🛠️DIY Open Baffle Speakers Part 3: Butcher blocks
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ธ.ค. 2022
- Using Lii-audio Fast-15 and W15 drivers. This might be my favourite build so far.
#diyaudio #speakers #hyped #audiophile #stereo
Thank you Lii-song Canada for making this experience possible.
lii-song.ca/
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I've been building stuff non-stop since retiring about a decade ago. Never gets tired. Thanks for feeding my addiction.😁
agreed and same with me
Any addiction that makes us build and think, cant be unhealthy right? 😎
I have to be careful what I say or I could be ridiculed in the “Previous Comments” section. But seriously, the butchers blocks look wonderful. Most OB’s with plain MDF panels look just plain ugly, but these definitely have the WAF factor. I am watching this project with great anticipation, and I really want to see where this experiment ends up. The last time I followed one of your pursuits I bought a Musical Paradise MP-P2 phono stage, and am still loving it, even without any upgrades, as yet. Keep em coming!!
Its a great phono stage!! I loved every minute of it.
Salud al Mescal! And those speakers are beautiful!!
They are!
Amazing
Looking good. Butcher block is a nice choice. One side baffle also a good choice in my experience.
Those are huge! Really beautiful speakers!! Looks like they're calling me! :)
They are!
Nice work 👍
Thanks 👍
I keep thinking that open baffle F12s run full range with just a small capacitor in series with a tweeter (in a pseudo first-order crossover) for each speaker would sound AMAZING. Maybe use a cap value that rolled off the tweeter in the 10-12kHz. As there isn't much music above 12kHz, the quality of the tweeter would not need to be exceptional. That would also work well for the 15s. Have you considered trying this?
Nelson Pass wrote an article about this (including how to approximate the tube amp sound with a solid state amplifier) entitled, "Current Source Amplifiers and Sensitive Full Range Drivers."
Yes sir!! Still am. I just keep getting distracted.
@@hificave Nice. Very excited to hear your results!!
Noob here binge watching your vids on this build, i'll watch them all again in full when I get time. What are your thoughts on F15 W15 combo with crossover driven by an Ice power 1200as2 class D ? cheers. Thanks for the vids.
Its what i do now.
300b tubes for f15 (full range)
Class d with crossover for w15 (30hz to 90hz)
I'm gonna follow you down the rabbit hole I guess. The fast-15s and w-15s should arrive in a few weeks. Using Lowe's for the butcherblock/countertop and geez I hope there are no issues when I start cutting. Going with a QSC CX-302 for bass comp. It has a high damping factor (>500) so it should control the w-15s pretty well at 4 ohms.
Subbed you.
Cool!! They sound better if you isolate each baffle section instead of them sharing a baffle.
@@hificave A small gap I assume...between the two. Thanks!
@@vrusimov yes a gap helps. Or extra weight added to the top and bottom sections via bracing.
If you already have an iPhone, invest $50 in a Sennheiser Ambeo and make some binaural demos. All you need is some copyright free music. I've made a few recordings so far of my new Tekton Moabs, if you click on my profile. I'm not a pro TH-camr or anything, so please excuse the crudity of my videos. But so far, the recordings are pretty true to life and they handle the lower frequencies well. My only complaint with the Ambeo is it records very quiet. It's probably tuned for live events.
Anyway, your system looks awesome! I'm going to look and see if you've done anything on your room treatment. I think that's the next frontier for me.
Thanks Zack! Room is treated. Strongly recommended. Not sure Sennheiser makes a quality 50$ microphone these days, but I will check. Thx
@@hificave I bought my Ambeo in the last few months. I've only had my Moabs since the end of September. It may not be an end game recording rig, but it is an astonishing value worth playing with, hands down.
I can see you've treated your room. I meant, I wanted to see of you've done any videos on that. I'm starting to look into what I can do on a modest budget and without installing anything too invasive. There's so much conflicting information out there, that it's hard to pick a direction and go. That's why it would good to see real world experiences from people who aren't selling a product ;)
Really beautiful pattern for a set of speakers -- great idea man! Hey, I'm curious, what happened to your Tekton Perfect Set? I'd love to hear a little comparison between the Tektons and this current rendition of your Lii open baffles.
Its been so long since I sold the tektons, it would be hard to give you an accurate comparison. One thing I am still sure of, no comparison, soundstage, imaging, on the lii open baffles is better by a big step.
