Bitcoin perfectly defines Bitcoin Cash Absolutely everything that is described in the Bitcoin's white paper, applies to Bitcoin Cash and none of it applies to Lightning network, or does it anywhere say in the white paper that Bitcoin has to be limited to 1MB blocks, there is no mention of users having to fight for block space, no mention of RBF, it clearly mentions that data signature has to be included in the transaction itself while SegWit breaks that rule... so yeah.... Bitcoin is BCH.
Rodger but one thing discussion doesn't make 5 million people adopt action does I still suggest we should move in Venezuela gets Bitcoin cash adoption growing there
Doesn't matter what he or Lee say about which is the real Bitcoin. All that matters is what people decide to use and invest in. I somehow don't think that once Wall Street finishes building gateways into crypto they're gonna talk about which is the real Bitcoin. And I do think they'll invest in Bitcoin because more people have Bitcoin then any other cryptocurrency and it's therefore become a digital store of value. Who cares if you can't buy a coffee with it. You can't buy a coffee with gold either but you can change both gold and Bitcoin for fiat.
Jag Gill while you don't care about what is the real Bitcoin, some of us do as we understand what Bitcoin is about and we know what makes it great to begin with and the power it has because of it, and bankers know it also, which is why they got Blockstream to hijack it, which is why they are paying probably millions for their propaganda campaign, hiring sock puppets on Reddit and TH-cam, twitter etc... to make it look like "users" want Lighting, to make it look like "users" don't like scaling on-chain... but we are not that stupid, we see what is going on, so take your ignorant comment and stick to your "investment" scam.
my admiration to Charlie lee for this patience , very rude how Roger behaved, not cool on his part , with continuos interruptions and not letting Charlie lee explain his points !
More or less, but i would love to debate with Roger about value and money theories, because money in the end is "just" a political contract between users, but nobody still understand this, or very few people, neither the writers of his preferite books i guess, which i have no intention to read, even if he gift me... I'm a quantum politician. ;-)
Martin Sakura I think that you are just biased from questionable Ver’s personality, like 99% of people, and you are not judging the debate and the point made there at all. I really like Lee, however here Ver made a lot of agreeable points!
He is pretty aggressive but that's only because he thinks Bcash is an upgrade which is debatable but it's not that Roger doesn't want to learn anything, it's about him showing and teaching us. He has a lot of valid points and Bitcoin cash in theory may be better than bitcoin core but it all comes down to hash power. splitting the network the way bitcoin cash did gives the network a greater chance of someone owning 51% of the hash power, whether it's bitcoin core or bitcoin cash. So yeah, fork BTC and make a better version of it that fits bitcoins characteristics a lot better but you risk the most important thing that makes bitcoin bitcoin. Decentralization.
Hey there fuckead! You still didn't edit your name? Your comment made me laugh, yo must have some new definition of literal and marriage to come up with that idiotic comment, just how Charlie Lee made up his own definition of what P2P transaction is so that it suits his propaganda against Bitcoin and pro Lightning. Get a brain you moron :-)
If you are a fraud you cannot prove that you are not a fraud, you can only trick people into thinking that you are not a fraud. I am not sure who are you referring to in your comment, if you are referring to Roger as the conman and BCH as "his coin", you are wrong on both accounts because BCH is not Roger's coin in any shape or form, nor is it a scam, and actually performs perfectly well to what it was designed for, while BTC does not, and LTC will not also because of same inherent issue (Core controlling the code and not allowing scaling for the masses). If you are referring to OP, then that would make sense, as OP is just writing crap, because he is not happy that his shitcoin is not making him money and he is blaming Roger and BCH for that. Pathetic people.
Roger is probably one of the greatest ambassadors for Bitcoin! - Which is now Bitcoin Cash! ‘Bitcoin is a Fork, Bitcoin Cash Is the Original Blockchain,’ NIST Report, Page 40 csrc.nist.gov/CSRC/media/Publications/nistir/8202/draft/documents/nistir8202-draft.pdf
Charlie Lee does not like Roger Ver (he has publicly said this), and does not want to sink down to Roger's level. There is not possible to have a discussion with Roger, and Charlie was payed to sit there for the hour. so he did. if you see other discussions with Roger VS XXX, they tend to walk away from his hostility.
@Stein Håvard Ludvigsen Because node operators would all need to go out of their way to block him. If you run a full node it's like blocking a certain IP, you simply don't go out of your way to do that.
@@LucyPero Ver should take his own advise in regards to Charlie not knowing about economics. Ver doesn't technically understand BTC or LN so he should keep his mouth shut.
@@-ED- Censor may not be the correct word but you know what I mean. He cut himself off from the network. It's like opening a shop but never opening the doors to let anyone in.
Reason you have Bitcoin is because Satoshi Nakamoto thought it out, Roger promoted it for many years, and reason you still have just a Bitcoin name, is Core, Blockstream and you useful idiots that parrot around their propaganda. Bitcoin is BCH now... and you don't have any because you are too stupid :-)
-ED- Bitcoin BCH Channel everywhere you read your name and you can not argue. read the whitepaper. BTC is the chain with the most hash power and the largest chain. And? Bcash is Bitcoin? No! Do not tell me you're a paid troll of Roger.
@@-ED- - ED Why will you reply to this but not when I ask you about why you keep liking your own comments and videos multiple times? Is someone deluding themself?
@@-ED- - That's a confession by the way. You are not intelligent enough to realise it is, but it is. The question was on your most recent video, please have a look.
Mate, you are marked as the Core troll on my channel and blocked, so sorry to disappoint you but your question never reached me. I block ignorant souls and trolls like you for a reason, not interested in your blabber and propaganda. I like facts and reason, so when you have some, you will see what I see, you will see what tool you are. Maybe you are living in that movie of yours, which would explain lack of reality.
Charlie is calm and Roger is too aggressive. My money is on Calm. We are entering a new frontier. It's very exciting, as most of you watching can agree.Cash is on its way out, so choose your poison.
Calm and clever, vs aggressive and dumb, roger ver got fucking destroyed on the sha256 question, he thinks 5 minutes into the future, lee thinks manny years into the future, stupid roger ver didnt even think what would happend WHEN sha256 is broken, and it will be at some point, just like sha1 is broken.
@@adriancosta4664 Nigga? Titles come with qualifications. You could say you've self-studied the Austrian school of economics and therefore have an educated opinion. I would respect that. but to say "I consider myself an economist" just because you've read a couple of books is just not right. You did not earn the title. (Being committed to a curriculum and examined for competency)
For the newbs watching, BTC is Bitcoin by consensus. The majority has spoken. To fork bitcoin in favor of one's one business interests is fine, but to name the resulting altcoin "Bitcoin" is total deception. Don't waste your money on Bcash. It only serves the interests of Roger and his cronies.
