The 'really' bad thing about this Zeitgeist Horus thing is that it's so well done! It hooked me the first I saw it. I bought completely into it until I found Richard Carrier on TH-cam, who said, "Nope! Not true! And here's why..." and that began my education, as I learned to check even Carrier's claims. Careful study requires a lot of work. Don't take one person's word for anything.
Here, Carrier admitting on video he has no interest in studying Astrotheology and has never read a single book of Acharya's - textbook intellectual dishonesty and far too many of you are buying it, which is as bad as Christian apologists being dishonest: In a 2014 video, Nuskeptix "Christ Myth Theory" Video Chat, Carrier admits (at 53-54 minutes) he has no interest in pursuing or investigating astrotheology as he finds it "dull," which is basically an admission that Carrier has never studied the subject and has no interest in doing so, therefore, Carrier is not qualified to comment on it with any authority or competence whatsoever. Carrier says he "could never write a book on the subject" (ain't that the truth!). Carrier is simply not a reliable or credible source on the subject of astrotheology or Acharya's work and he needs to be called out on it by others. I appreciate Carrier's work but on the subject of Astrotheology he is not a reliable trustworthy source - sorry, get over it. Read Murdock's "Christ in Egypt" and "Did Moses Exist?" for yourself. Richard Carrier certainly hasn't. So, Carrier and those he has influenced is actually helping to keep this information buried again, which makes Carrier the worst possible representative for mythicism. "I find it undeniable that many of the epic heroes and ancient patriarchs and matriarchs of the Old Testament were personified stars, planets, and constellations." - Dr. Robert Price, Biblical Scholar with two Ph.D's "Your scholarship is relentless! ...the research conducted by D.M. Murdock concerning the myth of Jesus Christ is certainly both valuable and worthy of consideration." - Dr. Ken Feder, Professor of Archaeology ; )
Checking historical claims with facts is hard work. That's probably why many people don't bother to do it. They know that hardly anyone will, so they just go with it and make whatever claims they feel like making. I'll admit that I don't want to do all of that work, but I also won't just accept whatever claims I hear. The fact that you are willing to work so hard to clarify things is extremely helpful! Thank you for that!
so just because he responds saying things then he is right instead? everyone is just saying things and everyone is just believing. go do it yourself. I had to stop listening as soon as he said that he didn't bother to have a conversation with peter. Did you completely exhaust yourself in your research, I don't just blindly believe peter, what he says is believable and there may be items that are not entirely true that are attempting to be held up by other items that are. before I listen to you, subscribe or anything how about you post an interview with peter confronting the issues that you think you found, post that one on the tube and I'll be front and center. but dont just do what you are accusing peter of doing you have demoted yourself with this act. if you have facts then state them, show your line of proof, you cant just say something is not true, or " I cant seem to find anything to support this case so it has to be false" THAT IS NOT TRUTH, FACT OR ANYTHING OTHER" If you havent found anything on the zodiac maybe you havent looked hard enough, dont just write it off, and the rest of you dont just follow. bad journalism.
@@Ksys47 If anything, this video is quite gentle in its criticism of Peter. I notice that you are just arguing by assertion and not citing any primary sources. Question your own assumptions please.
I found it really interesting, but then a Japanese speaker pointed out that the "Christ-like" Japanese character had a name that literally cannot be pronounced in Japanese.
If you found the messiahs comparisons interesting, you might want to read The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Its the same Jungian interpretation of religion and myth. Or read Jung himself, if you have the stomach for the more elitist writing of his day, when academia wasn't popular and wasn't meant for the plebs.
What's funny is that the source I'm pretty sure they used (Acharaya S) explains that Beddru is supposed to represent the Buddha. But that means the Buddha is on her list 3 times. It's also weird because the Buddha was born in India. It's like the Anglican Church saying they believe in the "Jesus of England." They also list the "Mikado of the Sintoos" which I think is a bastardization of the Mikado of the Shintos. But the mikado is the Emperor, and as far as I know, there was never a Jesus Emperor. None of them was crucified, died and resurrected. One of them (Emperor Sutoku) came back as one of the three most powerful demons of Japan, but that's about it.
Eh it depends on tradition, these myths existed for thousands of years and their origin stories and family relations had even more conflicting canons than any of the Marvel super heroes. SOMETIMES, Set is Horus' brother. In, I guess, Wolverine comic origin, as opposed to X-Men version of Egyptian mythology (not joking just pointing out example with modern myths).
the best way to understand zeitgesit as a movie is to look into the sources. joseph references Acharya S (real name: DM Murdock) for much of the mythological section, which thankfully people were quick to notice from joseph's sources from way back in 2007. she makes some strange extensions of Gerald Massey's literature (primary source for Murdock) which many knew weren't founded in historical fact. pretty unfortunate to have 1/3 of your entire movie, which was the most fun to watch, end up being entirely fiction. oh well.
Hi Dr. Miano. When I found your channel about a year ago, I was struggling with what to do with myself academically. I had always been in love with ancient history, but knew next to nothing about it. However, thanks to you, and so many other TH-cam historians, many of which I learned of through your collaborations with them, I believe I have decided on what I wish to pursue in terms of my education. In short, thank you for doing what you do, and thank you for teaching me.
Wow, I am so happy to hear that! One of the goals of this channel is to encourage people in that way, so this is fantastic. Best wishes on your academic path!
This kind of cringy, conspiratorial nonsense was _everywhere_ among "anti-establishment" circles in the early 2000s and there was basically no pushback against it. Thank God people don't take that kind of conspiracism seriously anymore haha... oh wait.
Hi, I just discovered your channel and wanted to say I really appreciate all your hard work. I always appreciate it when scholars make their knowledge and their research skills available to public that are outside academia.
Thank you SO much for this! I watched the first part of the Zeitgeist movie recently and I didn't have the time to fact check it. It seemed incredible that I hadn't heard the information before so I wasn't sure whether it was true. I'm sure you've saved me from going down a dead end path. I hope you will continue your investigations into the movie's other claims. I'm looking forward to your revelations!
As I can appreciate the gentleman and his points of view, one has to understand the idea of what he has been selected to do. Which is cast doubt. Zeitgeist did that! This gentleman has done that against Zeitgeist. The question I would ask, is why? Totally factual or not, Zeitgeist has is asking questions, and though not TOTALLY accurate, neither is the man in this video. See, propaganda literally works both ways. One to debunk- the other the encourage truth. The fact remains that Zeitgeist drew some very interesting parallels and truth about a real Jesus, a made up Jesus, the Sun, the origin of what is believed by Christians, why that is, how we got here, and ultimately is our messiah The Sun of God, a Sun God, and/or a method of control. If Jesus is supposed to be real, it bothers me that his STORY can be questioned in such a way that doubt can be raised. We shouldn’t need this guy having to DEFEND the legitimacy. There should be no doubt to truth on this matter. Both situations raise even bigger questions…
"See the Golden Bough, Frazer" - well it's certainly a fascinating book but not one I've heard anyone this century cite as a source about anything other than how Frazer and his contemporaries thought
So keen to see a video breaking this movie down!! I watched it when I was 13 or 14 and it TOTALLY got me. But since I was studying history in high school, I chose the Jesus myth as a topic for a major essay when I was 15, and while doing my own research discovered how badly constructed this movie's evidence was. That was 13 years ago, a good early lesson for me about evaluating sources, the experience had a pretty major impact on the way I assessed information from then on. But, while I had a general distrust of this movie, I never dived into specific claims in general, and it's fascinating to actually examine what form they really take.
I wish, like others, this video had been available 10 years ago. Thank you for helping dispel pseudohistorical nonsense with facts. Agitprop is the perfect label for the movie. Proud Patreon supporter 👍
@@ongobongo8333 Don't keep wasting your time here. Your views and the movie are both clearly recognized as wrong. Try going to where the gullible set goes. To Brightside, or 1 of the Annunaki channels. You'll get a better reception there. BTW, you do realize I hope that even those guys don't believe a word of it, right? And that they only spout that nonsense because it's profitable. You have been had, and you should be really embarrassed by it!
This channel is awesome, I was going in a spiral watching all the alt history - aryan - ancient civ videos and rethinking everything but this channel single handedly saved me from the slump.
Peter: "Mythologically speaking, the sun is always born of a virgin, from the dawn, astrotheologically speaking." Amaterasu: "Am I a joke to you?" But no, seriously, from that guy's emails? It's kind of astonishing to see the motivated reasoning put forth so brazenly. Most propaganists I've seen at least try to _hide_ that they're appropriating accidentally or deliberately misunderstood mythologies for their own purposes.
This is a blast from the past, baby’s first deconstruction before I actually went through real grown up deconstruction- I think even back then I knew deep down it was whack, but I was ravenous for anything to break my world view at 14- and it did and I became utterly insufferable for years lol One of the few things in my past I would happily trade for an opened bag of week old skittles
Excellent video. I remember watching this back in the day (also when it was still WIP) and l remember there was a part where the narrator mentions that Quetzalcoatl was coincidentally born the 24th of December. From that moment on l realized that if they lied about that “fact” (which l knew was a lie) then what else had they lied about? I had to stop watching after that. Glad to see you’re going even deeper with this :)
It's just shocking to me that the maker of Zietgeist was even able to make 1 movie, but he has gotten away with making numerous sequels too! I don't even know how many, 3 or 4 of them! It's just so unbelievable that people dare to publicly lie and lie and lie. But then in this world where Trump and his butt kissing allies have gotten away with the biggest crime wave in history, next only to his buddy Putin, and been allowed to do it by the Biden and Garland, I guess nothing should surprise me. It's 2 sides to the same coin. There once was a time when you weren't allowed to lie on tv. Everyone agreed on what a lie is, and that it's wrong to do it. Now they all agree that profit is king and nothing else matters, especially not justice.
@@cattymajiv I remember correcting friends on social media on bad history with proof, and they later reposted same stuff and I was like "I already explained to you it's not like that" and got an answer "I seen people claim both ways", EUGH!
