Is the JESUS Story PLAGIARIZED from Pagan Myths?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this second part of a review of Zeitgeist: The Movie, we consider the claims made about the myths of Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, and Mithra (Mithras) to see just how similar to the narratives about Jesus of Nazareth they are. Was the writer of the film suffering from parallelomania?
After viewing, come back to the notes here for further information.
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► REFERENCES
Part 1 of this review:
• BAD HISTORY in ZEITGEI...
Zeitgeist the Movie in full: • Zeitgeist: The Movie -...
On the "dying-and-rising god" myths:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying-a...
On the rites of Attis:
journal.equinoxpub.com/JCH/ar...
Drudgery Divine by Jonathan Smith:
amzn.to/3j9dg5k
My London video covers more about Mithras: • The Oldest Part of Lon...
Professor Miano's handy guide for learning, "How to Know Stuff," is available here:
www.amazon.com/How-Know-Stuff...
Follow Professor Miano on social media:
►FACEBOOK: / drdavidmiano
►TWITTER: / drdavidmiano
►INSTAGRAM: / drmiano
I am convinced that David goes to sleep in a full suit
lol
Three part sheet set, three part suit!
You know what they say .
Historians are crazy for a sharp dressed man 🤔🤣🙈
Hes a real one.
I half expected to find a reply from him saying why that claim is incorrect.
So sad that conspiratorial YT channels can have hundreds to thousands to millions ov subs and yet channels like yours, that deal with Real ancient history, have so few!
You deserve so many more. Once more people grow up and get away from false history they will find this.
I appreciate your saying so!
It speaks a lot about the human condition. People in general NEED something to believe in, to give hope and inspiration. Religion filled this need for millennia, but now with religion in decline, it appears people are turning to other areas to fill the void. Some have turned to worship climate/nature, some to worship crystals and mysticism and others some lost civilization of advanced technology. All of them (including religion) have one thing in common...they require unquestioning faith. They probably don't like this channel because David questions and seeks evidence based answers.
@@rowey1992 not true. some religions require not faith, such as Buddhism, Gnosticism, or Paganism. Gnosticism is about gnosis, a direct knowing of God. Carl Jung had a direct knowing of God too and said so. Also look up Kemetic spirituality channel on TH-cam. It requires no faith or salvation theology.
@@happierabroad I hear what you say and you are no doubt far more knowledgeable on the topic than me. To me, a set of beliefs with ritualistic behaviors is religion and requires worship. The Buddhists, Pagans & Gnostics all practice a form of worship. It is this community of like mindedness that I was really getting at. People have this need to believe in something other than themselves, whether this be a force, God/s, greater good or whatever. This is the very need that sects exploit and how they gain membership. I will look up some of your suggestions and try and gain a broader understanding of the different belief systems. Cheers.
@@rowey1992 I think SOME people have a need for something to believe in. For many, it's not at all required. The more educated one is, the greater your understanding of yourself, society, Earth and it's systems, and the Universe. Most educated people do not have that "NEED" you speak of, understanding comes with it peace etc. Climate/nature does NOT require "unquestioning faith", you just outed yourself as a science denier, well science you don't like. 97% of EDUCATED SCIENTISTS, not high school "graduates" on youtube agree that humans are speeding up climate change GREATLY. Acknowledging that, isn't "worshipping" it, regardless of how much "religious" cultists would like it to be. Unless I misunderstood you, which I don't think I did.
As for your 2nd comment, many do not regard Buddhism etc as "religions" because there's no "god" per se....it doesn't really matter as THEY ARE ALL CULTS. "Ritualistic behaviours"....yep....cults....regardless of what people want to call them. Many western cultists("christians") don't even know that their cult("religion") was called the "Cult of Christo" for over a hundred years....it only changed because they gained power via Rome and the Flavian dynasty, and wanted to separate("distinguish" many say, despite it being nonsense) themselves from cults lacking power. Then they went all power mad and genocided non-cultists for over a thousand years.
Again, you're saying "People have this need to believe in something other than themselves, whether this be a force, God/s, greater good or whatever." That's not correct. SOME people, usually the least educated have such a need....because they do not understand the world and universe they live in, and it's actually FEAR from the lack of knowledge and the understanding of the world etc that it provides that leads them to joining cults such as "christianity" and other nonsense.
Ignorance is the problem....education is the solution.
Excellent. I, too, was fascinated by the Zeitgeist movie when it came out. While I do appreciate the original intent of the Zeitgeist author, your analyses show that checking your facts becomes even more important when the presented story agrees with your narrative. We all tend to become way to uncritical when we want to believe/agree with smth...
Yup, I agree.
Though I'm of the opinion that the Jesus Story is from an earlier time, an oral tradition from some group or other, the Zeitgeist movie made far too stretches of the imagination to be believable.
Your last sentence. So important. So true. I think the world would be a better place if everyone applied critical thinking to ideas they agree with as well as those they oppose. Perhaps it’s even more important to apply it to ideas with which we agree.
@@vladtheimpala5532 The world would also be a better place without the concept of religion, baaam, I said it :)
I agree, the concept of the movie was great and it was good for opening people's minds but it should have stuck to the facts more.
I'm especially interested in Roman history. Can you do a video on religion, beliefs and customs? Also, are there any original Latin papers from Roman times still extant?
I had never heard of this Zeitgeist movie, but at least I get to learn about ancient history
Lucky! It consumed the the stoner conspiracy sphere when it came out, and I think, is a direct cause of the mainstreaming of the current conspiracy culture that is running rampant in conservative circles around the world.
I hate spreading false info that I heard from videos I half paid attention to while gaming. I’m so glad that I’m finding channels like yours. I can slowly squeeze the bad history out of my algorithm and replace it with more honest history
yeah i always feel like i’m an idiot when i do it
Do you own research on the real knowledge?
Theology helps . Langauge is the key, etymology and phonics are required .
Religion is a government scam
@@neonlost But you have the straight top do that💯♥️
Fantastic work, David.
Hello there buddy, and welcome to World of Antiquity.
Many thanks, Matt!
Great to see you here Matt, been a sub on your channel for ages. I really like the evidence based approach you take these days....peace to ya.
@@WorldofAntiquity you should de bunk Eric "con" Danikken. He is one of the biggest fraudsters alive. And responsible for so many people thinking aliens did everything
@@Alberthoward3right9up I don’t know if it’s worth his time. He spends it well enough as it is and any minimal amount of research can prove how ridiculous Erich’s theories are.
Jesus wasn't raised after three days either - he was raised on the THIRD day. The third day is only two days after the first.
It can be even less: the Gospel stories have Jesus dying mid afternoon on the Friday, entombed before the start of the sabbath a few hours later and the empty tomb being found in the morning on Sunday. Moreover, the latter is typically celebrated (in Catholicism, at any rate) starting at sundown on the Saturday - barely a day later.
Yep, Jesus gave up his weekend for your sins.
It never happened
That old "inclusive reckoning" of the Romans, according to which the day before yesterday was "three days ago." We also see it in "tertian malaria," where the fever recurs after 48 hours or "every third day," whereas "quartan malaria" has a crisis every 72 hours.
Jesus died on a friday afternoon. He rose on early Sunday morning. a day and a half.
Zeitgeist feels a lot like a game of cultural numerology.
_"Oh, your god x, well that's the same our god y"_
That's pretty much the MO of Roman diplomacy from beginning to end.
Very true.
interpretatio romana never fails
Yes, the Roman and Greek gods/goddesses do have many similarities.
@@mrsatire9475 Not even similarities, just direct copies
@@ApostleOfZeus199 They live on and are honored by christians when they keep the holidays like easter and winter solstice.
Zeus be with you!
