A fight of the ages, between the Team of 2nd versus the Team of 2nd: Classical. In this video we're gonna analyze and discuss (1 way discussion) which of these 2 games does the same thing better. Subscribe! #tf2
One thing I think you failed to consider in this otherwise wonderfully written comparison is the fact that we should push toddlers down the stairs more often so they get stronger
Thanks for checking out TF2 Classic! There's definitely a lot of weapon ideas we still want to implement... and you figured out the design philosophy pretty well! Great video
@@jammemcoh9466 they aren't adding any more weapons from current tf2. It's possible they add something LIKE the sandman, but they won't add the sandman
if the grenades has Gas passer mechanics(does not start off with it available, have to wait or do damage to get grenades, get just 1 item) the grenades, mines and utility items would be better.
@@AlamarianJ we know. that said, what do you think of Gas Passer like mechanics on grenades, mines and utility items(shields for the Heavy, mini dispenser for certain classes, so on) for Slot 7(and utility weapons like the Tranqulizer gun, maybe something like pocket pistols, revolvers and sawn off single or double barrel shotguns? the idea is for example, pocket hammerless revolver for certain classes(scout engi and spy) that offers 40 damage in a small package or burst damage if double barrel is used(Scout, engi and Spy) as options. Plus, the pocket guns would have something like 12 in reserve compared to 36 of their normal variant), which would be interesting to have as options in both TF2C and main TF2.
I do think it's worth noting that many of TF2C's ideas are just "what if we took [existing weapon] and made it [MORE/LESS] wacky?" Like the Mine Layer is a wackier ScoRes as you mentioned, and the Twin Barrel moves the Force-a-Nature to a different class to create a wackier dichotomy, but conversely the L'Escampette is a less wacky Dead Ringer, Chekhov's Punch is a less wacky KGB, and the Brick is a far less wacky Guillotine. I definitely love when they TRULY experiment with things like the Harvester or Coilgun, or bring back beta ideas like the Dynamite Pack and Jump Pad, but it shouldn't go ignored that much of their weaponry is a balance patch with extra steps.
The Scottish Resistance asks "What if I could choose which stickybombs were detonated, instead of detonating all of them?" The Mine Layer is a completely unrelated concept that instead asks "What if stickybombs were detonated via proximity, instead of manually?" Which is a concept that has been proposed many times in the TF2 community. It's a good concept, and Valve should have done it themselves. But my point is that I don't see the relation to the Scottish Resistance. It's not "wackier" it's just a different take.
@@LeafMaltieze They both aim to allow the Demo to cover multiple chokes at once instead of having to invest fully into one. They do it with different methods, but at the end of the day if you added the Mine Layer to vanilla TF2 it wouldn't actually be fleshing out a new playstyle or anything it would just be baby's first Scottish Resistance Not to say it's a bad weapon it just fills an existing niche
I was going to write out an entire joke about editing mistakes but then 12:32 was so blatantly mismatched that it and the previous "mistakes" could only be bait for someone to comment on. Well played and I hope you have an awful day.
Oh hey, I appear in some of the TF2C footage in the VC, that's cool. Coincidentally enough, I remember talking about TF2C's weapon balance during that match lol. Cool video, it's nice to see someone show appreciation for TF2C's weapon philosophy!
The Iron Bombers "no rollers" and "shorter fuse time" stats make it a very important weapon, since it allows the Demoknight class to still have access to blast jumping.
@@duncanchillake8024the loose cannon triples the demomans weakness in close range any other grenade launcher is much more consistent in killing scout right in face meanwhile the loose cannon takes a million years to time the maximum damage
The way you include jokes and how you do small bits feels so natural and not forced it’s honestly refreshing seeing someone keep pace with the video and have it be funny
So what I love about tf2c over the original is that it goes back to its roots and keep improvement within it. The art style is 1950s-1970s Cold War spy tech. The weapons are based on real world counter parts and any sci-fi gear stay within the art style and isn’t completely ridiculous. The design choice in tf2c fits the characters and portray them as violent mercenaries while tf2 new weapons like the Xmas ones make them look like seasonal crackheads instead. Tf2c keep the weapon selection small but great in quality that encourage a new play style and tactics. The original tf2 weapons focus on modification of stock weapons that make most weapons either obsolete, extremely situational,or just plain the same due to the stats being barely noticeable. The weapon loadout combo be a hot mess in terms of effectiveness and visual design. I am hoping tf2c next update give the demoman a shotgun as a primary alternative and the sniper get his jarate back .
I think TF2C is better at designing melee weapons. In the orignal TF2, with a few exceptions; the stock melee is usually the worst weapon to have equiped but TF2C designs melee weapons to be so that it's still useful to have the stock equipped. A good example would be Pyro, the stock fire axe is would be the worst weapon if the only other option(The Harvester) didn't extinguish enemies when you die; removing your ability to finish enemies off after dying. Another example would be Medic, both of his other options add a passive downside that could encourage you to use stock. One(The Uberspritze) gives you another way to charge up your uber, at the cost of your health, and the other(The Shock Therapy) can let you deal more damage or instantly fully overheal an ally at the cost of the heal rate of your medigun.
