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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ธ.ค. 2022
- As you can probably tell from the thumbnail, heavy is the worst class in Tf2. Don't look at the 12 silhouettes of Sniper. This video is about Heavy. And in this video, I go over why heavy (not sniper, too wide), is Tf2's worst designed class.
#tf2 #tf2sniper
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![[TF2] Just What Exactly is Wrong With Sniper? - A Balance Discussion](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/C7Rm5NhTm-k/mqdefault.jpg)
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@@demoman5864 its in the game
@@Mcribwhiththatchikinnuggs E
I'm glad at least someone pointed out the fact that TF2 is very deliberately designed around close-range "burst" combat which makes it feel so alive and energetic to play. In most shooter games, players prefer to stay as far away from each other as possible -_-
No one was complaining about sniper until the bot crisis, just because some random ass TH-camr rants about sniper it's unfair everyone start to make videos like this. I don't understand why people conplain about this when other clases are stronger than him, he isn't play on 6s that often and highlander is more balanced cuz both teams have equal amount of players so a sniper ain't gonna ruin the game. But ofc it just because tf2youtbers say that sniper is broken cuz it can kill anyone at anytime at any range.
@@glenn6657 people didn't like sniper b4 the bot crisis as well lol.
@@glenn6657 also, the only reason he isn't used in 6s all the time is because of mobility, and even then he's still the most used and best offclass in that game mode. In highlander it's even worse because the entire game is revolved around it
@@randomperson7350 caber was nerfed by valve exclusively for comp players, because it oneshots meds and nobody likes this decision
So, do you really think most of the TF2 community cares that much about competitive modes?
@@luciuswrath290 the reason why I talked about comp players was because Glenn implied that comp players thought sniper wasn't a good class, so I declares that it wasn't true and that most of them also dislike sniper. Though, since casual players seem to hate sniper even more than comp players, wouldn't that mean that the majority of players dislike sniper?
there is a reason one of the most important callouts in competitive highlander is the location of the sniper
The reason is that arbitrarily limiting one side to only 1 scout or soldier makes a sacrifice flank more costly, making the sniper more powerful. An ancillary reason is that Highlander includes Payload which has some of the worst sightlines in the game due to the nature of needing a long, straight cart path.
@@ShakerSilver Actually it's because you typically can't tell where a sniper is without a callout until it's too late. And "too late" means instantly dying
OP's point on callouts has nothing to do with how easy it is to flank the sniper. You still need a callout to know which sightlines to avoid
sniper behind a rock...
I heard somewhere: "Sniper was not designed with 2000 hours of practice in mind". I agree with all of the points in this video and i like how you get ahead of the possible counter arguments. Some of the most promising solutions i've seen include giving the sniper damage falloff, a clip he has to reload and less total ammo so he can't fire non stop. I do agree that giving sniper all nerfs in an update would be very problematic in the community, even tho i personally think it would be healthy for the game. A complete rework is in order and that is a huge undertaking for the one dev still working on TF2.
When they nerfed ambassador, there also was really loudly about it, even I hated that change, but after some time I understand why it needed nerf,
I'm pretty sure that sniper will hate changes but they after some time they eventually would understand
Zesty Jesus' video ?
Why not make it so he has to charge his shot to get full damage? That way his playstyle doesn’t really change but he has less opportunities to do max damage.
Nerfing Sniper's SPD to 90% could be a decent mini-nerf to him without touching his power too much. Sniper would need more time to get into position after a death, and players still get just about Demoman's SPD when Melee-meming.
Those are terrible solutions
Damage fall off would make it frustrating and unreliable
A clip does nothing to stop cheap kills
Hard agree. Even on good and fun servers competent snipers end up being so oppressive it just ruins the whole pace of the game. No one dares "peek the sightline" or make fun plays much, both teams just start playing tf2 as a cover shooter and it just sucks so damn much.
I main sniper because I don’t like demoman or soldier, and scout isn’t fun to use against demoman and soldiers
@@icedthecube7225 you're just a noob if you think that scout isn't fun to use against demo and soldiers,classes that the scout can easily counter
@@succyfish5451 then you're bad at playing scout
@@succyfish5451 scout can win a 1v1 with any class in the game consistently. His mobility makes a good scout player impossible to hit with splash
If I wanted to play a game where I have to crawl to avoid a sniper and just shoot when I'm sure the sniper isn't seeing me, I would play battlefield
I think a solution to the insane quickscoping in close range is giving sniper what the medic's crossbow has. a reverse ramp up. It would force him to play more like a sniper instead of being able to play in any one position and murder half the teams light classes
Reverse ramp up and a damage penalty on his base melee like scout has would do wonders honestly.
Would be a lot easier than redesigning his shield secondarys to not just be fuck you to classes that are meant to counter him.
I've been suggesting this for a while now myself. Sniper is meant to be a long ranged killer, he shouldn't be just as potent at killing people at close range!
Additionally, the Jarate + Bushwacka combo needs to be nerfed, otherwise this nerf to the sniper rifles itself won't do much, as he'd still be extremely potent at close range combat.
In general he has some really problematic secondaries. He has access to two hardcounters against other classes (Darwins Danger Shield completely negates Pyros and Razorback completely negates backstabattempts), both of which need to go. Softcounters are fine, but not to the extend where they completely nullify a different classes main gimmick.
And one last thing that I'd do is to give all Sniper rifles tracers similar to what the Classic has. That way the Snipers sightline becomes much more apparent to the enemy team (currently he can just pick you off from the other side of the map and you don't even know where to dodge to) and he exposes his own position, which opens him up for potential counterattacks by flanking classes.
TC2 did this very well. A 20% damage nerf to rifles when under 90 studs iirc. Sniper is actually pretty balanced in that game overall lol
That's actually a great idea! It's quite simple but sounds very effective! How come I never thought of that?
And to anyone that says that it doesn’t make sense that a rifle becomes weaker at close range, well damage falloff isn’t as intense in the game as it is for real life. Also, it’s not like we’re going to make it as weak as firing a tic-tac. It’s still a rifle.
Snipers mains after they cant kill an entire team by themselfs in five seconds after being nerfed: 😱😭😭
Sniper mains when they get 2 kills a round after being nerfed into the ground
@@CommunistHam if you can't get more than 2 kills after becoming unable to kill an entire team in 5 seconds then maybe Sniper is just a crutch
@@azurabbit12 Or perhaps nerfing a class into uselessness isn't a good idea.
Not to mention calling a class with a very high skill floor to be remotely useful a "crutch" is deranged. Seek mental help.
