Roger Ver Debates Tone Vays (FULL DEBATE) - Malta 2019
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
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• They've Cheated and St...
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Why is there so much hate for this guy? he makes fucking sense lol
Because he is blind to anything else except BTC... he wont want to listen or even care... while BTC does absolutely NOTHING new.. a VAST majority of alts try to do something different.... and yet he thinks projects like LINK, ETH, DOT, SNX, SRM and a whole majority of others, are all rubbish and have NO value... How can he be called as an "expert" host on crypto when he does not care about anything else other than BTC... he is like the Peter Schiff of Crypto where he ONLY believes in BTC lol.
@@KA0S-247 because network effect duh. Why as a merchant you frequently accept new cryptos? BTC has been tried and tested and works.
@@jptbaba BTC does NOT work as a payment rail... maybe for ONLINE retailers it could be mass adopted where you are NOT waiting over the counter for your goods. but can you imagine going into your local electrical store and then paying for something in BTC... and guess what the shop owner wont let you walk with the goods until the transaction is completed and confirmed... this is the major case right now... pushing the BTC narrative as the be all end all... is wrong as it constantly paint the entire space with a fog that does not clearly show that there are projects that address this type of transactional requirement and many other types of interactions too... on ALL his videos he is just too hardcore with BTC and he has said on NUMEROUSE occasions that everything else is worth nothing... only BTC will remain standing... you tell that to the other 1 TRILLION $ worth of assets... that keep growing... screen shot this... the alt market WILL be much bigger than the entire BTC market when the dust settles. Nothing against the guy as a person BUT he is NOT an expert in anyway for crypto or SHOULD he be allowed to represent BTC with such bias views.
@@KA0S-247 wrong, 0 conf works. 0-conf is effective impossible on BTC whereas BCH it is possible. I am a developer so I know without having to rely on Roger or anyone else.
@@jptbaba Yes I know 0 conf works... but AGAIN BTC does not do this... I was simply saying that Tone Vays is NO WAY an expert in crypto... he is a BTC maximalist and even without 0 Conf on BTC chain he still blindly thinks without any doubt or proof, that BTC is the ONLY thing worth holding and everything else is trash... that was my point ... that Tone Vays should NOT be speaking on behalf of the crypto community when he is soo bias in favour of BTC and nothing else. In his view and words everything else is worthless and a "bunch of S**tcoins", when this simply isn't the true... there are MANY other projects that are far superior to what BTC does and will ever do.
"Idk where you're getting the $3 average transaction fee from?!?" - On that exact day, the average transaction fee for BTC was $4.095. LOL.
"NO ONE USES BITCOIN CASH, THAT'S WHYY THE FEES ARE SO LOWWW" - Such a ridiculous exaggeration, and a straight up lie. LAME.
I'm 5 mins in, and all I have experienced is the same old tactics from the BTC camp.
Very disappointing because I would have loved to be convinced that BTC is the best form of Bitcoin.
That all said, BCH is still my top pick.
This aged well didn’t it
Look at bch price today and feel really stupid
The winner is Bitcoin.
SUCKRPUNCHED dude I was going to say the same thing hahahaha
Lmao sucker
Lol. Loser
Tone has no idea what he's talking about. He obviously doesn't use Bitcoin else he wouldve known the average tx fees. Imo he doesn't even seem to understand that the more addresses you sent from (which Roger obviously does, as he uses it to actually pay for stuff) the more fees you pay, cause the more bytes it'll take.
th-cam.com/video/oCOjCEth6xI/w-d-xo.html
Now buy cigarettes in jail with cash only
"On chain works just fine" ... says a Rich White Westerner who thinks $10 isn't a lot of money. That's a weeks wages in a lot of the world.
Roger made Tone Vays look like a fool! What’s the point of holding onto BTC if it wants to become a currency and it can’t act like one?
because you need people to want it, accept it anywhere
th-cam.com/video/oCOjCEth6xI/w-d-xo.html
The point is two things:
decentralisation
security
youve heard this a thousand times before but until you understand why, its not going to sink in.
Read about money.
Security > Speed
...a fool. Looks like, sounds like... yup - a fool.
I feelt so bad for Tone. If you going to debate with Ver you should be very prepared!!
Now you know why a snake toung is not the same as being right😉
How's that Bitcoin Cash working out?
Tone has zero knowledge when it comes to Bitcoin.
@@spg9392 Do you have any actual arguement? Keep getting jealous of BCH development in terms of merchant adoption and tech.