I dunno bro. I think this "debunk" actually did more to convince me they were onto something. I began looking into this when I was in seminary school and almost got myself kicked out of the program for refusing to submit an entirely new paper about this very subject. And yes, I was young and trying to be edgy, but I came to nearly half of these conclusions and associations on my own about 7 years before zeitgeist was a thing. I am going to go watch it now, and if I think of it I'll report back. Specifically within the context of the culture as we know it, separating the penis in stories was, in fact allegory to ensure no "sin" was upon the woman that was impregnated. I can't think of sources off the top of my head while phoneposting, but I'll try and remember to come reply here, in case anyone is interested with sources after I have a little bit to dust off that book shelf. Zeigeist is definitely reaching for associations, but they are there. Your criticism about "Mare" is also slightly pedantic to be fair. If you were to challenge me to come up with better evidence for a word origin, like the English word "gravy" I might say it is "known" that the French had a word for kitchen utensils that were the same sounds, and read, at least similarly: gravé, graué etc. But I couldn't point you to a specific origin for it. Some things are "known" or accepted in the parlance of conversational topics and I think their association is as good as any I can come up with before dictionaries were a thing.
I have a really close family member that started with this shit and over the years started to change weirdly qnd relate everything with conspiracies to the point it was hard to talk even about clothing styles, we don't talk anymore...
I sympathize with you. The only good friend I have in this city is someone I cannot watch tv, Netflix, or TH-cam with, for the same reasons. It's like the old person disappeared. I am positive that it's coming from the weird church he belongs too. I forget the name. They're all weird, but this one seems worse than average. Some American protestant cult-like church. None of those are mainstream here in Canada. But then again, he was formerly a Catholic which is just as bad, and cult-like. IMHO.
A guy ive known for decades devolved into the same thing. It started out small but when covid and Q-Anon happened it was like a hole developed beneath him and he was sucked into a pit of conspiratorial hell. He told us for a year "its coming! its coming! The blackout! 10 days of a blackout!" and when these things never happen he changes the goalposts and relates it to something else. He literally believes every conspiracy he comes across now. Even flat earth. He believes there's a firmament surrounding the earth and the sun, moon and stars are all inside of it. When I asked him why no single human being out of 8 billion people has traveled to the end of the earth and documented this so called force field firmament and put it on TH-cam, he argued every TH-cam video online is propaganda. Every single one. My last question was buddy..."how do you think that is even remotely possible to pull off and how has not one single person ever become whistleblower and leaked valid evidence?" Thats when he started getting mad and I walked away. Last interaction we had. Starting to give me schizophrenia vibes, honestly.
@@cattymajiv I think a lot of folks that have minor schizophrenic tendencies are now being gaslit from every direction and its amplifying their previously minuscule symptoms. Only exaggerating their paranoia and anxiety. With TH-cam and Tiktok especially they're fed these conspiracies in a terrifying and easy way. They think they're doing the right thing talking to everyone about it like some kind of savior complex but they dont realize how crazy they look and what its doing to their mind.
Thank you very much for this video!!!! When I first watched Zeitgeist I loved the first part and wished somebody made a whole documentary on this topic...
Your useful program notes, links and transcripts make your well researched presentations a great resource for continued exploration of each topic. This channel deserves a much larger audience. Count me in for more.
A very informative debunking of some of these inaccuracies regarding links between ancient Egyptian beliefs and Christianity. Many of these misrepresentations have been popularised in writings by Freemasons and followers of modern 'mystery religions', such as Manly P Hall's "Freemasonry of the Ancient Egyptians", "That Old-Time Religion" by Jordan Maxwell (a Theosophist), among other such works. These writers/groups have a clear and stated agenda against the popular religions of the world, Christianity especially since they see it as a perversion of 'the mysteries' speaking in a modern understanding of the term (i.e. the beliefs of Freemason groups and other secret societies). However there are some compelling similarities between certain aspects of the Bible and older traditions from the Egyptians as well as other groups from around the Levant, including the fact Jesus is sometimes referred to as "The Amen".
I liked "This is the sun", accompanied by footage of the sun. It's like starting your essay with "Since the beginning of time, there has been the sun, and here is a picture of it." It appealed to my weird sense of humour.
Immaculate conception does not mean virgin birth. Immaculate Conception, is Roman Catholic dogma asserting that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was preserved free from the effects of the sin of Adam (usually referred to as “original sin”) from the first instant of her conception. Unless one was Roman Catholic a lay person wouldn’t grasp that concept. Although I suspect most Roman Catholics don’t really understand the concept.
Geez, I remember this movie; I was way less literate on religion and ancient history at the time, so I actually bought into it at the time too. The funny thing is that if he wanted to give links between older religions and historical contemporaries or predecessors, there are some links he could point to in the old testament. Scholars have made various claims about figures in genesis being linked to myths from Sumer. The Noah flood story has an equivalent, right down to similar birds being sent out. Of the JEPD theory, the P seems influenced by babylonian mythology--with the creation myth that P presents being that the entire world was water and god separates the water above from the water below, and then when he wants to flood the world opens up a hole in the "firmament". (J provides a different creation myth and different noah story). There's just a contextless mention of the tree of life in the garden of eden along with the tree of knowledge. There's a weird passage about Nephillim coming down and impregnating women who gave birth to demigods who become the heroes of the day (never mentioned before or after in the canonical bible). The books of the bible will quote each other, and sometimes they quote books that are no longer in the bible (like "the book of battles of YHWH"). Comparing the mythological part of the bible to other myths in the area suggest some of the myths were borrowed from older traditions in the middle east. And even reading the old testament itself, it occasionally references older works, occasionally has moments where the old testament seems to say "okay, you can have a little bit of polytheism just this once". Later parts of the old testament (And Christianity of course) seem to show signs of influence from Zoroastrianism with struggles between good deity figures and evil deity figures. These would be after the Persian occupation, of course. If he wanted to make the case that Christianity and Judaism were influenced by older religions, yes, of course they were! There were also coins of Emperor Nero with the catchprhase "divine son" or "son of god", though if memory serves I think he actually points that out later in the film. Just...there's no whole cloth copying of an existing myth. Even the Sumerian myths and Babylonian myths that scholars are convinced influenced the old testament have a whole bunch of differences when you actually hear them.
I think he probably wanted to have something different to say, so he resurrected some old ideas he ran across, not realizing they were largely baseless.
Yhwh..a symbol or insignia.he is astronauts ....like our astronauts NASA it's symbol insignia.....our human ancestors is illiterate at that time.....they don't know it insignia.....so they write yhwh....thanks sorry my grammar...
@@WorldofAntiquity No. You're being overly kind. He realized. He just knew that enough people didn't know and wouldn't bother to dig in to find out. Thank you for doing exactly that. Him, and his "movies", have done long-lasting harm to the literal zeitgeist we're living in.
@@THE-X-Force The religion and myth stuff that people see mistakes in wasn't the main goal of the movie, it starts with 9/11 conspiracies, segues into Moon Landing denial and ends with a whole chapter on what I MANY years later learned is "sovereign citizen" crap. It had interviews with people who didn't pay taxes for years and I couldn't for the life of me figure out what Set and Horus being not even similar to Cain with Abel story having to do with tax avoidance.
This channel needs more exposure. Great video. I remember back in the day when i first watched Zeitgeist.. i fell for it at first. Later on looking a lot more into it i realized what a piece of crap it really was
An additional note: the filmmaker refers to Horus as "prodigal". He means to say PRODIGIOUS. Prodigal comes from a Latin word meaning "wasteful, lavish".
Free associations. Prodigal Son is a parable is in the Bible, literally told by Jesus, and author tried to link as many Jesus-related terms to Horus despite the entire story being about the guy who squandered his part of inheritance on blackjack and hookers and then returned and dad threw a feast for him much larger than he did for the always good son.
Great video as always, Dr. Miano! The fact that so much pseudohistory and pseudoarchaeology comes from people interested in symbolism and mythology - on a very distorted comprehension of such things, actually - really makes me think. Looks like there are deeper cultural trends at work. Do you know of any academic book/study that delves into the relationship between esoterism, conspiracy theories and fringe theories about our past?
It's often difficult to engage with people who believe in that garbage, because often they are not bad people, but men/woman who are sincere in their quest for knowledge. But some of the things they fall for are so stupid it's difficult to be cordial about it, lol.
“Light of the world” Yes, the literal light of the world is the Sun, but the NT authors also likely realized that in Genesis 1:3, Elohim created light before the sun, so in context, “light” could refer to G1:3, the sun, or it may be a vague reference to illumination of the supposed truths.
I was like 15 when this came out so when I saw it through my young eyes I took some things away from it and the Christianity/Religion part always flew by me a bit more. This video is helping a lot with those missing pieces and I'm only ten minutes in!
when I was in cultural anthropology courses, many anthropologists simply don't bother with the history of other countries and cared more about imposing their own idea (usually justifying their borderline conspiracies) and call it an "interpretation"
When i first saw the Zeitgeist movie about 10 years ago, I already understood, that Joseph was making generalizations about Jesus being a sun god, as I knew full well, that Re was the sun god, not Horus. It's really a pity he did not listen to people like Dr. Miano. I think the point Joseph tried to make, that the bible borrowed largely from other religious sources could have been made without all the false information. As I understand, the parallels particularly between Mithras and Jesus are very striking. And the whole idea of the bright Star leading three kings as representing Sirius and the belt of Orion is also very striking, which is why it stuck with me. So these parallels exist, but another not mistake but intentional decision that Joseph made was to use these parallels to basically dismiss all religious texts as basically just codified astronomical information, to achieve one of his main goals to dismiss religion and the spiritual in general. And this is were he loses all credibility and reveals himself as more propagandist than researcher. This also explains why he would not take advice on the accuracy, because it didn't suit him. A bad decision indeed, because it can never work to uncover one group of people's lies (in his case the so-called elite) by perpetrating or perpetuating other lies. And this is where the whole Zeitgeist-idea fails, a lack of sincerity and humility.
When I first viewed Zeitgeist back in 2008 or so, I'll admit I was captivated and awestruck. Granted, I was 16 and highly impressionable and already questioning much about Christianity and flirting with the idea of Atheism. So easily, that section appealed to me without much thought as to what it was based in. Now looking back, and having someone such as yourself point out all the holes in the religion section, it does have alot of vague and sort of baseless/sourceless claims. Overall the execution could have been more precise with different sourced material thays more credible and accurate. However, the sentiment or general theme I believe Joseph was attempting to get across about religion being adapted and mistranslated and greedy is something I do agree with. Especially when he adds the clips from George Carlin's stand up. Just was sort of sloppy and missed the mark. The 9/11 part and the American government was pretty thought provoking in my personal opinion. Definitely opened up a dialogue on that subject that previously wasn't being discussed amongst my peers or in my small community in Ceres California. It definitely pointed me to the rabbit hole that's for sure. Another aspect to it that appealed to me very much so, and is something I still and will always hold as a very strong conviction, and that is question everything, because not everything is quite as it seems or is as it's portrayed or presented to us.