@@hificave Sweet, thanks so much! You may be the only one on Earth who has had extensive listening time with each speaker. This is highly valuable info for me, as I heavily value accurate and deep imaging, and a wide, open soundstage (when called for). Cheers!
The Butcher block tables are beautiful! I plan to keep watching all your projects for awhile before I make my next move. Are you using an active crossover to low pass to the W15? Are you running the Fast 15's straight from the tube amp?
No crossovers yet. Biamp, gain control. Solid state class ab for bass driver 30hz to ~3000hz
Full range fast15 on 211 tube amp running wide open, but with the height of the drivers it rolls off faster then it should+ a 6db (ish) increase on the tube amp, i dont feel any gaps in the mids because of frequency overlap and cancellation. But if I lower the db of the tube amp to low then I get issues.
@@hificave thank you
Just wanted to say how much I love your channel and appreciate you. Your sense of humor is much appreciated with today's Internet trolls.
What are some OB speakers you can currently buy under $2500 that you can easily recommend?
Thank you sir!!
Diy. :-) havent tried many “commercial” ones. Except at shows. But I am curious to try the following ones:
Pure audio project (dying to hear these)
Spatial audio lab
But both are over 2500$ sorry.
@@hificave Have you heard any of the Canadian made Tri-Art OB speakers? What were your impressions? I really wonder how they compare against the Pure Audio Duet or the Spatial M or X.
@@franknelissen8041 only at shows briefly. Cant give a proper opinion.
well done indeed! you are inspiring me! Curious asto why you use the Fast 15 and not a Silver 10?
THAT was the initial plan
@@hificave naahh..you should use w15 + pt10..and call it loicnidas 😅
@@mohdpazli im waiting for the platinum-15. :-)
@@hificave nice 👍👍
Open baffle speakers are not something I have owned, and same goes for full range drivers. Some designs add tweeters (Zu & Spatial Audio & Magnepan & ... ?) and some are a small driver in a transmission line (Pearl Acoustics); but large drivers in open baffle are distinct from both of those.
In your experience, which configuration is better. The one of this type f-15 with w-15, or the one of the lionidas that includes an s-10 and a w-15, in addition to a crossover. Although, lionidas with p-10 and a w-15 could be surprising too. I ask you why it is my 2023 project to have an open baffle lii... Greetings from Chile.
Both bring a different experience. Silver10 and platinum will up the air and the resolution and satisfy the need for refinement and “high end” feel in the sound with very transparent effect and sharp image more similar to having tweeters, but they absolutey need a w15 to fill in the lower mids and bass in open baffle. The f series (f15, fast15) I find are more soft in their imaging, but make for a larger scale sound. Some may feel like objects are exaggerated, but I find it more immersive. But its all a question of preference. If done with a baffle like decware’s, you will get great mids and bass, if paired with the right amps.
@@hificave So grateful for this info. I have a pair of F15's and Fast 8's. I also have a set of Liionidas crossovers. I have W15's on order and am struggling with which way to go here. I Amy buy Silver 10's but thinking based on this I may stick with the F15's. Again, thanks!
Did you have issues with splitting, or other structural coherency of the butcher block. I am looking at Lowe’s and Home Depot, and there as a lot of reviews that state this. Just wondering.😊
I got lucky. But yeah, I seen one cut and structurally i side was not solid
What is the name of that amp on the Right corner at 2:06? It looks like a head for a car engine... that thing is HUGE!
Diy class A amp.
Beautiful. Bass so deep make ya grandma freak. What do you mean by “ running two coils”?
The w15 has two coils in the speaker. Two sets of speaker terminals. Running both provides stronger and more control of the driver.
By having two coils running, the driver control is so great, that it becomes more detailed up to 3000hz. Feels like there is less bass slam tho, because its less fat in the bass due to all the other frequencies as running 1 coil. But this changes if the w15 is only receiving sub 120hz, then its two coils for the win in bass, deep, heavy punch, speed and grounded presence.
i would do the same set up but with one fast 15" would i need a wing? thanks for any help wheelchair, Larry
Wing depends on your room. Try with, try without..
So taking what you learned from your DIY open baffle video with the MDF, do you think these big rectangles are the best shape or are you hearing any glare or lack of focus? Would some curve like the Betsy or Zen Master be an improvement?
Also curious how high off the floor the FF15s are in these?