@@CommunistHam ofc gotta bring out the ableist shit
No one is arguing that Sniper should be "nerfed into uselessness", making him unable to kill half of the classes in the game in half a second and making it so you actually have to commit to something to be able to kill an enemy standing on the other side of the map without any way to fight back is called balancing
@@azurabbit12 Literally just making him a worse scout. You are actually delusional, the suggested changes nerf him into the ground.
Once again you have never played sniper and have no idea how this would obliterate his effectiveness and calling the class with the highest skill floor a crutch is still braindead.
I've been playing Competitive sniper for a few years now and I 100% agree that sniper is overpowered and should be nerfed, however I would go about it in a slightly different way, I think the real power of sniper comes in with the fact that he can one shot squishy classes from any distance with a body shot. It is probably the most effective way to play him. I would personally like to see a decrease to 45 dmg (min) to 115 dmg bodyshot (max), to prevent sniper from being able to reliably kill a 125 - 150 HP target consistently. I would like headshots to be more encouraged and increase the skill ceiling of the character giving people approaching, like flanking scouts, or spys. less of a chance to get bodied for being visable for half a second in front of the sniper.
I think the problem is sniper being able to one shot any class at any range and reload within a second.
Sniper wasn't designed around 2000 hours of practice in mind. A bad sniper is completely useless, an alright sniper is kinda boring to play against since you can't really react to him one hit killing you from across the map and a good sniper is downright unfair to fight against.
I'd nerf quickscoping, too.
Add an innate 1 second timer before Sniper's zoomed shot can trigger headshots. Either that or a very cutthroat nerf to headshots that makes them deal just shy of 145 damage so the threshold for instant kills is set to other Snipers, Spies, Engineers (No Gunslinger) and Scouts.
A quote I heard about from old TF2 players over a decade ago is "You can be the best Soldier in the World. You can be a pro jumper, win tournaments, get insane kills left and right. You could be the best in the World, and a sub par sniper can still easily be better than you." Sniper has no skill Ceiling. His skill ceiling is just above the best player on the enemy team.
The best soldier in the world must have decent jukes, gamesense and know about respecting sniper sightline lol.. Oh and rocket jumps
@@atomicc_43 almost any position can be a sniper sightline
@@atomicc_43 Yeah but see a good Sniper can make literally any area of the map his sightline
@@terrypennington2519 I have never played with these magic MLG snipers everyone talks about, 900 hours in. Most snipers are barely a nuisance, good ones can be respected and countered. I really feel like this is getting out of hand, and I main Demo.
It can be but most routes have a flank from which you can easily take out the sniper
Thanks for this video. This discussion annoys me because it shouldn’t be debatable. He’s the only long range class in the game. No one can match him and the fight is based solely on if he can hit the shot.
Only fair fight against sniper is when you catch him off guard.
And let's just agree that if you catch someone off guard, it shouldn't be a fair fight.
@@nihili4196 Well let's think about if you catch sniper off guard. He has the jarate bushwacka combo, he has random crits, and he has a handful of anti-spy weapons. Snipers fighting chance up close is too reliable for it to be his weakness. And the class thats supposed to specialize in getting that close has the DISADVANTAGE in that fight.
Even look at the DDS. Its meant to counter flares, because flares are ANNOYING for sniper. The one thing that can reliably screw with snipers aim has been nerfed to no longer do that. They just don't care with this class.
There's 3 things that I IMO are a major flaw in the game's design:
- the sniper class is strong af
- the spy class is weak af
- engineer stacking is a free win on defense and offense
I would add in Heavy being too one-note and also probably how much weapons are centric on countering only specific classes (Ex: Lots to counter spy, spycicle/DDS for pyro matchup, etc.)
Sniper is by far the greatest point and click adventure game in Gaming history
if they actually make anything for april fools i'm betting half a cent it's gonna be a point and click adventure game with sniper as the main character, it'd only make sense for the only class that could theoretically play the game like a point and click adventure
I feel like one thing that should be brought up more is the nature of sniper rifles themselves, they are meant to be "unfair" weapons, so trying to balance them in any enviroment meant to be balanced is an almost futile attempt, you either give a sniper rifle to everyone or you don't give nothing of the sort at all
the only game where snipers work is in counter strike, because everyone holds a mini sniper rifle
according to that logic shotguns should one shot at a range of 40 meters and burning players should have run around flailing and screaming until they die
@@user-lw2yb9ln7r what does this mean???? a sniper rifle is supposed to be you kill them before they could even see you which isnt very fun to fight
@@return4887 it means that you can shoot a rocket under your feet to fly, get sprayed with a minigun and live, get shot with a crossbow and feel better, and that you can shoot someone with a shotgun from 20m about 90 times before they die even though actual shotguns are effective at a gigantic range
Tldr, shotguns arent fair either, thats why they arent almost ever realistic, and thats why the sniper rifle can be like that too
Sniper needs to be treated the same way the other bad design choice was treated (random crits)
IE every community server removing it
I like the dynamic between spy and sniper. They're both support classes. competitively they're both considered the only pick classes, but one relies entirely on your skill and how well you can take down your enemy while the other relies on their skill and how well they can prevent you from taking them down. One puts the power in your hands, while the other puts the power in theirs, and only one of these is a pick class, the other becomes a power class.
I came up with the idea that all rifles should have random spread unless you actually charge. The damage won’t increase, the max it’ll do is 150, but it’ll be more accurate the longer you charge.
This is a very unique and surprising argument to hear. I never even thought of how TF2's fight base is formed in a very short-mid range rule and really does bring a strong point of how this pick class is able to give itself the cloaked spy treatment, then only requiring basic game sense and aim.
Kudos!
And positioning and aim and not getting flanked by a scout...
@@vyor8837 Positioning isn't required, most maps have obvious sniper sightlines, and as said in the video, sniper makes any position good.
@@vyor8837 hence why they said "basic game sense and aim" also flanking a sniper is easier said than done, since there's usually a sentry and a whole team of players cutting the flank route off.
unless you're a scout using bonk atomic punch, which makes flanking a lot easier in general.
@@badideagenerator2315 Or rocket jumping, or trimping, or Hype, or grenade jumping, or just spy in general...
@@vyor8837 rocket jumping makes you easier to hit because you're following a predictable trajectory, demonights get shredded by sentries and neutered by pyros, and spy lacks the tankiness needed to go toe to toe with a sniper in close quarter combat thanks to jarate.