Good video. I remember watching Zeitgeist and being totally persuaded by it around 2008. It took me a few years to come to my senses. If you are interested. Peter Joseph did not come up with this stuff himself. He simply used the research of a Jordan Maxwell. I think Maxwell wrote about this in the book "That Old Time Religion". I believe Jordan Maxwell based his ideas on the works of obscurist/symbologist Manly P. Hall
The birth of Horus the child was believed to be during the Renenutet festivity, in the beginning of the Egyptian month of Pachons that goes between March 27th and April 25th.
So even the one thing that could be similar, with a stretch, is not... I say we shouldn't use Greek retelling as Egyptian stories as canon. They're fanfics.
10:20 Writing this before seeing your response to test myself: as a kid from _children's_ pop science books, I learned that Horus is the god of SKY, not just sun, the sun gods were Amun and Ra (or Re), later combined into Amun-Ra... Set was NOT a god of darkness, at all. He was god of dry sandy wind. Very specific to region deity, which wouldn't really work outside of desert. He also wasn't always seen as evil, as Seti and Ramesses dynasty worshiped him as their main deity. It's such a streeeeeetch, almost as if they wanted to claim common dichotomy of light vs dark AND a tie to Egypt as it's popular, and managed to miss that there's Ra defeating Apep the snake (anyone who played Assassin's Creed Origins would know) and raising the sky chariot every dawn that would fit way more, but they went with Horus vs Set because they played Tomb Raider 4 or something... Nah, they wanted to make a Cain/Abel parallel, which also wouldn't work (they aren't even brothers), later. P.S. I specifically quoted non-academic stuff but things a CHILD would know, for example, you go into Duat and see the giant skeleton of Apep in Assassin's Creed, a game series that never claimed great historical accuracy but the guys like Peter Joseph don't even pass the _videogame_ level of knowledge on Egyptian myths. Or children's book level of cursory knowledge on ancient Egypt... Did he even watch the Mummy? :3
Another major problem with the zeitgeist proposed parallels between Horus and Jesus is that obviously Horus wasn’t thought to be crucified because crucifixion hadn’t even been invented yet. Horus was worshipped between 6000-3000BC and crucifixion was created by Persians around 400BC. Irregardless, you did a terrific job with your breakdown. I am so appreciative for these videos that you do on ancient history myths. It’s so refreshing to have an academic on TH-cam dispel many of these crazy, outlandish, and unfounded claims that unfortunately fool so many. Thank you and keep up the excellent work!
Ironically you used the word fool. The astrological crucifixion in in the constellation of Orion which is attached to the Winter Triangle (skull hill). Orion is the constellation that represents Osiris. So, Horus is associated with this constellation by his father. Note the Hebrew word for Orion is Kissel which means fool. As a result, The Beatles song "Fool (Orion) on the Hill (Winter Triangle)" is parody of the crucifixion. In addition, Isis is concerned that Horus will be stung by the Scorpion. Scorpio is opposite of Orion, thus they are in opposition. Scorpio is the backstabber and the betrayer, Set. Set is combination of Scorpio, Lupus (wolf/jackel) and Hercules. So the Cross, Orion, existed long before crucifixion was invented. Here is how Psalm 22 is about Orion. Orion is surrounded by the Dog stars Sirius and Procyon Orion is surrounded by the bull Taurus Orion is poured out like water because he is under the Milky Way Orion takes the shape of a sword/cross, thus wants to be free of the sword. So the claims are not crazy, outlandish, or unfounded. Most people, because of bias, can't understand these things even when someone explains it to them.
I remember seeing this video when it first came out and my bullshit meter was going off , not in the detail you have given I am a layman and student , but that list was setting of my inner alarm system , I am Jungian and go along with the archetypal imagery and themes many of them repeating in different forms or themes in different groups cultures , I tend to look at them psychologically interesting to see how the ancients structured their thinking ,speech , and cultural developments and transformations , the zeitgeist guy has quite obvious neo pagan BIAS
Another great video. I bought into Zeitgeist when I saw it on you tube. I am happy that I have better information from an academic. So many kids get their world view and belief from movies and you tube. At least they have an alternative now, but I don’t think they will find it. They aren’t smart. I say that about myself at that age as well.
I have to really wonder why the generations after mine are so gullible. Virtually nobody of my age, 62, or a bit older, would ever have been taken in by that stuff. But then again, the people who are just a little older than us were completely hoodwinked by the Christian churches. And many more, in the US anyway, by televangelists. So maybe it's not so unusual a phenomenon. I guess it's always been going on, so maybe it's just today's version of the gullible being sucked in. I don't know. I found it very distressing back then, and I still do now. Why can people not see it when they are so clearly being lied to for profit? I wish I knew.
The "God's Sun" and "Meri" puns should immediately disqualify this as a serious piece of historical education. Not only is it blatantly false but also weirdly anglo-centric in a way that makes it seem christianity was developed by english speakers.
Yeah, this is quite stunning. In a previous video on this channel (I guess?), there also were those guys who were excited by the supposed "perfection" of the pyramids using the imperial system. Come on...
Meri is not a pun. Virgo is in the mid-heaven, and for 2 reasons she will move into the WATER or Milky Way. 1) The Sun is born in the Milky Way, thus the name Mary, which means Marine or Water, tells the Virgin Virgo to move down and give birth to the Sun. Think of Ramesses or Ra-Moses, the Sun born of water. 2) Virgo is on a line of declination and she must move off this line so Leo can occupy it and make way for the age of Aquarius. Think of Pyramus and Thisbe. Thisbe (Virgo) is chased by a lion (Leo).
@@Maber01 It's ridiculous to conflate words with different etymology that just sound alike. This is Zadornov level fake linguistics, like him claiming that ra-ssia meant they are the chosen people of the sun god. 1) Marina (Latin: of the sea) and Mary, short of Miriam (Hebrew: wished for child) are COMPLETELY unrelated names, my aunt Marina's Saint day is on DIFFERENT DAY form Marias but shared with Margaret (Greek: pearl) as these names ARE considered equivalent (at least in Orthodox Christianity). 2) Similarly, constellation Virgo has nothing to do with virgin birth. What her (September) and Leo (August) have to do with Aquarius (mostly February)? You guys can't even remember months the 12 zodiacs fall into.
Thank you. Very helpful. I have never seen the movie, but I know what it is like to be hit by these claims and to not know what to do with them due to lack of knowledge.
As a lover of your work, (said it before, I wish you'd been my sons history teacher) I just wanted to add a word of sympathy for you having to deal with people like Mr Pleiades. Just saying. Keep them coming Sir. 👍
Yeah it was an entire department in USSR where they brainstormed how to twist the truth to suit their narrative. The stretches with Horus are a great example of starting at a conclusion and then trying to beat the facts into it with a sledgehammer.
He didn't say that the constellations and Zodiac were older than Sun worship. He only said the people were aware of them. He says they watched them over long periods of time and cataloged them into constellations.
Been loving the channel Dr. Miano! Surprised at how much hate people seem to throw at you (*cough* that Pleiades guy *cough*) but always great to see that it doesn't get you down. I especially enjoy these videos as I am currently studying to become a classical historian myself.
Yeah. He or she is unbearable. Dr Miano deletes a lot of the nonsensical comments, or at least he once told told me he does, when I commented on how refreshingly free of that nonsense all of his pages are. But for some reason he lets that 1 guy through. Some people find the debates between them interesting, but I just find it annoying.
Thank you very much for your videos! I'm a history buff, but usually the closer a period is to our present, the more interested I get. However, you are getting me more and more interested in the ancient world. Please keep doing what you are doing! Best regards from Austria! 😉
Horus may have been born on December 25th... but Jesus wasn't, there is No evidence in the Biblical account that Jesus was born on December 25. Infact the manner the Sheppards were in the field in the Gospel of Luke are unlikely to be in the winter. Also the Gospel of Matthew has the Nativity take place over months and even years over the first 2 chapters, and no date on the Calendar is given. The only thing we could establish about the Date of Jesus birth is that it did not take place on a Jewish festival, or Jesus would have been born in Jerusalem not Bethlehem, especially since Jesus was the first born. So Jesus wasn't born on Hanukkah or anywhere near December 25. Horus may be born on December 25, but Jesus wasn't.
Perhaps this is less charitable but I interpret Peter’s statement that some of the myths are “duplicitous” is him acknowledging that he knows full well that he’s twisting myths to suite his narrative about Christianity. Which is another thing this whole “they made up Jesus so they could control people” argument makes no sense. Christianity was a small sect that was discriminated against in the first and second centuries and violently persecuted in the third and fourth. It took centuries for Christianity to grow large enough and prominent enough to be legalized.
To me, ‘sheep son of a sheep’ and ‘lamb son of a lamb’ are simply saying that Horus is the same as his father, ie a god. Similar to how pharaohs used different epithets to strengthen their claim to divinity. These smack downs of conspiracy theorists are just glorious! ❤️ His whole response was basically ‘yeah I know that info exists but I wanted to say this cos I saw it in this book and it makes me sound edgy’.
You sound disingenuous. The creator of Zeitgeist isn't a Conspiracy theorist, but at least now we know what a good hall monitor you are. Congrats good sir.
To me, it seems David’s evidence is irrelevant and only further proving the points in Zeitgeist to be true. Nobody is arguing on the mythology of Jesus. The movie simply provides an alternative understanding than the literal, walking, personified Christ; of whom there is no archaeological or genealogical evidence of. All of these myths share similar stories with minor differences due to the passage of time and distance. It seems to me that the evidence being brought forth from David is indicative of “parallelophobia” (if we want to talk about “parallelomania”). I wouldn’t suggest similar evidence dating thousands of years & miles apart from dozens of separate cultures to be “parallelomania.” There is simply too much evidence to suggest that ALL of these myths and traditions are actually telling the same story. The Sun, it’s resurrection in spring. And it’s death in the winter. To me, it seems David is suffering from “confirmation bias” and his Christian cultural conditioning.
