Why Red Bull copies slower F1 cars
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2024
- Red Bull made a remarkable admission when it revealed its latest Formula 1 car upgrades.
Under regulations introduced in 2022, teams must now disclose new parts in a document issued ahead of the start of free practice.
Unusually, Red Bull stated explicitly in this document that one of its new parts took inspiration from competitor designs. So at a time when everyone is looking to Red Bull for ideas, it is drawing them from slower rivals.
And most remarkably, Red Bull also pointed to the weakest team from the new ground effect regulations era as the first to come up with this idea.
So let’s take a closer look at exactly what Red Bull copied, the role Adrian Newey’s unique approach plays in this and why it’s not so easy for its rivals simply to do the same thing and draw inspiration from the all-conquering Red Bull RB19.
00:00 Surprising admission
00:51 What Red Bull copied
03:14 The Newey factor
05:51 Why it's so difficult
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Yeah, what are they gonna do? Copy faster teams? :)
Yes 😂🙌
Chuckle
Because text is really hard at times to classify as a dry joke or lack of knowledge (not stupidity! I'm not saying that at all!), here are my two answers to your comment, covering both bases!
A) Lol! Good one! 😂
B) The point being it's not all just coming from his own head. 🤷🏻♀️
Take your pick as to the one you feel is best 😉
Good point 🌞
Omegalol
This was a good explanation of how teams don’t copy designs. Teams copy concepts, and you must understand why that concept works in order to copy it correctly.
Yup, Remember the "Tracing Point" saga? They were great initially, but struggled as other teams upgraded because they never understood what they had copied
ya, it's not exactly the part for part, it's the why are they doing this, what's it do, etc
I agree. It's like fhe whole rb floor saga after perez' car was lifted into orbit.
Teams can try copy it but copying Greek is all good and we'll but if ya don't speak it ya lost lol.
@@MrSniperfox29 exactly. When the 21 regulations were put in place to nerf mercedes racing point was caught up in the crossfire. However merc quickly evolved round it, racing point didn't.
It's the classic copy homework, the copier can't understand why something was done that way
@@pauls5745 the amr23 is not a copy its a completely new concwpt inspired by Ferrari and a bit of redbull but its sidepods are completely different than redbulls just as Mercedes or Ferrari designs are all different
It's the humility of Adrian that adds to his technical ability, making him the best overall designer. Many would be too proud to take inspiration from the slowest car and weakest team on the grid. But Adrian recognises that he doesn't have all the answers and that just because a team is at the back doesn't mean that everything they do is bad. What a legend.
Well said.
Not to detract from the Newey train but l am almost certain, that this is something lots of teams do. I know Ferrari doesn't attract much praise but I do believe they were 1st to do so last season.
"Many would be too proud"? You're sure? I think it's the complete opposite. Everyone is looking at what the other teams are doing.
You realize the Red Bull team isn’t just newey?
@@cyan_oxy6734 Merc did't want to admit they had it wrong for a long time..
i like to think every team has one guy staring at pictures of the red bull floor for 8 hours a day lol
That is probably true
Well it would be hard to copy faster teams :/
Adrian Newey is actually just a time traveller from future Red Bull, copying the future faster Red Bull, and telling it to the current Red Bull.
@@groundedgaming maybe he's doing that now...that explains the advantage😂
That's one of the things that intrigues me about the sport. A slow team still has good ideas but it's about how you put the entire package together . Adrian always looks very carefully at all of the cars.
Humility is a great advantage for Newey and how he works. It shows not only respect to your rivals, but also openness that innovation and ideas really can come from anywhere, and that is something that many engineers and older generations can tend to forget
him and every single aero engineer deserves a massive pay rise
Most people look at the car be like ‘wow’, while Newey looks at the air moving. That’s why horner said newey can see air.
amazing words Newey said after learning RB's wind tunnel time penalties..:'the computer simulations & wind tunnel is only there to confirm what we already knew would work..'..!!..it says it all on the confidence him & his team of aero-magicians have in their work & knowlege..Horner said :'he's the only bloke I know that can 'see' the air' moving around a race car.....'
The proper penalty for the budget cap breach would have been to limit RB's Newey time 😂
@@MarcelVolker😂😂😂😂. That was good one.
Adrian Newey the Airbender
Absolute Genius 👍👍
man just run wind tunnel in his head
The Williams is a slippery car. It's basic floor as we saw is probably why it's losing everywhere else but it's slippery. Newey is always getting a good look at a competitor. He was taking a good look long at the Mercedes in Barcelona.