I don't think sniper's damage is the problem, though that was just one statement, rather I think the problem is his pick rate. If I play sniper, I can kill multiple players within a VERY short time frame. I think the problem lies with his efficiency in those quick kills. As a pick class, if we increased the time slightly before headshots register or decrease the firing speed we could delegate to sniper as a more methodical, high priority, pick class where it removes sniper's ability to so quickly kill a pocket and their medic, or 2-3 players within like 2 seconds. That way, a sniper would need to stay back and choose shots wisely, would be very vulnerable to players pushing his space, and give spy the role of taking out multiple players in short succession, thus giving us two "kinds" of pick classes. The sniper: a slower single target killer or the spy: a potential chain stabber that can ruin support roles behind enemy lines.
It's all theory but as someone who plays a lot of sniper I wouldn't mind seeing him have a more designated role in picking others
I think the damage is a major part of the problem. Honestly, a lot of sniper's pain-points usually coalesce into one basic theme: He picks people too easily, and too frequently. Lowering his damage, therefor necessaitating him to scope in, is basically the same as changing his fire rate - though changing the fire rate/animations is a harder nerf (might be more accepted by the community tho). There's multiple solutions to this problem that all are more or less effectively the same. That's part of, I think, what makes sniper so annoying - there's like 10 ways to solve his pain points and 0 have been taken.
@@kalukagamingfellaguy Wouldn't having a really long reload animation help better for it? That way, he would be able to instantly kill people, but he would have to commit to each single shot. It would reward patience and timing if each time he shoots he becomes defenseless for a few seconds at a time.
Now thats a good suggestion
Once i heard idea about making sniper have clip, but not 25 bullets in a row, and thats perfectly suits for more precise and slow pick class, by making sniper's misses less forgiving
@@kalukagamingfellaguy There's not too much you can do to lower the damage, imo a quickscope headshot bare minimum has to do 125 damage to counter a hardscoping sniper.
Yeah I'm incline to agree, about how quick Sniper can get kills. I would also like to add how long sniper can sustain holding an angle, with his 25 ammo and no need to actually reload. And thanks to his high ammo reserves he has no trouble finding ammo in ammo boxes to keep shooting and keeping a sightline locked down. If Sniper had like, 10 or 12 ammo instead, he'll need to be less trigger happy and look for more high value targets instead of just killing everyone he sees, and to make charged headshots a better idea instead of multiple quick headshots.
Oh and btw, your idea of slowing down how quickly Sniper can shoot also buffs Sniper's hardest counter, another Sniper. Because if Sniper A waste his shot on a Scout, Sniper B can take his time lineing up a headshot or just strait go for a fully charge bodyshot, at which point Sniper B can go uncontested on Sniper A's Team. Make's Sniper duel's more tense and important.
I’m not an expert but I think that if snipers base damage were decreased below 125 damage it would really ruin sniper v sniper matchups, as you would have to always charge up to some amount and not be able to instant kill the other person and have to find cover while your charging up. At least from a sniper mains POV I guess.
Sniper v sniper is already a complete joke anyway. The vast majority of snipers just fake out scope/second scope to have the easy shot. Personally I don't resort to such tactics and just go for a shot, which you would find is rather satisfying when it headshots the sniper that is just dancing around for his second scope.
i dont see the problem with lowering snipers health below 125, other than no other classes being that low health i think itd be fine
I think sniper is much more interesting in competitive game modes such as 6s (idk as much about highlander), as he is only really viable in specific situations but if you’re good enough you can have a massive impact. You also have to be much more careful because against a coordinated team, you will get locked out by explosive classes which often means you have to risk dying to do anything meaningful, as opposed to pubs where you can just sit in the back of the map and farm the lobby.
Highlander Sniper is hard.
yeah, a big part of the problem is that when you have 11 teammates standing around, building sentries, revving miniguns and pyro-ing anything that comes close, it's very hard to exploit snipers in close range.
if the whole lobby is just a few people and they're all hypermobile classes, sniper suddenly becomes a mouse trapped in an eagle sanctuary. a mouse with a gun, but still.
If having a skill issue was a person:
"just dodge the hitscan"
I don't think there's really one catch-all solution to the issue with Sniper, but I think Shounic's proposal would help a lot on its own. His idea (and he tested this on his server too) was that Sniper's laser pointer becomes an actual laser instead of just a barely visible dot (sort of like how MvM Sniper bots work). It much more clearly telegraphs the Sniper's location and gives you a general idea of how much vision they have and where. Of course, it still doesn't fix the quickscoping issue, but again, Sniper has multiple problems and as such would require multiple solutions.
that could be worked around by more skilled snipers but it would help
My idea is to lower the sniper rifle's based damage to 25 (fully charged shots still do 150 damage on bodyshot and 450 on headshot) and taking damage while scoped drains your charge meter, this will make it that you have to be careful where you position yourself and also so that the enemy can do something to protect themselves instead of just hoping the sniper would miss his shot
Scorchshot pyros are gonna be so happy
Very bad take, enemies can already use flank routes and unpredictable movement against sniper. Sounds like you just don't know how to use cover. Also, since when did sniper not have to care about his positioning? U sound like a pyro main (reet ard)
@@ieatpaper a quick shot basically invalidates positioning.
@@Sol_Aureus Fuck do you mean? If you're behind cover you literally cannot be shot, and jiggle peaking cover significantly lowers your chances
@@ieatpaper In other words, the presence of a single Sniper locks down an entire area, requiring the other team to use other routes specifically to avoid engaging directly with a sniper unless they want to die. Yeah, sounds fair.
Ah, our silly dreams of Valve doing something to improve the game.
The vacinator and betallion's backup are also effective against sniper thanks to the resistances; bullet resistance vacinator now he can't one shot anyone at all, since jt takes away the crit and lowers the bullet damage, same for the betallion.
The vacinator - It's like trying to airblast with pyro. Except you only have 4 bubbles at most and the sniper never has to take a break to reload. That's if you even know he's about to shoot, to activate the bubble. Otherwise, the passive 10% resistance won't do much.
betallion's backup - sure, all you need is to do 600 damage to have protection for only 10 seconds, after which you need to do 600 damage again. Not exactly effective i would say.
@@NuStiuFrate Given just how much fire those you use the bubbles on is usuallu under; and as i have had personal experiance with, you have way more then 4 bubbles while a sniper is actuvely firing at you. All thanks to how fast it generates uber, even when you run out of bubbles you usually have another 3 seconds later.
Once its actively rolling, it can take an entire team just to kill you a single time; unless they keep you dead too, its not that difficult to set back up in a hurry.
@@voidhunter2800 Well i simply don't share that experience. All it takes is two damage sources and the uber will be gone faster than you can recharge it. It's an awesome item but not the constant uber monster it's made out to be.
All it takes is one second to not have uber popped and your target could be dead or half dead. Or you pop and they can just...wait safely away or snipe someone else.
@@NuStiuFrate The bubble lasts longer then it takes to get 1 charge.