Bitcoin is BCH Consensus was fabricated by censorship, SegWit is hack of Bitcoin and was forced into BTC by the same people who fabricated consensus Consensus is for the miners and miners also, not the users, that alleged consensus was not only fabricated but is also wrong Core admited that user consensus is bollocks when that massive bug was found in their Bitcoin Core software, which is hacked with SegWit, and was forced into every mining node while some 80% of the nodes in BTC are still affected by this bug and never upgraded. Core don't care as non-mining nodes do nothing for the network, which is another thing Bitcoin Cash supporters kept saying for years, and Core ignored... now truth is out in the open and Core have no choice but to admit that they lied, same as they lied about everything else. BTC is shitcoin altcoin hacked with SegWit and Lightning is a centralised digital fiat banking system created for bankers.... by Blockstream and Bitcoin Core. BCH is the only true Bitcoin
No one cares if you think your alticoin called bitcoin cash is "the real bitcoin" or if Ethereum Classic is the real Ethereum. BTC and ETH are the real kings, the majority has spoken. Sit down bitcoin crash fan BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH
I love BCH just as much as the next guy, but from an unbiased view point, I would like to try to explain what this video is. Ver obviously paid Charlie Lee for this 1.5 hour long talk. I guess you can call it a debate, but Ver is really using Charlie Lee to explain the faults in what BTC proponents think. For example, how censored r/Bitcoin is, how many people enjoy high mining fees, and BTC's shift away from an eCash network over to a store of value utility. For example, Ver keeps bringing up the idea that BCH is the real Bitcoin, and he does this by outlining a list of requirements needed for Bitcoin to be Bitcoin. He then asks Charlie questions about whether or not this list is valid, all the while correcting him on what he says right after. I don't know if I would call this a debate, since Ver has all the power here due to the fact that he is paying Charlie. Charlie can walk out, but obviously wouldn't get paid. So Ver can be as rude, inpatient, and argumentative as he wants to be. I think Ver is kind of wasting his time trying to claim to be Bitcoin, because that does not matter. What matters is whether or not BCH is a good P2P eCash system. If BCH does what it sets out to do, then being the "real" Bitcoin does not matter. I suppose being considered the real Bitcoin does well for brand recognition, but given the proper amount of time BCH will develop a brand recognition of its own. If BTC wants store of value utility, that's great! This gives BCH the opportunity to fulfill the utility of P2P eCash. We just need to wait and see how this scalability race turns out.
8:30 This sums up the fundamental problem with people these days. They think words don't have meaning essentially because they do not want to admit the fact that they're wrong.
It's hard to watch someone try to debate like a fourth grader. If I talk over you I win the argument. I don't disagree with everything Ver says, but he doesn't seem to know how to talk things out in a actual two way conversation.
There is no such thing as Btrash. There is such a thing as you being a dumbass, and there is such a thing as Bitcoin Cash, which is only true implementation of Bitcoin.
To understand the problem with BCH all you need to do is watch this video. Ver as the face and spokesman of BCH will continue to stifle any chance of success.
Bitcoin Cash doesn't have a "face" all of us from Bitcoin Cash community are behind it. You don't understand anything about Bitcoin either, if you did, you would know its not a business, its not a company, its a decentralised, open source software which enables people to get rid of the centralised shit that central banks are, especially private central bank from US and UK, and allows people to transact cheaper, safer, without intermediaries which are parasites on humanity and are among the ones creating all the wars and corruption. So get a clue, stop being such a useful idiot and smarten the fuck up. You should also know that you represent the face of the ugly Core cult club, so get a life moron.
Sadly many will call it green as if that was now the new universal truth. Some ppl are just stupid by default. They have someone else even more stupid to decide for them to what the truth is. Thats why the world is in such a poor state. Just look at this comments. People make decisions based on emotions. Charlie is calm I believe him . . . they can not be further from truth!
"Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?" "Is that what you're saying?"
I'm am the average Joe that makes less than $40,000 a year, Father of 4 boys and a lovely wife. When I got into Bitcoin early last year I invested in altcoins. I stayed away from Bitcoin. I'm giving The world my unbiased opinion because I don't own any Bitcoin. Having experienced purchasing and sending Bitcoin from exchange to exchange for the sole reason of purchasing altcoins and having purchased some low priced things with Bitcoin ( like my bitpay visa) I can tell you that using Bitcoin is extremely frustrating. Not only is it extremely slow and extremely expensive, but it made me anxious and nervous when I had to complete transactions using Bitcoin. One day I finally decided to try out Bitcoin Cash and it is the opposite experience of Bitcoin. Fast and cheap. Sorry but Bitcoin Cash in my opinion is the real Bitcoin. I don't care about what other people say, I have my own personal experiences that tell me Bitcoin sucks and Bitcoin Cash is the way Bitcoin was meant to be.
-ED- Bitcoin BCH Channel Hahahahaha what a nice face you put on bcash, good job man, i love it, just stay a rude asshole like that, then bch will for sure never get big :D
The moment Roger starts feeling like he's losing in a particular part of an argument he changes the topic to 'intrinsic value' over and over. How can it be so obvious to everyone but him?? Not to mention the fact that his argument on intrinsic value is pure semantics on the word intrinsic.
Robert Bee in his mind he’s right and he has to attack every other opinion that challenges his one regardless of how ignorant or stupid he sounds just repeating himself 🤦🏻♂️ never liked him
Your argument is "laughable" - "pick up a dictionary" - "you just dig yourself in a deeper hole" - he keep being so condescending towards Charlie Lee (that is just within 5 mins in the video). He is so rude and arrogant! He is talking like he is so clever, smart and the best guy in the world.... but he is only obnoxius when he try to show that side...
HAHAHA, more like Charlie Lee is jealous as he is copy cat "creator' of a shitcoin, used as testing shitcoin for a shitcoin whose code he knows nothing about as its code fully depends on coders of this other shitcoin who hijacked Bitcoin name and turned it into a SegWit shitcoin. I know you didn't get any of this, too complex for your shitcoin loving brain.
Rodger gives himself way too much credit. You fall for it? Check out how humble Charlie is. He may be the real Satoshi. I mean look how much he cares about bitcoin
I now see why people hate Roger Ver. For one, he redefines words to try to win small arguments. For example he claims everything has an intrinsic value of zero. Economics and finance disagree with that statement, and then he calls himself an economist. He is a demigod because of his following but his logic is flawed. Get over the white paper. I don't want the Bitcoin of 2008, I want the Bitcoin of 2040. The technology needs to be free to evolve.
He said nothing has intrinsic value (which he is right btw). Plus he was correct on the point about the "prices of production" theory. Something isn't necessarily valuable just because you have spent time on making/creating it.
its soo hard to argue roger ver.. if he has an idea you HAVE to say hes right otherwise he will cut you and try to make you say thing until you do... thats not a way to debate.. he hardly let charlie finish an argument... and when he start something tho dont try to stop him... it not that i dont like bitcoin cash, but roger ver make it hard to love his view, he want it soo bad to push it down your throat.. not the way i like it...
Acting like a kid and cutting someone who trying to make a point... if very childish. shoving something down the throat of someone and never letting them finishing a sentence or idea (it a way to make them forget their point)is not a way to debate... When my daughter cut me.. i tell her: put your hand on my arm, ive notice you wanna say something, lemme finish what im saying and ill listen after... Thats a skill roger ver should learn... Im not saying BCH or BTC is better or worst.. im just saying roger ver is bad representive for BCH and he his very unprofessional. We have freedom of speech soo he can represent whatever he want but i can tell you something, i will not love BCH more because roger ver shove thing down my throat, its quite the opposite.. Its not a competition, we need crypto in the world, we need both BTC and BCH... thats what roger ver doesnt seem to ignore, everything isnt always black or white... imagine if Roger Ver used his energy to promote BCH and crypto instead of spending all his energy to bash on BTC, maybe people would like BCH more... We need to build together and not agaisnt... Roger ver make me think of an old Ex-girlfriend that wanna show you why shes better off without you!!!