Copying without understanding the reason or purpose is called pagerisum and frowned upon.
"Copying" with fundamental understanding of the reason and purpose behind is called "Learning". An ability only few animals have.
It's interesting that Gary Anderson 's iopinion was given about the RB upgrades. Anderson and Newey designed what were arguably the two best chassis of the 1991 season.
This is how I use to write exams in high school. Stretching " redbull got inspired from Williams diffuser" to a 9 min video...
if newey ever retires I would really love it if someone asks him after his opinion on how to make other concepts work like the zero sidepods for example or the bathtubs
But they work.
Tiny gains should never be ignored. Smart RB for evaluating several times whether or not this small tweak was worth it
Finally a watchable video. I much prefer the factual and un-speculated non-opinion based videos..
bila nok dakwa tu? sembang suh tunggu tp takdok tarikh dok gune boh..
When I was in design school my professor always said : "If you don't have an idea to design from scratch. just do ATM (Amati, Tiru, Modifikasi)" it's meaning Observe, Copy, and Modify it. It helps me to learn, and make new design. and surprisingly that's adrian newey do when he's learning too 😅
Di univku kalau dikasih tugas, biasanya gitu juga, ATM dan ofcourse, PARAPHRASE
Horner once said that Newey is the only person on the grid who can actually see air. If you can see air, you also having a pretty good understanding why a design detail of your competitor can be of use because it might improve your own car...
This is a great type of video, this is what I would love to see more on this channel!
Redbull being back on top where they belong is SO awesome!
You just know Newey could find a way to make the zero pods work on the Mercedes 😂
I think so too. It was Newey’s design signatures that his past F1 cars had aggressively small sidepods with very slim coke bottle design. I understand the ground effect car has different aero philosophy but to be honest, I was really surprised when I saw 2022 RB18 with bulky sidepods (very un-Newey-esque design) pictures for the 1st time😅
He *did* try it a long time ago, it's called the McLaren mp4/18. It failed and never raced because it overheated and he couldn't find a way to deal with that. He even said when Merc first rolled out their 2022 car that he was pretty worried they managed to get it done, knowing exactly from experience with the same concept that the results, if you can make it work, are big.
Its been likely killing him too. Like bro, just hand me to sketchbook and I'll solve your miserable design.
the zero pods did actually work quite good for something completely new. mercedes hit a wall they couldnt breakt through and then have 1-2 teams just going past them
where i can find this video of Newey explaining and talking about the car ? i love this tech talks, ty for the video.
That purple williams sure looks fast
This video raises an interesting point; ignorant copying doesn't work - it needs full integration. This leads me to believe that the 2020 Racing Point wasn't merely an inspiration of the 2019 Mercedes but they must sure have had VERY DETAILED blueprints of that car in order to get the type of results they were getting that season. It was very close to a clone as you can get.
These guys are so ahead of the game it’s crazy. I wish they would’ve figured it out years ago but the regs and engine were against them. 2021 regs favored their rake concept, and they’ve been going from there
Each team has something unique about it, kudos to Redbull and Newey for pushing the limits and never stopping
Yeah well being unique at the back of the grid isn't exactly anyones goal lol but yes, even a back marker team might have something of value somewhere
Neweys infamous walk down the grid with his notebook.
I tend to think of Adrian Newey as a teacher that knows literary everything. Whilst other teams play the student role in his classroom.
Really? So where was the teacher that knows literally everything between 1990 and 2o10, huh?
Where was his genius between 2014 and 2o21? I personally still believe Enzo Ferrari, Rory Bryne, Colin Chapman, are better F1 car designers than Adrian Newey.
More importantly than knowing everything, Adrian Newey knows that he doesn't know everything. His willingness to learn helps him improve himself and the RB.
@@herrguru4264 still learning far as 1990 to 2010, as for colin Chapman he was the teacher of his time to which many learned from him as they did from Enzo Ferrari.
@@LindaJuffermans true, true think he's still got alot to give before he retires I'd imagine.
@@herrguru4264aerodynamically RBR was still one of the better teams after 13’, but the Renault PU was laughably underpowered & unreliable compared to the bulletproof Mercedes PU, (which also happened to be a rocketship).
Newey is a genius. He has stated that he chose to make core design changes in places that cannot ,effectively, change during the season, like the suspension and of course the floor (which its hard to get info for). Given RB came into the season with a significant tunnel time disadvantage rendering most development during the season hard to foolproof test and confirm it translates the same on track as it does on paper, he chose to have a headstart in places rivals couldnt immediately copy and implement on their own projects.
