+Ryan's Range Report actually I have confirmed dope for ball ammo out to 882yds. the same kind U.S. and Nato forces use. shoots right at 10in at that distance. and also confirmed dope for the standard 175gr 308 round U.S. and Nato sniper's use. and I doubt you'll find any ammo for a 6.5mm or 6mm anything. not saying 308 is better but the round is only as good as the shooter. and I'm a good fucking shot.
@@truthseek3017 The ballistics on the .308 are almost the same as a 30-06. The .308 cost less and the cartridges aren't as heavy, when every ounce counts out in the field. .308 has no problem taking down big game.
@@wijirs1196 Forsure if I knew I was going on a moose or elk hunt. I'd like to have a lightweight 300 win mag. I don't think I'll ever hunt big game like that though. .270 is a great round. It's pretty sad seeing guys try and pick off game at 800 yards with the 6.5 creedmor these days. Missing and wounding animals. What ever happened to getting closer to the animal for a good clean kill? It has nothing to do with this video but more and more guys these days are opting for long range hunting with rounds that don't have a lot of energy at those distances.
@@mknight5159 they probably think its better to shoot from far way maybe something happened and your target animal got spook I don't know I'm not a hunter but if I was I would never shoot at long distance its too risky. And I guess its a thrill taking down an animal at that distance I wouldn't shoot that far even if its a kill shot not worth it.
.308 Cheaper, more available, and combat proven for years. If your talking about shooting for fun or competition then it doesn't matter, but I'm sure there are plenty more good reasons why the Military doesn't use 6.5.
+TheHossUSMC Yeah, basically some generals liked .30 because they used if for hunting and they have never been able to change caliber since they have too much money invested in 308... 6.5 was a common round in the militaries around the world but because NATO made 308 standard because the US said so those armies changed as well so that they could fight with NATO. I don't know about you but I don't think you should choose caliber based of what the generals hunt elk with.
@John Deflecting from what? I provided a ton of evidence in my video, yet all the fudds came out to reeeeeeeeeeee all over it and basically said stuff I even covered in the video. I'm over it, been over it.
The temporary shortage of the most common types of ammunition is due to the Covid pandemic and hoarding, not because the 6.5 calibers are significantly better. For military use most of the country's armed with the 6.5mm rifles gave them up after WW1. It was determined that they were under powered. They were fine for colonial and small scale use, but lacked the weight and power of. 30 calibers. You scored a case of 6.5 what ever because it was available. The fact that it was available demonstrats it's not superior to the 308/7.62. If so you wouldn't be able to find it either. For the sake of debate only the, 7.62X51 NATO is in common military use all over the world. It's been around for 60 years and counting. Until something that offers significantly better performance in the uses that small arms ammunition have in combat it will stay there. Both America and some of the other 1st would militaries have looked at revisiting the 6.5mm, but determined that it offers no significantly better performance than both 5.56 and 7.62 ammunition in current use. The cost of re arming the American armed forces with any new small arms and ammunition is significant and the 6.8mm round that went through field trials and did well didn't offer that much of a difference to justify that expense.
And the .338 Lapua dominates the 6.5 and the .50BMG dominates the .338! And the .408 Cheytac dominates them all. There is always something better and more expensive to shoot! The 308 is an economical round and easy to come by as well as reload. Since I do not shoot past 1000 yds, the 3608 is just fine and in my budget. For those of you who can afford bigger better more expensive ammunition and rifles: I am jealous! I would love to have .408 Cheytac! Have a great day!
+Cole Johnson All of those calibers you mention kick like a MULE. And how in the hell are you going to find enough powder to support your habit with them anyway????
+Cole Johnson .50 BMG is actually a pretty shitty precision round. Its just powerful and fast with the right load and barrel. It will not outshoot a .338 in accuarcy, but in range and stopping power. And .338 will not outshoot a .6,5 either.. But i get your point, in america its logical to use a .308. Due to cost and availbility. But here in scandinavia, you will pretty much be laughed at if you show up with a .308 to a precision shoot. Because the 6,5x55 has been around these parts for 120yrs+ and is dirt cheap and theres tons of rifles. Do not make the assumption that its just a new hype. 6,5 has been around way longer then the .308 and its just a better round for long range. Best of luck
+Joel Källberg so , again, in your area 6.xxx is more readily available. if that's the case then your using a poor stance to oppose using .308 in the U.S. a better reasoning is , ' you shoot comp. seriously , why then is a given shooter resorting to run of the mill ammo? I shoot a poop ton for relaxation and reload plenty. I'm struggling to see why folks would resort to ,"it's been around forever" stance. heck , the horse and buggy have been around forever. I don't see you going to town in one. point is , application with serious research should be the determining factor, not lame , lazy excuses. budget I would say is actually a critical benchmark in determining avaliable options. That budget sets one of the concrete rules for the shooter. the shooter can not invent more budget from thin air.
+Joel Källberg .50 BMG is a lethal and accurate round. I and a guy called Terry Dyer slammed 5 rounds into a truck door at 1,600 M in Guagetown, a base in Canada. the .50 BMG is however not practical. the 308; 7.62 X 51 is a reasonably accurate round and on a good day i can land 0.5 MOA but I won't say regularly. I owned a 6.5 Swiss 42: It wasn't anything like as accurate as my H & K 770 in 308 Both were new or never issued. 308 in North America is a little more available , the round carries more wallop and while my experience tips to the 308 that may be because of the rifle. I would be hard pressed to find a more accurate rifle than my Remington 700 though the H & K 770 is my hunting rifle. The 308 moves as near as can be to the same speed sometimes faster, carries a bigger bullet and is available anywhere in north America. It can be tipped with purpose specific bullets from 150 grain penetrators to 150 boat tail and on up to 210 grain polar bear or moose stomping hammers. I use a 168 grain on moose and am playing with loads for 155 grain match rounds. While the 6.5 is a nice round, I wouldn't drop the 308 for it. In your defense , the paramilitaries of NATO went with a 5.56 and backed it up with a 308. The 5.56 is shy on power for penetration . The 6.5 may have been the better choice for them over the 5.56. Had they done that.... My response here would be 6.5: But so would most. Fascinating article, well considered; good points. My 700 is a tack driver though.
get real...308 is EVERYWHERE. Readily available, inexpensive, very accurate and this conversation was had 2-3 times in my 70 years. For a handloader shooting comps 6.5 is fine, . across the board for 99% of shooters .308 is excellent and the international standard.
let's go a step further same caliber but .300 win mag or even better the R.U.M I have the Nemo Omen with a 22 inch barrel 1-8 twist not 1-10! since it is a tighter twist I use the 220 grain Hornady a max with a ballistics g1 of .650! It is very accurate with a .50 moa (being honest 1 flyer out of 5 shots). Now I am thinking of getting longer barrel for a little bit more velocity . The muzzle brake is ausome and what makes it even better is the state of the art bolt with the spring! This gun shoots like an ar15 enabling you to keep the target in the cross hairs! I have only shot 500 yards very easily within 1 moa (4 inches 1 flyer) and the nice thing to think about is at 1000 yards that bullet can take down a moose not that I have attempted that!
+M6A2shooter hahahaha...indirect fire INDEED. Maximum elevation on the tube, troops in defilade!! :-) .the 6MM/.243&6.5MM variants are fine rounds capable of great accuracy but they will never be accepted in place of the .308 on any big scale 'cause the .308 does so many things as well as or better than any other cartridges out there. Lots of reasons why and the gun magazine writers have made a good living over the years discussing it all ad nauseum. I remember when I "discovered" the .243 and was quite excited but alas, the .308 prevailed...Longer bbl life, less expensive, much better selection of ammo & components...110AMAX to 300M...155Palma/AMAX to 500M...168SMK to 900/1000... 175/190 SMK to 1200+M ...all from the same tube on the same day. Of course, the 175/190 SMK or equivalent WILL do it ALL quite well enough. Wow, I got on a jag there.. didn't mean to ramble.
My main considerations in choosing a round are utility and availability. I sold many of my guns that didn't meet both of those. 308. is one of the top in all around rounds.
+Steve Panos There's nothing wrong with 308. I have one. I have a lot of other guns and sell or trade very very few. I don't shoot my 2506 much, but I have it and it's pretty accurate at 500. It's not going to shoot a 5 inch group at 500 though. That's for competition shooting, and my 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 creedmoor, and 7mm mag. The BC on available bullets for 25 cal and 27 cal aren't very good. The downsized 308 cases for 7mm, 6.5mm, and 6mm, have BC above 500 and some above 600. That makes a big difference at long range.
Ive switched to shooting dental drill lasers. yeah it's a bit expensive but no bullet drop and super accurate. if you don't shoot dental laser drill you're an amateur
+Ryan's Range Report xD Its good that you can join in and even laugh at yourself a bit. Most people in here are way too uptight to be like that and just get really pissy. Idk if I agree with your video but you've earned my respect :-P
Another 6.5 freak. Oh well, to each their own. A braked 6.5 Creedmoor? Really? Why do you need to break a 6.5 Creedmoor? I'll keep my 308. It was around long before all the 6.5s, and it will be around long after the fad that the 6.5 is, is gone.
If you are talking about the Swede, that's a different round {although ballistically similar. The Swede is not a popular round, never has been here where it matters.
I have a scoped Mosin that I bought for $100. My last 440 round can of ammo cost me $88 and that included shipping. My grouping may be an inch or two larger than a fancy precision rifle using modern ammo...but my smile is equally larger.
+Bill White An inch or four, per 100 yards. It would be cool to punch that into Applied Ballistics. I'd love to see that percentage drop below half a percent.
spraynpray I've hit an 8" plate at 200 yds 3 times out of 5 shots. Not a sharpshooter by any means, but I feel good that I can reach out and wallop something hard for mere pennies.
+Bill White Sorry Bill, but 200 yards is not considered reaching out, unless you are talking about pistol rounds. Keep practicing. You're shooting @ about a 4 moa pace. AKs might be something to consider if that meets your accuracy goals.
Several things were totally missed in this video. Spcidfically with why the military uses .308. First is the barrel life. 7.62 NATO has a barrel life in excess of 5k rounds. 6.5 creed is somewhere around 2k from what I've read. With the amount of shooting that military snipers do this is huge. Second, reasonable engagement distances very rarely exceed the ability of the .308. For those days we in the military have the .338 Lapua Mag which stomps all over the 6.5. Thirdly the military isn't about punching holes in paper, the weapons serve one purpose and that is to kill. And while I'll never deny the 6.5's inherent accuracy, a 140gr pill just doesn't have the punch of a 175gr at combat distances. Again if you need to reach out and touch someone at 1600m the .338 is your baby.
Dan Koch And the 6.5 can be used at further distances, not to mention it has more energy from shorter distances as well. Anyway, the video was not about the military using it, it was how it's not a reason for someone not shooting people to choose one.
+Ryan's Range Report oh I fully agree that from a strictly competition standpoint the 6.5 makes perfect sense. I just disagree with the statement that those of us on the ground only use .308 because it is what we're given. You have to realize the logistics of changing from a round that gets the job done to something new just because it goes further doesn't make sense. Way to expensive for a very minimal benefit.
Dan, you are TOTALLY correct. When people entitle their videos to attract viewership over accuracy, I find the deception to be dishonest. The title should of said something about competition and not said to stop shooting .308. But, that wasn't done. The 7.62 / .308 is an accurate killing projectile. Doesn't do too bad in competitions either. The 7.62 / .308 is so versatile of a killing round that I will continue to bet my life on its use.
Yea maybe if I was rich.... Hot damn 6.5 costs to much to get practice with. 308 like 66% cheaper.... Let alone availability. But it is one those rounds where reloading noticeable helps, unlike 308... Hell I can't find a range with past 500yards anyway... So 6.5 does jack shit for me....
+Keith R Match ammo isn't cheaper. If I'm deer hunting or shooting a bunch, I'd shoot 223 or 308, but for bench or long range where I'll only shoot 50 rounds, then the 6.5 is a lot of fun. I shot my 6.5 Grendel today...sub-moa over and over. It's fun and it's an AR15. There is no reason to get rid of a 308 though.
Excellent, well thought out video. The military uses .308 for it's extended barrel life and terminal ballistics...not really for it's external ballistics. Sniper units are restricted to .308 for ammo continuity among NATO units.
Rofl. Don't be mad tuff boy. Try not to be so bias. Don't pretend you know more than the military, you wanna fight? Stick your head up your 6.5 bias ass and fight for air.
Good lord... So many BUTTHURT people commenting. "My .308 can shoot out to 200M and that's fine for me" good for you. He didn't make this video for the occasional "long range" shooter, he made it for newly interested competition long range shooters. He clearly lays out the data, and the facts are in the pudding. One of the largest arguments I see, are in the regards to the military still using 7.62x51...... Well, I hate to burst your bubble but an overwhelming majority of Mil snipers would much rather have something other than BOTH of these cartridges. Weird.... Ahem* Magnum* If you're looking at a new long range rig and you're serious about shooting, get the RPR chambered in 6.5cm. As of now that is the best bang for your buck, even with factoring in PREMIUM match ammo from a factory. The number 1 unknown factor in long range shooting is wind. The 6.5 defeats wind better than a .308 and has a higher BC with less drop.