@Philip-Alexander Jach Rothbard changed the way I used to think.
bitinfocharts.com/comparison/mediantransactionvalue-btc-bch-doge.html
Still can't believe Tone was advocating for LN while not knowing about the requirement to be online. That is some next level ignorance and dishonesty.
@@sequorroxx www.theblockcrypto.com/tiny/one-bitcoin-cash-address-is-responsible-for-nearly-50-percent-of-the-networks-transactions-in-the-past-month/
OMG ROGER YOU KILLED IT ! fucking love you bro. this dude needed somebody to kick his butt
Tone all of a sudden uses Bitcoin everyday. All these years he has been saying bitcoin is a store of value, he doesnt use Bitcoin as its not meant to be used.
Ek is nie een van die Roger Ver fan boys nie maar jissus he destroyed Tone.Tone sal miskien fit in die ANC hehehe
LMAO, He's entire income is built on BTC, why do you b-trash people feel the need to make up lies? Go to he's website, everything is priced in BTC, meaning that's all he earns and all he spends for the majority lol
U never change your opinion?
howzit ZA-ers asb friend my op facebook vir maybe a whatsapp group? selle naam op fb as hier.
Tone Vays say we going down to 1k, but Mr. Novogratz say we have baaaaaaaa-ttooooooooo-med out
btc please go to moon :)
Looks like it's going down!
1000x. Great channel
He probably meant 10K :D
BITCOINCASH DID NOT AGE WEOL
This is even more true today. BTC is useless for day-to-day payments. Roger, thank you for making BCH useful.
I'm a BTC guy, but I admire Roger. He was incredibly instrumental in getting people acquainted with the technology. He'd go out and talk to folk about it and even give small amounts of BTC away to show people how it works. Regardless of the BCH vs. BTC debate, I'll always give him props for that!
Jonathan Thomas Roger is a bully plain and simple and Tone closed minded re btc to a degree. Is youwant an equal playing field with Ver you need someone like Richard Heart I reckon!
Aand here's the problem folks. Bitcoin BTC maximalists don't use their BTC, they just HODL it like a stock, so fees don't matter.
Roger Ver won.
There is no discussion.
Na schau mal einer an! ;) Schön dich hier zu sehen!
@@ray6976 That's just out and out false
Ummm Tone won the $10,000.00 what are you referring to? I don't understand what Ver was trying to prove…..You must be a BCH investor. I have BCH but Ver a twirp at best, honestly.
@@ray6976 If the same amount of users were on each chain BCH would be faster and cheaper, period.. So your statement was false..
@@junipersnow1
I don't care about schoolyard arguments over meaningless Bullsh*t, I care about the world having deflationary money that isn't being manipulated by Central Banks..
This is about decentralization and freeing people of oppression all around the world and in order to do that we need low fees and high speed transactions..
I'm not in crypto only for personal gain, I'm in crypto because I believe in a future absent of Govt oppression..
I own both BCH and BTC, I'm not stupid.. This idea of Hodling digital gold is stupid, greedy and selfish, and it does nothing for the poor and oppressed worldwide..
Wow Roger KO'd Tone, hands down.
Hahah, Tone got triggered and flustered real quick. Way to go, Roger :) you crushed it!
You’re praising a con man.
What's going to happen to BTC when LN fails? Will they finally increase the block size?
No because blockstream has hijacked the project completely.
Tone Vays is a joke why waste your time.
www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/8h4dit/roger_ver_is_a_wellknown_scammer/
@@spg9392 stop being a stupid troll
Tone Vays is blatantly lying.
www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/8h4dit/roger_ver_is_a_wellknown_scammer/
@@spg9392 You are slow
@@spg9392 You clearly haven't used BCH before. It's basically instanteous, just like BTC was before it got hijacked by Blockstream.
@@spg9392 They absolutely cannot reverse your transations, regardless of whether you use BTC or BCH. That's the whole point of the technology -- censorship resistant and immutable.
Transactions on BCH are nearly instant and always confirm in the next block. Safer than credit cards when it comes to small (
@@misterjohnpaul BCH already re-orged, centralized mining, software development centralized, BCH is garbage nobody uses it except to scam newbies.
BCH for the win! 📈🤑👏🏽
Make Bitcoin Paypal Again! ~BCH
Fast, cheap, reversible, censored money controlled by a couple of miners, Roger and Jihan!
BCH is Paypal 2.0, zero security, centralized GARBAGE! Less users than Dogecoin and Litecoin!
BCH is slow as fuck
howmanyconfs.com/
@@spg9392 and BTC is fast? are you kidding?