Because there are certain components (like the suspension philosophy) which are so crucial parts of the whole design of the car, that just taking what RB has done and putting it on your own car will not work in the slightest as it influences everything else on a fundamental level. Teams will for sure catch up to RB and i think that close to the end of the season Mercedes will be winning races. The leap they made with the current upgrade package was insane.
Aston is kind of done for, which is often the case with teams choosing to produce a full copycat car without having the knowledge required to develop it further on their own. Ferrari is a lost cause.
I'll bet you are wrong about mercedes and its aston that advance.
@@spaceli0n Sure is a long shot since its just intuition. It was just a guess.
I think you are wrong saying Aston is done for since this is literally their own design not a copycat.
@@LimitPro1 ok
Really? So where was the genius between 1990 and 2o10, huh?
Where was his genius between 2014 and 2o21? I personally still believe Enzo Ferrari, Rory Bryne, Colin Chapman, are better F1 car designers than Adrian Newey.
Great explanation video!
I imagine that constantly analyzing other teams design ideas would consume limited simulation time. You have to have the insight on what changes are worth investigating.
Where can you see these documents?
Newey rose when aero was key and uses a skill set than no one else on the grid can do, not even James allinson can do what he can
Engineers with little black note books who used CAD drawing boards have a skill that no computer can do
Inc a engine that is above the others and this is the result to what is happening now
I’m a merc fan and if the 2014 Renault donkey was on par with the merc lump it would have been a different story
Don't forget that Gerry Anderson created the "Thunderbirds" TV series.
Brilliant job much greatful thnx 👍👍🙌🙌🔥🔥
So many arm chair aerodynamicists were laying in to williams as being completely undeveloped when the two underfloors were showing up on twitter and youtube.
I feel like that is a confidence boost for Williams that they are having their parts nicked by Red Bull
It's just a matter of time before they start slipping the drivers laxatives for that 0.015 second per lap advantage
Were it not, that all the weight in the driver's seat has to add up to 80 kg minimum, or something like that. It's in the regulations.
@@transient_ jezzz! I bet you're fun at parties
The top 3 teams all have a unique development program and their cars are all developed different…. Seeing Red Bulls floor is one thing, making it work is another
Williams must have quite good aero on their car because with their floor I'm surprised they're actually as competitive as they are
It's article 17.3.3 of the TECHNICAL regulations, not the sporting regulations!
Usually the greatest minds are also the most humble.
GREAT VIDEO!
Seems to me, the radius of the diffuser exit corners is just another variable. And keeping it small is a trivial choice rather than a brilliant idea. I mean, if the rule says the exit must fit within a certain rectangle, the maximum area is achieved by having no radius at all. Maybe something in the rules that keeps it from getting too small, so RB need to make sure to point out a prior example that hasn't yet been banned.
I think the rule is that it can't be a sharp corner, it must have a curve. I know that's the rule on other parts of the car. Maybe it's also true for the diffuser. It's the reason Alfa Romeo(?) could have those weird end plates on the rear wing last season. It wasn't an end plate, the wing simply had a complicated curve.
How's that for humility. I wonder how Mercedes described their 'updates' for Monaco????
Of the engineers on the grid today, who would you guys say rivals (or at least second best) Newey in terms of ability to understand aero?
I was expecting a feature not a fillet radius change lol
Such is the world of F1 I suppose
This explains how RB can advance without having to create everything from scratch. It’s about making anyone’s innovation usable on their own platform. Copying a body needs to be followed up by understanding where and when the power comes from. Nothing stands alone in the optimising of an F1 Car … Merc does things very differently. I’d guess that they divide the car and put specialist’s into optimising their speciality. This fell down when the package didn’t come together last year and they couldn’t afford enough specialists to integrate their package optimally … I think it’s the RB methodology and leadership that keeps them ahead this season. I see Merc improving but wonder if it is going to last …
Great video
great vid!
I can't wrap my head around this. How can't so brilliant engineers who are probably doctors in aerodynamics just make a car that fits all the needs. Like, there are so many ways of designing and then testing out these aerodynamics. Draw it, put it into the PC, run a simulation, build a clay model. Make it from Glass Fiber instead of Carbon to just have the form to be tested in the wind tunnel. Just how hard can it be to catch up to RB. Again, im talking about engineers who do nothing but aero design and are paid god knows how much and they can do that?
One can only laugh at the commentator seriously pointing out a flatter corner on the rear diffuser area is something that Williams allegedly got right and it somehow implies great engineering acumen as opposed to dumb luck - what about the rest of the car? 😂
This just reminds that other teams have great engineers and innovative ideas too.
