There's a couple things that could be causing this Possible lift cover settings preventing the tractor from going into constant pump. Tired release valve on the pump Chambers in the pump could be worn
Hello , I can,t read the other language'd comments on here , but from my own experience with a much smaller M - F tractor , check these items out ; the steel stack pipe running vertically from the top right side of the pump to the diverter valve on the hydraulic lid MUST be a good tight fit , lightly tapped in with a soft plastic or hide faced mallet , if you can push it in by hand it is simply too loose , & will leak pressurised oil away back to the hydraulic pump / back axle housing . Correct sized O ring & kin ring kits are/were marketed by M - F (Agco ) to solve this very problem , the o - ring alone will not seal the joint between stack pipe & pump or stack pipe & top diverter valve , fit the nylon kin ring in behind the o - rings so that the o - rings lead into the relevant holes , you may have to resort to trimming the kin rings a bit to get the rings in at all behind the O rings , but proceed carefully , also , it looks to me as if the control valve linkage to the scotch - yoke pump is either not travelling fully as it should , or that the valve itself is sticking in the control valve bore at a certain point , either of these problems mean removing the top hydraulic lid & investigating . Do not be tempted to readjust the settings on any of the levers , rollers & springs contained inside up under the lid or anywhere else . A broken component will be clearly visible i.e. snapped spring or valve pushrod . The through - bolts right through the scotch - yoke pump can also work loose & blow the sealing O - rings out , that looks a bit like this ! Sorry but this is my best impression . I have no knowledge of working on Multi - power transmissions , please contact either local M - F people or Friends Of Ferguson Heritage here in England , you might also try Bundy Bear's Shed in I believe , New Zealand , here on youtube ! Good Luck & happy spanners .
Hello again , I,ve had chance to think about this , & try my thoughts out on my own m - f tractor , how long is it since you removed the top link double acting spring assembly , & freed it off , serviced it & reset it ? , these fill up with rainwater ( or ice ! ) and rust up & seize up quite badly . If the rubber boot on the outside of the back of the casting is kept good , & a little oil squirted down past the boot once a month then this is greatly reduced . A special spanner is needed to get the outer nut out , once the top link bracket is removed , & a small grubscrew in the side of the main top link casting to be unscrewed back off of the thread on the special nut . It,s not a bad idea to dot punch the nut & casting , then count the number of turns out , for reference . The main point I wish to make is that when using the tractor , if you lift something heavy on the back linkage then you will pull the top link spring out a small distance , if it is partially seized it may not spring back in again to re - centre the control linkage to the pump control valve that it is pinned to , a small hardened steel pin reflects the movement on the double acting top link spring assembly to this control linkage , you cannot see it until you either have the double acting spring out , or have the hydraulic lid off & inverted . With the control linkage pulled back like this the pump oil control valve cannot get to allow much oil into the pump at all !. This may be all that is wrong , I would definitely check it out before removing the hydraulic lid . Be careful getting the special nut out , it may be rusted in quite hard . On refitting , from what I can remember , you slowly tighten the special nut until a state of equidistant minimal free play exists on the centre rod through the double - acting top link spring/rod assembly , then lock it with the grubscrew. At this I,m currently out of knowledge , so best regards & happy spanners .
Ferkusta tulee 200 baaria jos pumppu kunnos, litra tuotto on tietenkin pieni nykyaikaisiin verrattuna, mut tuo kuormain pitäis heilahtamalla nousta ylös...
Have you ever found what the problem was? I’m having similar issues. Please let us know what you ended up doing to fix this problem. Also if anyone else experienced the same problem what was your fix? Thanks
Se on yksi vaihtoehto, tosin epämiellyttävin. MF keskustelupalstoilla syysksi oletetaan myös imusuodattimen tukkeustumista ja ylipaineventtiilin vuotoa. Pitää nyt ensin poistaa ne vaihtoehdot ennen pumpun vaihtoa. Uusi tarvikepumppu n. 400 ekeä, sekin vaihdetaan jos mikään muu ei onnistu. Tosi paljon kiitoksia mielenkiinnostasi!
