The Asha'man are much more involved with the world than Aes Sedi. As a military organization they will be moving around the nation in large groups more than the Aes Sedi. Also as a military organization they will probably work closely with the Aiel who will have dealings with all the nations (and that might help promote their cause). Also at the end of A Memory of Light when the Asha'man are helping the survivors of the Last Battle and all the people are looking at them with awe and Respect and not the fear that is sometimes shown Aes Sedi. And the mothers are promising to send their sons to be tested in the Black Tower, nothing you see women promising to do for their daughters to Aes Sedi at any time in the series.
(spoilers below) I think they will continue to intermingle, as the Black Tower expands and comes into its own. It always frustrated me, while reading through the first few times, that Rand never took more of an interest in the Black Tower, never looked in on it to check on its progress or tried to teach any of the weaves he learned from Asmodean. It definitely makes sense though that he wanted it to stand on its own, and not to be associated too closely with the Dragon Reborn, given that he knew he would have to die(ish) at Tarmon Gaidon. I would have liked to see a final showdown between Taim and Logain, Light's False Dragon vs Shadow's False Dragon, although Egwene's sacrifice was a nice substitute, and a great way to end her story. For the Black Tower's sake though, Taim vs Logain would have been better, without the White Tower stepping in. One thing the Black Tower has going for it, is that the Seanchan don't have any male a'dam, and with them holding half the westlands, that's pretty important. They(the Seanchan) will have to address their treatment of channelers as it is, now that they are aware that sul'dam and damane are both channelers, neither better than the other or more pure/safe, only education standing between them. The Black Tower has nothing to fear from them but death, and they will likely join the White Tower in trying to end the captivity of fellow channelers. As a side note, do you remember what happened to Leilwin afterwards(being bonded to Egwene)? Did the warder bond drive her to some suicidal assault or was it even mentioned? I'd like to think her and Bayle got a whole fleet of ships and got chased by trollocs and Seanchan for the rest of their days. Also, would love to see a breakdown of Egwene and the White Tower.
Well that relationship between the Aes Sedai and Asha'man might see further cooperation in the future. I could almost see them combining into one new tower. Maybe the grey tower?
The Black Tower also has a corner market on male Channeling, the Aiel Wise ones and Seafolk Windfinders may be connected to the White Tower but are not part of it, if Aiel or Seafolk men wanted to learn to channel the Black Tower would be their only option.
My favourite part in the entire series is when logain saves the civilians, a mother says when her son is of age that she will send him to the black tower to be tested for the gift. And then logain realises that she referred to it as the gift and not the curse.
Yeah it's so cool how that mother's line interrupts his internal grumping monologue. He's all pissed he gave up searching for that sa'angreal to help these people who'll probably resent ... What did she just say!? 😄
@@twig8523 yup, such a simple little thing to add into the book, and yet i ws like "woah, here come the tears" :D i didn't actually cry tho, i'm a guy :p
@@xyr3s “Thank you," the young mother said again. "Thank you." "The Black Tower protects," Logain heard himself say. "Always." "I will send him to you to be tested when he is of age," the woman promised, holding her son. "I would have him join you, if he has the talent." The talent. Not the curse. The talent.”
Logain is your classic good guy in bad situations. Slightly insane but he was strong enough to resist the taint. Told he was evil, had to be stilled, told that his very essence was an affront to all living beings. Despite all of this he never fully broke and was able to pull back from the brink, recognize that mother's words, and change. True strength isn't being born good. True strength comes from facing the darkness and choosing to turn away.
Plus it was an Aes Sedai, Nynaeve who after numerous attempts, successfully reversed the 'gentleing'. Without her persistence, Logain would never have achieved his full potential.
Logain's struggle was always a personal one. As seen in his final scenes. It was his own temptation, his own ego, his own desire for revenge and power being fought by his own sense of right and wrong. And him making the active decisions to stand for what's right and not what was convenient and easy.
And they'll probably have to protect rulers, populations, from the influences of....the White Tower, which instead of protecting, always tried to control. Cadsuane still has some lessons to learn, herself.
