TY for the informative video! I'm curious to know more about the link from Christianity to esotericism. What I mean is that in this story, we see the two brushing up against one another, but not really a connection. Is there a link from Christianity post-Nicaea to the occult? I want to say the Golden Dawn has Christian roots? In a more practical sense, where does one begin, rather than studying in parallel, if that makes any sense. IOW, not learning all new material that seems otherwise disconnected, but maybe starting with something such as gematria, which (I assume?) can be applied to the canonical scriptures, once understood.
Why the comment about conspiracy theories and the Vatican library? So when you have a report to do, you go to the library to find the knowledge you seek. So a library which has been around for over 1500 years and controlled by a group who actually at one time had total control over all of western society. Yet, you throw in some bullshit remark. I'm an orphan and was not able to finish school and went to prison because I had the wrong type of business and uncle Sam wants his cut. After covid I'm really believe that most people who went to school and went to college have know critical thinking skills. How many fights does one have to have with an uninformed person about the dangers of gene therapeutics while I have all the data from the scientist who developed the tech. I'm listening very closely to what you say. There is something wrong with the world today and it all comes back to one group of racist who think they are chosen because their great, great, great..... grandfather learned how to right and made himself above all others. The same people see 10 wonders in Egypt yet when Moses walks away for a few moments, they melt their gold to worship a golden calf, baal. Question, where did the slaves get so much gold?
I'm a real thinker and spend my time doing that. Not watching TV, or listening to garbage sounds called music. I don't do drugs or drink, and I don't lie. I am not a republican or a Democrat but today in these days I lean heavily towards the conservatives. I was a soldier for the left and I see their lies and hate.
@@idontknowname-rl8yb Magi are a Persian tribe. Arrian records that they guarded the tombs of the emperors. They were all Persian and obviously associated with good astronomy. Magic is an import into Greek based on the tribe, whose system of divination was based on astrology.
There's a Philomena Cunk interview where she asks an expert "How many three wise men were there?" The expert responds with "Nobody really knows," which is the right answer, but it's played for laughs.
Its better to listen to the idea and story, and accept it is a story about our world that is trying to teach us something important, just like did a snake really talk in paradise about a magical fruit, or can a virgin give birth?
Why is he learning about christianity in preschool? I would be concerned with the curriculum of that school/district. Indoctrinating christianity at a young age.
As a Zoroastrian TH-camr, I wanted to say thank you for shining some light onto my religion in such a truthful way, and for wading through the absolute mess that is Zoroastrian studies to find that stuff out. I appreciated how well researched it was. One thing I wanted to say is that it “Zoroaster”, Zarathushtra Spitama as he called himself, can’t have existed anytime near the Achaemenid dynasty of Iran. The language he spoke, Gathic Avestan, is extremely similar to the Sanskrit of the RgVeda, and it is dated to either the middle of the RgVedic period or the very beginning, all dependent on what level of phonological change one adopts. Who knows when exactly the RgVedic era is, but I don’t think anybody puts it after 1000 BC. Either way thank you for making this video, and if you ever need help working on a video on Zoroastrianism, I’d love to help! Also, the Gathas are a masterpiece of ancient poetry, composed by Zarathushtra himself, and are a great read. I would recommend the translations by Dr Stanley Insler and Dr Ali Jafarey. Ushta te (may you have radiant happiness)
Thanks for this comment. And, yes, from one religious minority to another - I have great respect for Zoroastrianism and its adherents: a tremendously beautiful faith and tradition. But not, Zarathushtra was much, much before the adoption of his faith and reform by the western magi, for sure.
@@TheEsotericaChannel thank you for the kind words. In its own way, Zoroastrians and Jews being friendly feels like keeping a 2,500 year tradition alive. I agree about the Magi too, there are a lot of things debatably added by them that seem very contrary to the teachings of Zarathushtra, yet are still accepted by many even today. It’s all so fascinating 🙏
@Ashemvidam We know from the texts that they used original early Avestan, which puts the date of record at around 1600-1800 BC. The Romans and Greeks universally place Zoroaster either 6000 years before their time or 5000 years before the Trojan war. The problem with Muslims and rabbinicalists is that they project a late view of Zoroaster in a competitive bid for Abraham to be the first monotheist. Their problem is exacerbated by the fact that Abraham is from Ur of the Chaldees, a dynasty which existed at Ur in Iraq only between the 8th-6th centuries BC, which means that the earliest form of Judaism could not have existed before then. All material evidence points to Judaism being a 3rd century BC construction with all of the materials modern neo-rabbinicalists use dating to after the 9th century AD when their movement was first constructed. (they have no continuity with classical Judaism)
When I was 5 years old, I dressed as one of the "3 kings" for my school's nativity play. I had the choice of Joseph, but I wanted the chocolate gold coins...
I really appreciate the idea of taking faith seriously but not literally. A studious approach to all the beliefs of the world can’t help but be beneficial. This is such an interesting and human story. This is also very entertaining
It seems ironic that I learn more about Christianity in an unbiased fashion from you, a Jewish scholar, than anywhere else. Thank you. I've long been distressed and disgusted by the antisemitism established early in the history of Christianity. I guess Christians didn't invent it but they sure have kept it alive and thriving. It never hurt anyone, you said. Right. I do appreciate your sarcasm. Thank you for your videos. I finally decided to comment. I've watched many of them and enjoy your presentations. You never come across as anti-christian and that speaks volumes on your character. May you and yours be blessed now and in the coming new year.
@Toastrodamus A lot of christian content is either trying to prove that God exists or trying to debunk his existence. This is not fulfilling for everyone who wants to learn about the practices of various cultures.
Loved this deep dive! I was raised in the Greek Orthodox tradition and treasure it…with ambivalence (I also have deep Manichaean tendencies). I’m grateful for perspective your on the Early Church Fathers and for clarifying much about Zoroastrian history in this video. I can’t wait for you to do a deep dive on Zoroastrianism!