When that valve or the original cover that is in the same place is being removed be carefull that the stand pipe is located in the pump at the bottom or the seal and or the tube will be damaged. If the tractor has pressure control the pipe will not come out because it is linked to another pipe inside the hydraulic case. The standard none pressure control pipe will lift out. If the pipe comes out of the pump the best way to locate it back in the pump is to take off the side plate where the dip stick is drain off some oil so the oil level is below the top of the pump shine a light inside the case and look down the hole where the tube comes out you can see the bottom of the pipe and the hole. Place a screwdriver down the centre of the pipe to use a lever and locate the pipe back in the pump and give it a good push. You can sometimes do this without removing the side plate just be feel. If the pipe is damaged and its pressure control with top cover will have to come off to fix it. Good luck
derek you seem to know what your talking about.i have a mf165 with slow hydraulics even with that lever all the way to fast its still slow...could it be this hydraulic valve needs replacing on mine(or maybe just change the fluid?) the power steering is also bad(i think its part of the same system) any help would be greatly appreciated
Hello I will try to help but I am working from memory, its 40 years ago since I worked at the MF dealership so here goes. First when you say (that valve) do you mean a valve like they are working on on this video or the hydraulic levers on the right hand side of the seat. When you say the hydraulics are slow do you mean the lift arms are slow to lift or are you lifting say a tipping trailer with the auxiliary valve. Either way first close the aux valve ( the one they are working on here) and just lift the lift arms at the back without any load on by moving the POSITION control hydraulic lever to constant pumping, the lift arms should go to the fully up position and you should hear the hydraulic relive valve crack open the arms should move from lower to fully up in 4 or 5 seconds dependant on engine speed. If this happens and you hear the relive valve open just over engine tick over and you hear the engine revs drop the likelihood the hydraulic pump is ok. Let me know what happens and we can take it further. There is no point going any further until we know what happens or it will get to complicated to follow. Its very unlikely that changing the oil will have any effect with your problem. MF sold tractor all over the world and they were not all built to the same spec but all the 165s I have worked on the power steering was a completely different hydraulic system to the lift the pump was on the side of the engine near the timing case. From memory there were two types of power steering a full power steering with a danfoss hand pump these very rarely give any problems make sure there is oil in the pump tank on the side of the engine. However the early type was a power assisted system only. At the front engine radiator is the hydraulic ram and control valve. This dose give problems. There is a tapered adjustment screw which allows a small amount of movement in the steering to work the hydraulic spool valve. If you have this type wriggle the steering wheel with the engine off and you should be able to see the play in the steering this adjustment is critical. Check the bushes in the main steering pin top and bottom if there is any play in these bushes the power steering will not work. Let me know Regards Derek
hi derek thanks for the advise. the first valve i was talking about is by my right foot/where you check the hydraulic fluid level(there is a slow/fast setting and i have it almost to the fast side) the front loader is what is slow to go up or down / the rear 3ph lift arms move normal. that auxilliary valve i have to play with and sometimes the ft loader does move faster( at least now i know what that valve is...i'm new to this stuff, learning as i go) as for the power steering/power assisted steering could a simple grease nipple that has broken off under the front steering meckanism be lacking grease and makes it hard to steer?if not i seen a vid on youtube about the adjustment to the hydraulic ram so thanks for mentioning it i will investigate further. ty so much for responding, very nice of you. if you live near orillia ont. or are ever in the area i would like to buy you a beer. cheers