+John Mood If you're reloading, all you'd need is another set of dies, projectiles, powder, primers, and any other up front costs. But reloading 6.5cm literally would be cheaper, depending on who you're buying your projectiles from. Also not sure where a 2000% price increase comes from? Do your research before you comment, I said look at the Ruger Precision Rifle. That gun chambered in 6.5cm is right around 1K street price and they have proven to be 1,300-1,400M guns. We are talking over 1,000M for right around 1K dollars.
+John Mood Yup unproven for sure..... Lol. We have these things called computers now-a-days that can run algorithms. Hence what he used in the video to display outcomes.
+John Mood you're a fucking idiot, I can guarantee you've never shot past 700 with your .308 that you "hand load" for. Look up Bryan Litz and tell him that his computer simulations are garbage... You've probably never heard of him, or have a clue what a decent BC would be. Either way it won't matter because your dumbass would never use it to its full potential anyway, so keep shooting .308 at distances you could use far cheaper calipers for, since you're all about saving those dimes apparently.
+John Mood... You keep saying the word 'simulations' as if it's witchcraft or mythology... It's just statistics. Basic statistics. And it's really difficult to dispute quantifiable data. I do enjoy watching people attempt it though. But if it helps you understand, I've literally shot tens of thousands of rounds of 6.5 and .308 and Ryan's report sums it up perfectly. What's amazing is that your arguments include no proof, no data, and no experience with anything 6.5. You're relying on feelings and intuition. Sounds like a conservative vs liberal argument. Also - give it a break with all the freezer and venison quips. Most everyone here hunts or has hunted at some capacity. No one cares.
Man you are going to open can of worms. You are right! When I was a police sniper we used the .243 Winchester. But the 308 is the darling caliber of a ton of people.
Many are unreasonably stubborn and will get butthurt about your .308 comments because it's what they've always shot for ever and it's proven blah blah blah. No one will prove you wrong with facts, however. The shooting community is weird. Without people supporting better ammo the game won't progress forward. Leave them with their inferior ammo.
+Junior Pathfinder what hes saying is if you want to hit a fly in the nuts at 600 yds on a windy day use the creedmoor. the 308 would simply just hit the fly.
+Austin Denotter Hmmmm... I just might get me a 6.5cr then. I've been wanting the ability to shoot the fleas off my dog's ass for a while now. Looks like I'll have the (Advantage) on the (Frontline) against those pesky fleas with a 6.5cr.
@@jared.p240 There is that too. Go and look at all the PRS shooters w/ hundreds of thousands of rounds of experience. They don't even shoot 6.5MM anymore it's even smaller 6mm cartridges like 6BR 6Norma 6GT etc. Pretty much zero recoil w/ a brake.
Calculate this and that and give all the stats you want. I see nothing but overthinking here. All I know is my 308 will put down whatever I shoot at. And 308 rounds are always available.
When you can't get 6.5 when the shtf you won't talk so bad about the 308. My 308's are good to 700-800 all day long and I have enough to get more. I guess it's good for your little competitions. But for realistic distances 300 to 500yds the 308 can do the job and it is available.
+mark santifort Oh man when SHTF what am I going to do? you know what's better all day long to 700-800 yards 6.5mm It's like you didn't even watch the video.
+mark santifort 223 is wonderful for 600 yards. It's what most (as in more than 51%) of shooters use for High Power competition. However, 308 is good to 450 yards or so for hunting, which is pretty shitty.
I'm a 3-gunner, not a long range shooter, but I gave this video a big thumbs up. This video isn't telling anyone to stop using 308 for hunting, casual shooting, or for ecomony's sake. But, in competitions where a bunch of small differences can add up to become a big difference, there is a benefit to shooting something tailor made for that competition. And if you're new to the competition and still learning the shooting basics, shoot what you have instead of chasing gear with your credit card.
You should add "if your shooting targets only without the need for cover" to the title of this. Otherwise the video and your info 100% clickbate. Inaccurate either way too. 1.) When you compared muzzle velocity. You compared it to Lapua not a .308 hunting round and fudged the details otherwise. You did this by switching between pre-load user-submitted stats in on example and hand load in the computer, while pointing at one number and saying another. We have a word for that. It's called lying. The smart people noticed. 2.) I also noticed you fudged over that the Swedish round is the only one that has similar ballistic efficiency at range. The zip rounds (Swedish) will penetrate, knock down and exit with a hole at 100+ yards against large game. Which have tougher skin than naked humans, not in cars, behind walls and wearing armor. 3.) The program details for the one your using, it lists that it isn't tested or accurate as a model for that, or your caliber. .308 either since anyone can fact check those same rounds with different powder grain and bullet weight to see why you aren't winning in your division. All while spending too much money on practice ammo out of a more expensive rifle. You glazed over that not only does a .308 have more knockdown, more penetration, at a further range. You can't glaze over that at 700+ meters a .308 will kill a coyote by dropping its guts and your round will spank it and bounce off. The only reason you could have said it was better, isn't logically available to you now. Because you lied. That being that the barrel lasts longer because the bullet is flatter and under less pressure. That consequently is why it doesn't do a good job at distance against large game, brush or counter attack. Though rare that a mouse would be packing. so... You should relabel your disgraceful click bait. Clickbate
+Flip Acre You glazed over that not only does a .308 have more knockdown, more penetration, at a further range. You can't glaze over that at 700+ meters a .308 will kill a coyote by dropping its guts and your round will spank it and bounce off. false. a 140gr berger bullet in a 6.5 creedmoor retains more energy at 700 yds than a 175 308 smk assuming that the 140 bullet has a muzzle velocity of 2700 and the 175 308 bullet has a muzzle velocity of 2600 (a common load for each)
Swede here growing up with 6.5x55 and I can confirm everything here. Our military used to use 6.5x55 but it later got replaced by 5.56 (.223). However, one thing you must take into consideration is the average distance you have to target, and this is rarely above 300 meters during combat - hence making the 7.62 vs 6.5 debate defunct. This is what we were trained on in the army, with the scenario we had. Not comparable to the plains of Afghanistan I guess though... For sport shooting I use 6.5 over 7 mm every day of the week but now we're talking greater distances. Shooting any round beyond its super sonic capability is never reliable since it's too much of a lottery. Stay within the capabilities of your calibre and load, or change. .308/7.62 is great if you shoot "normal" distances and doesn't hand load but if you want to increase accuracy over distance you're better off with a 6.5 round for sure. Great video and well explained!
+meals24u - 80% Polymer 308 Lowers are cheap, like 1 weeks pay check. Then you just need a dremmel and some bits. But you could also go at it with a x y vise and a drill press. So, there's a 308 in everybody's budget, but you have to be a do-it-yourselfer... Independent, not depend on the arms industry, but become an arms industry of your own efforts.
My lady is getting good at googling shit, so I obtained a B.B. gun box from some kid at bass pro so I can package my new Remington 700 in. When my wife checks the box..she will google the price of the B.B. gun instead of the Remington. I plan to do the same with my Leupold scope from amazon.
Im not a professor in this, so please correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't it so that a slow and heavy bullet will have greater stopping power than a light and fast
+MrCapKorzeniowski not really. Think about a pistol round. 220 gr .45 ACP is not nearly as effective as 140 gr hybrid out of a 6.5mm. The 6.5 is more aerodynamic and so it hit with more energy at distance. Same thing with .300 blackout. I'd much rather have a 130gr supersonic over a 220 gr subsonic round.
I shot the 6,5X55 in Greenland and liked the caliber, but back in Denmark I shoot the 308 because much of the game here in Scandinavia takes by law a heavyer round than the 6,5 can provide.
MrCapKorzeniowski I can understand and appreciate that you were following the law, but If I had my choice I'd go w/ the 6.5x55 over the .308. Lawmakers don't always know what they are talking about.
There's a reason nato uses 308. The case design makes for a more consistent/efficient burn of the powder regardless of brand. Less deviation as a whole. More cost effective. I'm with the 308. Good vid.
6.5CM shared the consistent/efficient because it uses the .308 brass (but "more consistent/efficient" compared to ______? It replaced 30-06 -- but many even shorter/fatter rounds are even better.) 6.5CM is just .308 with a slug that's easier on your knees/ankles when carrying 8 magazines, and gives less drop/drift whilst still being lethal against large humans: .308 is a LEGACY of USA's militia days...farmboys showing up with whatever their FARM had; it's designed for large GAME, not HUMAN targets; it's a HUNTING rifle, not (purpose-built to be) a COMBAT rifle. Modern science shows we'd accomplish more lethality & maneuverability, AND save money (smaller bullets=less lead) to slowly switch over to 6.5CM, but at a small initial cost, which isn't so bad if we slowly let soldiers wear-out their 762x51's before rebarrelling each battalion or two at a time -- but then the rest of NATO would need to agree LOL; I think they would though . (until WW1, Teddy Roosevelt's irregulars who went to Europe cuz America never officially joined that war: the "farmboy"/ militia era of US military having no STANDARDIZED calibers/cartridges lasted up until that recently...)
+Chuck Bodie The military doesn't use 308 because it's better, they use 30 cal because we have companies that produce it by the ton. It's a money thing. 3006 shoots the same bullet and has a longer case with more powder. Why did the military go from 3006 to 308? I guess weight....politics...etc I don't know. For a 30 cal bullet to have over 600 BC it gets to long to fit in a lot of chambers. The twist rate is to slow too. They need to make a 308 with a 1:8 twist. Most factory rifles are 1:10.
Correct, but to each his own. A 6.5 shooter can purchase/reload the same quantity if their budget allows it. So it doesn't really mean .308 automatically equals more training.
I don't know how you figure 308 is cheaper? unless you're buying ammo, you can't compete with store bought ammo, you have to reload, and reloading there is no cost difference between those two rounds
Frank Mancuso Not everyone reloads...still if I started reloading I could use .308 pills to reload .300 AAC blackout.(Along with modified .223 brass which is cheap.)
+Frank Mancuso. It depends on the type of competition. If punching small groups on paper is the goal, sure - reloading is a necessity. In practical/precision matches, shooters can be competitive with factory ammo thats shooting 1moa.
So after buying either a custom rifle or building one in your 6.5 Creedmoor, buying dies, cases, tips, working up your load, yahdee, yahdee yahdee, you come up with the same case for say any other more expensive scenario than the .308...I guess what your not seeing is the fact that yes, you are more successful putting hits down range but at what practicality? I understand why you made the video but perhaps you need to change the title. Stop shooting .308? C`mon...you might as well have titled this "Stop shooting semi-automatic rifles because bolt action rifles are inherently more accurate"...Just my $.02 cents...
+Brian Patronie most match factory 6.5 creedmoore runs 5-10$ cheaper per box than match grade 308. federal gold medal match runs 30$ a box, 6.5creed 140gr Amax runs 20$, prime ammo 130gr runs 23$ its much much cheaper. unless you run super cheap match or reman ammo or FMJ in which case LOL buy a ar-10 not a precision bolt action.
+kimber1911fan if you want good ammo at the best price stop buying factory ammo. load your own, besides saving a ton of money it gives you a lot more choices. you can also custom fit your ammo to your rifles. I have 3 rifles same make, caliber but one will not shoot boat tails while the other 2 shoot them better than any other bullet and while they all have the same twist , one rifle will not shoot lighter balls, two different loads for 3 rifles and sub moa groups are no problem. also you can load for any situation, big game, match, or varmint I wont argue caliber or make of rifle, that is all personal choice. .
+Brian Patronie i think this applies more to competition shooting. which by competing and using the best round, while it might be expensive, might mean you place and make some money
megaconda07 Understood, but he doesn't spell that out in the title. He simply states "stop shooting .308"... In fact if this is about long range accuracy I would recommend the .338 Lapua, another Scandinavian round built specifically for sniping.
308 is an all around round. It can be found almost anywhere in the world as in NATO around 7.62x51. Also, you failed horribly to mention 308 rifles can be found at any gunshop in Amurka with fair price tag on it. Colt, FNH, Ruger, Remington, Mossberg, Armalite, DPMS, and Savage are some of the companies that make 308 rifles. Can you or anyone name any household name company that makes a rifle for that odd round?
Ruger, Savage, Browning, Weatherby, Tikka, Sako, Bergara, Remington(ok fine its a 260, basically the same), Howa, DPMS... Im sure there are at least half a dozen more that I am missing, but all the above have multiple offerings at price points from $400 up through several thousand, lightweight hunting, heavyweight tactical rigs and everything in between, and that is ignoring nearly every major AR builder who offers at least one option in Creedmoor in their lineups. Oh and there is this small ammunition manufacturer, Hornady, maybe you have heard of them. They make a "handfull" of factory loaded options that compete quite nicely on price point with 308 of similar quality. Eat your heart out.