Synbitz Seven you know in life and everything it’s not about wining all the time!! The way you win is to me as important as the win itself!! If you win fair and square fine!! But Lee couldn’t never finish an idea!! I don’t think this was a debate it was more roger ver intimidating mr lee... yeah he won by bullying... How many time did you hear mr. Lee ask roger : “lemme finish”!! That not debating... Roger ver looked like a spoiled kid!! I had to force myself to watch it all!! Mr lee is a patient man we have to agree on that!
Synbitz Seven true he couldn’t refute any but could he... when someone cut you soo many time you lose your idea or anyway to follow up because roger keep throwing him all around... Im pretty sure that the culture Charlie come from isn’t used to be intimidated which as prolly thrown him off his game, Asian are way more respectful!!! And roger didn’t refute litecoin was a better bitcoin in 2017!! The only argument that roger has is that bch is closer to the white paper!! I mean if you take anything in computer sciences... you know that you never stay with v1.0... app evolve et upgrade... Another example of that is Conor mcgregor! He intimidated soo many opponent.. but Khabib didn’t care about that!! I’m just saying one day roger ver will get smack in the head and I won’t be sad.. See even you can argue better then him!!
Just cuz Roger is saying Bitcoin cash is Bitcoin doesn't mean everyone is thinking the same way, hell no. The community has spoken and Bitcoin is Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash is an altcoin and even Jihan said it. Bitcoin
I must say I prefer Charlie's outlook. He has a bachelor and masters in CS. Roger is out of his depth in regards of talking about the technical aspects of bitcoin. Bitcoin is not bitcoin Cash
Roger is trying to make his self more important than the agenda of crypto. He is no different than those greedy hedge fund managers. Charlie, Thanks for all you do
Please GOD make this joke thats called Bitcoin CASH disappear one time earlier... how tf are we expecting mass adoption and no coiners to take us serious when shit like this is still debatable.. BITCOIN=BITCOIN.. THE BTC VERSION.
Your response is akin to insulting Christians for believing in God and the Bible out of principle and dedication. it's obvious he cares about the original mission of Bitcoin, and like myself, is quite disappointed in the current state of BTC's utility. BCH actually has a real use.
OMG I came here for the debate and instead Roger is interupting every minute, its really hard to listen to this. This is not real debate. (I am not anti BTC Cash)
Major props to Charlie for debating. Both made good points. I just wish Roger would interrupt a little less and next time remove the guy laughing in the background. Left a bad taste in my mouth.
I couldn't watch more than 8 mins of this - Roger Ver is insufferable with his interruptions, non stop talking and aggressive posturing. All gets lost in translation because he's a lousy communicator.
Same here Vishy. I got ten minutes in before I had to quit. Ver never shuts up he just rants and rants and rants. He must think being glib and vociferous makes you knowledgeable. It doesn't it just irritates people
I like roger, but he was a bit too aggressive in this one. lee had some good points he should have been allowed to elaborate on a bit more instead of being stopped all the time.
It is interesting how off putting Roger's tone is. It is the essence of an ego driven communication: Dogmatic - always referring back to bitcoin.org content from many years back, even when things have evolved. Arguing from some kind of ab-initio point that he defined. Combative and defensive when there is no need to. Seeking some kind of "victory" or "I-told-you-so" attitude that NOBODY else cares about. Charlie is an excellent example of how to interact with such a person. Be calm polite and be clear and principled.
Roger Ver's only strength is that he's extremely articulate. I'd like to give credit to the guy. That said, Charlie Lee, imo, was able to clarify and give a proper rebuttal to each of ver's questions from a technical perspective. God, I wish Charlie had a degree in marketing.
The only argument needed is the whitepaper, everything else is irrelevant. Charlie Lee lost this debate in 5 minutes. Watched the whole thing and whilst Roger isn’t perfect on every point, Charlie embarrasses himself several times. BCH is the real Bitcoin.
Roger Ver needs to have more composure. His stance is that he must win. That stance is registered as a lack of security. Insecurity makes a speaker difficult to agree with. This stance Roger need to work on. If he is the spoke person for bitcoin cash he needs to get someone who know how to do PR properly.
Yeah and if roger read this ... look at people's comment. It's synonymous, same issue of people not registering to your style of representing what you believe in.
Roger, why bother having these debates if you are just gonna talk over your guests? I want to hear both of you but god damn you need to not keep cutting the other person off. Other than that, was good hearing you both discuss this and come to some common ground on some topics.
Alright here is the core of the debate: Both Charlie and Roger agree low transaction fees are good, but they differ on how to achieve that. Roger wants to lower fees by increasing the block size, but Charlie believes larger blocks eventually cause centralization and censorship. Charlie wants to lower fees via off-chain 2nd layer (eg lightning), but Roger believes 2nd layer causes centralization and censorship. So both want A (censorship resistance) and B (low fees), but each believes the other’s method for getting to B compromises A. What they should do is acknowledge that A is their common goal, and then get into quantitative calculations to evaluate which method for B is better. This will not be settled with qualitative hand wavy arguments IMO, and constantly rehashing it wastes everybody’s time.
Charlie Lee won. He keep calm and has a better understanding of the underlying technology. Roger Ver keeps saying his own propaganda again and again - he keep interrupt Charlie Lee when he is talking and Roger is like running on 150% (like ADHD) about bitcoin cash is so and so and so... There has been several updates to bitcoin since it was invented - is those wrong as well because it is not like the original invented version? Let the people decide - if they want Bitcoin Cash they will choose it - if they want the real Bitcoin BTC they will choose that - but you can not pressure people into a corner telling them use bitcoin cash.... This starts to feel like propaganda when Roger Ver keep saying the exact same sentence so fast (because he chant it at home in the mirror) so he can press people up in a corner to lose grip of the conversation. Charlie Lee won, hands down.
Miners being paid by inflation + tx fee market = more incentive for miners to mine on BTC = more hashrate = more immutability and censorship resistance, etc.
Good God I can't watch this. Roger Ver is so rude interrupting Charlie Lee all the time. I honestly want to hear what they both have to say but Ver makes it very hard to listen.
Not sure this is a debate as much as it is Roger attempting to impale Charlie with a figurative spear, covered in his narrative. I wanted to take value from this video and understand more about the BCash community, but it wasn't very insightful and was hard to listen to due to Roger coming off as a jerk about everything. Tone of voice, hurling insults, his own lack of knowledge around economics and, ultimately, Roger talking down to Charlie made this a very counter-productive listen.
What do you mean fool? Charlie didn’t know where something got value from? He lost the argument on the economic side. Call me a fool gtfo here. I hate roger ver he’s a clown but he was right. As far as anything cryptography goes or how bitcoin works we all know Charliee lee is much more knowledgeable than roger.