@@voidhunter2800 Wait, i'm confused. According to the wiki, if target is under 100% health, it charges 4.175% per second. So in those 2.5 seconds, you would charge 10.4%. You need 25% to pop an uber.
Am i not reading the info correctly?
And i don't think you can consistently keep someone alive but under 100% health for long. They either die or you overheal them.
Where I think the problem with valve's philosophy for sniper to pick off high value targets, comes at a cost of him just being too good all around. And spy being his "counter" is so null cause nobody likes playing spy and sniper has so many ways to deal with spy specifically. And because he does the best behind the lines of combat, he'll most likely be somewhere behind his teammates, giving the sniper an indefinite defense as long as he moves with them. Not this isn't to say he doesn't have weaknesses with close range, but if you get in a zone that allows for him to benefit off his kit, you're most likely fucked. Oh and let's not forget that being the only precision based character (not really counting a medic with crusader crossbow, a solider with direct impact, or any class with a shotgun or pistol as they have there limits) pros with the character are some of the scariest, right next to soldiers and spy's
Spy being the class that no one wants to play? Sorry, but spy is one of the most popular classes to play. Everybody agrees Spy is the weakest (unless you are a fucking god at trickstabs), but its playstyle is so unlike anything else a shooter is all about that it draws people into it.
I love playing spy
Guess I don't like playing spy anymore after reading this comment.
"nobody wants to play spy" dude in most lobbys there are often like 3 spys and i can see why, like spy is one of the deepest classes as there is a 4 hr in depht tutorial only for the circle strafe stab by crd.
Sniper players then proceed to quickscope its supposed counter.
I feel like if Sniper had started with the huntsman instead of a rifle then I probably wouldn't have any problems with sniper. He would be at the same level as the other classes when it comes to Close-Mid range combat. Would just need some fine tweaking to his stats to make him a tad more viable for Close to mid range and bam he's now brought to everyone else like it should've been
this exactly. with some fixing to the huntsmans confusing hit reg ive always thought that it just flowed with the rest of tf2s gameplay so much better, it feels much more engaging to be mid range and near the fighting. i also like that you still have an option for long range but its much harder to pull off consistently (would be even more so if the hitboxes were fixed a bit) so huntsman sniper naturally rewards you for taking more risks like every other class in the game
@@meowdderall ehh, ability to peek a corner and insta kill a 450 hp heavy is kinda bs, sniper simply has to go.
@@addchannelname9021 huntsman does 360 damage max (which is still a single shot given a heavy doesnt have overheal) if the hitboxes were somehow fixed i would argue landing a fully charged headshot like that can be rewarded with taking out a heavy. sniper is still supposed to be a pick class. obviously there would have to be balancing in terms of the huntsman still letting sniper decimate people at short range which is supposed to be where the class is vulnerable. but as a sniper you should still be able to actually pick off high value targets. i just think theres better ways around the issue that arent "remove sniper"
@@meowdderall When Huntsman is shot without charging 100 power (then use SMG) to finish off light classes, when fully charged it does 360.
I appreciate the reference to my favourite game Fallout New Brunswick and my favourite character Benny "shitting since the beginning" Benson
This guy just keeps impressing me. Not even just the analysis, though that's not bad. It's the little flourishes that many leave out that tell me that there's some massive potential here.
And to top it off the guy plays Asteroid? Holy shit dude. NOBODY plays Asteroid, that takes me back.
Funny you mention the classes becoming part of the problem if they were given a mini sniper which is exactly why the spy got the amby in the sniper vs spy update then later got nerfed because multiple tf2bers voiced how they felt spy was turning into a sniper with the amby.
In well balanced games sniper is just another class. People think he is bad/op because sometimes the teams are not balanced, and you have people running in straight lines. A lot of players don't respect the sightline and then complain when a sniper kills them.
This is true for most classes, a soldier main that is amazing at rocket jumping will destroy a team that wont try and work around that, a really good heavy will destroy a team made up of many low health classes. If a pyro is really good at airblasting a soldier that only shoots rockets at him will never kill him. You just need to know how to counter them.
then in open map you can't do anything. and we're not even counting the other team.
I'd propose this simple change: getting a headshot with less than half of the charge meter counts as mini crit. If this is too harsh (which imo isn't) then make it less than 1/3 of the charge meter.
immediate headshots go from 150 damage to 68. That is quite the nerf
What about changing the quick scope headshot damage from 150 to 135?
Medics would be close to death
most light classes that bug sniper would die ( excluding an overhealed kunai spy )
soldiers as well as demomen will have a tough time fighting, but not an immpossible one
and you can still do a quick 3 headshots in a row to a heavy and kill em
That's a lot nicer than what I was thinking. I was thinking no bonus headshot damage what-so-ever if it's below 25-50%. And also make it a reverse ambassador nerf, where Sniper can ONLY do headshot damage from long range, if it's mid to short range, nothing happens.
I have a lot more nerfs in mind, like laser sights, lower health,or low ammo. Valve obviously isn't going to remove Sniper from the game or anything, so I think he just needs to be taken down a lot.
@@dexterity494 well yeah that's what it's supposed to be, I don't see why snipers should be rewarded with an easy kill for shooting 5 out of 9 classes without any charge. Like i said devs could tinker with what charge counts as crit headshot. They could make it 1/4th of charge meter, 1/3rd or 1/2.
@@history_enjoyer_ sniper quickscope cooldown is 00:20 seconds he shouldnt be able to do even 135
i have the feeling that if the huntsman (or a weapon similar to it) was sniper's default weapon from the start nobody wouldve hated the class like we do now because of how the huntsman functions, like, yeah it does have a janky hitbox, but otherwise its THE weapon that makes sniper fair to fight against and its a fun weapon to use
turn all the sniper rifles into bows & arrows that would be cool i think
People really are argueing about balance when it's about design. It doesn't matter if sniper's weak or strong, when your only counterplay to potential instant death is to notice two pixels five miles away and avoid half the map, that's bad design
Is it just me or has a giant echo chamber of "sniper is not bad you're just coping" been existing for years now and they actively attack people who even think about sniper being badly designed
At least it feels that way sometimes
Good video tho, loved it
It’s clear there is a cognitive dissonance. It’s probably all the people with 18k kills on their sniper rifle.
@@christopherdavis7069, there is a joke that only sniper mains defend snipers and after thinking about it it does have a point from my personal experience with sniper mains
Sniper is not bad and you're coping because your movement and situational awareness is bad. 5000 hours here and i've never thought that sniper is annoying to fight.
there is a guy doing it right now in the comment
On the other hand, there's a giant echo chamber of players who pretend like every sniper in their lobbies is Shroud himself and ignore that 99% of pub snipers are throw picks who achieve 1 kill every 5 minutes.
