I hope you enjoyed the video! If you don't know, I run a discord server where we chat about writing our own stories plus our general love for good movies and games. You're more than welcome to join our community by clicking this link: discord.com/invite/aJpYPQX Looking forward to seeing you there! - Henry
I would be surprised if you aren't familiar with Jordan Peterson's Maps of Meaning. The ideas in this video are the same as some from his 2017 lecture series, but presented in a more entertaining way. If you aren't familiar with the Maps of Meaning, I can only conclude that you are very well read in subjects from mythology to Jungian psychology.
@@lonjohnson5161 I haven't checked out maps of meaning yet. it does look interesting, but I just kind of watched a ton of youtube videos on the topic and learnt from those.
I just want to say that I enjoy your positive videos a lot more than your more “ranty” ones. I find it more interesting (and better for my soul) to hear about things that you like and that inspire you, instead of more negative videos. So cheers to you, I hope you keep it up!
@@lonjohnson5161 I'm gonna be honest... I gave it a look and found Jordan Peterson's argument to be an incoherent mess soaked in quasi-mysticism and rather little being said in quite a lot of flowery language about dragons. As someone who actually has extensively studied philosophy, sociology, mythology, and literature, I found it remarkably unimpressive.
They did it. They managed to write an ending more depressing than Infinity War’s. To clarify, as soon as we recovered from the shell shock of that ending, we understood that “they’re gonna come back, right?” There was an expectation that this disastrous outcome will be undone. No Way Home doesn’t establish that. It sets a new permanent status quo for the character. No one knows who Peter is and he has to live with that for the foreseeable future. Dude is alone in the universe.
That's interesting, my own interpretation of the ending was much more optimistic - after the scene with MJ in the café, I just thought Peter decided this was the wrong time to make his move. He realises he's a complete stranger to her now, and overloading her with his whole story at their first meeting would have scared her and put her off. So he puts away his paper and walks out. In my mind, there's no reason for him to assume she would be happier without him - particularly since she made him promise to come and find her after Strange's spell erased her mind. But if he is going to rebuild his relationship to MJ, he's going to have to do it gradually - and to me, his realisation in the end isn't that he has to let MJ go, but that he has to take his time.
@@thesardonicpig3835 Considering that her clothes changed and she doesn't know why but she put on the necklace Peter gave her...I agree that he is probably just going to take his time(also indicative of his growth as a person)....because if he does come back into her life, it looks like he will be able to rekindle the fire
@@thesardonicpig3835 New Rockstars pointed out that MJ is still wearing the Black Dahlia necklace in the end. That may be why Peter decided to wait, as it’s a sign that even though her memory of him is gone, some part of her deep down still loves him. This would corroborate your interpretation and my hope for the next movies, when I hope Peter will eventually reach out and get Ned and MJ back in his life, them being the last remnants of his former life. Even though NWH technically has way lower stakes than IW, it hit me more on a “it’d SUCK to be Peter” level. It’s tragic on a more human, personal level, whereas it’s really hard to imagine living in a world with 50% the usual number of people.
A common misconception when writing magic is that you can do whatever because magic has no rules. But the magic in virtually every well-written series is defined by its rules that maintain immersion. The moment you break an established rule with the excuse of 'because magic' you will have broken the audience's immersion
@@ChibsterofNurgy there really isn't any, it's just relatively consistent. Harry Plopper is a world suffused with magic, so most anything seems possible. When someone says certain words, a certain action occurs with magic. Fairly mundane, but there are plenty of other "magical" happenings in the series that don't use words. LOTR is also fairly freeform. Gandalf can't just disintegrate saulron with a word or blow an army off of a cliff, but he can do inhuman things. He feels grounded and has limits, unlike a character like Tom Bombadil. Tom seems to be able to do anything, but I don't really mind because he was shown to be more of a primordial force. LOTR is good because it has a great story and the magic is not overwhelmin, it just adds spice to the story. It's more that the magic isn't over the top and it doesn't solve every single problem. There are more "limits" to the magic rather than established "rules". I tend to disagree with OP's opinion on "good" magic. Rules are secondary and less important than the consistency and the fantastical nature of magic. Avatar: The Last Airbender is a good example of that for me. Before The Legend of Korra came out, the magic was an unexplained, innate part of the world and some people. It was fantastical and consistent, it was special. Then TLoK came out and explained every aspect of the universe and turned it into something so boring to me.
Magic only needs rules if it is used to affect the plot. Like think of a Gjubli movie like House Moving Castle, all the magic importen to the plot is told/shown while everything else is left opent ended
Also another thing that people need to understand. Let’s say we got novices in magic they know the bare minimum. Say something like this I never knew you could do that with magic. And something gets done without their knowledge. I don’t see that as a bad thing as long as it’s explained. What if it’s not there comes the bad thing. We get that a lot of people saying that’s all Retcon. Even when they have the explanation. Also if those novices become masters. Because you always have people that do things better than you or no more than you because they live longer especially in stories. Basically just has to fit into the world and has an explanation.
@@KamiAnimeS1 A big part of the problem is when someone just happens to learn something at a particular point in time to solve their problem or when it’s so far detached from the limits of the magic system shown thus far. It doesn’t feel right if it just comes out of left field to solve the main character’s problem. At least with the Phoenix you see it before hand and the Phoenix is a popular icon in a lot of fiction and the concept of a Phoenix healing someone isn’t exactly new. It doesn’t feel like it was invented for the sake of the protagonist and the world doesn’t revolve around them.
Just wanna point out that the phoenix in Chamber of Secrets wasn’t a Deus Ex Machina. A Deus Ex Machina is something that comes out of nowhere with no previous mention or explanation that solves the main problem or all problems in the story. Since the phoenix was shown and mentioned, with its abilities being explained early on (the tears healing powers), it is instead a form of Chekhov’s Gun. Where in a story if a gun is mentioned early on, at some point, that gun must be used in some way. Otherwise you’d just be wasting the readers time explaining this gun to them.
@@TheCloserLook It’s all good, just felt like popping up and saying it so the mistake doesn’t get repeated. I love watching your and many other TH-camrs analysis and breakdown videos to help further my knowledge of storytelling. So make no mistake, you have taught me so much more than I could hope to give back in a single comment, thank you
I kind of feel like you're both sort of right. It may technically be a Chekhov's Gun, but it also *feels* Deus ex Machina'y because Fawkes just shows up out of nowhere, with no indication that Dumbledore knew what was going on, or Harry ever requesting its help.
@@knightsabre7 I agree with you, it van be viewed as deus ex machina, but Dumbledore really hammer it up during their conversation that phoenix are extremely loyal and if Harry needs help Fawkes would help him. At least in the books the whole stuff is well foreshadowed, but I can see the likes of Cinema Sins "ding" it as Deux Ex Machina.
Well, the phoenix might not be a Deus Ex Machina in and of itself, but him appearing out of nowhere to save the day is, as nothing explains beforehand why he could have been here. In fact in a sense it is very close to the origin of the word because, if I remember correctly, it comes from ancient Greece where they would use machines to make an actor appear out of nowhere, as the phoenix did
23:33 "The fact fantasy can allow itself to be so detatched from reality, allows it to scrutinize our reality with a level of exactness that a non-fantasy writer would envy." Very well-said.
I’ve always loved magic systems. In a story I’m working on, magic is harnessing the power of gods and other spirits for your own purposes. If you wish to learn minor, harmless spells, go ahead, anyone can do it with enough practice. But if you want to become truly skilled in magic, you must combine this magical essence with part of your soul, essentially passing on ownership of your soul-fragment to whatever god controls the magic you’re learning. To become more skilled, you must give up more and more of your soul until there’s nothing left to give, and the gods have absolute ownership of you forever. This makes for a nifty allegory for sacrifice and consequences, and also serves as a convenient explanation for why not everyone is an all-powerful wizard, it’s rarely worth it.
You should look into The Poppy War's magic system ! It's basically what you're working on, minus the part where everyone can use basic magic (well... Technically they can, but arcane knowledge has been hidden from the general population because it's too dangerous if left unchecked) In this world Shamans can call upon the power of gods and let them use their soul and body as a vessel. Keeping control is extremely hard, and the power itself is rarely worth the destruction it can bring if the god decides to let loose. And of course, each god has its personnality.
You could do something quite interesting here: due to this search for ultimate magical power resulting in an inevitable servitude, rather than having the villain be the one seizing godly magical power, have it be the hero seizing it to stop the villain, and treat it as a sacrifice. Hero's freedom for the greater good. I think it'd be cool at least
The version of the story of Midas you tell here is a later version in the original version he doesn't turn his daughter to gold, and Dionysus didn't simply turn it back when Midas showed regret for his wish, he led him to a river and told him to bathe in it so that the water would wash his gift away.
@@oscarstandidge7917 donkey ears and it's because he's being rude to Apollo, saying Pan won a music competition against Apollo when everyone (including Pan) agrees Apollo was the better musician
@@tiagocidraes2390 he wasn't even being rude he basically just went "nah there's no way pan lost that," and then apollo was like "oh you must have donkey ears" and bc apollo's a god boom he got donkey ears
This put into words something I couldn't explain for years. I've been writing stories since I was a kid, and sci-fi and fantasy are by far my favorite genres in writing, which is exactly what my current story is based around. I didn't realize that I was doing this until I saw the video all the way through, but I'm looking back at the story that I've made so far and I'm realizing that I did exactly this. The story I'm working on covers a "truth" surrounding trauma and mental demons, and I'm realizing that the magic I have set here reflects that much more clearly than it would have other wise. The collective unconsciousness is stronger than I thought it was.
I believe Full Metal Alchemist pulls it off in a great way. When the magic of alchemy has an unbreakable rule - equivalent exchange. You cannot pull something out of thin air, it has to come from something. You can't conjure a stone spear, you must have stone to transform it into a desired shape. The most brutal example of this rule was when the main heroes wanted to use alchemy to revive a dead person. The spell consumed their flesh, ridding one of a leg and arm, while the other lost his entire body and had his soul transferred to a set of armor to survive. Magic. Has. Rules.
Peter trying to rebuild his life from scratch might just be one of the most difficult things these characters could possibly overcome in their lifes. I only wonder whether the spell that erases people’s memory of him also erases every shred of physical and/or virtual document that proves his existence
15:27, it’s not actually a Deus Ex Machina, Dumbledore revealed earlier on that that Fawkes’s tears had healing powers so Chekhov’s Gun would require them to be used at a later point in the story
I love that you got me to think about why I remember the king Midas story so well when I hear other stories every day. After all king Midas isn’t really a great story. It’s really fairly bland. Yet we remember it because of the underlying truths behind the story. In other words the “foundation” that the story stands upon is memorable. Bringing it to stories today, I suppose that is why a movie like morbius is currently getting so much flack. It has no message. It’s clearly only trying to help set up a spider-verse for profit, but has no lasting message. Compare that to iron-man 1 which set off the mcu. The message of the movie is responsibility, and change. Tony took responsibility for his weapons getting in the wrong hands, but he starts the journey to fix his wrongs and change as a person. From there the mcu could be born because the underlying message of its flagship film was strongly connected to a powerful message.
@@plzletmebefrank yes that was what I was saying. The more connected to truths that humans identify with the stronger it will be. It also has to be well told. Think the Iliad, or don quixote. Their strength lies in their message. It’s also well told. Compare to a blockbuster with explosions, like pacific rim. There’s a reason some are remembered, and others are a summer flick.
@@SirToaster9330 For Joker, while that may be one way to interpret it, his smarts to me were just a means to his end. The Joker describes himself as 'an agent of chaos', but chaos can just mean a bunch of drunk night club parties with the occasional fight (as stereotypical as that may sound). I saw the Joker as essentially the representation of what it would look like if someone were to, within human and real world limitations, find the most bombastic ways to destroy any sense of order as wide as possible. Rob a bank, take down mobs, kill a few, threaten an actually well-received political candidate, put the police on a wild goose chase... all the while having no motive anyone can trace to you. And the films' sole intent was to portray how a civilisation would react to their own destruction by a force no real life power could really control, except by refusing its terms after finally understanding the contract.