What exactly did Charlie Lee win? Tool of the month? The guy literally created his own definition of what P2P transaction means and turned logic upside down. Maybe this is his thing, he did exact same thing when he dumped his Litecoin, then gave his excuse to idiots HODLing that shit more, saying how he did it because he doesn't want conflict of interest.... you have to mental to buy that excuse... and yet... some people did. If someone came to you and told you do buy and HODL some shitcoin and they said they dumped theirs, would you do it? Seriously... would you? Come on man, if you say yes, you are lying through your teeth, we all know this is bunch of nonsense... and yet... some people have no sense.
it doesnt matter who wins in this 1vs1. The whole world knows what bitcoin is, bitcoin is the 6,6k USD Coin worth ATM, BCH now at 513. When BCH 60K is, and BTC 600, then for me BCH is bitcoin :))
roger got him though on many points and was more willing to concede to charlie's points. charlie was more embarrassed and unwilling to admit his mistakes.
I watched this video, because I honesty wanted to educate myself about BCH. I think that Roger's style of debating is a really poor advertisement for his cause. His argument about Satoshi's original vision reminds me of christian cults trying to tell you what the first century christianity was intended to be, instead of admitting that societies chance. And I used to be one of those people.
In the court of public opinion BTC is bitcoin. Roger can be right all day about all his points but at the end of the day he can't sway public opinion. Being correct is intrinsically worthless.
Roger Ver's points were pretty much spot on. Charlie made a good point with the SHA256 breaking which Roger corrected his position. Even though the interruptions were unpleasant, they are important to having discussions/debates to clarify points and usages of words to move forward. But all in all some very good points coming from Roger.
Through the long discussion, satoshi's whitepaper isn't only the bible. Roger go hard and follow the whitepaper word by word. Charlie want to maintain, development or upgrade the bitcoin. And two expert keep fighting definition at the crypto-door.
Low fees are important for everyday use adoption. BTC transactions cost me $2.00 while BCH transactions cost $0.01 so BCH is the better bitcoin. Lightning mobile hosted wallets do not hold private keys. BCH wallets do hold your private keys. Remember, not your private keys; not your bitcoin. Based on the merits of the facts presented; Bitcoin Cash is a better Bitcoin.
![Roger Ver Debates Charlie Lee [PART 2] - Does Bitcoin Have Intrinsic Value?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pVFA4mO2AbQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Who do you think won the debate? What defines Bitcoin to you?
Bitcoin perfectly defines Bitcoin Cash
Absolutely everything that is described in the Bitcoin's white paper, applies to Bitcoin Cash and none of it applies to Lightning network, or does it anywhere say in the white paper that Bitcoin has to be limited to 1MB blocks, there is no mention of users having to fight for block space, no mention of RBF, it clearly mentions that data signature has to be included in the transaction itself while SegWit breaks that rule... so yeah.... Bitcoin is BCH.
Rodger but one thing discussion doesn't make 5 million people adopt action does I still suggest we should move in Venezuela gets Bitcoin cash adoption growing there
Doesn't matter what he or Lee say about which is the real Bitcoin. All that matters is what people decide to use and invest in. I somehow don't think that once Wall Street finishes building gateways into crypto they're gonna talk about which is the real Bitcoin. And I do think they'll invest in Bitcoin because more people have Bitcoin then any other cryptocurrency and it's therefore become a digital store of value. Who cares if you can't buy a coffee with it. You can't buy a coffee with gold either but you can change both gold and Bitcoin for fiat.
Roger Won:))
Jag Gill
while you don't care about what is the real Bitcoin, some of us do as we understand what Bitcoin is about and we know what makes it great to begin with and the power it has because of it, and bankers know it also, which is why they got Blockstream to hijack it, which is why they are paying probably millions for their propaganda campaign, hiring sock puppets on Reddit and TH-cam, twitter etc... to make it look like "users" want Lighting, to make it look like "users" don't like scaling on-chain... but we are not that stupid, we see what is going on, so take your ignorant comment and stick to your "investment" scam.
my admiration to Charlie lee for this patience , very rude how Roger behaved, not cool on his part , with continuos interruptions and not letting Charlie lee explain his points !
Cripto Online Charlie got destroyed
You are judging behaviors, not the points of the discussion.
lol you must be the same kind like Roger Ver - a little dog barking for attention :)
More or less, but i would love to debate with Roger about value and money theories, because money in the end is "just" a political contract between users, but nobody still understand this, or very few people, neither the writers of his preferite books i guess, which i have no intention to read, even if he gift me...
I'm a quantum politician. ;-)
you literally been copy pasting this exact comment in every charlie lee vs roger ver video so i'm pretty sure your just a troll
Way too aggressive, Roger. It seems that you don't want to learn anything from a debate with another person. You just want to deliver your narrative.
Martin Sakura I think that you are just biased from questionable Ver’s personality, like 99% of people, and you are not judging the debate and the point made there at all. I really like Lee, however here Ver made a lot of agreeable points!
boo hoo; this isn't primary school, we are talking about bringing peer-to-peer payments to the whole world
Well put Martin! Thanks.
he is not aggressive he just likes to argue
He is pretty aggressive but that's only because he thinks Bcash is an upgrade which is debatable but it's not that Roger doesn't want to learn anything, it's about him showing and teaching us. He has a lot of valid points and Bitcoin cash in theory may be better than bitcoin core but it all comes down to hash power. splitting the network the way bitcoin cash did gives the network a greater chance of someone owning 51% of the hash power, whether it's bitcoin core or bitcoin cash. So yeah, fork BTC and make a better version of it that fits bitcoins characteristics a lot better but you risk the most important thing that makes bitcoin bitcoin. Decentralization.
Let the man speak roger. So annoying.
hows your bcash bags doin these days? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE bcash is bitcoin REEEEEEEEEE!
Juris FOX If Roger would be open for a great talk, sure Charlie has a lot to say. If would at least have been a talk instead of a onesided discussion.
Bitcoin Cash is peer to peer cash for the world. BTC is now something else.
You catch a lot more bees with honey......
Rogers way of debating is just awful. Constantly asking leading questions and interrupting all through the debate.
That is how you get your lying opponent to get caught in his web of lies.
Lmaoo this guy is litteraly married to BCASH ^^
Hey there fuckead! You still didn't edit your name?
Your comment made me laugh, yo must have some new definition of literal and marriage to come up with that idiotic comment, just how Charlie Lee made up his own definition of what P2P transaction is so that it suits his propaganda against Bitcoin and pro Lightning. Get a brain you moron :-)
Poor Charlie can't lie or subtly change inconvenient topics without being interrupted, hated it!
How cute, your married to a coin, I have every reason to believe you have an emotional connection to BCASH
the roger guy is really obnoxious
I consider lame comments like yours to be really obnoxious
If you are a fraud you cannot prove that you are not a fraud, you can only trick people into thinking that you are not a fraud.
I am not sure who are you referring to in your comment, if you are referring to Roger as the conman and BCH as "his coin", you are wrong on both accounts because BCH is not Roger's coin in any shape or form, nor is it a scam, and actually performs perfectly well to what it was designed for, while BTC does not, and LTC will not also because of same inherent issue (Core controlling the code and not allowing scaling for the masses). If you are referring to OP, then that would make sense, as OP is just writing crap, because he is not happy that his shitcoin is not making him money and he is blaming Roger and BCH for that. Pathetic people.
@Jackson Dallas XD
actually Charlie is a clown
@@danielchristopher7273 He is one of the most respected in the crypto community.....
roger lost
Roger is probably one of the greatest ambassadors for Bitcoin! - Which is now Bitcoin Cash!