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, and one "hot take" they had was that the Star of Bethlehem was none other than Satan. After all, he was the Morningstar, and the star did not lead the Magi to Jesus first, but to Herod, a man who would want Jesus to be killed. Therefore, JWs interpreted the star as malevolent, a demonic force wanting harm to come to Jesus. Sheltered as I was, I grew up assuming everyone thought this and did not understand why the "satanic" star would be featured so much in art and music. JWs don't celebrate Christmas (they believe Jesus was born around September and birthdays are pagan) so as a kid, I truly didn't understand a lot of the symbols I saw around town. I wrote many school essays on what the symbols of holly, reindeer, mistletoe, etc. might mean (days before the internet, so this was library research) as well as the literary change from Magi to Three Kings, all from an academic and historical perspective. Thankfully, my family wasn't living in the South at that time, so none of my liberal-minded teachers took these essays as an "attack on Christmas." (My Arkansas cousins got punished for doing the same thing.) Instead, my teachers saw it as this little kid questioning holiday traditions from an outsider's perspective. It was the start of my journey questioning and researching many cultural beliefs, mythologies, legends, and traditions. Always question, "Why do people believe this?" However, while my teachers enjoyed my deep dives, my habit of always questioning "why" got me in trouble with the JW elders, who publicly scolded me for daring to question doctrine. I don't want to be in any religion that punishes a curious mind.
Satan has nothing to do with the guiding star. God has his hand in everything,as well as the fact that the Magi did not return to Herod to insure Herod would not have knowledge were and when the Son of God our Lord Jesus Christ to insure the salvation of all who come to the Father through the Son. This is not some myth, and I will pray for all those in danger of hell fire. Praise be to God Almighty!
I grew up in Puerto Rico, and in our household in the mid 70s when I was a child, and as far as I can remember thanks to our parents especially my father, we used to celebrate “Los Tres Reyes Magos” which translates as “The Three Magi Kings”... I didn’t know who Santa Claus or Christmas was until I was an adolescent in the 80s. That’s when the tradition of the three magi kings started dying in our household. Thanks for sharing this informative video with us it was most interesting!
This is an excellent lecture. Thank you for sharing your scholarship! Even if you are not a Christian, you present these ideas in a neutral, yet respectful manner. You have my respect.
@@lxDastanxl No? That's not what I meant. Myth as a genre refers to stories of divine beings, those who they oppose, and how they alter nature and civilization
Another stellar presentation, Doc. When hearing the Magi and the Star of Bethlehem story, I think of Arthur C. Clarke's THE STAR, where a Vatican astronomer goes in search of the star, or supernova, that God used to herald Jesus' birth. Its conclusion is definitely not what the reader expects.
Idk about that story, but many Catholic theologians, including Saint Thomas Aquinas, defended that the Star who guided the Magi was an Angel, so that's not problematic for us
What's so strange about this is, all during my life (im mid 50's in age), the term "Magi" was never used. It was always "3 Kings, 3 Wise Men, 3 Wise Kings from the East". When I found out (stumbled upon in wikipedia) that the real title was "Biblical Magi"....I was baffled. Never ever heard them called that prior. Maybe thats the case for some others too ?
Not for us in hispanic countries, though. Los Tres Reyes Magos (The three Magi Kings) brought us gifts every year before the popularization of the americanized Santa Claus
I heard the names "Melchior, Gaspar, and Belthasar" for the first time from playing Chrono Trigger, years before I learned they were the names of the three magi in the birth of Jesus myth, being raised in an Atheist household. To this day I still associate them prominently with CT whenever I read or hear anything about them. I have a lot of great memories of that game. It was perhaps the single most formative piece of media in my tastes for not only videogames, but fantasy fiction in all forms, as well as mythology and allegory.
lol. My son-in-law is Persian. Although he’s technically Muslim he happily helps us put his “ cousins” up in the manger scene every year. That has become his job. 😊
This page is a gem, truly. I mean modern day library of Alexandria type stuff. I get that it can be overwhelming but I feel blessed to have found your page. Some of the stuff is hard to remember or hold onto knowledge wise, a lot of it feels like a map being written of a world unseen while my eyes are fixated on a different world all the time. In the end thank you.
This is very fortuitous timing. A friend of mine just posted asking about this & whether it was 3 kings or 3 Wise Men because the bible is so inconsistent. The responses were mainly people telling her what term their family used & then devolved into a thread of 2 people copy/pasting bible verses at each other as if that was the mic drop that ended all discussion. Anyway, I sent this video to her with a warning that it was a lot lol.
"Messiah: the game where nobody wins!" 🤣 I love this channel, your voice is so pleasant and I appreciate that the videos are very calm and slower paced but still packed with information. I find some other producer's styles to be a little overstimulating and I am too old for that lol!! Thank you so much for teaching Esotericism this way.
Dr Justin, I am an Episcopal Deacon who follows you for the insightful images you present. I've been in situations where I'm able to preach once a month. My preparation will always find me looking for viewpoints and commentaries outside of the normal Christian publications that are "recommended" reading. Your subjects have led me to some deep introspection that allow me to present other views and possibilities which add to the discussions held during the Coffee Hour that follows the Service. You've also contributed to some responses by our priest in his sermons the following week. This coming Sunday being so close to the Epiphany will allow me to use some of your imagery in a Homily focused on the star. The writings of Ignatius of Antioch with his heavy metal anthem will be sure to headline my own writing. I'll avoid using the hand symbol associated with metal music to avoid being accussed of spreading anti-Christian messages.😉 Thank you for awesome videos! Pax et Bonum!
I am delighted to hear that anything I create can also help to be spiritual food for the faithful - despite my own skepticism. The story of the Magi is very powerful and what analysis I bring to the table can be beneficial to the skeptical and faithful alike. Many thanks for your kind words!
First time I’ve seen one of your videos. Like a breath of fresh air. (And using Mr.T as the image for gold made me more than a little happy on this ‘Christmas Day’ in Japan.)
Thanks again for bringing a relentless scholarly rigour and depth that, along with your dry wit and clarity, opens up the fascinating depths of things I haven't thought of for many years, or at all.
I gotta talk about the magi’s depiction in one of my favourite Doom Metal songs: Black Stone Wielder by Candlemass! Solid riffs and an interesting story, basically they’re wizards that passed on their magical gift to the baby Jesus, super interesting ♥️
An amazing episode! The magi were my favorite part of the Christmas story when I was a kid. That's probably because they were portrayed in bright colors though! 😂 Thank you for all your work this year on the channel! I can't wait to see what you have planned for 2024!
