Why Mercedes’ dramatically different F1 car upgrades are also restricted
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2024
- Brought to you by Aramco: bit.ly/3WHpLas
The debut of the much-anticipated Mercedes upgrade package at Monaco was inconclusive, but it gives us a clear indication of the direction Mercedes has staked its long-term hopes of transforming from also-ran into title challenger on.
Monaco allowed Mercedes to get started with a package that was visually dramatically different and represented the first deviation from the zero-sidepod concept used since the start of this ground-effect regulations era.
The results at Monaco didn’t look dramatically different to usual, with Lewis Hamilton sixth fastest in qualifying with a deficit that was only fractionally closer to the front than the average Mercedes disadvantage the first five race. Hamilton finished fourth, ahead of Russell.
But there was still something to learn both for Mercedes and The Race, so let’s take a closer look at the changes and the rationale behind what team principal Toto Wolff called “a fundamental shift in the design direction”.
00:00 Intro
01:17 The upgrade
03:14 New floor
05:02 New sidepods
07:00 Front suspension changes
09:54 The verdict
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I’m curious to what the Mercedes engineers thought when we saw the redbull floor this weekend. That thing is insane, it makes merc and Ferrari look prehistoric
Short of giving the car a colonoscopy I'm pretty sure the merc engineers were all over that...
5 bucks says back at Mercedes base they tryna deduce what they can from what they saw lol.
@@RoadRash89 They won't be able to do too much about it because of the cost cap, which limits development. The chassis is locked as well so that's a hard limitation as to how far they can go with certain changes, but it's something they can learn from in the future. This for all teams not just Mercedes. At least one debate is settled, Redbull are in a league of their own.
They’re a different philosophy. Mercedes is still using the big kick up at the rear of its diffuser, Red Bull uses more lateral expansion to produce pressure changes that don’t vary so much with ride heigh. Mercedes’ is more powerful in simulation, Red Bull’s more consistent on the road. Ferrari somewhere in between. Red Bull’s isn’t automatically faster, but with more effective suspension, better flow to the beam wing it creates a more stable car. Mercedes have become a bit tunnelled since 2020 into minimising emgeering packaging to create the maximum range for creation in upper body aero design. The simplification of suspension systems took away a Mercedes strength, but they haven’t compensated for this change as effectively as Red Bull, with Newey ripping up the how to design a car blueprint in the search to add rake to a ground effect car, in development that’s led to a more manageable platform all round.
Perez really shot redbull on the foot with that one.
@@jervyan yes I’m sure Red Bull weren’t happy with checo but being it was in Monaco is what made it worse, for both Red Bull and checo. Not being able to regain all of the lost positions gives Max a bit of a point buffer.
They must be credited for doing everything possible to make the concept work, personally I liked it a lot, and realistically if a mid-table team had worked on it and achieved the results that Mercedes did it would have been considered a success. but to Mercedes, just like Redbull and Ferrari, win its the only option
Hamilton and Perez gave the world a wonderful insight into the floor development and especially how the RB has been extensively developed compared to the basic Mercedes floor. All other teams now will be looking at the RB floor design & look to learn and take inspiration from them!
If only it were that easy...
@@soundscape26 it’s definitely not easy but nowadays with the technology they have in F1 they can get close to it and sometimes even improve on it by coming up with their own twists or redesign to suit their car. But ultimately it gives them a platform and target to start with. If it was impossible to copy then they wouldn’t be so worried about other teams seeing under their cars and the floor.
No amount of technology can make up for a fundamental lack of understanding as to what is actually going on. Only RB has Newey - no one is going to be able to just 'copy' the under floor just by looking at it.
How do you know Merc floor is basic? Are you an engineer?
@@tomlandry932 Yep! CFD engineer if you want me to be specific….. but it’s not rocket science anyway as any normal person can see the Merc floor is basic in comparison to the RB 🤷🏽♂️. Unless you’re assuming by me saying it’s basic I’m insulting the Mercedes - well no I’m not I’m just comparing the two floors.