Mistborn is definitely one of my favourite series ever... And the follow-up, the Wax and Wayne series, is almost as good, and maybe even more enjoyable
I loved the Stormlight Archive by him. It got me through months of a really mind-numbing job just listening to that book series everyday, and I only got like halfway through it.
You’ve single-handedly given me a greater appreciation for my favorite Spidey movie, my favorite HP movie, AND one of my favorite video games I’ve played in recent years. Thank you so much, Closer Look :)
Love the Mistborn shoutout. I read the first trilogy recently and was seriously mindblown by how good it was. Brandon Sanderson is really a master at the craft and understands good story telling. I completely agree with you that great stories have to have a message they want to convey and tell.
I think it’s also important to define Magic as a broad term as well. Everything, Everywhere, All At Once is a good example. It’s not magic per se, but unrealistic science. That film utilizes universal truths as well. This concept that no matter what the people we truly love do, there’s no place we’d rather be than with them. Perfectly explained through this new ability to literally be anyone, anywhere, in the infinite multiverse.
_"When I name dropped King Midas I bet that the majority of you had no bloody clue who the man was. His name didn't ring a bell for you."_ Well, that's an insane lack of faith in your audience. King Midas is easily one of the most recognizable names in Greek mythology. His name is probably more known by the general public than that of Hephaestus or even Icarus, particularly considering how his tale has been told as a bedtime story for kids for decades, probably even centuries, so you don't even need basic knowledge of Greek mythology to know his name. "The Midas touch" is literally a common idiom. I mean, come on, man.
my entire knowledge of greek mythology and story tropes comes entirely out of youtube and even ***I*** knew who king midas was :C (granted I first heard of the myth on Once Upon A Time)
Agree. I have no idea about the two names you mentioned and yet I know about King Midas from textbook in school. And I'm from Vietnam. King Midas is definitely one of the most well known names and stories in mythology.
I personally knew the name of Icarus and the wax wing story, and I knew of the concept of a character wishing everything he'd touch turns into gold, but I didn't know the name Midas was connected.
Magic isn’t the only unrealistic plot device that can be used to enhance the story. Fantasy and sci-fi are, in my opinion, gateways to talking about things that are very real and sometimes even taboos. It gives you more freedom to talk about real things as a core, with the nice, flashy and unique touches that come with the genres. I’m Dutch, so I don’t know how this is outside of the Netherlands, but it frustrates me most literary genres aren’t being taken seriously. We can pretty much only read novels. It all feels limited and similar. Fantasy and sci-fi can be about things that are just as real as novels can do. The fact that there’s magic, dragons, spaceships or whatever else there might be doesn’t make the story unrealistic. Only the setting is unrealistic but that’s a good thing as it allows you to discover a new universe, set up your own rules and that you can bind the story’s themes to your setting, allowing for more freedom and symbolism. I’m planning on writing books myself and if I can write in an engaging manner, I hope the next generation doesn’t just have to read novels for school.
Hi, I share your frustration about the fantasy and sci-fi genre not being taken seriously. So I was wondering if you were planning to write stories in Dutch (I'm from the Netherlands as well) and how you view language in fantasy and sci-fi stories. To be honest, I read all books in English (with the exception of when the book is original written in Dutch). And I've found that Dutch is a difficult language for fantasy, imo English sounds and feels more richer and better in these genres. But that could be because most movies/stories are written and published in English.
I’ve always loved good magic systems that have a lot of thought put into them. The magic system I’m working on for a story is based around microorganisms that can change based on the will of the one casting magic, and also the microorganisms connecting to the very soul of people and giving them powers based on who they are. I’d like to think I’m going with scientific reasoning behind many things in my magic system. I try my best to look at how things could work in my world. Magic is the be all end all in my world. Your videos have helped me so much with making almost everything in my story work together. Your videos are giving me so much motivation to write and I’m struggling to find the exact words to say next to really express how grateful I am for finding and enjoying your videos
@person person well sort of but not really. Midichlorians are more limited, fewer people can use them to their full potential, they have the same bag of tricks as everyone else, etc. In my story, it's magic that has fused to the very soul and gives people magic that would compliment them, and these can evolve as the person matures. An example would be the protagonist, as they go through more fights, an ability that heightens reaction speed, which would be a rank 3 ability out of 4, isn’t enough and they evolve to have a foresight to react to attacks that haven’t been thrown out yet.
Heck yeah, I love lessons about writing magic! It's always a _magical_ experience when you get into it 😉🤣 In all seriousness, I do appreciate magic lessons, since it always helps me innovate my own vision of magic in my stories 🥰
The cardinal sin of writing magic is to break a rule you established earlier. If you give someone a certain power, people will always ask from then on "Why don't they use their magic here?", and if there's no good reason, you've lost your audience.
@@EddyTheMartian I mean, of course they wouldn’t just mind wipe a being that threatened to destroy half the universe. That just makes too much sense. The only way was to have him be successful and fix it all after the fact. Otherwise most of this phase wouldn’t exist.
@@TheCloserLook good reason depends. The Owl House hasn't lost fans because episode 8 is a comedy centrist episode with a body swap spell that currently never brought up again
I'd love to see you do a video essay on the His Dark Materials show, there's a lot I think that can be discussed in terms of writing, it's also a pretty solid show overall, also am I the only one still patiently waiting for TCL to reach 1 million subs to see his first screenplay?
@@TheCloserLook When you promised that in your video I actually said out loud “Noo don’t do that to yourself!” Now that said, you could use it as a great learning tool, compare it against your current knowledge, and inspire new writers to keep learning even when they’re frustrated
Note for myself in the future: A great story explores a truth. 8:22 Symbols like in Chamber of Secrets and God of War reveals as a secret yet crucial element to great story telling.
I *adore* the King Midas analogue here. I think almost anyone concerned with creativity will inevitably wrestle with the reality that not every idea can be worth its weight in gold. And I think the worst art is produced by those who operate under the presumption that any idea THEIR mind touches IS turned to gold, no matter what.
I really loved this video, brother. I think there should be more videos on exploring why all the old stories work, even through their contrivances. I think that is something that has been missing the last few years, and is the heart of the problem of why western cinema has been falling off.
To be fair though, at the end of No Way Home, Peter kind of looses everything. He doesn't have material wealth, but he also doesn't have any loved ones anymore either. He's basically alone right now. He has nobody. I'd argue that the true meaning of No Way Home's plot is the self sacrifice required to be a hero. Because it's true that he did learn a lesson, but at the cost of loosing everybody that meant anything to him, so it's not like he could learn to appreciate them more, unlike the story of King Midus.
I love the way you talk. If my teachers and professors had narrated a lesson as passionately as you do, I would have absorbed every thing I was ever taught.
I'm humbled you think so highly of my stuff. I've often been told there is no such thing as a boring topic, but there is such a thing as a boring teacher.
7:54 - I don't know if it is a different schooling systems thing, but Greek and Roman mythology was one of the first thing you learned back in my school days. King Midas' myth, sword of Damocles, Pandora's Box, the tragedy of Oedipus were primary school material.
I am working on a world where basically my magic system is messy, there's multiple forms of magic, gods, and other things and I can't find a way to put it all together :(
My biggest tip is to make sure that everything is simple and easy to digest. Most franchises suffer from giving you too much to digest at one, just keep it connected concise and logical
I guess starting from one basic rule that unites them all helps. Mana is required, it is the fuel source. From there you could branch out. Eg: Unfocused raw mana is inefficient, painful and weak, it is the most primative form of magic. (many monsters use this) God's provide a way to process raw mana into specialised mana that allow certain schools of magic and is the second earliest form of magic. The archmages discovered methods to focus raw mana into usable and more efficient forms without needing to rely on God's. Obviously this puts them at odds with God magicians.
@@idontunderstandmemesplshel6198 a cool example of this is bloodflame magic in elden ring. Basically whenever you use it you are cutting into a formless god and using her blood.
I loved this video. You've a great way to explain and analyze everything, and I'm really glad you've made more content oriented for writers and not mostly for movie fans.
@@TheCloserLook glad to read that because I'm a writer myself and I really enjoy this kind of content, writing is pure freedom where you can create whole universes inside a drop of water.
Your videos are so fantastic because of how effectively you lay out and deconstruct everything in the video for idiots like me to understand. Genuinely some of the most valuable content on youtube, it's incredible that I don't need to pay for this.
I loved what you said about the most captivating stories being the ones that tell us truths and inspire us to live better. My favorite TV show is Adventure Time. Yes it's dumb and silly and colorful and it aired on cartoon network, but even as an adult watching that show helps align me how i want to live my life. The ever present themes of contentment and love that are throughout make it my favorite show of all time, as opposed to something like spongebob (which i also enjoy, just not nearly as much) which is just colorful and dumb and funny..
The rules to my magic are as follows: Celestials that inhabit the physical plane have access to abilities that can change elements of our universe, of that which it consists of, that we can't, those being Space, Time, Matter, and Energy. They can create matter out of nothing, whereas by our understanding of matter, everything is made from something. There is a finite amount of matter that we can use but a celestial can produce more out of sheer will, as an example of their ability. It's fairly free form but there are certain actions that must never be performed. Doing so would unravel the very multiverse they inhabit. You can travel through time, you can even slow it down to a point of near complete stillness; but it must never, under any circumstances, be reversed, as time only flows in one direction. Just felt like sharing as rules to magic systems are fascinating to explore.
Same… especially considering how world-breaking the magic is in the grander scheme of the MCU. Though in the way being discussed in the video I totally get it. Was the most Spiderman-like story the MCU has done ngl.
Agreed! Mistborn is amazing! The magic system and how it grows or our understanding changes throughout the series.... And it all just fits together so well.
There two types of people. The ones who spend weeks to months to years painstakingly crafting a complex magic system and closing the hundreds of plotholes it creates. And then there's most of Hollywood, who have this to say: "Ooh, magic! The Do-Whatever-I-Want Button!"
And the "oh snap this is a twenty year old franchise with like 300 writers and noone can contain that mess anymore" kinda thing lol. Looking at you Elder Scrolls, Naruto and stuff... everything is magic and it can do anything, but everyone always does magic differently, confusing even the hardest of fans.
You can be really proud of this essay, it’s brilliant, well done. Huge amount of work on the editing too, matching image to narration, very impressive.
This is actually so inspiring! I’ve been a bit on the fence over my story, because while it does have a (in my opinion) really quite nice magic system, I simply lacked the evidence to say that it was TRULY necessary. Now it’s going to also carry a message, thus (maybe) trucking it into a somewhat more enjoyable experience.
If this helps further, JK Rowling was suffering from depression while she was plotting the series during the 90s (and she was dealing with a lot: mother dying young, failed marriage, being a single mother to a young daughter, and poverty). The dementors are even supposed to be a metaphor for depression personified.
As an individual who's developing a magic system I just defined a few simple rules. There is conjure and manipulation, healing is relative to your intelligence and magical prowess and there are no deus ex machinas. Magic is a utility, not a solve all. Making restrictions has made it alot more fun to work around those rules in creative ways without breaking them.
Magic is the ultimate metaphor, that's why they're so great at delivering deep messages because it's abstract ideas given form through it. You managed to insight me with this revelation while watching this, and i think I'm gonna need to rethink my entire system now.
Well, I don't have any magic in the book I'm writing but you made me realize something. There's a part where my main characters make an improbable escape and I wasn't confortful with it, but by adding a consequence to pay (like Peter Parker's identity) it will seem less deus-ex-macchina. Thus, that improbable escape will now cost the life of one of the main characters (he was going to die later but I can rewrite that).
Everyone always made fun of Peter for being so young and thus immature, why would a legit medical doctor not talk about the risks and rules of something like that with him? That sounds stupid... Doctors, probably especially the magic ones love that shit....
The other thing is that Peter didn't even do anything wrong besides being impulsive. It was basically a total accident, because the point was that Mysterio's goons literally ruined his life and the spell could have worked just fine.