One moment that really stood out to me was Narishma asserting to the little tower that Eben Hopwill was a hero. As for the future of the Black Tower, I think they have one particular advantage over the White Tower in that people have really started distrusting the Aes Sedai due to how manipulative they've gotten over the years. As evidenced by Nynaeve's story arc, the White Tower has become very detached from their original goal of helping people while the Black Tower seems to be very likely moving toward that goal of helping people moving forward. I could see the Black Tower becoming as much as or even more of a reputable organization going forward and possibly being respected to the degree channelers in Aiel or Sea Folk culture are
It is interesting that Androl with his weak One Power level, a man who if he was female would not be accepted at the White Tower - has such a good grasp of Gateways. Without his Talent he would not even be able to make one but he can make one on such a scale that even a man with the power of Rand's would have a hard time matching it. Which might tie back to the absurd notion of the Aes Sedai that strength in the power trumps all other factors and how that is slowly starting to change. As for the future of the tower, I think they will slowly merge with their female counterpart, though maybe as a sort of separate entity in the beginning? As they are at the same location but have their own grounds to work at. Actually I had a pet theory about the giant personal residence tower Elaida was building during her mad reign would turn out to be a good place for the Black Tower to take up residence and train future Asha'man. But I dunno, we will probably get no definitive answer to that as we will not get any books about the aftermath. So I might as well just think that the Black Tower WILL do that I guess? I can always make more stories in my head. ;-)
@@cthulhujankinx5652 Oh Lews Therin was Aes Sedai. In what was later called the Age of Legends both male and female worked together. I believe he was Amyrlin or the corresponding role at the time. I am not sure this is fact but my head canon is that, while the wheel spins until the ages repeat I do NOT believe that the age is the same either. There will always be someone opening a hole in the Dark Ones prison and there will always be a Dragon to patch things up and a Dragon Reborn to fix things "permanently. The BIG stuff. Lews Therin and Rand wore the soul this time around. Maybe last time or next time the body is female? Saidar is tained rather than saidin and there are MALE channelers (maybe Aes Sedai, maybe called something else) are gentling the few female channelers born with the spark and going mad and the... Dragonette? That doesn't sound right I know but I can't be bothered to find an alternative. Anyway, the Dragonette Reborn will once again cleanse saidar and defeat the Dark One, putting it back beyond time. Until the next age rolls around again. I dunno, but that is my take. Jordan might have had other views as the author, Sanderson might know I suppose. But unless I hear specifically from the source that it is not how the wheel weaves it can wheel as the wheel wills for me. ;-) Sorry about going off on a slight tangent. Yes, the books specifically says LT was Aes Sedai in his age. You hear it from the horse's mouth as it were. A MAD horse but still... :-P
@@signaltome I was more referring to Rands ancestry as an Aielman, it shows a memory while he is in the ter'angreal of him witnessing an explosion, and it was said at some time that the aes sedi where making it possible for men and woman to weild the same power, but it failed and of course the explosion was caused
i really like how pevara and androl bond each other. aes sedai and asha aman bonded to each other fighting to help each other and both can channel. it's like they both have warders but both their warders pack the punch of a 100 normal warders :D
You know what would be great, and I haven't been able to find anywhere else, a really careful blow by blow break down of the Battle of Merrilor along with a discussion of Mat's various military maneuvers and tricks during it.
I always took the reason why Rand never visited/helped the Blacktower was because he was afraid of a trap. I can't remember when (I think Towers of Midnight), but he said something along the lines of, 'the Blacktower will have to fend for themselves, I can not help them'. The tone made me feel like he wanted to help but couldn't, and that he regrets it. This to me indicates: 1- He knows bad things are happening there 2- He can't travel there because of the Dreamspike 3- He fears the Dreamspike is there to lure him into a trap which he can't escape It would be crazy for him to go to an area full of channellers that may not be on his side anymore. I also don't believe he neglected the Blacktower as much as it seems. As the books go on, the flow of time slows down (and distorts with different POV). He visited the tower more often in its infancy; when things needed to be done. But when he put Taim in charge, there was a lot less for him to achieve there. The tower is self sufficient. I can't recall the last time he visits it but not visiting it for 4 books at the end of the series is like 2 books midway (there's also every chance he goes there off screen). So it seems like he's neglecting it, when in fact the same amount of time might be passing. Eventually he tries to visit again and can't due to the Dreamspike.