hello first the fast / slow control has nothing to do with the speed of the lift its to control and dampen the speed of the hydraulic response to prevent the hydraulics overcorrecting so forget this. If the 3 point linkage and the relief valve is working ok then the pump is ok. What method are you using to lift the front end loader? Are you using the hydraulic levers on the right side of the seat or an aux spool valve attached to the loader? Have you got one of these diverter valves like in this video? Dose the 3 point linkage move when you are using the loader? It is important that the 3 point linkage dose NOT go up and down when you are working the loader or it will slow the loader down or not work at all. If the 3 point linkage is going up and down when the loader is being used you must lock the 3 point linkage to stop it working. There are stabilisers that do this they lock the arms just short of full lift. The position control hydraulic lever on the right must to set in constant pumping, if you are using the levers on the right to raise and lower the loader use the DRAFT control lever to lift and lower. On the draft control lever you will find two scribed lines about half way up the range, if you put the draft control lever in this position this is the neutral position for the hydraulics, moving the lever slightly up and down from this position to lift and lower the loader. There should be a round wheel adjusting knob near this lever that you can undo and reset set so its easy to find the neutral position. If you are using an aux spool valve fitted on the loader to lift and lower the loader just ignore the draft lever and use the spool valve. I cant stress how important it is to lock the 3 point linkage in a mid point and put the lever in constant pumping because as the linkage lifts to the top it will place the hydraulics into a neutral setting and stop lifting. Its all done automatically inside the hydraulic case. The MF hydraulics work completely different to say a digger of fork lift truck. They are a low output high pressure system.The pump although its working all the time the engine is running its not pumping oil all the time it only pumps when its demanded by the settings. Its quite complicated bit very reliable. I hope I am remembering all this right. I have seen a video on the steering if its the same one you will see the tapered adjusting screw. This is the one that's critical. However if there is wear in the top and bottom bushes the movement in the bushes fools the spool valve and it either doesn't work or doesn't work very well. Its a cow of a job to replace these bushes they have to be pressed in and reamed out. Its unlikely the broken grease nipple would be a problem. I am about as far from you that is possible I am in the UK a place called Wigan good luck Regards Derek
further to my last reply If you are using the draft lever to control the front loader I said that the position control lever must be in constant pumping, I think I might be wrong. I think the position lever might have to be in the lower / down position. My brain hurts trying to remember. Also I am presupposing you tractor has pressure control hydraulics. Derek
Oh you guys drive me NUTS! - just HAD to join in LOL !!! I have been driving Masseys for 60 yrs . NO! IMHO leave the top link parts alone! Read the INSTRUCTION BOOK - many can even be found on line FREE. One Massey is like any other , basically. I did not see how the Linkage and Loader was controlled. Probably NOT CORRECTLY - Doubt if the Loader was properly "Plumbed in" wrong connections, wrong place, etc. NOw if my Memory serves me , when it's a Multi-Power, one can fit a COMBINING VALVE - at the same place as this valve is. THE LOADER would FLY. Pressure Max 2500 psi; Linkage pump can not be combined so Pressure at TIPPING PIPE connection should be as much as 3000psi ( 2500 or 2000?? ) on earlier models ie 165 Mk1. If your Gearbox OIL is not milky white and SLUDGY you should be OK. These tractors have great gearboxes - run so freely - that they don't run hot to "boil off" condensed water. They stay cold and Fungus hasn't been a problem in my experience with them, here in UK. By the way, it looks like the Top Cover has been removed, WHY? Seems some folk don't understand the difference between Position, Draft & Pressure control + Response settings. Hope you've got is sorted by now , though! good to see a tidy 165 still on the go.
Can you please tell me how to get to the hydraulic filter on my 1964 Massey Ferguson MF 165 I am in desperate need to figure out what I need to do to lift the 3 point hitch up I am assuming this is the problem by watching this video and can you please tell me how to adjust my valve cylinder steering that is located in the front of my tractor I have took it off and clean it all out and put it back together there was garbage in it's and now is clean but still I have to adjust it to where the fluid will push cylinder out in time when I am turning thank you
There's a couple things that could be causing this
Possible lift cover settings preventing the tractor from going into constant pump.