@@skkjoohun bitinfocharts.com/comparison/hashrate-btc-bch.html
bch no security model
@@skkjoohun bch no economic activity, small amount of ppl sending pennies to each other (probably Roger to himself)
Tone Vays might be a biological troll.
Atleast he’s human unlike Roger Ver
Roger Ver is a giant SCROTUM
Nice job Roger. Perfect gentleman as always.
bcash doesn't suddenly become good .. because ver got the upper hand in this one debate and didn't explode or give the middle finger this time.. bitcoin is still vastly superior.
...in what way?
Fees? Transaction times? Peer to peer electronic lagg system
@@UltraRik Apparently "store of value". But not sure what the value is?
Listening to these two is so tiresome. Every debate these two have had, little value has been given to the listener. With that said, I am. Huge BTC fan but I also see the benefits if Bitcoin Cash (BTCABC) and It's much faster and cheaper than BTC. You're best bet is to have them both.
@@GoldfieldsGoose you don't need any of them; you could use bananas to trade with; but all of them can be used effectively, except BTC fees are very high
Only 1 Adress makes 50% of all BCH transactions... ROGER is this your adress??
he said "80% to 60% ....whose wallet is this Roger?!?!"
Roger did not answer....maybe it wasCraig Whrite's one? :-)
@@gianmariaroccoli lol it would be funny if c.wright getting rid of bcash to transfer it for bsv
Already debunked as FUD. But of course not for the low-attention 2017 crytpo noobs, who think rehashing bullshit FUD by other ignorant people makes them fit in more.
Besides cheating on the mempool queueing, Tone asked "don't i have a day TODAY....?" He apparently knew the offer was only valid for that day. All the trolls in the media are still claiming that the offer was for 24hr. That is lame! Just admit that Tone lost and there is nothing shameful about that. Twisting the facts is shameful! I do hold BTC as well, and this incident makes me loss confident in BTC being a decentralised crypto.
Roger said the transaction would be "stuck in the mempool for days, or potential weeks". Pedantically trying to define the meaning of a day does not change the fact that Roger grossly lost on the point he solely based his argument on. Not wanting to pay out 10k to a charity only makes him look like more of a fool.
You're an oddity
@@hippokratus he literally said "if it gets included in a block today". Anyone can watch the video
@@hippokratus What he said is CORRECT. TRY to send a 1sat/byte txn yesterday, today or tommorow. Without miner collusion , it WILL be stuck in the mempool for days or weeks.
No pedantic redefinitions.
One day is 24 hours, one week is 7 days.
Go ahead.
Try it.
And link the transaction here so we can all see what happens.
Max it will get stuck in the mempool 3 days after that time the transaction will disappear like it never took place.
I'm glad people are finally realizing how much of a scammer ver is.
Clearly, Ver's blocks are bigger than Tone's.
Roger you are the man!!!
Promoting your cash network (with relatively little transactions) for being fast doesn't make it a winner for me.
Promoting BTC exclusively makes no sense what-so-ever.. why would Tone Vays spend so much time doing just that? Because he comes from JP Morgan Chase, which if Bitcoin is used as cash, it will completely undermine their banking scam.. which is why he is pushing Lightning centralized node trading, or just holding Bitcoin without spending it ... because Tone's masters don't want anyone trading with Bitcoin.. because trading with Bitcoin gets rid of their scam. As for speed they are both the same speed, BTC and BCH.. same speed, one block every 10 minutes; BTC has segwit blocks though which are limited to 4MB (of segwit transaction data) or only 1MB (of legacy transaction data). BCH has at least 8MB blocks, and are flexible even higher or lower. Roger owns both and uses both; Tone doesn't use either, not sure what Tone is even doing on stage; he is a poster boy for the banks pretending to care about crypto, even though he doesn't use it and doesn't know much about it.
@@Turbo_Tastic
Roger sold all his BTC holdings
@@chris0000924 If you download the Bitcoin.com wallet, by Roger Ver, you will see it easily handles both BTC and BCH;
@@Turbo_Tastic
That's suppose to prove his holdings?
@@chris0000924 who said anyone needed to prove his holdings; I'm saying he uses both and supports both on his website; as far as what he is "holding".. that's unknown he keeps that a secret.. probably sent it to many different addresses. Not sure what your point is but you don't seem to understand how crypto works
How can anyone fund a lightning node if they further reduce the BTC block size?? I tried setting up a Lightning wallet just to receive funds and I couldn't. It demanded that I somehow set up a channel and fund it with an expensive BTC payment.