I applaud your work, and your ability to coherently and decisively show these pseudo-parallels, let alone call them out. You give the wider nation/world information to make their own logical decisions. I have spent many years of my time in this area, and have leaned to take everything another says with a grain of salt, as should you all. We will all choose our own parts and paths to take with us, to share with our children, and which is exactly what these informative documentaries attempt to deduce, put to the test, and ultimately lay to rest, questions which by other means cannot be answered. Thank you sir for your contribution to society itself - when it needs it most.
Came here from Trey's vid and glad I did, cause your channel is a treasure trove of content. Love when that happens, got a bunch looking forward to now hahah!
If you ever take "requests" of topics, I've personally been trying to collect material of actual historical mentions (not just archaeological remnants) of pre-Indo-European Europeans, "Old Europe" so to speak. There's understandably very little of it to find. From Greece there are some few mentions of peoples existing before the (Proto-)Greek arrival. These peoples being described as having "sprung from the earth" as opposed to immigrated - a term they later start using for Greek tribes who've lived in the same areas for long.
I've always found the topic fascinating. It might be one of the absolute most impactful changes in Europe's history, but it's just at the cusp of where history disappears into the fog of time. So tantalizing, so frustrating! So "close", yet so far, RIP
Like I said, if you ever consider "tips" of topics and find it interesting, I'd die for a video about it.
Ahhh good reminder. Forgot about that, and I enjoyed Trey's work on the Colossus, so def gonna check out what these 2 slapped together.
@Marko, are you talking about Trey Smith? The nephilim guy?
Thanks so much for creating this channel, I always hoped a real scholar of history would address all these conspiracy types on YT, fantastic work!
I really really like this channel. So much amazing religious history to study that there is no need to exaggerate it.
It’s always wild how in the search to unify these myths, that they always miss the forest for the trees. They don’t all have to be related to tell us something about human nature. The fact they aren’t related and yet still share similarities says something vastly more interesting about humanity than the implication they’re all just variations of the same base myth. It shows that despite how differently we view the world, that we all share the same base human experiences of childbirth, life, and death, and the search for meaning.
Great point!
All gifted to us by God revealing His ways to us humans.
Myths are unified by the human experience. They may form similar patterns in very different parts of the world and separated by a long period of time. They serve the same purpose.
@@matthewpaul1111 Yes, Zeus be with you!
Great idea for that little survey when downloading the free ebooklet. Do you have the resulting demographics displayed anywhere?
I don't. Maybe I should publish them at some point.
About Krishna, he had a mortals mother father, who were married and lives in the same quarter(prison). Vasudev father and Devaki mother. But his big brother Balram embryos shifted from Devaki placenta to Rukamani(a surrogate mother) by the boon of god. To save him from the blade of his mother-uncle
Kans
Parallelomania is the most human thing ever. Searching for patterns and seeing them everywhere, even where there is nothing there. Correlation is not causation, as they say.
Love your work btw. Nice to see a proper historian on TH-cam, who is entertaining, and delivers info in an interesting way. But who bases their views on the evidence, instead of finding evidence that supports their views.
The more accurate statement is correlation is not necessarily causation. Correlation can in fact be causation, but to assume correlation is causation is dangerous.
Its really known as a matrix
but you people would never understand
@@je-freenorman7787 is that true, or is it just crucial to your self identity that you know something everyone else doesn’t?
what are you confused about? What do you need me to teach you? @@danm9297
You could go right now, on your own You Tube page and easily find dozens of bible scholars that talk about the MYTH of Jesus. There has never been a single shred of proof that there was ever a man named Jesus
You could find any theologan and they will tell you that this man is wrong. All religion comes from other religion. Christianity is totally built from Pagan beliefs. We all know. This fool is confused. Its sad that he calls himself a scholar and then speads lies with his fat ego.
Religion will never be considered truth
Christ mas itself was a Pagan festival called Saturnalia, which also revolves around the equinox which helps prove that the movie Zeigheist is CORRECT @@danm9297
I really appreciate this video. I would have watched it to the end if it was hours instead of only minutes long. If TH-cam had a rating system rather than just thumbs up or thumbs down I would give it the highest possible rating. This is a topic I’m very interested in and I believe you treated it very fairly in this video. I may have more to say later but I have some research to do first and it takes me time to compose a coherent comment. I tend to get a bit long winded and rambling if I’m not careful.
I have a real problem with researchers who start with a conclusion then focus their research in a direction which supports that conclusion. I believe that is dishonest. I can tell that you share that concern. A knowledge of the truth is more important than supporting a particular narrative or agenda.
Great video I was wondering regarding parallels, do you think there are parallels regarding osiris and jesus and romulus?? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this
Thanks, another excellent refutation of the Alternative History brigade.
It amazes me sometimes how polite you are. I am less so and would be inclined to use the word sophistry quite a lot with these people.
I applaud you, Professor Miano, for so thoroughly clearing these matters up on TH-cam.
Modern media is so infested with any proposed reality, it gets out of control.
Thank you for posting this! I am reading through the Bible for the first time and saw a post about these other “Christ” figures in some of my online learnings and this video deserves so much more recognition! It’s so hard to find all of this evidence with trustworthy sources! I appreciate your attention to detail and understanding of the real histories!
He's done a good job so far.
Right now im only about 9 minutes into it so im not sure if he covers this, but "plagiarism" is not the proper word to be using here, in fact im not sure if a single term or word would do it justice. Its less plagiarism and more.... absorbing certain idea's or histories into the early christian religion as it spread..... like global herpes.
There have been many saviors throughout history, Christ was not the first or last.
@@yahweh2787exactly, I cant really take a.ericans seriously when it comes to this topic, they are too brainwashed
@@yahweh2787 The historical evidence for Christs Resurrection has withstood 2000 years of mockery, debate, suppression and the torture of countless millions of Christians and this evidence still stands powerfully. In fact many very intelligent atheists who set out to destroy Christianity by studying the evidence so that they could prove the Resurrection to be a myth or legend, were so impressed by the quality of the confirming evidence that they became believers in the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
@@matthewpaul1111 amen❤❤🙏
Thank you for putting these videos on TH-cam. I am a fan of several of the 'other' ancient history sites but I think more for the visual exploration than the 'theory' they promote. As you have noted they are more sizzle than steak!
I love your channel. You're going toe to toe against the UFO/alien/woo-woo people without ever being patronizing and condescending, which I think is the best attitude to have.
Hi. I just want to say thank you for wearing suits on camera and not trying to be annoyingly funny or gimmicky.
This is quickly becoming one of my favorite antiquity channels!
Amen, I can't stand channels that feel like they need to add comedic relief whenever possible to keep people interested in the subject!
I'm pretty ambivalent regarding the lack of comedic relief, and I find the level of gravitas invoked by clothing choice to be minimal at best. I look beyond these largely irrelevant things and focus on the information itself, and the the trust in it that has been established by watching many of David's videos.
Amazing video, love your takes on classical history. I guess it would be nice if you did one about mithraism, the sources thav i've read simply vary too much from one another. Great channel!
I discuss Mithraism in a bit more detail here: th-cam.com/video/Q91CxvdVpzQ/w-d-xo.html
@@WorldofAntiquity Oh, thank you!
Interesting conversation! I support your use of plain words and expressions to describe myths, one less layer of uncertainty to worry about.
I had a quick question, you had mentioned that during the translation of the Septuagint the timelines of antediluvian histories had been elongated. What would be good sources to read about this?
This might be helpful: sci-hub.se/doi.org/10.1017/S0017816000029278
@@WorldofAntiquity Thank you!
I’m so happy that you cleared this up. That darn movie ruined me for years. It was devastating for me. I wish I had fact checked all of this then, but I didn’t know where to start. Amazing work 😊
Yep a pretty dishonest movie!