Tired release valve on the pump
Chambers in the pump could be worn
Hello , I can,t read the other language'd comments on here , but from my own experience with a much smaller M - F tractor , check these items out ; the steel stack pipe running vertically from the top right side of the pump to the diverter valve on the hydraulic lid MUST be a good tight fit , lightly tapped in with a soft plastic or hide faced mallet , if you can push it in by hand it is simply too loose , & will leak pressurised oil away back to the hydraulic pump / back axle housing . Correct sized O ring & kin ring kits are/were marketed by M - F (Agco ) to solve this very problem , the o - ring alone will not seal the joint between stack pipe & pump or stack pipe & top diverter valve , fit the nylon kin ring in behind the o - rings so that the o - rings lead into the relevant holes , you may have to resort to trimming the kin rings a bit to get the rings in at all behind the O rings , but proceed carefully , also , it looks to me as if the control valve linkage to the scotch - yoke pump is either not travelling fully as it should , or that the valve itself is sticking in the control valve bore at a certain point , either of these problems mean removing the top hydraulic lid & investigating . Do not be tempted to readjust the settings on any of the levers , rollers & springs contained inside up under the lid or anywhere else . A broken component will be clearly visible i.e. snapped spring or valve pushrod . The through - bolts right through the scotch - yoke pump can also work loose & blow the sealing O - rings out , that looks a bit like this ! Sorry but this is my best impression . I have no knowledge of working on Multi - power transmissions , please contact either local M - F people or Friends Of Ferguson Heritage here in England , you might also try Bundy Bear's Shed in I believe , New Zealand , here on youtube ! Good Luck & happy spanners .
Phillip Cleaver bundy bears shed is in Australia
Hello again , I,ve had chance to think about this , & try my thoughts out on my own m - f tractor , how long is it since you removed the top link double acting spring assembly , & freed it off , serviced it & reset it ? , these fill up with rainwater ( or ice ! ) and rust up & seize up quite badly . If the rubber boot on the outside of the back of the casting is kept good , & a little oil squirted down past the boot once a month then this is greatly reduced .
A special spanner is needed to get the outer nut out , once the top link bracket is removed , & a small grubscrew in the side of the main top link casting to be unscrewed back off of the thread on the special nut . It,s not a bad idea to dot punch the nut & casting , then count the number of turns out , for reference .
The main point I wish to make is that when using the tractor , if you lift something heavy on the back linkage then you will pull the top link spring out a small distance , if it is partially seized it may not spring back in again to re - centre the control linkage to the pump control valve that it is pinned to , a small hardened steel pin reflects the movement on the double acting top link spring assembly to this control linkage , you cannot see it until you either have the double acting spring out , or have the hydraulic lid off & inverted . With the control linkage pulled back like this the pump oil control valve cannot get to allow much oil into the pump at all !.
This may be all that is wrong , I would definitely check it out before removing the hydraulic lid . Be careful getting the special nut out , it may be rusted in quite hard . On refitting , from what I can remember , you slowly tighten the special nut until a state of equidistant minimal free play exists on the centre rod through the double - acting top link spring/rod assembly , then lock it with the grubscrew. At this I,m currently out of knowledge , so best regards & happy spanners .
Man who’s film needs Oxygen
Kyllä muuten nostaisi mutta pumppu on tullut tiensä päähän ei ihme.. muuta kuin uus pumppu niin sillä hoidettu tai vaihtaa oo renkaat siitä
Ferkusta tulee 200 baaria jos pumppu kunnos, litra tuotto on tietenkin pieni nykyaikaisiin verrattuna, mut tuo kuormain pitäis heilahtamalla nousta ylös...
Have you ever found what the problem was? I’m having similar issues. Please let us know what you ended up doing to fix this problem. Also if anyone else experienced the same problem what was your fix? Thanks
Problem was dirty hydraulic filter. Changing was difficult. It located very difficult place.