None of these people (Charlie Lee and now Tone Vays) have been a worthy debater! I wish to be given a chance to publicly debate with Roger Ver to single-handedly dismantle his points:
1. If transaction fee is KING, use VISA/MasterCard. Fee is free on the consumer end.
2. Still if you insist on using cryptos instead of fiat, why not use LTC, ICX, IOTA, XLM? Heck, anything out there is virtually free of transaction fees because their blockchains are nowhere as utilized as their capacity.
3. Well now, if you insist on the name Bitcoin in it, why not use BSV? Fee is next to nothing, if not free. Bitcoin Gold? Bitcoin Diamond? Bitcoin Private? Super Bitcoin?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Now, one has to come to the realization that Bitcoin is highly valued, not because of high/low fees, but rather due to its decentralization.
5. Right now, the Hash Rate powering Bitcoin's proof-of-work is the highest of all.
6. What does that mean? Well, it simply proves that the network is LEAST susceptible to 51% attack, which would have compromised the immutability of Bitcoin.
7. Yes, you heard me right! That means that Bitcoin Cash is not as immutable as Bitcoin, and is highly susceptible to a 51% attack, resulting in double-spending and reversibility of transactions.
8. Secondly, the combined Hash Rate proves that Bitcoin has the most network effect, so much so that people are willing to devote their mining resources to support the network!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9. Well, why not scale on-chain? The problem lies in the second aspect of decentralization.
10. Yes, as Roger pointed out, the price of hard disk is getting cheaper with each passing year, hence his justification of doing on-chain scaling. However, here's the fallacy: While most people in developed countries can afford paying for 100TB of hard disks, such case simply DOES NOT APPLY to people in most developing countries. They start at a significantly lower minimum wages and on top of that, hard disks are more expensive in these countries than in developed ones.
11. Why would that matter? Turns out it does, because without the necessary storage, one cannot download the full Bitcoin blockchain output history, rendering fool-proof verification impossible!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12. Hold on a second - what if Satoshi Nakamoto magically appeared and revealed that on-chain scaling has always been his desire? Turns out that would not matter anymore. Yes, he was the inventor of Bitcoin, but he introduced to this world a concept of financial freedom through decentralization, meaning that complete sovereignty without having to listen to a single voice of authority!
13. Hence, anyone including Satoshi Nakamoto should NOT have any voice of authority to govern or police what the consensus community decides to do! If one is to listen solely to Satoshi's voice, how is that any different from listening to the Federal Reserve, or any tyrannical figure?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------I rest my case ---------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, almost everyone who debates Roger does a terrible job and cannot debate for their life. How the fuck does Tone spend about 2/3 of this debate justifying high bitcoin fees? It's like spending 2/3 of a debate about building extra lanes on a highway trying to justify traffic jams, rather than explaining that they are not desirable, but that adding new lanes only addresses the problem temporarily and with a lot of downsides, whereas optimisation is a much better solution with much more limited downsides.
Roger just hooks them in with his "high fee" argument every single time and they just take the bait and look like idiots because they are incapable of debating on a technical level (which is Roger's weak point no matter how hard he tries to convince you otherwise).
Tone is not the right person to represent bitcoin in debates. He is not very knowledgeable and every time he talks about price he thinks it is going down, including most of if not all of 2017. I find it strange for a bitcoin advocate to always tell people to sell. He also disabled youtube comments which shows how he feels about censorship. He's not a developer but some guy that sells trading stuff, why is someone like that the go to guy to represent bitcoin?
So true
Can i copy your comment? I want to post it on other youtube channel. Thanks
@@rai90000 Feel free!
Wow watched this again. Tone really got caught with his hand in the disinfo cookie jar.
Now you know why a snake toung is not the same as being right😉
BCH Marketcap will overtake BTC? A bit unlikely but we’ll see😉
Why is Roger still debating with this fool?
Hint: Controlled opposition.
When The Bitcoin SV Channel had Roger on their channel, and Roger was asked about Bitcoin SV, he had the nerve to say "what is it, I don't know much about it". That should show you true face of Roger Ver and what type of "Bitcoin system supporter" he actually is. He's bragging on for years how he is the first investor in Bitcoin, kept repeating same lines over and over, yet during the hashing war, an actual Satoshi consensus, he ends up cheating it, which was planed months in advance, and instead of supporting the Bitcoin system, he chooses to go against it, same as Core/Blockstream. If you still can't see that Roger is NOT a true supporter of Bitcoin system, then I feel sorry for you. This "debate" and every other one Roger has done, is just a SHOW.
BCH is controlled opposition, and Roger is not a supporter of Bitcoin, he is a fake. He had me fooled, but hash war eventually exposed his true intent.
