If that’s what you took away from the video you must not have been paying attention. The point of the video is that people should consider all reasonable explanations instead of jumping straight to the worst possible conclusion and then stubbornly declaring that is the only reasonable explanation
@@Lorespire I have paid attention I even went back several times just to make sure I heard what you said right. The only take away I got from this video is that you don't understand what Retroactive Continuity is or what Precedent, Subtext, or Extrapolation is or you're being disingenuous.
@@Lorespire it retconned all fallouts from 1 to fallout 4 included (hard task but they pulled it off). Ignoring poisoning the well and gaslight "turn off the tribalist portion of your brain" I give you just few objective retcons you can shrug off: cold fusion (geck fallout 1), ghouls, power armor, geography, the master cracking all vaults (lucy's vault is by spitting distance from the master), china bombing first, destruction of shady sand done by lucy's dad during the plague of 77 (that you are trying to defend in the video but willingly or not, misrepresenting what is clearly stated and shown in the series), brotherhood, kid in the fridge, pre war turmoil, new vegas and surrounding completely obliterated and ruined at the end, the enclave (again), vault tec experiments and generation ships, hell they even managed to retcon how dogs work! DO you think fallout lore was so bad that they could not respect the source material beyond taking the aesthetic and game references? They took (intentionally or not, but the interview seems to point it was intentional) a huge dump on everything that was fallout lore. Or should we expect some reply of the caliber "The fall of US was not in 2077! That was just the beginning of the fall!". Todd is a notorious liar, and good part of the audience has enough intelligence to see how broken this show is. By the way nobody would give a damn if this was non canon Austin powers parody, but is not the case. At last consider the medium: Lucy was close to the observatory early in the show (check in google maps), but they had to make it longer, so the fast travel complaint has its merits. No it is not one mistake in the show, they constantly contradict even the show lore several times in the same episode. What you can excuse in a videogame with "head canon" can't be excused in bad writing. One can subjectively like the show, but also be objective: this is not a masterpiece, it is pretty bad with nice setdressing that can only progress through an infinite spam of macguffins.
Poisoning the well, strawmanning people who disagree with you, being tribalistic while accusing other people you dislike of doing the same. This video was made without a shred of self-awareness. Well done. My friends and I had fun laughing at you spurg out.
In the credits shot of one of the episodes we see a pretty large "Shady Sands Elementary School". We also see a lot of other pretty sophisticated infrastructure of the city. I dont think this is a prewar city, those buildings were constructed by the NCR and then blown up. Its important to remember that at the time the nuke would have hit, the core NCR territories were not building shanty towns out of scrap metal, they had industrial steel and concrete manufacturing.
Hmmm, an interesting thought. You really think they could have made buildings like that? I didn't count but they had to be at least 30, maybe 50 stories tall? That still leaves the issue of travel time if Shady Sands was in the right place but that is much more forgiveable... Anyways, thanks for the idea. I'm going to have to look into this possibility
@@Lorespire the NCR had been around for quite a while by the time the show takes place and they were already quite advanced by the time if fallout 2. The only major hole in this interpretation is the population number on the billboard, less than 40 000 people, modern cities (or towns if we are being real) of that sixe don't have that kinda infrastructure.
I enjoyed all the work you out into this video. I don't have a dog in this fight as I am not mattied to any specific interpretation of fallout lore. However, if you're trying to convince people who want to believe something else, the smug condescension is a sure fire way to puss them off and close their minds. I don't really care about the specifics of the lore but even I was getting tired of the constant talking down.
Yeah, I was afraid it might be too much... I even apologized for it in the description. I was just kind of upset with how obtuse so many people were being and thought of that Alec Baldwin speech from Glengarrry Glenn Ross and of an article David wong wrote about that speach on Cracked.com and how some people actually respond well to that kind of thing... Anyways, I tried it but I'm not so sure it's the style for me. Thanks for the feed back and for watching. This helps me going forward.
One of the things I personally was confused about was how Vaults 4, 31, 32, and 33 were untouched by The Master if they were very close to the Cathedral in LA. I had assumed maybe he just didn't go that far out east, but its something I think they just didn't want to talk about or missed. Too bad we didn't get to see a lot of super mutants in the show.
