Why Don't I Talk About INDIAN MOTORCYCLES? Do I HATE Them?
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Some of you may have noticed that while I talk a lot about Harley - Davidson, there's one other American motorcycle company that's suspiciously absent from my channel. Why don't I talk about INDIAN MOTORCYCLES?
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00:00 - Intro
01:05 - Please Don't Be Mad!
02:01 - My History With Indian
04:24 - Indian's History (Not impressed...)
08:15 - Why So UGLY???
11:48 - What About The FTR?
14:14 - The Biggest Problem... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
What do you guys think about Indian Motorcycles? Should I review them on the channel? Don't forget to check out Cardo's 4th of July sale! 20% off with the code SPITE10: bit.ly/3IUZ1hM
I agree with every single point you made. I’m probably one of 5 Harley riders who actually watched this video because most don’t bother as soon as they see “Indian” in the thumbnail. Don’t be taken aback by all the upset Indian riders in the comments. You knew that was going to happen. I personally just can’t get excited over an Indian motorcycle. They just do absolutely nothing for me. The FTR is the only one I’m interested in at all but even that’s not something I would actually purchase.
I’d rather have a Harley. 😂
Yes please. I like Indian looks and I like Harley’s but I ride Hondas lol don’t have Harley money. Its not just buying but cost of ownership.
@@robbyclark6915 There are a lot of us on Indians that are actually Harley-Davidson owners and riders...🤷♂
Buell/Triumph owner checking in- Never rode an Indian but I dig the looks of the FTR but on that note the only HD that excites me is the mythical Bronx. What are your thoughts about the new Buells? It would be cool if you went to Buells open house event Aug 26th and documented it.
I just felt like Indian had a better value for the money. I went with the Indian Scout Rogue and love it. The name of a brand isnt enough for me.
I love my 2022 Rogue!
Exactly. Some of their bikes do offer more for the money. And if you want a modern liquid-cooled V-twin, it ain't HD. However, Polaris is very close to pricing their bikes and parts similar to HD. That I am concerned about.
I just got a 2023 about a month and a half ago. After a set of pipes, I love it
@@treyward2839 I've decided to wait until I do the big bore kit before upgrading the exhaust, then get a full system and tune.
Indians look nice, I like the modernised vintage look.
Blaming Indian for Harley's lack of innovation is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard.
For real lol.
For real though, and let’s not forget the dreaded dark age of AMF Harley Davidson when it comes to brands falling off.
You could compare Harley to nVidia right now.
Also, Harley has made some half hearted attempts to innovate a few times over the years, but alway lacked the fortitude to see it through, always giving up too soon.
Not really, without any legitimate competition, HD hasn’t had much reason to innovate, not on the ways you’re thinking. They have done a lot on the bikes, though. Ever adjusted the clutch cable on a new M8 Harley? So easy.
Not a cruiser rider, but I have to admit; if I were to get a cruiser of any kind, my first choice would definitely be the Indian Scout. That is one sharp looking bike.
Me too
I feel for $10k the Scout bobber is the best deal in American cruisers
It’s way too tiny. I test rode one and it’s so low to the ground it was uncomfortable
@@BossMan302 hmmm how tall are you?
@@BossMan302I’m 6 foot and the bike is the perfect size.
Indian actually cares about their customers, and will go the extra mile to try and make a situation right.
I gotta give them credit for that!
but they won't give credit to spite ☜(ﾟヮﾟ☜)
Having been on Indian forums since 14, everything that the customer on the forum has advised, Indian adopted in their next year models. From tires, to Gillies Tool foot control's..
I'd have to strongly disagree and have made much better experiences with my local Harley Dealership than with the Bike Shop that is contracted by Indian. But that is of course my own opinion and could differ immensely between shops. Which is one of the reasons i base my bike purchased not only on what's the best bike, but i'll always check out the local dealership and inform myself on how good they operate, how well they treat their customers and how easy they are to work with. I'm in germany, mind you, where harley always had a bit of a hard standing, and the local harley dealer i mentioned is working hard to turn their image into something better, very welcoming and their labour hours are cheaper than the BMW, KTM and Honda dealer in the same town. On the other hand, Indian Motorcycles are distributed through a dealer that runs Aprilia, MV Augusta, Ducati and - for some wierd reason - indian, they make their sales and hit their margins without any problem, so they don't really care, you'll experience 8 weeks of waiting for an appointment, they tell you they have all the parts and you can wait for your bike, just to tell you to call a cab after waiting for 4 hours because they need to order stuff and your bike will need to stay in for a few weeks, they go on test rides for 200+ miles and charge much more than HD.
So i guess the moral of the story is check your local dealer first, brand second? :D
Nah, their dealerships could care less I’ve had nothing but bad experiences while there in Austin
@@mortalterrorRE Obviously it’s all dealer dependent. I have a friend who works at an Indian dealer in service, and he’s always telling stories of how Indian goes the extra mile to make sure a customer is happy. If the case is presented to Indian they will try hard to make the outcome 100%, sadly some dealers are lazy and won’t reach out to Indian on behalf of the customer.
I'm glad you made this video Spite! I mean I couldn't disagree more. You're dead wrong on Indian imo, but everything you said sounded like you were genuine in how you felt.