Oh god no Aramco is back
Aramco is epic
What's wrong with them? I missed some videos
Best sponsor 👌
pay to sponsor their content then otherwise deal with Aramco
@@krustykallus1462 epic at doing crimes against humanity in Saudi Arabia
One thing we need to agree on, Ground Effect cars are very shitty cars, not just to design but to drive.
I honestly don't know why F1 continues to do this.
I can’t wait for the RACE Red Bull floor analysis, now that we have a full view of it
I am surprised there has been no video about the RB underfloor that we all saw when Perez smashed his car in qualifying.
There's no need for that all F1 teams know everything now 😂
@@dominman The videos are not for the F1 teams, they are for us viewers and normal people who follow the sport. Brains, anyone?
Surprised? The race and many other journalist orgs favor RB a lot, thats why you never see them criticize them or expose their issues.
They probably don`t know what it does exactly 😂
@@mokaPCP yep. 88 percent of the journalists basically also favouring Red Bull very much.
It's a good thing that finally Merc is taking Horner's advice.
"Change your fucking car."
Horner is a Mad Lad, xD
Who cares 😂 merc has been bad for a season and half and the haters can’t get enough. Hopefully AstonHonda doesn’t embarrass the energy drink company in 2026 🤫
As Saint Lebowski said… “You’re not wrong Walter, you’re just an asshole.” Horner wasn’t wrong.
Merc lives rent free in all your feeble RB DTS fan minds huh, the average real F1 fan didnt even watch that shit 😂 grow up
Mercedes should've just increased their catering budget to cover the cost of a new chasis!
Amazing work guys. Brilliantly explained and showing the comparisons with clear labeling. Other channels should take note and copy your design 😊
That seem uncertain.
Will we get a "Why Red Bull is so good in the ground effects era?" Video?
Adrian Newey
Great work! I believe we’ve all been heavily critical on Merc and the rapid decline into this ground effect era. Glad to see some proper adjustments being made. Great vid again!
As a RB fan, I respect Mercs for ditching their zero pods setup and going the more conventional route. Some companies would be stuck on being new/cutting edge and different from others, and basically convince themselves that what they got is the best while chasing issues in a circle.
I think the fact they remained as they were in terms of finishing positions with a car concept they had no real world data on, shows they should definitely be moving on an upward trajectory from here on in.
Funny how people love to support Alonso x Aston Martin ( they are sponsored by aramco ) and watch f1 ( who get45 million dollars from aramco every year ) and diss a relatively small TH-cam channel for doing the same... Go figure
People are hypocrites in general.
yeah instead of complaining they should boycott F1 if they're so serious about it
@@whyareyoureadingmynickname8158 True
Yeah, it's fine not to be pro Aramco, they're a bad company but like, none of these people complaining will lift a finger to step up in Aramco's place but they will be happy to enjoy the content for free and then praise F1 for being such a great sport.
Its the bull****tery from aramco ads here
This is the most informative, and illustrative channel on F1 ever. No comparison.
Yep. But Aramco ruined it.
B Sport ( @BSport320 ) and Kyle Engineers are better in other ways. However, I have to agree, the way this is put together is excellent. Overall a better production.
Merc seems to be walking a thin line with all the barge board like sticky uppy bits
Video on Merc, RB, and Farrai floor comparasons?
would love to see a similar analysis of floor of the dominating redbull
Really hope these upgrades makes them more competitive.
Everyone needs to cool their jets on the whole anti-dive subject... yes it is a great way of managing ride control under braking - but it is NOT the dominant characteristic here
It can contribute to some pretty big short comings with tyre warmup (like we have seen with RB19 at Australia) which may compound issues Merc have since 2022
Additionally the suspension wishbone geometry from pull to push rod also affects the anti-dive characteristics - so it is not just a factor of add more AD = better performance...
