), I notice that the GPU usage is reduced to around 60% from 90%. I dont have an FPS limiter or something like this. So is there a way to get the GPU to increase its clock speed? Will Auto TDP help?
Hey, Auto TDP will definitely not help. I just released a video on it. It's probably something to do with either the AMD drivers or the GPU itself. It also could be the way the game implements it. I'm not too sure on the in's and out's of DX12, but I know Nvidia handles it a lot better in the tests I've seen.
@@filt3rless Thanks for the reply. Yes also in AMD it seems DX12 is implemented better. DX12 in fortnite runs the GPU at 95% for example while DX11 performance mode drops its down to 50%. Anyway I stuck to DX12 and reduced the graphic settings. Happy with it now :)
How are you able to maintain good framerate while playing on battery? When I unplug the charger the wattage skyrockets and the fps plummets.
I usually cap the watts using a program called G-Helper: th-cam.com/video/-UPfsmZxLss/w-d-xo.html. I use 17 watts when unplugged then adjust the game to get the FPS I like. That way I have pretty consistent drain.
How to on/off auto tdp
They are always jumping around -1or2
Thats handheld companion though. I use something else that works like solid 40 just like on the video plus on lower tdp without any issue at all
That's what I use as well. RTSS to cap the FPS and just set a keyboard hotkey (since I'm usually around my bluetooth keyboard). It works great :)
What do you use?
Is there a video about using auto tdp setup?
There are a few on TH-cam. You can just set the FPS you want and it pulls wattage down to save a lot of power. However, you get the major slow downs that you're seeing. I made this because there is a video recommending people keep CPU Boost ON and use Auto TDP, which is a terrible solution and a lot worse than just turning boost off and using just an FPS cap.
Doesn't this conflict with AC and can create registry issues? Seems some are trying to use both together and is problematic. Likewise can be problematic uninstalling AC, since AC is more than just this type of function for the device.
I don't recommend using Auto TDP. I don't know what all it's doing in the background to be able to bring the CPU down to the levels it does. I'm sure someone with developer knowledge might know. It's why I don't recommend people mess with it unless they like tinkering.
just wondering, have you tried comparing autotdp from ciphray?
Hey, I have not compared it. I did try that out a while back, but wasn't a fan of the interface.
@@filt3rless I see
My one works like yours 40 40 40 on autotdp but I’m not on handheld companion
You're using the x86 version? I might have to give that a shot if you're getting much more stable FPS :)
Did you try auto TDP with boost enabled?
Yes, all the Auto TDP tests are with Boost On.
How can you show that fps benchmark?
The charts you're seeing I custom made in a program called Riva Tuner.
O didn’t understood. How do you let it all 40?
Hey, the FPS are capped using a program called RTSS. I don't have a tutorial out on it yet, for this I was just showing an app called "Handheld Companion", but I don't think most people should download it. Right now it's still in somewhat early stages with bugs here and there.
@@filt3rless I now how to use rtss, tnks!
Lol I think it works well. Depends on the game.
You have to understand auto tdp prioritizes battery life. No matter the approach. It doesnt know the next scene is going to have a 3 cars as opposed to an empty desert, so it will tend to undeeshoot
If you want to prioritize perfect frame time, then auto tdp is not for you.
Just hope you have a power bank around you!
Well going from 40FPS 1% lows into the 20's is definitely not the experience I paid for. I get battery life, but at a pretty heavy cost. This runs worse than the steam deck, while still being higher watts.... So I guess I'm more in the it doesn't make sense boat. Steam deck would be a much better option than Auto TDP, unless there are specific games you want to run that you can only run on windows.
@@filt3rless you are being marrow minded.
You dont need to use auto tdp all the time.
If you are at home and you have a power plug close by, plug it in, enjoy 30 watts.
If you are on a 20 hour flight to Sidney, maybe auto tdp is helpful to get you 4 to 5 hours of dead cells at 60hz.
Like I said it depends on the game and the situation.
Is it perfect? No. Are there use cases for it? Heck yeah.
In my own testing I liked auto tdp in 2d games, some emulation, farcry 5, mk 11 and other games.
It is not a magic bullet but the idea is to squeeze more battery of the hardware you already have and not carry around a freaking steam deck lol
@@filt3rlessauto tdp is more of a set and forget for people that don't care to remember to flip multiple settings on and off.
To leave it off all the time is not a good idea, as you will encounter games and experiences that require more CPU, as well new games coming out are going to EAT through the cpu. Unreal engine 5 says hello.
With features like DLSS, fsr, soon to be fsr 3 w/frame gen games are utilizing the cpu in more ways now than they ever have before.
A lot of previous work that was being put onto the GPU is now being moved off to the CPU. So being able to benefit from the bursty moments, it's definitely more useful than not.
Yes if you cap your frame rate you should have the feature turned off as it will save you battery life, typically. (Hitman 3 can lose performance, heavy cpu simulation game)
However, my experience with auto tdp has not been as detrimental as yours appears to have been. There are some moments when a big spike or call for something huge will cause a stutter, however the stutters experienced with that are no worse off than having an uncapped game playing. In my experience.
You have to remember there are a lot of people who will see these videos are people who know nothing about what you or I are talking about and just want to know the "best" settings.
So if Johnny Appleseed likes to emulate TOTK of PS3 in his spare time and sees yours(anyone's) video telling them to turn it off is the best thing since sliced bread. They will do that without any thought.