LMAO
He was dead ass spot on with Indian. Not a damn thing he said was wrong and I agreed with everything he said about them.
You are correct. I feel a certain way about things, then find out the truth doesn't give a shit and I was wrong. Spite does "feel" a way about Indian vs. HD. And he's half-assed on his facts.
Metalcore: I'm just pre-empting any reply. The info, the truth, is so easy to find and easy to read. I've taken the time to read finance articles, riding magazine articles, and other business reports on the two companies. You should try it sometime.
@@ZildjianMan30 All I got from his video is that he's salty they denied him credit, and then he spent 15mins of whining trying to justify his shitty opinion of Indian based on irrelevant stuff (ancient history of the company and how the cylinder heads look LOL), while ignoring the actual, real, tangible qualities of the bikes.
I'm also biased against HD for killing Buell (and even afterwards forbidding Eric from making sportbikes even though HD has zero interest in that segment), and then killing Alta.
Basically we could've had amazing american sportbikes and amazing american electric bikes for so long (Alta was years ahead of anyone else in that segment), if not for HD.
And ragging on the Indian dealer, well, do I have some stories about HD dealers! Especially when they see me coming on a sportbike. From my own personal experience, HD is the Moss Eisley of motorcycle dealerships.
@@raoulrralso he really leaned in on the classic styled bikes, which as of now there are only 2 in the line up. The rest of the line up is modern and blacked out now, which is what the people want these days.
Indian killed off most of the classic styled bikes with chrome, fringe, and leather bags. The scout is an amazing bike, too low? Well it’s a cruiser not a canyon carver, handles amazing for what it is, and the performance is there, will give Harley baggers a run for their money and put them to shame.
Love my Indian Scout Bobber!
I love mines too !
Agreed and mine is blacked out. I hate that chrome
@@King-ww1kz same!
I've been considering getting a bobber for a 2nd bike.
@@King-ww1kz i have the 22 blue bobber
Yes, Polaris bought the Indian name, but ill be damned if they havent been doing a fantastic job pumping out fantastic bikes.
In reality, if they sticked with Victory, no matter how awesome bikes they made, nobody would be riding them.
Polaris has been delivering consistently since they began reviving Indian, they have honored the brand
The victory technology continues on into the Indians
@@soganoflariderexactly Indian is just a rebranding of Victory with a new coat of paint.
The walk away after I park is the litmus test for any vehicle I buy. If you can walk away without looking back then you bought the wrong ride, 2 wheels and 4.
I feel this. The other test is how long does it spend in the garage between rides. Traded my Harley when I started realizing I never felt inspired to just go for a ride anymore. A new bike changed that and I take way more weekend trips than I ever did before. I'm sure one day it'll happen again. Luckily bikes are relatively cheap
I think that Indian, from an objective point of view, are just technically better Harleys, but from a subjective point of view, if you don't like it, you don't like it. Personally I think a couple of them look better than the Harley equivalent, and some look worse, but overall they are close calls.
Hate the tiny little micro headlight, coupled with the micro tiny little ground clearance.
I own a Indian Challenger and a chief but I hate them both compared to my Harley. They have so many stupid little problems that I can never get on my Indians without being annoyed. Plastics are super cheap, dealerships have terrible service, aftermarket support just isn't as developed.
Chief line > softails, Indian touring models < Harley touring models
This is my opinion and I stand by it
@camerongreen7242 From factory, I'd agree
Indians aren’t better than Harleys.
Tested an FTR among a bunch of bikes and it gave me huge smiles. That is what counts
That is just silly. Because of a bank, your credit score, and that dealer, you say you do not like Indian motorcycles. Have you even ridden any of their bikes lately?
I had an experience like that at a car dealership when I was in the military. 700+ credit, lived in barracks so no bills whatsoever and $1500+/mo disposable income. They looked at me like I was a worm for wanting a $20k car, back in 2002. I make well into 6 figures now with a house, 4 cars (2 corvettes) and 3 bikes. I've never set foot in an Acura dealership since that day, nor will I ever. The way you treat customers is the way they see your brand.
I could be wrong ( disclaimer: it wouldnt be the first time) but I'm unaware of Indian Motorcycle having their own inhouse financing. To be clear, if you wish to purchase an Indian Motorcycle today, and you dont arrange your own financing, Indian will provide financing options through companies such as Sheffield Financial, Synchrony Financial, Performance Financial and Octane. I understand the frustration of having your loan request denied, but let's be honest for a moment, Indian didn't deny you, the loan company which was used for this promotion denied you. I'm sure Indian would have loved to have sold a bike, but they couldn't help but to follow the guidelines set by the financial company. Dont take it personally.
Ps: I wanted to get the oil changed in my wife's car today at my local dealership, but was declined as the service department was closed for July 4th. I suppose I need to ban this dealership in the future 😂 (joking)
You're right. Indian still doesn't self-finance. Spite needs to get over his grudgy feelings.
Nah that was the shop's way of saying you need to be a real American and change your own dang oil. Jk😂
@@pocketlint82 either cars are getting lower or I'm getting fatter. I would need a lift .
No. You should take it personally. If you can’t get a motorcycle loan it’s 100% your fault for having shit credit, not the bank, not Indian or anyone else.
Also, he didn’t clarify if he didn’t qualify, or if he just didn’t qualify for the 0% offer.