Also important to notice: The Shock Therapy's Damage scales with it's charge, so it's only good for one offensive swing, and it loses charge when it hits a enemy/team. It's minimum damage is 3 with 0% charge. This means it sucks for attacking enemies. So the stock bonesaw is best for a offensive defensive use for self-defense.
Well I still take over the the uberspritze cuz it still has random crits over the stock and you still gonna die by a sniper 150 headshot anyways also the Shock Therapy heals spies so be sure to use syringe gun spray and prey on their asses
I do feel though that it would be better to just give stock melees a more unique identity then “does 65 damage with other stats”. You might say that it’s odd to give something unique to stock melees, I say that the alternative is that 5/9 classes never want to ever use a stock melee, 2/9 classes use it because they have mostly no better alternatives depending on loadout choice, and 2/9 classes have either the wrench or knife which are literally what I was talking about.
tf2c is definitely taking the quality over quantity approach for now sometimes I miss the chaos of more weapons, but I can just jump into a custom weapons server for that
I would much rather 20 gas passers than 20 miniguns. At least with gas passers you can try to have fun making a bad weapon work, whereas the miniguns are basically just reskins.
I think the only exception to TF2C's completely unique weapons is the scythe for Pyro, it's pretty much a remixed fire axe and doesn't leave much reason to use the stock other than not having enemies extinguish on death.
@@crack4184 I mean do you really? It's just normal pyro gameplay, but you can heal off burning players, and burning players extinguish on death, theres the crit that builds up off then but I've never used that more than once, because when does pyro use melee.
fair points, though I do think you underestimate the amount of weapons that defer quite a bit from stock in the base game (either for better or for worse like the flair guns or the caber).
Don't get me wrong I love the retail landscaper as much as the next guy watching star_ in 2013, but I'm not sure I'd agree it's the best designed weapon in tf2. Arguably it's more a problem with the core design of soldier melee, but it's practically a straight upgrade over stock, adding pick-class capabilities to the soldier without inherent sacrifice (as you don't use melee random crits to begin with on soldier). Using this capability requires putting yourself in an awkward risky position sure, but merely gaining the option should come with an associated drawback.
@@TiinKy333 maybe, idk how to balance it, the core issue is that soldier doesn't use melee anyway, so any melee capabilities you give up are essentially free currency to trade for useful things instead. Thinking of it now maybe a small land speed penalty (+blast resistance) forcing the soldier to rely more on rocket jumps to maintain mobility. To be fair same goes for all the other soldier melees, they should just allow for reflecting projectiles by hitting them with the stock shovel.
@@Error898789 While i love the idea of reflects i dont think power classes should be allowed to do that (look at how Pyro's Dragon fury restricts the airblast) + melee is so jank that i don't see it working consistently. Nothing wrong with the market gardner inherently, some unlocks are meant to replace their stock counterparts in terms of design to accomodate the gameplay that had evolved a lot since the game' early days (Sandvich, Rescue Ranger, Flare gun etc) I think utility based melee weapons goes well for Soldier, the escape plan for example. Caber would fit as well but in it's state the weapon is pretty much dead, the slower draw speed ruins the whole "last ace up my sleeve" spirit
9:19 Disagree, honestly. In my time playing the Liberty launcher + Reserve shooter combo i found out that not only it was really fun, i could actually do a LOT of damage if i played like it was doom, shooting and immediately changing weapons, thanks to it having a faster projectile it actually helps against stock soldiers, it's great for juggling, and if you time it right, may actually be faster than shooting two rockets, though you have to aim about 2 times as much between both weapons and time your shots very well Or maybe the Liberty launcher is just my kind of bad weapon
liberty launcher doesnt have bonus rocket jump force tho? in terms of knock back it is literally equal to stock. it gives self damage resistance and has a faster projectile, but no extra knockback in any way
The most important part of the iron bomber is the fact that it shoots centered and more consistently Makes you think if it would be better if the stock grenade launcher should be all of those things already
i wish you talked more about the individual weapons, because i havent played tf2c in a long ass time, so i have no idea what these weapons are. i hoped there would be more direct comparisons
wait wait wait. The Liberty Launcher stuff isn't right. It's worse even than that. The weapon SHOULD have increased push force to synergize with the rest of the set, but it doesn't, unless even the wiki is wrong. It's JUST bigger clip, reduced self damage, less damage to foes. If it had the other things mentioned, sure it would still be unremarkable, but at least it would have a unique attribute.
the liberty launcher from what i can tell is supposed to be paired with a shotgun to make up for its damage penalty, also rocket jumps with the liberty launcher send you further? ive never heard anyone say that before
Both are better than the fucking custom weapons servers. Yes, let's remove all identity from the Soldier by replacing his primary weapon with an M16 and his shotgun with a hand grenade. Yes, let's make fighting Pyro even more frustrating by giving the _ambush class_ with weapons that deal massive sustained damage the ability to slow down your movement and weapon speeds.