Nice video. I would like to make a few constructive criticisms. A change from 29% to 51% is not a 22% increase. It is a 22 point increase, or a 22/29 = 75.9% increase. I know this sounds like a quibble, it is not. People who know and understand stats will discount anything you say for making this type of mistake. It is also valuable in the rest of your life because it makes it easier to spot when you are being lied to or mislead. For instance, a change in unemployment rate from 15.8 to 15.6 is very small, but could be reported as a 98% improvement (you see this type of thing in advertising a lot also). The other thing is the use of standard deviation. s is arguably more important than mu when doing statistical modeling. Small changes in s will have a large impact on the model. Because of this, measuring s is critical. I flat out would not trust any value for s I got off the internet unless it was fully documented. The reason for this is because all chronographs suck (well, almost all). There are some pretty well documented examples of people demonstrating that even good chronos are wildly inaccurate, and will display grossly different results from the same bullet fired over multiple chronos. One of the principle foundations of science is repeatability. It is bad enough to assume that two models of the same chrono will give the same results, assuming that different models give the same or even similar results is very bad. Another point on this is that chrono readings say nothing about gun condition. It is very possible for instance that a gun with a slightly worn crown is actually providing more robust data, but it is passed over because it shoots less accurately. Put another way, low s correlates to high accuracy, but correlation is not causation. The model is not the system. The model should predict the system or the model is flawed. Are you missing 49% of your shots? If not, something is wrong with your model - the most likely suspect is your value for s, but the model itself may just be bad. Keep in mind that .308 came to dominate because of a wealth of empirical data. Empirical data is an actual and real representation of the system, a model is just an attempt to represent the system mathematically. Many models can only predict a specific part of the entire system. For example, the HIV model can predict relative quantities of virus, or the break down of your immune system very accurately, but it utterly fails to predict either getting infected, or when a person transitions from HIV+ to AIDS. By this same token, your model will do a fine job of predicting down range ballistics when given accurate data, but will not be able to predict anything about what happens between primer ignition and the bullet entering the lands.
The occasional plinkers, people concerned with defense, hunters, and military fetishists/"preppers" are all asshurt at a video that isn't even directed at them. This is long range competition shooting video, not a "tactical" shooting video. Just to reiterate.
Basically for an extreme long distance shooter in competition, with handloads a 6.5 is better. Im happy with my .308, I am not any of those foolish stereotypes.
Basically for an extreme long distance shooter in competition, with handloads a 6.5 is better. Im happy with my .308, I am not any of those foolish stereotypes.
While new developments in ammo certainly afford us new calibers, the world is getting to a state where cartridges like .308 Win, .223 Rem, and 9mm Luger are becoming "zombie apocalypse" rounds. That is, with an unpredictable future (even without zombies but the zombies that go into voting booths can still end up destroying civilization just in slow motion) means you have to stick to what's already laying around in bulk, and for which there are many guns about that are using these cartridges. Sad too, for there is much potential for new development now more than ever, plus the ability to "tool up" given modern production technology can really bring the cost down. Sad this is because you can see some models escaping into production but people still want that Glock/870/AR-15 trifecta because of "there will be parts laying around" or "why spend extra $$ on a new design when it might get confiscated later?"
Good video; if I was a serious competition shooter (or even casual) I'd probably consider getting a 65cm. However I'm not; I'm just a dude who likes guns, and there's a billion things I can do with a .308 without spending a fuckton of money. I mean I do spend a fuckton of money, but that's because I'm shit at budgeting so don't blame my ammo.
Bullets that can out perform a .30 caliber bullet have been around for quite some time. I stick with the tried and tested 308 because its easy to find and I can by Hornady 155's in bulk. In all fairness I don't shoot in competitions and I RARELY shoot past 600 yards. In fact when live game is concerned I cut that down to 300. If I were able to shoot comp's I would go with the .260 Remington because If I can't find 260 brass, necking down .308 can work in a pinch. I was also going to mention barrel life but I realized that with the price of ammo if you can afford to shoot out a barrel you can surely afford to have it replaced. Good shooting to you sir. Your videos are top notch.
+Richard Underwood 3015 FPS!!! Out of a gasser? That's the fastest I've ever heard of them out of a gas gun, or a 24" barrel. What powder are you using? Is it temp sensitive? I've only seen speeds close to that out of 28" barrels.
With total different weights of a bullet. And one's a hand load versus commercial. Lower the weight on a 308 and there's no telling how much better it will be. I mean this wasn't what the 147 grain or something.
mm hmm very interesting. Known about the 6.5 literally before it went on the market. Alexander Arms is 10 minutes up the George Washington Parkway from my house in Old Town Alexandria. Their warehouse is HUUUUUGE yet nobody seems to know its full of guns. Just a small old wooden non descript door to their office. Have yet to see the 6.5 in action in person yet have heard pretty tall tales about it quite a bit at the NRA range in Fairfax. Man...supernatural is what comes to mind for a word to describe the 6.5. Thanks for the upload especially with the testing equipment...
+OPTICALGIBBY with factory ammunition, they are almost identical, yes. However, 30-06 is much more versatile when you hand load especially heavier high BC bullets. It doesn't share the same .308 issues regarding the chamber throat, magazine feed issues and over pressure when trying to fit too long bullet way too deep in to the casing. Well of course one could get custom long action .308, customized magazine and 26 inch barrel to get all the juice out of the case but then again, why go that far when you just can go and grab .300 WSM, .300 Win mag, or hell, even the .30-06? Or even ditch the whole .30 cal concept and go for something more suitable for long range shooting?
How bout some reloading info. Bullet 168gr Sierra match King Imr 4064 powder .308 max load 45.9 grains 2766 ft/s. Same bullet same powder 30-06 50.8gr max load 2850ft/s. This is from hodgdonreloading.com
Actually, that comment at 1:08 about "Everyone getting together and voting on a caliber" is correct. .308 is a NATO standard, meaning NATO got together and decided that the .308 was the best overall round. It is the best value round.
Another big difference between sports shooting, hunting and military situations is that in the former two categories is that the target normally doesn't actively try to take cover behind solid objects to not be hit and also never shoots back which means you don't need the Heavy, slow cover-shattering punch of .308 .30 06 or .50 cal ammo XD
Ballistics don't lie. You are right. You don't know how many times at the range people shake their head and walk away saying, "if he'd only had a 6.5 in that M1A" Good video. I like the 1200 yard shot one too. I get the whole long range ballistic effect thing. This video will be a good statistics study on, "correlation of dislikes on you tube video related to title error."
+Toadley Browne I spent years on ranges all over the US and several in Europe. Oddly, NEVER did I hear anyone utter those words. NEVER. Maybe I was in the right place, but it was the wrong time... NOT LIKELY!
+Toadley Browne :-) if ya gotta have JUST ONE, the M1A in .308 is certainly near the top of my auto-loader list. I have friends in Germany who once took a week long comp with 6MM bolt guns but we only shot to 600. If ONLY they had a 6.5..... hahahahah....there are reasons why the .308 is the standard round .
+Toadley Browne I agree. I'm not getting rid of my 308 because it's not as accurate at 800 yards as some other caliber, but I do like my 6.5's and 7mm for beyond a 1000. I'd probably have to strap mine in a vise to shoot like these guys though.
I shot long range comps for some time.. and I never achieved more that the .308/.300WM guns could offer. The wildcats eg Ackley and Creedmore, 7MM Mag, ultramags .25-06 etc are fine and very accurate, but notice that they are more of a novelty, as they have not become the standard of the industry, and there are substantial reasons for that.
What do people dislike about this video? lol. All that's being said is the 6.5mm statistically gives you a higher likely hood of lead on target. That's it. If you want to speak to the context of ammo(availability, price, societal prolificacy, etc) that's a different video. Good work man.
It was 338, then 6.8, then 300 blk. Now it's the 6.5 Creedamoor. Nah, I'll stick with a PTR-91 and some cheap 308 steel case. You can either shoot good or you can't. It's the guys that spend 10 minutes talking about triggers and the latest caliber that scare me.
I'm for PRACTICAL Rifle Shooting. I want to be able to shoot anything I may come across, 6.5 included. Townsend Whelen could shoot .30-06 better than 90% of people can shoot anything today.
Wait lets not forget the .300 wm. that is also the Demon spawn of the .308. 200g of sexy death. Oh and the Marine Corps is using it. The 6.5 is for paper punching "I'm scared to get donkey kicked in the shoulder types", not cold blooded killers that use it in the field.
Have a couple good, accurate .308's along with a couple good, accurate 6.5 Creed-mores. Along with the guns have several trained friends/family if it comes to a SHTF situation . Because having several guns along with more then one friend and family that can shoot well is a very good thing.
.308 guys get so defensive when you start stating facts like BC , retained velocity, muzzle velocity and trajectory. Hell, 6.5mm and 7mm bullets still offer more kenetic energy in some platforms than the heavy. 308s can but no one want to hear facts. I personally would prefer a 7mm-08 over a .308 Winchester any day but for long range PRS I'll stick with a 6.5mm projectile, nice flat trajectory with high BS bullets. Just look at what the pros use. I've shoot my 6.5 Grendel at 1200 yards in matches and swept the floor with .308s. I'm not saying. 308s won't shoot just stating 6.5s and 7mm's have better ballistic characteristics for long range in a short action platform.
+Ryan Rosser I shot my Grendel today. Great cartridge. I'm glad you brought up the 7mm-08. That's my next build. The 162gr amax has a 625BC. That's hard to beat. Same bullet as 7mm mag and a lot more fun to shoot.
Yeah, the recoil on my 6.5 Grendel allows me to stay on the scope, watch my vapor trail and impact and make split second wind corrections and it's cheap and fun to shoot. What length barrel are you going with for your 7mm-08?
I don't know yet. Prob 22 or 24, I'm open to suggestions though. I have to be able to shoot the high BC bullets, so it's taking me a little while to find one. Seems like there's a lot of 1:9.5. I don't know if that fast enough though.
totally biased towards the 6.5.... u do realize that the .3 moa difference between the .308 and the 6.5 that u used in that calculation is being translated by the software as a 100% difference, right? that alone could account for the huge difference in the outcome. u cant use some websites claim that says "the average moa deviation is .6 for a .308 and then say well, "I shoot .3 with 6.5MM, so im gonna use that for MY round's calculations." thats not scientific at all... and i highly doubt u shoot .3 ALL the time, thats more likely ur personal best.
+sosocrazy1234 Glad I'm not the only one that noticed that bias. .3 MOA will always beat .6 MOA so how about this guy starting from a level playing field so we can get an honest comparison. And as you said I doubt this guy is getting .3 MOA on anything like a consistent basis, that is benchrest competition accuracy and he ain't using a benchrest comp. rifle in this vid.
+ColdWarWarriors You are not the only one, because you're one of the many that did not watch it all the way though where I Compare a .3 MOA .308 and .5 MOA 6.5 Creedmoor as well.
I love scrolling through all these comments and reading the .308 yerpdy derps that are getting so butthurt when he CLEARLY STATES THE .308 IS STILL A VIABLE ROUND for things other than competition. It's just ballistics and recoil are inferior to the 6/6.5mm in competition settings. If .308 was such a great caliber to compete with, then why are exactly ZERO top shooters using it. Yes, when the world ends, there will be way more .308 than 6.5x47, but in the meantime, having decent recoil management and a better bc is way more important in a PRS shoot (which is *ahem* THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS VIDEO) than......I don't know.....shooting God's caliber? I'm not entirely sure what the argument is for the .308.
You go heavy on documented facts and light on the opinion factor, and make a real valid argument for the higher B.C. 6.5 rounds. Of course it should be predictable that the non thinkers, and the irrational will virtually always mouth breath some non valid response. Put simply, who cares what anybody who ignores actual facts "Opines" ? I'll go with the stats and increased percentages myself...based on the facts, not my opinion. Thanks.
The military can't choose? That's not entirely true, spec ops navy seals operators have a nearly unlimited budget when it comes to firearms. And can pick and choose just about any rifle on earth, the Springfield m14 (7.62) has seen alot of use by the seals. Granted I acknowledge the content of your video is for civilian shooters who engage targets in competition at extreme ranges.
Your round may be an out performer in a normal time setting, but time is running out. I swear you people think everything is okie dokie. This Country and it's currency is very near to collapsing. Your out performer is an ammunition that will be hard to come by. You want to be using the same ammunition as the bad guys will be using against you, ie 7.62x51; 5.56; 9mm; 45 caliber; 50 caliber.
People like you always insults your Veterans. You want to enjoy and thrive off of our blood and hardships, but when we speak and give you warning of the wolves approaching down the road, you insult us. Fuck you, dude.
Ballistic co efficiency 6.5 is far better than 7.62. The reason the military use it is because of the average targets distance and stopping power. 7.62 may be going subsonic at 1100 but it still causes more damage to the human body than a 6.5 would.
+M6A2shooter trust me, fully aware. Right now the rifles available are chambered in 7.62, 300wm, 338 lm, and .50. Contrary to popular belief seals, whoever, can't just pick whatever they want. Even with the various calibers available the rifle, optics, etc are still dictated by contracts, etc.
I believe special forces just switched to 6.5 creed. And the army is testing out the 6.8. With sig leading the way with the 6.8 speed. Looks awesome. Having said that, would buy a battle rifle instead.
