Suggestion to those that are going to do this: when you have those axle bolts out, use some anti-seize or marine grease on the non-threaded areas of the bolt. That'll prevent those bolts from seizing in the bushing in the leaf spring. Nice work Andy.
This is a super investment. - I installed a set on my old 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 383 Convertible, amd it was an awsome upgrade!! - The car because it was a convertible , the body become much stiffer and with some other upgrades too, the car was a blast to drive. - Thank you Andy, I will do the same with resto of my 1970 Cougar Convertible.
I am a HUGE ford fan. Been restoring these old Mustangs for 40 years. Never understood the reasoning behind the unibody frame. You would think after 65, and 66, they would realize the problems. And change to full frames. But, nope. Still making them. I don't get it.
More predictable to my driving! Andy I’ve been trying to keep up. Your welding is looking better than mine, my 1965 FB is still in the build stages but the simplicity of your videos gives me hope! I’ve got a two year goal, not wavering! Thanks for your input
I’ve done all the same suspension upgrades as you and I can tell a big difference in the handling but the best upgrade I did was putting Koni Street shocks on the front and rear. I would highly recommend as the budget allows.
@@AndyKruseChannel Are you sure? Load path from the front suspension (assuming no front torque boxes) is front frame rails to footwell/cowl to rocker panels. Rocker panels back to rear torque boxes to rear suspension. The wider your can disperse the torsional loads the better. So although it seems logical to just tie the subframes together the reality is for torsional loads going through the rockers and torque boxes is actually better.
I'm not arguing the impact torque boxes have on the torsional load of the car, but these bars are meant to improve the torsional rigidity from the front half to the rear half of the car. Relying on the floor pan to do the work is not ideal.
Andy...Thanks for the video. I am about to order these...but wanted to know if you would recommend. you mentioned you would give an update because you didnt know if they would do their job.
This is one of those parts that most people won't be able to tell the improvement made to the car. I look at it like it's part of a larger modification. Meaning, the subframe connectors, plus additional chassis stiffening, plus larger sway bar, plus panhard bar, plus better suspension, etc, all add up to a better handling car. While this car will not out perform most of today's sportscars, it's a massive improvement over what came from the factory, and that's what I'm trying to do. To speak on these specific bars vs other brands, I chose these due to their ease of installation and price. If I had it to do all over again, I might pick a different brand, but those other brands would be more expensive and require more effort during the installation. It's things like brand B is harder to install, costs 3-4x more, offers maybe 10-20% more rigidity, and is 2 months out compared to brand A (what I have here) that was on the shelf, can bolt in or weld in (I recommend weld in), and fit everyone's budget. :)
Hey , love all your video, working on Mercury cougar 69 in France and want to know. Did you need the remove the battery or gas from the car before welding ?
Nope, not for stuff like this. You could remove the ground for the battery if you were concerned, but it's fine. Maybe if you were welding near the gas tank (like right next to it), it might be worth exploring the options to remove the fuel, but it's fine as long as you're not welding to the gas tank. :)
@@benzin47mon ami the mercury cougar is such a Beautiful car. Well done. Respect from Fiji. My uni rugby team coach was a Frenchman who was also the coach for Stanford university during their playing season. Best wishes! #V8Freedom
@@AndyKruseChannel doing mine this fall on my 68 coupe... Andy, curious why you did not weld the back ?? I'm hearing only good things about the subframe connectors for the mustangs , I had them on my 97 convertible back in the day and it was NIGHT AND DAY !
@@Ralphis1970 I need to weld the back ends, but I think I might need to do some patch work to the frame back there, so I was holding off until I determine what I need to do. :)
Hi Andy. Thanks for sharing. I installed my CPP subframe connectors on my 65 FB. They are bolted in. I had no idea to weld them up will even better than just bolted. Have you notice a difference? I will visit my local muffler shop. Guido 👍🏼
Because these braces are reducing the torsion of the chassis between the front and rear frame rails, the holes that the bolts go through will be stressed over time. This will reduce the stiffness of the connection as the bolts begin to move about within those holes. The weld bars still see the same stress, but the welds will maintain the stiffness as there's no moving parts or connections that can be moved. I put these same bars on my last Mustang, but I didn't have the car long enough to observe the effects of the bolted connection. I'm in the same boat with this car, I haven't had them installed long enough to notice the welded connection. I have also upgraded so many suspension related components that it's getting difficult to notice the changes I make as everything is "stacking up" and the car is tightening up over the soft stock setup. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel my set up rack and pinion. CPP UCA&LCA. Global west 600 lbs coil springs Bilstein Sports shocks all the way around. Reverse mid leafs (4.5.) 1 inch sway. Monte Carlo The biggest improvement I have seen over everything is the CPP Mini subframe delete caster rods and bushings. I can’t rec this enough. My car sticks in the turns. I don’t have torque boxes. But I feel I don’t need them after doing that mini front frame.