Thats true, also have to remember rand was starting to think and try to plan for the future, he wanted the black tower to be self sufficent, not just his army. My only grip was his lack of communication, itd be pretty easy to tell logain/mihail why he wasnt around. But just kinda kept it at cold sholder, thus what transpires.
I think that may be part of it, especially during the time when he was a bit unstable and paranoid. But I think the main reasons was that he was under the assumption that he would die in the Last Battle against the Dark One as the prophecies have foretold. Therefore, he thought that if he lead the Ashaman directly and had them follow him, it would all fall apart when he died. He didn't want that. So he let them build themselves up, to grow by themselves, so that it would stay strong even if he was not there.
Logain was one of my favorite characters back in the day, so even though I haven't finished reading the series I'm happy for the spoilers. Gotta love an anti-hero.
I really want to see more of Logain and Taim in the Amazon series. Personally I would like to see a little more of Logains inner darkness and a little less obvious darkness for Taim.
I strongly suspect Logain and Mazrim Taim will both have expanded roles in the TV show. How could they not? I think we'll see more of the Forsaken also.
Siansonea Orande that’s assuming they decide to add content rather than cut content. There’s definitely going to be a temptation to eliminate and consolidate story lines.
My favorite moment was at the end of the final battle, and the mother comes to Logain. I had to read that part several times cuz it was a profound moment and satisfying.
Due to Cadsuane being raised to Amyrlin it's going to take time as she's old school Aes Sedai too prone to feel herself superior to others. I even question allowing The White Tower to regain power. My disgust with the White Tower grew with each new book. It's come to a simple 'what would be the point' of allowing this diminished archaic institution to continue? They call themselves the "servant of all" yet they served only themselves and what they wanted or needed. Their stature is fully called into question as more information is made available to The Wise Ones, the Kin and somewhat The Windfinders. I would rather have seen one of The Wise Ones take on the position of Amyrlin as I think the Wise Ones would be able to find more common ground with The Black Tower and expedite a merging of the male and female. The Age within the story is one of lack of balance and the New Age cannot flourish without gaining balance.
I also thought that Cadsuane was a very poor choice for the new Amyrlin Seat. She embodied what caused (almost) the downfall of the White Tower. Neurotic need to control everything, arrogance and valuing of power over true wisdom. The wise ones were justified for looking down on the Aes Sedai.
@@nyteblayde17 I think that's really going to be a sticking point. The Aes Sedai suffered a TON of casualties during the last battle. Egwene healed and reforged the tower, she left a MAJOR impact on every Aes Sedai in the tower and even cleansed it of the Black. She gave her life to protect the world and she also instated laws that Cadsuane couldn't AFFORD to overturn. Kicking out HUNDREDS of potential Aes Sedai, including very STRONG channelers, simply because they're too old, would effectively be suicide. And that's where the genius really comes in. Because of the Black Tower. They destroy the White Tower's monopoly. It's really this monopoly that caused the rot on the White Tower. There was nobody else before. Now they have to at least MATCH the Black Tower's numbers, so they can't just throw away hundreds of potential Aes Sedai. When they realize it WORKS and the tower is stuffed full of Aes Sedai, they're definitely not going to overturn it. The Black Tower likewise earned MAJOR respect during the Last Battle, and Andor especially owes them a LOT. Thanks Androl. Not to mention, just throwing it in there, Elayne's "husband" MADE it in the first place, so that's definitely not gonna hurt. The Dragon's Peace will also keep things stable and let them butt heads politically instead of physically, resulting in healthy competition instead of hatred. The Red's recent disgrace mixed with Pavara's unique situation will more or less force a bond between the two, also smoothing over relations and as this double bond circulates more and more relations will only get better. Cadsuane is not a petty woman, she is very logical and will be able to recognize 1-It'd be political suicide to screw with the Black Tower, without which there would be NO WORLD. 2-Men are 100% confirmed NOT inherently dangerous, therefore continuing to hunt them down is wrong, and with the Black Tower being officially recognized not just by Andor but the common people as well, they HAVE to deal with them as a political organization. Any headbutting as i mentioned will be no more extreme than what's normal. The competition will make both sides better servants of the people, and we've already seen many instances where Aes Sedai are VERY excited to work together with men who can channel. The Yellow i think will be very helpful in creating strong ties between the Towers. Cadsuane, of all the surviving Aes Sedai, was probably the BEST choice, short of in my opinion Moiraine. She was after all WAY better at handling Rand. Cadsuane is a strong person and will pick the best option available to her and get the White Tower back into top form.