It's just so hard to beat a 308 on availability and things. Which you mentioned that in the video, so not knocking you at all, you were knowledgeable about the fact that it's not perfect for every situation and that most people will prefer a 308 in most cases. Just great to see someone state an opinion, realize it's an opinion, and respect others at the same time. In the future, I'll pick up a 6.5 just because of this video.
The topic certainly does stir a good old fashion debate. It really is a good video not deserving so many dislikes. Thank you for your service to our country.
Awesome video! I swapped out my 308 for 260 rem few years ago and never looked back. The comments on this vid are killing me..lol Dont know how you do it Ryan.
Barrel life? - Last I was looking the 6.5 burns up barrels, they start loosing accuracy at 1500 rounds - The .308 will go 5000 rounds before it begins to fade. - So as this video points out - Unless you are on the cutting edge of competition there may be better choices for the average person.
+jake legg I run my 6.5s pretty hard, and shoot 10 rounds strings of fire on most matches. With that I still get 2,500 before I decide to rebarrel. I've seen 4000k rounds on a 6.5x47L that was still going pretty strong.
lilbeserk PRS is expensive, but so are many sports. If you can afford to get started in the game, I figure you want the best caliber you can afford which the 6.5 Creedmoor is clearly one of those calibers. I would not even consider shooting a .308 against those calibers. That being said there IS a tactical .223 / .308 class where you compete against others shooting the same calibers. That should make it more affordable for others as well.
No disagreement from me. If you shoot competition and you reload, 6.5 is a great choice. I don't do either, so I find .308 to be the best bang for the buck. I shoot both a bolt gun and an AR in .308. I like being able to buy ammo in bulk. I buy the cheap stuff (brass case only) for plinking and it's easy to find cases of 168 and 175gr. match grade online.
I'd like to see you re-run this comparison, but instead of using constant ranges to show varying hit probabilities, instead adjust the range so you have equal hit probabilities between 6.5 and .308. A while back I ran the same sort of exercise as you did, with the above change (using admittedly much less powerful tools), and I concentrated only on misses due to wind. My result was that, whatever the 6.5x284 could do at 1000 yards, the 6.5 Creedmoor could do at 900, and the .308 could do at 800. In other words, the hit probabilities were about equal at those different ranges. So, then the question becomes, is it worth the extra hundred yards out at those ranges (assuming my comparison yielded reasonable numbers) to give up the benefits of .308 - benefits having mainly to do with availability? For competition use, I think the answer is certainly yes. For SHTF or war, I think probably not.
Why not for war? We spend BILLIONS of dollars on war. Why not have a better caliber ? For SHTF I stock up on other calibers,but nothing wrong with .308.
373 Ruger is a killer round. Much better than a .308 but that's not a choice here I know.
8 ปีที่แล้ว +2
Feels like most of the commenters miss the point of this video. This is in regards to a specific usage of a rifle. LR competitions. Go ahead and use your .308 for whatever but you will suffer in LR competitions.
+Hagge Bänke (Robobunny) Most people thumbed this down because the title, it should have read why you shouldn't be shooting .308 for competition. As I mentioned in another comment, the vast majority of people do not practice or hunt at 1000 yds. so this video is useless to them. .308 is a great round, and can be found for cheap, that most people are never going to shoot past 500 yds.
8 ปีที่แล้ว
+Tyler Padgett You are correct. I have both .308 and 6.5 rifles but for different purposes.
+Hagge Bänke (Robobunny) - That's partially because the video creator used an incomplete and misleading title as click bait... knowing damn well, that in most cases where the .308 would be used, you would never stop using that round for a 6mm. He used a very general title to describe an extraordinarily rare a specific reason for his video. If he would have titled this, "Don't Use .308 for Practical/Tactical" he would have had 15 viewers.
8 ปีที่แล้ว +1
vandgar - You are correct. Still silly of most commenters to argue against the title not the video ;)
+vandgar - Honestly when I made the video, it was for my small channel, and I had no idea it was going to have 100k views in a month. If you were a subscriber, and followed the channel the title would make perfect sense. Now when you search .308 it's the first video that comes up. I'd say 90% of the negative comments were all points I brought up during the video.
well no duh you should shoot a 6.5 creedmoor. wait. stop shooting 6.5, use .338. If youre competition shooting then go for the 6.5, if you want to be able to go out and have fun without breaking the bank, buy a 308 rifle for less than a K and youre in the game. I mean 6.5 guns are a good 5 grand mid range. if youre going to go through all that id go .338....
+Jacob Dirkson Go for both. You can get a pretty accurate rifle in 308 and 6.5 creedmoor for about $500. Ruger predator, and cabelas has a savage 10T that's $599. Either of those guns are capable of far more than my ability
The .308 round in general is just garbage... I've been saying this for years. The only advantage the .308 has even over something as common as .270 win, is that is any SHTF scenario there is going to be a lot more 308 ammo around than anything else.
What about the price between the rounds? Is this just for target shooting purposes or being able take larger animals down? One thought is that 6.5 isn't going to be readily available so if you choose it for anything other than target shooting matches then you'd better stock up pretty good.
+Dale Phillips I provided examples of this in the video. Match grade 6.5 CM is close in price to .308 match. When I was still shooting 6.5 creedmoor and using factory ammo I would buy 1000 rounds at a time. If you're buying it for hunting I feel you could buy 200 rounds and it should last you for years. That being said .308 is fine for hunting, and the video was targeted to match shooters
Stop shooting .308.... Um no I see your point about performance but it's not all about just that. .308 is a proven round and not going away anytime soon if ever. Also teaches you a lot of important skills about windage and compensating . Not everyone has to be into the 6.5 craze. Yes there's more drop and less BC in a .308 but still is a great viable option, and more readily available in cheap factory ammo than about anything else other than the Russian calibers or .223. Lots of easy load data too and economical to shoot to practice and learn long range. Not saying 6.5s aren't either but .308 definitely has its purpose and will continue too... On another note Actually also .243 and 7mm-08 compete well against 6.5s. 7mm-08 ballistically similar to ywith better barrel life too...7mms being another option in place of 6.5s or 30...6mms also have a great BC just .243 is harder on barrels and takes more to push it too keep up with the larger calibers..wind drift..great option though
+Ryan's Range Report it took me rewatching some rethinking and such to know that's what you meant more. Video title is a bit decieving in that regard haha. Your not knocking the .308 in general just that it has its disadvantages more in competition. I am not a competition shooter yet but likely will use .308 to start. I am just learning long range and shooting disiplines and I'm really enjoying what .308 has to offer. I just mentioned those other cartridges that they have great BCs too. Sorry if I came off a bit stout as I took your video the wrong way. .308 is a great round and always will be. I believe everything has a niche. It is the best performing round out there? No but economically and for what it's intended role is over time it's definitely been good in its place. In competition it's loosing ground yes. However is still a viable option. Depends on a lot of factors and the shooter. I now realize weren't knocking it as a round in general but more in regards to comp
Its bullshit, how can you compare any one thing to another if the baseline data is different???? if you went back and ran the numbers through this program using the same input data I bet the outcome would be me closer than what was stated....ie .3moa for both calibres
6.5s a cop out round. Its a laser, which is why its used in competition. Dont usually see it too much outside of that. 6.5s also tend to eat barrels more than other rounds. Your titles ridiculous. 6.5s a comp round, .308 is real world
wow Ryan, I did not believe you so I ran it though one of my program in two different weights and you are right. I am currently working on milling a couple of ar's and one has to be a 6.5 now. Thanks
Stop shooting .308 because every .308 bullet you shoot is one I can't.
Stop shooting my ammo!
+MikeM8891 HHAHHAHHAHAHAH......good move!! Maybe the price will fall as demand does....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Who IS that cat anyhow???
MikeM8891 lol..
Great comment!
😂awesome
It's actually the other way around. The more popular rounds are cheaper (all things being equal) due to economy of scale.
hickok45 called it Americas caliber that's enough for me.
+henry ford dumb ass
+Henry Ford AMEN!!!
+gibel l You called somebody a dumbass, and put a space between "dumb" and "ass" . He made a joke, you didnt get it, GeT_FuKt
+gibel l lol grama
Sean George Didn't get the joke Sean?
I shoot 308 cause I can hit a man at 1000yds and availability of ammo. shit hits the fan 308 and 5.56 will be very available.
+KTMOSLEY5591 I have a few ARs for any SHTF. I doubt you'll be engaging men at 1000 yards in SHTF with some random ammo you've found in .308
+Ryan's Range Report actually I have confirmed dope for ball ammo out to 882yds. the same kind U.S. and Nato forces use. shoots right at 10in at that distance. and also confirmed dope for the standard 175gr 308 round U.S. and Nato sniper's use. and I doubt you'll find any ammo for a 6.5mm or 6mm anything. not saying 308 is better but the round is only as good as the shooter. and I'm a good fucking shot.
+KTMOSLEY5591 +KTMOSLEY5591 You should come on out to some matches.
+Ryan's Range Report went to one at woody's. haven't had time since seeing as I work 6 days a week now.
+KTMOSLEY5591 You say very available.. But you forget... Most people shoot 308 so that ammo will be bought up and used up first.
.308 FTW! Perfect all around caliber.
Behind Enemy Lines no, 30 06 is the best all arounder because of reload versatility and big game stopping power.
@@truthseek3017 The ballistics on the .308 are almost the same as a 30-06. The .308 cost less and the cartridges aren't as heavy, when every ounce counts out in the field. .308 has no problem taking down big game.
@@wijirs1196 Forsure if I knew I was going on a moose or elk hunt. I'd like to have a lightweight 300 win mag. I don't think I'll ever hunt big game like that though. .270 is a great round. It's pretty sad seeing guys try and pick off game at 800 yards with the 6.5 creedmor these days. Missing and wounding animals. What ever happened to getting closer to the animal for a good clean kill? It has nothing to do with this video but more and more guys these days are opting for long range hunting with rounds that don't have a lot of energy at those distances.
@@mknight5159 they probably think its better to shoot from far way maybe something happened and your target animal got spook I don't know I'm not a hunter but if I was I would never shoot at long distance its too risky. And I guess its a thrill taking down an animal at that distance I wouldn't shoot that far even if its a kill shot not worth it.
Perfectly below average.
.308 Cheaper, more available, and combat proven for years. If your talking about shooting for fun or competition then it doesn't matter, but I'm sure there are plenty more good reasons why the Military doesn't use 6.5.
yea i agree hoss.
Many militaries do use 6.5 and the US is testing the .260 rem. now.
PDezi3 Well they are testing it, but even if they don't switch, it in now way makes it better.
+PDezi3 Maybe a few private contractor's lol
+TheHossUSMC Yeah, basically some generals liked .30 because they used if for hunting and they have never been able to change caliber since they have too much money invested in 308... 6.5 was a common round in the militaries around the world but because NATO made 308 standard because the US said so those armies changed as well so that they could fight with NATO.
I don't know about you but I don't think you should choose caliber based of what the generals hunt elk with.
who give a shit about the ballistics of these rounds, show the snow bunnies again!
+DAN THMAN LOL
I haven’t seen .308 on the shelf in 6 months. Just walked in and bought a case of 6.5.
Where is your god now ?
@John it's superior, just like 6.5 is to .308
@John Deflecting from what? I provided a ton of evidence in my video, yet all the fudds came out to reeeeeeeeeeee all over it and basically said stuff I even covered in the video. I'm over it, been over it.
@John Drink some whiskey and read though the comments.
The temporary shortage of the most common types of ammunition is due to the Covid pandemic and hoarding, not because the 6.5 calibers are significantly better. For military use most of the country's armed with the 6.5mm rifles gave them up after WW1. It was determined that they were under powered. They were fine for colonial and small scale use, but lacked the weight and power of. 30 calibers. You scored a case of 6.5 what ever because it was available. The fact that it was available demonstrats it's not superior to the 308/7.62. If so you wouldn't be able to find it either. For the sake of debate only the, 7.62X51 NATO is in common military use all over the world. It's been around for 60 years and counting. Until something that offers significantly better performance in the uses that small arms ammunition have in combat it will stay there. Both America and some of the other 1st would militaries have looked at revisiting the 6.5mm, but determined that it offers no significantly better performance than both 5.56 and 7.62 ammunition in current use. The cost of re arming the American armed forces with any new small arms and ammunition is significant and the 6.8mm round that went through field trials and did well didn't offer that much of a difference to justify that expense.
And the .338 Lapua dominates the 6.5 and the .50BMG dominates the .338! And the .408 Cheytac dominates them all. There is always something better and more expensive to shoot! The 308 is an economical round and easy to come by as well as reload. Since I do not shoot past 1000 yds, the 3608 is just fine and in my budget. For those of you who can afford bigger better more expensive ammunition and rifles: I am jealous! I would love to have .408 Cheytac! Have a great day!
+Cole Johnson All of those calibers you mention kick like a MULE. And how in the hell are you going to find enough powder to support your habit with them anyway????
WIN .243 I don't! You missed the point entirely! Have a nice day!