something also important to the TF2C equation is how prevalent Custom Weapon Mods are among the community servers, a lot of the weaknesses you point out TF2C as having compared to Live TF2 are not as much of a thing on say the servers that run the Knockout Custom Weapons mod for example(in fact that one is getting a big update in a couple days so might be worth doing some digging when that comes out, could probably get a video out of it)
@@odekoeodekoe5646hen again, TF2's balancing was never that good in the beginning. Valve kept consistently doing extremely weird downsides that really didn't do much in the terms of balancing, and some extremely strong upsides. For example, the blutsauger used to only have no random crits as it's downside on release. And the backburner having a random +50 Max Health on pyro on release. Which was.. I'm gonna be real, it was just busted. A 225 HP pyro when being lit on fire made the afterburn do the full duration for any amount of being on fire, and at a time when airblast didn't majorly exist. My point is, these early years will be relatively unbalanced precisely because they're still pretty much in their infancy, balancing wise. It took valve several years, and constant blunders balancing-wise. I've seen some actually fairly balanced weapons concepts in some custom weapon mods that could maybe survive being transferred outright from TF2C to TF2 without being busted or somehow underpowered. I'll tell you, they're actually making attempts at balancing their weapons now.
I mean there is one exception in my book in terms of custom weapons for tf2c, there's this mod on gamebanana called The New-Old-Weapons Pack and the creator SilentFox13/Kiri himself REALLY did a good job on adding effort into the weapons he's making in tf2c's item schema and unused stats too. He tries so hard on making the weapons he made out of the tf2 workshop and makes them into unique and interesting custom weapons, even if some of them are just gimmicky or a bit scuffed at times he at least tries his best to make them into something enjoyable for everyone.
@@tangerinepaint3643 I mean to be honest all of them to be fair they just fit tf2c so well, all of them are great in terms of their characteristics for all the classes and their gimmicks to make stand out from one to another. like the 3 revolvers for engineer, their different uses under situations whether if you wanna be a bit more defensive like using the ol' iron or the councilman whilst holding back against pesky spies, or use them for offensive purposes. but what really seals that deal is the ol' sheriff for it's fast firing speed and good accuracy at the cost of lower damage really makes it a good offensive alternative to the other 2 revolvers I think trying to let them stand out from the stock pistol/coilgun can be a bit of a challenge considering they have to be not op at times, especially when the stock weapons has to have some usage as well in the right situations.
TF2 and TF2C are both really spectacular games; and while I do think this is a very well done video, I just can't stop thinking about black men twerking. This video was worth the wait. Keep up the good work, bro! 👍
tf2 classic really shows that most tf2 weapons make the game worse and not better. there is very few differences between the stock classes in the main game vs classic, and outside of minor buffs and nerfs they are basically identical. but due to the quality of weapons i think tf2 classic is generally more fun.
Maybe this is a hot take but I think having many "boring weapons" isn't really that big of a downside. At worst, you're making a stock reskin, but idk I don't really have anything AGAINST stock reskins. If the wanga prick had some very slightly different stats/effect to YER like the original does to stock I don't see that as any big issue. Maybe I do just want my gun to look cool, y'know?
If you want skins that's fine but I don't see the point in designing an entire new weapon, with new functionality, that doesn't end up being exciting or interesting. That's just me.
@@kalukagamingfellaguy Well I guess that's the thing. If it hardly changes from stock, like with the iron bomber, then you really didn't spend that much time designing some entirely new weapon with new functionality. You added a reskin that also had a gimmick. I guess in my eyes it's less "unique weapons that aren't able to be unique" and more "SICK my weapon skin shoots different looking pipes too?!" Unless weapon reskins are themselves an issue, I don't see the issue, y'know?
@@smallangrycrab I think you and I fundementally disagree on the point of effort. If you're gonna make something, at least try to make it good, making something simply unoffensive isn't really hard. "Shit or get off the pot", and all that.
I think skins are fine, I just don't think making an entire new weapon just for it to extremely small differences is the best way to make a game. If you're gonna make skins, just make skins.
I might, though individual weapon reviews aren't really my style - I don't personally think there's really enough substance (in most cases) to fill an entire video if you're just talking about 1 gun.
@@kalukagamingfellaguy maybe a weapon comparison video for each class then? Like when each weapon is the best. I have a hard time using the new weapons because they have a different play style.
@@kalukagamingfellaguy considering the current low quantity of weapons instead of a individual weapons review you could cover a class with the whole 2 to 4 new weapons it had recieved
I like both styles imagine when you get out the landmines and the Scottish resistance they're actually both do tephra playstyles they both be for defense but depending on the type of defense imagine of all the weapons in the same game the best TF2
Idk if this is true but it always seemed like the Grenades of Stock and the Iron Bomber have a different arc ... which is why I dont really like the Iron Bomber. Idk if its true but using it just feels kinda weird-
while it's not connected to TF2C officially, it does have certain community servers that are also implementing their own weapons and maps. take tf2c: knockout, where it has many new and unique weapons and maps, and even added female mercs to play as, being completely uniquely designed models for every class, with the only downside being that they don't have unique voicelines, only using base class voices that have been pitched up, but at that point, it'd be nitpicky. anyways, servers such as that add increasingly new ways to play, on top of the ones officially made by the the TF2C team, giving increasingly new ways to play. such examples are suits of armor for both demos and soldiers that take up primary slots, removing your primary, and replacing it with powerful buffs. add on shields for those classes and you can run a completely melee-based build that encourages the player to go headlong into the fray and attack face-to-face. or a heavy build that makes him an even bigger tank than before, effectively turning him into a walking wall (and did i forget to mention there is a literal wall as a primary to defend allies with). if TF2C has new playstyles, TF2C: KO has new class styles, effectively refurbishing every class to work completely different than it used to. even the civilian gets new weapons that change his playstyle from applying various buffs to outright making him a savage brawler that gets better with every undisturbed killstreak. if TF2C is what might be if Tf2 went back to basics TF2C:KO is what might've happened if the devs continued developing TF2 nonstop. it is an unapologetic mess of brilliance and chaos, all for the players pleasure.