Great topic! I never understood why rand completely ignored the issues in the black tower, I mean he basically was handing them over to be turned. It’s almost a plot hole to me, no person in rands position would have ignored arguably his best tools for the final battle. It never made sense to me, I know he was busy & had internal conflicts, but still they were to important to ignore as he did
I feel the same. Maybe it was that rand had faith that logain would be enough of a leader to lead the black tower and keep it safe. But it irked me abit that at the end, most of the ashaman were like "screw the dragon, he left us to burn" lol.
I don’t think rand had any faith in Logain, the way I interoperate this is that rand woke up one morning and thought “any man should be able to channel if I can,” but then he saw what they can do and got scared of them rebelling against him like the chosen did. So he ignored them and left them to rebel... makes no sense, but I guess hindsight is 20 20
Exactly! y ignore a great tool! he didn't trust "the leader" to begin with. after taint was cleansed he should have gone back or sent back someone in his stead.
Androl is the most underrated character in the WOT series, he never gets enough of a mention but is so critical to the last battle and what would be the future of what comes after.
You know Nynaeve's influence on the Black Tower is bigger than just purifying Saidin. She's also the one who discovered how to cure Gentling/Stilling. And the first one she cured was Logain.
Already made one comment but wanted to add this. I do think you missed one key aspect of the black tower. The reason why people chose to join. Characters joined various armies in WoT for many reasons, mainly food and money, but the ones that came to the black were different. They knew they could effect the outcome of a battle or a war more than any soldier. They joined to make the world a better place and it would most likely be a world they would not be a part of prior to the events of Winters Heart. They joined to make the world better at the cost of their lives.
With the Taint lifted and the Shadow defeated, the only threat would be from the Seanchan. It would be imperative for the Black and White towers to combine forces. A new Age of Legends would be born as both male and female channelers exceed the knowledge and abilities of those from before the Breaking.
Your argument is good, I never thought about it, I just never understood the distance between Rand and the black tower, why he isn't more implicated but your probably right, he wanted the black tower to live and evolve without him, to be independent in this new world. It's good...
There is one big factor you forgot about when talking of the 2 Towers eventually combining and that is Aviendha’s viewing about the future of her line and the Aiel. In that future the White Tower eventually falls to the Raven Empire after they are tricked into an alliance with the Aiel and the Black Tower is forced into hiding. You can argue whether Aviendha is successful in heading off that future but it is the only glimpse into the future we have.
I believe that for the two towers there would likely be some level of exchange and co-existence established. But do I think they'd ever truly merge? No. I think that both sides would further explore the possibilities that come with both sides of the power working together and the bonds that become possible, but I don't think the history between the two could so easily be forgotten that one would cede any real power over to the other. But I do think that there would possibly be new ranks established as well in both towers, for those who bond together.
What history between the two? The Black Tower is less than two years old. Within a few generations, most Asha'man will have never known a time when they had to fear the taint on saidin or being hunted down and gentled by Aes Sedai. There has been a shift in opinion among current Aes Sedai towards male channelers, with many having worked with Asha'man directly and having a positive experience, not to mention the Aes Sedai and Asha'man that have bonded each other. Not to mention as time goes forward, more and more Aes Sedai and Asha'man will born and will live never knowing a time when it wasn't the case that both female and male channelers could channel freely and frequently did so in cooperation. To them, having two seperate power structures would seem redundant, with training really being the only thing that need be seperated.
@@edwardsimpson119 Yes, the Black Tower is young, but the prejudice against male channelers is not. If you look at the real world and any two countries or cultures that have been in prolonged conflict, even if peace is established the prejudice is not quick to go away. It lasts for at least a couple of generations, assuming no new major conflicts.
Logain was one of my favorite Ashaman. Actually there were a lot of great Ashaman. If Mazraim wouldn’t have been a snake they would have been a force to be reckoned with at Tarmon gai’don. I mean they still were but imagine a united Black Tower standing with the Dragon.