_"Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes/Religion is the opiate of the masses"_ Paraphrase attributed to Marx's discourse upon the people. _"Those who can make you believe absurdities - can make you commit atrocities"_ _"God is a comedian playing to an audience that is too afraid to laugh"_ Voltaire
Thank you. I was under the impression that there was some "plagiarism" in Christianism, particularly, in relation to the Egyptian mythology. I apreciate you allowed posts like that of Orion and took the time to offer further clarifications. Respect! Nevertheless, I think Orion may have something with the pun son/sun. It could have been part of the protoindoeuropean language as well, for example. Not that this has any bearing on your objections. Anywayt, I learned a lot from you and from this video alone.
Nah, these pseudo-linguistic puns are a major conspiracy on their own, not as popular in English. I grew up in Ukraine and we had russian TV back then, this son/sun pun passed right over us, BUT there was Ren TV channel, which had the most ridiculous documentaries, and they had a regular stand-up comedian, Zadornov. His main punchline was "Americans are stoooooopieeed". He used logic like Gagarin coming from the bird gagaRA, to claim that ancient russo-aryans were founders of Egypt and Rome. Seriously. SO MANY PEOPLE ATE IT UP!
The first one wasn’t meant to be a documentary. In Peter’s words it was a personal project that was riddled with copyright infringement as it wasn’t meant to take off the way it did. It wasn’t by his second one where he focused on the natural law resourced based economic system and made it intentional to reach a large audience. But I’m always open minded to listening to valid criticism. Let’s see what your historical analysis says.
6:40 HIlariously, you can debunk this with astrology knowledge, of all things... Aquarius is late January/early February. It DOES NOT bring spring rains. That could be Pisces (with a stretch) but more associated with Aries, in later March and until 20th of April.
When I was in highschool I took this movie as fact, and specifically took interest in the section where they name all of these religions and notate how it's similar to Christianity. I'm an Athiest, so I was not realizing the general idea was to convert others into their religion rather than to point out that these similarities debunk all of the religions at once. Ironically, the issue I would run into when using this argument is that every Christian church has a different number of days Jesus was dead, so it's hard to recount the argument word for word.
Eyes-opening. Thank you, David. It seems like this guy shall just lean towards socio-economical analysis - which he is so brilliant at - and leave this other topic to specialists. Well done. I have to say I was so bought into after his story of Jesus, Horus, Krishna and so on so forth has been all inspired from each other. But I'll tell you: my background is economics and most of what I've heard in Zeitgeist II makes a lot of sense. Let out the free-money-world, as money is the whip of power and you can't just have a world without money. However, this is just a side-comment which doesn't change my opinion on this video of yours. Just a quick reminder about the Italian Orbetello and its magnificent half-submerged megalithic walls. lol I am leaving on a pilgrimage to reach that place. I really have antiquity in my heart :) Hopefully, I'll be there by mid-august and will be able to send you some picture, together with some expert opinion just in case you are interested in having it.
Here is what I question about the whole subject: Why is it that every other ancient language from that part of the world and time period such as Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Roman etc have all been give or take properly translated in a short period of time yet it's taken forever to translate Egyptian hieroglyphics? Why is that? Why aren't words from the Egyptian language mixed up in those other languages? Since all of the aforementioned people and their languages share each others words. If those people were in contact with Ancient Egyptians why isn't a hint of that language found in theirs? Note When Hernán Cortés and his men arrived in Mexico in 1519, they didn't know any of the local languages. However, they were able to use a system of interpreters to communicate with the Aztecs: Why didn't the ancient Greeks, Romans or any other ancient group have a system of interpreters to communicate with the Egyptians? Words like Gum, Ammonia, Barge, Ibis, Libya, Baboon, Chemistry, Pharmacy, Myth, and lily are claimed to be of Egyptian origin but they are also claimed to be of ancient Greek or latin origin. Which one is it? The word “barge” itself was first believed to be coined around 1300 AD, originating from the Latin word “barga” and referred to any small boat. The word Ammonia volatile alkali, a colorless gas with a strong pungent smell, 1799, coined in scientific Latin 1782 by Swedish chemist Torbern Bergman as a name for the gas obtained from sal ammoniac, salt deposits containing ammonium chloride The word chemistry comes from the word alchemy, which in turn is derived from the Arabic word al-kīmīā (الكیمیاء) and may, might, not sure or certain ultimately derive from the ancient Egyptian word kemi, meaning black. The word pharmacy comes from the Greek word pharmakeia, which means "the practice of the druggist". Pharmakeia comes from the Greek word pharmakon, which has multiple meanings, including "drug, poison, spell", "remedy", and "magic potion". The word pharmacy may, might, not sure or certain also come from the Egyptian term ph-ar-maki, which means "the bestower of security". Where did the word baboon come from? According to Oxfords English Dictionary The earliest known use of the noun baboon is in the Middle English period (1150- 1500). OED's earliest evidence for baboon is from around 1400. One of the most ridiculous thing about the translations of hieroglyphics and or any other ancient language from any part of the planet made by westernized whites and academia is that they want us all to believe that those ancient people spoke Shakespearian old english using words like thou, hither, verily etc. There are other things I question about the whole subject but one of the biggest reasons why I take it with a grain of salt is because we live in a subjectively based social construct that isn't rooted in objective real life. It is based on subjective generalizing, stereotyping, making things up and leaving it all open to interpretation.
Also the point of the movie is about capitalism, the Christianity thing is an example of cultural brainwashing, which remains factual even with all of these details being off
Is there any evidence that John the Baptist came from/the character modelled on the Qumran community? I’ve heard that speculated before but wondered if there was any basis for it
There has been some speculation about that, since some of his practices are similar to theirs. But there are differences too. Most scholars think he fits into the cultural milieu of the time but do not connect him with any known Jewish sect.
Zeitgeist had a profound effect on me, I was like 15 when I saw it. It was the first time I realized that Christianity isn't true, and although I look at it now and chuckle, I am grateful for it because it helped me snap out of the Mormon religion I was being raised in. I would have found my way regardless of the movie, I was already starting to think critically at that time and question things, but man it was pretty profound for me as a young kid, I'm not gonna lie! I have developed a little reason with age though, I'm not one of those people that believes absurd conspiracy theories.
Not related to the video but I have been unable to find any answers elsewhere so I figured I’d ask you here. Did ancient cultures have anything similar to archeological research? Did the later Egyptians find and catalog artifacts of older Egypt?
My meager 7th grade education isn't sufficient to know all the details and specifics of ancient mythology. But, having read a bit (including the Bible), there seems to be little doubt that most, if not all, the basic themes of the Jesus myth were not unique in any way - but stem from ideas that had been around for centuries; which, to my uneducated mind, could have had something to do with why the Church was so adamant about burning books.
Thank You, Thank you. David. I agree 100%. Again, I'm relieved to see someone show credible, verifiable proof that discredits speculative written smoke and mirrors. I also like the depth of your arguments with its multiple levels of connected facts. I too am not wanting to just poo poo someone's ideas. I just want it done with credible, verifiable proof.
The 'really' bad thing about this Zeitgeist Horus thing is that it's so well done! It hooked me the first I saw it. I bought completely into it until I found Richard Carrier on TH-cam, who said, "Nope! Not true! And here's why..." and that began my education, as I learned to check even Carrier's claims. Careful study requires a lot of work. Don't take one person's word for anything.
Here, Carrier admitting on video he has no interest in studying Astrotheology and has never read a single book of Acharya's - textbook intellectual dishonesty and far too many of you are buying it, which is as bad as Christian apologists being dishonest:
In a 2014 video, Nuskeptix "Christ Myth Theory" Video Chat, Carrier admits (at 53-54 minutes) he has no interest in pursuing or investigating astrotheology as he finds it "dull," which is basically an admission that Carrier has never studied the subject and has no interest in doing so, therefore, Carrier is not qualified to comment on it with any authority or competence whatsoever. Carrier says he "could never write a book on the subject" (ain't that the truth!). Carrier is simply not a reliable or credible source on the subject of astrotheology or Acharya's work and he needs to be called out on it by others.
I appreciate Carrier's work but on the subject of Astrotheology he is not a reliable trustworthy source - sorry, get over it. Read Murdock's "Christ in Egypt" and "Did Moses Exist?" for yourself. Richard Carrier certainly hasn't. So, Carrier and those he has influenced is actually helping to keep this information buried again, which makes Carrier the worst possible representative for mythicism.
"I find it undeniable that many of the epic heroes and ancient patriarchs and matriarchs of the Old Testament were personified stars, planets, and constellations."
- Dr. Robert Price, Biblical Scholar with two Ph.D's
"Your scholarship is relentless! ...the research conducted by D.M. Murdock concerning the myth of Jesus Christ is certainly both valuable and worthy of consideration."
- Dr. Ken Feder, Professor of Archaeology
; )
And did you come to reject Carrier's baseless claims as well?
Nice comment. You gathered a couple of 🐑.
@@donotcare44 There is nothing to appreciate in Carrier's work. That doesn't make authors even farer off true.
@@donotcare44 wow, speculate much. You make claims with no proof. Imagine that, lol.
Checking historical claims with facts is hard work. That's probably why many people don't bother to do it. They know that hardly anyone will, so they just go with it and make whatever claims they feel like making. I'll admit that I don't want to do all of that work, but I also won't just accept whatever claims I hear.
The fact that you are willing to work so hard to clarify things is extremely helpful!
Thank you for that!
Omg. These comments without thorough study are comedic at best. Omg. This world deserves what's coming.
so just because he responds saying things then he is right instead? everyone is just saying things and everyone is just believing. go do it yourself. I had to stop listening as soon as he said that he didn't bother to have a conversation with peter. Did you completely exhaust yourself in your research, I don't just blindly believe peter, what he says is believable and there may be items that are not entirely true that are attempting to be held up by other items that are. before I listen to you, subscribe or anything how about you post an interview with peter confronting the issues that you think you found, post that one on the tube and I'll be front and center. but dont just do what you are accusing peter of doing you have demoted yourself with this act. if you have facts then state them, show your line of proof, you cant just say something is not true, or " I cant seem to find anything to support this case so it has to be false" THAT IS NOT TRUTH, FACT OR ANYTHING OTHER" If you havent found anything on the zodiac maybe you havent looked hard enough, dont just write it off, and the rest of you dont just follow. bad journalism.
@@Ksys47 If anything, this video is quite gentle in its criticism of Peter. I notice that you are just arguing by assertion and not citing any primary sources. Question your own assumptions please.