Idk if you watch Re:zero but it does pretty much the same thing you’re describing in this video. Maybe not all the magic in the show is used like that, but the main character’s Return By Death ability is a really good example of what you’re describing I think. Every time he dies he returns back in time to a previous “save point.” So this magic in some way is what forces him to grow as a person and so far in the series he’s learned several important and invaluable lessons. Because of this power he’s forced to grow unless he repeats the suffering over and over. And what’s funny is I don’t think this specific ability will be explained fully in the future but to me that makes it all the more special.
The same happens with Ron in the forbidden forest, as he confronts his biggest fear, spiders (mostly being dragged there by Harry of course), he is rewarded a free escape tool in the form of the magical car coming back to save them. It’s not a perfect example, but I think it still works quite well
I feel like you would really like the webserial Worm. Not only is it the best superhero story I've ever experienced, the way in which it uses it's power system is truly breathtaking. It manages to be wholly original while also giving a depth to standard superhero powers that I've never quite seen before.
I'll say this Dr.Strange in No way home was really the victim of Disney writing, the power levels are off, the first spell felt okay because of the runes but man just casts a universal memory wipe easily without the runes at the end..... I personally couldn't accept it , no consistency with the characters power levels and just used as a plot device
Such an interesting point about Midas being remembered over so many other stories. Stories that express something true are always more satisfying than random flights of fancy (like most movies).
Here's my take: If Peter was wise, it wouldn't be him letting the runes complete as intended, it'd be him not immediately resorting to magic to gaslight the entire universe just because his friend and girlfriend can't get accepted into college. As for Midas: His mistake wasn't making the wish, it was what he wished in particular. Dionysus was like "Dude, you sure about that? Don't you want to try another wish?"
People who say nwh is so good just because of nostalgia they are so wrong. I believe one of the most important things about story is to have a struggling protagionist. Peter struggles a whole lot.
People talk about the phoenix plot device in the chamber of secrets all of the time. Not only does the phoenix come in and gouge out the basilisks eyes, but how did it get down there in the first place? What happened to the wall of rocks that ron couldnt get through? And then after harry gets bit by the basilisk, the phoenix happens to have healing tears that are the only thing that can cure basilisk venom? Then the phoenix just scoops them all up and flys out of there? I mean, im a huge harry potter fan, but damn. That book should be called Harry Potter and The Chamber of The Plot Device 😂
Since I one day hope to making and writing in the film and to industry all of these tips and tricks in all your videos truly are a world of help to me thank you🙏
I don't know if it counts but Fullmetal Alchemist brotherhood also uses magic (well alchemy) in a great way... The rule of equivalent exchange established once is never broken and that is one of the reasons it's so great... Great video 🌸🌸🍀✨
2:59, Nickelodeon’s animated children’s television series Danny Phantom ended its second season with the episode Reality Trip whose plot was driven by the title character’s secret identity being exposed but which ended with exactly what you just described happening
Really interesting ideas here, which I agree with strongly. I really like the narrative descriptions you touch on, but I'd also like to raise some criticism / some things which the "brilliant" NWH magic did: Basically, why on Earth does Doctor Strange have a massively different power level depending on the movie? Like are you seriously telling me that the man who defeated Doormamu by literal force of will can't simply handle a teenager? Really? Maybe you would've thought he could've planned this out a bit? Again, I still agree that it serves as a great setup for a cathartic ending, but it was massively overshadowed for me by the ridiculous "logic can be what we want it to be" moments in the film.
I think you simply look at the result of that fight more than fight itself. In the fight itself at start Strange used a simple move he used for everyone but Spider sense got in the way. Later he used mirror dimension to both have more control over him since he knows more about it and after a certain point he wins. He neither had to hurt Peter and got the box. That's where this critisizm baffles me because Strange won and he thought Peter can't do anything now. I mean what anybody expect Peter to do in this situation. Accept defeat? Simply try to attack Strange? Well he did neither he looked at his surroundings and used it to do an attack let me tell you no one can simply predict. That's why he won. Strange already thought he won and his underestimatation on him became bigger and Peter did a move no one can thought of. It both estabilished more grounded rules to mirror dimension in a way too instead of making it a simple spectacle. Which is really cool. And about Dormamu. Strange never beat him. He outsmarted him sure but if your idea is "If he can outsmart Dormamu no one can outsmart him" well then you are wrong. Espacily when what Strange did was a lot more simple than what Peter did.
Strange had no intention of seriously harming Peter. He’s holding back the entire fight. Most of the time Strange fights in the mirror dimension, he fought by twisting it to suit his needs. Peter using the apparent randomness of the dimension against him was something new. Not to mention entirely unexpected from a kid that was put into a situation like this for the first time. Strange underestimated him , he was surprised at how Peter could control his astral form
It's funny, but I took away precisely the opposite conclusion you perhaps intended. You see, I enjoy the social sciences very deeply and passionately, so I've spent a lot of time studying them. I've looked into the history of moral philosophy, studied cultures ancient to modern, read literature from different places and eras, read up about the development of schools of political thought... And I have to say, the idea of "universal moral truths" is, ironically, not in itself a universally held belief. It's an invention, largely of the Modernist school of thought that sought to produce singular grand narratives with which to frame the world... Grand narratives that always just so happened to center on European values and European history and European culture, tidily brushing under the rug everything that didn't quite fit. If anything, the case being made here is greater proof of Simon Blackburn's argument for moral quasi-realism - the notion that morality isn't a materially real thing, but people behave as if it is; as it is with all social constructs. I believe that to be descriptively true across all of human history. And if moral "truths" constantly have to be backed up by reality warping in order to manifest physically in a narrative, maybe what it really means is that moral ideals are just that: Ideals. Things that exist in people's minds, that can only be physically real if the supernatural exists to alter the laws of the universe for their sake. As for specifics, though... No Way Home is a poor example for any moral argument. After all, Peter in the MCU... never needed to learn the lesson Uncle Ben teaches most Spider-Men, because he already knew it from day one. From the minute we meet him, he's established as someone who has done nothing but try to help others with the best intentions. He was never selfish, nor was he ever truly irresponsible in the sense of wasting his power to better the world through inaction; rather, his flaws were that he was impulsive and insecure, as many teenagers often are. The lessons he needed were to have self-confidence and to slow down and think things through instead of leaping before he looked. And while we got to that eventually, it just doesn't follow that he was trying to get an easy way out of the moral consequences of some wrongdoing. Why? Because he didn't do anything wrong beforehand. Explicitly, in no uncertain terms, he was the victim of a mass harassment campaign perpetrated by 1) a literal gang of tech-savvy criminals, 2) a far-right reactionary propagandist (come on, JJJ is basically just Alex Jones in the MCU, it's clear as day), and 3) the callousness and cruelty of the court of public opinion. He was the victim of, basically, doxxing and targeted harassment. For what? Trying to do the right thing and help people. Being selfless. Being a hero. The idea that his actions afterward were in any way morally transgressive is ludicrous. At worst it was a manifestation of Peter's flaws - insecurity and impulsivity leading to panic and poorly thought out decisions. Decisions that the Sorcerer Supreme, the one living human who understands causality and time the best out of anyone in the universe, should have talked a scared teenager through. Strange's entire movie was about learning the consequences of messing with time and seeing magic as a quick fix for personal gain. His entire character from his debut onward revolved around the fact that he of all people has been through infinite hells and back to gain an intimate understanding of causal relationships. This wasn't Peter's lesson to learn, and the one whose lesson it was learned it thousands of times over in his own movie. Strange should have known better, because he did know better. It's another Last Jedi Luke scenario: The one very specific thing an older mentor character should have known, because it was the entire heart of their personal growth arc, is the one thing they dropped the ball on. But you know what? Even the attempts to mess with the spell were ultimately driven by Peter's concern for other people over his own well-being. He didn't go running for a wizard because HE got rejected. He went running because his friends got rejected. Half of the reason he wanted to change the spell was because he was irrationally afraid of the emotional distress it MIGHT cause his aunt or his friends, and maybe a little bit of that was the perfectly reasonable hope that he wouldn't get screwed for once, that he could get to keep just a bit of happiness from having friends and family and a girlfriend he can be honest around. What's wrong with that? At the end of the day, Peter got punished for wanting to do the right thing. The only lesson here is that life as Spider-Man sucks and takes everything away from Peter Parker, by hook or by crook, and yet he does it anyway. Also, Arthurian and Greek myth? Pretty bad sources of moral lessons here. The whole thing about cursed women in Greek mythology has been a (fairly explicitly) misogynistic trope for ages; the idea that strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is a good basis for a system of government is ridiculous; and the gods mainly punish people for the terrible sin of... defying them, or daring to be better than them at anything (Arachne, anyone?), or pissing them off because the gods are often pretty terrible, selfish bastards who act out of ego and spite. If it's supposed to speak to some "moral truth" that the rightful ruler of Britain is a monarch whose rule is legitimized by the inherent validity of bloodline and magic... That leads to some very harmful conclusions. As it did when Japan decided its emperor's divine right extended to dominion of the world in the 1940s. As it has every time a ruler invoked the divine right of kings.
@@kat8559 Damn right. That's why I'm not a bloody modernist. I suspect my perspective is rather... leftward of the general audience here, but acknowledging the diversity of historical perspectives and philosophies is a thing that was taught to me from my very first undergraduate sociology courses. It's necessary to avoid the fallacious nature of ethnocentrism and make us aware of our implicit biases. One thing I probably should have elaborated on further: The idea that morality can be derived from intuitive feelings humans are presumed to share is one that has unfortunately led to a staggering number of historical tragedies. Intuitions are informed by societal conditioning and a lot of evolutionary baggage that's often outright dangerous - human tribalism is "natural", as a consequence of evolutionary drives, but "us versus them" has never been a healthy standard for human societies. It also often leads to the conclusion that people who experience the world differently are inherently less moral, an idea that has been used to discriminate against the neurodivergent for far longer than the term has existed.
Amazing video👏👏. Not only have you explained why magic is used in fantasy and how to use them well but you also explained the importance of a story's depth
6:15 The original version of this myth doesn't even have his daughter exist. In fact, it's far more comedic, because the god he asks for a boon is Dionysus, god of drunken revelry. A god who is hesistant because EVEN THE EMBODIMENT OF THE DRUNKEN PARTIER KNOWS WHAT A BAD IDEA THIS IS. Midas isn't so much greedy as he is dumb as hell. It's one of the few examples I know of where the original myth is LESS dark than the modern tellings.
Really? That's intersting, I love the contrast of even the party god knowing it's a bad idea. But that only presents an even more interesting question, because why did the myth evolve from that to being the one it is today? Maybe that version didn't capture the truth perfectly enough, so the story gradually changed as it was retold until it ended up being the refined story we know today.
@@TheCloserLook The core idea of the myth remains ("pursuing wealth at the cost of all else will lose you everything else"), but in the more modern telling it's framed as a tragedy. My guess is it's to make the message of the potential consequences clearer, tho personally I prefer the funny version. The only consequences he gets in the original myth is needing to run to Dionysus for help and bathing in a river until his powers get washed away. King Midas was originally a well-meaning but dumb, comedic character; he did a dumb thing, got consequences for it, and begged Dionysus for help (and apparently the myth is used to explain a river filled with electrum, which is a detail I really like). And then in a later myth proceeded to insult Apollo and get donkey ears for his trouble...
@@TheCloserLook Or perhaps... It was because people wanted to impose more rigid moral beliefs that were created over time, beliefs that were historically used to reinforce the idea of social hierarchies as natural (mortal and god, commoner and king, woman and man, and so on). As such, older myths that stemmed from other traditions, in this case likely the philosophical school of hedonism, would have been syncretized and adapted to a new religious school of thought... But that's just speculation on my part, building on the things I've studied about religious transformation over time and the use of moral philosophy as a tool to instill obedience to authority (as with Plato and the concept of the Noble Lie). It's just a thought to consider.