‘Bitcoin is a Fork, Bitcoin Cash Is the Original Blockchain,’ NIST Report, Page 40
csrc.nist.gov/CSRC/media/Publications/nistir/8202/draft/documents/nistir8202-draft.pdf
Xaver Hoppstet Rofl do you really believe that shit ? :D
Do you know what 'NIST' stands for?
is? no. was? yes.
Charlie Lee does not like Roger Ver (he has publicly said this), and does not want to sink down to Roger's level. There is not possible to have a discussion with Roger, and Charlie was payed to sit there for the hour. so he did.
if you see other discussions with Roger VS XXX, they tend to walk away from his hostility.
Jesus christ Roger, let the man speak!
51:30 Ver doesn't understand that it wasn't censored by the network. The node censored itself by refusing inbound connections.
He tried to use a meme to make a serious point against LN, without even understanding it... It was embarrassing to watch, as much as I respect him.
@Stein Håvard Ludvigsen Because node operators would all need to go out of their way to block him. If you run a full node it's like blocking a certain IP, you simply don't go out of your way to do that.
@@LucyPero Ver should take his own advise in regards to Charlie not knowing about economics. Ver doesn't technically understand BTC or LN so he should keep his mouth shut.
You can't censor yourself.
That is an impossibility.
@@-ED- Censor may not be the correct word but you know what I mean. He cut himself off from the network. It's like opening a shop but never opening the doors to let anyone in.
This isn't a debate it's just Ver doing what he always does. Question people over and over hoping they trip up.
You are judging behaviors, not the points of the discussion.
what roger always does is make really solid points & this debate didn't disappoint 👌🙌
TheLionManOnline: So true! :)
@Emanuele Nusca yea, actually question saying is what people with no real arguments engage in
This interview just lends further evidence to the fact that Roger Ver is a deeply insecure and defensive beta in the crypto space.
No respect for Roger's debate style. Interruptions, demeaning attitude.. How can I even consider the points Roger makes when he acts this way?
Because he is objectively correct. There is no room for emotions in a debate. Purge them.
Synaptic I cannot stand this kind of size* contest
People complaining about Roger’s debating style. He was like this out of necessity.
Once Roger can't answer a question he creates a distraction...sort of like CNN news anchors.
I sold out all of BCash and will never buy again
Natural World maybe you’ll regret, however, I think nobody cares what you did with your coins.
Good, less idiots holding good money
You did the right thing.
-ED- Bitcoin BCH Channel Less idiots?!?!?!?!, shitmain holds 1 million BCH, its THE idiot coin :D :D
Natural World - HAHAHA! Fool!!!
BCH is BCash to me, like most people I feel RV is just hijacking Bitcoin for his own ends. That's why people call in BCash. I feel RV is a narcissist.
BTrash you mean
this is the reason why we have bitcoin, not bcash ;)
Reason you have Bitcoin is because Satoshi Nakamoto thought it out, Roger promoted it for many years, and reason you still have just a Bitcoin name, is Core, Blockstream and you useful idiots that parrot around their propaganda. Bitcoin is BCH now... and you don't have any because you are too stupid :-)
you lead to confusion.
twitter.com/BitcoinCore_/status/1046398368312971265
bitcoin is bitcoin
bcash is bcash
bitcoin core is bitcoin core
:)
-ED- Bitcoin BCH Channel
everywhere you read your name and you can not argue.
read the whitepaper. BTC is the chain with the most hash power and the largest chain. And? Bcash is Bitcoin? No! Do not tell me you're a paid troll of Roger.
Charlie Lee has shredded Roger Ver into pieces. What a patient monk.
No argument, and your claim is garbage, Charlie Lee dug his own grave when he said that LN is more P2P then Bitcoin system.
-ED- Bitcoin BCH Channel See guys, I found a paid shill.
Solid money Your grammar can give people the highest level of cancer. Kindly refrain from embarrasing yourself.
Section 1 of the whitepaper strongly indicates that Bitcoin should have low on chain fees.
Roger Ver is the bad guy from the movies... We all know what happens in the end
The movie ends and you go back to real life?
@@-ED- - ED Why will you reply to this but not when I ask you about why you keep liking your own comments and videos multiple times?
Is someone deluding themself?
Where did you ask me such a thing? And what do you know what I like and what I don't like? Are you siting behind me looking at what I am doing?
@@-ED- - That's a confession by the way. You are not intelligent enough to realise it is, but it is.
The question was on your most recent video, please have a look.
Mate, you are marked as the Core troll on my channel and blocked, so sorry to disappoint you but your question never reached me.
I block ignorant souls and trolls like you for a reason, not interested in your blabber and propaganda.
I like facts and reason, so when you have some, you will see what I see, you will see what tool you are.
Maybe you are living in that movie of yours, which would explain lack of reality.
Charlie is calm and Roger is too aggressive. My money is on Calm. We are entering a new frontier. It's very exciting, as most of you watching can agree.Cash is on its way out, so choose your poison.
There are calm people in BCH community, join us!
So far, the communities that I like right now, are : BTC, ETC, LTC and XRP. Looking at a few others, but BTC has not caught my attention yet. Sorry.
han why don't you try to invest in a buddhist temple...Such a lame argument.
It's not just me who thinks Roger is a word bully. Read the other comments bot.
Calm and clever, vs aggressive and dumb, roger ver got fucking destroyed on the sha256 question, he thinks 5 minutes into the future, lee thinks manny years into the future, stupid roger ver didnt even think what would happend WHEN sha256 is broken, and it will be at some point, just like sha1 is broken.
god dammit, will you let him finish a point?!
Kevin Kelbie no points, so no need to finish. Many interruptions are to keep him on track!
However, you are judging behaviors, not the points of the discussion.
Your bias is getting in the way of you seeing a bad interviewer.
Emanuele Nusca hahaha defending this totaly childish behavior, this shows how little brain shitcoin trash supporters have. ;)
That's so true @Kevin the sad thing is that Emanuele can't see it
Roger: I consider myself an economist.
Charlie: Okay.
LOL
lmfaooo
@@adriancosta4664 It's not okay. You don't get to call yourself educated in a certain field without a degree.
@@adriancosta4664 Nigga? Titles come with qualifications. You could say you've self-studied the Austrian school of economics and therefore have an educated opinion. I would respect that. but to say "I consider myself an economist" just because you've read a couple of books is just not right. You did not earn the title. (Being committed to a curriculum and examined for competency)
Charlie = Composed/intelligent
Roger = Not
Benna 54321 not an argument
@@GlennYarwood - Who said it was an argument?
It's an opinion that many people would share.
And your opinion is useless, beside it being incorrect.
Charlie Lee is and looks nervous as kid on a toilet.
@@-ED- - Do you often watch kids on toilets?
You never heard of that saying? I have.
Also I have a 2yr old, when you have one you will see it in person also.
For the newbs watching, BTC is Bitcoin by consensus. The majority has spoken. To fork bitcoin in favor of one's one business interests is fine, but to name the resulting altcoin "Bitcoin" is total deception. Don't waste your money on Bcash. It only serves the interests of Roger and his cronies.