This is too much Doc, we didn't get you anything yet here you are at the door with an hour-long video for our enjoyment! Can't wait for 2024, I don't know what will come next but I always know Esoterica will have something for me.
Thank you, Justin, again for this amazing opportunity to hear the philosophy and religious writings with your wisdom and diversity, and leaving me with more knowledge to comtempate with reflection. 🙏❤️🌎🌿🕊🎶🎵
I’m loving this, and I’m a big fan of your channel Dr.Sledge. I’d like to humbly make a request, could you do an episode on Simon Magus? This episode reminded me of him since he’s quite a significant Magi and figure in the gnostic tradition. I’m sure your analysis of him would be great. Thanks!
"There is a second, equally important task. That is to take faith very seriously. Not literally, but seriously." YES! Thank you so much for reiterating this.
Nothing less than 3 (Mario) Super Stars for you sir. Dearly appreciate you and your work. Sending a sincere 'Love ya man!' all the way for the South Bronx... P.S.: the Mario coin sound nearly killed me with laughter. So thanks for that too ☺️
One of my favorite apocryphal writings regarding the magi, a true antique: "-Your robes, give them to me. -I come bearing many gifts, but I assure you my robes are not among them. -What are you, some kind of wiseguy? -Well, actually, yes."
Thank you so much dr. Sledge, for another wonderful episode. It has been a perfect start to my Christmas (or rather yuletide) celebration. With your deep knowledge (both lived and studied) of jewish tradition and history, you give a fantastic perspective to christian mythos and traditions. A little bit from the outside, a lot of being on the same team as Jesus and his gang, and with a profound respect for us who actually belive in Jesus and the christian canon. But then you're not alone, as a several of my favourite scholars when studying christian theology were practicing jews. So once again, thank you for a great episode and for a fantastic channel.
Thanks for all the amazing content Dr. Sledge! It will be useful in my Tolkien dissertation focusing on Gandalf and enigmatic wizard figures in myth & pop culture at Pacifica Graduate Institute. I watch so many of your videos and love them!
In the "Revelation of the Magi" text, they go around following a comet, getting people high on manna from heaven, having visions all over the place, its a trip!
Sometimes I wonder just how much Persian history, including the magi, was lost due to both the greeks and Arabs trying to wipe their culture out. They were some of the most brilliant people in ancient times. Making batteries, tracking stars, understanding science and society far beyond others for the time. The Arabs destroyed their books. The Greeks buried their cities. And what’s left is the small percentage us descendants hold on to with our lives. There’s a tradition that every year on the longest night persians gather and tell stories. Sometimes I wonder if it’s in the faith to hold on to what we salvaged.
Thank you so much for a year of wisdom and insight. Your work of making this knowledge accessible has helped me to process my own experiences and trauma from growing up in and leaving a cult and understand the world around me even better. Your work has broadened my philosophical and moral horizons, and has left me with less fear and even more questions (dropped right onto my own pile of mysteries). Your openness about your struggles during the Satanic panic was eye-opening, as someone whose family and development has been shaped in part by it. I am especially grateful to you there. I hope you had a good Hanukkah and that the rest of the holiday season is merry and bright for you.
Thank you Dr. Sledge for the wonderful early Christmas present! I hope you've had a good Hanukkah, and please have a safe and peaceful Christmas as well! Peace and blessings upon you and your house! I thoroughly enjoyed your commentary on the Magi and the various ancient sources surrounding them. I also found the various tie-ins to astrology enlightening. I had read that the Greeks had some issues with Zoroastrians, and I think what you've said about astrology might have been part of the reason. You are a fascinating individual my friend, and you remind me of a friend of mine, so i do indeed enjoy your content, please keep it coming brother!
Thank you so much Dr.Sledge this was a very detailed,in depth and illuminating lecture/episode...thought I knew pretty much everything regarding the Magi and the Star of the East but I learned alot more today...anyways Happy Hanukkah 🕎 brother/Winter Solstice/Christmas/Yule etc and New Year's 😅 to you and ur loved ones...we appreciate all ur hard work and dedication u put into composing these lectures...and Peace be with you all no matter what traditions u do or do not celebrate I hope u enjoy the Holidays. Αλληλούια!Amen אָמֵן ✌
I love learning new things about what the heck I believe in and try to take the feeling of my dander rising as a queue to sit down, shut up, and listen. It's just historical data, not a blatant attack. I got so uncomfortable at one point that I considered clicking a different video and coming back to this one when I had more fortitude - my preconceived notions were REALLY upset for a minute, there. I'm glad I found the emotional courage to see the whole thing through to the end!
Such a great talk. So interesting and entertaining. Much appreciated. Your sense of humour is really uplifting. Laughed a lot. Learned a lot. Many thanks. Merry Mishmash and a Happy Third Gear to you and your family. Enjoy the Solstice.🙂
Truthfully your knowledge is great, this year has been awful and good at the same time, from my creative spark coming back and then losing my job and being unemployed for months has really been a roller coaster of emotions. Thank you for being such a lovely, wonderfully enlightening individual.
I love your work, and your right the episode on religion for breakfast about Zoroastrianism was very good, you both will be part of history next. happy holidays and longer days to come.
Thoroughly enjoyed the presentation. I saw the musical that came out about the birth story a few weeks ago. The only thing in it I could think about seriously was the magi. Two weeks later i see this, thank you God for bringing me knowledge.
A very interesting and little explored topic, these figures evoke a distant and little explored cultural landscape about their origin and the origin of magic in our vocabulary.
Jesus, in Revelation of John, is the Morning Star. In Isaiah the Morning Star is Lucifer, and he has so much more to say on the wonders at the Coming of the Messiah - of which almost nothing came to fruition. I love this video (and the Esoterica channel) and one thing I did was to order the Magi book of Vanden Eykel. Last bit of frivolous data: Zoroaster, has a literal Star (aster) in his name. There is so much more to this tale of the Magi, but Christmas is almost upon us and I have gifts and foods to buy. Bye!❤😂
In many Latin American countries, the day of the 3 kings ( día de reyes) is almost as important as Christmas day itself. Is usually celebrated on Jan 6. Is Hugely popular. Here in Puerto Rico the image of the colorfully clothed characters many times carrying our flag is a very powerful symbol of cultural identity.