Everyone talks about giving sniper reverse damage falloff, but what about also just some regular falloff. It helps cap his range without having to renovate every map in tf2.
Give sniper a stricter sweet spot at medium range?
As a sniper main I like hitting shots, but I also live to be in the action so making his range a little shorter doesn't bother me.
Doesn’t that defeat the point of sniper? Being a long range class? Falloff or reverse fall off just doesn’t work on sniper.
@@thebushbros6626 I wouldn't want it to neuter his ability to deal any damage with a fully charged shot, but intead make quick scoping less effective.
Basically it makes him have to commit more to long range positions.
Edit: spelling
@@nak_0519 The issue is making quick scopes less effective makes hard scopes an even bigger problem which just makes sniper more boring to play and makes fighting him even more annoying. And I’m saying this because this was the exact result of what happened the last time a balance mod nerfed quickscopes, and it didn’t end well and quickly had to be reverted.
I have finally found you. The one other person that actually wants to nerf snipers range. I am so happy rn. I have been saying this since like 2018, but no one would listen.
@@theblakwarior sniper is literally a long range class. that's his entire point. tf2 might not be the game for you if you can't adapt to different class playstyles.
I comment this on just about every video on the topic but I firmly believe they would only need to add two changes to sniper to make him bearable to play against, and they really wouldn't even need to touch quickscopes to do it. 1. Replace the dot with a laser like the wrangler and MVM sniper bots have. A class that can instantly kill you from a range at which you cannot engage him should be forced to announce himself before he does. Not only would this make it a lot easier to actually avoid the sightline, it would make it easier to throw off his aim since you can see exactly where he is aiming at all times. 2. Sniper becomes marked for death when scoped and shortly after unscoping. This makes it so that FAR more weapons can actually pose a realistic threat to a sniper at medium to long range. Pistols, rockets, pipes, stickies, miniguns, etc would all pose a significant threat since now, sniper himself no longer benefits from the existence of damage falloff when he is scoped in. He is no longer able to tank damage while hunting for heads in any meaningful capacity.
With making him marked for death while scoped, this would also open the window for rebalancing many of his other weapons to make them more viable in comparison to their counterparts. For example, the classic could have the benefit of not applying the marked for death stat until fully charged, the huntsman would have neither a laser nor a marked for death stat, the cozy camper could make it so that the marked for death stat goes away only when fully charged, etc.
As a Sniper main, this is the only proposal I actually think could work.
Damn, thats a really good and creative solution.
the laser idea is decent but i really don't like the marked for death idea. it feels too artificial and forced, especially considering that the sniper will have that skull and crossbones over his head most of the time. I think a better idea would be to rework the aimpunch while he is scoped in to something more drastic so that every hit while he's scoped will take 1 second to reset his view back to normal.
My proposals would be the following:
-10 rounds max ammo
-increase the aimpunch while scoped in (think csgo unarmored headshot aimpunch but with a 1-2 second time to reset back to normal)
@@melc311 All that does is allow you to *pester* the sniper at range. I think careless snipers should be *dying* to other classes beyond mid range, not being mildly annoyed by increased aim punch. Sniper is a glass cannon with a horrible glass:cannon ratio, he needs to be significantly weaker to getting spammed out at range, and increased aim punch doesn't go far enough imo.
@@melc311 agree with you, marked for death is basically punishing the player for playing said class. imo giving sniper laser would be a great thing and less ammo would do great but let's make it 20 ammo.
The funny thing about nerfing snipers damage is that it makes him MORE oppressive. Which sounds insane into you realize that snipers main counter is sniper, so without sniper being able to one shot another sniper uncharged, an established sniper is even harder to get rid of.
So I say he needs a max hp nerf, bring him down to 100. This will also mean a lot of things can now one shot him, like up close rockets and meatshots, demo pipes, and his max overheal becomes 150, so he can never survive a quickscope headshot.
thats only if you nerf snipers damage beyond a certain point.
i do agree with the max hp nerf
I wouldn't even be upset if my flanking was invalidated by a close-range headshot. Give sniper a reverse damage falloff, where he can't headshot at all when too close.
incredibly dumb idea. if you get head shot at close range, it means your movement is bad and predictable. if they miss that shot, they're dead. literally skill issue.
then the ambassador should be buffed back to the way it used to be. If the long ranged class' weakness of being caught in short range doesn't matter, than the short range class should be able to snipe
I came up with a weird idea: Give the manmelter a Pierce through resistances stat like the enforcer. (Bear with me)
Flare guns are a good long range option against Sn*pers, and the manmelter has the fastest projectile speed in the game, if it had that stat it would be the best Sn*per counter in the game, it would negate the Darwins danger shield, at the well balanced cost of having to remain with a lackluster secondary against every other class.
How about we fix the pierce mechanic before giving it to others. And just revert the danger shield because harassing a sniper with flares was one of the few ways to "counter" sniper. Amazing with all the stuff they nerf or buff in this game they keep buffing sniper.
The Darwiin's problem was the bullet resistance PLUS 25HP. now, it could get the HP increase back
As for quckscoping, a slight increase of 0.2 to 0.5 for minimal charge would balance it out.
@@bigblue344 But... The Pierce mechanic got fixed in blue moon mate, you're really 5 years too late on that news?
You know, danger shield doesn't have any resist, he just nullifies afterburn
@@luciuswrath290 Don't talk if you don't know dude, the DDS has a 50% flame resistance
Wow what a great and comprehensive video. Good points and you presented them in an interesting and sometimes funny way. Subbed.
I've heard everything in this video before from plenty of other youtubers. However, I have not heard it all in one place nor nearly quite as well formatted, and organized as you. I really liked this video on sniper because it attempts to look at things on a macro and micro scale rather than either or. Although one thing I do think you missed the mark on a little was "There's not really a good solution to the problem" (12:42-12:44). I believe that there are possible solutions aside from the ones mentioned as there is always bound to be. To find these problems however, would require more dedication to testing solutions that is unlikely to happen. Overall great video, it was entertaining, thought provoking, and considered most sides of the argument will relatively high accuracy. Good work!
Immaculate video production. Good job.
The best suggestion I heard was to give the sniper rifle reverse damage fall-off, so shots do less damage the closer the target is
You bring up some very interesting counterarguments and points i never thought of or heard before. Nice work
I agree with the idea of: "the class was flawed from the start, so it isnt fixable". Spy suffers from this aswel, since he is a class born out of gimmics, cursing him for eternity to be nothing more that that: a gimmic.