+Cole Johnson .50 BMG is actually a pretty shitty precision round. Its just powerful and fast with the right load and barrel. It will not outshoot a .338 in accuarcy, but in range and stopping power. And .338 will not outshoot a .6,5 either..
But i get your point, in america its logical to use a .308. Due to cost and availbility. But here in scandinavia, you will pretty much be laughed at if you show up with a .308 to a precision shoot. Because the 6,5x55 has been around these parts for 120yrs+ and is dirt cheap and theres tons of rifles. Do not make the assumption that its just a new hype. 6,5 has been around way longer then the .308 and its just a better round for long range. Best of luck
+Joel Källberg so , again, in your area 6.xxx is more readily available. if that's the case then your using a poor stance to oppose using .308 in the U.S. a better reasoning is , ' you shoot comp. seriously , why then is a given shooter resorting to run of the mill ammo? I shoot a poop ton for relaxation and reload plenty. I'm struggling to see why folks would resort to ,"it's been around forever" stance. heck , the horse and buggy have been around forever. I don't see you going to town in one. point is , application with serious research should be the determining factor, not lame , lazy excuses. budget I would say is actually a critical benchmark in determining avaliable options. That budget sets one of the concrete rules for the shooter. the shooter can not invent more budget from thin air.
+Joel Källberg .50 BMG is a lethal and accurate round. I and a guy called Terry Dyer slammed 5 rounds into a truck door at 1,600 M in Guagetown, a base in Canada. the .50 BMG is however not practical. the 308; 7.62 X 51 is a reasonably accurate round and on a good day i can land 0.5 MOA but I won't say regularly. I owned a 6.5 Swiss 42: It wasn't anything like as accurate as my H & K 770 in 308 Both were new or never issued. 308 in North America is a little more available , the round carries more wallop and while my experience tips to the 308 that may be because of the rifle. I would be hard pressed to find a more accurate rifle than my Remington 700 though the H & K 770 is my hunting rifle. The 308 moves as near as can be to the same speed sometimes faster, carries a bigger bullet and is available anywhere in north America. It can be tipped with purpose specific bullets from 150 grain penetrators to 150 boat tail and on up to 210 grain polar bear or moose stomping hammers. I use a 168 grain on moose and am playing with loads for 155 grain match rounds. While the 6.5 is a nice round, I wouldn't drop the 308 for it. In your defense , the paramilitaries of NATO went with a 5.56 and backed it up with a 308. The 5.56 is shy on power for penetration . The 6.5 may have been the better choice for them over the 5.56. Had they done that.... My response here would be 6.5: But so would most. Fascinating article, well considered; good points. My 700 is a tack driver though.
Good video. Bad title. Should have been "Stop using .308 FOR COMPETITION"
Had to get your attention.
Or buy a better 308.
@@jeffouellette9946 right?
get real...308 is EVERYWHERE. Readily available, inexpensive, very accurate and this conversation was had 2-3 times in my 70 years. For a handloader shooting comps 6.5 is fine, . across the board for 99% of shooters .308 is excellent and the international standard.
let's go a step further same caliber but .300 win mag or even better the R.U.M I have the Nemo Omen with a 22 inch barrel 1-8 twist not 1-10! since it is a tighter twist I use the 220 grain Hornady a max with a ballistics g1 of .650! It is very accurate with a .50 moa (being honest 1 flyer out of 5 shots). Now I am thinking of getting longer barrel for a little bit more velocity . The muzzle brake is ausome and what makes it even better is the state of the art bolt with the spring! This gun shoots like an ar15 enabling you to keep the target in the cross hairs! I have only shot 500 yards very easily within 1 moa (4 inches 1 flyer) and the nice thing to think about is at 1000 yards that bullet can take down a moose not that I have attempted that!
.300WM IS ANOTHER WIDELY AVAILABLE , STANDARDIZED ROUND. YES...
+M6A2shooter hahahaha...indirect fire INDEED. Maximum elevation on the tube, troops in defilade!! :-) .the 6MM/.243&6.5MM variants are fine rounds capable of great accuracy but they will never be accepted in place of the .308 on any big scale 'cause the .308 does so many things as well as or better than any other cartridges out there. Lots of reasons why and the gun magazine writers have made a good living over the years discussing it all ad nauseum. I remember when I "discovered" the .243 and was quite excited but alas, the .308 prevailed...Longer bbl life, less expensive, much better selection of ammo & components...110AMAX to 300M...155Palma/AMAX to 500M...168SMK to 900/1000... 175/190 SMK to 1200+M ...all from the same tube on the same day. Of course, the 175/190 SMK or equivalent WILL do it ALL quite well enough. Wow, I got on a jag there.. didn't mean to ramble.
+M6A2shooter check my other vids. I made a video of it.
+M6A2shooter Yea, there is a video of me shooting .300 blackout at 1000 yards.
My main considerations in choosing a round are utility and availability. I sold many of my guns that didn't meet both of those. 308. is one of the top in all around rounds.
+Steve Panos Its downed a lot of deer and hog for me so I'm with you on that. :)
+Steve Panos There's nothing wrong with 308. I have one. I have a lot of other guns and sell or trade very very few. I don't shoot my 2506 much, but I have it and it's pretty accurate at 500. It's not going to shoot a 5 inch group at 500 though. That's for competition shooting, and my 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 creedmoor, and 7mm mag. The BC on available bullets for 25 cal and 27 cal aren't very good. The downsized 308 cases for 7mm, 6.5mm, and 6mm, have BC above 500 and some above 600. That makes a big difference at long range.
+Steve Panos i smoked a deer at 500 yards with a 308
yeah to be honest very few shooters have enough skill to make the differences really shine. a skilled shooter will always out shoot the unskilled
Ive switched to shooting dental drill lasers. yeah it's a bit expensive but no bullet drop and super accurate. if you don't shoot dental laser drill you're an amateur
agreed, my laser prints the sickest groups you've ever seen
Evan... That's my next video. Don't be giving my secrets away.
+Ryan's Range Report xD
Its good that you can join in and even laugh at yourself a bit. Most people in here are way too uptight to be like that and just get really pissy. Idk if I agree with your video but you've earned my respect :-P
wait..............we're not reviewing lasers?
Another 6.5 freak. Oh well, to each their own. A braked 6.5 Creedmoor? Really? Why do you need to break a 6.5 Creedmoor? I'll keep my 308. It was around long before all the 6.5s, and it will be around long after the fad that the 6.5 is, is gone.
6.5x55 has been around over 100 years. What a fad.
If you are talking about the Swede, that's a different round {although ballistically similar. The Swede is not a popular round, never has been here where it matters.
I have a scoped Mosin that I bought for $100. My last 440 round can of ammo cost me $88 and that included shipping. My grouping may be an inch or two larger than a fancy precision rifle using modern ammo...but my smile is equally larger.
Nothing beats an old Mosin, and a spam can on a clear day.
+Bill White An inch or four, per 100 yards. It would be cool to punch that into Applied Ballistics. I'd love to see that percentage drop below half a percent.
spraynpray
I've hit an 8" plate at 200 yds 3 times out of 5 shots. Not a sharpshooter by any means, but I feel good that I can reach out and wallop something hard for mere pennies.
+Bill White Sorry Bill, but 200 yards is not considered reaching out, unless you are talking about pistol rounds. Keep practicing. You're shooting @ about a 4 moa pace. AKs might be something to consider if that meets your accuracy goals.
200 was a big deal to me once upon a time. Really work on slowly applying more pressure on that trigger and that'll change.
Nice vid but the title is click-bait. And yes, I clicked.
+Randall Petersen without click-bait there is only jail-bait, and sometimes both.
+Nathan Pirtle There is also fish bait but the smell drives off the jail bait so it's undesirable for some people.
Several things were totally missed in this video. Spcidfically with why the military uses .308.
First is the barrel life. 7.62 NATO has a barrel life in excess of 5k rounds. 6.5 creed is somewhere around 2k from what I've read. With the amount of shooting that military snipers do this is huge.
Second, reasonable engagement distances very rarely exceed the ability of the .308. For those days we in the military have the .338 Lapua Mag which stomps all over the 6.5.
Thirdly the military isn't about punching holes in paper, the weapons serve one purpose and that is to kill. And while I'll never deny the 6.5's inherent accuracy, a 140gr pill just doesn't have the punch of a 175gr at combat distances. Again if you need to reach out and touch someone at 1600m the .338 is your baby.
Sorry to burst your bubble 6.5 has more energy than .308 at distance.
Ryan's Range Report I believe I said at "combat distances". Let's say 800M and under which is what the M40A5 is supposed to be used for.
Dan Koch And the 6.5 can be used at further distances, not to mention it has more energy from shorter distances as well. Anyway, the video was not about the military using it, it was how it's not a reason for someone not shooting people to choose one.
+Ryan's Range Report oh I fully agree that from a strictly competition standpoint the 6.5 makes perfect sense. I just disagree with the statement that those of us on the ground only use .308 because it is what we're given. You have to realize the logistics of changing from a round that gets the job done to something new just because it goes further doesn't make sense. Way to expensive for a very minimal benefit.
Dan, you are TOTALLY correct. When people entitle their videos to attract viewership over accuracy, I find the deception to be dishonest. The title should of said something about competition and not said to stop shooting .308. But, that wasn't done. The 7.62 / .308 is an accurate killing projectile. Doesn't do too bad in competitions either. The 7.62 / .308 is so versatile of a killing round that I will continue to bet my life on its use.
With a 308 I can shoot AP, AP tracer, incendiary, incendiary Tracer, Slap, and so on. Can't do that with your 6.5
ok
308 is great. But to each their own.
Well the 308 folks didnt post a video titled "Why you should stop shooting the 308" What an obtuse title
Get wrecked
Yea maybe if I was rich.... Hot damn 6.5 costs to much to get practice with. 308 like 66% cheaper.... Let alone availability. But it is one those rounds where reloading noticeable helps, unlike 308... Hell I can't find a range with past 500yards anyway... So 6.5 does jack shit for me....
+Keith R This seems like reality. For most people your situation is the rule, not the exception.
It's 2/3rds the cost of .308 ...IF you pay a hand-loader. :-)
+Keith R Match ammo isn't cheaper. If I'm deer hunting or shooting a bunch, I'd shoot 223 or 308, but for bench or long range where I'll only shoot 50 rounds, then the 6.5 is a lot of fun. I shot my 6.5 Grendel today...sub-moa over and over. It's fun and it's an AR15. There is no reason to get rid of a 308 though.
+Keith R awesome point
Yeah my range is only 300 yards
Excellent, well thought out video. The military uses .308 for it's extended barrel life and terminal ballistics...not really for it's external ballistics. Sniper units are restricted to .308 for ammo continuity among NATO units.
My last comment was deleted darn it it. This guy's a tool and clearly a 6.5 fan boy. Should not have even put 308 in description.
Z1000 Kawasaki. Fight me
Rofl. Don't be mad tuff boy. Try not to be so bias. Don't pretend you know more than the military, you wanna fight? Stick your head up your 6.5 bias ass and fight for air.
Z1000 Kawasaki. Don’t be mad. It’s just science. Military approved 6.5 for service. Whoooooooops
I didn’t delete it.
Ryan M what is your point? Just think about all the dislikes your video has got and grow from there.
P.S.
Your still a tool.
Good lord... So many BUTTHURT people commenting. "My .308 can shoot out to 200M and that's fine for me" good for you. He didn't make this video for the occasional "long range" shooter, he made it for newly interested competition long range shooters. He clearly lays out the data, and the facts are in the pudding.
One of the largest arguments I see, are in the regards to the military still using 7.62x51...... Well, I hate to burst your bubble but an overwhelming majority of Mil snipers would much rather have something other than BOTH of these cartridges. Weird.... Ahem* Magnum*
If you're looking at a new long range rig and you're serious about shooting, get the RPR chambered in 6.5cm. As of now that is the best bang for your buck, even with factoring in PREMIUM match ammo from a factory.
The number 1 unknown factor in long range shooting is wind. The 6.5 defeats wind better than a .308 and has a higher BC with less drop.
+John Mood If you're reloading, all you'd need is another set of dies, projectiles, powder, primers, and any other up front costs. But reloading 6.5cm literally would be cheaper, depending on who you're buying your projectiles from.
Also not sure where a 2000% price increase comes from? Do your research before you comment, I said look at the Ruger Precision Rifle. That gun chambered in 6.5cm is right around 1K street price and they have proven to be 1,300-1,400M guns. We are talking over 1,000M for right around 1K dollars.
+John Mood Yup unproven for sure..... Lol. We have these things called computers now-a-days that can run algorithms. Hence what he used in the video to display outcomes.
+John Mood you're a fucking idiot, I can guarantee you've never shot past 700 with your .308 that you "hand load" for. Look up Bryan Litz and tell him that his computer simulations are garbage... You've probably never heard of him, or have a clue what a decent BC would be.
Either way it won't matter because your dumbass would never use it to its full potential anyway, so keep shooting .308 at distances you could use far cheaper calipers for, since you're all about saving those dimes apparently.