I don't remember him saying that. I do remember him saying the bombs were dropped when he was a kid but since they never give an age.... anyways, if I did miss it somewhere someone let me know! Maybe I need to watch a third time
Todd Howard is running damage control. In the Show's canon, Shady Sands could only have been destroyed in 2277, even ignoring the chalkboard scene. Lucy tells The Ghoul in episode 4 that they quarantined and her mother died in the Great Plague of '77, and in episode 6, she tells Maximus that she stopped believing the overhead projected light was the sun when she was 6, when her mom died. We, as the audience, know that Rose didn't die in the Great Plague because she is a ghoul, possibly feral, in the season finale. We know she still had her Pip-Boy, because that is how Muldaver gets into Vault 32 at the start of the series. What this implies is that when Rose took Lucy and Norm to Shady Sands and Hank brought them back to Vault 33 in 2277, Rose waited five years without ever trying to get back into Vault 33, and Hank waited 5 years before destroying Shady Sands for no reason. Alternatively, Rose left in 2277, and came back in secret in 2282 to an 11 year-old Lucy and 5-10 Year-old Norm to bring them to Shady Sands, a failing bed of corruption. Then, Hank brings them back, blows up Shady Sands, and nobody's Geiger counter goes off from Lucy, Norm, and Hank having been to the surface. Now, going back we can talk about the timeline, but there is a glaring inconsistency when discussing it, being the dates themselves. Every event in the timeline has an associated year with it. Shady Sands founding, Rise of the NCR and the Fall of Shady Sands all have years associated with them. The only event without an associated year is the nuke. With the way timelines are read, yes, we can assume it happened after "The Fall of Shady Sands," however in lack of a later year, we can only assume it happened in the same year. Furthermore, these are people who lived through it. They survived it. If anyone knows when the bomb dropped, it's them. They are not given any reason to forget when the bomb dropped, and even beyond that, they made a point to explicitly remember Shady Sands. There is no chance that they are unreliable for this event. Now, notice how I didn't make reference to any of the games, here. This is entirely internally consistent with the story the show is trying to tell. It is not until we start accepting outside sources, such as the game's canon and Todd Howard's explanation of events that we start to run into inconsistencies. To be fair about the serum vials, I do recall discussion of a Ghoul couple, one being a scientist, working on a cure for the feralization of Ghouls, but dying before it was completed. I do not know the source, nor the couple. Assuming it was the latest entry in the timeline, that would place it in 2286, during the events of Fallout 4, which I haven't explored exhaustively. Given that we see non-feral ghouls in this time and Amazon's show takes place ten years later, I could believe someone or organization had either continued the project or researched it independently.
maximus literally says it happened 12 years ago. big load of bollocks written there to still be wrong but hey ho you do you dude. i just watched the show and listened to what they said.
@rajimus yeah, the Chalkboard was poorly refuted, but that doesn't take into consideration the rest of the supporting evidence that Shady Sands was bombed in 2277. Short of Todd Howard's word, we are given no such indication that the date was as he said, and if it was later, see my above statements on that. There is more evidence in support of 2277 than against it within the context of the show. I think taking Occam's and Hanlon's razors into account, the most likely answer is that the writers' room made an error and it was already beyond post-production before they caught it. Otherwise, we have to make large leaps in assumptions or assign malice. The realization that we reach with the fewest assumptions, where there is no ill intent, leads us to this answer.
@@EpouvantailMasque I highly doubt there is any malice but an oversight yea I bet that's the most likely answer. It's clear on the board they had to rub something out at the end.
Can anyone answer why the Brotherhood of Steel is so weird in this? I've still got two episodes of the show to go, and I've only played FO1, FO3, and FO4, (FO2 and New Vegas only a little) but I've never seen Brotherhood knights come off as weak and sniveling before. Titus seemed so out of character for the Brotherhood. I've seen them be heroes once or twice, I've definitely seen them be villains, but I've never seen them be weak or cowardly. Even if they're a complete monster, I'd expect a Brotherhood knight to be brave and disciplined. "I'm bored; I want to shoot something" and "This is all your fault" (when its his fault) were both kind of shocking.
I've seen Brotherhood knights be mass murderers and I've seen Brotherhood knights get one-shotted, but I've never seen one go down like a whining b*tch before.
THere will be an answer given by the show before the season is over. Better to see it for yourself... Suffice to say it does make sense but it's still a bit of a hard pill to swallow.... On the Other hand the Brotherhood is supposed to be weak at this point (in the west at least) so it does make some sense that they might have to accept some members and maybe even Knights who once would have undoubtedly been deemed unworthy. I thought having the guy from "My Name is Earl" play a Brotherhood Knight was a bad choice until I saw the way that wanted that Knight to come off and then it made sense.
The factory boss states the brotherhood is in decline. It also appears the orphanage or whatever it is an Outpost . The problem some people are taking what they see in snow as answers when they are meant to ask questions
There is no excuse for the ghoul chem. It breaks the lore absolutely. It's a bad tv plot device made to explain away supernatural elements of the universe (like going feral being pretty much up to every individual ghoul depending on their mental state) The fact they don't name the chem absolutely shows they have no idea what they are doing with it. And you mean to tell me every ghoul since 2077 that hasn't gone feral has had daily/weekly access to this chem. Utterly ridiculous.
I doubt that’s the implication. The chem actually makes sense. Some ghouls can likely last centuries before going feral. Others: mere years. It all comes down to the individual losing their higher functions and individuality. There are psychological drugs to help people postpone madness. Cooper seems to have latched onto the cowboy persona from his acting days and was doing well enough financially to keep up the drug usage on a regular basis. Other ghouls, not as lucky.
This explanation only works if you care nothing for any other possible answer... there are other possibilities that are viable to anyone who care to keep an open mind
The wasteland prospects modlist (500 plus Mods). I downloaded it through Wabbajack which makes the process incredibly simple. You can check the description of the video for a link to our discord and DM me there for more info if you want
Not sure what all the cryings about. Fallouts story has always been fast a loose with its canon. Havent seen it tet though. Gonna binge the series tonight after playing Pathfinder.
Thanks, I was just tired of seeing all the hate in other videos and in forums all around and wanted to point out how ridiculous it is. Appreciate the support!