@@Arctic_Stark I agree Rand was definitely slacking when it came to the Black Tower but man some of those guys could have really been quite powerful. Look how Alivia held the mouth of the cave by herself at the end. She was the most powerful female channeler of the third age but most men were even more powerful then she was just based on the way the power works in the books. The men were more powerful on average.
Honestly, these deep dives are incredible and I hope you keep them around as a bi-weeklyish sort of thing. Your analysis is always so thorough, and it's amazing to have a medium with which all of us WoT fans can nerd out about this stuff.
Good job Daniel, nice analysis as ever. Without the black tower in this age it's hard to see the dragon winning. Calculated gamble by Rand but critical as a force and as importantly in helping Rand deal with his inner demons
I think there’s a really interesting psychological gender difference that is going to sort itself out as the black tower rejects the title of mhael due to taims crime. The white tower has a leader that is selected in a very female way, social political action. The amarylin seat may direct aes sedai to tasks but she doesn’t order them. It’s a very communal system. Where agreements are made and there is limited room for personal objectives, in comparison to the towers objectives. The black tower has no leader. Logain is the strongest, so he can order ashaman to tasks. But he doesn’t direct the tower. Ashaman have great freedom to follow personal objectives, but they need to fight and win over others to turn them into the black towers objectives. I believe that “the black tower has no leader” is going to be a motto that helps it integrate into the world as it lessens the apparent threat of the black tower. And it’s this theme and “the black tower protects” that is going to cause the ashaman to be more open to everyday people. With supplicants being able to ask various specialist groups(maybe the blacks answer to Ajahs) for help. I also believe that “the black tower has no leader” is going to be the way that it joins the white tower, in thousands of years.
As far as the White tower and the Black tower I see a future where they have literally found their better half. For so long aes sedai have had no one to be their equal. Men find The power within the Aes Sedai absolutely terrifying, they've cultivated a culture where they're almost approachable. Because of that the world has lessened in power while there used to be many channelers of great power there are now few . I think in the future many will have children from a Asha Man. As far as the Asha Mans role in the world I think it will greatly focus on the military. Right now there is a border with a hostile Nation the Shawn Chan empire is there and I believe it will be kept in check by its current empress, but who knows what's going to happen down the line. If some general or one of her descendants come into power that wants to conquer the rest of the Westlands the ashaman are going to have to be there to meet them to counter their Domani. In a real way the Asha Man are the only ones that can do it. Aes Sedai are bound by the three Oaths and they can't kill people without themselves being directly threatened and honestly their powers aren't really geared towards destruction that's required in war. As far as the Black Towers relationship with the White tower, and I exclude personal relationships, I can see them growing separately or together depending on the leadership. Right now, the White Tower has been open to having an exchange student program with the sea folk and the Aeil. But I imagine that the same thing could happen with the Black Tower. An important thing to mention is that the powers of Saidin and Saidar work together to create the greatest wonders possible. In order for progress and a new world to come comparable to the age of legends they will have to work together.
Yes I think they will eventually combine. And they will eventually have one leader. I think this because Lewis Theron set at the head of an order of channelers of both sides. And his age will come again in the wheel of Time.
True, but prior to Lews Therin was Tamyrlin who first learned to channel, so prior to the age of Lews Therin, both black and white towers must fade to legend, or further and all channeling must be forgotten. So the organization that Lews Therin leads cannot be a direct decedent of the White or Black Towers.
SPOILERS? I'm imagining a world/age where there would be channels stationed in most villages. Where they would play the part of the wisdom of the villages and cities. Some town just have Ashaman some have Aes Sedia and others have both(if it's a red ajha). Maybe these stations would be separate for white and black towers and you would go to the white for healing, life advise ect... But when there are bandits or wolfs raiding your farm, you know you need. The black tower protects!!
You have forgotten the rescue of the Amadorien refugees, that is in my opinion one of the most important turning points. Moghedien saves the world, again :)
sighhhhh.... I want to watch this video so bad, but I am currently on LoC and the Black Tower is hardly relevant yet. Just want to say thanks man for getting me into the series. I ran into this channel around May by accident. I bought EotW in 2013 and never read it, but I ran into it and was looking for a decent review and boom here I am.