Never thought I would agree to someone loving HP's magic but here we are. Minor sidenote: Fawkes and his magic healing tears were set up before in the book. When I read it the first time as a child, I was constantly wondering why the damn phoenix wouldn't heal HP.
Speaking as someone who writes as a hobby (I can't call myself a writer because as of yet I can't seem to force myself to finish the stories) I've worked on and off on projects for years, turning them over in my head writing and rewriting them cause they didn't fit right and then I'd get to a point where I'd say "That's what I was going for" cause it clicks at that point, I just know for certain this is what needs to happen. And then I'd turn to another part of the project and work on that, leave it, come back, start working again, another piece clicks, etc. And then I have a lightning bolt moment where I realize this message or theme I have inadvertantly created that I wasn't even intending to has worked it's way into various parts of my story. And I look at it and wonder "Does this story have a mind of it's own and I'm just telling it?" I've been working on one story for easily half my life (it's gone through a lot of changes) and I only just realized a few days ago "Holy shit, one of my themes is the regret, guilt, and self forgiveness (which I did not intend), and it's beautifully weaved into these five separate aspects that I've been working on at completely separate times." I've also realized at separate times that I've inadvertently created messages about faith, about identity, about accountability, etc. All completely unintentional, the building blocks that led to them just fit right. And if that's happening to me, someone who can't even call themselves an amateur writer, I'd be shocked if all writers of great works truly conceptualized how their different choices worked on so many levels. I'm sure there are some things that are intentional in every project, but I don't think you could possibly think of all of it consciously This is the reason why I get really irritated at books or movies that are trying to push an agenda, first and foremost. If you're serious about your work and trying to make a good story/characters first and foremost, any messages that are deep and meaningful to you are going to follow naturally. But when you start with the message, not only is it usually totally obvious to the audience who then rolls their eyes and either assents to or yells in expectation of being lectured, it also usually leads to a story that can't stand on it's own when you take out the message
The tale of Midas shouldn't his clothes have been turned to gold as soon as hr got his powers? Shouldn't thr whole building turn to gold as soon as he steped on the ground? Shouldn't all of Earth be gold?
Perhaps the magical transmutation ability only extends to his hands (or even just fingertips). It's never explicitly said in the story(ies) but it would be consistent with the results he experiences. That would prevent the scenario you (very logically) laid out.
As much as I agree with everything else I gotta' call out the Chamber of Secrets plot contrivance thing, can't name any off the topic of my head but I've seen a bunch of people complain about the phoenix stuff, so there are definitely people who didn't like it XD
Oh really? Lol, nevermind. But yeah, JK rowling could have probably laid a stronger forshadowing for some of those story beats. It wouldn't have hurt to do so.
Ok, though the roosters all being killed is noticed as is Ginny panicking about the chicken feathers on her. And the Basilisk is described as fleeing from a rooster’s crow. And that’s before Harry’s battle with it. So the extent to which it’s un-foreshadowed is exaggerated. And Dumbledore introduces Fawkes while mentioning the healing powers of Phoenix Tears.
i love Tom's peter and his growning as a character, we first see him in civil war just months after losing uncle and while he already learn from his Uncle Ben's phrase "when you can do the things that i can but you don't, and then the bad things happen? they happen because of you" and how he should use his powers to help people around him, but what's amazing is that he didn't fully understand it yet and it took the lost of his aunt for him to actually learn that he must always do the right thing, even if it means losing everything
Another great magic system, transcending the screen to the page, is Witch Hat Atelier. Instead of saying the spells or using wands, they're drawn. Depending on how perfect the outer circle is when you complete it, what stuff surrounds the basic sigil, etc, a variety of effects can be achieved. It gets really creative with some of them (though really I just wanted an excuse to gush about a manga I love. The mangaka also has a history with Marvel fun fact!)
The reason myths all contain fantasy elements is because that's part of the definition of a myth. There are plenty of stories from the past that show a moral or universal concept without fantasy elements. However, these are defined as folklore or legends. Being supernatural is part of the classification. It's like saying that all mammals are warm-blooded because because all the cold-blooded mammals died off, rather than that just being part of the definition of a mammal.
No Way Home is interesting for me because I have many logistical issues with its ending (Does Peter still exist legally? Was his documentation erased? Has any video footage of him interacting with people been edited? Are those schoolbooks at the end there because he has to retake his GED because he lost all of his records? How did he rent the apartment without those records?), and yet I don't care all that much. Because the ending is still a bold move that teaches a good lesson and I respect that. This is why every creative writing teacher puts more importance on themes than plot; a plot can make total logical sense, but still be unmemorable without a powerful message.
Hard agree on this. Of course it's important to have rules that make sense, but I firmly believe too many people get so focused on having verisimilitude, they forget to even think about how the magic is serving the larger story. It's like a gardener being so focused on making each blade of grass perfectly placed, they never stop to realise the overall structure of their garden is a mess.
@@theroyaljules39 he analysis movies frame by frame and can solve plot holes in the movie by looking at the details. New rockstars along with screencrush and the Canadian lad do these sort of things along with theories.
Wow I genuinely didn't like chamber of secrets when I was younger because it absolutely felt like that phoenix came out of no where to save the day. I just figured that millions of people adored the series and wouldn't wanna hear the negative opinion of a kid. I'm so glad you gave me a new perspective!!
You believe very few knew king Midas? I highly doubt that. (Based on nothing, except I have a feeling people have been told this story in school like I did and I never forgot his name)
A closer look, if you haven’t watched Everything Everywhere at Once, please do so. You will not regret it, it has finally solved the age long debate of what my favorite movie is. I never could have solved it until now. It needs a full video, it deserves it
Your explanation of harry potter and how these well written stories have meanings deeper than the writer consciously sees is spot on. Great writing leaves certain questions unanswered for the imagination to wonder but also gives answers that have layers to them!
I'm not sure about this. I think Fawkes blinding the basilisk *and* healing Harry's wound is questionable storytelling. The ending of Chamber of Secrets never really impressed me, in the books or the movies. I'd even suggest that the reason nobody complained about that ending in the movie is because it was faithful to the book, and fans appreciated the accuracy. To clarify: I'm not saying it's terrible. I never particularly *disliked* the ending of Chamber of Secrets, either. But this encounter with the basilisk always felt quite underwhelming to me compared to other climaxes in the series (and certainly compared to climaxes in other movies), and maybe this double whammy of deus ex machina (which I've never really acknowledged before) is the reason for that lukewarm response. I think if I re-wrote the scene, Fawkes would still come to Harry's assistance (illustrating that bravery has its rewards), but Harry would be more proactive in defeating the beast. Harry and Fawkes would be more of a team, as opposed to Fawkes pulling Harry's butt out of the fire on two separate occasions. But, hey, who am I to question J.K. Rowling? She's a pretty good writer. lol And I always enjoy your videos and respect your opinions. In fact, I agree with your opinions 99% of the time. I'm only commenting now because this is one of the rare occasions when our opinions don't perfectly align. Keep up the great work.
In the book, both Fawkes’s ability to fight the Basilisk and his eventual healing are foreshadowed. In the movie, the latter is foreshadowed though I don’t remember if the former were. It’s not actually a Deus Ex Machina
@@matityaloran9157 That's fair enough. But even if those helpful interventions from Fawkes are technically not deus ex machina, they still feel a little too *convenient* to me, personally. There's a reason that I've never found that encounter particularly exciting or memorable. It's similar in nature to Persus fighting Medusa in Clash of the Titans, and yet the Medusa fight is more suspenseful, more dramatic, in my opinion -- probably because Perseus has to overcome Medusa's petrifying gaze using his own ingenuity. The Medusa scene is wrought with tension, but there's a feeling of disappointment, almost, as Fawkes simply swoops in and neutralises the basilisk's greatest power, the power that had been built up throughout the entire story.
@@DavidM_10 That’s an entirely legitimate critique. That the protagonist should overpower the antagonist by finding the answer through what he himself is capable of. I have a similar critique of the Lion Turtle resolution in Avatar: The Last Airbender in contrast to something like Aladdin wherein Aladdin realizes that Jafar is just as dependent on the Genie as he was and as such as reluctant to give him up and uses that to outwit Jafar. So I can accept that as a legitimate critique.
life is a magic i do believe is the best written piece of magic i never read. i just live it. great magic needs no writer, it makes his own rules. but if you want to write about magic, you need a hero who like to plan and loves control and knowledge. a good mage is alwyas a good villain, but its rare to see a good hero be a mage. a mage who knows to use magic and you are aware of magic, good magic, works...there is no fight.
I’ve been watching you for a while now, and I can’t express how much I appreciate you for all the great content you provide us with! thanks for inspiring me to start my own channel ❤️
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
I hope you enjoyed the video!
If you don't know, I run a discord server where we chat about writing our own stories plus our general love for good movies and games. You're more than welcome to join our community by clicking this link: discord.com/invite/aJpYPQX
Looking forward to seeing you there!
- Henry
I would be surprised if you aren't familiar with Jordan Peterson's Maps of Meaning. The ideas in this video are the same as some from his 2017 lecture series, but presented in a more entertaining way. If you aren't familiar with the Maps of Meaning, I can only conclude that you are very well read in subjects from mythology to Jungian psychology.
@@lonjohnson5161 I haven't checked out maps of meaning yet. it does look interesting, but I just kind of watched a ton of youtube videos on the topic and learnt from those.
I just want to say that I enjoy your positive videos a lot more than your more “ranty” ones. I find it more interesting (and better for my soul) to hear about things that you like and that inspire you, instead of more negative videos. So cheers to you, I hope you keep it up!
i just got to the part of the video where the final empire series was mentioned and i have just been reading the series and you mentioned it
@@lonjohnson5161 I'm gonna be honest... I gave it a look and found Jordan Peterson's argument to be an incoherent mess soaked in quasi-mysticism and rather little being said in quite a lot of flowery language about dragons. As someone who actually has extensively studied philosophy, sociology, mythology, and literature, I found it remarkably unimpressive.
They did it. They managed to write an ending more depressing than Infinity War’s. To clarify, as soon as we recovered from the shell shock of that ending, we understood that “they’re gonna come back, right?” There was an expectation that this disastrous outcome will be undone. No Way Home doesn’t establish that. It sets a new permanent status quo for the character. No one knows who Peter is and he has to live with that for the foreseeable future. Dude is alone in the universe.
Dude paid huge costs for his decisions
That's interesting, my own interpretation of the ending was much more optimistic - after the scene with MJ in the café, I just thought Peter decided this was the wrong time to make his move. He realises he's a complete stranger to her now, and overloading her with his whole story at their first meeting would have scared her and put her off. So he puts away his paper and walks out. In my mind, there's no reason for him to assume she would be happier without him - particularly since she made him promise to come and find her after Strange's spell erased her mind. But if he is going to rebuild his relationship to MJ, he's going to have to do it gradually - and to me, his realisation in the end isn't that he has to let MJ go, but that he has to take his time.
@@thesardonicpig3835 Considering that her clothes changed and she doesn't know why but she put on the necklace Peter gave her...I agree that he is probably just going to take his time(also indicative of his growth as a person)....because if he does come back into her life, it looks like he will be able to rekindle the fire
@@thesardonicpig3835 New Rockstars pointed out that MJ is still wearing the Black Dahlia necklace in the end. That may be why Peter decided to wait, as it’s a sign that even though her memory of him is gone, some part of her deep down still loves him. This would corroborate your interpretation and my hope for the next movies, when I hope Peter will eventually reach out and get Ned and MJ back in his life, them being the last remnants of his former life. Even though NWH technically has way lower stakes than IW, it hit me more on a “it’d SUCK to be Peter” level. It’s tragic on a more human, personal level, whereas it’s really hard to imagine living in a world with 50% the usual number of people.
Kid's got no way home
A common misconception when writing magic is that you can do whatever because magic has no rules. But the magic in virtually every well-written series is defined by its rules that maintain immersion. The moment you break an established rule with the excuse of 'because magic' you will have broken the audience's immersion
What are the rules that are maintained in Harry Potter or LOTR? I'm genuinely curious.