Bitcoin is BCH
Consensus was fabricated by censorship, SegWit is hack of Bitcoin and was forced into BTC by the same people who fabricated consensus
Consensus is for the miners and miners also, not the users, that alleged consensus was not only fabricated but is also wrong
Core admited that user consensus is bollocks when that massive bug was found in their Bitcoin Core software, which is hacked with SegWit, and was forced into every mining node while some 80% of the nodes in BTC are still affected by this bug and never upgraded. Core don't care as non-mining nodes do nothing for the network, which is another thing Bitcoin Cash supporters kept saying for years, and Core ignored... now truth is out in the open and Core have no choice but to admit that they lied, same as they lied about everything else.
BTC is shitcoin altcoin hacked with SegWit and Lightning is a centralised digital fiat banking system created for bankers.... by Blockstream and Bitcoin Core.
BCH is the only true Bitcoin
No one cares if you think your alticoin called bitcoin cash is "the real bitcoin" or if Ethereum Classic is the real Ethereum. BTC and ETH are the real kings, the majority has spoken. Sit down bitcoin crash fan BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH
-ED- Bitcoin BCH Channel give up. Dogecoin has more transactions like your shitcoin: D
the community holds together, you are alone.
paid troll
I love BCH just as much as the next guy, but from an unbiased view point, I would like to try to explain what this video is.
Ver obviously paid Charlie Lee for this 1.5 hour long talk. I guess you can call it a debate, but Ver is really using Charlie Lee to explain the faults in what BTC proponents think. For example, how censored r/Bitcoin is, how many people enjoy high mining fees, and BTC's shift away from an eCash network over to a store of value utility.
For example, Ver keeps bringing up the idea that BCH is the real Bitcoin, and he does this by outlining a list of requirements needed for Bitcoin to be Bitcoin. He then asks Charlie questions about whether or not this list is valid, all the while correcting him on what he says right after.
I don't know if I would call this a debate, since Ver has all the power here due to the fact that he is paying Charlie. Charlie can walk out, but obviously wouldn't get paid. So Ver can be as rude, inpatient, and argumentative as he wants to be.
I think Ver is kind of wasting his time trying to claim to be Bitcoin, because that does not matter. What matters is whether or not BCH is a good P2P eCash system. If BCH does what it sets out to do, then being the "real" Bitcoin does not matter. I suppose being considered the real Bitcoin does well for brand recognition, but given the proper amount of time BCH will develop a brand recognition of its own.
If BTC wants store of value utility, that's great! This gives BCH the opportunity to fulfill the utility of P2P eCash. We just need to wait and see how this scalability race turns out.
8:30 This sums up the fundamental problem with people these days. They think words don't have meaning essentially because they do not want to admit the fact that they're wrong.
First time seeing Roger speak. Couldn’t finish watching it. What an utterly dismissive and disrespectful individual.
How ? That’s the whole point of debate . To speak up
It's hard to watch someone try to debate like a fourth grader. If I talk over you I win the argument. I don't disagree with everything Ver says, but he doesn't seem to know how to talk things out in a actual two way conversation.
Moral of the story bcash is an altcoin that’s it go do your business
You have no morals as all you write is garbage propaganda and name calling, not a single line of truth.
@@-ED- Btrash IS an altcoin. Having Roger Ver the most hated man in crypto involved is it's death knell.
There is no such thing as Btrash. There is such a thing as you being a dumbass, and there is such a thing as Bitcoin Cash, which is only true implementation of Bitcoin.
ED Believes that there were no planes in the 9/11 attack, dont waste your time man that guy is totaly braindead.
Charlie was trying so hard not slap him lol
Ver shows why B-Cash ain't decentralized
Yup he even says what defines bitcoin is what he thinks, not the community :D
Roger clearly said that Bitcoin white paper is what describes it
You two are clearly also part of the brainwashed brainless Core cult society?
@@-ED- only people brainwashed are the people that think a fork can ever be the original ,
A fork can never be the original the fork is and always will be nothing other than B-CASH
Ps... The white paper does not have big unsafe blocks
To understand the problem with BCH all you need to do is watch this video. Ver as the face and spokesman of BCH will continue to stifle any chance of success.
Bitcoin Cash doesn't have a "face" all of us from Bitcoin Cash community are behind it.
You don't understand anything about Bitcoin either, if you did, you would know its not a business, its not a company, its a decentralised, open source software which enables people to get rid of the centralised shit that central banks are, especially private central bank from US and UK, and allows people to transact cheaper, safer, without intermediaries which are parasites on humanity and are among the ones creating all the wars and corruption. So get a clue, stop being such a useful idiot and smarten the fuck up. You should also know that you represent the face of the ugly Core cult club, so get a life moron.
Roger was right so right thank you Roger
If everybody started calling Blue-green Does that mean Blue is now green? Or just a bunch of stupid freakin people. LOL
Sadly many will call it green as if that was now the new universal truth. Some ppl are just stupid by default. They have someone else even more stupid to decide for them to what the truth is. Thats why the world is in such a poor state. Just look at this comments. People make decisions based on emotions. Charlie is calm I believe him . . . they can not be further from truth!
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
"Is that what you're saying?"
That's so he does not misrepresent the other person's views and to clarify what he said. How is that a bad thing?
I'm am the average Joe that makes less than $40,000 a year, Father of 4 boys and a lovely wife. When I got into Bitcoin early last year I invested in altcoins. I stayed away from Bitcoin. I'm giving The world my unbiased opinion because I don't own any Bitcoin. Having experienced purchasing and sending Bitcoin from exchange to exchange for the sole reason of purchasing altcoins and having purchased some low priced things with Bitcoin ( like my bitpay visa) I can tell you that using Bitcoin is extremely frustrating. Not only is it extremely slow and extremely expensive, but it made me anxious and nervous when I had to complete transactions using Bitcoin. One day I finally decided to try out Bitcoin Cash and it is the opposite experience of Bitcoin. Fast and cheap. Sorry but Bitcoin Cash in my opinion is the real Bitcoin. I don't care about what other people say, I have my own personal experiences that tell me Bitcoin sucks and Bitcoin Cash is the way Bitcoin was meant to be.
If you’re making one transaction per week, use Bitcoin. For everything else, use Bitcoin Cash.
Dude gets it
can Ver stop reading all his 'thoughts' from cellphone ?
Why?
I think he can, but is not going to.
Can you get a clue and see that you are stupid?
-ED- Bitcoin BCH Channel Hahahahaha what a nice face you put on bcash, good job man, i love it, just stay a rude asshole like that, then bch will for sure never get big :D
The moment Roger starts feeling like he's losing in a particular part of an argument he changes the topic to 'intrinsic value' over and over. How can it be so obvious to everyone but him?? Not to mention the fact that his argument on intrinsic value is pure semantics on the word intrinsic.
Roger Ver is a very agressive dude,, dont like him...
Robert Bee in his mind he’s right and he has to attack every other opinion that challenges his one regardless of how ignorant or stupid he sounds just repeating himself 🤦🏻♂️ never liked him
Your argument is "laughable" - "pick up a dictionary" - "you just dig yourself in a deeper hole" - he keep being so condescending towards Charlie Lee (that is just within 5 mins in the video). He is so rude and arrogant! He is talking like he is so clever, smart and the best guy in the world.... but he is only obnoxius when he try to show that side...
Roger is just jealous because hes not the real Sotoshi.