Barely anyone is talking about the rear of the car. Suspension and diffuser - to manage to tunnel flow for rear stability
Merc have been comparably weak on the rear in terms of traction compared to RB and Ferrari since 2022, yet this has barely been covered... since it is not on the trend
It’s because their rear suspension has been pretty well designed, neither Lewis or George have complained about rear instability but rather the car being to unstable from front through to the back. The fact Aston Martin also use this rear suspension and their car has been incredibly well planted to the ground is proof of concept. AM issue is their car is a bit to draggy meaning more added downforce rather than it being generated through the floor, the Red Bull is hugely impressive because the floor and and both front and rear suspension works in perfect harmony meaning they don’t need to add downforce for the car to comply . If these upgrades work in an upward trajectory for Mercedes then next season AM and Mercedes should be a lot closer to Red Bull and make this championship a proper 3 way fight. I’m discount Ferrari simply because it doesn’t matter whether their upgrades will work, their strategy calls yesterday mean that they’ll always manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Sorry Miles, but 45 degrees of anti-dive in RB19 front upper arm is…so awesome!
And now…Max has learned to turn with it…maybe front roll center has been changed?
@@johndansby3620 if I remember correctly, the Red Bull did not have 45 degree anti dive suspension at the start of last season, Max struggled with the car, Sergio loved it, then a front suspension upgrade was introduced to a higher degree of anti dive and their race pace and Max’ happiness in the car became incredible. I’m not a Red Bull fan but you have to applaud excellent work when you see it
Waiting for the underfloor comparison video😁
So when is the comparison video coming???? Pls?
Thanks for your Videos. They are made insanely good!
christian: "change your fucking car"
toto: "ok"
With most videos about the Mercedes I miss the one important design choice that Mercedes made that made their entire concept possible in the first place and why anything that they do will be a compromise, until they get a new chassis. And although you did mention that design choice, it was only briefly and not focused on enough. It's the choice to move the side impact structures (sips) outside of their side pod and use it's housing as an extra aero surface. By going down this route, they had to move their sidepods backwards, but it allowed them to narrow them as well without the need to house the sips. And since they could only move the sidepods back so much, they had to move the sips forward to free them up, but that meant the seating position of the driver had to move forwards as well, because the sips need to be in a certain spot in relation to the seating position. Now that they have stepped away from the zero pods, but had to stick with the placement of the sips, they end up with a compromise where they still have that bulky sips outside of the bodywork, but by connecting it to the sidepods, it can't do the job anymore that was the main reason they moved it there. I'm sure they have the people to find the best compromise, but until they can move that sips, it will always be a compromise. (edit: deleted a sentence, adding that to move the sips, you need to homologate a new chassis)
I can't wait for AM to get their hands on this upgraded suspension for next year. 🤤🤤🤤
Why change the sidepods?
Dude I love the big corpo advertisements. Months into aramco sponsoring you, I still dont know wtf are they selling 😅
If you actually look at the details, the Mercedes and redbull are not that far off, while the ferrari has basically no details. The redbull is primarily different at the rear, near the gearbox where redbull has a much largely vertical expansion likely due to suspension packaging
If you look at f1 results from 2014-2019, red bull always placed just behind merc & ferrari but mostly 2nd & 3rd because Ferrari was improving on their engine, & the worst was 2014 behind william with merc engine.I think if merc didn’t have the engine advantage, how many constructors & drivers championship would they have won?
How can Mercedes run a rear wing with 90 degree right angles? I thought it had to have curved turns at the top to stop vertices
The race didn’t learn the last time
Wdym?
Oh great, the aramco partnership's back.
I love that teams like "No Micheal, no Mercedes" aren't able to through 400 millions into a car.
Can you guys do a technical analysis on the red bull floor?
Even at Monaco with its' slow corners, they will get some data on how the car works on slow corners.