This is why Brandon Sanderson's magic is on another level
@@ChibsterofNurgy there really isn't any, it's just relatively consistent. Harry Plopper is a world suffused with magic, so most anything seems possible. When someone says certain words, a certain action occurs with magic. Fairly mundane, but there are plenty of other "magical" happenings in the series that don't use words.
LOTR is also fairly freeform. Gandalf can't just disintegrate saulron with a word or blow an army off of a cliff, but he can do inhuman things. He feels grounded and has limits, unlike a character like Tom Bombadil. Tom seems to be able to do anything, but I don't really mind because he was shown to be more of a primordial force. LOTR is good because it has a great story and the magic is not overwhelmin, it just adds spice to the story.
It's more that the magic isn't over the top and it doesn't solve every single problem. There are more "limits" to the magic rather than established "rules".
I tend to disagree with OP's opinion on "good" magic. Rules are secondary and less important than the consistency and the fantastical nature of magic. Avatar: The Last Airbender is a good example of that for me. Before The Legend of Korra came out, the magic was an unexplained, innate part of the world and some people. It was fantastical and consistent, it was special. Then TLoK came out and explained every aspect of the universe and turned it into something so boring to me.
Magic only needs rules if it is used to affect the plot. Like think of a Gjubli movie like House Moving Castle, all the magic importen to the plot is told/shown while everything else is left opent ended
This kind of magic is called hard magic. There's also soft magic. It is more mysterious and audience doesn't know how it works.
As long as writers respect their own magic systems rules, then it’s fine what the magic can do.
facts
Also another thing that people need to understand. Let’s say we got novices in magic they know the bare minimum. Say something like this I never knew you could do that with magic. And something gets done without their knowledge. I don’t see that as a bad thing as long as it’s explained. What if it’s not there comes the bad thing. We get that a lot of people saying that’s all Retcon. Even when they have the explanation. Also if those novices become masters. Because you always have people that do things better than you or no more than you because they live longer especially in stories.
Basically just has to fit into the world and has an explanation.
@@KamiAnimeS1 A big part of the problem is when someone just happens to learn something at a particular point in time to solve their problem or when it’s so far detached from the limits of the magic system shown thus far. It doesn’t feel right if it just comes out of left field to solve the main character’s problem. At least with the Phoenix you see it before hand and the Phoenix is a popular icon in a lot of fiction and the concept of a Phoenix healing someone isn’t exactly new. It doesn’t feel like it was invented for the sake of the protagonist and the world doesn’t revolve around them.
@@caelcdye9575 yup I really want to talk to you more dude
Don’t say that. You’re going to scare people who defend the Star Wars sequels
Just wanna point out that the phoenix in Chamber of Secrets wasn’t a Deus Ex Machina. A Deus Ex Machina is something that comes out of nowhere with no previous mention or explanation that solves the main problem or all problems in the story. Since the phoenix was shown and mentioned, with its abilities being explained early on (the tears healing powers), it is instead a form of Chekhov’s Gun. Where in a story if a gun is mentioned early on, at some point, that gun must be used in some way. Otherwise you’d just be wasting the readers time explaining this gun to them.
That's a fair point. i chose the wrong term.
@@TheCloserLook It’s all good, just felt like popping up and saying it so the mistake doesn’t get repeated. I love watching your and many other TH-camrs analysis and breakdown videos to help further my knowledge of storytelling. So make no mistake, you have taught me so much more than I could hope to give back in a single comment, thank you
I kind of feel like you're both sort of right. It may technically be a Chekhov's Gun, but it also *feels* Deus ex Machina'y because Fawkes just shows up out of nowhere, with no indication that Dumbledore knew what was going on, or Harry ever requesting its help.
@@knightsabre7 I agree with you, it van be viewed as deus ex machina, but Dumbledore really hammer it up during their conversation that phoenix are extremely loyal and if Harry needs help Fawkes would help him. At least in the books the whole stuff is well foreshadowed, but I can see the likes of Cinema Sins "ding" it as Deux Ex Machina.
Well, the phoenix might not be a Deus Ex Machina in and of itself, but him appearing out of nowhere to save the day is, as nothing explains beforehand why he could have been here. In fact in a sense it is very close to the origin of the word because, if I remember correctly, it comes from ancient Greece where they would use machines to make an actor appear out of nowhere, as the phoenix did
23:33 "The fact fantasy can allow itself to be so detatched from reality, allows it to scrutinize our reality with a level of exactness that a non-fantasy writer would envy."
Very well-said.
I’ve always loved magic systems. In a story I’m working on, magic is harnessing the power of gods and other spirits for your own purposes. If you wish to learn minor, harmless spells, go ahead, anyone can do it with enough practice. But if you want to become truly skilled in magic, you must combine this magical essence with part of your soul, essentially passing on ownership of your soul-fragment to whatever god controls the magic you’re learning. To become more skilled, you must give up more and more of your soul until there’s nothing left to give, and the gods have absolute ownership of you forever. This makes for a nifty allegory for sacrifice and consequences, and also serves as a convenient explanation for why not everyone is an all-powerful wizard, it’s rarely worth it.
Dope concept
You should look into The Poppy War's magic system !
It's basically what you're working on, minus the part where everyone can use basic magic (well... Technically they can, but arcane knowledge has been hidden from the general population because it's too dangerous if left unchecked)
In this world Shamans can call upon the power of gods and let them use their soul and body as a vessel. Keeping control is extremely hard, and the power itself is rarely worth the destruction it can bring if the god decides to let loose.
And of course, each god has its personnality.
Sounds like a fun system!
Funny thing that its actually like that except that its never worth it...
You could do something quite interesting here: due to this search for ultimate magical power resulting in an inevitable servitude, rather than having the villain be the one seizing godly magical power, have it be the hero seizing it to stop the villain, and treat it as a sacrifice. Hero's freedom for the greater good.
I think it'd be cool at least
I loved the segment about the basilisk being a metaphor for fear itself. Simply incredible. Now I want to watch the movie again...
Thanks. Glad you found it interesting!
The third F...
WOW
The version of the story of Midas you tell here is a later version in the original version he doesn't turn his daughter to gold, and Dionysus didn't simply turn it back when Midas showed regret for his wish, he led him to a river and told him to bathe in it so that the water would wash his gift away.
Then he gets goat ears for being rude to Dionysus and everything goes wrong for him again.
@@oscarstandidge7917 donkey ears and it's because he's being rude to Apollo, saying Pan won a music competition against Apollo when everyone (including Pan) agrees Apollo was the better musician
@@tiagocidraes2390 Thanks for the correction
Actually
@@tiagocidraes2390 he wasn't even being rude he basically just went "nah there's no way pan lost that," and then apollo was like "oh you must have donkey ears" and bc apollo's a god boom he got donkey ears
This put into words something I couldn't explain for years. I've been writing stories since I was a kid, and sci-fi and fantasy are by far my favorite genres in writing, which is exactly what my current story is based around. I didn't realize that I was doing this until I saw the video all the way through, but I'm looking back at the story that I've made so far and I'm realizing that I did exactly this. The story I'm working on covers a "truth" surrounding trauma and mental demons, and I'm realizing that the magic I have set here reflects that much more clearly than it would have other wise. The collective unconsciousness is stronger than I thought it was.
Wow, that's mad.
@@TheCloserLook It really is!
I believe Full Metal Alchemist pulls it off in a great way. When the magic of alchemy has an unbreakable rule - equivalent exchange. You cannot pull something out of thin air, it has to come from something. You can't conjure a stone spear, you must have stone to transform it into a desired shape. The most brutal example of this rule was when the main heroes wanted to use alchemy to revive a dead person. The spell consumed their flesh, ridding one of a leg and arm, while the other lost his entire body and had his soul transferred to a set of armor to survive.
Magic. Has. Rules.
FMA breaks its own rules.
@Cobbido where?
Peter trying to rebuild his life from scratch might just be one of the most difficult things these characters could possibly overcome in their lifes. I only wonder whether the spell that erases people’s memory of him also erases every shred of physical and/or virtual document that proves his existence
It probably does. At the end we see that he’s studying to get his GED, which means there’s most likely no record that he ever attended Midtown
They show a class pictures he was in and his face is now covered by one thing or anothwr
15:27, it’s not actually a Deus Ex Machina, Dumbledore revealed earlier on that that Fawkes’s tears had healing powers so Chekhov’s Gun would require them to be used at a later point in the story
I love that you got me to think about why I remember the king Midas story so well when I hear other stories every day. After all king Midas isn’t really a great story. It’s really fairly bland. Yet we remember it because of the underlying truths behind the story. In other words the “foundation” that the story stands upon is memorable.
Bringing it to stories today, I suppose that is why a movie like morbius is currently getting so much flack. It has no message. It’s clearly only trying to help set up a spider-verse for profit, but has no lasting message. Compare that to iron-man 1 which set off the mcu. The message of the movie is responsibility, and change. Tony took responsibility for his weapons getting in the wrong hands, but he starts the journey to fix his wrongs and change as a person. From there the mcu could be born because the underlying message of its flagship film was strongly connected to a powerful message.
That's why I love Dark Knight villains, their messages are "work hard and work smart to be strong"
... shouldn't a story and how good it is be judged primarily on the truths it explores and how well it does?
@@plzletmebefrank yes that was what I was saying. The more connected to truths that humans identify with the stronger it will be. It also has to be well told. Think the Iliad, or don quixote. Their strength lies in their message. It’s also well told. Compare to a blockbuster with explosions, like pacific rim. There’s a reason some are remembered, and others are a summer flick.
@@SirToaster9330 For Joker, while that may be one way to interpret it, his smarts to me were just a means to his end. The Joker describes himself as 'an agent of chaos', but chaos can just mean a bunch of drunk night club parties with the occasional fight (as stereotypical as that may sound). I saw the Joker as essentially the representation of what it would look like if someone were to, within human and real world limitations, find the most bombastic ways to destroy any sense of order as wide as possible. Rob a bank, take down mobs, kill a few, threaten an actually well-received political candidate, put the police on a wild goose chase... all the while having no motive anyone can trace to you. And the films' sole intent was to portray how a civilisation would react to their own destruction by a force no real life power could really control, except by refusing its terms after finally understanding the contract.
Mistborn is definitely one of my favourite series ever... And the follow-up, the Wax and Wayne series, is almost as good, and maybe even more enjoyable
I only finished the first 3 mistborn books a month ago, I'll definitely check out Wax and Wayne soon.
Thought so, too, and then I read The Way of Kings.
@@asmahasmalaria8596 Stormlight is required reading for fantasy fans I believe.
I loved the Stormlight Archive by him. It got me through months of a really mind-numbing job just listening to that book series everyday, and I only got like halfway through it.
You’ve single-handedly given me a greater appreciation for my favorite Spidey movie, my favorite HP movie, AND one of my favorite video games I’ve played in recent years. Thank you so much, Closer Look :)
No problem, you have good tastes.
Love the Mistborn shoutout. I read the first trilogy recently and was seriously mindblown by how good it was. Brandon Sanderson is really a master at the craft and understands good story telling. I completely agree with you that great stories have to have a message they want to convey and tell.
I think it’s also important to define Magic as a broad term as well. Everything, Everywhere, All At Once is a good example. It’s not magic per se, but unrealistic science. That film utilizes universal truths as well. This concept that no matter what the people we truly love do, there’s no place we’d rather be than with them. Perfectly explained through this new ability to literally be anyone, anywhere, in the infinite multiverse.
_"When I name dropped King Midas I bet that the majority of you had no bloody clue who the man was. His name didn't ring a bell for you."_
Well, that's an insane lack of faith in your audience. King Midas is easily one of the most recognizable names in Greek mythology. His name is probably more known by the general public than that of Hephaestus or even Icarus, particularly considering how his tale has been told as a bedtime story for kids for decades, probably even centuries, so you don't even need basic knowledge of Greek mythology to know his name. "The Midas touch" is literally a common idiom. I mean, come on, man.
my entire knowledge of greek mythology and story tropes comes entirely out of youtube and even ***I*** knew who king midas was :C (granted I first heard of the myth on Once Upon A Time)
Agree. I have no idea about the two names you mentioned and yet I know about King Midas from textbook in school. And I'm from Vietnam. King Midas is definitely one of the most well known names and stories in mythology.