Also when Tone Vays (who is very obvious dumbass and liar) talks about Lighting, Roger has the perfect opportunity to explain to him that Lightning is not scaling of Bitcoin, that going off-chain means NOT using Bitcoin, but Roger never actually says such thing... so much for Roger understanding Bitcoin. He has no clue. Roger is just an (financial) opportunist.
-ED- Bitcoin SV Channel is CSW SN?
#keys #copyright
@@5c4v3ng3r Yes, he is.
#PoW
@@-ED- Proof of Whitepaper
Roger killed it!
Roger shows how immature this market is. its laughable
Iron kak they both do
This btc dude really freaked out man; I am now leaning more towards bitcoin cash now. I see personally the fee of bitcoin when trying to use bitcoin.
Dumb ars 😉
this aged well
Wrong
You "debate" with the truth, you lose every time
What's the point of keep debating big blocks vs small blocks? By now everyone should know the pros and cons of both sides, and since both BTC and BCH exists we will eventually see which prevails.
own both but more of the one you think will succeed
Add these two guys together and what do you get?
Simple math.
Answer: A whole wit.
Painful to watch, but also really enjoyable to watch. Tone got absolutely destroyed. Tone "I don't use Lightning/I don't send small transactions/I don't refill my Lightning Wallet/I don't know if my website is getting substantial payments from Lightning" Vays. Tone is a professor of shilling for the banksters.
Dmb ars......😂🤣
At 1:06 it looks like Tone Vays gets up and starts sneaking around in the back ignoring what Roger is saying.
lol
Man Roger owned that guy. 5 cent free lmao. Yeah that transaction ain't going through for weeks.
Did roger Ver sell cars prior to tooting bcash?
He appeared in Toy Story as Woody
Bch for electronic payments Rock BTC does not.BTC is great as a speculative asset.However anyone can choose the one they want , I like both for different reasons .
Getting them(pool) to include you in a block before people who paid more does not happen in real life unless you are Tone vays and CHEAT.Tone makes me dislike BTC , Roger used to annoy me however the more I find out about him the higher he rises in my opinions.He has integrity, so he tirelessly unashamedly promotes his product , It would be incorrect of him not to .Tone is a Tosser.
i agree with you completely
I just don't see, how people can get "annoyed" by a person like roger, who is never trying to weazel out of something and is always 100% truthful and polite (besides that ONE time carvallho the PoS made him give him a well deserverd stinky finger).
Disagreeing is one thing, but attacking his character or suggesting, he is not literally "Bitcoin-Jesus" compared to any other Cryptopersonality is completely out of question in my opinion.
I mean, is it because he is "repeating" him self? Or his "high pitched voice"? Or is it the "loaded questions" he asks the shills and trolls @blockstream? Guess what, if these are the reasons, it's not Roger who's being an annoying person.
Roger cares about the world and the people oppressed by Govts worldwide, Tone supports Govt oppression and could care less about human beings..
@@eKoush well said
Tone was just murdered by words. Brutal!
BTC - gold
BCH - cash
XMR - privacy
ETH - smart contracts
No need for anything else.
Peter Sky litecoin is cash
Litecoin
But out of all of these coins Ethereum is best suited to achieve all these goals in the future. Sharding etc. = speed with decentralization. ZKSNARKS best privacy technology. Store of value = number 2 in crypto and Smart contracts = crypto loans and a million different use cases. However that is all for the future at the moment the other coins have advantages.
I think Bitcoin Cash will be the day to day used currency.
However, Bitcoin itself with be the trusted digital gold for large transactions/transfers.... and for investment/savings and portfolio uses.
I think Bitcoin will be just a “meme coin” for being the first crypto. It’s a dinosaur in computer age
Did it go through?
Roger Ver knows his shit. Dont debate with him if you arent prepared.
God damn, Tone is the King of NPCs.
what does npc mean please? thanks a lot in advance scavenger -- i like what you did there dude
@@krekre806 how do you like what I did there if you dont even know what it is?
@@5c4v3ng3r I think he meant he liked how you wrote your username. @KRE KRE an "npc" -- short for non-player character, like in video games -- is considered to be kind of a braindead person, just spouting off the mainstream talking points others say
@@5c4v3ng3r He was complimenting you on your handle. Duuuude.
And a nasty little poser...
I am all for bitcoin but Roger is indeed the bitcoin Jesus and he is 100% right. The fees must be tiny and lightning is still a work in progress unfortunately. I hope the bitcoin people will start listening to Roger and use his inputs to make bitcoin better.
We are all one against the central bankers and fake money.