...but using this bad movie as a form of conformation bias on another is reckless on it's own and gets us no closer to the "truth" of any other holy book.
Holding unrealistic and unwarranted beliefs without good reasons until someone proves otherwise is lazy thinking.
Jesus Loves you! You are amazing, God is always with you, Amen. ✝️❤️♾️
@@daughteroftheHighest. Amen.
Also, Jesus's birthdate being on Dec 25th wasn't really a thing until about 4th century. It was proposed by the bishop of my hometown because it matched neatly with the winter solstice festivities and adopting the new holiday would be easier for pagan people. Also that meant that the Epiphany matched neatly with some other spring festivities so the idea stuck around.
We invented Christmas in England
As I understand it, the pagans had this big festival on the 25th of December. Everything closed down so the people could attend. No food could be bought, no business could be conducted, nothing was open. The Christians could do nothing but sit at home. So they decided to celebrate Jesus birth on the same day. That way everyone was celebrating on the same day, but for different reasons.
Nah we get Jesus’ birth from Jewish traditions about prophets dieing three months after their conception which would place Jesus’ birth on December 24th or 25th.
Likewise all of the pagan festivals you mention which I assume are Saturnalia and Yuletide where actually celebrated on November 17th before Christians brought with the celebration of Christmas which dates back to the earliest traditions of the church.
@@LadyLeda2 Actually, winter solstice was a bloody festival where children were sacrificed to the pagan son god horus
@@jarlwilliam9932 Is that the reason why Horus, Mithras, Kna & Dionyus who all came wayy before Jesus all share the same birthday?
I really enjoyed that, and as ever, will have to watch it a few times to wrap my head around everything. It does remind me of your last book review by Ms Galef. The difference between a scout and and soldier. You are a true scout David (i did reply to that person who was going back and forth with you). Massive respect to all WOA.
Excellent video as usual - speaking of parallels, have you ever done any comparisons between the gospels & Paul's writings and the contemporary hero myths, i.e., Hercules & Odysseus?
Since Paul is the earliest link we know of to Jesus, and Paul being a trained scribe, he would surely be well read in the popular literature of his day.
I apologize if you have addressed this already, I'm still working my way through your awesome collection. 👍
I can debunk the film director's story on Krishna:
- Virgin Birth: No he didn't have a virgin birth. He was born to Vasudeva and Devaki in a prison, where Devaki got a divine vision that Vishu, the divine manifestation of Krishna, will be born to her; and eventually, free her from her brother's dungeons. In fact, her brother Kansha had already committed infanticide on his 7 nephews and nieces, before Krishna was born. Moreover, there is nothing about immaculate conception in Vedic mythologies. I mean immaculate conception would totally shatter the Hindu-Buddhist theory of "moksha/nirvana" because if your birth is sin-free you end up in heaven (unlike Abrahamic religion, in Hinduism the mortal realm isn't something worth cherishing). Moreover, our scriptures/myths encourage procreation (because it's a river valley civilization with the constant disease, bickering and warfare)!!!
- Star in the East: There is no such eastern star. According to myth, he was born on the midnight of the 8th day of the 3rd month of monsoon. He might be referring to the zodiac associated with the month, but Vedas/Puranas don't even have Zodiacs. Zodiacs were brought to the subcontinent by Alexander.
- Performed Miracles: Duh! He is a manifestation of a God. That wasn't unexpected of him! Like everyone knew he was the physical manifestation (incarnation) of Vishnu. This should not be considered semi-divine, this is total divine. Moreover, unlike Abrahamic prophets, Hindu divine incarnations don't suffer like mortals. In fact, Krishna is considered a mischief-maker in his childhood, a philanderer in his late teens and early adulthood, and finally a seasoned politician much like Machiavelli in the rest of his life. In fact, early colonial missionaries would point to this philandering and scheming nature of Krishna as the work of Satan to preach Christianity.
- Resurrections: There is nothing to be resurrected. He was a God, he decided to end his life after he was wounded at the end of a civil war that wiped out his progeny.
Great info! Thanks for sharing.
@@WorldofAntiquity Thanks for the video David
@@swagatochatterjee7104 I disagree with one thing that zodiac was brought by Alexander.
@@mytube12 in India it was brought by Alexander. There is no reference of Zodiac in any Vedic literature
@@swagatochatterjee7104 that doesn't prove it ,neither whether Alexander was a set up
You should do a video of myths that Christianity did take inspiration from. No doubt I also want to see how abhrahmic faiths spawned from paganism :). I'm planning to study history and folklorism one day, so that'd be cool if you made a video on it. Is your email open for questions by the way? I really want to study history & cultures, but I don't know where to start.
You can ask me questions here (if you don't mind me using it in a video): www.speakpipe.com/DavidMiano
Hope you're not holding your breath waiting on that video.
From what I understand the Abrahamic Faiths have their origins in the same Indo-European Religions Hellenic, Mesopotamian, Canaanite, and Norse Religions stem from. Judaism started out as a polytheistic religion, the transitioned to Henotheism, and finally strict Monotheism. Christianity in turn was born from Hellenistic Judaism and Hellenistic Philosophy. As it spread out across the Mediterranean it became more and more gentile and incorporated more and more gentile beliefs. Which was the source if no shortage of controversies in the early Church. I’m less familiar with Islam and it’s development but the pagan influences on Christianity are interesting to say the least.
Funny how you already have formed beliefs and now you just want someone to confirm them. I believe we call that "komfirmation bias"... or was it "confirmashon bias"? I'll have to get back to you on that one.
Which cultures? Just ancient ones in general or do you have a specific geographical area in mind? There are two great podcasts you should check out; Ancient History Fangirl and Let’s Talk About Myths, Baby. Do you already have a collection of books? The Timetables of History by Grun was one of my college textbooks that you can order from Amazon. The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Campbell is also a great starter. Have fun and good luck!
1st word I learned from this channel was Euhemerism and now I just learned a 2nd great word Parallelomania. :)) Really appreciate that. :))
Outstanding! It is very satisfying to watch your step by step dismantling of these "experts". Your parents (or guardians) should be very proud, as I am sure they are. This is true of ALL your comparisons. I have even made my friends and relatives fans. Stay true to Science.
Thanks for doing this. When it comes to similarities in stories, are we looking at the cultural equivalent of what in biology is termed "convergent evolution". In other words, if it is a common human trait to have magical thoughts about sex and birth, should we be surprised that different groups of people come up with similar magical stories about such? Also, if it is common among humans to fear death and hope for an afterlife, is it surprising that similar religious stories would spring up about death and resurrection? I suspect that the similarities in religious stories are simply a testament to how alike we humans are to each other.
A combination of that and of cross-cultural transmission. Many peoples have common ancestors, and the myths of each descendant group will have that original base overlaid with their experiences and environments. Trade and commerce mean contact, slaves and subject peoples share their stories, and out of that we get new stories, legends, myths, and religions.
RE " if it is common among humans to fear death and hope for an afterlife, is it surprising that similar religious stories would spring up about death and resurrection? I suspect that the similarities in religious stories are simply a testament to how alike we humans are to each other."
Isn't this it - the human 'condition' - realizing wtf we die ! Why'd we have children !! Don't tell 'em what really happens.... and so on = ways to deal with it and the simple hope we or someone will figure it out - someone's gotta know !
In fact there has never been an atheist society. Average person cant name one. Nat Geo has never dug one up. It would have been trumpeted So theism seems to be in our DNA. Why else would theism be in every culture ?