So what about something like the Dark Chief? Looks just as good in my mind as a Low Rider ST
Blasphemer!
Looks better, more tech for the chang $
@@TheNostorian You know what Harleys and toilets have in common?
Same seating position atop a pile of crap.
My Grandfather purchased a new Indian chief after WW2 it was army surplas in a packing crate and he had to assemble it himself. We are in England, so I guess not everything got shipped back over to USA after the war. He sold the bike eventually to buy a car, I am sure it is quite valuable now if it still exists.
Spite, you have forgotten to mention the only reason why HD are still in business today and possibly due to it happening before you were born. The Reagan tax which was super high in the 80’s on all Japanese imports to keep HD open. Without that tax he introduced HD would’ve been bankrupt and who knows what would be today if he didn’t.
Yes, indeed. Just to clarify a bit, the import tax was thanks to Congress. Yes, Reagan still shares some blame, but none of it would've happened if not for HD lobbying Congress.
@@ZildjianMan30 Correct. A political win for Reagan. I assumed peps new that everything has to pass Congress.
HD doesn’t want to compete is just relies on people buying its brand.
Harley was saved by introducing the Evo motor and better quality control. The Japanese big 4 were found guilty of illegally dumping bikes under cost during the early 80's recession. The tariff helped keep the creditors from calling in the loan when they did the AMF buyout. Lemmy from Revzilla did a fair look at the tariff if you want more info.
@@sportyonetaubert5923 I’m old enough to remember the 80’s well. The big 4 were not bringing bikes in under cost as the prices were consistent with Europe, the UK and Australia just to name a few. They sold well and it was purely based upon the tax introduced well before the eco, and still questionable QC. It’s just simple history combined with politics.
I have two Indians and love them. There are lots of brands/OEMs out there, you can't get to all of them! Plus the ROI is higher for content creators on HD content because of the install base. I am seeing more and more Indians on the road in my area though (SC) so that may change in the years ahead. Great channel spite love your content!
lol, this seemed like a really long drawn out way of saying "Because I don't like them"
I prefer more bike over overpriced, underperforming HDs…
You don't hate Indian, you are just a Harley fanboy. There is nothing wrong with that btw. At least you know what you like
Great modern engines. Great looks. Sounds incredible with the right pipes. Amazing sounding on the top end. Will pull forever, and is so basic it's borderline terrifying and I love it for that! Only motorcycle that's tried to kill me twice and I'm still saying that. Keep the pressure up Indian. We all benefit!
Fun Fact. There are more used Harleys at Indian Dealers than there are used Indians at Harley Dealers....
Cause Harley pumps out that garbage, I bet there’s more Harleys at a Kawasaki and Honda dealers than ..... you get the point.
Might be true but totally meaningless. The current Indian brand has only existed since 2013 when Polaris revived the name. The reason there are few used Indians for sale is because relatively few have been produced.
@@andrewgee241 Sure. Keep believing that if it makes you feel better….
@@andrewgee241Agreed ,, Indian doesn't come close to HD sales,,thus U don't see them sold in numbers like HD ,which is a Testament to Harley Davidson.,
@@andrewgee241Try looking at actual sales figures in finance articles. Does IMC sell as many total units as HD? No. But "relatively few" is incorrect.
As a retired teacher, I love history. But, when I’m buying a product, I’m interested in what it is NOW, not what it was 100+ years ago. I mean, that history is fun and enjoyable - just not relevant to what I use to judge a possible purchase.
Motorcycles are, by and large, a luxury purchase in the US. True for me. I didn’t need one. I wanted one. I do tend to go contrarian, buying products that most don’t - but it needs to be quality product. That’s most important.
After shopping around for a few weeks back in November 2019, I chose a Scout. Added some accessories to get the look and features I wanted, and I’ve been a very happy rider ever since. And I get a lot of compliments on my ride. And I always smile when I’m walking up to and away from my bike.
Your mileage may vary. 😊
Well said “teach”, mahalo 🤙🏼
The Springfield is my favorite Indian. I love the old school aesthetics.
I grew up on Japanese bikes. They always were more sophisticated. Seemed like modern ideas and designs. At this point, I’m still satisfied with my old Hondas CB1000 Big One, my 919 and my Suzuki 1250 Bandit. If I ever decided to go newer, it would likely be a Triumphs or an Indian. I just can’t do Harley Davidson. I don’t feel like they’re better bikes than anybody else. As Patrick Swayze said in roadhouse, opinions vary.
I do want to throw in , I would recommend Japanese bikes - but not one specific one - the rebel 1100 remains the only motorcycle I’ve ever sat on that was uncomfortable within 30 seconds.
Brah... preach... :)
I’m exactly the same. Old Hondas but would get an Indian. HD is too ubiquitous and they rip their customers off imo. Even with parts and maintenance
I listened carefully to Spike. I don't have a dog in this fight. But what I heard was obviously thinly vailed in his preference. So I'm thinking the point is "I like this not that." Thanks for sharing.
Agreed. He contradicted his own justifications. Every single one of them. He said it himself at the end, he prefers the Harley's because they give him "the fizz" and Indians don't. Fair enough, should have said that in the beginning. lol.
@@nicktd That still makes no sense as to why he wont at least try to get on media events and try their bikes. Its almost as if he would rather miss the content then have the possibility of a changed opinion. It just seems odd.