HAHAHA, more like Charlie Lee is jealous as he is copy cat "creator' of a shitcoin, used as testing shitcoin for a shitcoin whose code he knows nothing about as its code fully depends on coders of this other shitcoin who hijacked Bitcoin name and turned it into a SegWit shitcoin. I know you didn't get any of this, too complex for your shitcoin loving brain.
Rodger gives himself way too much credit. You fall for it? Check out how humble Charlie is. He may be the real Satoshi. I mean look how much he cares about bitcoin
Roger have fake satoshi :D
I now see why people hate Roger Ver. For one, he redefines words to try to win small arguments. For example he claims everything has an intrinsic value of zero. Economics and finance disagree with that statement, and then he calls himself an economist. He is a demigod because of his following but his logic is flawed. Get over the white paper. I don't want the Bitcoin of 2008, I want the Bitcoin of 2040. The technology needs to be free to evolve.
He said nothing has intrinsic value (which he is right btw). Plus he was correct on the point about the "prices of production" theory. Something isn't necessarily valuable just because you have spent time on making/creating it.
Charlie Lee did what Jimmy Song could not- Destroyed Roger Ver. He should start yelling louder that Bcash is the real Bitcoin.
its soo hard to argue roger ver.. if he has an idea you HAVE to say hes right otherwise he will cut you and try to make you say thing until you do... thats not a way to debate.. he hardly let charlie finish an argument... and when he start something tho dont try to stop him... it not that i dont like bitcoin cash, but roger ver make it hard to love his view, he want it soo bad to push it down your throat.. not the way i like it...
Acting like a kid and cutting someone who trying to make a point... if very childish. shoving something down the throat of someone and never letting them finishing a sentence or idea (it a way to make them forget their point)is not a way to debate... When my daughter cut me.. i tell her: put your hand on my arm, ive notice you wanna say something, lemme finish what im saying and ill listen after... Thats a skill roger ver should learn...
Im not saying BCH or BTC is better or worst.. im just saying roger ver is bad representive for BCH and he his very unprofessional. We have freedom of speech soo he can represent whatever he want but i can tell you something, i will not love BCH more because roger ver shove thing down my throat, its quite the opposite..
Its not a competition, we need crypto in the world, we need both BTC and BCH... thats what roger ver doesnt seem to ignore, everything isnt always black or white... imagine if Roger Ver used his energy to promote BCH and crypto instead of spending all his energy to bash on BTC, maybe people would like BCH more... We need to build together and not agaisnt... Roger ver make me think of an old Ex-girlfriend that wanna show you why shes better off without you!!!
So good points @Razueck19!!! Totally agree with you! Sadly Vers supporters don't see it... Blinded by their own "God"
Synbitz Seven you know in life and everything it’s not about wining all the time!! The way you win is to me as important as the win itself!! If you win fair and square fine!! But Lee couldn’t never finish an idea!!
I don’t think this was a debate it was more roger ver intimidating mr lee... yeah he won by bullying...
How many time did you hear mr. Lee ask roger : “lemme finish”!! That not debating...
Roger ver looked like a spoiled kid!! I had to force myself to watch it all!! Mr lee is a patient man we have to agree on that!
Synbitz Seven true he couldn’t refute any but could he... when someone cut you soo many time you lose your idea or anyway to follow up because roger keep throwing him all around... Im pretty sure that the culture Charlie come from isn’t used to be intimidated which as prolly thrown him off his game, Asian are way more respectful!!!
And roger didn’t refute litecoin was a better bitcoin in 2017!! The only argument that roger has is that bch is closer to the white paper!! I mean if you take anything in computer sciences... you know that you never stay with v1.0... app evolve et upgrade...
Another example of that is Conor mcgregor! He intimidated soo many opponent.. but Khabib didn’t care about that!!
I’m just saying one day roger ver will get smack in the head and I won’t be sad..
See even you can argue better then him!!
Ver is trying to lecture not debate!! Lol
You are correct. The only way Roger Ver's position can prevail in the debate is by educating Charlie Lee and a lot of the audience.
and he did a damn good job at it
It feels like Miyagi san trying to speak intelligently with someone from the Cobra Kai
I'm glad these 2 got together and had a discussion, even if it was a little tense.
time to buy litecoin
Just cuz Roger is saying Bitcoin cash is Bitcoin doesn't mean everyone is thinking the same way, hell no.
The community has spoken and Bitcoin is Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash is an altcoin and even Jihan said it.
Bitcoin
Fees on Bitcoin chain halves every four years, that's the truth !!!
The thing is that Roger Ver is considering Dollars !!!
Not Bitcoin !!!
Don't you mean B-Trash??
I must say I prefer Charlie's outlook. He has a bachelor and masters in CS. Roger is out of his depth in regards of talking about the technical aspects of bitcoin. Bitcoin is not bitcoin Cash
bcash is a scam
B-Trash
@@xaverj8932 you are mistaking me for roger ver
Charlie is a hypocrite. Roger destroyed this dude
Roger is trying to make his self more important than the agenda of crypto. He is no different than those greedy hedge fund managers. Charlie, Thanks for all you do
Please GOD make this joke thats called Bitcoin CASH disappear one time earlier... how tf are we expecting mass adoption and no coiners to take us serious when shit like this is still debatable.. BITCOIN=BITCOIN.. THE BTC VERSION.
Roger literally thinks Satoshi is god and the whitepaper is the word of god aka the bible.
Your response is akin to insulting Christians for believing in God and the Bible out of principle and dedication. it's obvious he cares about the original mission of Bitcoin, and like myself, is quite disappointed in the current state of BTC's utility. BCH actually has a real use.
Charlie seems pretty confident and Roger nervous, rude and aggressive... 🤔
Charlie lee makes me feel so confident in litecoin.. I'm all in.. clearly the best coin
Low iq boy
OMG I came here for the debate and instead Roger is interupting every minute, its really hard to listen to this. This is not real debate. (I am not anti BTC Cash)
Major props to Charlie for debating. Both made good points. I just wish Roger would interrupt a little less and next time remove the guy laughing in the background. Left a bad taste in my mouth.
I couldn't watch more than 8 mins of this - Roger Ver is insufferable with his interruptions, non stop talking and aggressive posturing. All gets lost in translation because he's a lousy communicator.
Same here Vishy. I got ten minutes in before I had to quit. Ver never shuts up he just rants and rants and rants. He must think being glib and vociferous makes you knowledgeable. It doesn't it just irritates people
I like roger, but he was a bit too aggressive in this one. lee had some good points he should have been allowed to elaborate on a bit more instead of being stopped all the time.
Agree. Except for the like Roger part ;-)
Too emotional
why even try man!?! What do you even like about him? Did you fall for his lies?
It is interesting how off putting Roger's tone is. It is the essence of an ego driven communication: Dogmatic - always referring back to bitcoin.org content from many years back, even when things have evolved. Arguing from some kind of ab-initio point that he defined. Combative and defensive when there is no need to. Seeking some kind of "victory" or "I-told-you-so" attitude that NOBODY else cares about.
Charlie is an excellent example of how to interact with such a person. Be calm polite and be clear and principled.
LOL 12:15 he already knew he was going to interrupt him
A debate that ended with laughter and a handshake. That's how it should be.
Increase block size means whoever's can produce the biggest blocks controls the system. Correct?