I know Androl gets a lot of hate, but he was one of my favorite characters of the last few books. The interaction between him and Logain, between him and Pervara. I think Androl and Pervara are the link that helps the black tower become great in the future. Along with Logain deciding to help the refugees in the last battle, their pairing lets the wold know the white tower is with the black.
I also really loved the Androl and Pevara storyline. Androl was the perfect point of view character to ride with for our first really in-depth look at what was happening in the Black Tower. And Pevara was the perfect partner, she was a Sitter for the Red Ajah, after all, and they were the 'bad guys' for much of the story. Pevara (and Silviana) show us just how skewed our perception of the Red Ajah had been for so long.They weren't all crazy narcissists like Elaida, or secret Black Ajah like Liandrin, Katerine and Galina.
I know, she is most definitely the definition of what the red ajah will become. If there would ever be a reunification of male and female channelers, it will most definitely start with these two. The sharing of emotion from the present and the past between these two will set a bar that will be remembered in the histories of both the white and black towers
You never mentioned the cleansing of Saidin in this. That may have been the most vital thing to happen for the Black Tower, and all men who can channel. Nynaeve healing madness would have been pointless without that.
One of my thoughts on the Black Tower is they need to relocate to someplace not controlled by any current nation. Currently they're in Andor and that can potentially create some sticky political problems. Maybe they can relocate to a river in the Caralain Grass or on the border of two rivers East of Far Madding. They could also form a "Grey" treaty with the White Tower where they give concessions on authority over their own members who have bonded a member of the other.
History shows us that humans divide easier than they unite. Specially in this case where the animosity is so embedded. The events at the last battle will definitely help, so will the binding of Aes Sedai by Asha'man and vice versa. There is another issue with their supposed unity, one that might be very underappreciated. The geographical distance of the two towers. They will be viewed as separate and will even have their own spheres of influence. All in all, they remain separate entities, friendly at times and adverserial at times. Open conflict might never occur as they have more in common with each other than regular people (in the sense that they can channel).
No. The world Amyrlin is a bastardization of the world Tamyrlin. The Aes Sedai of the Third Age. Basically stole everything they could from their superior predecessors, without learning anything from them. That is why they are such a failure.
The Black Tower was a conundrum for me. I understood it's purpose, it's manifesto, and I understood that Rand needed to set it up to bring back balance to the pattern. Rand had so many time constraints and was being tasked with so many duties that Overseeing it was impossible. And once he arranged, funded, determined rankings and given the first few out. He needed to let them gain their independence. The Ashaman were/are Aei Sadai just 2 sides of the same disc. Tar Valon with all its grandeur and acceptance was still rotting from the inside out. The black Tower was already considered corrupted and its internal strife reflected as much. Each of the Tavern added something to it, and it was kind of apropos that the original companions played pivotal roles in making the black Tower a beacon, rather than a eyesore. Anyway in time the 2 Towers will merge but they should never be one and the same. I would hope to see the black Tower grow in size and scope to Tar Valon while maintaining their autonomy. Tar Valon is a school, then the Black Tower is a military academy.
They are entering an age of rebuilding and innovation and we know that the greatest feats of the world were accomplished by male and female channelers working together. And they've already gotten a small taste of that. I would expect male and female channelers less tied to the Aes Sedai and the Asha'man to start working together out of practicality in order to rebuild the world more quickly. Eventually, the black and white tower would create a tenuous alliance once they see that working together would allow them to exponentially increase their abilities. Maintaining the alliance would then become be a powerful deterrent against the Seanchan. The ability to create links of up to 72 is a huge advantage and allows them to perform feats far beyond what the Seanchan would be able to defend against.