Show isnt perfect but the level of nitpicking from some "fans" even when they arent even correct or the show explained their issues and they ignored it, is embarrassing.
it definitely is not perfect but many people came into the show with an agenda to hate it and it sucks that is the case which is mostly the point of this video. SO glad you recognized that
Ive noticed a ton of "why did that happen, it makes no logical sense." It is fiction at the end of the day..... I just see a ton of little nitpicks that really arent a big deal at all. They arent going to cover and explain every single angle and i wouldn't want them to. I enjoy the season 1 and definently looking forward to the 2nd.
It’s more that it’s a better written experience overall than any of the Bethesda titles rather than it being revered. Once you get a taste of something good like that, it’s miserable to go back to Bethesda writing
I get it... Fallout New Vegas is an amazing game though.... you can always play it and just not talk about it if that is your fear. However, I think every fallout fan Should Play New Vegas. It may or may not be your Favorite fallout game depending on what you value in a fallout game but you are doing yourself a disservice if you never even try it
All this back and forth about a date in a board in a classroom .😢 If people could just enjoy a good show with beautiful and accurate looking props and locations instead of trying to find as much wrong as possible . These a holes cost me Andromeda dlc. And try to ruin Dragons Dogma2,which is a great and fun game. I hope they slip and break something important and go watch Golden Girls or flying doctors which seems perfect for them. Hands of Fallout series .
You are funny as hell. It's the caveman part of your brain that allows you to enjoy this. The show is super mid. The visuals are great. The atmosphere is great. The narrative, however, comes off as extremely amateur. You cannot explain away how awful and shallow maximus' character and story are. He fucks up at every turn yet seems to have everything fall into his lap. Gets promoted to squire by happenstance. Gets paired with the most incompetent knight I have ever seen bombasstically displayed. He straight up steals power armor and lies about it and doesnt accomplish the mission, then immediately gets told everybody sucks and he should be right-hand man. This is like high school young adult novel levels of stupid. The whole way the brotherhood is portrayed makes them out to be a bunch of ass clowns. You cant explain away how ghouls arent super powered freaks. Goggins' character is literally the luckiest ghoul on earth. He doesn't have a raspy voice. He isn't extremely frail like a typical ghoul. He somehow actually has a better body because of ghoulification because he is now bulletproof, I guess. He's a cool character, dont get me wrong, but you have to turn off your brain to enjoy the fact that ghoulification turned him into Neo from the matrix. Completely inaccurate to the lore. Ghouls are fragile, fucked up people and have never been portrayed to be super powered or have any of these crazy advantages besides being immune to radiation. Power armor is the most inconsistent thing in this show. Not only is it super stupid that it flies, but it shows me how it enhances maximus to crazy heights in one scene as he's kicking and rocks and boulders. Then, during the Goggins' fight, he gets stuck in a wooden pallet and can't move now? Give me a break. It literally is a mid show. That doesn't mean it's bad. It means it's mid. I'd still watch it for sure. I want to watch season 2 because they teased new vegas. You are absolutely out of your god damn mind if you think this narrative is deep at all in the slightest.
while i disagree overall, (i think the show was good) your take on maximus is spot on. not to mention that they had to do what every show seems to love and make you uncomfortable with forced romance between that idiot and Lucy. the very worst character that undeservedly gets everything handed to him, also gets the girl. fantastic. way to rub it in that im a lonely nerd in the worst way possible.
it felt like they were really trying to say something about the brotherhood, maybe they think the brotherhood is a white power dog whistle. seemed kinda like it
-"He isn't extremely frail like a typical ghoul." Laughing hysterically in Charon, who towers over most human characters and is anything but frail, who has been canon for 16 years. -"ghoulification turned him into Neo from the matrix", yeah the show is doing a VATS bit, did you even play the games? Bullet time has overtly been a thing since Fallout 3.
Thanks, I was kinda goin for funny with some of it. Also, I must point out that I wasn't trying to defend the show as perfect or having no issues (in fact if you watched to the end I mentioned an upcoming video that will discuss problems the show has), just that it leaves the lore intact. One more also... Remember the Fallout universe is a universe where the absurd is common place and things that could never actually happen in our reality happen all the time. I think most people agree that Maximus sucks and he does indeed have everything handed to him despite being a screw up, but you can't tell me you've never known a dipshit that got way more than they deserved in life. The world is full of people like that. And who knows, Maybe Luck is his highest SPECIAL stat... Inf Fact, It MUST be! And maybe the Brotherhood is portrayed as a bunch of Assclowns because, in the west at least, they've been so beaten down over the years that they have to accept tons of young new recruits which dilutes their culture and then they are forced to promote some of those recruits to Knights before they are truly ready. Leading to Jackasses like Titus becoming Knights.... When the Brotherhood was Powerful That would never have happened.... but now? At least That's what I took away from the TV series about the Brotherhood.... And it actually makes sense that they would be like this given their recent past of repeatedly getting their asses kick by the NCR, the loss of so many Knights, Having to go into Hiding, etc. Personally I think we are seeing The Brotherhood at their weakest moment in season 1 and we're going to see them return to at least some semblance of their former power and Glory over the remainder of the series. As for Cooper being a super ghoul.... well you're kinda right there. But just because it doesn't appear to fit existing lore doesn't mean it couldn't fit upcoming lore. Consider that Cooper's daughter is with him when the Bombs are dropped. I think most people assumed, myself included, that she must have died in the blast or shortly afterwards from radiation poisoning or some other circumstance of the apocalypse. What if cooper and his daughter escaped the blast alive and found Barb. Maybe since they had been exposed to radiation she couldn't get them in the vault with her but was able to get them into an experimental vault which she decided was better than nothing. Cooper was experimented on inside the vault and made stronger and more durable than normal ghouls. Then he escaped vowing to find his wife and daughter, but had absolutely no way of getting information