@@luckyluciano4968 Nope, I do not have a rear sway bar and I currently don't plan to add one. I had arear sway on my previous Mustang, but after learning about Panhard Bars, I'll probably never think about them again (for Classic Mustangs). :)
Is it a noticeable improvement in the handling of your Stang? I guess I've really never noticed the flex in my Mach 1 but I am considering doing these as well..
I think it would take a trained driver to notice the difference, but that doesn't mean it's not helping each time you drive. I look at this part as just one piece of many that I need to make this car handle better than it did in the 60's. :)
Do you think those subframe connectors would interfere with a Hellwig rear sway bar? Does it come close to your rear panhard bar? Thanks for the reply earlier also! 'EDIT: OK i looked at your other video installing the panhard bar at it looks like the connectors will not interfere with swaybar or panhard bar.
I had these same subframe braces (but I bolted them instead of welding them) on my last car where I had the Hellwig rear sway, no issues at all. The panhard bar is even farther away from these subframe braces, so you're ready to rock!
These connect the front frame with the rear frame, instead of relying on the unibody to do the work. You might be thinking of the lower crossmember that connects the two front frame rails to each other?
![[Part 4] หนุ่มน้อยรักคุณย่ายิ่งกว่าใคร ไม่ว่าใครก็รังแกดูถูกท่านไม่ได้!! #โลกการละคร](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sLsBxw99FR0/mqdefault.jpg)
Suggestion to those that are going to do this: when you have those axle bolts out, use some anti-seize or marine grease on the non-threaded areas of the bolt. That'll prevent those bolts from seizing in the bushing in the leaf spring. Nice work Andy.
Good advice, I should have mentioned that. :)
This is a super investment. - I installed a set on my old 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 383 Convertible, amd it was an awsome upgrade!! - The car because it was a convertible , the body become much stiffer and with some other upgrades too, the car was a blast to drive. - Thank you Andy, I will do the same with resto of my 1970 Cougar Convertible.
Yeah, these parts are great. It's always cool how one part can drastically change the car. :)
I am a HUGE ford fan. Been restoring these old Mustangs for 40 years. Never understood the reasoning behind the unibody frame. You would think after 65, and 66, they would realize the problems. And change to full frames. But, nope. Still making them. I don't get it.
I never understood it either. :)
Nice project. Subframes are incredibly important for these vehicles with all the flex.
Agreed!
More predictable to my driving! Andy I’ve been trying to keep up. Your welding is looking better than mine, my 1965 FB is still in the build stages but the simplicity of your videos gives me hope!
I’ve got a two year goal, not wavering! Thanks for your input
You can do it!
Good Job Andy. Thumbs Up
Thanks 👍
I’ve done all the same suspension upgrades as you and I can tell a big difference in the handling but the best upgrade I did was putting Koni Street shocks on the front and rear. I would highly recommend as the budget allows.
Yes, good shocks can go along way. :)
I'm very happy with my weld in tinman subframe connectors and in general they're a great upgrade
Yeah, there are lots of good brands out there. :)
That intro is 🔥🔥🔥
Thanks!
Great video! I will be doing that as well.
You should, I don't think you'll be disappointed. :)
Torque boxes may do more than subframe connectors. More work but then the rockers tie both ends together.
Strong torque boxes would help, but they don't impact how the back half of the car works with respect to the front half. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Are you sure? Load path from the front suspension (assuming no front torque boxes) is front frame rails to footwell/cowl to rocker panels. Rocker panels back to rear torque boxes to rear suspension. The wider your can disperse the torsional loads the better. So although it seems logical to just tie the subframes together the reality is for torsional loads going through the rockers and torque boxes is actually better.
I'm not arguing the impact torque boxes have on the torsional load of the car, but these bars are meant to improve the torsional rigidity from the front half to the rear half of the car. Relying on the floor pan to do the work is not ideal.
good video thanks Andy
Glad you enjoyed it
Fuck, the sound of your tires settling on the floor scared me! Good job Andy!
It's all part of the show, need to dramatize everything to keep you hooked!
Andy...Thanks for the video. I am about to order these...but wanted to know if you would recommend. you mentioned you would give an update because you didnt know if they would do their job.
This is one of those parts that most people won't be able to tell the improvement made to the car. I look at it like it's part of a larger modification. Meaning, the subframe connectors, plus additional chassis stiffening, plus larger sway bar, plus panhard bar, plus better suspension, etc, all add up to a better handling car. While this car will not out perform most of today's sportscars, it's a massive improvement over what came from the factory, and that's what I'm trying to do.
To speak on these specific bars vs other brands, I chose these due to their ease of installation and price. If I had it to do all over again, I might pick a different brand, but those other brands would be more expensive and require more effort during the installation. It's things like brand B is harder to install, costs 3-4x more, offers maybe 10-20% more rigidity, and is 2 months out compared to brand A (what I have here) that was on the shelf, can bolt in or weld in (I recommend weld in), and fit everyone's budget. :)
Thanks
No problem
Hey , love all your video, working on Mercury cougar 69 in France and want to know. Did you need the remove the battery or gas from the car before welding ?