WE LOVE ROGER!
Whenever I use crypto to buy something. It’s always Bitcoin Cash.
I like Roger, but the transaction got through later that night and Roger unfortunatelly lost the bet.
Tone vays clearly had miner mine that transaction
@@ghostacosta8615 I'm wondering if that's even possible, but, I thought the same thing.
But how does that work if you're wanting to buy something at a storefront? Do you promise the merchant that he'll get his money by tonight???
@@ayy2193 Thanks for the input Dawn. I know that if I wanted $money, I would need to exchange for crypto. What I was talking about is the merchant waiting for his account balance go up by the amount of your purchase. I should have used the term "get paid" instead of of "get his money". In the case of BTC or BCH, we must move away from the need to convert it to fiat. Network effect can achieve this if participation continues to grow. Cheers!
@@dougthfret7796 Good point ...lol
Roger is respectful and professional, clear winner
Tone is completely out-debated by Roger who clearly knows what he's talking about. Tone is talking shit. Cringe.
If Roger wasn't a bitcoin cash advocate, he would have made a great lawyer!
Symph Yep, Roger is simply better at debating. He would make a great lawyer. He puts his opponent in a position where they have to make assertions, expending mental energy; and he keeps them in that position by questioning the validity of every assertion. He expends little to no energy while Tone gets drained quickly. This same thing happened when that lawyer Jason something went onto his show during the BTC 10 year anniversary live stream. Jason completely dominated the LTC vs BTC debate using the same strategy. Tone needs to prepare and learn to debate. He’s doing the whole BTC community a disservice by not preparing.
or a politician ...
@@MountainKing408 Spot On!
The more I listen to Roger, the more I start to understand his point of view. It seems like his motivations are perhaps outside of himself (although he will make a lot of money in the future) and that Bitcoin that "wins" may well be BCH because of the cheap and fast transactions. BCH to BTC seems like the evolution from Gold to Gold Backed Cash. Thoughts?
Thoughts…you were wrong
Roger Ver doesn't understand Bitcoin. Interesting and true.
Amen.
Joakim Holmer🇸🇪
Roger won easily, I don't understand how anyone can think Tone won that debate
even if it cleared within 1 hour (and it didn't + he paid the miners to push it) it is still unusable for any real purpose..
scammers and criminals always have a way with words and come out looking like they are on top. That skill is how they manage to scam people.
why does it say "BTC CASH" and not "BCH" ? wtf
BCH PLS
because roger is a scammer
Tone did have a good point. I mean obviously the fees are higher with BTC than BC, BUT part of that is because so many more people are using BTC compared to BC. Not all of it of course, but it is a factor. Further it is not a case of one or the other. Both work at what they are good for. BTC is a HODL tool for the most part and I don't mind fees that are much less than a credit card but controlled completely by me, and funded completely by me.
if MORE people would use BCH the fees would get even lower. You have no clue.
And BTC fees are NOT much less than a credit card. If Bitcoin gets even a tiny fraction of the usage as it is intended you will have to pay up to 50 or even 100$ PER TRANSACTION. Fees already where in the thousands for short periods of times during the last bullrun.
You can LITERALLY be your own bank with holding Bitcoin Cash, just as you can be with hodling BTC. Both are almost identical, while BCH hasn't capped it's transaction limit at extremely low 7tx per second, which is a joke.
Furthermore it's a stupid and short sighted narrative to think "HODL" is a strategy or a use case for Bitcoin and also if you think it's okay to pay exorbitant fees for a tx, just because you made millions by speculating on it. You just priced out 90% of the world from using it as it was intended. What would you even want to HODL such a coin, if there is nothing else that you can do with it and every transaction will cost you your gains? This is as if you'Re telling me that "PONZI" is your Bitcoin strategy.
@@eKoush idk shit about BCH, the fees really get cheaper with more usage?
Tone Vays is clueless
Doesn't seem like Tone vays needs much help making a fool out of him self every time i hear him speak. But i would like to thank Roger Ver for helping to drive home the fact that Tone Vays is a fool...
"i don't mind paying a higher fee" Some people in third world countries do mind. Thats not to say that BCH is the answer but BTC is not the way to go for peer to peer transactions on a small scale.
Roger won the debate ppl
Should’ve had Richard Heart and Roger Ver instead of Borat
Richard Heart doesn't know what he's talking about either.
It already happened: th-cam.com/video/AkbSrmsYJ9c/w-d-xo.html
Actually - Borat v Borat. Subject - my egos bigger than yours. Result - pain for the audience.