I kinda wish TF2 cosmetics could be worn in TF2C. I know it's probably not possible because copyright or something but it'd make me kinda happy and maybe play TF2C... more than once a blue moon.
TF2:Classic has better support for custom weapons on servers via the loadout menu. Although, I'm not sure this means much since the only CW servers that're up don't have a lot of effort being put into them. Infact, one of the servers just rips an older version of another server's plugin. One of the many reasons why I stopped playing TF2:C. I find that TF2:C is also far less casual, I often find myself being paired up against stompers who take advantage of stuff that I really wish TF2:C themselves would really change that they took from TF2 (I.e. random crits scaling with how much damage you do... what kinda lame system is that?)
![[TF2] Weapons and How to Do Counterplay](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jHnZaXTHUqs/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Weapons and How to Do Counterplay](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] has Genius Weapon Design](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZesDHHudnAc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Kritz Always Sucked](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/H0wdj8A-bII/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] The Worst Class That's Not BLU Engi](/img/n.gif)
Wtf I thought this dude was dead
Me when I look at the purple guy
It's only been a month. That's not too long.
I know right? We all saw the bullet go though his skull.
you should try the custom weapon servers
who are you and what are you doing in my subscriptions
One thing I think you failed to consider in this otherwise wonderfully written comparison is the fact that we should push toddlers down the stairs more often so they get stronger
Well, now we just have to accept that this is peak humour
Yeah haven’t watched it yet, but definitely could have gone into more detail about that for sure, otherwise excellent, I give this video 2/10.
Haven’t watched the video yet, sounds like it’s gonna be great
I fully agree with the change you have presented
That’s the Saxton Hale grindset
Weapons in tf2 have always seemed like a strange case to me
Stop that
@@kalukagamingfellaguy Weapons in tf2 have always seemed like a strange case to me
@@kalukagamingfellaguy Weapons in tf2 have always seemed like a strange case to me
The meme doesn't even make sense. What is the joke supposed to be? Seems pretty fucking stupid to me.
Weapons in tf2 have always seemed like a strange case to me
Thanks for checking out TF2 Classic! There's definitely a lot of weapon ideas we still want to implement... and you figured out the design philosophy pretty well! Great video
can you bring back the classic sandman =D
How many weapons are y’all planning on adding
@@jammemcoh9466 they aren't adding any more weapons from current tf2. It's possible they add something LIKE the sandman, but they won't add the sandman
@@jammemcoh9466bro loves bullshit weapons
The Dynamite is also a weapon concept of TF2 from the 2006 beta but it was removed from the game for balacing reasons.
if the grenades has Gas passer mechanics(does not start off with it available, have to wait or do damage to get grenades, get just 1 item) the grenades, mines and utility items would be better.
The concept came from the MIRV grenades from the Team Fortress/Team Fortress Classic mods.
@@AlamarianJ we know. that said, what do you think of Gas Passer like mechanics on grenades, mines and utility items(shields for the Heavy, mini dispenser for certain classes, so on) for Slot 7(and utility weapons like the Tranqulizer gun, maybe something like pocket pistols, revolvers and sawn off single or double barrel shotguns? the idea is for example, pocket hammerless revolver for certain classes(scout engi and spy) that offers 40 damage in a small package or burst damage if double barrel is used(Scout, engi and Spy) as options. Plus, the pocket guns would have something like 12 in reserve compared to 36 of their normal variant), which would be interesting to have as options in both TF2C and main TF2.
no its because grenades were removed
@@drivanradosivic1357overwatch is that way
I do think it's worth noting that many of TF2C's ideas are just "what if we took [existing weapon] and made it [MORE/LESS] wacky?" Like the Mine Layer is a wackier ScoRes as you mentioned, and the Twin Barrel moves the Force-a-Nature to a different class to create a wackier dichotomy, but conversely the L'Escampette is a less wacky Dead Ringer, Chekhov's Punch is a less wacky KGB, and the Brick is a far less wacky Guillotine. I definitely love when they TRULY experiment with things like the Harvester or Coilgun, or bring back beta ideas like the Dynamite Pack and Jump Pad, but it shouldn't go ignored that much of their weaponry is a balance patch with extra steps.
i mean, it is a lot funnier to hit somebody with a brick than it is a cleaver
The Scottish Resistance asks "What if I could choose which stickybombs were detonated, instead of detonating all of them?" The Mine Layer is a completely unrelated concept that instead asks "What if stickybombs were detonated via proximity, instead of manually?" Which is a concept that has been proposed many times in the TF2 community. It's a good concept, and Valve should have done it themselves. But my point is that I don't see the relation to the Scottish Resistance. It's not "wackier" it's just a different take.