Nothing new. In the late 90ies alnost everybody copied the X wings of the Tyrrell. The Tyrrell was a horrible car, yet the X wings were a good design.
A wise man knows he knows nothing
If Adrian Newey copied my idea I'd put that on my business cards!
everyone looking at Newey, Newey looking at everyone else
I feel like Newey should move to Williams and make them great again. He's on another level to others and can change the fortunes of a team with the swipe of a pencil.
I would have thought AM would be superior to Newey in this regard. They have produced two cars with their notebook and curiosity and making them both work.
The "Newey" advantage, is that his eyes are the original 3d scanner! He scans it with his eyes, and stores it in that massive brain! Red Bull lost a couple key people, so I expect to see a couple teams back to the battle at the front.
"the lack of technical arrogance". i like your choice of words.
I would love to work for Redbull
It must be hell with Marko and Horner around.
a good idea is a good idea, regardless of who it comes from
Could you do a special about why most F1 teams are based in England and why you mostly hear British accents over team radios, even with teams who aren’t based in England? Why are the Austrians, Germans and French based in England? Why isn’t Mercedes in Germany? A country who is world renowned for its engineering and makes cars like no other. It doesn’t make sense, especially since looking at the British teams like Williams and McLaren, who are rubbish, it suggests there’s no advantage to being based there.
Bro got so bored of winning he started to take notes of slow cars and make them master 💀💀💀
If you slow, team, it doesn't make you useless.
you say that F1 cars are not modular, yet all teams run the same ECU, and the same halo, and the same side impact protection
The fact Red Bull had to copy Williams make me feel a little better at night
Narrator Voice:
"MEANWHILE... At the 'Fortress of Bullshit' also known as McLaren HQ... ."
RBR isn't going to get massive gains. They have such a fast car already that any gain they find are going to be tiny. Unless they find some magic bullet. Williams, AT, and sauber are the only ones really to make a massive gain.
Because Adrian Newey operates in a mysterious ways that are beyond the comprehension and understanding for us mere mortals.
"... but you can't scan a car..."
Take enough pictures, and with some 3D Photogrammetry you have the next best thing.
Williams was one of the fastest cars in a straight line at the beginning of this season. Slowest car on track is pretty relative when it comes to car design.......
Floor design
I wonder if the other members of Redbulls design team get pissed off and Newy always getting the praise
Williams is slow because they have a floor that generates hardly any downforce. The rest of the aero package needs to make up for that.
RB is playing 4D chess
Next, the FIA will make Adrian's actual presence on track illegal, claiming his brain has CFD powers, then forbid him from working on any F1 team lol
Last red bull update: a claxon🎺for passing
BEEP BEEP !!!
Finally a good vid not talking about Hamilton this and that....
So you need to have great catering team to fully understand everything and make it work.
Ok, got it
How many times can you repeat yourself in a video?
The race: "yes"
At this point they are just bantering everyone
At this rate, just invest and develop your own up.
Back in the 1980s I got the best physics test results. I was not the best at physics so this provoked scrutiny but as I got more than the stars of the class it was accepted. How did I do this? Simply I confess I copied the smartest kid but noticed a couple of mistakes and corrected those in my answers. Is this how it works in F1?
pretty much...improvement over existing product never ends
I swear I’ve seen this video before 😅
Simple answer to why red bull are willing to copy the slowest team is because they have no technical arrogance like for example if red bull had turned up with a car with zero side pods and within a couple of races nothing was making sense and there was another team miles ahead they would of scrapped the design there and then
I def enjoyed this one!
"Slower" teams can still have unique design elements that are individually better than the RB, on an otherwise slower car. Only a fool disregards a "slower" competitor's design out of hand.
Because they have the right ideas but don't have the capital and expertise to put them in practice correctly. It's genius
G E N I U S 🧠
you can really see how basic williams's floor is
Newey has them cfd eyes, he can spot shit that works on other cars during his gridwalk
In Christian Horner's words, "Newey can see air, and how it flows around a car"
Here's hoping Red Bull copies the rest of Williams too.
Is that a compliment towards Williams?
It is to make it a bit more challenging for Verstappen
Cause they can!
Because there isn't anyone faster rn.
Because, if you can do it slow , you can do it fast
Can we have a video without redbull Been talked about or mentioned there's 9 other teams 🤷♂️ love the content but I can only listen to how newey looks at cars and how great he is so many times.
He is a very clever man but there's 600+ people at redbull.
Can we hear more about the others 🤷♂️😊
mercedes' w13 lauched with that difuser design didnt it?