"pyro cant make his flames go further"
one cone: "im about to end this man whole career"
>complain about sniper being overpowered
>sniper mains tell me he's actually really hard to play
>decide to try playing sniper
>instant 15 killstreak
why are sniper mains like this
Playing sniper on 100% crit servers is chaos, funniest thing is half of the sniper mains with high kill weapons just farm for them on those servers because they cant aim
I appreciated the fever dream towards the end thanks
You should make videos analyzing a lot of mediums. Movies, games, news, etc.
you’re an articulate and straight forward speaker. It’s refreshing.
You're funny and you've brought forth a mighty chuckle from me! Subscribed good man!!
personally I think running with the whole "sniper has a reverse fall off" would be a good idea, since it's hard already to get in pissing distance of the sniper you should be rewarded for it, forcing the sniper to rely on his smg or something else in close range rather than being able to 180 delete spies who sneak up on him. take that literally and actually give him a reverse falloff
also snipers keep point black headshotting me with the huntsman i hate it
S tier description. Don't even have to watch the video to know I'm subbing
9:34 now that is technically true and false, because you can actually boost the range of the flamethrower by being stuck in a position, but increasing your velocity
for example in PL_Upwards, there's a specific spot in the cave in which you can get stuck in, "propel" yourself with a flaregun, and then be able to torch anyone that's anywhere remotely close to the entrance
maybe it wouldn't fix the counter-play issue but we could make sniper's flinching way worse than it's current state, peppering the sniper from for away would flinch him so hard he can't shoot at you for about 0.5 - 1.0 seconds, this should make it so a minigun, pistol or a flare gun shuts down the sniper but the person shutting the sniper down is vulnerable as sniper may shoot him if he stops peppering him
also making it so he can't headshot without half charge should greatly lower the skill ceiling of the class by limiting it's max damage output without removing his "pick class" title, he also retains his infinite range so a good sightline will still make the class quite good
Make it so sniper doesn’t have a sniper rifle. Problem solved. 👍
Firstest more first than you, get destroyed fools, I am the most first that will ever be
Second
5:58 after you said "You can play Spy" my sound cut out and I thought it was some sort of joke on Spy players with the silent gameplay
If spy mains could understand why ambassador needed nerf,
Then I'm pretty sure that snipers would understand it too
Unless they all wear the Anger
I dont remember many spy mains being happy with the nerf to the ambi,
@@craig7415 Of course they were not, who would be damn happy to nerf their favorite class,
Every main spy was really mad at first,
but after a while it seems everyone understood why
Probably same should go with sniper
As a sniper main, I can usually only groan at some of the criticizms that people throw at sniper, but this one is spot on. Snipers main problem is his range. If we seperate the four range categories, short range were scout is most effective, mid range were solider is most effective, and "long" range, which for me is about the maximum arch of a pipe or a bit more than the range of a sentry. Then we have very long range. Think the cabin on upward first to the middle spawn door. Sniper is the only one that can still play within very long range. Every other class just cant interact anymore.
Snipers role is that of a pick class. A person that can remove the main threats, when the rest of the team cant break through. A difference maker. He can still do that at long range, since sentrys cant hit him and he still is outside of the range of other classes, but there counterplay becomes available. You can now actually shoot the sniper. So, for me, any fix that does not severely limit snipers effectiveness in very long range combat uses the wrong approach.
As for quickscoping, while you can't actually dodge hitscan, you can dodge the flick. Predict when your opponent shoots and dodge then. I was once good enough at this that I could outaim pros on pistols in csgo. But thats a skill much harder to pratice than raw aim, so making quickscoping harder makes sense for me. Though I would not want to see it removed. It would take away a lot of the skill expression and would make sniper so much less dynamic.
My Ideal sniper is one that stands just behind the medic in teamfights, killing and weakening key targets. Though there still are times were he needs to take a fight on very long range, but there his position and sightline should be easily visible and his dps severely limited.
I have some ideas what to implement, like ambi damage falloff, the shonic laser when charging, the fish 4 clip garand mags, a disorienting 0.3 sec long scope in animation, but none of them are really creative on my part, or original, so I think the framework here is important not the way it is implemented.
Also hard nerf jarate, DDS, and RZB. They are just bullshit.
Sniper does actually struggle in competitive. This is because he struggles at close range, in a game where every other weapon excels at close range... The bushwacka + jarate combo is still melee, and guns can stay outside of that range pretty effectively. Sniper can hit close up headshots, but people underestimate how difficult and inconsistent these are to pull off, especially if the enemy doesn't run at you in a straight line. Soldiers and demos can very effectively bomb snipers, scouts can effectively flank snipers, and spy can literally go invisible. Just making the statement that "its hard to get behind the enemy team as spy" is very inaccurate.
In most maps, the most effective sniper spot is not close to your teammates. Look at Lakeside, sniper's best position is behind his team, so it makes it easier for someone to come up to him and kill him without protection from his team. Sniper can stand on the point but then he usually gets overwhelmed when they push and is forced to move back, or he contents with spam (and his teammates' hitboxes lol). This really comes down to good map design, though, some maps can be poorly designed or some places on some maps can be designed where a sniper's best position is with his team, this is when he is at his most powerful and most hard to kill.
Overall, sniper's position as a long ranged class in a short ranged game DOES put him at an advantage AND a disadvantage, and map design can help aid it by providing plenty of cover and making his best positions easy to reach for enemy scouts, soldiers, demos, and spies, while also being unattractive to the rest of his team. Also, the enemy sniper in competitive can prove to be a huge roadblock, and enemies can position themselves well to avoid the sniper's sight lines.
You suggest that classes need to have long ranged options to effectively fight the sniper, but this just isn't true.
Also, the suggestion that sniper is a 1 dimensional class to fight doesn't really apply to highlander. Between calling out his position, avoiding his line of sight, flanking him, bombing him, backstabbing him, and counter-sniping him, a team has a lot of options to effectively counter a sniper. The main complaint here is that individual classes don't have enough options to fight him, but the team as a whole has plenty of options. If every single class had many options to counter sniper then he would be kind of useless in competitive and it would require zero team coordination to defeat him.
Yeah, that's the main problem. People really lack coordination in PvP games. That's why spy would be even more despised if it wasn't due to his lack of functionality. People really hates being countered.
casual & comp are completely differant things which arent really comparable
Glad someone is talking about this, as it can ruin any gameplay, especially in places like 2fort, where their sightline nearly covers the entire map.