I found it really interesting, but then a Japanese speaker pointed out that the "Christ-like" Japanese character had a name that literally cannot be pronounced in Japanese.
If you found the messiahs comparisons interesting, you might want to read The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Its the same Jungian interpretation of religion and myth.
Or read Jung himself, if you have the stomach for the more elitist writing of his day, when academia wasn't popular and wasn't meant for the plebs.
What's funny is that the source I'm pretty sure they used (Acharaya S) explains that Beddru is supposed to represent the Buddha. But that means the Buddha is on her list 3 times. It's also weird because the Buddha was born in India. It's like the Anglican Church saying they believe in the "Jesus of England." They also list the "Mikado of the Sintoos" which I think is a bastardization of the Mikado of the Shintos. But the mikado is the Emperor, and as far as I know, there was never a Jesus Emperor. None of them was crucified, died and resurrected. One of them (Emperor Sutoku) came back as one of the three most powerful demons of Japan, but that's about it.
Seth (Typhon without an R) betrayed his brother Osiris and later fought with his nephew Horus. He did not betray "his brother Horus".
Eh it depends on tradition, these myths existed for thousands of years and their origin stories and family relations had even more conflicting canons than any of the Marvel super heroes. SOMETIMES, Set is Horus' brother. In, I guess, Wolverine comic origin, as opposed to X-Men version of Egyptian mythology (not joking just pointing out example with modern myths).
@@KasumiRINA There are differing and evolving versions but Horus is never betrayed by Seth and never his brother.
the best way to understand zeitgesit as a movie is to look into the sources. joseph references Acharya S (real name: DM Murdock) for much of the mythological section, which thankfully people were quick to notice from joseph's sources from way back in 2007. she makes some strange extensions of Gerald Massey's literature (primary source for Murdock) which many knew weren't founded in historical fact. pretty unfortunate to have 1/3 of your entire movie, which was the most fun to watch, end up being entirely fiction. oh well.
The other thirds are worse but harder to debunk as they have some weirdos saying how they used a loophole to avoid paying taxes to uncle Sam.
Hi Dr. Miano. When I found your channel about a year ago, I was struggling with what to do with myself academically. I had always been in love with ancient history, but knew next to nothing about it. However, thanks to you, and so many other TH-cam historians, many of which I learned of through your collaborations with them, I believe I have decided on what I wish to pursue in terms of my education. In short, thank you for doing what you do, and thank you for teaching me.
Wow, I am so happy to hear that! One of the goals of this channel is to encourage people in that way, so this is fantastic. Best wishes on your academic path!
That's pretty cool. Makes me wish this resource existed when I was choosing a major in college
Everything he says is completely wrong
@@Chemosh418 create a video and state your rebuttal/counter-arguments then!
@@jrex3575 I’ll be happy to site the sources , but you won’t find them on the internet. Your going to to have to go to a library .
Oh how I wish this video was made years ago.
Beautiful username btw
This kind of cringy, conspiratorial nonsense was _everywhere_ among "anti-establishment" circles in the early 2000s and there was basically no pushback against it.
Thank God people don't take that kind of conspiracism seriously anymore haha... oh wait.
Chris white did a huge video on and also on the ancient aliens series
th-cam.com/video/Uh84h7Caf_E/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=VerseByVerseBT
@@Christfollower123 For or against them?
Hi, I just discovered your channel and wanted to say I really appreciate all your hard work. I always appreciate it when scholars make their knowledge and their research skills available to public that are outside academia.
Thank you so much! I am glad you are getting something out of it.
Man, I remember watching this thing as a little baby pagan, and the inaccuracies surrounding Horus pulled my Egypt nerd self right out of it.
So cool that we can experience the perspective of this documentary through the eyes of an ancient history teacher. Bravo man.
Thank you SO much for this! I watched the first part of the Zeitgeist movie recently and I didn't have the time to fact check it. It seemed incredible that I hadn't heard the information before so I wasn't sure whether it was true. I'm sure you've saved me from going down a dead end path. I hope you will continue your investigations into the movie's other claims. I'm looking forward to your revelations!
It's not a dead end path lol
@@ongobongo8333 It most certainly is. Pure BS.
@@ongobongo8333 Again, the TY comment with the evidence-free assertion!
As I can appreciate the gentleman and his points of view, one has to understand the idea of what he has been selected to do. Which is cast doubt. Zeitgeist did that! This gentleman has done that against Zeitgeist. The question I would ask, is why? Totally factual or not, Zeitgeist has is asking questions, and though not TOTALLY accurate, neither is the man in this video. See, propaganda literally works both ways. One to debunk- the other the encourage truth. The fact remains that Zeitgeist drew some very interesting parallels and truth about a real Jesus, a made up Jesus, the Sun, the origin of what is believed by Christians, why that is, how we got here, and ultimately is our messiah The Sun of God, a Sun God, and/or a method of control.
If Jesus is supposed to be real, it bothers me that his STORY can be questioned in such a way that doubt can be raised. We shouldn’t need this guy having to DEFEND the legitimacy. There should be no doubt to truth on this matter. Both situations raise even bigger questions…
"See the Golden Bough, Frazer" - well it's certainly a fascinating book but not one I've heard anyone this century cite as a source about anything other than how Frazer and his contemporaries thought
David Miano is my hero for doing this his entire life he's the type of dude to email a movie director and I love him for it
So keen to see a video breaking this movie down!! I watched it when I was 13 or 14 and it TOTALLY got me. But since I was studying history in high school, I chose the Jesus myth as a topic for a major essay when I was 15, and while doing my own research discovered how badly constructed this movie's evidence was. That was 13 years ago, a good early lesson for me about evaluating sources, the experience had a pretty major impact on the way I assessed information from then on.
But, while I had a general distrust of this movie, I never dived into specific claims in general, and it's fascinating to actually examine what form they really take.
I wish, like others, this video had been available 10 years ago. Thank you for helping dispel pseudohistorical nonsense with facts. Agitprop is the perfect label for the movie.
Proud Patreon supporter 👍
Ultimately the movie is correct
@@ongobongo8333 nope 🤣 you're just wrong, but keep being you 🤣🤣🤣
@@ongobongo8333 Don't keep wasting your time here. Your views and the movie are both clearly recognized as wrong. Try going to where the gullible set goes. To Brightside, or 1 of the Annunaki channels. You'll get a better reception there.
BTW, you do realize I hope that even those guys don't believe a word of it, right? And that they only spout that nonsense because it's profitable. You have been had, and you should be really embarrassed by it!
@@tkgsingsctclown 🤡 #1
@@cattymajivclown 🤡 #2
This channel is awesome, I was going in a spiral watching all the alt history - aryan - ancient civ videos and rethinking everything but this channel single handedly saved me from the slump.
Thanks for bringing these corrections to light. I still see false claims from Zeitgeist all over the internet.
Peter: "Mythologically speaking, the sun is always born of a virgin, from the dawn, astrotheologically speaking."
Amaterasu: "Am I a joke to you?"
But no, seriously, from that guy's emails? It's kind of astonishing to see the motivated reasoning put forth so brazenly. Most propaganists I've seen at least try to _hide_ that they're appropriating accidentally or deliberately misunderstood mythologies for their own purposes.
You are really patient for engaging in these discussions.
He sure is! I find them SO tiresome that I can hardly bear them!
Very excited to watch this. The film is very convincing. I only watched the original version but apparently there are a few variations.
This is a blast from the past, baby’s first deconstruction before I actually went through real grown up deconstruction- I think even back then I knew deep down it was whack, but I was ravenous for anything to break my world view at 14- and it did and I became utterly insufferable for years lol
One of the few things in my past I would happily trade for an opened bag of week old skittles
Excellent video. I remember watching this back in the day (also when it was still WIP) and l remember there was a part where the narrator mentions that Quetzalcoatl was coincidentally born the 24th of December. From that moment on l realized that if they lied about that “fact” (which l knew was a lie) then what else had they lied about? I had to stop watching after that. Glad to see you’re going even deeper with this :)
It's just shocking to me that the maker of Zietgeist was even able to make 1 movie, but he has gotten away with making numerous sequels too! I don't even know how many, 3 or 4 of them! It's just so unbelievable that people dare to publicly lie and lie and lie. But then in this world where Trump and his butt kissing allies have gotten away with the biggest crime wave in history, next only to his buddy Putin, and been allowed to do it by the Biden and Garland, I guess nothing should surprise me. It's 2 sides to the same coin. There once was a time when you weren't allowed to lie on tv. Everyone agreed on what a lie is, and that it's wrong to do it. Now they all agree that profit is king and nothing else matters, especially not justice.
I remember a teacher showed us What the Bleep do we Know? And thinking i was right to cut class.
Sun VS son only applies in English really, in French for example it's Soleil (sun) and Fils (son)
Ever notice how quickly this sort of info spreads, meanwhile, the good professor’s vid is kicking it with sub 1k likes with some *vital* facts?
It's depressing as hell.
@@cattymajiv I remember correcting friends on social media on bad history with proof, and they later reposted same stuff and I was like "I already explained to you it's not like that" and got an answer "I seen people claim both ways", EUGH!
I dunno bro. I think this "debunk" actually did more to convince me they were onto something. I began looking into this when I was in seminary school and almost got myself kicked out of the program for refusing to submit an entirely new paper about this very subject. And yes, I was young and trying to be edgy, but I came to nearly half of these conclusions and associations on my own about 7 years before zeitgeist was a thing. I am going to go watch it now, and if I think of it I'll report back. Specifically within the context of the culture as we know it, separating the penis in stories was, in fact allegory to ensure no "sin" was upon the woman that was impregnated. I can't think of sources off the top of my head while phoneposting, but I'll try and remember to come reply here, in case anyone is interested with sources after I have a little bit to dust off that book shelf. Zeigeist is definitely reaching for associations, but they are there. Your criticism about "Mare" is also slightly pedantic to be fair. If you were to challenge me to come up with better evidence for a word origin, like the English word "gravy" I might say it is "known" that the French had a word for kitchen utensils that were the same sounds, and read, at least similarly: gravé, graué etc. But I couldn't point you to a specific origin for it. Some things are "known" or accepted in the parlance of conversational topics and I think their association is as good as any I can come up with before dictionaries were a thing.
I have a really close family member that started with this shit and over the years started to change weirdly qnd relate everything with conspiracies to the point it was hard to talk even about clothing styles, we don't talk anymore...