Great, brief, overview. May I ask for future videos that include art, specifically paintings in this case, include citiation? The nativity paintings shown here...wow! just...wow! Finally, with regard to "the star," queue Diana Walsh Pasulka, which I'm not meaning to say is or isn't - you know what, for those of you familiar with DWPs work - but yeah, let that idea play with all the other theories/beliefs.
Though I forget the author, a sub-recent paper distilled the evidence, notably the descriptions given in the world's many creation myths, for a comet impact with the earth somewhen around 50-100 thousand years ago. The Babylonian myth of a dragon with two heads growing in the sky before consuming the earth and triggering global floods (Noah and the swirling arabian gulf) and tempests and fires, followed by darkness and disease etc (egypt) unfolds particularly compatibly with what a splitting comet nucleus might do if it struck earth (which it apparently did in the SE pacific).. the point is that since that time, a celestial component would be required in the most significant portents and it seems likely that cults would have been set up specifically to watch the sky for warnings of future such impactors.... dig your stuff, man
Ancient Astro Theological theories believe him to be a Leo. Hence his nickname "Lion of Judah" Manly P. Hall has a deep dive lecture on Astro Theology. Easy to find on YT
Thanks again for your in depth explanation about these topics. I've had a lot of religious confusion because of my upbringing. But the way you explain their origins, on a more academic level, has helped me a lot to be able to, as you put it, find my own star of peace within. So thanks again.🙏 I wish the best to you and yours
You've geeked out enough about RPGs on here that I have to ask if there's any favorites you're playing or looking at? And is there a forum or blog where you geek out on them? I'm watching for all the amazing history and analysis and I'd love to see some of your ideas about dice related fantasy as well.
Definitely my favorite of their settings! I could see how a love of historical theology and mysticism would tie well into the world where belief creates new subplanes. Fun!@@TheEsotericaChannel
Planescape was the best, though some of Monte Cook's other stuff has potential. Tony Diterlizzi went on to play a minor role in my own universe, doodling in a book for my newly born daughter. She'd later go on to have that doodle tattooed on her so she carries it everywhere... and since she & her husband work in Corrections, that Planescape depiction of Carceri (and the Harmonium!) seems particularly poignant.
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TY for the informative video! I'm curious to know more about the link from Christianity to esotericism.
What I mean is that in this story, we see the two brushing up against one another, but not really a connection. Is there a link from Christianity post-Nicaea to the occult? I want to say the Golden Dawn has Christian roots?
In a more practical sense, where does one begin, rather than studying in parallel, if that makes any sense. IOW, not learning all new material that seems otherwise disconnected, but maybe starting with something such as gematria, which (I assume?) can be applied to the canonical scriptures, once understood.
I appreciate that you take an academic approach. Happy Holidays 🎉, Merry Christmas 🎄 and Happy New Year 🎆 🎉
Why the comment about conspiracy theories and the Vatican library? So when you have a report to do, you go to the library to find the knowledge you seek. So a library which has been around for over 1500 years and controlled by a group who actually at one time had total control over all of western society. Yet, you throw in some bullshit remark. I'm an orphan and was not able to finish school and went to prison because I had the wrong type of business and uncle Sam wants his cut. After covid I'm really believe that most people who went to school and went to college have know critical thinking skills. How many fights does one have to have with an uninformed person about the dangers of gene therapeutics while I have all the data from the scientist who developed the tech. I'm listening very closely to what you say. There is something wrong with the world today and it all comes back to one group of racist who think they are chosen because their great, great, great..... grandfather learned how to right and made himself above all others. The same people see 10 wonders in Egypt yet when Moses walks away for a few moments, they melt their gold to worship a golden calf, baal. Question, where did the slaves get so much gold?
I'm a real thinker and spend my time doing that. Not watching TV, or listening to garbage sounds called music. I don't do drugs or drink, and I don't lie. I am not a republican or a Democrat but today in these days I lean heavily towards the conservatives. I was a soldier for the left and I see their lies and hate.
@@idontknowname-rl8yb Magi are a Persian tribe. Arrian records that they guarded the tombs of the emperors. They were all Persian and obviously associated with good astronomy. Magic is an import into Greek based on the tribe, whose system of divination was based on astrology.
There's a Philomena Cunk interview where she asks an expert "How many three wise men were there?" The expert responds with "Nobody really knows," which is the right answer, but it's played for laughs.
I think it was treated only half-jockingly. After they included her explanation for why nobody knows how many of them were
Its better to listen to the idea and story, and accept it is a story about our world that is trying to teach us something important, just like did a snake really talk in paradise about a magical fruit, or can a virgin give birth?
I literally had a video of her next to this video when I clicked it.
@@angelikaskoroszyn8495 Only half a jock? Meaning half an athlete or half a strap?
There should be a philosophical writing on the specialized use of faith and the use of intelligence, emotion, fact etc...or is there?
When my son was in preschool he came home excitingly telling me about the wise guys. Took me a while to realize he meant wise men.
How cute
Why is he learning about christianity in preschool? I would be concerned with the curriculum of that school/district. Indoctrinating christianity at a young age.
@@FolkenForeveralso liking ur own comment is pathetic
Liking your own comment is pretty based
@hundredbandzbulls if you weren't meant to it wouldn't be possible
As a Zoroastrian TH-camr, I wanted to say thank you for shining some light onto my religion in such a truthful way, and for wading through the absolute mess that is Zoroastrian studies to find that stuff out. I appreciated how well researched it was.
One thing I wanted to say is that it “Zoroaster”, Zarathushtra Spitama as he called himself, can’t have existed anytime near the Achaemenid dynasty of Iran. The language he spoke, Gathic Avestan, is extremely similar to the Sanskrit of the RgVeda, and it is dated to either the middle of the RgVedic period or the very beginning, all dependent on what level of phonological change one adopts. Who knows when exactly the RgVedic era is, but I don’t think anybody puts it after 1000 BC. Either way thank you for making this video, and if you ever need help working on a video on Zoroastrianism, I’d love to help! Also, the Gathas are a masterpiece of ancient poetry, composed by Zarathushtra himself, and are a great read. I would recommend the translations by Dr Stanley Insler and Dr Ali Jafarey.