When you see the lurid paintings and statues from Pompeii you cannot help feeling that so much emphasis was put on the coupling act. It does not take a genius to figure that they would include such ideas in their stories about their deities. Even in the Hellenistic pantheon these stories dominate. I am sure that if you wish to infuriate people to such an extent that they would buy your book or watch your film it is a good modis operandi to use a prominent Holy Prophet to get rich and infamous. Note: he is very unlikely to do the same to the Muslim Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) he wishes to stay alive long enough to enjoy his wealth and notoriety.
Wasnt “King of Kings” a relatively common title in antiquity preceding Christianity? If so, this is another flaw in peter’s argument for Dionysus
yes, I think that some Mesopotamian kings called themselves that
Yes, it was. There were kings that were literally rulers over other kings.
Didnt the persian/iranian rulers use that title right up to the revolution in 1979?
@@cactuscornette They sure did!
Pretty much. Though we often call ancient rulers emperors, King of Kings is a more accurate title because Emperor comes from the Latin Imperator which means someone who wields Imperium: authority to command troops.
You talk abut the paganization of the Jesus story, would like to hear more about that.
Btw. I really like your videos. Even, when I not that interested in ancient history (I´m much more interested in modern history after the congress of Vienna).
I have a question, Zeitgeist wants to find an exact original version of the Jesus story, but as you lay out they are wrong. But have we evidence of storys wich where used as a model? Not exactly the same but like "yeah that is a good story, maybe I write or tell something similar"?
A model for the Jesus narrative, you mean? Not in whole, but there are some elements in it that are similar to earlier narratives in the Hebrew Bible.
@@WorldofAntiquity Hm interesting. So it could be that early Christians used their "predecessor religion" as an inspiration?
I thought for a long time that Jesus story wasn´t original. Not because of zeitgeist (OMG no, you don´t discuss it, but I think you also saw their racist and antisemitic tropes). Because many holidays are ore at least could be pagan (is pagan not a false description? Like Barbarians?) holidays like Saturnalia. So I asumed that for their major story too (sorry to all Christian, don´t want to offend you).
Kind of important that the original word that was translated to "virgin" does not mean what the modern word virgin means either. It essentially meant "young girl," but had no sexualized connotation.
could have been a girl raped or .....who knows
Yes!!! No one talks much about THAT!!
I recall a student once recommended I watch Zeitgeist, which I hadn't heard of at the time, and when I said I would look it up, another student said, "It's blasphemy!" I did eventually watch it. What is the most interesting and/or outlandish conspiracy theory film you've watched?
For me there is nothing that comes close to the many seasons of Ancient Aliens and all of the spinoffs that are out there.
The da Vinci Code - a great tale, but horrendous history. It encouraged me to look more deeply into the historicity of the Gospels, which I find to be very strong.
Excellent video - very worth watching, thanks for uploading!
As always, excellent video! What I had to think about while watching was that one time I know comparing literary works actually did something extremely nice: Exposing the DAMNED Protocols for what they are.... Waiting for a video on that one, mate! ;-)
Which protocols are those?
@@WorldofAntiquity Elders of Zion.... But that's not ancient, so probably not up your alley...
I know this was posted about a year ago but in the video description I don’t see the link for your video on Horus.
It is labeled "Part 1 of this review."
@@WorldofAntiquity - Thank you. I looked and looked, and finally found it.
Excellent work!!!
I have never watched Zeitgeist, but a few years ago I came upon some presentations by Richard Carrier, which are related in subject. Those videos have over million views by now (check out some of the top). His arguments seemed credible to me (a total layman) especially given that he's an actual historian and didn't seem to be a crackpot. I intended to dig deeper into his works and of his critics, but never got around to it. It would take just too much time, and I don't have the knowledge to judge it all anyway. It would be great if perhaps you did a video about his claims someday. Just a pitch.
Carrier makes some compelling points and uses bayesian reasoning to come up with a probability of Jesus being a historical figure. He comes up with a 60% chance that Jesus was mythological. He's one of two people currently with peer reviewed work on the issue. He has a lot of debates on TH-cam where you could hear his arguments and the counter arguments.
He also explains how Mithras and Jesus are actually related to each other. Probably common influences but not one influencing the other.
I don't know if everyone will be fully pleased with Dr Miano's answers to this because he has a bias being a Christian. But I hope he does it for sure. I hope he includes D.M. Murdock/Acharya S in the video as well. I know it's touchy since she's dead and can't defend herself but there are articles of hers where she directly disputes other historians.
Man I’m glad to find you. I don’t have an agenda to prove Christianity I just get annoyed when people so tritely make unfounded claims. I’ve never heard of that movie Zeitgeist yet I’ve heard countless people quote it
I really appreciate the scientific approach. Also it'd be amazing if you could do a video on the topic of historical Jesus and the impact of the fictional or actual person on creation of the Christianity.
This is the right way to disagree or inform people of a subject that may have false information. It disgust me when some go out of there way to spread hate and lies like they did to Graham Hancock. You can disagree without labeling people "racist". I don't agree with Graham on many things but he didn't deserve what the media spread about him. thank you for being respectful.
Somehow I got in before the first one officially came out by a few months and I was enthralled by it. So much so that I was showing anybody who'd listen.
Prior to that, I was getting a group together in my college to gather historical documents, speeches, audio, video, whatever it was, and set about correcting history books and/ or expanded on the truncated versions. Not in a conspiratorial way, but a legit, this is real solid evidence kind of way. Which is why the latter half of Zeitgeist interested me so much.
Enter Dave.
I had a friend named Dave, a much older guy who was mostly a tutor in every subject at the library. This man knew almost anything you needed and had a personal library of literally thousands of books, all read. The kind of guy who could quote you stuff off of a page of a random book he'd read six years prior. I showed him the video and he was like "uh, yeah, I've got some questions." He asked "are you sure? ARE. YOU. SURE?" a lot. Which when a guy like that asks, it's only right to start questioning it.
And boy did I have some questions. I had realized I was taking most of it at face value. In regards to the religion stuff, I had read up a little bit on some of it prior and was, I think, using that bias to tell myself I could trust the video as 'some' of it lined up with my memory.
Thankfully Dave's forcing me to be more scrutinizing of the material really woke me up to the videos as a whole. I don't doubt some of the evidence they portrayed was potentially significant, but after looking more into the content, it was clear that some of it was out of context and/ or presented in a manner that was pushing a clear bias.
Nevertheless, a few of the people I showed the videos to joined up with it and was pushing them heavily. And it was too late to stop them. One moved to Florida and started a whole group around it. Dude was locked in. Zeitgeist guy did issue a corrections video on the religion part and released an edit that removed it entirely, which I found particularly interesting move. And now having found this video, I'm wondering if this isn't the reason why. And if so, I'm glad there are people out there watching this stuff and issuing corrections
Our Bible mostly is copied from ancient Sumerian texts written in an ancient language. Look up Dr. Finkle here on U-tube. He is a curator at the British Museum. And a very funny guy. You will enjoy his videos.
You are doing a valuable service for history and for humanity.
What? Were you listening? Inana was grown from a penis!
Great job on this. I love all of your debunking content.
It's rather to be called dummbunking. What he doesn't get is that none of these legendary figures where any singular person, thus they were not really ever born anyway. The more appropriate question would be what caused people to celebrate these legends? In that context try yourself on the book 'the immortality key' by Brian Murarescu!
The Christian creed is a syncretic creed of various metaphycical parts of all the religious creed that had their high priests in the Roman Empire. One Roman Emperor put them all in one location andthe Uni ordered them to negociate/invent a single creed that would become the Universal metaphysical state religion. With a single set of religious holidays, a single moral rules and a single set of religious practices regrouped in a single hierarchy with it's top leader located in Rome. So the Jesus Story was a carefully crafted syncretic combination of all the Pagan Myths that negates the rulings about pagan religious freedom of the previous emperors.
Great work! Tweeted as always, sir! Thank you.