So much cringe. It feels wrong calling it a debate when Tone is gargling on his own words while Roger is hitting the same, practiced debate points he's been using since BCH inception. I'm not a BCH advocate, but at least Roger knows his talking points. Tone sounds like he's 3 cocktails in and ready to get back to the party. Has Roger ever debated Andreas Antonopoulos? It would be worth watching him talk to someone with working knowledge and the ability to speak.
Luis Egea Roger is a bully plain and simple ...
Hate that he uses bitcoin.com for btrash... I would mind the project half as much if it were honest.
Both Roger Ver and Tone Gays are unstrustable individual
So sad that Roger Ver has so high ego and is so manipulating and an expert in taken the words out of peoples mouth and say back nonsense. Almost every interview he takes down to people and interrupt them and say the same exact sentence (try to overlap the videos it is true!). Of course he want bcash to win because he bet most of his holdnings on that "horse" so he want it to succeed to make him ultra rich. Don't be fooled by his propaganda!
Promoting BTC exclusively makes no sense what-so-ever.. why would Tone Vays spend so much time doing just that? Because he comes from JP Morgan Chase, which if Bitcoin is used as cash, it will completely undermine their banking scam.. which is why he is pushing Lightning centralized node trading, or just holding Bitcoin without spending it ... because Tone's masters don't want anyone trading with Bitcoin.. because trading with Bitcoin gets rid of their scam. As for speed they are both the same speed, BTC and BCH.. same speed, one block every 10 minutes; BTC has segwit blocks though which are limited to 4MB (of segwit transaction data) or only 1MB (of legacy transaction data). BCH has at least 8MB blocks, and are flexible even higher or lower. Roger owns both and uses both; Tone doesn't use either, not sure what Tone is even doing on stage; he is a poster boy for the banks pretending to care about crypto, even though he doesn't use it and doesn't know much about it.
i love BitcoinCash...... From indonesia.....
@@spg9392 why?
@@iwayansukerta9874 because it is a SCAM
Yeah,, same, walaupun mining dikuasai setengahnya dri perusahaan tetapi pasar membutuhkan itu. Yang penting cepat, low fee
@@spg9392
If you want to be an effective troll, make it less obvious
@@Snide01 Im not a troll. I am the truth! Roger Ver is the lie (with a giant vagina)
The debate was over within the first 5 minutes. Rodger pretty much summed it up by explaining and actually demonstrating. They say tones transaction is still in the memepool to this day lol. It’s widely known by now that Ver always demolishes tone in these debates. Still fun to watch
Yep Roger ran with it and won. Tone will cause BTC decline
Hahahahah
Not really a great debate to be fair. Just a shouting match between ego heads of crypto.
yea i hate how i move .02 btc and it cost me 4 usd and not even instant if it cost you so much at least should be instant
@Samo Vedrana never done that dude this is about tecnology not sure about what your saying, this is not a mail letter, everything has a price and the cost should depend on how good it is.
ok I only made it 4:17. no need to watch further. Tone is a tool who gives no 💩 about fees. Sorry, but speed and transaction costs matter. Roger proves his point, BTC cannot act as a currency.
Why can't we have both?
Bingo!
It hurts my brain when Tone speaks.
lol, this Roger guy is just murdering this red sweatshirt ...
I would love to hear how the tx turned out. Just don't feel like watching another video either of these clowns.
In regards to BTC, I typically send transactions for 1 or 2 sat/byte and never had one tx sit in the mem pool for over 13 hrs since Jan 2017.
BTC is King of security and decentralization. BCH works exceedingly well for cash; along with, but quite possibly even better than, almost every other alt. I just get turned off by the incessant marketing by Roger. I do, however, respect his drive and devotion; he could easily just retire on some island beach somewhere.
You hold some cash on hand, but net worth is best kept in the most secure location possible. Just my 2 sats
hows that workin out 4 u
I am embarrassed for ever owing btc. This is shocking .
Title should read 'Roger Ver destroys Tone Vays)
Roger said the transaction would be "stuck in the mempool for days, or potential weeks". Pedantically trying to define the meaning of a day does not change the fact that Roger grossly lost on the point he solely based his argument on. Not wanting to pay out 10k to a charity only makes him look like more of a fool.
nobody cares, they all see Tone as an ass hat
So much fraudulent activity in the crypto sphere, and BCH is the most shameless
why would you even bother writing such a blatanly substanceless comment, you literally said nothing.