Ushta te (may you have radiant happiness)
Thanks for this comment. And, yes, from one religious minority to another - I have great respect for Zoroastrianism and its adherents: a tremendously beautiful faith and tradition. But not, Zarathushtra was much, much before the adoption of his faith and reform by the western magi, for sure.
@@TheEsotericaChannel thank you for the kind words. In its own way, Zoroastrians and Jews being friendly feels like keeping a 2,500 year tradition alive. I agree about the Magi too, there are a lot of things debatably added by them that seem very contrary to the teachings of Zarathushtra, yet are still accepted by many even today. It’s all so fascinating 🙏
Much respect to you and your faith I always found it fascinating and inspiring and I'm glad it's traditions are kept alive
@Ashemvidam We know from the texts that they used original early Avestan, which puts the date of record at around 1600-1800 BC. The Romans and Greeks universally place Zoroaster either 6000 years before their time or 5000 years before the Trojan war. The problem with Muslims and rabbinicalists is that they project a late view of Zoroaster in a competitive bid for Abraham to be the first monotheist. Their problem is exacerbated by the fact that Abraham is from Ur of the Chaldees, a dynasty which existed at Ur in Iraq only between the 8th-6th centuries BC, which means that the earliest form of Judaism could not have existed before then. All material evidence points to Judaism being a 3rd century BC construction with all of the materials modern neo-rabbinicalists use dating to after the 9th century AD when their movement was first constructed. (they have no continuity with classical Judaism)
Greetings from the Saoshyant.
When I was 5 years old, I dressed as one of the "3 kings" for my school's nativity play. I had the choice of Joseph, but I wanted the chocolate gold coins...
I got to be the "little drummer boy"! (can't recall exactly what that represented)
@@keyscook my cousin was the donkey...
I really appreciate the idea of taking faith seriously but not literally. A studious approach to all the beliefs of the world can’t help but be beneficial. This is such an interesting and human story. This is also very entertaining
@@Dowlphin explain in simple terms
@@rockk9753would you say that about any other mythology
It seems ironic that I learn more about Christianity in an unbiased fashion from you, a Jewish scholar, than anywhere else. Thank you. I've long been distressed and disgusted by the antisemitism established early in the history of Christianity. I guess Christians didn't invent it but they sure have kept it alive and thriving. It never hurt anyone, you said. Right. I do appreciate your sarcasm. Thank you for your videos. I finally decided to comment. I've watched many of them and enjoy your presentations. You never come across as anti-christian and that speaks volumes on your character. May you and yours be blessed now and in the coming new year.
Same here
What did you think was going to happen? Strange comment.
@Toastrodamus A lot of christian content is either trying to prove that God exists or trying to debunk his existence. This is not fulfilling for everyone who wants to learn about the practices of various cultures.
The humor that you inject into your presentations is unequaled.
The Mr. T photo. Chef's kiss.
Loved this deep dive! I was raised in the Greek Orthodox tradition and treasure it…with ambivalence (I also have deep Manichaean tendencies). I’m grateful for perspective your on the Early Church Fathers and for clarifying much about Zoroastrian history in this video. I can’t wait for you to do a deep dive on Zoroastrianism!
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, and one "hot take" they had was that the Star of Bethlehem was none other than Satan. After all, he was the Morningstar, and the star did not lead the Magi to Jesus first, but to Herod, a man who would want Jesus to be killed. Therefore, JWs interpreted the star as malevolent, a demonic force wanting harm to come to Jesus. Sheltered as I was, I grew up assuming everyone thought this and did not understand why the "satanic" star would be featured so much in art and music.
JWs don't celebrate Christmas (they believe Jesus was born around September and birthdays are pagan) so as a kid, I truly didn't understand a lot of the symbols I saw around town. I wrote many school essays on what the symbols of holly, reindeer, mistletoe, etc. might mean (days before the internet, so this was library research) as well as the literary change from Magi to Three Kings, all from an academic and historical perspective. Thankfully, my family wasn't living in the South at that time, so none of my liberal-minded teachers took these essays as an "attack on Christmas." (My Arkansas cousins got punished for doing the same thing.) Instead, my teachers saw it as this little kid questioning holiday traditions from an outsider's perspective.
It was the start of my journey questioning and researching many cultural beliefs, mythologies, legends, and traditions. Always question, "Why do people believe this?" However, while my teachers enjoyed my deep dives, my habit of always questioning "why" got me in trouble with the JW elders, who publicly scolded me for daring to question doctrine. I don't want to be in any religion that punishes a curious mind.
Satan has nothing to do with the guiding star. God has his hand in everything,as well as the fact that the Magi did not return to Herod to insure Herod would not have knowledge were and when the Son of God our Lord Jesus Christ to insure the salvation of all who come to the Father through the Son. This is not some myth, and I will pray for all those in danger of hell fire. Praise be to God Almighty!
The church fathers’ writing as an RPG manual is absolutely hilarious
Stoneworks here? Damn, now esoterica is blessed
"It's all LARP?"
Samael: "Always has been."
I grew up in Puerto Rico, and in our household in the mid 70s when I was a child, and as far as I can remember thanks to our parents especially my father, we used to celebrate “Los Tres Reyes Magos” which translates as “The Three Magi Kings”... I didn’t know who Santa Claus or Christmas was until I was an adolescent in the 80s. That’s when the tradition of the three magi kings started dying in our household.
Thanks for sharing this informative video with us it was most interesting!
Same, in our house we don't celebrate Christmas, just three kings day on Jan 5.
@@axelrivera6020 Yes the Three Magi Kings were our Santa Clause
Peurto Rico has tons of "stars" that can be followed.
Historically, in both East and West, Epiphany or Theophany was the more important holiday. Christmas being a big thing was the result of Luther.
Did you leave grass out for the wise men's camels?
This is an excellent lecture. Thank you for sharing your scholarship! Even if you are not a Christian, you present these ideas in a neutral, yet respectful manner. You have my respect.
Generalizing entire religions as "mythology" is hardly respectful, but it's a great video regardless.