I sympathize with you. The only good friend I have in this city is someone I cannot watch tv, Netflix, or TH-cam with, for the same reasons. It's like the old person disappeared. I am positive that it's coming from the weird church he belongs too. I forget the name. They're all weird, but this one seems worse than average. Some American protestant cult-like church. None of those are mainstream here in Canada. But then again, he was formerly a Catholic which is just as bad, and cult-like. IMHO.
A guy ive known for decades devolved into the same thing. It started out small but when covid and Q-Anon happened it was like a hole developed beneath him and he was sucked into a pit of conspiratorial hell. He told us for a year "its coming! its coming! The blackout! 10 days of a blackout!" and when these things never happen he changes the goalposts and relates it to something else. He literally believes every conspiracy he comes across now. Even flat earth. He believes there's a firmament surrounding the earth and the sun, moon and stars are all inside of it. When I asked him why no single human being out of 8 billion people has traveled to the end of the earth and documented this so called force field firmament and put it on TH-cam, he argued every TH-cam video online is propaganda. Every single one. My last question was buddy..."how do you think that is even remotely possible to pull off and how has not one single person ever become whistleblower and leaked valid evidence?" Thats when he started getting mad and I walked away. Last interaction we had. Starting to give me schizophrenia vibes, honestly.
@@cattymajiv I think a lot of folks that have minor schizophrenic tendencies are now being gaslit from every direction and its amplifying their previously minuscule symptoms. Only exaggerating their paranoia and anxiety. With TH-cam and Tiktok especially they're fed these conspiracies in a terrifying and easy way. They think they're doing the right thing talking to everyone about it like some kind of savior complex but they dont realize how crazy they look and what its doing to their mind.
Thank you very much for this video!!!! When I first watched Zeitgeist I loved the first part and wished somebody made a whole documentary on this topic...
We need more historical trackers like you
Love this video, I remember watching this movie years ago and having my mind blown. This videos reaffirms my belief in having a healthy skepticism.
Your useful program notes, links and transcripts make your well researched presentations a great resource for continued exploration of each topic. This channel deserves a much larger audience. Count me in for more.
Man, that guy played dark souls one too many times took praise the sun WAY too seriously
Don’t hurt’em doc, eh … go head and destroy these fake historians.
While he didn’t explicitly mention Massie by name, I recall Spengler respectfully refuting his claims in the first volume of TDotW.
Congratulations 200K Dr Miano💝
Safe/Happy travels
01/2024
A very informative debunking of some of these inaccuracies regarding links between ancient Egyptian beliefs and Christianity. Many of these misrepresentations have been popularised in writings by Freemasons and followers of modern 'mystery religions', such as Manly P Hall's "Freemasonry of the Ancient Egyptians", "That Old-Time Religion" by Jordan Maxwell (a Theosophist), among other such works. These writers/groups have a clear and stated agenda against the popular religions of the world, Christianity especially since they see it as a perversion of 'the mysteries' speaking in a modern understanding of the term (i.e. the beliefs of Freemason groups and other secret societies). However there are some compelling similarities between certain aspects of the Bible and older traditions from the Egyptians as well as other groups from around the Levant, including the fact Jesus is sometimes referred to as "The Amen".
I liked "This is the sun", accompanied by footage of the sun. It's like starting your essay with "Since the beginning of time, there has been the sun, and here is a picture of it." It appealed to my weird sense of humour.
What a sun is like, everyone can see.
Immaculate conception does not mean virgin birth. Immaculate Conception, is Roman Catholic dogma asserting that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was preserved free from the effects of the sin of Adam (usually referred to as “original sin”) from the first instant of her conception. Unless one was Roman Catholic a lay person wouldn’t grasp that concept. Although I suspect most Roman Catholics don’t really understand the concept.
Geez, I remember this movie; I was way less literate on religion and ancient history at the time, so I actually bought into it at the time too.
The funny thing is that if he wanted to give links between older religions and historical contemporaries or predecessors, there are some links he could point to in the old testament. Scholars have made various claims about figures in genesis being linked to myths from Sumer. The Noah flood story has an equivalent, right down to similar birds being sent out. Of the JEPD theory, the P seems influenced by babylonian mythology--with the creation myth that P presents being that the entire world was water and god separates the water above from the water below, and then when he wants to flood the world opens up a hole in the "firmament". (J provides a different creation myth and different noah story). There's just a contextless mention of the tree of life in the garden of eden along with the tree of knowledge. There's a weird passage about Nephillim coming down and impregnating women who gave birth to demigods who become the heroes of the day (never mentioned before or after in the canonical bible). The books of the bible will quote each other, and sometimes they quote books that are no longer in the bible (like "the book of battles of YHWH").
Comparing the mythological part of the bible to other myths in the area suggest some of the myths were borrowed from older traditions in the middle east. And even reading the old testament itself, it occasionally references older works, occasionally has moments where the old testament seems to say "okay, you can have a little bit of polytheism just this once".
Later parts of the old testament (And Christianity of course) seem to show signs of influence from Zoroastrianism with struggles between good deity figures and evil deity figures. These would be after the Persian occupation, of course.
If he wanted to make the case that Christianity and Judaism were influenced by older religions, yes, of course they were!
There were also coins of Emperor Nero with the catchprhase "divine son" or "son of god", though if memory serves I think he actually points that out later in the film.
Just...there's no whole cloth copying of an existing myth. Even the Sumerian myths and Babylonian myths that scholars are convinced influenced the old testament have a whole bunch of differences when you actually hear them.
I think he probably wanted to have something different to say, so he resurrected some old ideas he ran across, not realizing they were largely baseless.
Yhwh..a symbol or insignia.he is astronauts ....like our astronauts NASA it's symbol insignia.....our human ancestors is illiterate at that time.....they don't know it insignia.....so they write yhwh....thanks sorry my grammar...
@@WorldofAntiquity No. You're being overly kind. He realized. He just knew that enough people didn't know and wouldn't bother to dig in to find out. Thank you for doing exactly that. Him, and his "movies", have done long-lasting harm to the literal zeitgeist we're living in.
@@THE-X-Force The religion and myth stuff that people see mistakes in wasn't the main goal of the movie, it starts with 9/11 conspiracies, segues into Moon Landing denial and ends with a whole chapter on what I MANY years later learned is "sovereign citizen" crap. It had interviews with people who didn't pay taxes for years and I couldn't for the life of me figure out what Set and Horus being not even similar to Cain with Abel story having to do with tax avoidance.
@@KasumiRINA Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.
I love everything you post and this one is such a good one. Keep it up, David, you are doing the world a great service.
This channel needs more exposure. Great video. I remember back in the day when i first watched Zeitgeist.. i fell for it at first. Later on looking a lot more into it i realized what a piece of crap it really was
The first YT video I've ever seen where the comment section was more entertaining than the video.
Well done Dr. M.
Zeitgeist is a very surface level film for those that think of themselves as deep thinkers.
Not really... It aims to consider ideas that most had never heard due to Christian capitalist dogma
_Pseudo intellectuals...._
No its not.Its more like a doorway for the sheep.....
@@scottsound4711 Straight to the slaughter house!
Just like your comment.
An additional note: the filmmaker refers to Horus as "prodigal". He means to say PRODIGIOUS. Prodigal comes from a Latin word meaning "wasteful, lavish".
Free associations. Prodigal Son is a parable is in the Bible, literally told by Jesus, and author tried to link as many Jesus-related terms to Horus despite the entire story being about the guy who squandered his part of inheritance on blackjack and hookers and then returned and dad threw a feast for him much larger than he did for the always good son.
Great video as always, Dr. Miano! The fact that so much pseudohistory and pseudoarchaeology comes from people interested in symbolism and mythology - on a very distorted comprehension of such things, actually - really makes me think. Looks like there are deeper cultural trends at work. Do you know of any academic book/study that delves into the relationship between esoterism, conspiracy theories and fringe theories about our past?
I don't. If I ever do, I will definitely share it.
What an interesting concept! I'd love to hear any factual info that's been peer reviewed about that!
It's often difficult to engage with people who believe in that garbage, because often they are not bad people, but men/woman who are sincere in their quest for knowledge. But some of the things they fall for are so stupid it's difficult to be cordial about it, lol.
“Light of the world” Yes, the literal light of the world is the Sun, but the NT authors also likely realized that in Genesis 1:3, Elohim created light before the sun, so in context, “light” could refer to G1:3, the sun, or it may be a vague reference to illumination of the supposed truths.
I was like 15 when this came out so when I saw it through my young eyes I took some things away from it and the Christianity/Religion part always flew by me a bit more. This video is helping a lot with those missing pieces and I'm only ten minutes in!
when I was in cultural anthropology courses, many anthropologists simply don't bother with the history of other countries and cared more about imposing their own idea (usually justifying their borderline conspiracies) and call it an "interpretation"
When i first saw the Zeitgeist movie about 10 years ago, I already understood, that Joseph was making generalizations about Jesus being a sun god, as I knew full well, that Re was the sun god, not Horus. It's really a pity he did not listen to people like Dr. Miano. I think the point Joseph tried to make, that the bible borrowed largely from other religious sources could have been made without all the false information. As I understand, the parallels particularly between Mithras and Jesus are very striking. And the whole idea of the bright Star leading three kings as representing Sirius and the belt of Orion is also very striking, which is why it stuck with me.
So these parallels exist, but another not mistake but intentional decision that Joseph made was to use these parallels to basically dismiss all religious texts as basically just codified astronomical information, to achieve one of his main goals to dismiss religion and the spiritual in general. And this is were he loses all credibility and reveals himself as more propagandist than researcher.
This also explains why he would not take advice on the accuracy, because it didn't suit him. A bad decision indeed, because it can never work to uncover one group of people's lies (in his case the so-called elite) by perpetrating or perpetuating other lies.
And this is where the whole Zeitgeist-idea fails, a lack of sincerity and humility.
When I first viewed Zeitgeist back in 2008 or so, I'll admit I was captivated and awestruck. Granted, I was 16 and highly impressionable and already questioning much about Christianity and flirting with the idea of Atheism. So easily, that section appealed to me without much thought as to what it was based in. Now looking back, and having someone such as yourself point out all the holes in the religion section, it does have alot of vague and sort of baseless/sourceless claims. Overall the execution could have been more precise with different sourced material thays more credible and accurate. However, the sentiment or general theme I believe Joseph was attempting to get across about religion being adapted and mistranslated and greedy is something I do agree with. Especially when he adds the clips from George Carlin's stand up. Just was sort of sloppy and missed the mark.