'fraudulent activity' doesn't even mean anything, I could say Tommy Mikalsen is doing fraudulent activity, what is the reader supposed to take from that? and how is a blockchain - an inanimate tool with no governing body or agency supposed to be an actor? it's akin to saying 'ETH is mean, BTC is evil' how fucking stupid
The substance of Roger’s argument is not all that bad. His style is what really puts me off.
Roger by now of course has been outed as faking the transactions on bitcoin cash.
LOL. where do you get your bs news from? I need more laughs.
I think many people don't understand Bitcoin and its incentives.
Roger destroyed this guy. It was really hard to watch someone get murdered this badly.
Tone Vays is embarrassing and Roger Ver whipes the floor with him.
There's actually no real point in debating BTC versus BCH. Here's why:
By the time Bitcoin Cash is a household name (if this ever even happens - say 5 years from now), Bitcoin, as a base level computer protocol, will have stacked upon it, so many useful apps INCLUDING more than a few "buy coffee", "buy gas", "pay mortgage" "pay babysitter" apps that are virtually FREE to use WHILE UTILIZING BTC, that using ANY other cryptocurrency will be redundant at best.
Having said that, I believe there will be thousands of ways to send 1 penny and 1 dollar tips and payments instantly to anyone, anywhere, for near zero fees and with 100% anonymously. The key here is patience. The first printing press was incredibly primitive. That's what we're still dealing with here . . . except that blockchain tech is moving at lightning speed. Pun intended.
Tone and Roger are like two caveman babies hammering out misunderstanding with stone tools.
Two of the more ridiculous people in the space who give credence to the existence of the fabled "ManChild".
Yes part man and part child.
That's a pretty bold speculation. The Lightning Network, which was promised to solve fee problems, has been in development since 2015 and it's still in beta. After numerous broken promises to scale BTC, I stopped believing the hype and promises of what will come in the future. The sensible approach is to modestly increase block size to alleviate high fees, while simultaneously working on second-layers and the "apps" you envision.
Here the dilemma that’s going to happen and interestingly enough Roget has a valid foreseeable point that tone is missing. Average user ability for the common person to buy everyday items. BTC original vision was to be used as everyday commerce not a store of wealth or considered digital gold. What do we do with gold? We hoard it! Whose going to spend bitcoin when it 1M per bitcoin for bread or milk ? So yes tone is right people are using BTC way more in transactions now but In the not so distant future grandma won’t use BTC for every day purchases even if the fees are considerably low.
exactly
"Whose going to spend bitcoin when it 1M per bitcoin for bread or milk ?"
What does this even mean?
@@resmarted I don't think he knows you can spend fractions of a bitcoin lol.
@@resmarted You know gotdamn well what it means unless your dunce.
@@Dutchman294 Listen noob grandma won't know how to spend a fraction of a bitcoin and if she does do you honestly think she's going to go to the grocery store to break a fraction of a bitcoin if the value of BTC goes to 1 million per bitcoin? BTC is over 8k now in USD and the crypto community doesn't even spend it at the local store level now at these prices!
so sad to see roger ver turning his back on the obvious.. only thinking of his brand and not the big picture
He's always on the move going to business meeting getting bitcoin cash adopted by the world.
lol. He is telling you the obvious. it's so sad that SO MANY PEOPLE do not get it.
ROGER KO TONE.
I just transferred a dollar using bluewallet with BTC at 5 SATs/ byte. Cost a few cents. Took an hour.
Easy to verify by doing it yourself.
the problem with crypto is when you have two figureheads in the space like these two.
I'm glad XRP is the best digital asset... and represented by a professional team
Yeah but compare these two to Vitalik. Chalk and Cheese. There are smart guys in the space too.
@@davycrockett8886 no doubt, very smart folks in the space but make no mistake roger ver is not just promoting bcash for the love of crypto, he could make Billions+ off its potential success
@@darith770 its not the best digital asset, does it have potential sure, but its not there yet
Our ignorant, douchey end-users like you. Roger's involvement in Bitcoin and other project was quite contrary to what you say, a huge win and a great support for crypto.
And your second point, that Roger is advocating BCH because he wants to make billions is so out of touch, I feel bad for replying to such a moron like you.
Roger is right
Tone disabled comments on his video? Not to mention its him narrating over the video and picking and choosing what he showed.
this is an awesome show and great views. thank you for sharing.
LOL! And people are still interviewing Tone! If only the NPCs could see the hypocricy of every point Roger leads Tone into... exposing his hypocricy. Lightning isn't bitcoin. U don't hold ur own funds. Its reintermediated. Its inherently friction. Core=retrograde. Tone is a perfect representation of the Core fallacy and hypocricy, living in a fantasy of the past which has inadequate present time utility