about them until he finds out about Moldaver. Then he starts trying to hunt her down, not actually for the bounty, but because he hopes she might know how he can find a vault tec employee that would have the info he needs. Then when he runs into Hank its a bingo moment and he demands from hank to know where his family is.... not his wife, but family. This would explain a super ghoul. Now do I actually beleive that is what happened? No, the point is there are definitely possible explanations for coopers abilities... Here are a couple more. Absurd things like surviving being shot multiple times happens all the time in the Fallout Universe. Indeed I personally have, on many occasions in my Fallout Adventures, shot ghouls multiple times and still they were able to move around and attack me. It's possible, I've seen it and I bet you have too. Additionally, I think Cooper is actually the player Character in the Fallout TV series which would further explain his durability, incredible combat prowess and pretty much everything else about him. Next, this isn't the first time we have seen power armor fly so I see no problem with that. As for the foot getting stuck... I was a little annoyed by that as well but not every machine works perfectly all of the time. Maybe it was just a bad angle that's a weakness for the power armor, or maybe the hydraulics got a little air in the line, or perhaps someone whose in power armor for the first time and without any training had some trouble with the controls there. It was weird but not inexplicable. Also, NOTHING is ever perfect in any movie, show or game, so come on... Last, just wanna say that I never called the Narrative deep. The show is entertaining, fun and AWESOME! Even if it were bad I'd watch it just for the easter eggs from the games. But the Show isn't bad and has been true to the Lore and, in the context of the fallout Universe, it has been accurate with almost everything that has happened. Hopefully that continues to be the case in season 2. Thanks for watching and for giving me some things to think about.
@caedusX Thanks for chiming in and for showing support by watching.... I didn't get that idea from the brother hood at all. I'm going to copy and paste part of my response to whiggss so you know what I did think of the Brotherhood in the SHow. "I think most people agree that Maximus sucks and he does indeed have everything handed to him despite being a screw up, but you can't tell me you've never known a dipshit that got way more than they deserved in life. The world is full of people like that. And who knows, Maybe Luck is his highest SPECIAL stat... Inf Fact, It MUST be! And maybe the Brotherhood is portrayed as a bunch of Assclowns because, in the west at least, they've been so beaten down over the years that they have to accept tons of young new recruits which dilutes their culture and then they are forced to promote some of those recruits to Knights before they are truly ready. Leading to Jackasses like Titus becoming Knights.... When the Brotherhood was Powerful That would never have happened.... but now? At least That's what I took away from the TV series about the Brotherhood.... And it actually makes sense that they would be like this given their recent past of repeatedly getting their asses kick by the NCR, the loss of so many Knights, Having to go into Hiding, etc. Personally I think we are seeing The Brotherhood at their weakest moment in season 1 and we're going to see them return to at least some semblance of their former power and Glory over the remainder of the series.''
No offense at all but whats the point of this video? The creators of the show and Todd have stated multiple times that the show is not at all following any of the games lore or canon. People are "bothered" because they are just using themes of the fallout games and sprinkling in "member berries" to bait in more viewers. That's the actual problem. Fallout in it of itself has some very loose lore, people (including devs and writers) to this day still argue if Jet is pre or post war.
What where did Todd say that? I've seen him say the show IS cannon but doesn't change any cannon of the games. Which yes means we will get a nv cannon ending which FINALLY! As someone who says NV is my favorite fallout I'm hyped af that we are getting a possible cannon ending.
![[Yakuza 5] [Part 4 Ch 4] Shinada throws punches like fastballs... wait, what sport are we win?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ct5RW7OjwuY/mqdefault.jpg)
That's a lot of minutes and words just to say "Don't ask questions just consume product and then get excited for next product".
If that’s what you took away from the video you must not have been paying attention. The point of the video is that people should consider all reasonable explanations instead of jumping straight to the worst possible conclusion and then stubbornly declaring that is the only reasonable explanation
@@Lorespire I have paid attention I even went back several times just to make sure I heard what you said right. The only take away I got from this video is that you don't understand what Retroactive Continuity is or what Precedent, Subtext, or Extrapolation is or you're being disingenuous.
@@Lorespire it retconned all fallouts from 1 to fallout 4 included (hard task but they pulled it off). Ignoring poisoning the well and gaslight "turn off the tribalist portion of your brain" I give you just few objective retcons you can shrug off: cold fusion (geck fallout 1), ghouls, power armor, geography, the master cracking all vaults (lucy's vault is by spitting distance from the master), china bombing first, destruction of shady sand done by lucy's dad during the plague of 77 (that you are trying to defend in the video but willingly or not, misrepresenting what is clearly stated and shown in the series), brotherhood, kid in the fridge, pre war turmoil, new vegas and surrounding completely obliterated and ruined at the end, the enclave (again), vault tec experiments and generation ships, hell they even managed to retcon how dogs work! DO you think fallout lore was so bad that they could not respect the source material beyond taking the aesthetic and game references? They took (intentionally or not, but the interview seems to point it was intentional) a huge dump on everything that was fallout lore. Or should we expect some reply of the caliber "The fall of US was not in 2077! That was just the beginning of the fall!". Todd is a notorious liar, and good part of the audience has enough intelligence to see how broken this show is. By the way nobody would give a damn if this was non canon Austin powers parody, but is not the case. At last consider the medium: Lucy was close to the observatory early in the show (check in google maps), but they had to make it longer, so the fast travel complaint has its merits. No it is not one mistake in the show, they constantly contradict even the show lore several times in the same episode. What you can excuse in a videogame with "head canon" can't be excused in bad writing. One can subjectively like the show, but also be objective: this is not a masterpiece, it is pretty bad with nice setdressing that can only progress through an infinite spam of macguffins.