@@LeafMaltieze They both aim to allow the Demo to cover multiple chokes at once instead of having to invest fully into one. They do it with different methods, but at the end of the day if you added the Mine Layer to vanilla TF2 it wouldn't actually be fleshing out a new playstyle or anything it would just be baby's first Scottish Resistance
Not to say it's a bad weapon it just fills an existing niche
I was going to write out an entire joke about editing mistakes but then 12:32 was so blatantly mismatched that it and the previous "mistakes" could only be bait for someone to comment on.
Well played and I hope you have an awful day.
Oh hey, I appear in some of the TF2C footage in the VC, that's cool. Coincidentally enough, I remember talking about TF2C's weapon balance during that match lol.
Cool video, it's nice to see someone show appreciation for TF2C's weapon philosophy!
The Iron Bombers "no rollers" and "shorter fuse time" stats make it a very important weapon, since it allows the Demoknight class to still have access to blast jumping.
Loose cannon
but what about the cannon at its loosest, the loose cannon
@@godofportal5905 too much self damage and also not a good sentry buster.
@@duncanchillake8024the loose cannon triples the demomans weakness in close range any other grenade launcher is much more consistent in killing scout right in face meanwhile the loose cannon takes a million years to time the maximum damage
@@Xx_SuperPenis_xX Haha donk go brrrrrt
The way you include jokes and how you do small bits feels so natural and not forced it’s honestly refreshing seeing someone keep pace with the video and have it be funny
Really bold to post a piece of surrealist performance art in the guise of a tf2 weapons video. It's quite avant garde.
Completely agree with you, tf2 classic has become my default multiplayer game in the past few months not only for the artstyle but the weapons as well
Underrated tf2bers try not to have the cleanest editting on the planet
So what I love about tf2c over the original is that it goes back to its roots and keep improvement within it. The art style is 1950s-1970s Cold War spy tech. The weapons are based on real world counter parts and any sci-fi gear stay within the art style and isn’t completely ridiculous. The design choice in tf2c fits the characters and portray them as violent mercenaries while tf2 new weapons like the Xmas ones make them look like seasonal crackheads instead.
Tf2c keep the weapon selection small but great in quality that encourage a new play style and tactics.
The original tf2 weapons focus on modification of stock weapons that make most weapons either obsolete, extremely situational,or just plain the same due to the stats being barely noticeable. The weapon loadout combo be a hot mess in terms of effectiveness and visual design.
I am hoping tf2c next update give the demoman a shotgun as a primary alternative and the sniper get his jarate back .
If demo does get a shotgun, I’m expecting it to be a grenade launcher that fires a cluster of small grenades, because hitscan on demo is no good.
@@tangerinepaint3643 I mean that was the original idea behind the iron bomber.
@@Underqualified_Gunman I wish the Scotch Guardian as presented by the uploader was the Iron Bomber we got.
The creator of the Iron Bomber actually had on right-click fire all four shots. A lot of weapons in the workshop have unique mechanics.
imagine if the tf2 classic weapons got into tf2 , that would be so fun
Nail Gun + Mad Milk = Dollar Sotre Blutsager
I think TF2C is better at designing melee weapons. In the orignal TF2, with a few exceptions; the stock melee is usually the worst weapon to have equiped but TF2C designs melee weapons to be so that it's still useful to have the stock equipped. A good example would be Pyro, the stock fire axe is would be the worst weapon if the only other option(The Harvester) didn't extinguish enemies when you die; removing your ability to finish enemies off after dying. Another example would be Medic, both of his other options add a passive downside that could encourage you to use stock. One(The Uberspritze) gives you another way to charge up your uber, at the cost of your health, and the other(The Shock Therapy) can let you deal more damage or instantly fully overheal an ally at the cost of the heal rate of your medigun.
Also important to notice: The Shock Therapy's Damage scales with it's charge, so it's only good for one offensive swing, and it loses charge when it hits a enemy/team. It's minimum damage is 3 with 0% charge. This means it sucks for attacking enemies.
So the stock bonesaw is best for a offensive defensive use for self-defense.
Well I still take over the the uberspritze cuz it still has random crits over the stock and you still gonna die by a sniper 150 headshot anyways also the Shock Therapy heals spies so be sure to use syringe gun spray and prey on their asses
I do feel though that it would be better to just give stock melees a more unique identity then “does 65 damage with other stats”. You might say that it’s odd to give something unique to stock melees, I say that the alternative is that 5/9 classes never want to ever use a stock melee, 2/9 classes use it because they have mostly no better alternatives depending on loadout choice, and 2/9 classes have either the wrench or knife which are literally what I was talking about.
tf2c is definitely taking the quality over quantity approach for now
sometimes I miss the chaos of more weapons, but I can just jump into a custom weapons server for that
You need more subs this content has a lot of effort put into it
Ty!
as the number one syringe gun fan. you can't kill me if I kill you first
It's a syringe gun, you can't kill people at all
@@kalukagamingfellaguy tell that to the 1800+ kills I have on my Strange Syringe Gun
I would much rather 20 gas passers than 20 miniguns. At least with gas passers you can try to have fun making a bad weapon work, whereas the miniguns are basically just reskins.
the gass passer takes so long to charge that you cant even do that much
7:51 is the hardest i've laughed today by far, idk why it's so funny to me
I think the only exception to TF2C's completely unique weapons is the scythe for Pyro, it's pretty much a remixed fire axe and doesn't leave much reason to use the stock other than not having enemies extinguish on death.