@@bmagadaThat's the thing - he does go to media events and he has done videos for Indians on his channel and when he was with Yammie Noob. He always likes them. I really don't get why he is dissing on them, here. And blaming Indian for Harley's lack of innovation is just about the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
@@bmagada I agree completely but there's not much worse than working with something you hate. Making content on TH-cam is hard enough as is , much worse when sucking the life out of creating a video on a product you don't and likely won't ever like.
@bmagada completely agree. I think most of us are here for bike content. All bikes. I still think the scout is absolutely gorgeous.
Great vlog as always😎 However, a bit off on Harley guys and Indian riders, at least from this Harley rider's perspective who Started on Harleys over 20 years ago and still ride my three Harleys, including my original. I am a Harley-Davidson rider and HOG member that has seen the light, and not only on the spec sheet. My two Indian Motorcycles are Indian motorcycles with all the heritage from their glory days of the first half of the 20th century and all the greatness of 21st century advancements. I used to be that Harley guy that hated on Indian motorcycle for a good number of years when they first came out; however, after having experienced the buying process and owning two Indians for going on three years, I am a born again believer... cheers👊😎
Spite you need to do more research on indians pre 1950s history. The motorcycle indian made for the army was to the us armys exact specs and was customed built to their specs. They made a smaller cc engine than what they normally ran in their street bikes because that's what the army asked for. If i remember correctly the requirement was around 500cc. Harley submitted a motorcycle that didn't meet the requirements with a 750cc engine. Harley should of lost the competition but the generals liked that the Harley was faster. So they gave both Harley and Indian contracts. The problem is the GIs didn't know the details of the trials and Indian got the reputation of being under powered bikes. After ww2 the GIs bought the surplus Harleys that were the faster bikes and Indian wasn't able to shake their bad reputation. You also had Harley getting the ama to make rules in racing that benefited Harley over other brands. Harley even had the federal government pass laws to benefit them when the Japanese bikes got to be competition for Harley. Harleys stagnation was because they didn't want to innovate and to be competitive. Harley is responsible for their current situation because of the underhanded tactics they used instead of just competing.
Buy a Harley and be Unique and Different. Just like all the other Harley riders.....
You lost me at "I don't want to ride around on something that looks like it's from the 30s." I love the retro look that alot of companies are doing
Like 90% of your complaints can be said of Harley as well. I mean, except Indian actually released their sport bike... but what I'm getting is you have a preference based on a bunch of data points as justification that when compared to Harley, aren't that different. The reality seems to be that you just like Harley more as a brand and that could be because Harley would give you a bike on terrible credit or solid preference, but that doesn't explain why you completely ignore them. It just feels like if I gave you two very similar bikes and they rode almost the same but I put a bar and shield on the one with less power and tech, you'd swear it was a better bike. Maybe a better brand, but that's not the bike.
Not on either side of this argument, I ride a Honda ffs, but it just seems limiting to ignore half the US cruiser market. I mean, even Harley riders have been praising the new Sport Chief. It's your preference, though, and whatever makes you happy is all you need. I just think maybe you should broaden your grip on what an American V-twin should be. Side note: They dont always have to sound like a potato.
Also completely in love with my Scout Bobber. It’s a ton of fun and is an ideal companion to my XSR900. Harleys are super cool and definitely have their place in the market too. Love to ALL motorcycles.
I have had 3 bikes since 2012. A Honda Shadow 750,2015 Triumph Thunderbird and now my IndianScout Bobber. But far the Indian is my favorite by far
The triumph thunderbird 1700LT and storm are beautiful machines and have great motors styling and torque. I saw the 2023 model online and the build quality, paint job and chrome is beautiful and has a tank mounted speedo with wire wheels and comfortable seat, a screen and really nice mudguards. Far nicer than the BMW R18 which i dont like. Indian would do well to have a steel framed bare bones simple watercooled v twin but with a detuned motor with a strong crank with extra main bearings, strong camshafts, followers and pushrods or maybe with a very good strong camchain and tensioner system like on the suzuki TL1000 with a great clutch and transmission. No dodgy plastic gears like on one of the indian motors i saw stripped down on a rebuild by the cool black mechanic on you tube. His channel is brilliant and he certainly talks sense.
Rebel 750? am i missing something?
@@haydenlawler5762 2012 Honda Shadow 750 my bad
I love my HD but I honestly believe Indian is the better bike for the money. It is a more refined bike. If one can just get over the HD brand, Indian would be the better choice.
Half way through this video I started to wonder if Indian built the Versys 650...
Indian died in 1953. Harley came out with the Sportster in 1957. None of this happened by chance. Post WWII, with the UK in shambles from the war, and most of Europe broke from the war, UK started bringing in Triumph, Norton, Royal Enfield, into the US. Motorcycle journalist at the time called it the British Invasion. Small displacement, high horsepower, cheap bikes hit the US market like a sledgehammer. Harley responded by replacing the long in the tooth K series with the overhead valve 883cc Sporty, and Indian died...