Poisoning the well, strawmanning people who disagree with you, being tribalistic while accusing other people you dislike of doing the same. This video was made without a shred of self-awareness. Well done. My friends and I had fun laughing at you spurg out.
Awesome! Laughing = entertainment which is the Whole point. Glad to see this video satisfied!
@@Lorespire So are you saying that you were being disingenuous or are you okay with just not
addressing any of the criticism I brought up?
In the credits shot of one of the episodes we see a pretty large "Shady Sands Elementary School". We also see a lot of other pretty sophisticated infrastructure of the city. I dont think this is a prewar city, those buildings were constructed by the NCR and then blown up.
Its important to remember that at the time the nuke would have hit, the core NCR territories were not building shanty towns out of scrap metal, they had industrial steel and concrete manufacturing.
Hmmm, an interesting thought. You really think they could have made buildings like that? I didn't count but they had to be at least 30, maybe 50 stories tall? That still leaves the issue of travel time if Shady Sands was in the right place but that is much more forgiveable... Anyways, thanks for the idea. I'm going to have to look into this possibility
@@Lorespire the NCR had been around for quite a while by the time the show takes place and they were already quite advanced by the time if fallout 2.
The only major hole in this interpretation is the population number on the billboard, less than 40 000 people, modern cities (or towns if we are being real) of that sixe don't have that kinda infrastructure.
I enjoyed all the work you out into this video.
I don't have a dog in this fight as I am not mattied to any specific interpretation of fallout lore.
However, if you're trying to convince people who want to believe something else, the smug condescension is a sure fire way to puss them off and close their minds.
I don't really care about the specifics of the lore but even I was getting tired of the constant talking down.
Yeah, I was afraid it might be too much... I even apologized for it in the description. I was just kind of upset with how obtuse so many people were being and thought of that Alec Baldwin speech from Glengarrry Glenn Ross and of an article David wong wrote about that speach on Cracked.com and how some people actually respond well to that kind of thing... Anyways, I tried it but I'm not so sure it's the style for me. Thanks for the feed back and for watching. This helps me going forward.
then get people to stop shitting on the lore innacuracies incorrectly. you talk down to morons given information that they vhose to ignore.
One of the things I personally was confused about was how Vaults 4, 31, 32, and 33 were untouched by The Master if they were very close to the Cathedral in LA. I had assumed maybe he just didn't go that far out east, but its something I think they just didn't want to talk about or missed.
Too bad we didn't get to see a lot of super mutants in the show.
Lucy's vault is literally withing shouting distance from the cathedral
Doesn't Max straight up say it happened TWELVE years ago? The series is set in 2296, so Shady Sands was more than likely nuked in 2284
He also thought the nuke at Shady Sands was the Great War.
I don't remember him saying that. I do remember him saying the bombs were dropped when he was a kid but since they never give an age.... anyways, if I did miss it somewhere someone let me know! Maybe I need to watch a third time
@@Lordoftheapes79exactly unreliable narrator 💀
he does say 12 years yes. so 2284 is most likely. people cant listen to bsic dialogue in a show before moaning.
He doesnt say that
imagine calling anybody that criticises a show "haters", you're just feeding the fire
Todd Howard is running damage control. In the Show's canon, Shady Sands could only have been destroyed in 2277, even ignoring the chalkboard scene.
Lucy tells The Ghoul in episode 4 that they quarantined and her mother died in the Great Plague of '77, and in episode 6, she tells Maximus that she stopped believing the overhead projected light was the sun when she was 6, when her mom died. We, as the audience, know that Rose didn't die in the Great Plague because she is a ghoul, possibly feral, in the season finale. We know she still had her Pip-Boy, because that is how Muldaver gets into Vault 32 at the start of the series. What this implies is that when Rose took Lucy and Norm to Shady Sands and Hank brought them back to Vault 33 in 2277, Rose waited five years without ever trying to get back into Vault 33, and Hank waited 5 years before destroying Shady Sands for no reason. Alternatively, Rose left in 2277, and came back in secret in 2282 to an 11 year-old Lucy and 5-10 Year-old Norm to bring them to Shady Sands, a failing bed of corruption. Then, Hank brings them back, blows up Shady Sands, and nobody's Geiger counter goes off from Lucy, Norm, and Hank having been to the surface.
Now, going back we can talk about the timeline, but there is a glaring inconsistency when discussing it, being the dates themselves. Every event in the timeline has an associated year with it. Shady Sands founding, Rise of the NCR and the Fall of Shady Sands all have years associated with them. The only event without an associated year is the nuke. With the way timelines are read, yes, we can assume it happened after "The Fall of Shady Sands," however in lack of a later year, we can only assume it happened in the same year. Furthermore, these are people who lived through it. They survived it. If anyone knows when the bomb dropped, it's them. They are not given any reason to forget when the bomb dropped, and even beyond that, they made a point to explicitly remember Shady Sands. There is no chance that they are unreliable for this event.