The 9/11 part and the American government was pretty thought provoking in my personal opinion. Definitely opened up a dialogue on that subject that previously wasn't being discussed amongst my peers or in my small community in Ceres California. It definitely pointed me to the rabbit hole that's for sure. Another aspect to it that appealed to me very much so, and is something I still and will always hold as a very strong conviction, and that is question everything, because not everything is quite as it seems or is as it's portrayed or presented to us.
Good video. I remember watching Zeitgeist and being totally persuaded by it around 2008. It took me a few years to come to my senses.
If you are interested. Peter Joseph did not come up with this stuff himself. He simply used the research of a Jordan Maxwell. I think Maxwell wrote about this in the book "That Old Time Religion". I believe Jordan Maxwell based his ideas on the works of obscurist/symbologist Manly P. Hall
Ah, interesting! I did not know that.
Throw David Icke in there as well. Majorly into history and a lot more.
@@PeaceKeepingMissile True. David Icke and Jordan Maxwell has worked a lot together. Icke quotes Maxwell extensively in his books.
@@WorldofAntiquity BTW the first voice that can be heard in the movie is that of Jordan Maxwell. It starts "The more you start to investigate..."
Another great debunking video! I love them!!
The birth of Horus the child was believed to be during the Renenutet festivity, in the beginning of the Egyptian month of Pachons that goes between March 27th and April 25th.
So even the one thing that could be similar, with a stretch, is not... I say we shouldn't use Greek retelling as Egyptian stories as canon. They're fanfics.
10:20 Writing this before seeing your response to test myself: as a kid from _children's_ pop science books, I learned that Horus is the god of SKY, not just sun, the sun gods were Amun and Ra (or Re), later combined into Amun-Ra... Set was NOT a god of darkness, at all. He was god of dry sandy wind. Very specific to region deity, which wouldn't really work outside of desert. He also wasn't always seen as evil, as Seti and Ramesses dynasty worshiped him as their main deity.
It's such a streeeeeetch, almost as if they wanted to claim common dichotomy of light vs dark AND a tie to Egypt as it's popular, and managed to miss that there's Ra defeating Apep the snake (anyone who played Assassin's Creed Origins would know) and raising the sky chariot every dawn that would fit way more, but they went with Horus vs Set because they played Tomb Raider 4 or something... Nah, they wanted to make a Cain/Abel parallel, which also wouldn't work (they aren't even brothers), later.
P.S. I specifically quoted non-academic stuff but things a CHILD would know, for example, you go into Duat and see the giant skeleton of Apep in Assassin's Creed, a game series that never claimed great historical accuracy but the guys like Peter Joseph don't even pass the _videogame_ level of knowledge on Egyptian myths. Or children's book level of cursory knowledge on ancient Egypt... Did he even watch the Mummy? :3
Another major problem with the zeitgeist proposed parallels between Horus and Jesus is that obviously Horus wasn’t thought to be crucified because crucifixion hadn’t even been invented yet. Horus was worshipped between 6000-3000BC and crucifixion was created by Persians around 400BC. Irregardless, you did a terrific job with your breakdown. I am so appreciative for these videos that you do on ancient history myths. It’s so refreshing to have an academic on TH-cam dispel many of these crazy, outlandish, and unfounded claims that unfortunately fool so many. Thank you and keep up the excellent work!
Thank you. I am glad you are enjoying!
Ironically you used the word fool.
The astrological crucifixion in in the constellation of Orion which is attached to the Winter Triangle (skull hill).
Orion is the constellation that represents Osiris. So, Horus is associated with this constellation by his father.
Note the Hebrew word for Orion is Kissel which means fool. As a result, The Beatles song "Fool (Orion) on the Hill (Winter Triangle)" is parody of the crucifixion.
In addition, Isis is concerned that Horus will be stung by the Scorpion. Scorpio is opposite of Orion, thus they are in opposition.
Scorpio is the backstabber and the betrayer, Set.
Set is combination of Scorpio, Lupus (wolf/jackel) and Hercules.
So the Cross, Orion, existed long before crucifixion was invented.
Here is how Psalm 22 is about Orion.
Orion is surrounded by the Dog stars Sirius and Procyon
Orion is surrounded by the bull Taurus
Orion is poured out like water because he is under the Milky Way
Orion takes the shape of a sword/cross, thus wants to be free of the sword.
So the claims are not crazy, outlandish, or unfounded. Most people, because of bias, can't understand these things even when someone explains it to them.
This was a perfect examination, as expected from a Ph.D. holder. Great work professor Miano.
Great video! Very interesting. I'm looking forward to part 2
I remember seeing this video when it first came out and my bullshit meter was going off , not in the detail you have given I am a layman and student , but that list was setting of my inner alarm system , I am Jungian and go along with the archetypal imagery and themes many of them repeating in different forms or themes in different groups cultures , I tend to look at them psychologically interesting to see how the ancients structured their thinking ,speech , and cultural developments and transformations , the zeitgeist guy has quite obvious neo pagan BIAS
Another great video. I bought into Zeitgeist when I saw it on you tube. I am happy that I have better information from an academic. So many kids get their world view and belief from movies and you tube. At least they have an alternative now, but I don’t think they will find it. They aren’t smart. I say that about myself at that age as well.
I have to really wonder why the generations after mine are so gullible. Virtually nobody of my age, 62, or a bit older, would ever have been taken in by that stuff. But then again, the people who are just a little older than us were completely hoodwinked by the Christian churches. And many more, in the US anyway, by televangelists. So maybe it's not so unusual a phenomenon. I guess it's always been going on, so maybe it's just today's version of the gullible being sucked in. I don't know. I found it very distressing back then, and I still do now. Why can people not see it when they are so clearly being lied to for profit? I wish I knew.
ok just, thank you man. This was very much needed.
The "God's Sun" and "Meri" puns should immediately disqualify this as a serious piece of historical education. Not only is it blatantly false but also weirdly anglo-centric in a way that makes it seem christianity was developed by english speakers.
Yeah, this is quite stunning. In a previous video on this channel (I guess?), there also were those guys who were excited by the supposed "perfection" of the pyramids using the imperial system. Come on...
Anglocentrism strikes again
@@infamedepatates2502 Francocentrism is the only true centrism
Meri is not a pun.
Virgo is in the mid-heaven, and for 2 reasons she will move into the WATER or Milky Way.
1) The Sun is born in the Milky Way, thus the name Mary, which means Marine or Water, tells the Virgin Virgo to move down and give birth to the Sun. Think of Ramesses or Ra-Moses, the Sun born of water.
2) Virgo is on a line of declination and she must move off this line so Leo can occupy it and make way for the age of Aquarius. Think of Pyramus and Thisbe. Thisbe (Virgo) is chased by a lion (Leo).
@@Maber01 It's ridiculous to conflate words with different etymology that just sound alike. This is Zadornov level fake linguistics, like him claiming that ra-ssia meant they are the chosen people of the sun god.
1) Marina (Latin: of the sea) and Mary, short of Miriam (Hebrew: wished for child) are COMPLETELY unrelated names, my aunt Marina's Saint day is on DIFFERENT DAY form Marias but shared with Margaret (Greek: pearl) as these names ARE considered equivalent (at least in Orthodox Christianity).
2) Similarly, constellation Virgo has nothing to do with virgin birth. What her (September) and Leo (August) have to do with Aquarius (mostly February)? You guys can't even remember months the 12 zodiacs fall into.
Thank you. Very helpful. I have never seen the movie, but I know what it is like to be hit by these claims and to not know what to do with them due to lack of knowledge.
Saludos desde México Dr. Miano. I Love your work. What do you think of the Mythicist position of Dr. Carrier and Dr. Price?
I think they are wrong. Maybe I will do a video on that.
@@WorldofAntiquity COOL. Perhaps your take on Josephus. I actually dont believe in existence of the historical Jesus.
Younger David Miano: "You have to be fair. You have to be accurate."
PJ: "No, I don't."
This is also what he means by the film being "duplicitous".
As a lover of your work, (said it before, I wish you'd been my sons history teacher) I just wanted to add a word of sympathy for you having to deal with people like Mr Pleiades. Just saying.
Keep them coming Sir. 👍
I know eh? Plieades is just SO insufferable! So is another 1 called Orion Something.
"Agitation propagana" that's a good term for stuff that's been thrown around a lot this year.
Yeah it was an entire department in USSR where they brainstormed how to twist the truth to suit their narrative. The stretches with Horus are a great example of starting at a conclusion and then trying to beat the facts into it with a sledgehammer.
He didn't say that the constellations and Zodiac were older than Sun worship. He only said the people were aware of them. He says they watched them over long periods of time and cataloged them into constellations.
He then says Aquarius represents spring rain, despite it being an air sign and falling on winter, exclusively.
🤦 He got the 'God's sun' thing from the Star Trek episode 'Bread and Circuses'.
Been loving the channel Dr. Miano! Surprised at how much hate people seem to throw at you (*cough* that Pleiades guy *cough*) but always great to see that it doesn't get you down. I especially enjoy these videos as I am currently studying to become a classical historian myself.
Yeah. He or she is unbearable. Dr Miano deletes a lot of the nonsensical comments, or at least he once told told me he does, when I commented on how refreshingly free of that nonsense all of his pages are. But for some reason he lets that 1 guy through. Some people find the debates between them interesting, but I just find it annoying.
Thank you very much for your videos! I'm a history buff, but usually the closer a period is to our present, the more interested I get. However, you are getting me more and more interested in the ancient world. Please keep doing what you are doing! Best regards from Austria! 😉
Thank you, and welcome to the channel!
Horus may have been born on December 25th... but Jesus wasn't, there is No evidence in the Biblical account that Jesus was born on December 25. Infact the manner the Sheppards were in the field in the Gospel of Luke are unlikely to be in the winter. Also the Gospel of Matthew has the Nativity take place over months and even years over the first 2 chapters, and no date on the Calendar is given. The only thing we could establish about the Date of Jesus birth is that it did not take place on a Jewish festival, or Jesus would have been born in Jerusalem not Bethlehem, especially since Jesus was the first born.
So Jesus wasn't born on Hanukkah or anywhere near December 25.
Horus may be born on December 25, but Jesus wasn't.