I agree the Springfield doesn’t look that great but the dark horse version of the Springfield is hella dope. I would so own one if I could 🤘
I looked long and hard at a Road Glide Limited and an Indian Pursuit Premium. I test rode both, and at the end of the day, the Indian rode much better and checked more of the boxes stock compared to the Harley. To each their own. Just enjoy what you ride.
happy 4th of july everyone!
except indian owners hahahahahhaa
Who, when, where, why a motorcycle was or wasn't originally made doesn't matter! I don't understand why anyone brings that up about either company. All that matters is quality, reliability, and performance. That's it. And they both make good bikes. And the only thing that doesn't look great on the Indian Springfield is that front fender. Otherwise, it's a great looking bike.
The only Harley I was interested in was the Low Rider ST... For less money I could go next door and get the Indian Sport Chief which is WAY more modern and tech focused. I honestly think Harley is stuck in the past and Indian is moving forward with newer generation riders and great looking modern bikes...
They cost the same and you get WAY better quality and fit and finish with the Harley. You guys always talk about “more technology” but you never ask yourself do you NEED more tech. And just because it has more, that doesn’t mean it has better tech, big difference.
?? There is like a 300 dollar difference and there’s almost no tech difference other than ride modes which is dumb. I want all or nothing
@@m3talc0re Why do 20-thousand-dollar Harleys not even have cruise control? Some don't even have LED lights! WTF?
@@BossMan302 Tbh, really, the only tech that matters is ABS, which should be standard on all bikes now. I don't give a shit about ride modes. It's extra fluff nobody will really ever use.
@@JasonRidesmoto I don't care about cruise control, I actively avoid roads where you could actually use it. The lack of LED's though, that's legit and it's bullshit that HD don't come with full LED and no incandescent bulbs.
I love this channel, but this video is almost painful to watch. It's fine to be a Harley guy and not like Indian because of that, but to spew this absolute nonsense is insane. I mean to try to hold the "Springfield" out as the exemplar for the brand when its a niche model is like saying don't buy a Harley because they only make trikes.
IMO harley is their own worst enemy, they rely to much on their brand name and don't seem to understand potential customers. The few things I think they get wrong is pricing considering most of their bikes run hot and lean until the rider gets them properly tuned and modified to keep from burning the oil up.
God forbid they should set a standard. Look at how many repoed Harleys there are, compared to repoed Indians.....Indian also didn't cheat on the military tests, like Harley did.
I was looking at the harley fat bob or the low rides as my first bike. I have always been a harley fan since before i could walk. But the i saw indian announcing their 2022 remodel of the chief and i fell in love. The indian chief dark horse is truly a dreambike and ive hade so many good memories on it.
I was looking to buy a new Scout or an old, cheap Harley. Then, the 2022 Chief was released. I'm with you, and I love the Chief.
@@ZildjianMan30 Yep, i rode the new Rogue last year and was the first to ride that bike. It fit me like a glove.
I rode the Chief DH and loved the torque, but preferred the Rogue.
Then they came out with the Sport Chief and now i want that too.
I went to a Harley dealer to buy a buell. After being ignored in showroom next to a buell for an hour. I wanted to order one. They refused saying they couldn't sell the ones they had.(different model and color). And talking shit about a bike they sell. I left and bought a BMW . I always thought (still think) that actual Harleys are overpriced and for old men . I thought buell was gonna change that. It did a little bit . But now these cruiser manufacturers are starting to see the big picture . With more modern non cruiser options
yeah, how many miles did you put on the BMW and how much was the maintenance? I ride a R1250RPT for work (motor) and I wanted a BMW for off-duty use, but after seeing how often shit breaks and how expensive they are to fix, I opted for a Harley.
@@Silidons91- so really nothing changed 😳
I believe you don't have to hate one brand just because you love another, you can just love the one you love more than the rest. I now own 2 Indians, the Sport Chief for 4 months, & the 2022 FTR for 2 years. They both accomplish what I want them to perfectly, so to me, they are both perfect. I had my heart set on the HD 48 for almost 10 years, I thought for sure it would be the bike for me, but just like your anecdote on the bad experience trying to buy the Scout, I had some pompous arrogant HD sales people that thought me getting the 48 as a starter was going to get me killed. I was 40 years old, I used to ride bulls & also rode plenty of dirt bikes growing up & wasn't going to ride it off the lot & hop right on a freeway or zoom up a canyon without any training or practice. So I went to the Indian dealer instead & was sold a cheaper, lighter, torquier, horsepowerier FTR and surprise, didn't die. Is this the HD 48's fault, NO, it's a great bike that I still get excited to see on the road. What it teaches us is that people can have a larger influence on us sometimes than the products they are selling. Having ridden dozens of different bikes of the past few years now has also taught me that there are almost no BAD bikes, it's roughly 75% personal preference what bike you'll enjoy being on top of.
Yep and some prefer being atop a pile of crap (HD).
@spite this all sounded very genuine from you which is awesome. However, I am one of those folks you say doesn't exist. I picked an Indian over a harley. I picked an Indian scout bobber over several different harley soft tails I tried. The scout rode better, was more nimble and sporty and it was priced way better. This is not to say that I wouldn't get a harley but the scout was just the better choice this time.
Good vlog Spite, we're on total ends on this one especially because as a 35 year old, I bought a brand new Indian Springfield in '22 and I absolutely love it. I respect your position and how you feel about Indian, you can't have everybody on your side.
Amazing that you’re forgetting about Harley selling out to AMF and Harley buying them back in 1981.