Now, notice how I didn't make reference to any of the games, here. This is entirely internally consistent with the story the show is trying to tell. It is not until we start accepting outside sources, such as the game's canon and Todd Howard's explanation of events that we start to run into inconsistencies.
To be fair about the serum vials, I do recall discussion of a Ghoul couple, one being a scientist, working on a cure for the feralization of Ghouls, but dying before it was completed. I do not know the source, nor the couple. Assuming it was the latest entry in the timeline, that would place it in 2286, during the events of Fallout 4, which I haven't explored exhaustively. Given that we see non-feral ghouls in this time and Amazon's show takes place ten years later, I could believe someone or organization had either continued the project or researched it independently.
Yes but the fact they fixed it removes the complaint as a mistake.
maximus literally says it happened 12 years ago. big load of bollocks written there to still be wrong but hey ho you do you dude. i just watched the show and listened to what they said.
@rajimus yeah, the Chalkboard was poorly refuted, but that doesn't take into consideration the rest of the supporting evidence that Shady Sands was bombed in 2277. Short of Todd Howard's word, we are given no such indication that the date was as he said, and if it was later, see my above statements on that. There is more evidence in support of 2277 than against it within the context of the show.
I think taking Occam's and Hanlon's razors into account, the most likely answer is that the writers' room made an error and it was already beyond post-production before they caught it. Otherwise, we have to make large leaps in assumptions or assign malice. The realization that we reach with the fewest assumptions, where there is no ill intent, leads us to this answer.
@@EpouvantailMasque I highly doubt there is any malice but an oversight yea I bet that's the most likely answer. It's clear on the board they had to rub something out at the end.
Can anyone answer why the Brotherhood of Steel is so weird in this? I've still got two episodes of the show to go, and I've only played FO1, FO3, and FO4, (FO2 and New Vegas only a little) but I've never seen Brotherhood knights come off as weak and sniveling before. Titus seemed so out of character for the Brotherhood. I've seen them be heroes once or twice, I've definitely seen them be villains, but I've never seen them be weak or cowardly. Even if they're a complete monster, I'd expect a Brotherhood knight to be brave and disciplined. "I'm bored; I want to shoot something" and "This is all your fault" (when its his fault) were both kind of shocking.
I've seen Brotherhood knights be mass murderers and I've seen Brotherhood knights get one-shotted, but I've never seen one go down like a whining b*tch before.
THere will be an answer given by the show before the season is over. Better to see it for yourself... Suffice to say it does make sense but it's still a bit of a hard pill to swallow....
On the Other hand the Brotherhood is supposed to be weak at this point (in the west at least) so it does make some sense that they might have to accept some members and maybe even Knights who once would have undoubtedly been deemed unworthy.
I thought having the guy from "My Name is Earl" play a Brotherhood Knight was a bad choice until I saw the way that wanted that Knight to come off and then it made sense.
@@Lorespireyeah honestly I rly didn’t like that aspect cuz I’m my mind those guys in the suits should be giga chads even against the bears or whatever
@@nickc8656I agree. for a quasi religious organisation you aren't putting power armour on a coward who seems to hate the brotherhood.
The factory boss states the brotherhood is in decline. It also appears the orphanage or whatever it is an Outpost . The problem some people are taking what they see in snow as answers when they are meant to ask questions
There is no excuse for the ghoul chem. It breaks the lore absolutely. It's a bad tv plot device made to explain away supernatural elements of the universe (like going feral being pretty much up to every individual ghoul depending on their mental state) The fact they don't name the chem absolutely shows they have no idea what they are doing with it. And you mean to tell me every ghoul since 2077 that hasn't gone feral has had daily/weekly access to this chem. Utterly ridiculous.
I doubt that’s the implication. The chem actually makes sense. Some ghouls can likely last centuries before going feral. Others: mere years. It all comes down to the individual losing their higher functions and individuality. There are psychological drugs to help people postpone madness. Cooper seems to have latched onto the cowboy persona from his acting days and was doing well enough financially to keep up the drug usage on a regular basis. Other ghouls, not as lucky.
This explanation only works if you care nothing for any other possible answer... there are other possibilities that are viable to anyone who care to keep an open mind
Another explanation for the 2277 time , is that as you pointed out it is in a CLASSROOM. Some kid simply put the wrong answer in.
True that
maximus says 12 years ago. literally in the episode before and people cant pay attention.
It's wasn't the wrong answer on the chalk board because the bomb clearly happened after the fall of shady sands.
Dear god man too many words. You could have said this in half the time.
yeah, you are right.... I was too longwinded
Or shady sands survivors rebuilt in a "safer" location.
Other survivors I should say. There were 35k people after all.
Great video !!! What mods are you using for your gameplay ?
The wasteland prospects modlist (500 plus Mods). I downloaded it through Wabbajack which makes the process incredibly simple. You can check the description of the video for a link to our discord and DM me there for more info if you want
Word of mouth simply doesn't travel well nobody has cell phones or internet in that world. So who really knows anything. Trust No one
uh, sure
Enjoyed
Awesome! Thanks
Not sure what all the cryings about. Fallouts story has always been fast a loose with its canon. Havent seen it tet though. Gonna binge the series tonight after playing Pathfinder.