Thank YOU!
Thanks for the interesting video. I was surprised Quetzalcoatl wasn’t mentioned since I’ve heard him compared to Jesus as well, even a depiction of him on a cross.
Interesting! I hadn't heard of that comparison.
I've heard comparisons between aspects of KuKulkan and John the Baptist, but the connection that you're suggesting seems a little far-fetched. 😉
@@OzyMandias13 it’s not my idea. I heard about it and looked online and saw about it and the image supposedly from one of the mesoamerican codices. Of Quetzalcoatl on a cross.
@@MTB214 I was totally being facetious. I'm I'm sorry if it landed with a thud. I was hoping the Emoji would serve as a better indicator. Quetzalcoatl is an Aztec god portrayed as a feathered serpent responsible for the creation of Heaven and Earth the success and failure of crops, weather, etc. He was pretty much in control of the most important things in their lives. The Mayans had A god called Kukulkan, also depicted as a feathered serpent. The Mayans focused more on their gods practical powers. Super strength, endurance. But the Mayan God is often linked closely with the Aztec god. So much so that's some postulate that they are actually the same god, passed from one civilization to the other but there's no direct evidence of that I know of.
And of course John the Baptist was Jesus's cousin. The son of Mary sister. He is regarded as a prophet of God and a saint in Christian denominations that get down like that. He was the one foresaw the coming of a messiah and said coming. He performed the baptism of Jesus and the river of Jordan. There's a lot. The crux of it is that the two are inexorably linked by religious faiths who recognize and follow those specific sets of beliefs. I get caught tripped up in word salad when it comes to talking about faith and religious beliefs. A combination of lacking the knowledge of the proper terminology to use so as not to offend anybody and a desire not to offend anybody. Anyway, I hope this lengthy, clunky analysis of the the origin of the humor that was intended to accompany these statement that I made. I hope it makes it more enjoyable for you. I often find there's nothing funnier than having to stumble on Ad nauseam through an explanation of a humorous quip. If brevity is the soul of wit, analysis is surely it's bloated carcass.
@@OzyMandias13 I didn’t even look at the emoji before. you explained that pretty well for not knowing the Christian lingo.
It's a bit frustrating to know a movie I thought was mind blowing (still is but...) is so poorly researched. I don't have time during a long movie like that to research every little detail, that would be quite the undertaking. Thanks for doing the work for us!
Regarding the influence of paganism on Christianity, I think also we need to look at the influence of pagan symbols in Jewish artefacts (e.g. graves) and also the existence of the the zodiac in synagogues. That there was a great deal of influence between religious communities over centuries is evidenced clearly. The question for us then, many centuries later, is figuring out causality, if that even can be done.
The Jesus story isn’t plagiarized as long as you ignore Sumerian and Egyptian myths of gods dying and then being resurrected/restored. Osiris/Isis, Tammuz/Inanna.
And if you ignore Greek myths of gods impregnating mortal women and producing superhuman progeny.
There is no myth that is a one for one plagiarism, but the Jesus fable does follow motifs from earlier stories.
If I had a dollar for every time a full-on God was conceived without what we mortals would see as sex... and another dollar for every friend I know who was born around the same time as another; I'd have to up my Patreon pledge hahaha. Keep up the good work David, really intriguing stuff the Parallelomania when dealing with myths. Hope to see more soon.
Jesus Loves you! ✝️❤️♾️
I was raised Christian. I was taught that it was well known Jesus wasn’t born on Dec.25 and that when the Romans converted to Christianity many people didn’t want to give up Pegan holidays. The Romans had a celebration not on Dec 25 but close to it, sometime between the 21-25, where they celebrated the birthday of some God. They had a feast and exchanged gifts and engaged in other sexual perversions as Romans did. So the early Holy Roman Church took that holiday and changed it to celebrate Jesus birthday so they could keep their celebration minus the sex acts, of course. I was told they often did things like this early on in the conversion so that people would be less resistant to the conversion if they didn’t have to completely give up familiar celebrations. I have no sources to sight and honestly don’t know how true any of this is. But it’s what I was told on the subject growing up going to private Christian school. I’d like to know if any of that is in anyway accurate??
It is partly accurate. Scholars still argue about which Roman holiday it was.
Just found your videos after just finding Zeitgeist! You are like a breath of fresh air...full of truth and humor! TY for shining the light on Parellalanomia (? Is that right?) Very interesting! ❤🙏✌️
Thank you, D!
Good job, I watched with interest. It is an important service to remind us to stick to what is actually known and not embellish the stories beyond what they are. If we don't, then they have no historical value - just entertainment or some other motive. Thanks.
Absolutely. A good historian clearly denotes the level of probability behind each claim, given the surrounding evidence.
Just be good people. We have a conscience for a reason.
I always enjoy your videos, even if I disagree with something you say I always learn something new.
I appreciate you doing this and being honest even though you already said you are not coming from a Christian defence . I am sick and I am tired of these people blatantly lying to push their own agenda and get pay offs when there are no credible sources to support the false doctrines they arrogantly splash across the internet . I am a servant of Christ who shares his gospel in the streets and while I was doing a mission trip across the country , someone brought up that ridiculous video and I really had no way to combat it with sources , but I did go back to my dwelling and look up the video and found it to be ridiculous since I was a pagan before I ever put my faith in Jesus , its tattooed all over my body , I know those claims are lies , I am just not a scholar of the topics , I was brainwashed by liars without ever experiencing a power in my life to confirm it as I have Jesus Christ .
If someone wants to believe other doctrines , wants to turn their heart from Jesus , that is their free but do not lie about my God to sell your books full of folly , I don't use lies to preach my faith and doctrine or to even speak about another persons , I will use their own book , I won't even rely on my own because it makes no sense , I will simply use their own book , and they are free to point out errors in context if I make them , but they are just lying , this has to stop , so thank you for sharing this , more of these videos are extremely important right now , WAY TOO MANY LIES are going around .
the pagan Jesus myth is nonsense , I am serving God with my entire life , we do not believe Jesus was born on December 25th or even in that season at all because the Gospels do not ever share anything to hint he was , nor do we celebrate christmas , Jeremiah 10 tells us not to celebrate these pagan rituals or go in the way of the heathen . We do not celebrate any of these holidays , and none of the stuff they are saying happened with these pagan beliefs , ever happened , and they are always using sources that came AFTER Jesus , so if any thing , they are copying Christ , but then he spins it all around and says Christ is a copy of them , FOOLISHNESS .
have a nice day , thank you for sharing , hope to see you doing more of these as I will be taking up a study on this to compile a book to combat these lies , I care about truth , and history should be based upon truth , not lies .
I can be reached at proton mail using holyfirekingdom.protonmail if you have sources for me to use against that entire zeitgeist film as I find it horrific to be aloud online with such blatant error and indoctrination .
Had never heard of this movie, but still enjoyed your two videos on it!
On the point of peasants in the Roman Empire having no way to know of the Krishna story, please do not forget that there was a lot of cross-cultural contact during the Hellenistic period in the North-West of India, which extended as far as Mathura (the city where Krishna is said to have been born). These ideas and motifs may have been transported across large areas long before the Romans.
There are definite crossovers between the legends of young Krishna and Heracles, ie suckling on Putna/Hera, the serpents in the cot etc. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that some ideas may have gone East to West as well.
On the biblical front, the baby in reeds motif most of your audience will know from Moses also shows up with Karna (abandoned brother and later nemesis of Arjuna) in the Mahabharata.
The massacre of the innocents by Herod also has parallels with the murdering of Devakis previous children (that you touched on the video). It is over a period of time and focussed on a specific mother rather than a widespread campaign across Bethlehem, but the concept of killing innocent children to try and escape the prophecy certainly seems similar to me.