tl;dr : Towers will likely destroy one another, but then be rebuilt as a single entity Long form: The two Towers are destined for conflict, I'd say - likely even outright war. The inevitable wars against the Sharrans and Seanchan will cement the power of the Black Tower, to the point where it might surpass the White Tower - something the Aes Sedai will not tolerate. Probably within 100 years the White and Black Tower will outright war against one another, but the length and scope of that war would depend on how intermingled the Channelers managed to get in the 100 years or so, and how many families would be going to war against one another - mother vs son, father vs daughter, brother vs sister, etc. At best, cooler heads might prevail and realize that keeping the two separate will always lead to conflict, Tar Valon has too much history for the Aes Sedai and anti-male channelers, so a new place will need to be built. At worst, the two towers might literally destroy each other and the survivors would have to come together to create a new tower for ALL Channelers. That's where I would see it ending up - and given the history of the Wheel of Time, I would expect the new Tower to end up being in the Two Rivers/Manetheren. 5 of the greatest Hero's of the War of the Shadow came from that one little town, and they include people from BOTH Towers, so it would be a natural place to build a new combined seat for channelers.
My belief is that a third tower of some form will be brought into existence as a balance to the white and black towers strictly populated male and female channelers that have bonded especially because of the need of both parties in preforming tasks
I really feel like over a few hundred years that the towers will combine with less and less separation until the wheel demands it again. Also I would like to hear more about Lan, or the Red Hand.
I think there are two quotes from Logain that gives us a look into the future of the Black Tower. "The Black tower protects, always." This describes the role they will play in the fourth age. They will be Magic Knights rolling around helping people. The second is "The Black Tower stands with the Lion of Andor." I think this foreshadows an alliance between The Kin, the Black Tower, and the Crown of Andor. The Ashaman won't need the Aes Sedai at the White Tower to form circles because they already have hundreds of female channelers right down the road in Caemlyn.
i loved the end of the black-tower-arc, where the red ajah evolves from being the man-hating wenches they used to be , to becoming even more warrior-like then the green ajah, going from the only ajah that doesnt use sword-hands to being the only ajah to have not swordhands but ashaman partners, and their bindings go both-ways, as opposed to the one-way bonds the other ajahs have with their non-channeler swordhands. in this moment, they evolve from the ajah you just want to BOO off-stage, to becoming the over-powered "elite special forces units" of the dragon's armies :)
I guess he wouldn't. The M'hael title has been invented by Taim, and both the Ashaman and the Shadow called him that until the end. Logain never called himself the "new M'hael" or any such thing. I don't think the idea ever occured to him.
I actually really like that idea, especially since the Dragon’s Fang was a source of fear for thousands of years. Logain was also called Sealbreaker at the end of the series
I think the black tower will go in a more "Fort of defense" direction never really leaving it's military roots but better controlling them. Having relations with the White tower but being possibly the only entity not under it's power. I don't see black tower men becoming as detached or constricted as Ai sedaie the black tower nature of having family around and making connection makes them more down to earth and human.
Please ,please do a video about the Luc/Slayer/Isam characters. Its confusing and feels like the story line got abandoned then picked up again in AMOL then kind of dwindled away again. The chapters in AMoL were amazing though.
There were a lot of awesome storylines like this one that were rapidly wound up because of RJ's death. I certainly was glad Sanderson did as good a job as he did although it wasn't exactly the same.
@@xyr3s He was Rand's Uncle and Lan's Cousin. He was an arrogant Nobleman and the son of a betrayer. Both those people met each other in the mountains (While Luc was looking for Rand's future mother, the Queen of Camelyn) and they killed each other, but as Isam was a darkfriend in good standing, the DO had the bodies swept up, but Isam's mind was not whole, so the DO smushed both minds into the one still mechanically good body of Lord Luc. this caused Lord Luc and Isam to share a Body, with a pair of twisted minds (split personality, one evil the other corrupted). While in the Physical realm, you have Lord Luc's corrupted and Arrogant mind but in the dream he presents as Isam, the DarkFriend) This interference with a mortal changed him/them such that they can enter physically the world of dreams. It is not stated if one or the other could do so naturally before this, but it seems to be because of the DO, as Isam clearly did not have this capability given his childhood description at "the town". And Lord Luc surely would have been noted as being a strangely talented one as he was crown prince and would have trained at the Tower with the Warders.