I actually like the Scout, the Springfield AND the Chiefs! They've got the look, the engines are good, they handle well and everything, but I can't see myself buying one over a Harley for the same price. Well, maybe a Scout, but still.
The greatest American bagger ever was, and still is, the Victory Vision. It handled like a dream, the engine was great looking and modern and Lloyd's made it much better, it had the electronics of a Gold Wing... And I still hold a grudge against it because it was a total compromise from the Vision Concept, which was an American sport tourer with floorboards that would have handed the K1600 and the GSX-S their asses!
Polaris has always, ALWAYS sacrificed pure performance and a chance to compete globally in the motorcycle business to try and grab a percentage of Harley-Davidson customers with a shallow and chintzy notion of "heritage" and juuuuuuuuust enough performance and technology to say their bike is "better and faster" than the competing Harley, without ever getting right the things that make people want Harleys over "better and faster" bikes in the first place. They've gotten worse at it with "Indian", actually, the idea that they bought some heritage means they don't try as hard.
The companies that make bikes that compete with Harley Davidson define their aesthetics and heritage on their OWN terms, companies like Yamaha and Moto Guzzi and BMW and Honda who make the bikes Harley won't. The FTR and the Challenger are starts, but the Pan-America and the Nightster are fair responses...
Brembo brakes, fox shocks, forged aluminum frames. Street nakeds, small cruisers, race bikes, fast baggers... they have an awesome spread and let the race wins do the talking. Really fun company and they are doing great as of late. The Sport Chief is for the ex-Dyna fans that need some newer better tech.
Every new upgrade HD has made the last 10 years was in direct response to keeping up with Indian. Our local dealership packed full of traded in HDs and can barely keep the Indians on the floor. This is Sturgis by the way! Home of the biggest bike rally, started by Indian.
Harley=Iphone. People will buy it regardless of price. Indian=Samsung Phones, Great alternative to people who are not sheep. That's right I called HD owners sheep. That being said, for my first bike I went Indian Scout ABS, for my next one, I'll be open to baggers from both companies.
Glad every single talking point is an opinion cause I feel 100% opposite than what you have said. lol Different strokes for different folks for sure. My Scout Rogue has turned 3 hardcore harley riders into Indian riders now.
Love my 22 Rogue!
@@dieselbaldwin hell yeah! Got a 22 as well actually! Haha
I will admit the Indian Challenger is a bike I am looking at now. The issue is the dealer network for me and my experience at a local dealer. Now I should not judge the other dealers on one dealer, but through my discussions with others, it seems to be fairly consistent. I went (pre-COVID years) to look at buying a new bike, a touring cruiser. The sales person did not even know much about the bikes, their features and had to look up or ask about them, even asking me (!). Two of the bikes could not be started due to their batteries being dead. Asked to see the part/services areas and it was a bit of a mess. The dealer also sold ATV/Side by Sides and that seemed to be their focus. This made me think a lot about Indian at the time and said I should look at other bikes. Completely different experience at the HD and BMW dealers that were close by. Hopefully this has changed as the Challenger is on the short list as is BMW R1250, HD Road Glide, and a Honda Goldwing
I've had the same experience with Harley-Davidson dealerships and me knowing more about their bikes than the folks on the sales floor---as well as poor experiences with service departments at three dealerships in two different State...🤷♂
Spite, there's no question that you're a Harley simp. That being said, I'm a Triumph simp, and we like what we like.
You did at least acknowledge that Indian has better tech, pricing and specs, so there's that.
I love the new Indians, especially the challenger because of the liquid cooled engine . What makes me pause is how they dumped victory and left their customers somewhat high and dry. I wish they would really really make an effort to let the customers know we’re in this for the long haul.
Victory shut down 6 years ago so I think Indian is in it for the long haul.
Harley has forced their dealers to shove product out the door, they will "find a way" to finance anyone. Take a look at Harley's financial reports and the "out performing" repossessions of Harley motorcycle loans versus the rest of the industry. I am biased, I own a 2022 Indian Scout Bobber. But I actually own it, as in free & clear. No vehicle dealership, including Harley or Indian, is looking out for your best interest. Get your financing (if needed) pre-approved before you walk in the door.
Indians are just Victory just with a new name and paint of coat.
@@mitchjames9350 Indian wouldn't exist without Polaris Industries... much like Harley wouldn't exist without AMF. But call it whatever you want. Competition is good for the consumer and the market is evolving.
@@mitchjames9350 Yawn, you're a bore.
“They lean really hard into the chrome”
Dude, have you ever seen a Harley? 😆
Unless you spend 30k all Harley does is chrome
I disagree with you spite. I think the classic looking Indians are better looking that Harleys classic style bikes. For that matter I think all the new Harleys are fugly. But what do I know? I ride a vstar 1100 cause it's cheap.
See, I think Indian does the old school look better than Harley. Indian truly makes old looking bikes. Indian is like the Mustang and Challenger, throwbacks done right. Harley is the Camaro, it doesn't look anything like an old bike.
Brand competition is good for the consumer. Indian is just the end result of years of work. It started with the Victory. If Victory had not come along Harley would probably still be running an 88 ci engine with brakes that always felt lacking to me.
TLDR: He thinks they look old and they rejected him for a loan.