I'm Nigerian and I 100% agree. Also, I know those two you mentioned! 😉
I knew about Midas way before I knew anything from Greek mythology. In fact the myth being greek is actually a recent discovery for me
I personally knew the name of Icarus and the wax wing story, and I knew of the concept of a character wishing everything he'd touch turns into gold, but I didn't know the name Midas was connected.
Magic isn’t the only unrealistic plot device that can be used to enhance the story. Fantasy and sci-fi are, in my opinion, gateways to talking about things that are very real and sometimes even taboos. It gives you more freedom to talk about real things as a core, with the nice, flashy and unique touches that come with the genres.
I’m Dutch, so I don’t know how this is outside of the Netherlands, but it frustrates me most literary genres aren’t being taken seriously. We can pretty much only read novels. It all feels limited and similar. Fantasy and sci-fi can be about things that are just as real as novels can do. The fact that there’s magic, dragons, spaceships or whatever else there might be doesn’t make the story unrealistic. Only the setting is unrealistic but that’s a good thing as it allows you to discover a new universe, set up your own rules and that you can bind the story’s themes to your setting, allowing for more freedom and symbolism.
I’m planning on writing books myself and if I can write in an engaging manner, I hope the next generation doesn’t just have to read novels for school.
Hi, I share your frustration about the fantasy and sci-fi genre not being taken seriously. So I was wondering if you were planning to write stories in Dutch (I'm from the Netherlands as well) and how you view language in fantasy and sci-fi stories. To be honest, I read all books in English (with the exception of when the book is original written in Dutch). And I've found that Dutch is a difficult language for fantasy, imo English sounds and feels more richer and better in these genres. But that could be because most movies/stories are written and published in English.
I’ve always loved good magic systems that have a lot of thought put into them. The magic system I’m working on for a story is based around microorganisms that can change based on the will of the one casting magic, and also the microorganisms connecting to the very soul of people and giving them powers based on who they are. I’d like to think I’m going with scientific reasoning behind many things in my magic system. I try my best to look at how things could work in my world. Magic is the be all end all in my world.
Your videos have helped me so much with making almost everything in my story work together. Your videos are giving me so much motivation to write and I’m struggling to find the exact words to say next to really express how grateful I am for finding and enjoying your videos
Thank you. It makes this all worthwhile to know even one person finds this much value in what I make.
And good luck with the story! A microorganism based system sounds like a really creative one!
@person person well sort of but not really. Midichlorians are more limited, fewer people can use them to their full potential, they have the same bag of tricks as everyone else, etc. In my story, it's magic that has fused to the very soul and gives people magic that would compliment them, and these can evolve as the person matures. An example would be the protagonist, as they go through more fights, an ability that heightens reaction speed, which would be a rank 3 ability out of 4, isn’t enough and they evolve to have a foresight to react to attacks that haven’t been thrown out yet.
Heck yeah, I love lessons about writing magic! It's always a _magical_ experience when you get into it 😉🤣
In all seriousness, I do appreciate magic lessons, since it always helps me innovate my own vision of magic in my stories 🥰
PLEASE Do Everything, Everywhere, All at Once when it comes out!! (watching it in theaters is the best way to watch it). Love your work!!
To make great magic you need one thing, consistency! This can make or break Fantasy/Science Fiction :)
Also NWH was great, just wanted to say
The cardinal sin of writing magic is to break a rule you established earlier. If you give someone a certain power, people will always ask from then on "Why don't they use their magic here?", and if there's no good reason, you've lost your audience.
@@TheCloserLook couldn't have put it better myself :)
@@TheCloserLook that’s what the MCU has constantly done post Dr. Strange lol, including in this movie.
@@EddyTheMartian I mean, of course they wouldn’t just mind wipe a being that threatened to destroy half the universe. That just makes too much sense. The only way was to have him be successful and fix it all after the fact. Otherwise most of this phase wouldn’t exist.
@@TheCloserLook good reason depends. The Owl House hasn't lost fans because episode 8 is a comedy centrist episode with a body swap spell that currently never brought up again
I'd love to see you do a video essay on the His Dark Materials show, there's a lot I think that can be discussed in terms of writing, it's also a pretty solid show overall, also am I the only one still patiently waiting for TCL to reach 1 million subs to see his first screenplay?
Oh I did promise that once, didn't I?
shit
No, you are not the only one waiting, trust me.
@@TheCloserLook Yes, yes you did. 👍🏻
I’m still waiting as well.
@Thecloserlook, your days are numbered.
@@TheCloserLook When you promised that in your video I actually said out loud “Noo don’t do that to yourself!”
Now that said, you could use it as a great learning tool, compare it against your current knowledge, and inspire new writers to keep learning even when they’re frustrated
Note for myself in the future: A great story explores a truth. 8:22
Symbols like in Chamber of Secrets and God of War reveals as a secret yet crucial element to great story telling.
I *adore* the King Midas analogue here.
I think almost anyone concerned with creativity will inevitably wrestle with the reality that not every idea can be worth its weight in gold.
And I think the worst art is produced by those who operate under the presumption that any idea THEIR mind touches IS turned to gold, no matter what.
I really loved this video, brother. I think there should be more videos on exploring why all the old stories work, even through their contrivances.
I think that is something that has been missing the last few years, and is the heart of the problem of why western cinema has been falling off.
I do love mythology, I might find a way to weave it into my videos more.
Thank you for mentioning Brandon Sandersons books, masterpieces truly
Stormlight's one of my all time favs.
@@TheCloserLook same 💯
To be fair though, at the end of No Way Home, Peter kind of looses everything. He doesn't have material wealth, but he also doesn't have any loved ones anymore either. He's basically alone right now. He has nobody. I'd argue that the true meaning of No Way Home's plot is the self sacrifice required to be a hero. Because it's true that he did learn a lesson, but at the cost of loosing everybody that meant anything to him, so it's not like he could learn to appreciate them more, unlike the story of King Midus.
I love the way you talk. If my teachers and professors had narrated a lesson as passionately as you do, I would have absorbed every thing I was ever taught.
I'm humbled you think so highly of my stuff. I've often been told there is no such thing as a boring topic, but there is such a thing as a boring teacher.
7:54 - I don't know if it is a different schooling systems thing, but Greek and Roman mythology was one of the first thing you learned back in my school days.
King Midas' myth, sword of Damocles, Pandora's Box, the tragedy of Oedipus were primary school material.
I am working on a world where basically my magic system is messy, there's multiple forms of magic, gods, and other things and I can't find a way to put it all together :(
My biggest tip is to make sure that everything is simple and easy to digest. Most franchises suffer from giving you too much to digest at one, just keep it connected concise and logical
Do you think you can take some of the forms of magic and connect them to a god?
Hellofutureme have videos on the theme
I guess starting from one basic rule that unites them all helps.
Mana is required, it is the fuel source.
From there you could branch out.
Eg:
Unfocused raw mana is inefficient, painful and weak, it is the most primative form of magic. (many monsters use this)
God's provide a way to process raw mana into specialised mana that allow certain schools of magic and is the second earliest form of magic.
The archmages discovered methods to focus raw mana into usable and more efficient forms without needing to rely on God's. Obviously this puts them at odds with God magicians.
@@idontunderstandmemesplshel6198 a cool example of this is bloodflame magic in elden ring. Basically whenever you use it you are cutting into a formless god and using her blood.
I loved this video. You've a great way to explain and analyze everything, and I'm really glad you've made more content oriented for writers and not mostly for movie fans.
Thanks, I definitely want to double down on more writing related videos going forwards.
@@TheCloserLook glad to read that because I'm a writer myself and I really enjoy this kind of content, writing is pure freedom where you can create whole universes inside a drop of water.
Your videos are so fantastic because of how effectively you lay out and deconstruct everything in the video for idiots like me to understand. Genuinely some of the most valuable content on youtube, it's incredible that I don't need to pay for this.
I'm humbled you think so highly of my videos. Thank you.
I loved what you said about the most captivating stories being the ones that tell us truths and inspire us to live better. My favorite TV show is Adventure Time. Yes it's dumb and silly and colorful and it aired on cartoon network, but even as an adult watching that show helps align me how i want to live my life. The ever present themes of contentment and love that are throughout make it my favorite show of all time, as opposed to something like spongebob (which i also enjoy, just not nearly as much) which is just colorful and dumb and funny..
The rules to my magic are as follows:
Celestials that inhabit the physical plane have access to abilities that can change elements of our universe, of that which it consists of, that we can't, those being Space, Time, Matter, and Energy. They can create matter out of nothing, whereas by our understanding of matter, everything is made from something. There is a finite amount of matter that we can use but a celestial can produce more out of sheer will, as an example of their ability.
It's fairly free form but there are certain actions that must never be performed. Doing so would unravel the very multiverse they inhabit. You can travel through time, you can even slow it down to a point of near complete stillness; but it must never, under any circumstances, be reversed, as time only flows in one direction. Just felt like sharing as rules to magic systems are fascinating to explore.
I didn’t expect NWH to be on the list of great magic
Same… especially considering how world-breaking the magic is in the grander scheme of the MCU. Though in the way being discussed in the video I totally get it. Was the most Spiderman-like story the MCU has done ngl.
Greatly enjoyed the video, but am I the only one that noticed how excited he sounded?
I would be staggered if you managed to find that even a third of people watching this video didn't know who King Midas was by name before watching it.
Agreed! Mistborn is amazing! The magic system and how it grows or our understanding changes throughout the series.... And it all just fits together so well.
There two types of people.
The ones who spend weeks to months to years painstakingly crafting a complex magic system and closing the hundreds of plotholes it creates. And then there's most of Hollywood, who have this to say:
"Ooh, magic! The Do-Whatever-I-Want Button!"
And the "oh snap this is a twenty year old franchise with like 300 writers and noone can contain that mess anymore" kinda thing lol. Looking at you Elder Scrolls, Naruto and stuff... everything is magic and it can do anything, but everyone always does magic differently, confusing even the hardest of fans.
You can be really proud of this essay, it’s brilliant, well done.
Huge amount of work on the editing too, matching image to narration, very impressive.
Yes! I needed this for a story
Good luck with it!
@@TheCloserLook Thanks 😁
This is actually so inspiring! I’ve been a bit on the fence over my story, because while it does have a (in my opinion) really quite nice magic system, I simply lacked the evidence to say that it was TRULY necessary. Now it’s going to also carry a message, thus (maybe) trucking it into a somewhat more enjoyable experience.
So glad Brando Sando is finally getting the mainstream love he deserves.
Your point about confronting our fears to feel relief when you talked about Harry Potter is something i really needed to hear, dealing with depression
Sorry to hear that Simon. Good luck in getting through it.
If this helps further, JK Rowling was suffering from depression while she was plotting the series during the 90s (and she was dealing with a lot: mother dying young, failed marriage, being a single mother to a young daughter, and poverty). The dementors are even supposed to be a metaphor for depression personified.
As an individual who's developing a magic system I just defined a few simple rules. There is conjure and manipulation, healing is relative to your intelligence and magical prowess and there are no deus ex machinas. Magic is a utility, not a solve all.
Making restrictions has made it alot more fun to work around those rules in creative ways without breaking them.
💯💯💯
Magic is the ultimate metaphor, that's why they're so great at delivering deep messages because it's abstract ideas given form through it.
You managed to insight me with this revelation while watching this, and i think I'm gonna need to rethink my entire system now.
This is going to be really helpful for my world :)
I think something interesting that supports the point is that the more lines Peter tries asking for, the more unstable the spell gets.
The magic in Dr.Strange is amazing and for me, Dr.Strange is a great film, top ten for sure.