1:31 so how much does a Chassis cost out of the 135 million.
The size of the gap between Mercedes and RB on a cricuit as small as Monaco and for a lap time that short, will surely be most concerning for the whole grid barring Aston Martin but especially Mercedes.
why do you keep listing ferrari as the 2nd fastest team? are you only basing that graph from quali?
I think Aston Martin is the first of what will be a long line of Midfield Teams pushing towards the front BECAUSE of the Cost Cap Restrictions.
Like was said in this video, normally Mercedes would've had a full B-Spec car out by now and potentially already have overtaken Aston Martin. Even more so for the 5th or 6th best teams like Alpine who just scored a Podium in exceptional circumstances.
The Aston Martyn Valkyrie design by newye has more detail on theirs floor panel them the w14 Mercedes f1 car lol
Redbull's car was also lifted. What are they doing different to their floors ?
The damage done by Mike Elliot is there.
Do the red bull underfloor next
It wasn't that long ago, that everyone was making fun of Aston Martin. Why? Because the car had become a duplicate of the Mercedes. The only difference was the Pink paint. As much as I don't care for Mercedes, I do believe 100% they will always have their own original car design. The RB floor reveal might bring us that side by side racing we were hoping for. I think 2, maybe 3 teams will be close to the RB. Why don't they use smaller cars at Monaco? Passing is a huge part of racing!
Did James Allison Cook?
When RACE knows more than Mercedes on how to design F1 car…
By now it has become pretty clear Mercedes has had a correlation problem, leading to being misguided by the simulation data. I would love to hear your take on how it was possible that such a big team with such a experienced team in the garage, the factory and behind the wheel. How could they end op chasing ghosts for over a year???
Aramco: powered by blood.
So when will their next major upgrade gonna come?
Cost cap
2024
I’ve got the feeling that 2024 is going to be a 3 way title fight between Red Bull, Mercedes and Aston Martin. By 2026, it might even be a four way title fight, assuming Audi hits the ground running, Red Bull doesn’t fuck up their powertrains division, Mercedes actually has a good concept and Honda doesn’t find out that they joined the 2026 regulations too late to make a good engine in time
It wont be.... RB will pull away again
@@karl8805 Nah if Merc is 0.3s behind RB, it's over for Newey & RB
@@ktcool4660 put the crack pipe down
Tbh I never thought the mercedes upgrades would have been a silver bullet. They need to understand how the car works now they have upgrades and that will take time. It's a new concept for them and they've only had 1 race where red bull and the other teams have had several.
Story will quickly change after Spanish GP
All fully cost compliant no doubt 👀. Just like they don’t work on the car during the enforced summer vacation 🙄.
What are you talking about. Mercedes didn't upgrade the floor. They didn't mention it in the FIA document either.
Aramco, previously powered by oil, now powered by How? Thanks to investments!
Hamilton at No.2 & Russell at No.3 in Barcelona race, so I think this upgrade have an impact. They easily catching up Ferrari and easily left them behind likes Russel infront 1 second from Sainz & after couple of laps that's gap become 6 second
If it wasn't for redbull jumping ahead so much, this would be one of the closest championships ever.
just ignore verstappen in the standings and its a close championship lol
@@BoilingHotCoffee no Checo is ahead by a lot.
@@ktcool4660 12 points ahead of alonso is not a lot LMAOOOO
@@BoilingHotCoffee Any body in that RB can win.
@@ktcool4660 Stroll P5.
And aramco is back. brought to you by aramco again every video
The Race can't get enough of videos about the Mercedes car.
They make a lot of videos about them indeed, a few weeks ago i was wondering off toto silenced sponsoring this channel
Then dont watch it, nobody cares about your whining?
@@jeansim3127 Who said I watched it?