@@raunoviitanen4611 i have MF165 tractor with same problem, do you know where place the filter is locate? thanks
Op
Wer schnauft denn da so fest.
olisiko hydraalliikkapumppu niin väljäksi mennyt
Se on yksi vaihtoehto, tosin epämiellyttävin. MF keskustelupalstoilla syysksi oletetaan myös imusuodattimen tukkeustumista ja ylipaineventtiilin vuotoa. Pitää nyt ensin poistaa ne vaihtoehdot ennen pumpun vaihtoa. Uusi tarvikepumppu n. 400 ekeä, sekin vaihdetaan jos mikään muu ei onnistu. Tosi paljon kiitoksia mielenkiinnostasi!
why cant you butchers no work with spanners
When that valve or the original cover that is in the same place is being removed be carefull that the stand pipe is located in the pump at the bottom or the seal and or the tube will be damaged. If the tractor has pressure control the pipe will not come out because it is linked to another pipe inside the hydraulic case. The standard none pressure control pipe will lift out. If the pipe comes out of the pump the best way to locate it back in the pump is to take off the side plate where the dip stick is drain off some oil so the oil level is below the top of the pump shine a light inside the case and look down the hole where the tube comes out you can see the bottom of the pipe and the hole. Place a screwdriver down the centre of the pipe to use a lever and locate the pipe back in the pump and give it a good push. You can sometimes do this without removing the side plate just be feel.
If the pipe is damaged and its pressure control with top cover will have to come off to fix it.
Good luck
derek you seem to know what your talking about.i have a mf165 with slow hydraulics even with that lever all the way to fast its still slow...could it be this hydraulic valve needs replacing on mine(or maybe just change the fluid?) the power steering is also bad(i think its part of the same system)
any help would be greatly appreciated
Hello
I will try to help but I am working from memory, its 40 years ago since I worked at the MF dealership so here goes.
First when you say (that valve) do you mean a valve like they are working on on this video or the hydraulic levers on the right hand side of the seat.
When you say the hydraulics are slow do you mean the lift arms are slow to lift or are you lifting say a tipping trailer with the auxiliary valve.
Either way first close the aux valve ( the one they are working on here) and just lift the lift arms at the back without any load on by moving the POSITION control hydraulic lever to constant pumping, the lift arms should go to the fully up position and you should hear the hydraulic relive valve crack open the arms should move from lower to fully up in 4 or 5 seconds dependant on engine speed.
If this happens and you hear the relive valve open just over engine tick over and you hear the engine revs drop the likelihood the hydraulic pump is ok.
Let me know what happens and we can take it further.
There is no point going any further until we know what happens or it will get to complicated to follow.
Its very unlikely that changing the oil will have any effect with your problem.
MF sold tractor all over the world and they were not all built to the same spec but all the 165s I have worked on the power steering was a completely different hydraulic system to the lift the pump was on the side of the engine near the timing case.
From memory there were two types of power steering a full power steering with a danfoss hand pump these very rarely give any problems make sure there is oil in the pump tank on the side of the engine.
However the early type was a power assisted system only. At the front engine radiator is the hydraulic ram and control valve. This dose give problems. There is a tapered adjustment screw which allows a small amount of movement in the steering to work the hydraulic spool valve.
If you have this type wriggle the steering wheel with the engine off and you should be able to see the play in the steering this adjustment is critical. Check the bushes in the main steering pin top and bottom if there is any play in these bushes the power steering will not work.
Let me know
Regards Derek
hi derek thanks for the advise. the first valve i was talking about is by my right foot/where you check the hydraulic fluid level(there is a slow/fast setting and i have it almost to the fast side) the front loader is what is slow to go up or down / the rear 3ph lift arms move normal. that auxilliary valve i have to play with and sometimes the ft loader does move faster( at least now i know what that valve is...i'm new to this stuff, learning as i go) as for the power steering/power assisted steering could a simple grease nipple that has broken off under the front steering meckanism be lacking grease and makes it hard to steer?if not i seen a vid on youtube about the adjustment to the hydraulic ram so thanks for mentioning it i will investigate further. ty so much for responding, very nice of you. if you live near orillia ont. or are ever in the area i would like to buy you a beer. cheers
hello
first the fast / slow control has nothing to do with the speed of the lift its to control and dampen the speed of the hydraulic response to prevent the hydraulics overcorrecting so forget this.
If the 3 point linkage and the relief valve is working ok then the pump is ok.
What method are you using to lift the front end loader?
Are you using the hydraulic levers on the right side of the seat or an aux spool valve attached to the loader?
Have you got one of these diverter valves like in this video?