However then they get to their emulated games, or a cpu heavy game and it's running like crap, they have no idea why now.
I already had one person in my comments mention that exact scenario.
Be careful of what you tell people to do with their devices. Ensure they know all of the ins and outs of it.
@@WinDeckTech Handheld companion isn't a toggle and forget program, it just came out of Beta. Recommending that to people is not the best option IMO. One update could cause serious issues for all the people involved. I know what CPU Boost does, I've tested it for over 10 years across several devices. And I can guarantee no one is going to brick or damage their device doing it, in-fact it's just the opposite.
You should also be careful what you recommend, unless you have programming knowledge, know the developer, and have an almost guarantee nothing will go wrong for your viewers. Considering Asus themselves can't pull that off.... It seems silly to be recommending this new program as a "definitive" solution.
While you can find one game that benefits from CPU Boost, I don't think that erases the 100 that benefit from it off. Yes, emulation is where it matters, and I have a pinned comment on my CPU Boost guide telling people that. I give people information and options. Handheld companion isn't giving someone an option, it's giving them a new, untested piece of software that changes settings for them. Something I'm not willing to tell users they should go get.
Also, if you go back and look at your video. The spiderman gameplay is definitely not stable... Look at the frame time before you enable Auto TDP vs after. You might not notice it, which is fine. But other people will when playing. It's killing the 1%'s which a lot of people don't like as it feels sluggish.
@@filt3rless that's why I said in those cases if the auto tdp is detrimental to use fps cap and cpu boost off.
Not to leave cpu boost off all the time.
It's fine and well for you to have tested cpu boost for the past 10 years. No it won't break anything. But it's not the silver bullet you seem to think it is.
In certain instances. Yes it is helpful but again to say it is better is just wrong.
Wait and see when fsr 3 comes out, unreal engine 5* titles get into full swing.
CPU clocks will become ever more important. Especially with asset streaming in their shader caching process brought in with unreal engine 5.1 I believe it was.
Cpu boost off worked for the past 10 years because games have never been a multi-threaded process in the past.
Game devs were banking on CPUs getting more powerful per core.
That's why Crysis (original) can still run like crap on modern computers.
It is a heavily single threaded process hoping for the most amount of clock speed it can get.
It was only after this time (mid-late 2000's)that devs realized that cpu manufacturing was slowing down in terms of power per core. They were hoping for CPUs to be where they are now (5ghz+ on core) and that was just impossible for the time.
Logically games then started to become more multi-threaded and utilize more Corse instead of just one powerful core.
This is leading us to where we are now.
Trust me, the CPU performance will, and has become more prevalent again with the introduction of technologies like ray tracing, ai enhancements, lumen (both software and hardware accelerated) look at any major release of this year.
Do you really think cpu boost off will be beneficial in the age of ray tracing(JUST AS DEMANDING ON CPU AS GPU), upscaling and AI? Not to mention with things like direct storage (although that is more GPU storage focused)
Again, in certain instances boost off is helpful. But it's not a cure all and should NOT be left disabled all the time.
Edit: typo
How odd. Ive got an eye for things and I havent had this kind of stuttering.
If you get a chance would you be able to provide a couple of the games you didn't notice it on and the settings you used in game / Auto TDP? I'd love to test them, as every game I've tried so far is giving me slow downs.
I just installed this on my Ally. How does anyone use Auto TDP?! I’m experiencing the same rubbish as this video. Unplayable.
I'm not using this tool at them moment, and I'm not bashing, but looking at your config seems to me you are capping frames(fine) AND setting a TDP limit well below what you already know what the game needs to play at that FPS. I'd try setting the fps cap and increasing the tdp ceiling. In theory an app like this would only go up to the limit when fps was having issues.
All that said I really suspect an app like this will have a hard time doing a better job than what is built into the chips and OS.
I am capping the frames using RTSS on the Boost ON & OFF. However, I uncap them and let Auto TDP do it's thing. Auto TDP is where you "set the FPS" you want, then it caps them and tries to minimize power usage. However, as we can see it's unstable. I don't recommend using it right now, and I don't use it personally.
@@filt3rless That's my point, either cap the frames or cap the TDP. If you cap the tdp at 13W and you already know the Ally needs a sloid 20W to render 40fps, you know it can't work. Auto TDP can't work miracles. What it should be good for is if you set the TDP cap at 25W set the fps cap at 40 then it should only use 8W when it doesn't need to be using 25W. I'm going to be installing HC today more to play with gyro, but will do some testing on TDP.
@@gottahavitvt Hey, that's what Auto TDP does, which is what I'm covering in the video. There is no watts and/or FPS cap, Auto TDP only has an FPS cap you set, then it pulls watts down to match that. Everything else is uncapped, that's the issue with using the "Auto TDP" part of HC. Setting a watt cap or an FPS cap is definitely better options and HC also has both of those features as well. But Auto TDP is different, and automatically does it based on an FPS you set.
with 4 30k mh 100W powerbanks i just use 25w mode. red dead is running 60 fps stable with ultra after optimization settings
That's what I use as well. 25W is the perfect amount IMO, and 18W works really well unplugged, just a slight performance hit.
same...plus I enjoy the liberty of play in any room in my home while streaming from my pc...120fps 7w tdp full glory...Asus Rog Ally is a nice piece of kit for any gamer. I enjoyed handheld companion better on my steamdeck windows dual boot but I Uninstaled it from my Ally since I felt it was redundant and slightly more glitchy than armory crate.