You should change the name of this channel to Mercedes Fan Channel, 9 out of the last 10 videos have been Merc focused, I could see if they were still dominating but focusing on the 3rd fastest team seems weird
3 out of 10*
They were the big team till previous regs and they are making big changes to the car. It's the only thing in F1 to talk about now lol
It's simply because their in season development to find more pace and dial in their car is a story with Merc being such a fixture of F1.
While they are consistently competing in the top 10 this season they haven't been able to really challenge the fastest cars on the grid, so any development in trying to close the gap is news. Just makes sense.
@@McLoven-vm1ck just makes no sense, instead of talking about the crazy race, they instead talk about something 90%of fans are sick and tired of hearing about, we have heard nothing but how a mid pack team is improving while they never improve, these merc fanboy channels are pathetic
@@mathewhosier9739 you just proved that you don’t watch the channel and just want to crap on Mercedes…they don’t do race recaps - go to other channels for that…look at the last 10 videos and you’ll see they talk about the controversy and behind the scenes stuff and technical.
The air going into the side pods is clear for Red Bull
Rbr are with 2 years ahead second place,no chance for enybody to touch RBR.
I have not seen anyone trying to explain the anti-dive.
Great Video
So glad Edd was on this video
I know Monaco isn’t the place to judge whether the upgrades worked or not but I do think it’s funny they end up finishing more or less where they’ve finished every race this year in that 4-7 range. If not for the regular Ferrari strategy error they probably would’ve finished a couple spots down the order.
The thing is it's about time we just forget about Ferrari errors, they're not errors anymore, what they did was a normal Ferrari performance which should be accounted for every race.
Jokes aside, Mercedes genuinely are the joint 3rd best car atm at best. Outside of Australia and the Saudi race (not quali), Ferrari have been better. They just screw up while Merc pick up the pieces. Same thing last year, Merc almost beat Ferrari in the constructors when they had a car that was in a title fight for half the season. Same with AM, if Stroll wasn't there and a Bottas or Perez was, Merc should be fourth in the standings. It's a testament to both Merc drivers, they've been the best duo on the grid by a distance imo.
Aramco bad but petronas good? Jeezuz
Nah ! Aramco bad here , good on Aston Martin .
Or Shell.
I recall Toto saying that the 'no sidepod' concept was a result of looking at aircraft design. Why is this never mentioned in all the ongoing analysis?
The no-pods were hideous lol
Where are the photos and analysis of the Red Bull? The exact same thing happened when Perez crashes. Yet I don’t see his underbody photos anywhere. Please do a video with that and compare!
it didn't look much faster but if it's as fast and better on tires. it's faster. wind some pace in at Spain. I'm really interested to see if there top speed and none DRS speed is up.. that's free time
while seeming to be on the same pace, remember they had no real world data on the car before this weekend
Seems like Mercedes W14 needed lots more upgrades in order to challenge AMR and Red Bull.
I still think the driver needs to be moved a bit further back in the Merc.
That said, if Merc do find themselves moving further up the field, it could be that Alonso’s best chance of a win this year could be gone.
I think checo's contract will not be extended after 2024 they will put Young driver in car ....Probably Yuki...if he keep pushing like these. Redbull style driving is one who Squeeze performance out of the car...That's exactly yuki does now...They will test him and keep LANDO NORRIS under radar as potential world champion.
We now have RedBull floor. LET'S COPY IT
What the fuck was with that aramco ad?
Shame about the budget cap. Bcs I would have loved to see a completely different car mid season
Please make a video explaining red bull's floor
Dude really pulled off the AI voice for the Aramco spot.
Mercedes did capture one big data point. None of the new parts failed.
"Motorsport coverage that cannot be beaten" ... but no word about the Indy 500? Or any other series besides F1? 👎
Sorry to say but Mercedes does not have a financial constraint. Unlike rob bull Mercedes is respecting the financial regulations that governs the sport. I still maintain that Mercedes should breach the cost cap and pay the fine, they can afford to but they respect the rules put in place by the maFIA unlike rob bull.