I think the problem is that people’s aims have gotten so much better
Sniper patch notes:
- Sniper base damage reduced to 40 (headshot: 120)
- Gain charge by tracking targets while scoped, full charge damage is now 150 (headshot: 450)
- Laser pointer is now a full laser beam that becomes more visible as you charge it, leaves behind a trail after firing
- Ammo reduced from 25 to 16, rifle now hard reloads after 4 shots, producing a loud ping sound
Problem solved. Also if you take damage while holding Jarate it breaks on you, so melee sniper is a little less insane.
The best counter to sniper is another sniper. Spy is just their *designed* best counter.
Ultimately, though, there’s nothing to fix here or anything wrong. The class isn’t broken; for an average player, it is functioning as intended.
I will say, with the exception of one collateral damage weapon, the sniper can only target one person at a time. Next to spy, it is probably the class most requiring coordination to face. Sniper is rewarded when other players don’t notice them and when others can’t yet reach them (or see them in the case of opposing snipers).
Ultimately, the cause for all these “solutions” is the case that the class shouldn’t be in the game…but it is-so, these and similar “solutions” wouldn’t really pan out if they coming from that place of removing or minimizing the function of the class.
There isn’t a perfect counter to the class, and I’d argue there shouldn’t be. Rock, Paper, Scissors would be a pretty dull game if rock could actually beat scissors AND paper. If sniper was never in the game, the ire would be on another class, and I’d argue that that might have been in part because his role would have been parceled out to other classes.
It’s a nuanced situation. I see a lot of value in the points raised in this video, and I would hope others would find the same in content disagreeing with it. At the end of the day, though, the sniper is here to stay for good, bad, and everything in between.
"the class shouldn't be in the game... but it is" that perfectly summarises my opinion on sniper
I wish the sniper had a longer times for reload and scope (with an actual scope animation, which I'm sure most sniper mains would enjoy for their mlg montages) just a little longer, not something too stupid
Having all rifles fire tracing bulles would be cool too, all of this + less ammo would make missing a shot more punishing
I think it would also be cool if some rifles had a different scope size and zoom, and were balanced around that
What I am sure tho is that all of those unlockables that just denie any counterplay the sniper could have (darwins, razorback, bushwacka) should be reworked into something else
I think there's a serious problem with map design, which also contributes to the sniper's effectiveness.
If maps had more flank routes, snipers would be at a greater risk if they attempted to shoot from the same position.
The changes I would make to Sniper are making it so that his rifle minicrits on headshots which are not fully charged, making fully charged shots create a tracer round on critical hits, and dropping his kukri's base damage down to 35.
This would force sniper to stay on the move in order to avoid 1v1 engagements and attack from flanks to avoid being detected before he can take the shot.
Definitely agree on the effective range bit. It's funny how even outside of sniper the weapons that break this rule are arguably the best (or historically have been). Like the crossbow, direct hit, tomislav, and shortstop.
I still think the best solution is reducing the rifle's base damage to 45.
I don't think it's unfair for sniper to quickscope the 125 health classes since literally all of those have built in counter measures (engineer stays out of sight, scout is fast, spy invis, and sniper is sniper). But now medics can't get quickscoped and overhealed heavies can't get one shot at all.
Also all classes above 125 health will need to be charged longer to one shot.
Medics also can't be body shot.
Sniper's damage made somewhat sense back in the early days because most players were astronomically worse at the game, and had worse computers, and people would simply just not hit those shots a lot, but now that people have better computers, better everything, even skill, that damage has in a sense been buffed.
when a game with 8 close-range classes decides to add a single long range class, and gives it several tools to fuck over the only class that could counter it
the gaming community as a whole has evolved to be better as well, sniper is more broken than ever in the hands of a skilled player
Clicked on this video expecting Spy
Left with a very good thought that TF2 is so close range that sniper doenst make sense
I love the cdi reference here.
Honestly, there is one other important reason Sniper doesn’t work for this game: Robin Walker himself said so (if this is true).
If one of the main designers of the game regrets a class’s existence, then there’s likely a big problem.
Appeal to authority is a falacy.
Tf2 players on their way to have the shittiest opinions on game balance:
sniper defenders on their way to use any argument possible even if it means disagreeing with somebody who mains the class they're defending:
Reddit style comment, say something unfunny and not adding to the discussion.
I don't completely agree on every point but this is a very good video, good job! Keep it up
I've had this opinion since 2011, everyone has always bitched about Pyro, but sniper has always been the most annoying TF2 character to play against, and the one class that would improve the entire experience, if they were just simply removed.
Wow, I didn’t expect this video to be so based. What I like so much is that you don’t go the “my way or the highway” route with your solutions. You provide both the pros and cons to your solutions, which is something I don’t see too much in the TF2 community. I did go into this video a bit skeptical but, hey, you convinced me. I like the Sniper as a character (lore-wise) but I do think his current state in the game is problematic. But I do think he can still work in a game like TF2 and not be unfair. Personally, I think the solution to the Sniper’s game design should be damage ramp up and damage fall off. What I mean is that I think there should be a specific range with the Sniper’s rifle that allows him to deal high amounts of damage by a specific distance. If you shoot someone too far away (without charging all the way) you can’t kill them instantly and the same goes for enemies that are at a close range. I feel like then he can be a ranged sharp shooter while at the same time not having too high of an advantage. And I don’t think it would effect the play styles of any Sniper mains.
Edit: never mind, I change my rework. I think it should be damage ramp with with the bullet being a really fast projectile so it can be dodged
Wait a minute, this "Drywall" is a delicacy in some places. I have it all the time!
The problem isn't the sniper's damage, it's that he can headshot and crit every time. I think that should be the thing people focus on. Demoman has to wait or kill other players to get a crit. Therefore, I think part of the solution should be changing how headshots work. You need to fully charge for a critical headshot. Until it's 100%, instead it's a minicrit that deals between 100-125 damage (125 damage at 90%+)
Granted this solution isn't great but there needs to be an incentive to charge. The problem is the high reward for low commitment (not saying low effort, I can't play sniper well) in terms of how much threat a good sniper has to put themselves at risk for a quick scope.
minicrits do 35% more damage in tf2
I think there IS a good solution to the sniper problem.
Reverse damage falloff. The closer Sniper's target is, the less damage he does to it. The sniper rifle should be as ineffective in melee range as Heavy's minigun is at long range: almost no threat whatsoever. (And the huntsman should have the opposite -- normal damage falloff.)
There should also be a tracer effect on all sniper rifles, revealing exactly where quick-scope shots were taken. This would add some much needed interactivity to the fights between sniper and his targets. On charged shots, there should be a full-blown laser like you see in Mann vs Machine.