Perhaps this is less charitable but I interpret Peter’s statement that some of the myths are “duplicitous” is him acknowledging that he knows full well that he’s twisting myths to suite his narrative about Christianity.
Which is another thing this whole “they made up Jesus so they could control people” argument makes no sense. Christianity was a small sect that was
discriminated against in the first and second centuries and violently persecuted in the third and fourth. It took centuries for Christianity to grow large enough and prominent enough to be legalized.
Whoa you're an OG! You've been critiquing inaccuracies in films (right down to the timestamp!) since TH-cam was a baby
To me, ‘sheep son of a sheep’ and ‘lamb son of a lamb’ are simply saying that Horus is the same as his father, ie a god. Similar to how pharaohs used different epithets to strengthen their claim to divinity.
These smack downs of conspiracy theorists are just glorious! ❤️ His whole response was basically ‘yeah I know that info exists but I wanted to say this cos I saw it in this book and it makes me sound edgy’.
You sound disingenuous. The creator of Zeitgeist isn't a Conspiracy theorist, but at least now we know what a good hall monitor you are. Congrats good sir.
@@nickboots2 He's not only a conspiratory theorist, but rather stupid one at that!
Dr.Maino thank you for your work on this subject
To me, it seems David’s evidence is irrelevant and only further proving the points in Zeitgeist to be true. Nobody is arguing on the mythology of Jesus. The movie simply provides an alternative understanding than the literal, walking, personified Christ; of whom there is no archaeological or genealogical evidence of.
All of these myths share similar stories with minor differences due to the passage of time and distance.
It seems to me that the evidence being brought forth from David is indicative of “parallelophobia” (if we want to talk about “parallelomania”). I wouldn’t suggest similar evidence dating thousands of years & miles apart from dozens of separate cultures to be “parallelomania.” There is simply too much evidence to suggest that ALL of these myths and traditions are actually telling the same story. The Sun, it’s resurrection in spring. And it’s death in the winter.
To me, it seems David is suffering from “confirmation bias” and his Christian cultural conditioning.
*"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool."*
*Voltaire*
_"Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes/Religion is the opiate of the masses"_
Paraphrase attributed to Marx's discourse upon the people.
_"Those who can make you believe absurdities - can make you commit atrocities"_
_"God is a comedian playing to an audience that is too afraid to laugh"_
Voltaire
silliest comment ever.
Thank you. I was under the impression that there was some "plagiarism" in Christianism, particularly, in relation to the Egyptian mythology. I apreciate you allowed posts like that of Orion and took the time to offer further clarifications. Respect! Nevertheless, I think Orion may have something with the pun son/sun. It could have been part of the protoindoeuropean language as well, for example. Not that this has any bearing on your objections. Anywayt, I learned a lot from you and from this video alone.
Nah, these pseudo-linguistic puns are a major conspiracy on their own, not as popular in English. I grew up in Ukraine and we had russian TV back then, this son/sun pun passed right over us, BUT there was Ren TV channel, which had the most ridiculous documentaries, and they had a regular stand-up comedian, Zadornov. His main punchline was "Americans are stoooooopieeed". He used logic like Gagarin coming from the bird gagaRA, to claim that ancient russo-aryans were founders of Egypt and Rome. Seriously. SO MANY PEOPLE ATE IT UP!
One of the first Conspiracy Theory videos I watched was zeitgeist
The first one wasn’t meant to be a documentary. In Peter’s words it was a personal project that was riddled with copyright infringement as it wasn’t meant to take off the way it did.
It wasn’t by his second one where he focused on the natural law resourced based economic system and made it intentional to reach a large audience.
But I’m always open minded to listening to valid criticism. Let’s see what your historical analysis says.
I always knew that film was BS. But didn’t realize how BAD it was.
Thank you professor . Now I'm relieved for real. I'm watching every video every day to get the real "light".
Good work.Appreciate your commitment to accuracy and truth.
6:40 HIlariously, you can debunk this with astrology knowledge, of all things... Aquarius is late January/early February. It DOES NOT bring spring rains. That could be Pisces (with a stretch) but more associated with Aries, in later March and until 20th of April.
Snappy outfit. You look great. Love hearing you debunk nonsense. You’ve taught me a good amount especially critical thinking and common sense.
I'm curious. Are there any alternate history theories that you think are plausible?
Someone asked me that before. I answer it somewhere in this video: th-cam.com/video/IzOBIchi0gY/w-d-xo.html
When I was in highschool I took this movie as fact, and specifically took interest in the section where they name all of these religions and notate how it's similar to Christianity. I'm an Athiest, so I was not realizing the general idea was to convert others into their religion rather than to point out that these similarities debunk all of the religions at once. Ironically, the issue I would run into when using this argument is that every Christian church has a different number of days Jesus was dead, so it's hard to recount the argument word for word.
Eyes-opening. Thank you, David.
It seems like this guy shall just lean towards socio-economical analysis - which he is so brilliant at - and leave this other topic to specialists.
Well done. I have to say I was so bought into after his story of Jesus, Horus, Krishna and so on so forth has been all inspired from each other.
But I'll tell you: my background is economics and most of what I've heard in Zeitgeist II makes a lot of sense. Let out the free-money-world, as money is the whip of power and you can't just have a world without money.
However, this is just a side-comment which doesn't change my opinion on this video of yours.
Just a quick reminder about the Italian Orbetello and its magnificent half-submerged megalithic walls. lol
I am leaving on a pilgrimage to reach that place. I really have antiquity in my heart :) Hopefully, I'll be there by mid-august and will be able to send you some picture, together with some expert opinion just in case you are interested in having it.
I would love to see them!
Here is what I question about the whole subject: Why is it that every
other ancient language from that part of the world and time period
such as Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Roman etc have all been give or
take properly translated in a short period of time yet it's taken forever
to translate Egyptian hieroglyphics? Why is that?
Why aren't words from the Egyptian language mixed up in those other
languages? Since all of the aforementioned people and their languages
share each others words. If those people were in contact with Ancient
Egyptians why isn't a hint of that language found in theirs?
Note When Hernán Cortés and his men arrived in Mexico in 1519, they
didn't know any of the local languages. However, they were able to use a
system of interpreters to communicate with the Aztecs: Why didn't the
ancient Greeks, Romans or any other ancient group have a system of
interpreters to communicate with the Egyptians?
Words like Gum, Ammonia, Barge, Ibis, Libya, Baboon, Chemistry,
Pharmacy, Myth, and lily are claimed to be of Egyptian origin but they
are also claimed to be of ancient Greek or latin origin. Which one is it?
The word “barge” itself was first believed to be coined around 1300 AD,
originating from the Latin word “barga” and referred to any small boat.
The word Ammonia volatile alkali, a colorless gas with a strong pungent
smell, 1799, coined in scientific Latin 1782 by Swedish chemist Torbern
Bergman as a name for the gas obtained from sal ammoniac, salt deposits
containing ammonium chloride
The word chemistry comes from the word alchemy, which in turn is derived from
the Arabic word al-kīmīā (الكیمیاء) and may, might, not sure or certain ultimately
derive from the ancient Egyptian word kemi, meaning black.
The word pharmacy comes from the Greek word pharmakeia, which means "the
practice of the druggist". Pharmakeia comes from the Greek word pharmakon,
which has multiple meanings, including "drug, poison, spell", "remedy", and "magic
potion". The word pharmacy may, might, not sure or certain also come from the
Egyptian term ph-ar-maki, which means "the bestower of security".
Where did the word baboon come from? According to Oxfords English Dictionary
The earliest known use of the noun baboon is in the Middle English period (1150-
1500). OED's earliest evidence for baboon is from around 1400.
One of the most ridiculous thing about the translations of hieroglyphics and or
any other ancient language from any part of the planet made by westernized
whites and academia is that they want us all to believe that those ancient
people spoke Shakespearian old english using words like thou, hither, verily etc.
There are other things I question about the whole subject but one of the biggest
reasons why I take it with a grain of salt is because we live in a subjectively based
social construct that isn't rooted in objective real life. It is based on subjective
generalizing, stereotyping, making things up and leaving it all open to interpretation.
Speaking of pull it out, polish it and sell it, could you briefly discuss the cult of Min and where he fits into history or mythology?
Also the point of the movie is about capitalism, the Christianity thing is an example of cultural brainwashing, which remains factual even with all of these details being off
I don’t get it, Jesus taught love, peace, selflessness, and living a righteous life. Why would that be considered brainwashing?
Is there any evidence that John the Baptist came from/the character modelled on the Qumran community? I’ve heard that speculated before but wondered if there was any basis for it
There has been some speculation about that, since some of his practices are similar to theirs. But there are differences too. Most scholars think he fits into the cultural milieu of the time but do not connect him with any known Jewish sect.
@@WorldofAntiquity thanks! That was my thought but glad to have it cleared up
Zeitgeist had a profound effect on me, I was like 15 when I saw it. It was the first time I realized that Christianity isn't true, and although I look at it now and chuckle, I am grateful for it because it helped me snap out of the Mormon religion I was being raised in. I would have found my way regardless of the movie, I was already starting to think critically at that time and question things, but man it was pretty profound for me as a young kid, I'm not gonna lie! I have developed a little reason with age though, I'm not one of those people that believes absurd conspiracy theories.
Seems the writer of "The Golden Bough" was pretty sensible. Yes, research did continue.
Not related to the video but I have been unable to find any answers elsewhere so I figured I’d ask you here. Did ancient cultures have anything similar to archeological research? Did the later Egyptians find and catalog artifacts of older Egypt?
There is a little bit of evidence of that, but not much. I know Sima Qian, when writing his history, visited some ancient ruins to get information.
My meager 7th grade education isn't sufficient to know all the details and specifics of ancient mythology. But, having read a bit (including the Bible), there seems to be little doubt that most, if not all, the basic themes of the Jesus myth were not unique in any way - but stem from ideas that had been around for centuries; which, to my uneducated mind, could have had something to do with why the Church was so adamant about burning books.
This was incredible!!! I wish I was like you! 🤙🏼🙂
Aw, thanks, David!
Thank You, Thank you. David. I agree 100%. Again, I'm relieved to see someone show credible, verifiable proof that discredits speculative written smoke and mirrors. I also like the depth of your arguments with its multiple levels of connected facts. I too am not wanting to just poo poo someone's ideas. I just want it done with credible, verifiable proof.
Thanks for clearing all that up! Loved that movie & the Addendum. Questioned this stuff too. Great job here!