Parallels do not automatically mean that one depends upon the other. There are lots of stories that include massacres, and babies playing with snakes could easily be conceived independently.
Have you actually listened through any of his videos. He addresses each point carefully and brings a lot of specialist knowledge to bear. This is what you want. He also says that he is open to new ideas and indeed that it is every academic’s dream to buck the concensus.
What did you feel that he failed to investigate thoroughly? Would you not agree that he effectively debunks a lot of the wilder claims out there?
Yeah
I have watched Zeitgeist a long time ago, and even though I often take off my critical thinking hat, I did have it on me when watching this segment. Especially the one about Dionysus, which to me sounded so strange. You see, the first time I really read about him I was told he wasn’t a god at all, but a Thracian wise man. And nothing about his life resembled that of Jesus. I would love to read the books quoted from in the Wikipedia article on him
There was definitely a god named Dionysus, (also known as Bacchus by the Romans). I remember I read a book some years ago on the mysteries of the cult of Dionysus, quite an interesting read. I believe there's an ancient Greek (or perhaps even Thracian indeed) philosopher with the same name, but I may be wrong..
The gospel of John probably got its wine magic from Dionysus. The original was cooler though, with an earthquake and wine coming up out of the ground rather than a cheap jar and water trick.
Thanks for a helpful video. You might want to add to your chapter index (table of contents): 14:51 Mithra(s)
Woah! Embarrassing he didn't know what Immaculate Conception refers to.
That scream effect scared the parallelomania out of me!!
He he he 😁😁
How much does the story of Gandalf resemble that of Jesus? They both had disciples, performed miracles, died and were resurrected. Does this mean that the story of Jesus was plagiarized from The Red Book of Westmarch. YES.
I had been waiting for this, didn't find it until just now. Thanks Dr. M
The use and meaning of the word Virgin has also changed over time.
And UNMARRIED WOMAN (idk if this applied to Men or not) WAS A VIRGIN in some uses of the word. It was either assumed no Woman had sex before marriage likely due to the traditions of consummating the union on the night after the wedding.
So even Mary, could have had sex, and still be called a Virgin if she had not yet been Married if you chose to not believe it on faith that she was a Virgin who had not yet had sex.
It seems that the Gospel of John could have been 1st, but is certainly from a different perspective from the other Gospels; also, Lazarus is the actual 'author' of this 'Gospel' as clearly it says there was a special relationship
between them ...
And it seems obvious that Luke and Matthew used Mark ....and furthermore that. Matt is full of 'myth making' ( to me ). The original Hebrew word WAS " young girl' not Virgin, and as Wm Blake commented, it would make more sense if she were a harlot than a virgin as He would 'bear the sins of the world' ....
Yet how much more if she had been raped by a Roman soldier and Joseph took her as his wife , or who knows ?
Jesus says ' call no man your Father, for your Father is in Heaven', and this teaching rings true since we hear nothing about Joseph really ( again, myth making from Matthew, going to Egypt etc ....) His "brothers" could have been the children of Joseph's first wife ....we really don't know and I don't feel there is a need to know unless one is trying to establish 'a story' that leads to Jesus as actually 'God in the flesh incarnated' which is not the 'story' Jesus was telling !!!
( just ranting a bit ....but we mix up all the 'stories' and the 'leaders' push their 'story'' full of doctrine that pushes the Golden Rule into the background ....
How long are u gonna be happy playing a harp for all Eternity ! Let's go to the World Series for a change ! ...
search for Truth !
Plagiarized, no. Remixed entirely from existing Hellenistic cultural sources? Yes.
Unfortunately, The Zeitgeist has implanted itself in the minds of many since it's debut. To the point of conspiracy level devotion to it. Expecting this to be a "leading horse to water" situation.
As Zeitgeist is pure conspiracy hysteria it is not surprising that people buying into it would delve deeper into the morass of modern conspiracy "theories".
@@Ugly_German_Truths I agree.
@@Ugly_German_Truths If it is conspiracy, why is easter always when the SUN is in Ariest? Why is jesus always called the lamb of God around that time and people eat lamb? Why is jesus called the lion of the tribes of judah? The sun is in LEO and at summer solstice it's at its strongest. How comes in reality, during the winter solstice, on the 22nd dec to 25th, the sun appears dead and at its weakest point? 25th being the "birth" where it starts raising higher and higher each time, giving more warmth and increasing the days? Funnily enough jesus is celebrated on the 25th dec. How comes, John the baptist is an obv representation of Aquarius? The sun enters aquarius, Jesus gets baptized, then JOhn goes to prison all of a sudden and you never hear of him again, he decreases. He goes to prison, aka the sun moves on leaving aquarius past the horizon, then Jesus goes into pisces, meets 2 brother fishermen, he's the fisher of men. Etc.
None of those bible stories are literal or real. The real astrology is not only real and observable, it's also natural and the planets and sky lights have an effect on us. God is real and within us as well, it's just that God doesn't work exactly how the abrahamic religions put it.
I’m so glad that Deadpool got a new Chanel!
Thank you much, for the video. I grew up in a Jewish house. Bar-mitzvah, Hebrew school and the whole thing. Converted to Christianity in my 20’s. Moved away from both religions many years later. I have spent my life reading and thinking about all things Jewish/Christian. I have a deep respect for the New Testament books. I feel they contain some of the most impactful literature ever produced.
After listening to your video, as odd as it may sound, my impression was that your arguments only solidified “Peter’s” position (you will have to forgive me. I have not seen his work or have any knowledge of him, beyond your video).
As a lifetime student of the Old and New Testaments and world religions, it appears to me that the two of you are on the same side. You are, both, asserting that the New Testament Gospels are not what they claim to be; that is stories of a Hebrew “messiah”, come to fulfill the plan of the Hebrew God. For any of us with knowledge of the Old Testament and Jewish thinking, we are all very aware that such an assertion is ridiculous.
It seems to me that this is Peter’s unspoken presupposition; that the Gospels aren’t what they claim to be. Apparently, he goes on to make connections with Greek thought. SOME OF WHICH YOU AGREE WITH, and a good bit you do not. You, even, acknowledge that there could also be early Christian contemporary connections to Greek religion. The two of you are arguing for the same thing… that the Gospels are an amalgam of religious sources. You seem to “poo-poo” the idea of religious ideas crossing borders and oceans during that timeframe, but I would wholeheartedly disagree with that notion (if I misunderstood your position on that, please forgive).
The point being; if the Gospels do not spring from Hebrew thought (which they, absolutely, do not), then they came from somewhere else. The fact that you acknowledge SOME influence from Greek thought would mean that you and Peter are saying, essentially, the same thing. While disagreeing on the details.
Dear World of Antiquity:
I fully agree with most of ( practically all) what you said.
But I would like to correct you. Mithra is not a Persian god but an Iranian. Persia is just one clan of our nation and Mithra was raised under Parthians, not Persians, and was introduced to Romans during the Parthia romano wars. The origin location of these deities goes back before the bronze age in most cases considering Zarathustra came to correct these around 7000-9000 years ago.
Also, Zaratust WAS NOT Persian! he was born in Media Atropatene! That is why To this day that land is blessed with fire god name! ( Azerbaijan)
But Mithra was most likely born on the fourth of Day of the month Day. in Iranian Calander 4 days after the shortest day which is celebrated to this day! ( most people don't know why even doing this but that is beyond my point).
25 of December is the first day after 21 of December in which day can be seen longer. ( The difference is less than a minute but you get the point)
That would explain why all sun gods ( Mithara one of them!) are associated with 25. But Christianity from a philosophical perspective is definitely a child of Mihara. Especially the god in Christianity is entirely different than the god in Judaism or Islam. And considering the time frame, It makes a lot of sense. The birthplace of Christianity was the battleground for Roman and Parthians.