I know plenty of people who cross shop Harley and Indian. The most frequent answer I get is they go with Indian because the suspension and ride is just better factory. I do think you have an obvious bias and you should actually try multiple Indians before downing them. Just saying. I like the new Indians. They are slowly getting rid of the antique looking ones anyway. Plus, LIQUID COOLED engines. Lol. It gets hot here in SC. 😂 A lot of us are also put off by the old school mentality about the Harley culture. If it isn't a Harley then it's not a real bike. And my husband and I have a joke here, "Oh look, it's another black Harley." Everyone's bikes look the same. Granted I'm a Triumph rider myself. But hubby wants an Indian for next bike. Now if Indian shocked everyone by making THAT naked sport bike that Harley refuses to bring out, that would be amazing.
Any motorcycle which carves out its own niche, without any apparent competitors, I say hats off to you Mr. Manufacturer.....Keep doing that; we don't need any more cookie-cutter clone bikes. The FTR is one of those. Yes, its a bit porky and underpowered, but a great effort in bringing out something different. I hope it evolves into a truly great motorcycle. With time and support, it certainly has the potential.
I would honestly blame Harleys own fan base for the lack of innovation. It seems like every time Harley tries something new, the Harley guys say “That’s not a Harley” loud enough for them to kill it *cough cough* V-Rod *cough cough* Harley guys would do that whether Indian had been constant since 1901 or if they never came back at all.
As you can see from my profile pic, I am an Indian rider. I bought a 2022 Springfield Dark Horse (not the grandaddy version you posted) last year after my Suzuki Boulevard M90 was totaled in an accident. I gave HD a few chances to get my business, but the dealership said my credit was poor (offering me 22% APR) and when riding the Harley equivalent (Road King Special) it just didn't ride as well and had less features for the same price. I got a 7% APR loan through one of their finance companies, so that sealed the deal for me. I am just one story, but judging by the comments I've read so far, your opinion seems to differ greatly from your viewers and subscribers.
YES, review some Indians! We all know you to be an objective guy, so I think the more Indians you ride, the sooner you will see what we are all talking about.
Come to think of it, Royal Enfield is also an Indian motorcycle…
Lol, the literal India Indians!
Do you know the history on why Native Americans were tagged as Indians?
Because the first contact European didn’t know the American continent sat between Europe and India Lol!
LOL. high fives.
Fair points, but there should be a distinction made between "old" and "new" Indians when talking about style since Polaris has been doing an admirable job of piecemeal upgrades to the line.
Take the Springfield mentioned: the regular "old" style is boomer as hell. The Springfield Dark Horse is sex on wheels. In fact, I would disagree with the characterization of Indian as a brand to push old-school bikes. The example Springfield is one of the last in the line to have a style from the 70's and 80's. But again, that's only true if you compare Indian today. Even a few years ago, the style criticism is perfectly warranted.
Some like apples, some like oranges……some like both, I have an apple, wouldn’t mind an orange in the garage.
Thinking of american sport bike. Always though a hopped up FTR with a fill fairing would be awesome. Basically a Buell.
Ya like what you like. I dig both Harley and Indian - definitely leaving towards an Indian more after sitting on a Dark Horse Pursuit in the showroom and hearing the engine/playing with the electronics. Deal maker - my wife likes it most :) Really enjoyed a 2014 street glide for a week a couple years ago but for 2 up riding, would have to go Electra Glide if we decide Harley in the future.
Sounds more like a commentary on Indian styling versus its viability as a machine and company. Which is fair, but I wouldn't call that "hating" Indian motorcycles; just a difference in styling preferences, which is common to everybody. Hard disagree on no one looking at a Harley would cross-shop an Indian. Unless Indian is bringing nothing but all new riders to their showrooms, their sales are coming at the expense of Harley, and it shows in Harley's decreasing market share of the >600cc market segment. FWIW, I own neither, but lean HD, just for their dealer network and after market parts options.
Indian Sport Chief. I'm sorry but the issues with M8's and Twin Cams no other manufacturer could get away with especially at their price and Harley never fully addressed all the issues. The made some improvements but still a mountain of problems.
I ride a Victory Kingpin which is a fantastic motorcycle and it's almost twenty years old. People like what they like but you have to admit, Harley would not be offering what they have to today if Indian had not pushed the envelope. It creates brand rivalry, (e.g., ford vs. chevy) and the customer wins in the end. I like them both, and glad they are still here. And yes, you should review Indian's because I would watch that as would others.
I have a 2017 Street Glide and a 2022 Scout Bobber. I'm trading in the Steet Glide for a 23 Springfield Darkhorse.
Indian/Polaris absolutely won me over with their solid engineering.
As someone who loves Indian, I do not like the springfield's design. They completely dropped the ball on that modern-classic style with the springfield. I love the old school look when someone does it right, and Indian normally does it right. I do really hope Indian further hits down on performance soon. They have some great engines and if they flush things out a bit they could definitely be competitive.
Road Glide …Dodge Challenger on 2 wheels, I can’t unsee that all of the sudden.