You need another gameplan when you use the scythe
i dont use it cause i like to do suicide plays
@@crack4184 I mean do you really? It's just normal pyro gameplay, but you can heal off burning players, and burning players extinguish on death, theres the crit that builds up off then but I've never used that more than once, because when does pyro use melee.
@@zOOpygOOpert Well yeah but you're more build toward afterburn and group attack and retreating quickly rather than going for huge killing sprees
what your point? there no reason to use the stock axe in standard tf2 anyway considering the powerjack exist
Did you drug me?
I think this video would've been better of it was 5 hours longer, and released in 2024
fair points, though I do think you underestimate the amount of weapons that defer quite a bit from stock in the base game (either for better or for worse like the flair guns or the caber).
14:55 Why is Jerma going for a high-five in 1936 Berlin olympics?
He got the silver medal and was waving hi to chat
the Beggar's Bazooka is much stronger than you give it credit for
"weapons are the backbone of the entire TF2 ecosystem"
hats: "am I a joke to you?"
ecosystem, not economy
Your voice makes these videos much better. That sounds weird but I just really enjoy the clarity and tone you talk in these.
Don't get me wrong I love the retail landscaper as much as the next guy watching star_ in 2013, but I'm not sure I'd agree it's the best designed weapon in tf2. Arguably it's more a problem with the core design of soldier melee, but it's practically a straight upgrade over stock, adding pick-class capabilities to the soldier without inherent sacrifice (as you don't use melee random crits to begin with on soldier). Using this capability requires putting yourself in an awkward risky position sure, but merely gaining the option should come with an associated drawback.
It does have a longer time between hits but it could be even longer
@@TiinKy333 maybe, idk how to balance it, the core issue is that soldier doesn't use melee anyway, so any melee capabilities you give up are essentially free currency to trade for useful things instead.
Thinking of it now maybe a small land speed penalty (+blast resistance) forcing the soldier to rely more on rocket jumps to maintain mobility.
To be fair same goes for all the other soldier melees, they should just allow for reflecting projectiles by hitting them with the stock shovel.
@@Error898789 While i love the idea of reflects i dont think power classes should be allowed to do that (look at how Pyro's Dragon fury restricts the airblast) + melee is so jank that i don't see it working consistently.
Nothing wrong with the market gardner inherently, some unlocks are meant to replace their stock counterparts in terms of design to accomodate the gameplay that had evolved a lot since the game' early days (Sandvich, Rescue Ranger, Flare gun etc)
I think utility based melee weapons goes well for Soldier, the escape plan for example.
Caber would fit as well but in it's state the weapon is pretty much dead, the slower draw speed ruins the whole "last ace up my sleeve" spirit
9:19 Disagree, honestly.
In my time playing the Liberty launcher + Reserve shooter combo i found out that not only it was really fun, i could actually do a LOT of damage if i played like it was doom, shooting and immediately changing weapons, thanks to it having a faster projectile it actually helps against stock soldiers, it's great for juggling, and if you time it right, may actually be faster than shooting two rockets, though you have to aim about 2 times as much between both weapons and time your shots very well
Or maybe the Liberty launcher is just my kind of bad weapon
liberty launcher doesnt have bonus rocket jump force tho? in terms of knock back it is literally equal to stock. it gives self damage resistance and has a faster projectile, but no extra knockback in any way
The most important part of the iron bomber is the fact that it shoots centered and more consistently
Makes you think if it would be better if the stock grenade launcher should be all of those things already
I can't believe that Kaluka would make a gross noise, his career is over.
i wish you talked more about the individual weapons, because i havent played tf2c in a long ass time, so i have no idea what these weapons are. i hoped there would be more direct comparisons
Great video, Kaluka!
About time we got a deep dive on TF2c.
wait wait wait. The Liberty Launcher stuff isn't right. It's worse even than that. The weapon SHOULD have increased push force to synergize with the rest of the set, but it doesn't, unless even the wiki is wrong. It's JUST bigger clip, reduced self damage, less damage to foes.
If it had the other things mentioned, sure it would still be unremarkable, but at least it would have a unique attribute.
That split second "Clowd meadown" on the first second of the sponsor caught me off guard
don't ask me how i know the game
the liberty launcher from what i can tell is supposed to be paired with a shotgun to make up for its damage penalty, also rocket jumps with the liberty launcher send you further? ive never heard anyone say that before
Both are better than the fucking custom weapons servers. Yes, let's remove all identity from the Soldier by replacing his primary weapon with an M16 and his shotgun with a hand grenade. Yes, let's make fighting Pyro even more frustrating by giving the _ambush class_ with weapons that deal massive sustained damage the ability to slow down your movement and weapon speeds.
someone tagged the 'gamer chew' section as a real ad to be skipped in sponsorblock lmao
You thought you where cheeky putting cloud meadow on that “are you a gamer?”
something also important to the TF2C equation is how prevalent Custom Weapon Mods are among the community servers, a lot of the weaknesses you point out TF2C as having compared to Live TF2 are not as much of a thing on say the servers that run the Knockout Custom Weapons mod for example(in fact that one is getting a big update in a couple days so might be worth doing some digging when that comes out, could probably get a video out of it)
yeah but the custom weapons mod are kinda not really balanced
@@odekoeodekoe5646hen again, TF2's balancing was never that good in the beginning.