Dose the 3 point linkage move when you are using the loader?
It is important that the 3 point linkage dose NOT go up and down when you are working the loader or it will slow the loader down or not work at all.
If the 3 point linkage is going up and down when the loader is being used you must lock the 3 point linkage to stop it working. There are stabilisers that do this they lock the arms just short of full lift.
The position control hydraulic lever on the right must to set in constant pumping, if you are using the levers on the right to raise and lower the loader use the DRAFT control lever to lift and lower. On the draft control lever you will find two scribed lines about half way up the range, if you put the draft control lever in this position this is the neutral position for the hydraulics, moving the lever slightly up and down from this position to lift and lower the loader. There should be a round wheel adjusting knob near this lever that you can undo and reset set so its easy to find the neutral position.
If you are using an aux spool valve fitted on the loader to lift and lower the loader just ignore the draft lever and use the spool valve.
I cant stress how important it is to lock the 3 point linkage in a mid point and put the lever in constant pumping because as the linkage lifts to the top it will place the hydraulics into a neutral setting and stop lifting. Its all done automatically inside the hydraulic case.
The MF hydraulics work completely different to say a digger of fork lift truck. They are a low output high pressure system.The pump although its working all the time the engine is running its not pumping oil all the time it only pumps when its demanded by the settings. Its quite complicated bit very reliable.
I hope I am remembering all this right.
I have seen a video on the steering if its the same one you will see the tapered adjusting screw. This is the one that's critical. However if there is wear in the top and bottom bushes the movement in the bushes fools the spool valve and it either doesn't work or doesn't work very well. Its a cow of a job to replace these bushes they have to be pressed in and reamed out.
Its unlikely the broken grease nipple would be a problem.
I am about as far from you that is possible I am in the UK a place called Wigan
good luck
Regards Derek
further to my last reply
If you are using the draft lever to control the front loader I said that the position control lever must be in constant pumping, I think I might be wrong. I think the position lever might have to be in the lower / down position. My brain hurts trying to remember.
Also I am presupposing you tractor has pressure control hydraulics.
Derek
I had the same problem in my MF 165 this year. I though it' s a bad condition of hydraulic pump. Furtunately it was a old oil in a gear box ;)
OK, interesting when a small thing can make a big problem!
"turns" 8.00 tarkoitat varmaan koneenkierrokset eli revs
Hi have you removed oil filter on the pump inside
Yes i haw.
Oh you guys drive me NUTS! - just HAD to join in LOL !!! I have been driving Masseys for 60 yrs . NO! IMHO leave the top link parts alone! Read the INSTRUCTION BOOK - many can even be found on line FREE. One Massey is like any other , basically. I did not see how the Linkage and Loader was controlled. Probably NOT CORRECTLY - Doubt if the Loader was properly "Plumbed in" wrong connections, wrong place, etc. NOw if my Memory serves me , when it's a Multi-Power, one can fit a COMBINING VALVE - at the same place as this valve is. THE LOADER would FLY. Pressure Max 2500 psi; Linkage pump can not be combined so Pressure at TIPPING PIPE connection should be as much as 3000psi ( 2500 or 2000?? ) on earlier models ie 165 Mk1. If your Gearbox OIL is not milky white and SLUDGY you should be OK. These tractors have great gearboxes - run so freely - that they don't run hot to "boil off" condensed water. They stay cold and Fungus hasn't been a problem in my experience with them, here in UK. By the way, it looks like the Top Cover has been removed, WHY?
Seems some folk don't understand the difference between Position, Draft & Pressure control + Response settings. Hope you've got is sorted by now , though! good to see a tidy 165 still on the go.
Can you please tell me how to get to the hydraulic filter on my 1964 Massey Ferguson MF 165 I am in desperate need to figure out what I need to do to lift the 3 point hitch up I am assuming this is the problem by watching this video and can you please tell me how to adjust my valve cylinder steering that is located in the front of my tractor I have took it off and clean it all out and put it back together there was garbage in it's and now is clean but still I have to adjust it to where the fluid will push cylinder out in time when I am turning thank you