I just bough and picked up a 2019 FTR and gaddayum what a machine it is, couldnt be happier
Was deciding between a Lowrider S and and the Sport Chief. The Lowrider just didn’t do it for me. But my first bike was the Nighster975 so there’s that. But at least Indian didnt go crying to Reagan about the Japanese being better! 😂
Most of what he said is true. I own a Scout Bobber (highly upgraded) and the whole history or branding, he's on point. Is HD a "better" motorcycle.....nope. Polaris has built a more modern engine....which HD is now trying to keep up. But HD is more about the look and brand, i totally get that. That's why i don't trash the riders or HD company....its American. But way too many grown men and women can't handle a little different opinion.
I personally prefer the style of the Indian Chiefs to the HD softails. But when it comes the the larger baggers I actually like the HD style better
I mean you don’t have to wear some fetish leather gear or 65 dollar t-shirts if you ride an Indian, but I don’t dig the long leather tassels either.
@@tomoates8568 if i was going to get an Indian today it would be the Chief.
I remember you wanted a chief at an open day, vlogging for the other channel
So are you willing to make the argument about Triumph? The current Triumph is new company born out the ashes and romantic history of one of the most iconic European motorcycle brand. It went bankrupt and shut down. Many years later, in 1983 John Bloor established the new Triumph motorcycle company.
17:42 So, I´m from Germany, and I wanted an American cruiser. I´ve chosen the Indian Scout Rogue because it is technically more advanced, while still being super simplistic in terms of features - maybe I should call them antifeatures, because I don´ t want a TFT, I don´t want riding modes. I had that stuff on my Aprilias and with the switch to a cruiser I wanted the simplicity, but as opposed to some old Harley, I also wanted modern technology in terms of hardware. Additionally the Scout Rogue just looks great and I´m super happy with it.
I was in the market for my first big American v-twin recently. I test rode a few Harleys and the Indian Challenger. I have no brand loyalty and I felt the Challenger was the better bike, especially for the money. Harleys won for me on aesthetics and sound, but the Challenger won on everything else. Having said that, I ended up with a 2022 Street Glide ST that I found for a good price private party.
My biggest issue with Indian is the dealer network. My nearest dealer is 3 hours away. I do all my own maintenance but the Challenger is known for having some electrical gremlins and it makes me a little nervous having my nearest dealer that far away.
I’d probably prefer an Indian over the Harley equivalent but I’d do the same as you. You can ride all over the country and probably find a HD dealer relatively close if you needed it
@@christians131you’ll need it 😢
It's funny because I think the new Springfield's are the sexiest modern bike I've ever seen.
This iteration of Indian Motorcycles can't help their past. They make great bikes. Harley does too. I've had both.
I was a long time HD bagger rider, having owned 3 ultra classics, and I absolutely did what you're saying no one does. I was tired of my bike not being able to get out of its own way without throwing thousands of dollars into it. Went to an Indian Challenger and haven't looked back for a second. Does HD have better paint? Yep. Do I care about that when laughing as the guy on a road glide next to me at a red light disappears in my mirrors bc he can't possibly keep up with my bone stock bike? Nope lol. Better tech, more power, better reliability = reasons I won't go back to HD unless they step up (ironically the new road glide CVO is a blatant ripoff of the challenger... minus the actual tech lol)
Lots of personal opinion, and not much in the way of unbiased comparisons. Much of your content is admirable, but this came off like a gossip column.
As intended.
No shit sherlock, he‘s literally saying that he’s biased af throughout the whole video
Take a look at the Indian Scout Rogue. I think you’d love the look of the midnight version.
I have a Scout. My 4th bike in my life time. I must say the Scout is just a perfect bike. I love it!
why do you sit in the overtaking lane when the right lane is clear?
Lol! Because they are in the posing lane!
Love my Indian Challenger. Best bang for your buck and the motor alone sold me on the test ride. Like the road glide but doesn’t even come close to the performance and handling of a challenger.
Love my Indian FTR s 😊 …traded my sporty 48 for it.
Test them all!
Ride what you like!
Who cares what anyone one else thinks or likes?
💪🏻
This is why I love sport bikes so much. They force each other to be better. Harley and Indian can regurgitate the same bullshit for decades and people buy it. That being said, I do want an indian scout for cruising with the wife 😂
I love the classic vibe from bikes so Indians right up my alley.
So to sum it up, Give spite a scout at 0% apr for 72 months so he can get that chip off his shoulder. This video wouldnt exist if he didn't get denied by a financial company, not Indian. He chose an Indian first. Lol
Very true,that’s what I said
Happy fourth. Ftr rider. Test rode and sat on quite a few bikes. Mainly got ftr because it fits. Vrod fits, desert sled fits, the Honda 650, the klr, BMW r9t all fit. was all set on a triumph tiger, but it really didn't fit. Nice to hear the history of the brands. MV agusta lucky explorer is one I'd like to take for a spin.
Walking into the Harley dealerships here in San Diego feels like walking into an overt marketing campaign for pretending to be punk rock- I own an Indian Chief bobber because I liked the quality, the bikes are just right on the money with looks and out of the box performance and price. It’s an honest better bike for the price. Harley is not resonating with a lot of folks. Also quite frankly their politics, the marketing to movie stars that spray paint them up.
Indian just has a different feel, their dealerships are different. I wanted an older school look with modern touch. FYI, I’m not a boomer and this is my 1st bike
You like what you like and that's okay. Absofuckinglutely love my FTR and the character it has
Nothing beats the dark horse imo..its just perfect looking.