+John Mood... You keep saying the word 'simulations' as if it's witchcraft or mythology... It's just statistics. Basic statistics. And it's really difficult to dispute quantifiable data. I do enjoy watching people attempt it though. But if it helps you understand, I've literally shot tens of thousands of rounds of 6.5 and .308 and Ryan's report sums it up perfectly. What's amazing is that your arguments include no proof, no data, and no experience with anything 6.5. You're relying on feelings and intuition. Sounds like a conservative vs liberal argument. Also - give it a break with all the freezer and venison quips. Most everyone here hunts or has hunted at some capacity. No one cares.
**slow clap**
Man you are going to open can of worms. You are right! When I was a police sniper we used the .243 Winchester. But the 308 is the darling caliber of a ton of people.
Many are unreasonably stubborn and will get butthurt about your .308 comments because it's what they've always shot for ever and it's proven blah blah blah. No one will prove you wrong with facts, however. The shooting community is weird. Without people supporting better ammo the game won't progress forward. Leave them with their inferior ammo.
I don't get it 308 is a great round
+Junior Pathfinder what hes saying is if you want to hit a fly in the nuts at 600 yds on a windy day use the creedmoor. the 308 would simply just hit the fly.
+Austin Denotter Oh ok thanks!
LOL!
+Austin Denotter
Hmmmm... I just might get me a 6.5cr then.
I've been wanting the ability to shoot the fleas off my dog's ass for a while now.
Looks like I'll have the (Advantage) on the (Frontline) against those pesky fleas with a 6.5cr.
Fly nuts reminds me of an old joke. How do you get rid of the smell of mothballs? Make him change his underwear.
Pfft! I would never stop shooting my .308! It is no way "out dated" as you claim! Definitely not worth subbing to your channel!
Sorry you don’t believe in scientific evidence
@@Ryansrangereport its always about scientific evidence these days, what about good old fashioned experience and training
@@jared.p240 There is that too. Go and look at all the PRS shooters w/ hundreds of thousands of rounds of experience. They don't even shoot 6.5MM anymore it's even smaller 6mm cartridges like 6BR 6Norma 6GT etc. Pretty much zero recoil w/ a brake.
Calculate this and that and give all the stats you want. I see nothing but overthinking here. All I know is my 308 will put down whatever I shoot at. And 308 rounds are always available.
The military top snipers are swapping to 6.5 this year cause the testing shows its better in every single aspect
When you can't get 6.5 when the shtf you won't talk so bad about the 308. My 308's are good to 700-800 all day long and I have enough to get more. I guess it's good for your little competitions. But for realistic distances 300 to 500yds the 308 can do the job and it is available.
+mark santifort Oh man when SHTF what am I going to do? you know what's better all day long to 700-800 yards 6.5mm It's like you didn't even watch the video.
+mark santifort 223 is wonderful for 600 yards. It's what most (as in more than 51%) of shooters use for High Power competition. However, 308 is good to 450 yards or so for hunting, which is pretty shitty.
+spraynpray Marines kill hajis at 800 meters all day long with the 308...
Humane hunting with easy tracking and killing shitbags are two different things.
So what round should hunters use past 450 then?
I'm a 3-gunner, not a long range shooter, but I gave this video a big thumbs up. This video isn't telling anyone to stop using 308 for hunting, casual shooting, or for ecomony's sake. But, in competitions where a bunch of small differences can add up to become a big difference, there is a benefit to shooting something tailor made for that competition. And if you're new to the competition and still learning the shooting basics, shoot what you have instead of chasing gear with your credit card.
3 gun is a ton of gun, I wish I had time to be good at both. I just sold my M1 Super 90 about a month ago. Just never made it out enough to use it.
You should add "if your shooting targets only without the need for cover" to the title of this.
Otherwise the video and your info 100% clickbate. Inaccurate either way too.
1.) When you compared muzzle velocity. You compared it to Lapua not a .308 hunting round and fudged the details otherwise. You did this by switching between pre-load user-submitted stats in on example and hand load in the computer, while pointing at one number and saying another. We have a word for that. It's called lying.
The smart people noticed.
2.) I also noticed you fudged over that the Swedish round is the only one that has similar ballistic efficiency at range. The zip rounds (Swedish) will penetrate, knock down and exit with a hole at 100+ yards against large game. Which have tougher skin than naked humans, not in cars, behind walls and wearing armor.
3.) The program details for the one your using, it lists that it isn't tested or accurate as a model for that, or your caliber. .308 either since anyone can fact check those same rounds with different powder grain and bullet weight to see why you aren't winning in your division.
All while spending too much money on practice ammo out of a more expensive rifle.
You glazed over that not only does a .308 have more knockdown, more penetration, at a further range. You can't glaze over that at 700+ meters a .308 will kill a coyote by dropping its guts and your round will spank it and bounce off.
The only reason you could have said it was better, isn't logically available to you now. Because you lied. That being that the barrel lasts longer because the bullet is flatter and under less pressure.
That consequently is why it doesn't do a good job at distance against large game, brush or counter attack. Though rare that a mouse would be packing.
so...
You should relabel your disgraceful click bait. Clickbate
+Flip Acre
You glazed over that not only does a .308 have more knockdown, more penetration, at a further range. You can't glaze over that at 700+ meters a .308 will kill a coyote by dropping its guts and your round will spank it and bounce off.
false. a 140gr berger bullet in a 6.5 creedmoor retains more energy at 700 yds than a 175 308 smk assuming that the 140 bullet has a muzzle velocity of 2700 and the 175 308 bullet has a muzzle velocity of 2600 (a common load for each)
Swede here growing up with 6.5x55 and I can confirm everything here. Our military used to use 6.5x55 but it later got replaced by 5.56 (.223). However, one thing you must take into consideration is the average distance you have to target, and this is rarely above 300 meters during combat - hence making the 7.62 vs 6.5 debate defunct. This is what we were trained on in the army, with the scenario we had. Not comparable to the plains of Afghanistan I guess though...
For sport shooting I use 6.5 over 7 mm every day of the week but now we're talking greater distances.
Shooting any round beyond its super sonic capability is never reliable since it's too much of a lottery. Stay within the capabilities of your calibre and load, or change. .308/7.62 is great if you shoot "normal" distances and doesn't hand load but if you want to increase accuracy over distance you're better off with a 6.5 round for sure.
Great video and well explained!
@jens andree, 5.56 and .223 are not the same.
300 Blackout to a mile I have to see that bull shit 300 blackout is a joke as far as I'm concerned
147 308 owners now have to convince a pissed wife that they need a new rifle, new dies, and while we're at it new optics as well..
+meals24u - 80% Polymer 308 Lowers are cheap, like 1 weeks pay check. Then you just need a dremmel and some bits. But you could also go at it with a x y vise and a drill press. So, there's a 308 in everybody's budget, but you have to be a do-it-yourselfer... Independent, not depend on the arms industry, but become an arms industry of your own efforts.
That's not really a problem for most of us. We'll use any excuse we can for new toys :D
My lady is getting good at googling shit, so I obtained a B.B. gun box from some kid at bass pro so I can package my new Remington 700 in. When my wife checks the box..she will google the price of the B.B. gun instead of the Remington. I plan to do the same with my Leupold scope from amazon.
mek672 brilliant sir.
- the 6,5mm is to light to lay down a grizzly. A 308 will do the job :)
I'd want a lot more energy than a .308 for a grizzly.
Im not a professor in this, so please correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't it so that a slow and heavy bullet will have greater stopping power than a light and fast
+MrCapKorzeniowski not really. Think about a pistol round. 220 gr .45 ACP is not nearly as effective as 140 gr hybrid out of a 6.5mm. The 6.5 is more aerodynamic and so it hit with more energy at distance. Same thing with .300 blackout. I'd much rather have a 130gr supersonic over a 220 gr subsonic round.
I shot the 6,5X55 in Greenland and liked the caliber, but back in Denmark I shoot the 308 because much of the game here in Scandinavia takes by law a heavyer round than the 6,5 can provide.
MrCapKorzeniowski I can understand and appreciate that you were following the law, but If I had my choice I'd go w/ the 6.5x55 over the .308. Lawmakers don't always know what they are talking about.
There's a reason nato uses 308. The case design makes for a more consistent/efficient burn of the powder regardless of brand. Less deviation as a whole. More cost effective. I'm with the 308. Good vid.
6.5CM shared the consistent/efficient because it uses the .308 brass (but "more consistent/efficient" compared to ______? It replaced 30-06 -- but many even shorter/fatter rounds are even better.) 6.5CM is just .308 with a slug that's easier on your knees/ankles when carrying 8 magazines, and gives less drop/drift whilst still being lethal against large humans: .308 is a LEGACY of USA's militia days...farmboys showing up with whatever their FARM had; it's designed for large GAME, not HUMAN targets; it's a HUNTING rifle, not (purpose-built to be) a COMBAT rifle. Modern science shows we'd accomplish more lethality & maneuverability, AND save money (smaller bullets=less lead) to slowly switch over to 6.5CM, but at a small initial cost, which isn't so bad if we slowly let soldiers wear-out their 762x51's before rebarrelling each battalion or two at a time -- but then the rest of NATO would need to agree LOL; I think they would though
. (until WW1, Teddy Roosevelt's irregulars who went to Europe cuz America never officially joined that war: the "farmboy"/ militia era of US military having no STANDARDIZED calibers/cartridges lasted up until that recently...)
+Chuck Bodie The military doesn't use 308 because it's better, they use 30 cal because we have companies that produce it by the ton. It's a money thing. 3006 shoots the same bullet and has a longer case with more powder. Why did the military go from 3006 to 308? I guess weight....politics...etc I don't know. For a 30 cal bullet to have over 600 BC it gets to long to fit in a lot of chambers. The twist rate is to slow too. They need to make a 308 with a 1:8 twist. Most factory rifles are 1:10.
+Ahmad Amin Going from a 308 to 6.5 isn't just for lower recoil. It has a much higher BC and that means greater accuracy at long range.
Chuck Bodie nope, it was a cut cost decision.
.308 is just cheaper than other high power options and quantity means more training....
Correct, but to each his own. A 6.5 shooter can purchase/reload the same quantity if their budget allows it. So it doesn't really mean .308 automatically equals more training.
C Note Fair enough.
I don't know how you figure 308 is cheaper? unless you're buying ammo, you can't compete with store bought ammo, you have to reload, and reloading there is no cost difference between those two rounds
Frank Mancuso Not everyone reloads...still if I started reloading I could use .308 pills to reload .300 AAC blackout.(Along with modified .223 brass which is cheap.)
+Frank Mancuso. It depends on the type of competition. If punching small groups on paper is the goal, sure - reloading is a necessity. In practical/precision matches, shooters can be competitive with factory ammo thats shooting 1moa.
So after buying either a custom rifle or building one in your 6.5 Creedmoor, buying dies, cases, tips, working up your load, yahdee, yahdee yahdee, you come up with the same case for say any other more expensive scenario than the .308...I guess what your not seeing is the fact that yes, you are more successful putting hits down range but at what practicality? I understand why you made the video but perhaps you need to change the title. Stop shooting .308? C`mon...you might as well have titled this "Stop shooting semi-automatic rifles because bolt action rifles are inherently more accurate"...Just my $.02 cents...
+Brian Patronie most match factory 6.5 creedmoore runs 5-10$ cheaper per box than match grade 308. federal gold medal match runs 30$ a box, 6.5creed 140gr Amax runs 20$, prime ammo 130gr runs 23$ its much much cheaper. unless you run super cheap match or reman ammo or FMJ in which case LOL buy a ar-10 not a precision bolt action.
+kimber1911fan if you want good ammo at the best price stop buying factory ammo. load your own, besides saving a ton of money it gives you a lot more choices. you can also custom fit your ammo to your rifles. I have 3 rifles same make, caliber but one will not shoot boat tails while the other 2 shoot them better than any other bullet and while they all have the same twist , one rifle will not shoot lighter balls, two different loads for 3 rifles and sub moa groups are no problem. also you can load for any situation, big game, match, or varmint I wont argue caliber or make of rifle, that is all personal choice. .
+one depends, if your rifle likes factory and it's 23$ or less per box I would just buy and save my time if it was me.
+Brian Patronie i think this applies more to competition shooting. which by competing and using the best round, while it might be expensive, might mean you place and make some money
megaconda07
Understood, but he doesn't spell that out in the title. He simply states "stop shooting .308"...
In fact if this is about long range accuracy I would recommend the .338 Lapua, another Scandinavian round built specifically for sniping.
Once I graduate college I'm gonna get into a 6.5, but for now I'm too heavily invested in 308
Don't ever stop shooting any gun or any caliber. Ever. My 2 cents.
308 is an all around round. It can be found almost anywhere in the world as in NATO around 7.62x51. Also, you failed horribly to mention 308 rifles can be found at any gunshop in Amurka with fair price tag on it. Colt, FNH, Ruger, Remington, Mossberg, Armalite, DPMS, and Savage are some of the companies that make 308 rifles. Can you or anyone name any household name company that makes a rifle for that odd round?