Well, I don't have any magic in the book I'm writing but you made me realize something.
There's a part where my main characters make an improbable escape and I wasn't confortful with it, but by adding a consequence to pay (like Peter Parker's identity) it will seem less deus-ex-macchina.
Thus, that improbable escape will now cost the life of one of the main characters (he was going to die later but I can rewrite that).
really part of No Way Home was Strange's fault for not sitting down to have a discussion with Peter before casting the spell
Everyone always made fun of Peter for being so young and thus immature, why would a legit medical doctor not talk about the risks and rules of something like that with him? That sounds stupid... Doctors, probably especially the magic ones love that shit....
The other thing is that Peter didn't even do anything wrong besides being impulsive. It was basically a total accident, because the point was that Mysterio's goons literally ruined his life and the spell could have worked just fine.
Idk if you watch Re:zero but it does pretty much the same thing you’re describing in this video. Maybe not all the magic in the show is used like that, but the main character’s Return By Death ability is a really good example of what you’re describing I think. Every time he dies he returns back in time to a previous “save point.” So this magic in some way is what forces him to grow as a person and so far in the series he’s learned several important and invaluable lessons. Because of this power he’s forced to grow unless he repeats the suffering over and over. And what’s funny is I don’t think this specific ability will be explained fully in the future but to me that makes it all the more special.
The same happens with Ron in the forbidden forest, as he confronts his biggest fear, spiders (mostly being dragged there by Harry of course), he is rewarded a free escape tool in the form of the magical car coming back to save them. It’s not a perfect example, but I think it still works quite well
I feel like you would really like the webserial Worm. Not only is it the best superhero story I've ever experienced, the way in which it uses it's power system is truly breathtaking. It manages to be wholly original while also giving a depth to standard superhero powers that I've never quite seen before.
I'll say this Dr.Strange in No way home was really the victim of Disney writing, the power levels are off, the first spell felt okay because of the runes but man just casts a universal memory wipe easily without the runes at the end..... I personally couldn't accept it , no consistency with the characters power levels and just used as a plot device
Such an interesting point about Midas being remembered over so many other stories. Stories that express something true are always more satisfying than random flights of fancy (like most movies).
Here's my take: If Peter was wise, it wouldn't be him letting the runes complete as intended, it'd be him not immediately resorting to magic to gaslight the entire universe just because his friend and girlfriend can't get accepted into college.
As for Midas: His mistake wasn't making the wish, it was what he wished in particular. Dionysus was like "Dude, you sure about that? Don't you want to try another wish?"
Yeah, Midas' wish taken literally was a bigger problem, also reminds me of how wishes worked in Interstate 60
Well, I finally did it. I clicked the audible link after so many videos. Congratulations on breaking me, and cheers to a smarter future me.
People who say nwh is so good just because of nostalgia they are so wrong. I believe one of the most important things about story is to have a struggling protagionist. Peter struggles a whole lot.
And i belive that even more important it is the presence of a plot, that movie doesnt have it
Mist born is fantastic reading the magic system is just so brilliant everything in it is comprehensiable
People talk about the phoenix plot device in the chamber of secrets all of the time. Not only does the phoenix come in and gouge out the basilisks eyes, but how did it get down there in the first place? What happened to the wall of rocks that ron couldnt get through? And then after harry gets bit by the basilisk, the phoenix happens to have healing tears that are the only thing that can cure basilisk venom? Then the phoenix just scoops them all up and flys out of there? I mean, im a huge harry potter fan, but damn. That book should be called Harry Potter and The Chamber of The Plot Device 😂
Symbolic storytelling is one of the many directions a story can go, not the be-all end-all.
Love the King Arthur images.
This is my favorite video so far I love this analysis and validating the need for magical stories
Thanks, glad you liked it!
Since I one day hope to making and writing in the film and to industry all of these tips and tricks in all your videos truly are a world of help to me thank you🙏
No problem, Brello. Best of luck with building your career!
I don't know if it counts but Fullmetal Alchemist brotherhood also uses magic (well alchemy) in a great way... The rule of equivalent exchange established once is never broken and that is one of the reasons it's so great...
Great video 🌸🌸🍀✨
2:59, Nickelodeon’s animated children’s television series Danny Phantom ended its second season with the episode Reality Trip whose plot was driven by the title character’s secret identity being exposed but which ended with exactly what you just described happening
Really interesting ideas here, which I agree with strongly. I really like the narrative descriptions you touch on, but I'd also like to raise some criticism / some things which the "brilliant" NWH magic did:
Basically, why on Earth does Doctor Strange have a massively different power level depending on the movie? Like are you seriously telling me that the man who defeated Doormamu by literal force of will can't simply handle a teenager? Really? Maybe you would've thought he could've planned this out a bit?
Again, I still agree that it serves as a great setup for a cathartic ending, but it was massively overshadowed for me by the ridiculous "logic can be what we want it to be" moments in the film.
I think you simply look at the result of that fight more than fight itself.
In the fight itself at start Strange used a simple move he used for everyone but Spider sense got in the way.
Later he used mirror dimension to both have more control over him since he knows more about it and after a certain point he wins. He neither had to hurt Peter and got the box.
That's where this critisizm baffles me because Strange won and he thought Peter can't do anything now.
I mean what anybody expect Peter to do in this situation.
Accept defeat?
Simply try to attack Strange?
Well he did neither he looked at his surroundings and used it to do an attack let me tell you no one can simply predict.
That's why he won.
Strange already thought he won and his underestimatation on him became bigger and Peter did a move no one can thought of.
It both estabilished more grounded rules to mirror dimension in a way too instead of making it a simple spectacle. Which is really cool.
And about Dormamu. Strange never beat him. He outsmarted him sure but if your idea is "If he can outsmart Dormamu no one can outsmart him" well then you are wrong. Espacily when what Strange did was a lot more simple than what Peter did.
@@ghosty2548 You're right about Strange's powers, but there are still some mayor plot-holes concerning the magic that are really bothersome.
Strange had no intention of seriously harming Peter. He’s holding back the entire fight.
Most of the time Strange fights in the mirror dimension, he fought by twisting it to suit his needs. Peter using the apparent randomness of the dimension against him was something new. Not to mention entirely unexpected from a kid that was put into a situation like this for the first time.
Strange underestimated him , he was surprised at how Peter could control his astral form
Saying he defeated Dormamu isn’t quite what happened.
Strange wasnt trying to harm Peter....
He didn't really defeat Dormammu...
You are wrong on both points.BTW Spider-Man is not just a teenager..
It's funny, but I took away precisely the opposite conclusion you perhaps intended.
You see, I enjoy the social sciences very deeply and passionately, so I've spent a lot of time studying them. I've looked into the history of moral philosophy, studied cultures ancient to modern, read literature from different places and eras, read up about the development of schools of political thought...
And I have to say, the idea of "universal moral truths" is, ironically, not in itself a universally held belief. It's an invention, largely of the Modernist school of thought that sought to produce singular grand narratives with which to frame the world... Grand narratives that always just so happened to center on European values and European history and European culture, tidily brushing under the rug everything that didn't quite fit.
If anything, the case being made here is greater proof of Simon Blackburn's argument for moral quasi-realism - the notion that morality isn't a materially real thing, but people behave as if it is; as it is with all social constructs. I believe that to be descriptively true across all of human history. And if moral "truths" constantly have to be backed up by reality warping in order to manifest physically in a narrative, maybe what it really means is that moral ideals are just that: Ideals. Things that exist in people's minds, that can only be physically real if the supernatural exists to alter the laws of the universe for their sake.
As for specifics, though... No Way Home is a poor example for any moral argument. After all, Peter in the MCU... never needed to learn the lesson Uncle Ben teaches most Spider-Men, because he already knew it from day one. From the minute we meet him, he's established as someone who has done nothing but try to help others with the best intentions. He was never selfish, nor was he ever truly irresponsible in the sense of wasting his power to better the world through inaction; rather, his flaws were that he was impulsive and insecure, as many teenagers often are. The lessons he needed were to have self-confidence and to slow down and think things through instead of leaping before he looked. And while we got to that eventually, it just doesn't follow that he was trying to get an easy way out of the moral consequences of some wrongdoing.
Why? Because he didn't do anything wrong beforehand. Explicitly, in no uncertain terms, he was the victim of a mass harassment campaign perpetrated by 1) a literal gang of tech-savvy criminals, 2) a far-right reactionary propagandist (come on, JJJ is basically just Alex Jones in the MCU, it's clear as day), and 3) the callousness and cruelty of the court of public opinion. He was the victim of, basically, doxxing and targeted harassment. For what? Trying to do the right thing and help people. Being selfless. Being a hero.
The idea that his actions afterward were in any way morally transgressive is ludicrous. At worst it was a manifestation of Peter's flaws - insecurity and impulsivity leading to panic and poorly thought out decisions. Decisions that the Sorcerer Supreme, the one living human who understands causality and time the best out of anyone in the universe, should have talked a scared teenager through. Strange's entire movie was about learning the consequences of messing with time and seeing magic as a quick fix for personal gain. His entire character from his debut onward revolved around the fact that he of all people has been through infinite hells and back to gain an intimate understanding of causal relationships. This wasn't Peter's lesson to learn, and the one whose lesson it was learned it thousands of times over in his own movie. Strange should have known better, because he did know better. It's another Last Jedi Luke scenario: The one very specific thing an older mentor character should have known, because it was the entire heart of their personal growth arc, is the one thing they dropped the ball on.
But you know what? Even the attempts to mess with the spell were ultimately driven by Peter's concern for other people over his own well-being. He didn't go running for a wizard because HE got rejected. He went running because his friends got rejected. Half of the reason he wanted to change the spell was because he was irrationally afraid of the emotional distress it MIGHT cause his aunt or his friends, and maybe a little bit of that was the perfectly reasonable hope that he wouldn't get screwed for once, that he could get to keep just a bit of happiness from having friends and family and a girlfriend he can be honest around. What's wrong with that?
At the end of the day, Peter got punished for wanting to do the right thing. The only lesson here is that life as Spider-Man sucks and takes everything away from Peter Parker, by hook or by crook, and yet he does it anyway.
Also, Arthurian and Greek myth? Pretty bad sources of moral lessons here. The whole thing about cursed women in Greek mythology has been a (fairly explicitly) misogynistic trope for ages; the idea that strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is a good basis for a system of government is ridiculous; and the gods mainly punish people for the terrible sin of... defying them, or daring to be better than them at anything (Arachne, anyone?), or pissing them off because the gods are often pretty terrible, selfish bastards who act out of ego and spite.
If it's supposed to speak to some "moral truth" that the rightful ruler of Britain is a monarch whose rule is legitimized by the inherent validity of bloodline and magic... That leads to some very harmful conclusions. As it did when Japan decided its emperor's divine right extended to dominion of the world in the 1940s. As it has every time a ruler invoked the divine right of kings.
Yes thank you. As a scholar of history, NOTHING is a 'universal truth.' Everything is contextual.
@@kat8559 Damn right. That's why I'm not a bloody modernist.
I suspect my perspective is rather... leftward of the general audience here, but acknowledging the diversity of historical perspectives and philosophies is a thing that was taught to me from my very first undergraduate sociology courses. It's necessary to avoid the fallacious nature of ethnocentrism and make us aware of our implicit biases.
One thing I probably should have elaborated on further: The idea that morality can be derived from intuitive feelings humans are presumed to share is one that has unfortunately led to a staggering number of historical tragedies. Intuitions are informed by societal conditioning and a lot of evolutionary baggage that's often outright dangerous - human tribalism is "natural", as a consequence of evolutionary drives, but "us versus them" has never been a healthy standard for human societies. It also often leads to the conclusion that people who experience the world differently are inherently less moral, an idea that has been used to discriminate against the neurodivergent for far longer than the term has existed.