But Jesus was not based on Mithra himself. I do believe that honor belongs to a Geek guy which majority of Christianity tradition comes from him. But honestly, I couldn't find any good source on that guy as of yet. ( current curiosity project)
There are no new religions my friend. It just evolves as culture does.
just compare old and new testaments. the god in these 2 is not the same creature!
I would like to add I did not watch that movie and by what you showed it has zero credibility.
Ah, my mistake. I should have been more precise in my terminology. Iran sometimes is called Persia, as if they are the same, but I realize they are not.
This is great. Thanks.
I have gotten into so many arguments with friends over that awful movie!
I am going to send them a link to this.
Very well done video. I remember when the movie first came out and a friend from work told me I had to see it. So I watch the movie. The next day I came in and told him what pseudohistory was and how it worked. Funny enough, that months Skeptic magazine had an article by Tim Callahan that when into much more detail than you did (no offence intended) Saying much the same things you have. Every year someone on my Facebook page will post that stupid meme with all those guy that parallel Jesus. And every year I complain about it. I think I might just posy your video instead.
So appreciated this vid and the great job you did debunking the supposed "evidences" supporting what has become such a popular claim amongst atheist groups that there never was a historical Yeshua. While most certainly what we today know as "Christianity" was an amalgam... several over decades, in fact... of then-commonly known Roman, Pagan and Jewish religious, mythological and cultural elements, yet none of these invalidate the existence of Yeshua or, more importantly, his original mission and message, whatever that might originally have been before that later amalgamation turning it into a religion.
There is zero contemporary evidence to suggest that Yeshua did exist.
Not only there was no person called yeshua/jesus and what not, but there was no person called Moses, Abraham and whatever names you'll come up with. Those are personifications and archtypes, not literal persons. Even the name Abraham means Father of Nations. If you'd read those man made books in their native tongue and actually see the meaning even of the names, you'd by default not take it literally.
@@SolarNeonFlare ... well, let's examine this a bit. Genesis twice states that God changed Abram's name to "Abraham" ("father of nations") for being emblematic of His promise with the man... that he would be the "Father of Nations", hence the name given him. How does this make him non-historical?
Now, as re: Moses, I too have issues with his background story and have also concluded this was derived primarily from the story of Sargon the Great who, like Moses, was also set afloat as an infant in a river, was rescued by a powerful ruler's wife, raised as that ruler's son, and later became a powerful ruler, himself. However, despite such obvious borrowings from Sargon's history, this doesn't mean Moses didn't exist... or that the Exodus didn't occur in some -- though likely greatly exaggerated -- form.
As for the historical Yeshua... there is no reasonable doubt: He was historical. I could justify this by Reason alone in pointing out the extreme unlikelihood that ... within a single generation and within the same geographic area a completely fictitious person could be propped up as real such that 100s of followers in the very areas where He was said to have lived and walked, with witnesses that could have easily stood up and said, "Nope, no such person was ever here and no such event occurred", they instead did the opposite and JOINED that movement for decades until the Roman Conquest of Jerusalem. However, rather than waste time on reasoning that would simply be overlooked or ignored... let's go straight to the greatest documented evidence for Yeshua's historical existence: The writings less than 100 years later of famous Roman Senator and noted historian, Tacitus.
It was Tacitus who wrote in 116 CE:
" Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular." -- "Annals"; Tacitus (116 CE)
And regarding the credibility of Tacitus' report...
"Although its authenticity has sometimes been questioned, most scholars hold the passage to be authentic.[41][42][43] William L. Portier has stated that the consistency in the references by Tacitus, Josephus and the letters to Emperor Trajan by Pliny the Younger reaffirm the validity of all three accounts.[44] Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to be of historical value as an independent Roman source about early Christianity that is in unison with other historical records.[5][6][7][44]"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Jesus
Now, think... given Tacitus was not only a noted historian but also a full Roman Senator with full access to Rome's records... and additionally how much Tacitus obviously hated Christianity, calling it "a class hated for its abominations", a "mischievous superstition" and an "evil", being additionally "hideous and shameful" ... if Tacitus had found ANY evidence for Jesus/Yeshua as NOT historical and thus... a hoax... instead of VERIFYING Jesus' existence and Rome's direct complicity in His death, Tacitus would have LOUDLY and justly proclaimed it all a complete and total FRAUD. That he did the opposite in admitting Rome's direct responsibility for and participation in Yeshua's death proves he concluded Him to be historical.
Thus, beyond any reasonable doubt... Yeshua was historical.
@@FatherVampire no he wasn't. It's all astrology. He's the representation of the sun going through the zodiac signs annually. Why do christians repeat the same rituals annually? Have been doing it for the past 2k years awaiting the so called "apocalypse"? Because they follow something natural as how the sun annually moves in cycles and causes seasons and has an effect on us due to its position towards the other lights in the sky. It's all stories portraying to the sun's adventure in the sky, kinda liek how you'd try to explain oxygen and attribute it a story. But 99% of christians have no idea, they take the stories literally and worship some made up man. Take note, I am not denying God, God's more real and works way better than those religions portray God as. God is also within us. Not to mention the old testament God is so different from the new testament that there's no link there, especially if you take it literally, it makes even less sense.
Salvation is personal and doesn't come from outside, those bible stories are allegories and mind sciences. There's nothing literal. Back then unnatural stuff seemed to happen all the time, but not ever since? Maybe it's because those stories are not written to be taken literally, which they obviously are not. It's all mythology.
On easter, christians eat lamb and the "son of God" is called the Lamb of God, coincides with the SUN in the sky being in ARIES each time this occurs. How fascinating no? I could go on and on but you'll just throw more non sense, like how people try and argue about "christ's skin color" while in reality they're so far off any path of truth since they first of all don't see through the story, they not only take it literally but went as far as to argue about the skin color. Talk about wrong turns.
Also : Supposedly, each religious person thinks his religion is right, same with christians, God again doesn't work like that, you think you're above others and others go to hell, you think you're saved, muslims think they're above others and so on, others go to hell, further evidence that God has nothing to do with religions, those are just spiritual paths that mostly chain you to certain mind programs, in the end holding you still instead of progressing. If you take a good christian and a good muslim, lived their lives well, on the judgement day, what will God do? Oh you've been a good christian, you've believed in the cross myth, you go to heaven. Ohh you've been a good person all your life but you're a muslim, you didn't believe in my myth son and cross, you got to hell. If you don't see the error in that then you got work to do on how God works because that's far from it.
Also if you are saved and such, why you can still live a bad life from all aspects while other religions prosper or people? In the end being close to no difference between you and them? Don't blame it on the scape goat satan please. It's all in the mind, it's what you manifest with your connection to God which is within, if you think you're a sinner and kneel all your life you'll just attract that, you do it to yourself.
@@bengray5013 ... Well, of course not. He didn't live in contemporary times; He lived 2,000 years ago. There is also zero contemporary evidence for the existence of Alexander the Great and many other ancient figures. Doesn't mean they didn't exist.
I'm excited about these zeitgeist videos. Almost became a conspiracy theorist because of it. Luckily I engaged in critical thinking and fact checking.
I remember a comment on a zeitgeist video where someone said that they fact-checked the film's claims, and find out that the claims were false. Which someone replied to the comment saying that the person is lying to themselves.
@@misterauctor7353 Somethings never change and/or only get worse....
I do remember fact checking this what a lot of work and hard and obscure info was needed.
@@mickdipiano8768 That is what is so great about this channel. Fact checking this kinds of claims is difficult and time consuming, especially for the non-expert. So having a trained academic do this and put if on TH-cam is really important.