@@SquizzMe Mythology is a completely neutral term academically. It essentially refers to a genre
@@SquizzMe mythology is actually a theory not true or false since many believe it, so it's ok to refer it as a myth since faith alone it's need it
@@lxDastanxl No?
That's not what I meant. Myth as a genre refers to stories of divine beings, those who they oppose, and how they alter nature and civilization
@@rudolfambrozenvtuber lol that's true I got confused my explanation is about legend not myth
Another stellar presentation, Doc. When hearing the Magi and the Star of Bethlehem story, I think of Arthur C. Clarke's THE STAR, where a Vatican astronomer goes in search of the star, or supernova, that God used to herald Jesus' birth. Its conclusion is definitely not what the reader expects.
The 1980s Twilight Zone show made an episode of that story.
That story has lived rent free in my brain since I first read it - in high school English class of all places.
Idk about that story, but many Catholic theologians, including Saint Thomas Aquinas, defended that the Star who guided the Magi was an Angel, so that's not problematic for us
5 mins in, I already know this is gonna be a certified hood classic
Wisdom, Joy and Peace to you, Dr. Sledge.
What's so strange about this is, all during my life (im mid 50's in age), the term "Magi" was never used. It was always "3 Kings, 3 Wise Men, 3 Wise Kings from the East". When I found out (stumbled upon in wikipedia) that the real title was "Biblical Magi"....I was baffled. Never ever heard them called that prior.
Maybe thats the case for some others too ?
Not for us in hispanic countries, though. Los Tres Reyes Magos (The three Magi Kings) brought us gifts every year before the popularization of the americanized Santa Claus
ah, ok. thanks for the comment and info. Magi King huh ?! wow, interesting.@@enzocompanbadillo5365
I heard the names "Melchior, Gaspar, and Belthasar" for the first time from playing Chrono Trigger, years before I learned they were the names of the three magi in the birth of Jesus myth, being raised in an Atheist household. To this day I still associate them prominently with CT whenever I read or hear anything about them. I have a lot of great memories of that game. It was perhaps the single most formative piece of media in my tastes for not only videogames, but fantasy fiction in all forms, as well as mythology and allegory.
lol. My son-in-law is Persian.
Although he’s technically Muslim he happily helps us put his “ cousins” up in the manger scene every year.
That has become his job. 😊
This page is a gem, truly. I mean modern day library of Alexandria type stuff. I get that it can be overwhelming but I feel blessed to have found your page. Some of the stuff is hard to remember or hold onto knowledge wise, a lot of it feels like a map being written of a world unseen while my eyes are fixated on a different world all the time. In the end thank you.
You, uh, didn't watch his Library of Alexandria video, did you?
Thanks for all the work you do making these! May the next year be great.
This is very fortuitous timing. A friend of mine just posted asking about this & whether it was 3 kings or 3 Wise Men because the bible is so inconsistent. The responses were mainly people telling her what term their family used & then devolved into a thread of 2 people copy/pasting bible verses at each other as if that was the mic drop that ended all discussion. Anyway, I sent this video to her with a warning that it was a lot lol.
"Messiah: the game where nobody wins!" 🤣 I love this channel, your voice is so pleasant and I appreciate that the videos are very calm and slower paced but still packed with information. I find some other producer's styles to be a little overstimulating and I am too old for that lol!! Thank you so much for teaching Esotericism this way.
Dr Justin, I am an Episcopal Deacon who follows you for the insightful images you present. I've been in situations where I'm able to preach once a month. My preparation will always find me looking for viewpoints and commentaries outside of the normal Christian publications that are "recommended" reading. Your subjects have led me to some deep introspection that allow me to present other views and possibilities which add to the discussions held during the Coffee Hour that follows the Service. You've also contributed to some responses by our priest in his sermons the following week. This coming Sunday being so close to the Epiphany will allow me to use some of your imagery in a Homily focused on the star. The writings of Ignatius of Antioch with his heavy metal anthem will be sure to headline my own writing. I'll avoid using the hand symbol associated with metal music to avoid being accussed of spreading anti-Christian messages.😉 Thank you for awesome videos! Pax et Bonum!
I am delighted to hear that anything I create can also help to be spiritual food for the faithful - despite my own skepticism. The story of the Magi is very powerful and what analysis I bring to the table can be beneficial to the skeptical and faithful alike. Many thanks for your kind words!
Magic as always Dr. Sledge, Christmas came early with this gift of a video!
Your dry humor at the end, man that got me chuckling. Merry Christmas and happy chanukah.
I for one enjoy these long, deep dives into interesting topics. Keep on truckin’ Dr Sledge!
" Gandalf like wizards with thier hats and bears that appear everywhere "
* sounds like you doctor Sledge 👍🏼
First time I’ve seen one of your videos. Like a breath of fresh air. (And using Mr.T as the image for gold made me more than a little happy on this ‘Christmas Day’ in Japan.)
Thanks again for bringing a relentless scholarly rigour and depth that, along with your dry wit and clarity, opens up the fascinating depths of things I haven't thought of for many years, or at all.
Thanks for making the Shabbat before Christmas especially sweet.
I gotta talk about the magi’s depiction in one of my favourite Doom Metal songs: Black Stone Wielder by Candlemass! Solid riffs and an interesting story, basically they’re wizards that passed on their magical gift to the baby Jesus, super interesting ♥️
Kinda Santa Claus via L Frank Baum
An amazing episode! The magi were my favorite part of the Christmas story when I was a kid. That's probably because they were portrayed in bright colors though! 😂 Thank you for all your work this year on the channel! I can't wait to see what you have planned for 2024!
Yeah they definitely have the best costumes!
@@TheEsotericaChannel Interesting how they're depicted wearing Phrygian hats and then suddenly they're kings with crowns and an army.
You have a very interesting and informative channel and I appreciate your delivery. Respectful, but questioning -- always good!
Love the way you wrapped it up at the end! Another job well done 👍🏼 Peace, Dr. Sledge!
This is very quickly becoming one of my favorite channels.
As a literature PhD who wrote my dissertation on fanfiction.... I love your references to it here. Completely accurate. :)
This is too much Doc, we didn't get you anything yet here you are at the door with an hour-long video for our enjoyment!