Amazing video👏👏. Not only have you explained why magic is used in fantasy and how to use them well but you also explained the importance of a story's depth
6:15 The original version of this myth doesn't even have his daughter exist. In fact, it's far more comedic, because the god he asks for a boon is Dionysus, god of drunken revelry. A god who is hesistant because EVEN THE EMBODIMENT OF THE DRUNKEN PARTIER KNOWS WHAT A BAD IDEA THIS IS. Midas isn't so much greedy as he is dumb as hell.
It's one of the few examples I know of where the original myth is LESS dark than the modern tellings.
Really? That's intersting, I love the contrast of even the party god knowing it's a bad idea.
But that only presents an even more interesting question, because why did the myth evolve from that to being the one it is today? Maybe that version didn't capture the truth perfectly enough, so the story gradually changed as it was retold until it ended up being the refined story we know today.
@@TheCloserLook The core idea of the myth remains ("pursuing wealth at the cost of all else will lose you everything else"), but in the more modern telling it's framed as a tragedy. My guess is it's to make the message of the potential consequences clearer, tho personally I prefer the funny version. The only consequences he gets in the original myth is needing to run to Dionysus for help and bathing in a river until his powers get washed away.
King Midas was originally a well-meaning but dumb, comedic character; he did a dumb thing, got consequences for it, and begged Dionysus for help (and apparently the myth is used to explain a river filled with electrum, which is a detail I really like). And then in a later myth proceeded to insult Apollo and get donkey ears for his trouble...
@@TheCloserLook Or perhaps... It was because people wanted to impose more rigid moral beliefs that were created over time, beliefs that were historically used to reinforce the idea of social hierarchies as natural (mortal and god, commoner and king, woman and man, and so on). As such, older myths that stemmed from other traditions, in this case likely the philosophical school of hedonism, would have been syncretized and adapted to a new religious school of thought...
But that's just speculation on my part, building on the things I've studied about religious transformation over time and the use of moral philosophy as a tool to instill obedience to authority (as with Plato and the concept of the Noble Lie). It's just a thought to consider.
12:08
-The Closer Look: "I implore that you loose your social life"
-Me: "What social life?"
Fair enough 😂
Never thought I would agree to someone loving HP's magic but here we are.
Minor sidenote: Fawkes and his magic healing tears were set up before in the book. When I read it the first time as a child, I was constantly wondering why the damn phoenix wouldn't heal HP.
Yeah, that's a fair point, and because of that it wasn't a true deus ex machina. My bad.
Speaking as someone who writes as a hobby (I can't call myself a writer because as of yet I can't seem to force myself to finish the stories) I've worked on and off on projects for years, turning them over in my head writing and rewriting them cause they didn't fit right and then I'd get to a point where I'd say "That's what I was going for" cause it clicks at that point, I just know for certain this is what needs to happen. And then I'd turn to another part of the project and work on that, leave it, come back, start working again, another piece clicks, etc. And then I have a lightning bolt moment where I realize this message or theme I have inadvertantly created that I wasn't even intending to has worked it's way into various parts of my story. And I look at it and wonder "Does this story have a mind of it's own and I'm just telling it?"
I've been working on one story for easily half my life (it's gone through a lot of changes) and I only just realized a few days ago "Holy shit, one of my themes is the regret, guilt, and self forgiveness (which I did not intend), and it's beautifully weaved into these five separate aspects that I've been working on at completely separate times." I've also realized at separate times that I've inadvertently created messages about faith, about identity, about accountability, etc. All completely unintentional, the building blocks that led to them just fit right. And if that's happening to me, someone who can't even call themselves an amateur writer, I'd be shocked if all writers of great works truly conceptualized how their different choices worked on so many levels. I'm sure there are some things that are intentional in every project, but I don't think you could possibly think of all of it consciously
This is the reason why I get really irritated at books or movies that are trying to push an agenda, first and foremost. If you're serious about your work and trying to make a good story/characters first and foremost, any messages that are deep and meaningful to you are going to follow naturally. But when you start with the message, not only is it usually totally obvious to the audience who then rolls their eyes and either assents to or yells in expectation of being lectured, it also usually leads to a story that can't stand on it's own when you take out the message
The tale of Midas shouldn't his clothes have been turned to gold as soon as hr got his powers?
Shouldn't thr whole building turn to gold as soon as he steped on the ground? Shouldn't all of Earth be gold?
It's a fair point to be honest.
Perhaps the magical transmutation ability only extends to his hands (or even just fingertips). It's never explicitly said in the story(ies) but it would be consistent with the results he experiences. That would prevent the scenario you (very logically) laid out.
I would say most people automatically recognize the name King Midas/the Midas Touch. But a poll would be interesting.
Do people really not remember the name of King Midas?
When he said but you remember the story of everything turns to gold my jaw dropped
As much as I agree with everything else I gotta' call out the Chamber of Secrets plot contrivance thing, can't name any off the topic of my head but I've seen a bunch of people complain about the phoenix stuff, so there are definitely people who didn't like it XD
Oh really? Lol, nevermind.
But yeah, JK rowling could have probably laid a stronger forshadowing for some of those story beats. It wouldn't have hurt to do so.
@@TheCloserLook Definitely. There’s like one quick scene that exists solely to set up Fawkes and his tears and it feels so cheap and lame.
@@TheCloserLook oh damn I did not expect a response, that's neat. Love your videos mate : )
Ok, though the roosters all being killed is noticed as is Ginny panicking about the chicken feathers on her. And the Basilisk is described as fleeing from a rooster’s crow. And that’s before Harry’s battle with it. So the extent to which it’s un-foreshadowed is exaggerated. And Dumbledore introduces Fawkes while mentioning the healing powers of Phoenix Tears.
i love Tom's peter and his growning as a character, we first see him in civil war just months after losing uncle and while he already learn from his Uncle Ben's phrase "when you can do the things that i can but you don't, and then the bad things happen? they happen because of you" and how he should use his powers to help people around him, but what's amazing is that he didn't fully understand it yet and it took the lost of his aunt for him to actually learn that he must always do the right thing, even if it means losing everything
Another great magic system, transcending the screen to the page, is Witch Hat Atelier. Instead of saying the spells or using wands, they're drawn. Depending on how perfect the outer circle is when you complete it, what stuff surrounds the basic sigil, etc, a variety of effects can be achieved. It gets really creative with some of them (though really I just wanted an excuse to gush about a manga I love. The mangaka also has a history with Marvel fun fact!)
The reason myths all contain fantasy elements is because that's part of the definition of a myth. There are plenty of stories from the past that show a moral or universal concept without fantasy elements. However, these are defined as folklore or legends. Being supernatural is part of the classification. It's like saying that all mammals are warm-blooded because because all the cold-blooded mammals died off, rather than that just being part of the definition of a mammal.
No Way Home is interesting for me because I have many logistical issues with its ending (Does Peter still exist legally? Was his documentation erased? Has any video footage of him interacting with people been edited? Are those schoolbooks at the end there because he has to retake his GED because he lost all of his records? How did he rent the apartment without those records?), and yet I don't care all that much. Because the ending is still a bold move that teaches a good lesson and I respect that. This is why every creative writing teacher puts more importance on themes than plot; a plot can make total logical sense, but still be unmemorable without a powerful message.
Hard agree on this. Of course it's important to have rules that make sense, but I firmly believe too many people get so focused on having verisimilitude, they forget to even think about how the magic is serving the larger story.
It's like a gardener being so focused on making each blade of grass perfectly placed, they never stop to realise the overall structure of their garden is a mess.
I would recommend the channel new rock stars.
@@masroorahmadbani1712 why
@@theroyaljules39 he analysis movies frame by frame and can solve plot holes in the movie by looking at the details. New rockstars along with screencrush and the Canadian lad do these sort of things along with theories.
Wow I genuinely didn't like chamber of secrets when I was younger because it absolutely felt like that phoenix came out of no where to save the day. I just figured that millions of people adored the series and wouldn't wanna hear the negative opinion of a kid.
I'm so glad you gave me a new perspective!!
Wait, you think that people don't recognize the name of King Midas?
The simplest fix would be to have everyone forget Mysterio and everything he said. This would solve all problems for Peter.
You believe very few knew king Midas? I highly doubt that.
(Based on nothing, except I have a feeling people have been told this story in school like I did and I never forgot his name)
Oh many people definitely know the name, I just said MOST people don't know the name, but they remember the premise of the myth nonetheless.
I definitely think most people that know the myth also know the name
I love when you do these kinds of essays. I learned so much! Please more like this.
Thanks, i will!
Peter could have just asked that everyone forgets about Mysterio and what he did. Problem solved. But yeah it's a great movie.
A closer look, if you haven’t watched Everything Everywhere at Once, please do so. You will not regret it, it has finally solved the age long debate of what my favorite movie is. I never could have solved it until now. It needs a full video, it deserves it
Your explanation of harry potter and how these well written stories have meanings deeper than the writer consciously sees is spot on. Great writing leaves certain questions unanswered for the imagination to wonder but also gives answers that have layers to them!
4:21 Yes. But have you heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise? (It's not a story the Jedi would tell you)
nah i knew king midas
Magic is a symbolic representation of taking accountability
I'm not sure about this. I think Fawkes blinding the basilisk *and* healing Harry's wound is questionable storytelling. The ending of Chamber of Secrets never really impressed me, in the books or the movies. I'd even suggest that the reason nobody complained about that ending in the movie is because it was faithful to the book, and fans appreciated the accuracy.
To clarify: I'm not saying it's terrible. I never particularly *disliked* the ending of Chamber of Secrets, either. But this encounter with the basilisk always felt quite underwhelming to me compared to other climaxes in the series (and certainly compared to climaxes in other movies), and maybe this double whammy of deus ex machina (which I've never really acknowledged before) is the reason for that lukewarm response.
I think if I re-wrote the scene, Fawkes would still come to Harry's assistance (illustrating that bravery has its rewards), but Harry would be more proactive in defeating the beast. Harry and Fawkes would be more of a team, as opposed to Fawkes pulling Harry's butt out of the fire on two separate occasions.
But, hey, who am I to question J.K. Rowling? She's a pretty good writer. lol
And I always enjoy your videos and respect your opinions. In fact, I agree with your opinions 99% of the time. I'm only commenting now because this is one of the rare occasions when our opinions don't perfectly align. Keep up the great work.
In the book, both Fawkes’s ability to fight the Basilisk and his eventual healing are foreshadowed. In the movie, the latter is foreshadowed though I don’t remember if the former were. It’s not actually a Deus Ex Machina
@@matityaloran9157 That's fair enough. But even if those helpful interventions from Fawkes are technically not deus ex machina, they still feel a little too *convenient* to me, personally.
There's a reason that I've never found that encounter particularly exciting or memorable.
It's similar in nature to Persus fighting Medusa in Clash of the Titans, and yet the Medusa fight is more suspenseful, more dramatic, in my opinion -- probably because Perseus has to overcome Medusa's petrifying gaze using his own ingenuity.
The Medusa scene is wrought with tension, but there's a feeling of disappointment, almost, as Fawkes simply swoops in and neutralises the basilisk's greatest power, the power that had been built up throughout the entire story.
@@DavidM_10 That’s an entirely legitimate critique. That the protagonist should overpower the antagonist by finding the answer through what he himself is capable of. I have a similar critique of the Lion Turtle resolution in Avatar: The Last Airbender in contrast to something like Aladdin wherein Aladdin realizes that Jafar is just as dependent on the Genie as he was and as such as reluctant to give him up and uses that to outwit Jafar. So I can accept that as a legitimate critique.
life is a magic i do believe is the best written piece of magic i never read. i just live it. great magic needs no writer, it makes his own rules.
but if you want to write about magic, you need a hero who like to plan and loves control and knowledge. a good mage is alwyas a good villain, but its rare to see a good hero be a mage. a mage who knows to use magic and you are aware of magic, good magic, works...there is no fight.
I’ve been watching you for a while now, and I can’t express how much I appreciate you for all the great content you provide us with! thanks for inspiring me to start my own channel ❤️
Yep, this channel explains films and TV with so much detail and clarity.
I was just thinking I wanted another closer look video!
thank you
No problem, I hope you like it!