That's a lot of coping and crying. Save some for the rest of the mercedes/lil bling fan club.
It was Hamiltons abilities that got them to 4th, and Russell who got them to 5th. It wasn't Mercedes' new parts. The overlap video of Alonso and Verstappens qualifying laps clearly show just how strong that Mercedes engine really still is, and AM OBVIOUSLY have a better aero platform than Mercedes.
1st
Ah budget cap that's it.
Watching videos like these reminds me how much I hate unpainted carbon fiber. They look like prototypes. F1 is much about liveries and striking colors as speed and thrill. FIA should forbid carbon fiber to be visible, if you want the car black, paint it black but this unpainted cars for weight saving purposes make no sense
You answered your own question. It makes sense because it saves weight.
Then you have no idea how heavy paint is... Paint can easily cost 2-3 KG per car where every gram counts on a F1 car.
Once up on time American airlines also elected not to have paint. They Only changed it because for them the paint didn't save much when considering having to polish the planes, plus nowadays planes are made from composites too.
O assoalho não tem ligação o fluxo da dianteira com a traseira, sem conexão, 25% esquerda, 25 % Direita e 50% central, entra uma informação e a partir do vênture é outra informação!
Começo/Meio/Fim ou seja está faltando o meio, sem interligação.
Iguala/Divide/Multiplica/Soma/Subtrai/Radia/Potencializa/Função/Fatora/Deriva/Integra/Difundi/Iguala é esse o fluxo quanto mais próximo o número da saída para com a entrada sendo assim maior estabilidade maior a potência! Na passagem da radiação tem como resultante duas raizes porém uma é falsa sendo um valor positivo e outro negativo, na substituição identifica-se qual é o verdadeiro,
As Archbishop Horner once said, “fix your fucking car”
Red Bull is probably pissed at Sergio for crashing at Monaco and needing the crane to lift the car out of there. Now everyone has seen the floor of the RB. Sergio is going to get fired just for that one crash!
He would have already been fired if that wasn't the case.
What the hell are you smoking?
Hamilton was on trac way before tgan the last cars and had only one set of tires in q3
If you want a more technical explanation of the floor, I recommend the channel, B Sport, since this video tells you basically nothing.
"These even received the approval of Gary Anderson, technical expert for the race, who sets high standards for suspension design and has been consistently disappointed by Mercedes over the past year."
Who wrote this???
Give me something for the cringe and let me die.
Good to see that teams cannot just spend their way to the tittle.
Or have unlimited testing like before.
All positive.
What are you talking about ?
If Merc only won by spending more money why were Redbull so keen to hire loads of Merc staff? Also it's not like the rules changes has changed F1 in any significant way. The cars that were at the back are still at the back. Most cars still can't overtake and we still have one team dominating with zero competition. I guess if the only thing you thought was wrong with F1 was that Max wasn't Hamilton it's great.
@@kityhawk2000 Those were PU engineers which Red Bull were always behind on, not aero engineers.
"Before the cost cap era, Mercedes could just throw money at it until it worked, swallowing up the rest of the grid and then acting like they're gods gift to racing".
Now Mercedes need to get their drivers further back in the chassis
Mercedes abandons the zero sidepod concept and immediately gets a good result.
Nice to see nothing's changed since 1960s USAC.
Kudos to anyone who gets that.
Immediately gets a good result?
They got that result because perez wasmt there lool...
Stop acting like the boys drove to that result, they got beaten by an alpine
@@karl8805 In the future, I advise reading comments in their entirety and thinking about them for at least half a second before replying. That way you're less likely to make yourself look like a fool by taking a joke comment completely seriously.
Just had to bring back aramco didn't you...
so done with them as a sponsor, I'd prefer a VPN one or something
That shoulder line under the upper air intake may have its function but is so ugly😂
This whole week was all about Mercedes. Chill down and give them time to figure out if the car works or not and how to use it, especially because it was premiered in Monaco.