Can't wait for 2024, I don't know what will come next but I always know Esoterica will have something for me.
Thank you, Justin, again for this amazing opportunity to hear the philosophy and religious writings with your wisdom and diversity, and leaving me with more knowledge to comtempate with reflection.
🙏❤️🌎🌿🕊🎶🎵
I enjoyed your overview on these confluent topics. Thanks!
Thank you Dr. Sledge. The more I watch the more I appreciate what you do.
Thanks for all the fascinating videos about rtopics like this!
"Messiah...the game where everyone loses." Classic Dr. ledge commentary.
I’m loving this, and I’m a big fan of your channel Dr.Sledge.
I’d like to humbly make a request, could you do an episode on Simon Magus?
This episode reminded me of him since he’s quite a significant Magi and figure in the gnostic tradition. I’m sure your analysis of him would be great. Thanks!
What a fun thing to listen to on Christmas Eve! Thank you!
"There is a second, equally important task. That is to take faith very seriously. Not literally, but seriously." YES! Thank you so much for reiterating this.
“Just to be clear, this frankincense is for Christmas AND your birthday.”
“JC Literal Superstar” 😂
Hoping some screenwriters are watching this stellar episode.
Merry Xmas, Justin. 🤘🏻
A another wonderful video. Thank you Dr.Sledge. Have a blessed holiday.
Nothing less than 3 (Mario) Super Stars for you sir. Dearly appreciate you and your work. Sending a sincere 'Love ya man!' all the way for the South Bronx...
P.S.: the Mario coin sound nearly killed me with laughter. So thanks for that too ☺️
Yesss! I've been waiting for this one! Can't wait to listen when I get off work! You're awesome Doc! Keep up the great work 🤝
One of my favorite apocryphal writings regarding the magi, a true antique:
"-Your robes, give them to me.
-I come bearing many gifts, but I assure you my robes are not among them.
-What are you, some kind of wiseguy?
-Well, actually, yes."
Did not expect a mad TV sketch to be in the comments
Thank you so much dr. Sledge, for another wonderful episode. It has been a perfect start to my Christmas (or rather yuletide) celebration.
With your deep knowledge (both lived and studied) of jewish tradition and history, you give a fantastic perspective to christian mythos and traditions. A little bit from the outside, a lot of being on the same team as Jesus and his gang, and with a profound respect for us who actually belive in Jesus and the christian canon. But then you're not alone, as a several of my favourite scholars when studying christian theology were practicing jews.
So once again, thank you for a great episode and for a fantastic channel.
Oh, and calling the apocryphal texts fanfics is BRILLIANT!
Such an amazing lecture! Thank you for sharing your expertise, something I always wanted to learn.
Thanks for all the amazing content Dr. Sledge! It will be useful in my Tolkien dissertation focusing on Gandalf and enigmatic wizard figures in myth & pop culture at Pacifica Graduate Institute. I watch so many of your videos and love them!
In the "Revelation of the Magi" text, they go around following a comet, getting people high on manna from heaven, having visions all over the place, its a trip!
Thank you. I will never stop learning.
Excellent thanks. The seven nation army magi made me chuckle out loud because I immediately heard and pictured it
Sometimes I wonder just how much Persian history, including the magi, was lost due to both the greeks and Arabs trying to wipe their culture out. They were some of the most brilliant people in ancient times. Making batteries, tracking stars, understanding science and society far beyond others for the time. The Arabs destroyed their books. The Greeks buried their cities. And what’s left is the small percentage us descendants hold on to with our lives. There’s a tradition that every year on the longest night persians gather and tell stories. Sometimes I wonder if it’s in the faith to hold on to what we salvaged.
I’ve been thinking the same thing. Apparently even Pythagoras stayed in Persian as a court philosopher when in exile
Maybe the Magi were an early Prog Metal band on tour in search of a singer. I really enjoyed this episode, but it's Festivus for the rest of us.
Thank you so much for a year of wisdom and insight. Your work of making this knowledge accessible has helped me to process my own experiences and trauma from growing up in and leaving a cult and understand the world around me even better.
Your work has broadened my philosophical and moral horizons, and has left me with less fear and even more questions (dropped right onto my own pile of mysteries).
Your openness about your struggles during the Satanic panic was eye-opening, as someone whose family and development has been shaped in part by it. I am especially grateful to you there.
I hope you had a good Hanukkah and that the rest of the holiday season is merry and bright for you.
Comments like this make my day. Thanks so much!
Thank you Dr. Sledge for the wonderful early Christmas present! I hope you've had a good Hanukkah, and please have a safe and peaceful Christmas as well! Peace and blessings upon you and your house! I thoroughly enjoyed your commentary on the Magi and the various ancient sources surrounding them. I also found the various tie-ins to astrology enlightening. I had read that the Greeks had some issues with Zoroastrians, and I think what you've said about astrology might have been part of the reason.
You are a fascinating individual my friend, and you remind me of a friend of mine, so i do indeed enjoy your content, please keep it coming brother!
Thank you so much Dr.Sledge this was a very detailed,in depth and illuminating lecture/episode...thought I knew pretty much everything regarding the Magi and the Star of the East but I learned alot more today...anyways Happy Hanukkah 🕎 brother/Winter Solstice/Christmas/Yule etc and New Year's 😅 to you and ur loved ones...we appreciate all ur hard work and dedication u put into composing these lectures...and Peace be with you all no matter what traditions u do or do not celebrate I hope u enjoy the Holidays.
Αλληλούια!Amen אָמֵן ✌
Happy Summer Solstice 🇦🇺🙂
@@TheKrispyfort 🤣good one...thts crazy to think in the Southern Hemisphere you all are in Summer celebrating the Holidays upside down
May we all find our shining star. Thank you Dr Sledge
That was a lot of information to unpack! Excellent. Happy holidays.
I don't think Mr T intended his picture to be used in this story😂
I love learning new things about what the heck I believe in and try to take the feeling of my dander rising as a queue to sit down, shut up, and listen. It's just historical data, not a blatant attack. I got so uncomfortable at one point that I considered clicking a different video and coming back to this one when I had more fortitude - my preconceived notions were REALLY upset for a minute, there. I'm glad I found the emotional courage to see the whole thing through to the end!