Its a good question. The only thing I feel is better with the rounded “betsy” type baffle in the past was the width of the soundstage which was a bit wider. The f15s are very high in this config. They dont dig much under 80hz with this config. But I wanted the w15 to fill that range and wanted to maximize the detail in mids and highs by making the phase plug at my ear height of the f15.
@@hificave Thanks, that makes sense. I'm currently using f15s in a Decware style big baffle and want to add W15s to make a single baffle like you have for both the F15 and W15. I share your concern about the level of the phase plug on the F15 and squeezing both large cones into one baffle getting things at the proper height. As always, thanks again for taking the time to reply and for the work you do making your videos!
Try add in the silver 10 or platinum 10 at the center. One 10 inch. Two 15 inch
I am looking at doing something with a silver 10 in these baffles, but I am testing it right now, when im done I will share my experience.
Silver 10 is too bright for me .
I currently use super tweeter + fast 8 + fast 15 + w15
If you're your looking to your baffle resonating issue, look up No-Rez from GR research. It will stop your resonating issues in its tracks. That's what I used on my open baffle setup. If you're interested in some pictures, just reply to this with a way to send you pictures
Resonating issue is gone now that i added felt to the metal of the driver, but I am curious. Send me some pics, hificave at gmail
What is the minimum wattage to drive these beautiful speakers? What seems to middle wattage
Tried with 4 watts and with 100. My favorite is 8 to 20 for the top full range, and lots of current for the bass driver.
@@hificave thanks that is right at the GM70 Set Amp I have been looking at. Now I may have to build. :)
You really seem to like these f-15 drivers so I have a question. I've had a pair of these and I found them extremely colored in the vocals. They always sounded like someone singing threw a piece of paper. Have you heard this and did you resolve this by any of the mods you mentioned? I've also heard a box design with their 10" flagship with the same issue so it's not only the pair of drivers I own that do this I believe. Love to hear from you
That is a loaded question. Many factors to consider in terms of synergy and execution. But Its interesting, a friend of mine feels the same way you do when he heard all variations of these. I think its the full range driver character that is probably not for everyone. I think, its the lack of a tweeter (aka having a small driver with a very light material creating high frequencies) which for some people is a deal breaker. The tweeter creates this sharpness in resolution and adds that fine filtered effect which is not there with a full range driver of this size. When I used an 8 inch full ange driver my friend said it was much better but not as good for him as using a tweeter. But I dont personally find vocals sound like they are through a piece of paper, so let me ask you, do you hear any differences when you toe them right at your ear? Are they low to the ground or is the phase plug in the middle near your seated shoulders in terms of height? Curious if these change that perception or not at all?
If the drivers are mounted on the front of the baffle there HAS to be a foam between the baffle and the frame of the driver. Without this, it sounds atrocious. If mounted behind the baffle the foam on the frame of the driver does this job. I personally would strongly recommend rear mounting on baffles if I was the manufacturer. But like I said, many factors to consider.
@@hificave Off axis it sounded the same digging back into my memory, I've sold them a few months ago. They were about 80cm(32") of the ground, floor to phase plug, so about about 20cm(8") under ear height but I had them tilted back so the phase plug was pointed straight to my ear. 1,5m(60") from the front wall, treaded with qrd diffusors and acoustics absorbers, and 40cm(16") from the side walls.
@@hificave This I did not have and I'm sure this would have helped with some of the coloration I heard. But these speakers still have my reference bass sound. Acoustical instruments sounded lovely. Yet I couldn't get past that coloration, or what I perceived as coloration, in the vocals. They don't sound like anything I've heard before and after. People are loving them so they are doing something right. Other people must have other audio preferences then I do and that is perfectly fine. My current reference system is pretty much a complete 180 from what the open baffle F-15's are, slim tower with 5" 2-way design.
How have things developed with the F-18's?
Had to sell them to make room, but I absolutely love them. I might use them im a future build with w21 bass drivers. Giant image, giant soundstage, tons of midrange sweetness and presence and scale is awesome. Imo.
How would you compare them with the F-15? Also, what are your thoughts about pairing the F-18 with a tweeter? Did you go that route or do you suggest it?@@hificave
Garth should try owning a boat, or a plane.
;-)
10:58, you cruel, cruel man...
Lol, I was able to do hifi only after I sold my boats.
Get on with it.............
Hi John.
✌️🌎🌎🌍✌️
Well - you 'butchered' those 😉
Hahaha
And lol????? Oh I'm old to, nearly as old as Thomas..