Ruger, Savage, Browning, Weatherby, Tikka, Sako, Bergara, Remington(ok fine its a 260, basically the same), Howa, DPMS... Im sure there are at least half a dozen more that I am missing, but all the above have multiple offerings at price points from $400 up through several thousand, lightweight hunting, heavyweight tactical rigs and everything in between, and that is ignoring nearly every major AR builder who offers at least one option in Creedmoor in their lineups.
Oh and there is this small ammunition manufacturer, Hornady, maybe you have heard of them. They make a "handfull" of factory loaded options that compete quite nicely on price point with 308 of similar quality.
Eat your heart out.
Hmm let me think.
Ruger
Savage
Desert Tech
PWS
Barrett
KIMBER
Browning
Weatherby
Howa
DPMS
Nice video.
I would like to make a few constructive criticisms.
A change from 29% to 51% is not a 22% increase. It is a 22 point increase, or a 22/29 = 75.9% increase. I know this sounds like a quibble, it is not. People who know and understand stats will discount anything you say for making this type of mistake. It is also valuable in the rest of your life because it makes it easier to spot when you are being lied to or mislead. For instance, a change in unemployment rate from 15.8 to 15.6 is very small, but could be reported as a 98% improvement (you see this type of thing in advertising a lot also).
The other thing is the use of standard deviation. s is arguably more important than mu when doing statistical modeling. Small changes in s will have a large impact on the model. Because of this, measuring s is critical. I flat out would not trust any value for s I got off the internet unless it was fully documented. The reason for this is because all chronographs suck (well, almost all). There are some pretty well documented examples of people demonstrating that even good chronos are wildly inaccurate, and will display grossly different results from the same bullet fired over multiple chronos.
One of the principle foundations of science is repeatability. It is bad enough to assume that two models of the same chrono will give the same results, assuming that different models give the same or even similar results is very bad.
Another point on this is that chrono readings say nothing about gun condition. It is very possible for instance that a gun with a slightly worn crown is actually providing more robust data, but it is passed over because it shoots less accurately.
Put another way, low s correlates to high accuracy, but correlation is not causation.
The model is not the system. The model should predict the system or the model is flawed. Are you missing 49% of your shots? If not, something is wrong with your model - the most likely suspect is your value for s, but the model itself may just be bad.
Keep in mind that .308 came to dominate because of a wealth of empirical data. Empirical data is an actual and real representation of the system, a model is just an attempt to represent the system mathematically. Many models can only predict a specific part of the entire system. For example, the HIV model can predict relative quantities of virus, or the break down of your immune system very accurately, but it utterly fails to predict either getting infected, or when a person transitions from HIV+ to AIDS. By this same token, your model will do a fine job of predicting down range ballistics when given accurate data, but will not be able to predict anything about what happens between primer ignition and the bullet entering the lands.
The occasional plinkers, people concerned with defense, hunters, and military fetishists/"preppers" are all asshurt at a video that isn't even directed at them. This is long range competition shooting video, not a "tactical" shooting video. Just to reiterate.
Basically for an extreme long distance shooter in competition, with handloads a 6.5 is better. Im happy with my .308, I am not any of those foolish stereotypes.
Basically for an extreme long distance shooter in competition, with handloads a 6.5 is better. Im happy with my .308, I am not any of those foolish stereotypes.
While new developments in ammo certainly afford us new calibers, the world is getting to a state where cartridges like .308 Win, .223 Rem, and 9mm Luger are becoming "zombie apocalypse" rounds.
That is, with an unpredictable future (even without zombies but the zombies that go into voting booths can still end up destroying civilization just in slow motion) means you have to stick to what's already laying around in bulk, and for which there are many guns about that are using these cartridges.
Sad too, for there is much potential for new development now more than ever, plus the ability to "tool up" given modern production technology can really bring the cost down.
Sad this is because you can see some models escaping into production but people still want that Glock/870/AR-15 trifecta because of "there will be parts laying around" or "why spend extra $$ on a new design when it might get confiscated later?"
well there you go the facts speak for themselves really. I love my 6.5x55 low recoil put plenty of killing power
Good video; if I was a serious competition shooter (or even casual) I'd probably consider getting a 65cm. However I'm not; I'm just a dude who likes guns, and there's a billion things I can do with a .308 without spending a fuckton of money. I mean I do spend a fuckton of money, but that's because I'm shit at budgeting so don't blame my ammo.
Bullets that can out perform a .30 caliber bullet have been around for quite some time. I stick with the tried and tested 308 because its easy to find and I can by Hornady 155's in bulk.
In all fairness I don't shoot in competitions and I RARELY shoot past 600 yards. In fact when live game is concerned I cut that down to 300.
If I were able to shoot comp's I would go with the .260 Remington because If I can't find 260 brass, necking down .308 can work in a pinch.
I was also going to mention barrel life but I realized that with the price of ammo if you can afford to shoot out a barrel you can surely afford to have it replaced.
Good shooting to you sir. Your videos are top notch.
+Richard Underwood 3015 FPS!!! Out of a gasser? That's the fastest I've ever heard of them out of a gas gun, or a 24" barrel. What powder are you using? Is it temp sensitive? I've only seen speeds close to that out of 28" barrels.
Your video was clear and concise and it had the data to back up your statement. Awesome job. I found it really informative
Thank you
+bowhunter 85 I agree. Not very widely used in comps. I'd like a 7 saum for hunting.
With total different weights of a bullet. And one's a hand load versus commercial. Lower the weight on a 308 and there's no telling how much better it will be. I mean this wasn't what the 147 grain or something.
mm hmm very interesting. Known about the 6.5 literally before it went on the market. Alexander Arms is 10 minutes up the George Washington Parkway from my house in Old Town Alexandria. Their warehouse is HUUUUUGE yet nobody seems to know its full of guns. Just a small old wooden non descript door to their office. Have yet to see the 6.5 in action in person yet have heard pretty tall tales about it quite a bit at the NRA range in Fairfax. Man...supernatural is what comes to mind for a word to describe the 6.5. Thanks for the upload especially with the testing equipment...
.308 the most overrated calibre in the world. Can't even compare to 30-06. Also, I'd rather have a 25-06 than a 7mm-08.
+NOTABOOS what are u talking about the .308 is almost exactly like the 30-06.7mm rem is a different story.
+NOTABOOS Yet in NRA 30cal rifle matches 308 dominated from year to another.
+OPTICALGIBBY with factory ammunition, they are almost identical, yes. However, 30-06 is much more versatile when you hand load especially heavier high BC bullets. It doesn't share the same .308 issues regarding the chamber throat, magazine feed issues and over pressure when trying to fit too long bullet way too deep in to the casing. Well of course one could get custom long action .308, customized magazine and 26 inch barrel to get all the juice out of the case but then again, why go that far when you just can go and grab .300 WSM, .300 Win mag, or hell, even the .30-06? Or even ditch the whole .30 cal concept and go for something more suitable for long range shooting?
How bout some reloading info. Bullet 168gr Sierra match King Imr 4064 powder .308 max load 45.9 grains 2766 ft/s. Same bullet same powder 30-06 50.8gr max load 2850ft/s. This is from hodgdonreloading.com
Very wrong
I guess I'm in trouble then. Because that's what I'm stocked up on is 7.62×51mm/308win.
I guess the reason we all clicked on this video was to see how effective this round would be for hunting cats. Looks good.
Actually, that comment at 1:08 about "Everyone getting together and voting on a caliber" is correct. .308 is a NATO standard, meaning NATO got together and decided that the .308 was the best overall round. It is the best value round.
308 is a great round
308 Win is not a great long range round.
You're right. Because it wasn't designed for that purpose. It's a damned good gun though for hunting.
It was designed by the military in the m14
@@gunnaraw I dont know man of shot good shots at deer that where long and they where spot on target longest shot around 330 in a open field
@@noahtotzke1526 330 yards (or meters for that matter) can hardly be considered as long range.
Another big difference between sports shooting, hunting and military situations is that in the former two categories is that the target normally doesn't actively try to take cover behind solid objects to not be hit and also never shoots back which means you don't need the Heavy, slow cover-shattering punch of .308 .30 06 or .50 cal ammo XD
Ballistics don't lie. You are right. You don't know how many times at the range people shake their head and walk away saying, "if he'd only had a 6.5 in that M1A" Good video. I like the 1200 yard shot one too. I get the whole long range ballistic effect thing. This video will be a good statistics study on, "correlation of dislikes on you tube video related to title error."
+Toadley Browne I spent years on ranges all over the US and several in Europe. Oddly, NEVER did I hear anyone utter those words. NEVER. Maybe I was in the right place, but it was the wrong time... NOT LIKELY!
Jerry Sullivan I love my M1A and the 308 cartridge. It shoots just fine. The comment was my silly humor. It was a good video with a bad title.
+Toadley Browne :-) if ya gotta have JUST ONE, the M1A in .308 is certainly near the top of my auto-loader list. I have friends in Germany who once took a week long comp with 6MM bolt guns but we only shot to 600. If ONLY they had a 6.5..... hahahahah....there are reasons why the .308 is the standard round .
+Toadley Browne I agree. I'm not getting rid of my 308 because it's not as accurate at 800 yards as some other caliber, but I do like my 6.5's and 7mm for beyond a 1000. I'd probably have to strap mine in a vise to shoot like these guys though.
I shot long range comps for some time.. and I never achieved more that the .308/.300WM guns could offer. The wildcats eg Ackley and Creedmore, 7MM Mag, ultramags .25-06 etc are fine and very accurate, but notice that they are more of a novelty, as they have not become the standard of the industry, and there are substantial reasons for that.
Just know the average wind speed and punch it in, you'll be close on all accounts, the 308 is tops.;)
+Shaggy_24740 Campbell and do that with 6.5 and you'll hit the target 40% more.
What do people dislike about this video? lol. All that's being said is the 6.5mm statistically gives you a higher likely hood of lead on target. That's it. If you want to speak to the context of ammo(availability, price, societal prolificacy, etc) that's a different video.
Good work man.
+Richard C. It's a huge advantage ballistic wise. I disagree that it would not matter.
It was 338, then 6.8, then 300 blk. Now it's the 6.5 Creedamoor. Nah, I'll stick with a PTR-91 and some cheap 308 steel case. You can either shoot good or you can't. It's the guys that spend 10 minutes talking about triggers and the latest caliber that scare me.
338 will always be the shit man don't talk crazy
PTR 16 inch with an aimpoint and steel cased 308. rough but ready to do the job. Fuckin right dude, I'm ready. and my steel cased is cheap.
Solid video! I love my .260REM for Long Range shooting!!
I'm in the process of building a .260 rifle myself. I'm not going through my. 308's away. Just one more cool toy 😎
People will never stop shooting 308 because it's a great cartridge Barrel life is a lot longer it's a lot less expensive so you do the math
This whole video is literally math
I suddenly feel a lot better about how many hits I get shooting 168gr re-manufactured ammo at 975 yards
I'm for PRACTICAL Rifle Shooting. I want to be able to shoot anything I may come across, 6.5 included. Townsend Whelen could shoot .30-06 better than 90% of people can shoot anything today.
Excellent work, yes a 6.5 is much better than a .308. I just think a .308 is a nice all around round, better in some, worse in others.
Wait lets not forget the .300 wm. that is also the Demon spawn of the .308. 200g of sexy death. Oh and the Marine Corps is using it. The 6.5 is for paper punching "I'm scared to get donkey kicked in the shoulder types", not cold blooded killers that use it in the field.
Dumbass
soldiersystems.net/2018/03/23/ussocom-adopts-6-5-cm/
Good info. Nonsense title.
+Ashok Kumar "Provocative" click bait, but I agree with it.
Have a couple good, accurate .308's along with a couple good, accurate 6.5 Creed-mores. Along with the guns have several trained friends/family if it comes to a SHTF situation . Because having several guns along with more then one friend and family that can shoot well is a very good thing.
.308 guys get so defensive when you start stating facts like BC , retained velocity, muzzle velocity and trajectory. Hell, 6.5mm and 7mm bullets still offer more kenetic energy in some platforms than the heavy. 308s can but no one want to hear facts. I personally would prefer a 7mm-08 over a .308 Winchester any day but for long range PRS I'll stick with a 6.5mm projectile, nice flat trajectory with high BS bullets. Just look at what the pros use. I've shoot my 6.5 Grendel at 1200 yards in matches and swept the floor with .308s. I'm not saying. 308s won't shoot just stating 6.5s and 7mm's have better ballistic characteristics for long range in a short action platform.
+Ryan Rosser I shot my Grendel today. Great cartridge. I'm glad you brought up the 7mm-08. That's my next build. The 162gr amax has a 625BC. That's hard to beat. Same bullet as 7mm mag and a lot more fun to shoot.
Yeah, the recoil on my 6.5 Grendel allows me to stay on the scope, watch my vapor trail and impact and make split second wind corrections and it's cheap and fun to shoot. What length barrel are you going with for your 7mm-08?
I don't know yet. Prob 22 or 24, I'm open to suggestions though. I have to be able to shoot the high BC bullets, so it's taking me a little while to find one. Seems like there's a lot of 1:9.5. I don't know if that fast enough though.