Valve kept consistently doing extremely weird downsides that really didn't do much in the terms of balancing, and some extremely strong upsides.
For example, the blutsauger used to only have no random crits as it's downside on release. And the backburner having a random +50 Max Health on pyro on release. Which was.. I'm gonna be real, it was just busted. A 225 HP pyro when being lit on fire made the afterburn do the full duration for any amount of being on fire, and at a time when airblast didn't majorly exist.
My point is, these early years will be relatively unbalanced precisely because they're still pretty much in their infancy, balancing wise. It took valve several years, and constant blunders balancing-wise. I've seen some actually fairly balanced weapons concepts in some custom weapon mods that could maybe survive being transferred outright from TF2C to TF2 without being busted or somehow underpowered.
I'll tell you, they're actually making attempts at balancing their weapons now.
I mean there is one exception in my book in terms of custom weapons for tf2c, there's this mod on gamebanana called The New-Old-Weapons Pack and the creator SilentFox13/Kiri himself REALLY did a good job on adding effort into the weapons he's making in tf2c's item schema and unused stats too. He tries so hard on making the weapons he made out of the tf2 workshop and makes them into unique and interesting custom weapons, even if some of them are just gimmicky or a bit scuffed at times he at least tries his best to make them into something enjoyable for everyone.
@@grunt5545 Yo grunt, what’s your favorite NOWP weapon so far?
@@tangerinepaint3643 I mean to be honest all of them to be fair they just fit tf2c so well, all of them are great in terms of their characteristics for all the classes and their gimmicks to make stand out from one to another. like the 3 revolvers for engineer, their different uses under situations whether if you wanna be a bit more defensive like using the ol' iron or the councilman whilst holding back against pesky spies, or use them for offensive purposes. but what really seals that deal is the ol' sheriff for it's fast firing speed and good accuracy at the cost of lower damage really makes it a good offensive alternative to the other 2 revolvers I think trying to let them stand out from the stock pistol/coilgun can be a bit of a challenge considering they have to be not op at times, especially when the stock weapons has to have some usage as well in the right situations.
I love how both the hitman’s and the gas passer are op in mvm
Good video. I prefer TF2C now honestly, the artstyle is better emphasized and the weapons feel more impactful. But I digest, you earned a sub.
the white text is like information and discreption at the same time
God damn it every time I hear main theme now I think of my ice skating solo
TF2 and TF2C are both really spectacular games; and while I do think this is a very well done video, I just can't stop thinking about black men twerking. This video was worth the wait. Keep up the good work, bro! 👍
Does anyone have a list of names of the songs used in this video? Pls help 🙏
what do yo uthink ofg the tf2c custom weapons servers?
"But is Kaluka an autistic twink?" *Vsauce music plays*
How did you get rid of the arms on some view models?
11:35 The original workshop submission for it had an honestly
kinda unique gimmick for it
How tf are your videos so good ?!
alcohol
I love your content 👍
5:39 OMG It's Trailblazer! We used to chat many times in TF2 Classic!
This video has single-handedly made me realize that I don’t use the weapons I originally used in TF two that much anymore
"but i digest" hahahaha LOVE IT
Bro what did the Hitman heatmaker do it more interesting than the other 2 sniper rifles that act like stock
Holy shit are you in my house, I blew my nose the second 14:06 popped up. Odd…
tf2 classic really shows that most tf2 weapons make the game worse and not better. there is very few differences between the stock classes in the main game vs classic, and outside of minor buffs and nerfs they are basically identical. but due to the quality of weapons i think tf2 classic is generally more fun.
Maybe this is a hot take but I think having many "boring weapons" isn't really that big of a downside. At worst, you're making a stock reskin, but idk I don't really have anything AGAINST stock reskins. If the wanga prick had some very slightly different stats/effect to YER like the original does to stock I don't see that as any big issue. Maybe I do just want my gun to look cool, y'know?
If you want skins that's fine but I don't see the point in designing an entire new weapon, with new functionality, that doesn't end up being exciting or interesting. That's just me.
@@kalukagamingfellaguy Well I guess that's the thing. If it hardly changes from stock, like with the iron bomber, then you really didn't spend that much time designing some entirely new weapon with new functionality. You added a reskin that also had a gimmick. I guess in my eyes it's less "unique weapons that aren't able to be unique" and more "SICK my weapon skin shoots different looking pipes too?!" Unless weapon reskins are themselves an issue, I don't see the issue, y'know?
@@smallangrycrab I think you and I fundementally disagree on the point of effort. If you're gonna make something, at least try to make it good, making something simply unoffensive isn't really hard.
"Shit or get off the pot", and all that.
@@kalukagamingfellaguy Do you think weapon reskins themselves are not good?