Nope, not for stuff like this. You could remove the ground for the battery if you were concerned, but it's fine. Maybe if you were welding near the gas tank (like right next to it), it might be worth exploring the options to remove the fuel, but it's fine as long as you're not welding to the gas tank. :)
Thx a lot, need to do a weld on the rear fender.
@@benzin47mon ami the mercury cougar is such a Beautiful car. Well done. Respect from Fiji. My uni rugby team coach was a Frenchman who was also the coach for Stanford university during their playing season. Best wishes! #V8Freedom
Nice work Andy!
Thank you! Cheers!
@@AndyKruseChannel no problem.
I put those bars in. I used the bolts and then welded both ends. Tommy
How do you like them? Did you notice any difference in how the car felt or handled?
@@AndyKruseChannel doing mine this fall on my 68 coupe... Andy, curious why you did not weld the back ?? I'm hearing only good things about the subframe connectors for the mustangs , I had them on my 97 convertible back in the day and it was NIGHT AND DAY !
@@Ralphis1970 I need to weld the back ends, but I think I might need to do some patch work to the frame back there, so I was holding off until I determine what I need to do. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Smart man then ;-) great videos by the way. Appreciated that you take the time to do so.
Hi Andy. Thanks for sharing. I installed my CPP subframe connectors on my 65 FB. They are bolted in. I had no idea to weld them up will even better than just bolted. Have you notice a difference? I will visit my local muffler shop. Guido 👍🏼
Because these braces are reducing the torsion of the chassis between the front and rear frame rails, the holes that the bolts go through will be stressed over time. This will reduce the stiffness of the connection as the bolts begin to move about within those holes. The weld bars still see the same stress, but the welds will maintain the stiffness as there's no moving parts or connections that can be moved.
I put these same bars on my last Mustang, but I didn't have the car long enough to observe the effects of the bolted connection. I'm in the same boat with this car, I haven't had them installed long enough to notice the welded connection. I have also upgraded so many suspension related components that it's getting difficult to notice the changes I make as everything is "stacking up" and the car is tightening up over the soft stock setup. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel my set up rack and pinion. CPP UCA&LCA. Global west 600 lbs coil springs Bilstein Sports shocks all the way around. Reverse mid leafs (4.5.) 1 inch sway. Monte Carlo
The biggest improvement I have seen over everything is the CPP Mini subframe delete caster rods and bushings. I can’t rec this enough. My car sticks in the turns. I don’t have torque boxes. But I feel I don’t need them after doing that mini front frame.
Sounds like a pretty good list. Wait until you install a Panhard Bar, it'll change your life. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel but I am not running a rear sway bar. I didn’t like the mounting fixtures it came with. Are you running rear sway?
@@luckyluciano4968 Nope, I do not have a rear sway bar and I currently don't plan to add one. I had arear sway on my previous Mustang, but after learning about Panhard Bars, I'll probably never think about them again (for Classic Mustangs). :)
If I install these before I cutout the floor pans would it keep my car from warping?
Maybe, these would need to be welded to have any chance of helping reduce the warping during the pan install. :)
I thought sure this would be the electric power steering install video. :-)
Don't tempt me!!
@@AndyKruseChannel TEMPT! TEMPT!
Is it a noticeable improvement in the handling of your Stang? I guess I've really never noticed the flex in my Mach 1 but I am considering doing these as well..
I think it would take a trained driver to notice the difference, but that doesn't mean it's not helping each time you drive. I look at this part as just one piece of many that I need to make this car handle better than it did in the 60's. :)
Did you do any welding at the rear of the subframe connector where it fits near the leaf spring or is that really necessary?
I think people can weld that in place there and it would be a better connection. I elected to bolt it in as I wasn't sure about my future plans.
Do you think those subframe connectors would interfere with a Hellwig rear sway bar? Does it come close to your rear panhard bar? Thanks for the reply earlier also!
'EDIT: OK i looked at your other video installing the panhard bar at it looks like the connectors will not interfere with swaybar or panhard bar.
I had these same subframe braces (but I bolted them instead of welding them) on my last car where I had the Hellwig rear sway, no issues at all. The panhard bar is even farther away from these subframe braces, so you're ready to rock!
Are you going to upgrade to a ‘Z Ray’ engine crossmember? Would be interested in seeing you do a video on that.
I have thought about it, but it's expensive and I have a lot of items still on the list. :)
Andy, what type of jack stands are you using? 3 ton? I heard about harbor f issues with past jacks. Thanks
The cheap ones. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel cool than I’ll buy your quick jack :p.
The tab you had to bend a bit at the rear does what?. It doesn't seem to have a purpose.
I wonder if it’s for other models? Or possibly to be bolted in? But I agree, it seems to be useless. 😁
Maybe support so the bolt won’t shear off?
under engine brace?
These connect the front frame with the rear frame, instead of relying on the unibody to do the work. You might be thinking of the lower crossmember that connects the two front frame rails to each other?