You are not wrong. But for a battle rifle I will still keep my 308.
Which I mention that in the video , .308 is a good. Battle rifle round.
totally biased towards the 6.5.... u do realize that the .3 moa difference between the .308 and the 6.5 that u used in that calculation is being translated by the software as a 100% difference, right? that alone could account for the huge difference in the outcome. u cant use some websites claim that says "the average moa deviation is .6 for a .308 and then say well, "I shoot .3 with 6.5MM, so im gonna use that for MY round's calculations." thats not scientific at all... and i highly doubt u shoot .3 ALL the time, thats more likely ur personal best.
+sosocrazy1234 Glad I'm not the only one that noticed that bias. .3 MOA will always beat .6 MOA so how about this guy starting from a level playing field so we can get an honest comparison. And as you said I doubt this guy is getting .3 MOA on anything like a consistent basis, that is benchrest competition accuracy and he ain't using a benchrest comp. rifle in this vid.
+sosocrazy1234 If you take the time to watch the video you'll see I compare a .3 MOA .308 and a .5 MOA 6.5 mm as well.
+lilbeserk Stock up , and barrels won't be hard to find.
+ColdWarWarriors You are not the only one, because you're one of the many that did not watch it all the way though where I Compare a .3 MOA .308 and .5 MOA 6.5 Creedmoor as well.
I love scrolling through all these comments and reading the .308 yerpdy derps that are getting so butthurt when he CLEARLY STATES THE .308 IS STILL A VIABLE ROUND for things other than competition. It's just ballistics and recoil are inferior to the 6/6.5mm in competition settings. If .308 was such a great caliber to compete with, then why are exactly ZERO top shooters using it. Yes, when the world ends, there will be way more .308 than 6.5x47, but in the meantime, having decent recoil management and a better bc is way more important in a PRS shoot (which is *ahem* THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS VIDEO) than......I don't know.....shooting God's caliber? I'm not entirely sure what the argument is for the .308.
I prefer 7mm Remington Magnum
+Mcnugget extremely accurate caliber. A lot of people can't handle the recoil though. I like mine. BC of 625 in 162 gr amax. I shoot it in 7mm-08 too.
I knew trump would shoot a 7mm mag!
You go heavy on documented facts and light on the opinion factor, and make a real valid argument for the higher B.C. 6.5 rounds. Of course it should be predictable that the non thinkers, and the irrational will virtually always mouth breath some non valid response. Put simply, who cares what anybody who ignores actual facts "Opines" ? I'll go with the stats and increased percentages myself...based on the facts, not my opinion. Thanks.
30-06!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yes thank you brother you know the deal
Has a lot more recoil.
slightly better than .308
Virtually the same but there are differences. Why not both ?
The military can't choose? That's not entirely true, spec ops navy seals operators have a nearly unlimited budget when it comes to firearms. And can pick and choose just about any rifle on earth, the Springfield m14 (7.62) has seen alot of use by the seals. Granted I acknowledge the content of your video is for civilian shooters who engage targets in competition at extreme ranges.
The 7.62x51 is a proven performer and I will continue to use it well.
+Jack Wayne it's also proven to fall far behind the 6.5s
Your round may be an out performer in a normal time setting, but time is running out. I swear you people think everything is okie dokie. This Country and it's currency is very near to collapsing. Your out performer is an ammunition that will be hard to come by. You want to be using the same ammunition as the bad guys will be using against you, ie 7.62x51; 5.56; 9mm; 45 caliber; 50 caliber.
+Jack Wayne okay Jack , back to your bunker.
+Ryan's Range Report that's how stupid and naive you are.
People like you always insults your Veterans. You want to enjoy and thrive off of our blood and hardships, but when we speak and give you warning of the wolves approaching down the road, you insult us. Fuck you, dude.
Ballistic co efficiency 6.5 is far better than 7.62. The reason the military use it is because of the average targets distance and stopping power. 7.62 may be going subsonic at 1100 but it still causes more damage to the human body than a 6.5 would.
Loved your part on the military not choosing. Excellent point!
+M6A2shooter trust me, fully aware. Right now the rifles available are chambered in 7.62, 300wm, 338 lm, and .50. Contrary to popular belief seals, whoever, can't just pick whatever they want. Even with the various calibers available the rifle, optics, etc are still dictated by contracts, etc.
+M6A2shooter Do you have a link supporting that? I'm not a big military knowledge buff, but would be interesting to read the info on it.
+M6A2shooter have fun at your airsoft game bro
+M6A2shooter ya dude. I'm going to go ahead and stop. Been there, doing it still.
+M6A2shooter want to know what? How about you join and then let me know what the answer is.
I believe special forces just switched to 6.5 creed. And the army is testing out the 6.8. With sig leading the way with the 6.8 speed. Looks awesome. Having said that, would buy a battle rifle instead.
I see 6.5 ammo at Walmart everytime im there, infact its always available even when other calibers are sold out..
+Hangtown Gunner LOL! Do they blow the dust off of the boxes?
+Hangtown Gunner Let me know what Walmart. I need some more 6.5 creedmoor brass. lol
It's just so hard to beat a 308 on availability and things. Which you mentioned that in the video, so not knocking you at all, you were knowledgeable about the fact that it's not perfect for every situation and that most people will prefer a 308 in most cases. Just great to see someone state an opinion, realize it's an opinion, and respect others at the same time. In the future, I'll pick up a 6.5 just because of this video.
Blah Blah Blah
The topic certainly does stir a good old fashion debate. It really is a good video not deserving so many dislikes. Thank you for your service to our country.
And because of this video, I now have a rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor and will not be wasting time trying to reach out with 308
Awesome video! I swapped out my 308 for 260 rem few years ago and never looked back. The comments on this vid are killing me..lol Dont know how you do it Ryan.
Barrel life? - Last I was looking the 6.5 burns up barrels, they start loosing accuracy at 1500 rounds - The .308 will go 5000 rounds before it begins to fade. - So as this video points out - Unless you are on the cutting edge of competition there may be better choices for the average person.
+jake legg I run my 6.5s pretty hard, and shoot 10 rounds strings of fire on most matches. With that I still get 2,500 before I decide to rebarrel. I've seen 4000k rounds on a 6.5x47L that was still going pretty strong.
lilbeserk PRS is expensive, but so are many sports. If you can afford to get started in the game, I figure you want the best caliber you can afford which the 6.5 Creedmoor is clearly one of those calibers. I would not even consider shooting a .308 against those calibers. That being said there IS a tactical .223 / .308 class where you compete against others shooting the same calibers. That should make it more affordable for others as well.
No disagreement from me. If you shoot competition and you reload, 6.5 is a great choice. I don't do either, so I find .308 to be the best bang for the buck. I shoot both a bolt gun and an AR in .308. I like being able to buy ammo in bulk. I buy the cheap stuff (brass case only) for plinking and it's easy to find cases of 168 and 175gr. match grade online.
I'd like to see you re-run this comparison, but instead of using constant ranges to show varying hit probabilities, instead adjust the range so you have equal hit probabilities between 6.5 and .308.
A while back I ran the same sort of exercise as you did, with the above change (using admittedly much less powerful tools), and I concentrated only on misses due to wind. My result was that, whatever the 6.5x284 could do at 1000 yards, the 6.5 Creedmoor could do at 900, and the .308 could do at 800. In other words, the hit probabilities were about equal at those different ranges.
So, then the question becomes, is it worth the extra hundred yards out at those ranges (assuming my comparison yielded reasonable numbers) to give up the benefits of .308 - benefits having mainly to do with availability? For competition use, I think the answer is certainly yes. For SHTF or war, I think probably not.
Why not for war? We spend BILLIONS of dollars on war. Why not have a better caliber ? For SHTF I stock up on other calibers,but nothing wrong with .308.
373 Ruger is a killer round. Much better than a .308 but that's not a choice here I know.
Feels like most of the commenters miss the point of this video. This is in regards to a specific usage of a rifle. LR competitions. Go ahead and use your .308 for whatever but you will suffer in LR competitions.
+Hagge Bänke (Robobunny) Most people thumbed this down because the title, it should have read why you shouldn't be shooting .308 for competition. As I mentioned in another comment, the vast majority of people do not practice or hunt at 1000 yds. so this video is useless to them. .308 is a great round, and can be found for cheap, that most people are never going to shoot past 500 yds.
+Tyler Padgett You are correct. I have both .308 and 6.5 rifles but for different purposes.
+Hagge Bänke (Robobunny) - That's partially because the video creator used an incomplete and misleading title as click bait... knowing damn well, that in most cases where the .308 would be used, you would never stop using that round for a 6mm. He used a very general title to describe an extraordinarily rare a specific reason for his video.
If he would have titled this, "Don't Use .308 for Practical/Tactical" he would have had 15 viewers.
vandgar - You are correct. Still silly of most commenters to argue against the title not the video ;)
+vandgar - Honestly when I made the video, it was for my small channel, and I had no idea it was going to have 100k views in a month. If you were a subscriber, and followed the channel the title would make perfect sense. Now when you search .308 it's the first video that comes up. I'd say 90% of the negative comments were all points I brought up during the video.
well no duh you should shoot a 6.5 creedmoor. wait. stop shooting 6.5, use .338. If youre competition shooting then go for the 6.5, if you want to be able to go out and have fun without breaking the bank, buy a 308 rifle for less than a K and youre in the game. I mean 6.5 guns are a good 5 grand mid range. if youre going to go through all that id go .338....
+Jacob Dirkson Go for both. You can get a pretty accurate rifle in 308 and 6.5 creedmoor for about $500. Ruger predator, and cabelas has a savage 10T that's $599. Either of those guns are capable of far more than my ability
Ryan, you're just going to have to concede. The people have spoken. :)
Awaiting to receive my Rock River Arms LAR-8 Elite Operator, with chrome lined barrel.
Love the .308.
The .308 round in general is just garbage... I've been saying this for years. The only advantage the .308 has even over something as common as .270 win, is that is any SHTF scenario there is going to be a lot more 308 ammo around than anything else.
Yup, nothing wrong with having SHTF calibers. I tend to stock up on 5.56
What about the price between the rounds? Is this just for target shooting purposes or being able take larger animals down? One thought is that 6.5 isn't going to be readily available so if you choose it for anything other than target shooting matches then you'd better stock up pretty good.
+Dale Phillips I provided examples of this in the video. Match grade 6.5 CM is close in price to .308 match. When I was still shooting 6.5 creedmoor and using factory ammo I would buy 1000 rounds at a time. If you're buying it for hunting I feel you could buy 200 rounds and it should last you for years. That being said .308 is fine for hunting, and the video was targeted to match shooters
Stop shooting .308.... Um no I see your point about performance but it's not all about just that. .308 is a proven round and not going away anytime soon if ever. Also teaches you a lot of important skills about windage and compensating . Not everyone has to be into the 6.5 craze. Yes there's more drop and less BC in a .308 but still is a great viable option, and more readily available in cheap factory ammo than about anything else other than the Russian calibers or .223. Lots of easy load data too and economical to shoot to practice and learn long range. Not saying 6.5s aren't either but .308 definitely has its purpose and will continue too... On another note Actually also .243 and 7mm-08 compete well against 6.5s. 7mm-08 ballistically similar to ywith better barrel life too...7mms being another option in place of 6.5s or 30...6mms also have a great BC just .243 is harder on barrels and takes more to push it too keep up with the larger calibers..wind drift..great option though
+Landry Jones In competition it is going away, outside of .308 specific classes. 7mm and 6mm are also great options.
+Ryan's Range Report it took me rewatching some rethinking and such to know that's what you meant more. Video title is a bit decieving in that regard haha. Your not knocking the .308 in general just that it has its disadvantages more in competition. I am not a competition shooter yet but likely will use .308 to start. I am just learning long range and shooting disiplines and I'm really enjoying what .308 has to offer. I just mentioned those other cartridges that they have great BCs too. Sorry if I came off a bit stout as I took your video the wrong way.
.308 is a great round and always will be. I believe everything has a niche. It is the best performing round out there? No but economically and for what it's intended role is over time it's definitely been good in its place. In competition it's loosing ground yes. However is still a viable option. Depends on a lot of factors and the shooter. I now realize weren't knocking it as a round in general but more in regards to comp
Its bullshit, how can you compare any one thing to another if the baseline data is different???? if you went back and ran the numbers through this program using the same input data I bet the outcome would be me closer than what was stated....ie .3moa for both calibres
+bravoboy1234 I compare a hand loaded .308 with .3 MOA accuracy as well in the video.
6.5s a cop out round. Its a laser, which is why its used in competition. Dont usually see it too much outside of that. 6.5s also tend to eat barrels more than other rounds. Your titles ridiculous. 6.5s a comp round, .308 is real world
+Devin Thebodeau 6.5 was a war round before .308, and it's BETTER than .308. It's still a very popular hunting round would wide.
wow Ryan, I did not believe you so I ran it though one of my program in two different weights and you are right. I am currently working on milling a couple of ar's and one has to be a 6.5 now. Thanks