Such a great talk. So interesting and entertaining. Much appreciated. Your sense of humour is really uplifting. Laughed a lot. Learned a lot. Many thanks. Merry Mishmash and a Happy Third Gear to you and your family. Enjoy the Solstice.🙂
Truthfully your knowledge is great, this year has been awful and good at the same time, from my creative spark coming back and then losing my job and being unemployed for months has really been a roller coaster of emotions.
Thank you for being such a lovely, wonderfully enlightening individual.
I'm sorry to hear about your trouble and wish you a wonderful new year!
@@TheEsotericaChannel thank you, and all the same to you!
Another banger, Dr Sledge. Thanks as always.
Can't wait for next year when we learn that the Little Drummer Boy was a proto-sufi inventing dhikr.
Such a great episode, many thanks ... Peace and good will to all ❤
One of my favorite yt channels! Thank you Justin and have a great holiday, from Denmark
I love this topic but I'll come back to this when I feel like watching a 50 min video
Excellent video! Another thorough and informative analysis. You combine scholarship and enthusiasm with great skill.
I love your work, and your right the episode on religion for breakfast about Zoroastrianism was very good, you both will be part of history next. happy holidays and longer days to come.
My man, this channel is great, every single vídeo that I saw is great. Congratulations.
Thank you for the great work and fantastic content, very informative and important
Random observation: I absolutely adore the set of marquetry boxes in your collection.
They're Japanese puzzle boxes!
Thoroughly enjoyed the presentation. I saw the musical that came out about the birth story a few weeks ago. The only thing in it I could think about seriously was the magi. Two weeks later i see this, thank you God for bringing me knowledge.
As someone who has written roleplaying game manuals, I'm now seriously considering getting into publishing religious doctrine.
Delightfully eloquent. I have been able to learn from your work here. Thank you!
My name is actually dedicated to one of the three magi, Kaspar, as it is. :)
A very interesting and little explored topic, these figures evoke a distant and little explored cultural landscape about their origin and the origin of magic in our vocabulary.
Brilliantly Done! I thoroughly enjoyed this explanation and all the variations on a theme. ❤
So sad to hear the names of these beautiful and meaningful places, knowing that they are being destroyed by bombs and hate.😪
As usual a wonderful and informative show. Thank you Justin
The most legit Dr out there. Thanks for sharing your experience with the world.
I was not expecting that white stripes reference and it's greatly appreciated 😂
Jesus, in Revelation of John, is the Morning Star. In Isaiah the Morning Star is Lucifer, and he has so much more to say on the wonders at the Coming of the Messiah - of which almost nothing came to fruition. I love this video (and the Esoterica channel) and one thing I did was to order the Magi book of Vanden Eykel.
Last bit of frivolous data: Zoroaster, has a literal Star (aster) in his name. There is so much more to this tale of the Magi, but Christmas is almost upon us and I have gifts and foods to buy. Bye!❤😂
Zarathustra
Please tell more, this sounds very interesting.
Someday I will publish my book, but that time has not come yet. But thanks for the interest. @@Nozarks1
@@itwillendintears lovely. Good luck in your endeavor. Please let me know when you do.
As a Christian away from family for Christmas, thanks for reading me some of the Christmas story. 👍
In many Latin American countries, the day of the 3 kings ( día de reyes) is almost as important as Christmas day itself. Is usually celebrated on Jan 6. Is Hugely popular. Here in Puerto Rico the image of the colorfully clothed characters many times carrying our flag is a very powerful symbol of cultural identity.
Thank You for the context Dr Sledge
Great, brief, overview.
May I ask for future videos that include art, specifically paintings in this case, include citiation? The nativity paintings shown here...wow! just...wow!
Finally, with regard to "the star," queue Diana Walsh Pasulka, which I'm not meaning to say is or isn't - you know what, for those of you familiar with DWPs work - but yeah, let that idea play with all the other theories/beliefs.
Though I forget the author, a sub-recent paper distilled the evidence, notably the descriptions given in the world's many creation myths, for a comet impact with the earth somewhen around 50-100 thousand years ago. The Babylonian myth of a dragon with two heads growing in the sky before consuming the earth and triggering global floods (Noah and the swirling arabian gulf) and tempests and fires, followed by darkness and disease etc (egypt) unfolds particularly compatibly with what a splitting comet nucleus might do if it struck earth (which it apparently did in the SE pacific).. the point is that since that time, a celestial component would be required in the most significant portents and it seems likely that cults would have been set up specifically to watch the sky for warnings of future such impactors.... dig your stuff, man
Personally, I like the supposed Chinese astrological observation that has Jesus as a Pisces 🐟♊
Ancient Astro Theological theories believe him to be a Leo. Hence his nickname "Lion of Judah"
Manly P. Hall has a deep dive lecture on Astro Theology. Easy to find on YT
Thanks again for your in depth explanation about these topics. I've had a lot of religious confusion because of my upbringing. But the way you explain their origins, on a more academic level, has helped me a lot to be able to, as you put it, find my own star of peace within. So thanks again.🙏 I wish the best to you and yours
There's nothing you can say to take me away from Magi. There's nothing you can do cause Im stuck like glue to Magi. - Mary Wells
You've geeked out enough about RPGs on here that I have to ask if there's any favorites you're playing or looking at? And is there a forum or blog where you geek out on them? I'm watching for all the amazing history and analysis and I'd love to see some of your ideas about dice related fantasy as well.
Planescape in AD&D
Definitely my favorite of their settings! I could see how a love of historical theology and mysticism would tie well into the world where belief creates new subplanes. Fun!@@TheEsotericaChannel
Planescape was the best, though some of Monte Cook's other stuff has potential. Tony Diterlizzi went on to play a minor role in my own universe, doodling in a book for my newly born daughter. She'd later go on to have that doodle tattooed on her so she carries it everywhere... and since she & her husband work in Corrections, that Planescape depiction of Carceri (and the Harmonium!) seems particularly poignant.
Great video! I love your work. I am in awe of the breadth and depth of your knowledge.
Dr Justin you have the best driest sense of humour, love it. Of course all the rest of your content as well