The sniper problem is that he operates at a range were no other class can even interact with him. This solution does not adress this at all. On top of that, it encurages snipers to be more static, stand behind their team, go for very long angles, and generally would still be unfun to fight against. As a sniper main, I fully support normal damage dropoff on sniper.
reverse damage fall off is probably one of the worst ideas i've seen passed around. no, sniper is not powerful at close range just because he can sometimes get a lucky shot if he's skilled enough. stop having predictable movement instead of asking for nerfs. the only problem with the sniper is that other classes can't threaten him at long range.
In TFC, the sniper was entirely unable to headshot until they had full charge.
that is not true, TFC sniper can still headshot with 0 charge.
what are you smoking?? in tfc, the sniper could headshot without even needing to scope
You can call sniper a bad designed class, but never a bad designed character. As a character sniper is perfectly designed, like any characters in this game
100%, he just needs a bit of a nerf
@@gen3vra damn, I was just playing heavy and I was almost topscoring then someone started a vote on me and said "afk heavy useless" and I got kicked. Now I'm depressed :(
@@onemoreoiw4397 i don't know how that relates, but i'm sorry for some goons wanting to kick you so they can topscore easier
That's why I love the characters themselves more than I enjoy the game itself. Sniper is my absolute favourite character, but when it comes to gameplay with him it's frustrating.
One of Shounic's videos features giving Sniper a laser sightLINE, much like the sniperbots in MVM, so that players can more accurately gauge where the sniper is looking, which would at least give people better feedback on how they could've moved to evade a shot while also making the sniper's position more obvious.
I mean people who -have brains- hate sniper really hate him but people who love him are really defensive about him
Alright, this idea isn’t unique or anything, but still.
What if we give sniper a laser sight? Whenever he’s scoping, his sniper rifle will give off a laser sight. This allows the classes to make decisions based around that and also it looks cool. Maybe the machina’s laser to make it’s laser look different, just to differentiate it from the others.
This laser sight wouldn’t apply for the huntsman, since the sniper’s already close enough to the frontline to be at risk.
Still doesnt stop snipers quickscoping
@@meo8258 that’s not the problem I’m trying to solve though. I’m trying to solve the problem where you walk in Wutville then suddenly your head is missing because you didn’t see the sniper camping from the moon.
Why would a bow have a laser sight though :D
@@Xyna7590 I said it wouldn’t…
@@carbag7857 he could still do even with laser though. like i said he would just not use scope when there is no enemies and then quickscope if he sees one. You would still not see him
Well, I had a couple of ideas about changing the Sniper as a class or new ways to kill him without playing as another Sniper. _If you think of Sniper (I'll call him Mr. Mundy) as a realistic class, he's wrong. As I learned, the sniper rifle of Mr. Mundy is based on a real Remington 700 (bolt-action) rifle that has up to 7 rounds per clip (I should note that the Sniper in the game _*_DOES NOT HAVE a clip_*_ and if you think about it, it does not have a reload either)_
*How to fix the problem with the Sniper:*
*1)* Make it more realistic is to add a magazine of up to 7 rounds, so he will have to reload the rifle like other classes. It is possible to make the bullet not as a Hitscan, but as a very fast projectile (but it's still a bullet), which will have the bullet fall in an arc with distance (wind speed and muzzle velocity are not taken into account). I forgot to mention that the rifle buckle was longer in Meet The Sniper, and it was correct, not like in the game...
*2)* Give EACH class a special weapon or gadget that will help them cope with a team consisting only of Snipers. Let's say give the Heavy a special ballistic helmet that is guaranteed to save you from 1-2 headshots (or from one fully charged), but this is just a concept. By the way, instead of a helmet, you can give a Shield, which can also be used to knock back enemies like a Shortstop, but further, it blocks all damage in front, but changing the Shield to another weapon will take more time (for balance, so as not to block everything at once). Or give the classes medium range rifles (M14 for Soldier for example) and other concepts I can think of if you ask.
*3)* Give the Spy a buff (just buff, whatever that it would be: weapon, watches, GrEnAdE or anything) and a direct buff so that he can deal with Snipers more easily. Like adding a new job to the Spy, so to speak (you knew that killing Snipers was optional, right?) Even though Spy is one of the main enemies of Mr. Mundy, no one canceled kukri crits and quick scopes...
By the way, for the Spy, I would protect against melee crits and add that most of these "duels" with swords did not take place in one second and the Spy would have a chance to recoup))
4)The rest of that video)
"I reckon you're gonna get real used to lookin' up at me." ~Mr. Pissman
Can confirm, I said that.
Even though I don't have an issue with sniper, I think an Interesting change would be in give it reverse damage falloff, so closer range shots will do less damage like a quick scope deals 120 up close, making him not able to one shot at what's supposed to be his weak range
My class playtime:
Every other class: 6 hours minimum
Sniper: under 2 minutes
I feel like there is this stigma that every shooter needs a sniper, I personally think that there are many shooters that would benefit from not having snipers at all.
I’m pretty sure sniper is the only class that has a gun that can instantly kill. The rest of the classes can’t unless you count random crits and spy’s knife, but spy at least has to get close to the enemy.
Spy’s diamondback and engies frontier justice when they have garunteed crits which are easy to get and are rewarded for using the classes other abilities. Direct hit solider one shots light classes at max ramp up.
@@succyfish5451 fair enough
They should make it that sniper cannot move while scoped in and make the scope sway.
i agree. i had one of those moments where i was a god at the game and me and the enemy sniper were the entire push. kill me: the enemies push us back. it was so dumb to witness first hand that our lives were the deciding factor in a win
no.
Thank you for covering a topic no one has covered before. Really, when was the last time I saw someone make a video about how sniper is op?
Thanks! I thought bringing some light to the topic was well passed due.
@@kalukagamingfellaguy You know he's sarcastic, right ? EVERYBODY and their mother made videos about "SnIpEr Is BrOkEn/Op"
This is getting tiedious, tbh...
@@drucy. You know he's sarcastic, right?
I could go on for 3 hours about how Fallout New Brunswick is the best one.
Btw cool vid!
1 minute in a I can tell this video is just a giant meme. And I think that's beautiful
This might be the worst take ever
I would really love to know what kind of naive life you live if taking 10 damage off of a video game weapon is the worst take ever lmao
@@kalukagamingfellaguyit really is
@@Svar3n2527 There's no point in replying to this clown... He's just a classic pub lord who can't handle when people are better than him or disagree with him
About 5,000 different people disagree with you fnx
As long as sniper isnt the one consitently number one on the scoreboard, it doesnt really matter that he has the POTENTIAL to kill everyone everywhere. pyro and solider are also annyoing to play against. just nerf jarate and bushwacka and your good lol
I thought I recognised your voice, however I couldn't quite place it until you made the Fallout New Brunswick joke