@@willmosse3684 and then he met me
It’s obvious that the story’s don’t match up 100%, for me personally there are too many similarities not just with Jesus but so many other story’s in the bible.
It’s like copying someone’s story and then saying yeah but you wrote beach and I wrote ocean. The simple fact that these same stories were told thousands of years before. The man called himself “ the truth “ the savior and born on dec 25th celebrated on Sunday etc etc. should be enough evidence. Unless you’re in denial.
People don't want to see the syncretism because, like you said, they are in denial. The truth is, almost every "miracle" (multiplying food, raising from the dead, virgin birth, restoring sight, walking on water, etc, etc) from the Abrahamic religions was syncretized from something earlier. See: Horus, Mithra, Krishna, Dionysus, etc.
@@SugarWitchDaddyBible?
17:07 "going to a dinner party with someone means theyre the same person as you" is certainly a take on JPs part.
I was waiting for this...great job
I loved when i started with your videos, debunking many far-fetched things shown in Hinduism today (yes Me being a Hindu do like logical criticism even if it is related to us)..
But gradually i found this guy never debunking the entire structure of absolute fuckery - abhramic religions and never criticising their ridiculous dogmas with his so called logically explanation which he easily does for everything Hinduism or Paganism. The desert pest of this world needs some debunking, Mr. Professor !!
There are so many channels that do that already. I like to cover topics that are harder to find. But don't worry. I will get to it eventually.
@@WorldofAntiquity Don't take it negatively, professor. I have high respect for your research. I am just saying in order to instill in us viewers the sense that you are unbiased in your viewpoints, you should atleast do one or two videos debunking abhramic religion far-fetched claims.
@@maximumtate9580 If you find a pseudohistorical video that you would like me to debunk, just let me know the channel and title.
I know Zeitgeist was recommended to me many times, but I never sat down to watch the movie. I know Bill Maher's Religulous movie (2008) also makes a lot of these claims you cover, so I wonder if he borrowed ideas from this movie.
It's around the right time for him to have done so.
Yes, Religulous made similar false claims from the same source. Mainly Acharya S.
Thank you for this great exploration! I have a question that I would love to see addressed.
Euripedes' play "The Bacchae" premiered around 400 (405? 410?) BCE; it provides a variant of the myth of Dionysius (Roman name Bacchus). He is one of the (many) sons of the primary god (Zeus) and his sacrament is wine. He's questioned by the local authority (his cousin Pentheus) who is confused by the disguised god's enigmatic responses. After an imprisonment of a few hours (I think the play actually says 3) Bacchus breaks free from prison ... and the rest is a bloodthirsty revenge tale that would have made Charles Bronson blush.
So ... those are the few parallels I've noticed - and the story does pre-date Christianity by centuries. However, I can't imagine early Christians "xeroxing" the story for their own theological ends; is it possible, rather, that some of the legend's features were simply prevalent in a number of mythologies circulating around the first century CE? For example, wine as a sacrament seems pretty basic.
1)The Iranic Mithra which dates way back before Christianity was born of the Virgin Anahita who was a goddess of nobility, water, and so on,
2)was in fact born on Dec 25th the longest night of the year which still is celebrated in Iran and it is called "Yalda"
3) specific tradition back in the day was "Mehr Parasti" literal meaning =worshiping of kindness, in which the one would immerse oneself in water come out and say I'm yet again born, and he would become a "Mehr Salek" literal meaning kindness seeker
4) one of the highest honors in this religion was called "Pedar"=Father who gave out gifts on Yalda nights and wore a very long red Cape symbolizing the length of "Yalda" night.
5)in Mithraism, it is told that Mithra is still alive since its a creator and basically Immortal
6)According to the narratives, the statues and inscriptions left behind when Mitra is born are praised by the shepherds
7)When Mitra reached the end of his duties in the world. "Baghmaz" or the assembly held a feast and a holy "Soor" and spent the last "Soor" or dinner with his companions and then ascended to the sky to join "Ormuzd".
They're much more details to the religion but one might enjoy doing their own research.
sorry it's super long, peace out
Thanks for continuing to debunk these scavenging sophists, they only get away with this due to the general publics' ignorance of the subject in question, and you are doing a lot to decrease that that.
Great episode as usual!!
Many of these subjects require intense study to properly understand. The people capable of distilling that knowledge for the average reader/viewer are fewer than the enthusiastic folks who get a couple of clues and claim the butler did it in the kitchen with a carving knife when it was really the maid absconding with the silver.
but that's just his opinion. others say other things. look up Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy, and also Joseph Atwill and Tom Harpur. Also see "The Christ Conspiracy" by Acharya S. And of course, Gerald Massey.
I watched Zeitgeist in March 2020, as the pandemic came to my neighborhood. Of the 6+ hours I remember little with any detail. The problem was that I found some parts compelling and believable, and others ridiculous. Investing that much time I wanted to feel that I had gained something of value. I guess finding out that it was just entertainment is some type of learning.
Great work, I enjoy your stuff
In your professional opinion would you consider Euripides Bacchae being used in John or Josephus being used in Luke parallelomania?
My bad, just got to your part on Dionysus 😅
Haven’t watched zeitgeist in years (thankfully) 😂
Jesus isn't based on one man or one legend, he is an amalgam of different archetypes and figures and religions.
So many people, including the highly intelligent Stephen Fry, thought _Zeitgeist_ was a fantastic movie and 100% correct. What a shock when they discovered it was a great big pile of cack.
{:-:-:}
We're dealing with a guy who claimed Horizon came from Horis is Risen.
Any opinions on geo widengren who popularized the myth that mytras was zoroastrian jesus? I noticed a book by george minois (about the history of hells) cites him (very poorly,no page or book is mentioned, just the name) before literally saying mitras is born on december 25th, will save everyone, etc
Great video.
I've heard and read some rather good research casting doubt on the pagan connection of the birth of Jesus being celebrated on the 25th December in Western Christianity. My skepticism of this connection started with the celebration date in Easten Christianity/Eastern Empire.
Secondly...I hate the confusion of the immaculate conception and virgin birth when people discuss Christianity. The immaculate conception refers to Mary's conception, not the virginal birth of Jesus.
Interesting vid on the date thing th-cam.com/video/3DHbOpS-N0c/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for sharing!
Thank you so much for making this video. I really started doubting and you helped me tremendously
What are your credentials sir, just curious to whom I am getting my information
I have a Ph.D. in Ancient History, but you should be focusing on the evidence.
@@WorldofAntiquityalmost done with the video, and you havent given any evidence other than "just because theres similarities doesnt mean theyre similar..."
Credentials matter. Just taking the word of some guy on youtube in a suit is absolutely ignorant. If you have any sort of credentials, you should respect that...
@@Rhaenarys Wait. Someone makes a movie with baseless claims. Another guy shows the claims have no support, and you think the second guy is at fault? The second guy doesn't have his own theory. He is just examining the claims of the first guy!
Credentials matter? Well, the first guy has no credentials, and the second has a Ph.D. in ancient history.
@@WorldofAntiquity yea...you didnt prove anything. All you did was claim just because things are similar doesnt make them similar. Go gaslight someone else, not working here. You didnt prove anything, not even that you have credentials. The fact you think just your degree is all that is asked for just kind of shows youre more likely a fake than the real thing.
For real. What kind of intellect uses that as their excuse? " duh i have a degree! He doesnt!" Wheres your proof he doesnt have a degree? And for real...where is your degree from?
For real dude, do better. And lose the defensive attitude when people dont just jump to be guillable at taking your word. Youre words are as good as dude making the movie. So...step off that pedestal that gave you that delusion that makes you think your word is somehow "God"...pun intended, as this isnt the first questionable video of yours, and it appears you def have an agenda to push...