I think skins are fine, I just don't think making an entire new weapon just for it to extremely small differences is the best way to make a game. If you're gonna make skins, just make skins.
Jump pads have existed in tf2 for 5 years already
Me when I lie
@@kalukagamingfellaguy why tf u lying
I wish there where more videos on tf2c! Could you make in depth videos on the weapons?
I might, though individual weapon reviews aren't really my style - I don't personally think there's really enough substance (in most cases) to fill an entire video if you're just talking about 1 gun.
@@kalukagamingfellaguy maybe a weapon comparison video for each class then? Like when each weapon is the best. I have a hard time using the new weapons because they have a different play style.
@@kalukagamingfellaguy considering the current low quantity of weapons instead of a individual weapons review you could cover a class with the whole 2 to 4 new weapons it had recieved
I like both styles imagine when you get out the landmines and the Scottish resistance they're actually both do tephra playstyles they both be for defense but depending on the type of defense imagine of all the weapons in the same game the best TF2
i never used the iron bomber because the stats made it seem like the exact same as stock
“I dunno, I just returned”
ngl I wanna see the hunting revolver make its way into live in some way.
some weapon show in this video are adon not it the vanilla tf2 classic like the jump pad
are you baiting youtube comments by stating that the liberty launcher has bonus knockback?
I would never why are you saying such things
@@kalukagamingfellaguy because i am evil
the Liberty Launcher has more knockback???
Hey Um, Does Anyone Else Call The Downsides To A Weapon A "Birth-Defect"?
Just Wanna Know
Iron bomber is nightamre for pyros because they explode when you airblast them. (Only when they touched ground).
Idk if this is true but it always seemed like the Grenades of Stock and the Iron Bomber have a different arc ... which is why I dont really like the Iron Bomber. Idk if its true but using it just feels kinda weird-
Loose Cannon best Demo primary hands down, I will never switch off it.
Cool video.
16:02 REAL GAMING HOURS BAYBEE
while it's not connected to TF2C officially, it does have certain community servers that are also implementing their own weapons and maps. take tf2c: knockout, where it has many new and unique weapons and maps, and even added female mercs to play as, being completely uniquely designed models for every class, with the only downside being that they don't have unique voicelines, only using base class voices that have been pitched up, but at that point, it'd be nitpicky.
anyways, servers such as that add increasingly new ways to play, on top of the ones officially made by the the TF2C team, giving increasingly new ways to play. such examples are suits of armor for both demos and soldiers that take up primary slots, removing your primary, and replacing it with powerful buffs. add on shields for those classes and you can run a completely melee-based build that encourages the player to go headlong into the fray and attack face-to-face.
or a heavy build that makes him an even bigger tank than before, effectively turning him into a walking wall (and did i forget to mention there is a literal wall as a primary to defend allies with).
if TF2C has new playstyles, TF2C: KO has new class styles, effectively refurbishing every class to work completely different than it used to. even the civilian gets new weapons that change his playstyle from applying various buffs to outright making him a savage brawler that gets better with every undisturbed killstreak.
if TF2C is what might be if Tf2 went back to basics TF2C:KO is what might've happened if the devs continued developing TF2 nonstop. it is an unapologetic mess of brilliance and chaos, all for the players pleasure.
We used to call them MIRVS not Dynamite.
R.I.P Righteous Bison :(
Iron bomber good for bomb jump when don't have sticky. 'Nough said.
It's flaskin' time
It's funny cause the gas and heatmaker are really good on mvm
Ik you're talking about pvp style but, i still wanted to say it
Damn valve should hire tf2clasdic people and let them make new weapons
can't we have both? I like the liberty launcher :(
Bro opened Asheville to record himself ragdolling, if that isn't wasted time in a loading screen I don't know what is.
The most unique part of team fortress 2 classic the the yellow and green
Tf2c definitely have spice that vanilla tf2 don't have.
And yes, I main blutsauger in daily basis, so bring it, I'm not scare you.
Wtf I just snorted before the text that told me off for it wtf
Commenting to hel the alg
I wonder if you're ever gonna get any sponsorship offers from gamer juice companies after that joke lmao
what the fuck is he saying in the beginning?
"have you ever wondered what team fortress would be to fortress 2 without?"
"But i digest."
3:46 CONE JUMP
5 months late but one issue with heavy... his damage drop-off is all of about melee distance. It's just... absolute pants.
I kinda wish TF2 cosmetics could be worn in TF2C. I know it's probably not possible because copyright or something but it'd make me kinda happy and maybe play TF2C... more than once a blue moon.
Nothing to do with copyright, the TF2C team just has zero plans to add any cosmetics to the game
TF2:Classic has better support for custom weapons on servers via the loadout menu.
Although, I'm not sure this means much since the only CW servers that're up don't have a lot of effort being put into them. Infact, one of the servers just rips an older version of another server's plugin.
One of the many reasons why I stopped playing TF2:C. I find that TF2:C is also far less casual, I often find myself being paired up against stompers who take advantage of stuff that I really wish TF2:C themselves would really change that they took from TF2 (I.e. random crits scaling with how much damage you do... what kinda lame system is that?)
What about Team Fortress 2 Classic custom weapons?
I'll probably take a look another time, might be soon
Is this Mr.Caption?