A good point... so what did you think of the series now that you've seen it?
@@Lorespire Two episodes in and I gotta say I really like where it going.
Todd Howard said NV is still Canon and the timeline isn't messed up.
Yup, you are correct! can't wait to see what is Canon in season 2
Awesome video man
Thanks, I was just tired of seeing all the hate in other videos and in forums all around and wanted to point out how ridiculous it is. Appreciate the support!
Good video keep it up!
Thank you, I wasn't sure how this would be receieved but the support is awesome and Much appreciated!
Show isnt perfect but the level of nitpicking from some "fans" even when they arent even correct or the show explained their issues and they ignored it, is embarrassing.
it definitely is not perfect but many people came into the show with an agenda to hate it and it sucks that is the case which is mostly the point of this video. SO glad you recognized that
Uh oh
Hey Lord Bovyn! How ya been my friend? not sure what the uh oh is for but I hope you are well
@@Lorespire I'm well, trying to survive the heat. It's the first time I've seen you upset
Jesus Christ your intro was way too drawn out and annoying
yeah, you are right... I apologize for that. I should have taken a different approach
Ive noticed a ton of "why did that happen, it makes no logical sense." It is fiction at the end of the day.....
I just see a ton of little nitpicks that really arent a big deal at all. They arent going to cover and explain every single angle and i wouldn't want them to. I enjoy the season 1 and definently looking forward to the 2nd.
Fallout NV have become a darn bible for some people and that have put me away from trying FONV because I am Afraid I will be judge by the fanboys
It’s more that it’s a better written experience overall than any of the Bethesda titles rather than it being revered. Once you get a taste of something good like that, it’s miserable to go back to Bethesda writing
I get it... Fallout New Vegas is an amazing game though.... you can always play it and just not talk about it if that is your fear. However, I think every fallout fan Should Play New Vegas. It may or may not be your Favorite fallout game depending on what you value in a fallout game but you are doing yourself a disservice if you never even try it
@@Lorespire i have FO NV have not play it yet will try under the summer when i have more free time
All this back and forth about a date in a board in a classroom .😢 If people could just enjoy a good show with beautiful and accurate looking props and locations instead of trying to find as much wrong as possible . These a holes cost me Andromeda dlc. And try to ruin Dragons Dogma2,which is a great and fun game. I hope they slip and break something important and go watch Golden Girls or flying doctors which seems perfect for them.
Hands of Fallout series .
You are funny as hell. It's the caveman part of your brain that allows you to enjoy this. The show is super mid. The visuals are great. The atmosphere is great. The narrative, however, comes off as extremely amateur.
You cannot explain away how awful and shallow maximus' character and story are. He fucks up at every turn yet seems to have everything fall into his lap. Gets promoted to squire by happenstance. Gets paired with the most incompetent knight I have ever seen bombasstically displayed. He straight up steals power armor and lies about it and doesnt accomplish the mission, then immediately gets told everybody sucks and he should be right-hand man. This is like high school young adult novel levels of stupid. The whole way the brotherhood is portrayed makes them out to be a bunch of ass clowns.
You cant explain away how ghouls arent super powered freaks. Goggins' character is literally the luckiest ghoul on earth. He doesn't have a raspy voice. He isn't extremely frail like a typical ghoul. He somehow actually has a better body because of ghoulification because he is now bulletproof, I guess. He's a cool character, dont get me wrong, but you have to turn off your brain to enjoy the fact that ghoulification turned him into Neo from the matrix. Completely inaccurate to the lore. Ghouls are fragile, fucked up people and have never been portrayed to be super powered or have any of these crazy advantages besides being immune to radiation.
Power armor is the most inconsistent thing in this show. Not only is it super stupid that it flies, but it shows me how it enhances maximus to crazy heights in one scene as he's kicking and rocks and boulders. Then, during the Goggins' fight, he gets stuck in a wooden pallet and can't move now? Give me a break.
It literally is a mid show. That doesn't mean it's bad. It means it's mid. I'd still watch it for sure. I want to watch season 2 because they teased new vegas. You are absolutely out of your god damn mind if you think this narrative is deep at all in the slightest.
while i disagree overall, (i think the show was good) your take on maximus is spot on. not to mention that they had to do what every show seems to love and make you uncomfortable with forced romance between that idiot and Lucy. the very worst character that undeservedly gets everything handed to him, also gets the girl. fantastic. way to rub it in that im a lonely nerd in the worst way possible.
it felt like they were really trying to say something about the brotherhood, maybe they think the brotherhood is a white power dog whistle. seemed kinda like it
-"He isn't extremely frail like a typical ghoul." Laughing hysterically in Charon, who towers over most human characters and is anything but frail, who has been canon for 16 years.
-"ghoulification turned him into Neo from the matrix", yeah the show is doing a VATS bit, did you even play the games? Bullet time has overtly been a thing since Fallout 3.
Thanks, I was kinda goin for funny with some of it. Also, I must point out that I wasn't trying to defend the show as perfect or having no issues (in fact if you watched to the end I mentioned an upcoming video that will discuss problems the show has), just that it leaves the lore intact. One more also... Remember the Fallout universe is a universe where the absurd is common place and things that could never actually happen in our reality happen all the time.