Roger Ver's only strength is that he's extremely articulate. I'd like to give credit to the guy. That said, Charlie Lee, imo, was able to clarify and give a proper rebuttal to each of ver's questions from a technical perspective. God, I wish Charlie had a degree in marketing.
Bitcoin cash is Rodgers coin ... no Rodger no Bitcoin cash. Bitcoin is independent coin.
Great debate! Finally one without any screaming or drama. Sadly I don't think bitcoin saw the debate or cares :-)
I honestly can't believe they posted this video. Roger absolutely humiliated himself..
On behalf of the BCH community, I apologize for -Ed-.
Also, I agree that Roger was unnecessarily aggressive on this interview.
Who made you spokesperson for the BCH community??
A community of people who don't know
He is not the only one, we see again and again how narrow minded bch supporters are.
Just bail out of B-trash before you lose all your money.
Charlie Lee is a scammer. He dumped his coins ATH and ran and he is justifying high fees. The guy is a scammer
The only argument needed is the whitepaper, everything else is irrelevant.
Charlie Lee lost this debate in 5 minutes.
Watched the whole thing and whilst Roger isn’t perfect on every point, Charlie embarrasses himself several times.
BCH is the real Bitcoin.
Roger Ver needs to have more composure. His stance is that he must win. That stance is registered
as a lack of security. Insecurity makes a speaker difficult to agree with. This stance Roger need to work
on. If he is the spoke person for bitcoin cash he needs to get someone who know how to do PR properly.
Yeah and if roger read this ... look at people's comment. It's synonymous, same issue of people not
registering to your style of representing what you believe in.
Roger, why bother having these debates if you are just gonna talk over your guests? I want to hear both of you but god damn you need to not keep cutting the other person off. Other than that, was good hearing you both discuss this and come to some common ground on some topics.
So if I fork bitcoin cash and call it bitcoin cash would you be ok with that?
I love watching these debates
Yeah Roger Ver got destroyed.... by himself :)
i found the book advice "Economics in One Lesson" valuable, thanks
Ver's definition(list) of what makes bitcoin bitcoin sound exactly like litecoin. Is litcoin the real bitcoin?
The market decides which one is the real
Charlie says "Things get upgraded over time" on Bitcoin, but yet they don't upgrade the MB size lol
Because that is not an upgrade
Alright here is the core of the debate: Both Charlie and Roger agree low transaction fees are good, but they differ on how to achieve that. Roger wants to lower fees by increasing the block size, but Charlie believes larger blocks eventually cause centralization and censorship. Charlie wants to lower fees via off-chain 2nd layer (eg lightning), but Roger believes 2nd layer causes centralization and censorship. So both want A (censorship resistance) and B (low fees), but each believes the other’s method for getting to B compromises A. What they should do is acknowledge that A is their common goal, and then get into quantitative calculations to evaluate which method for B is better. This will not be settled with qualitative hand wavy arguments IMO, and constantly rehashing it wastes everybody’s time.
Why keeps on interrupting.....!!!!!
Charlie Lee won. He keep calm and has a better understanding of the underlying technology. Roger Ver keeps saying his own propaganda again and again - he keep interrupt Charlie Lee when he is talking and Roger is like running on 150% (like ADHD) about bitcoin cash is so and so and so... There has been several updates to bitcoin since it was invented - is those wrong as well because it is not like the original invented version?
Let the people decide - if they want Bitcoin Cash they will choose it - if they want the real Bitcoin BTC they will choose that - but you can not pressure people into a corner telling them use bitcoin cash....
This starts to feel like propaganda when Roger Ver keep saying the exact same sentence so fast (because he chant it at home in the mirror) so he can press people up in a corner to lose grip of the conversation.
Charlie Lee won, hands down.
If roger ver was no longer an obnoxious bully, then does roger ver cease to exist?
Miners being paid by inflation + tx fee market = more incentive for miners to mine on BTC = more hashrate = more immutability and censorship resistance, etc.
Good God I can't watch this. Roger Ver is so rude interrupting Charlie Lee all the time. I honestly want to hear what they both have to say but Ver makes it very hard to listen.
Not sure this is a debate as much as it is Roger attempting to impale Charlie with a figurative spear, covered in his narrative.
I wanted to take value from this video and understand more about the BCash community, but it wasn't very insightful and was hard to listen to due to Roger coming off as a jerk about everything.
Tone of voice, hurling insults, his own lack of knowledge around economics and, ultimately, Roger talking down to Charlie made this a very counter-productive listen.
Charlie won this debate aside from the economic stand point
Bitcoin is an economic system that uses cryptography.
What do you mean fool? Charlie didn’t know where something got value from? He lost the argument on the economic side. Call me a fool gtfo here. I hate roger ver he’s a clown but he was right. As far as anything cryptography goes or how bitcoin works we all know Charliee lee is much more knowledgeable than roger.
What exactly did Charlie Lee win? Tool of the month? The guy literally created his own definition of what P2P transaction means and turned logic upside down.
Maybe this is his thing, he did exact same thing when he dumped his Litecoin, then gave his excuse to idiots HODLing that shit more, saying how he did it because he doesn't want conflict of interest.... you have to mental to buy that excuse... and yet... some people did.
If someone came to you and told you do buy and HODL some shitcoin and they said they dumped theirs, would you do it? Seriously... would you? Come on man, if you say yes, you are lying through your teeth, we all know this is bunch of nonsense... and yet... some people have no sense.
it doesnt matter who wins in this 1vs1. The whole world knows what bitcoin is, bitcoin is the 6,6k USD Coin worth ATM, BCH now at 513. When BCH 60K is, and BTC 600, then for me BCH is bitcoin :))
So just because is less aggressive it does mean that he make reasons for his points?? Geeeeezzzzz
roger got him though on many points and was more willing to concede to charlie's points. charlie was more embarrassed and unwilling to admit his mistakes.
Agreed charly cares about winning and not losing face.. Roger cares about truth..
I watched this video, because I honesty wanted to educate myself about BCH. I think that Roger's style of debating is a really poor advertisement for his cause. His argument about Satoshi's original vision reminds me of christian cults trying to tell you what the first century christianity was intended to be, instead of admitting that societies chance. And I used to be one of those people.
In the court of public opinion BTC is bitcoin. Roger can be right all day about all his points but at the end of the day he can't sway public opinion. Being correct is intrinsically worthless.
i lasted 3:41. Was done with his rudeness. Will never buy bcash. ever
Roger Ver's points were pretty much spot on. Charlie made a good point with the SHA256 breaking which Roger corrected his position. Even though the interruptions were unpleasant, they are important to having discussions/debates to clarify points and usages of words to move forward. But all in all some very good points coming from Roger.
When is Roger going to wear the t-shirt?
Through the long discussion, satoshi's whitepaper isn't only the bible.
Roger go hard and follow the whitepaper word by word.
Charlie want to maintain, development or upgrade the bitcoin.
And two expert keep fighting definition at the crypto-door.
Low fees are important for everyday use adoption. BTC transactions cost me $2.00 while BCH transactions cost $0.01 so BCH is the better bitcoin. Lightning mobile hosted wallets do not hold private keys. BCH wallets do hold your private keys. Remember, not your private keys; not your bitcoin. Based on the merits of the facts presented; Bitcoin Cash is a better Bitcoin.