I think most people agree that Maximus sucks and he does indeed have everything handed to him despite being a screw up, but you can't tell me you've never known a dipshit that got way more than they deserved in life. The world is full of people like that. And who knows, Maybe Luck is his highest SPECIAL stat... Inf Fact, It MUST be!
And maybe the Brotherhood is portrayed as a bunch of Assclowns because, in the west at least, they've been so beaten down over the years that they have to accept tons of young new recruits which dilutes their culture and then they are forced to promote some of those recruits to Knights before they are truly ready. Leading to Jackasses like Titus becoming Knights.... When the Brotherhood was Powerful That would never have happened.... but now? At least That's what I took away from the TV series about the Brotherhood.... And it actually makes sense that they would be like this given their recent past of repeatedly getting their asses kick by the NCR, the loss of so many Knights, Having to go into Hiding, etc.
Personally I think we are seeing The Brotherhood at their weakest moment in season 1 and we're going to see them return to at least some semblance of their former power and Glory over the remainder of the series.
As for Cooper being a super ghoul.... well you're kinda right there. But just because it doesn't appear to fit existing lore doesn't mean it couldn't fit upcoming lore. Consider that Cooper's daughter is with him when the Bombs are dropped. I think most people assumed, myself included, that she must have died in the blast or shortly afterwards from radiation poisoning or some other circumstance of the apocalypse.
What if cooper and his daughter escaped the blast alive and found Barb. Maybe since they had been exposed to radiation she couldn't get them in the vault with her but was able to get them into an experimental vault which she decided was better than nothing. Cooper was experimented on inside the vault and made stronger and more durable than normal ghouls. Then he escaped vowing to find his wife and daughter, but had absolutely no way of getting information about them until he finds out about Moldaver. Then he starts trying to hunt her down, not actually for the bounty, but because he hopes she might know how he can find a vault tec employee that would have the info he needs. Then when he runs into Hank its a bingo moment and he demands from hank to know where his family is.... not his wife, but family. This would explain a super ghoul.
Now do I actually beleive that is what happened? No, the point is there are definitely possible explanations for coopers abilities... Here are a couple more.
Absurd things like surviving being shot multiple times happens all the time in the Fallout Universe. Indeed I personally have, on many occasions in my Fallout Adventures, shot ghouls multiple times and still they were able to move around and attack me. It's possible, I've seen it and I bet you have too.
Additionally, I think Cooper is actually the player Character in the Fallout TV series which would further explain his durability, incredible combat prowess and pretty much everything else about him.
Next, this isn't the first time we have seen power armor fly so I see no problem with that. As for the foot getting stuck... I was a little annoyed by that as well but not every machine works perfectly all of the time. Maybe it was just a bad angle that's a weakness for the power armor, or maybe the hydraulics got a little air in the line, or perhaps someone whose in power armor for the first time and without any training had some trouble with the controls there. It was weird but not inexplicable. Also, NOTHING is ever perfect in any movie, show or game, so come on...
Last, just wanna say that I never called the Narrative deep. The show is entertaining, fun and AWESOME! Even if it were bad I'd watch it just for the easter eggs from the games. But the Show isn't bad and has been true to the Lore and, in the context of the fallout Universe, it has been accurate with almost everything that has happened. Hopefully that continues to be the case in season 2.
Thanks for watching and for giving me some things to think about.
@caedusX Thanks for chiming in and for showing support by watching.... I didn't get that idea from the brother hood at all. I'm going to copy and paste part of my response to whiggss so you know what I did think of the Brotherhood in the SHow.
"I think most people agree that Maximus sucks and he does indeed have everything handed to him despite being a screw up, but you can't tell me you've never known a dipshit that got way more than they deserved in life. The world is full of people like that. And who knows, Maybe Luck is his highest SPECIAL stat... Inf Fact, It MUST be!
And maybe the Brotherhood is portrayed as a bunch of Assclowns because, in the west at least, they've been so beaten down over the years that they have to accept tons of young new recruits which dilutes their culture and then they are forced to promote some of those recruits to Knights before they are truly ready. Leading to Jackasses like Titus becoming Knights.... When the Brotherhood was Powerful That would never have happened.... but now? At least That's what I took away from the TV series about the Brotherhood.... And it actually makes sense that they would be like this given their recent past of repeatedly getting their asses kick by the NCR, the loss of so many Knights, Having to go into Hiding, etc.
Personally I think we are seeing The Brotherhood at their weakest moment in season 1 and we're going to see them return to at least some semblance of their former power and Glory over the remainder of the series.''
No offense at all but whats the point of this video? The creators of the show and Todd have stated multiple times that the show is not at all following any of the games lore or canon. People are "bothered" because they are just using themes of the fallout games and sprinkling in "member berries" to bait in more viewers. That's the actual problem. Fallout in it of itself has some very loose lore, people (including devs and writers) to this day still argue if Jet is pre or post war.
Lol.. dont care about lore? I claim totally opposite, this series maybe one of the most lore faithful adaptation ever.
What where did Todd say that? I've seen him say the show IS cannon but doesn't change any cannon of the games. Which yes means we will get a nv cannon ending which FINALLY! As someone who says NV is my favorite fallout I'm hyped af that we are getting a possible cannon ending.