@@xyr3s lol I have been re-reading this series since like '92 trying to piece together this series Jordan says more with what is not said than the other way around. He paints a picture with negative space. much like a sculptor reveals an image by removing material, so does Jordan Write. He never states that Lord Luc is Rand's Uncle, but he makes it clear who his mother is and during a re-read you will find that Lord Luc is her crown price, thus her brother, thus Rand's Uncle. And Slayer is the mesh with Isam who was an infant when Lan's Father was betrayed by his Brother, Thus Isam is Lan's Cousin, Thus Slayer is BOTH Rand's Uncle and Lan's Cousin. LOL and guess who Rand's GrandMother is on his Father's side. Hint she didn't return within 7 days from her first trip to Rhuidean, but she didn't die. Thus they do not say her name as she is "Dead". Hint: Egwene and Avienda each meet her, and Alivia also, although only Avienda has a meaningful conversation. What did she see in the rings that made her not return to the Mountain above Rhuidean... Perhaps that her grandson would die if she returned and must be presumed dead. She could not channel but she was a dreamwalker. What was Hiawatha's Grandmother's name? A little homework for ya.
I understood perfectly from the start the Dragon's choice to distance himself from the Black Tower. It all came down to an ideological problem and a connected political problem. Ideologically are you going to be a Tyrant-King by micromanaging everything , thus probably loose sight of the big picture.Politically how is the Black Tower going to be seen , he could not afford to have the world leaders say or see him use them as a weapon of control/tyranny. They would not unite under a leader that did , they had to be seen as at least somewhat independent.
Also, he has all the other nations and stuff he has to deal with. He has to leave someone else in charge. He plays the CEO to a bunch of different managers.
The biggest reason Rand distanced himself from the Black Tower is that he simply didn't have time to find/test/ teach these men. He talks about it in Lord of Chaos, that there is just so much on his plate that he NEEDS Mazrim to take this off his shoulders, even though he doesn't trust him, because otherwise there is no way that Rand could grow his Ashaman army..
Like most people here, I agree that the two Towers are most likely to merge at one point, possibly quite soon after where the books left off. As for the leader of this ''Gray Tower'', why not have two of them? Spartans are known for their ruling system consisting of two kings equal in authority. Furthermore, seeing how warder type bonds are rapidly evolving and being readjusted in the last few books, there could be a new type of bond for the M'Hael and the Amyrlin that would facilitate their working together.
I’m rereading for the second time. I think the Black tower would move to Tar Volen but would remain functionally separate in schooling and internal hierarchy. There would be an Amerlyn equivalent. And to most normal people both towers would be seen as functionally the same thing
I always wondered whether the green and reds would join the black tower due to it's battle nature and the reds wanting to keep an eye on the male channelers, meanwhile male channeler's who wanted less to do with combat would move over to the white tower
Think about it.. if the wheel of time repeats itself then by that sense alone.. black and white towers will combine. And then when 'Dragon' is born, he will be the the first among those who wield the power (Amyrlin seat)
I think Robert Jordan kind of lost his way with the Black Tower and it at least partially ended up being wasted potential. He should have spent fewer pages wasting our time with women talking in books 7-9 and instead brought up the Logain-Androl-Pevara plotline much sooner in the books. Androl and Pevara had quite possibly the most interesting relationship in the series, and Logain was a great character who was somewhat wasted. Should have given those characters more time and the horde of scheming Aes Sedai less. No way Rand is that negligent of something as powerful and close to his heart as The Black Tower. I understand that Rand can't be everywhere at once, but that is one thing that he could NOT just let go on its own.
I too would have liked to see more of the black tower early on, but I will say, I believe I read somewhere that Androl wasn't originally supposed to be a major character, but he was Brandon Sanderson's way of leaving his own mark on the series without changing other characters. I could be wrong. It was a while ago that I read that
This is my biggest complaint about the series as a whole - and the reason it took me three tries to get through the middle books. Anytime the story went to the girls' adventures the story itself ground to a complete halt while we sat around listening to them squabbling for superiority.
Hey Dan enjoy much of your content. Have you ever imagined The Black Tower and Saidin Flows in relation to Hip Hop music? Every MC alive today could be an Asha’man. Peace. The Wheel Weaves.
Possibly unpopular opinion: Androl was such a redundant character, all of his characterization, including double-bond with Pevara, should have gone to Logain. Y'know, the only other male channeller in Rand's age that we were introduced to since literally book one.
Yes too much character development was split, so you just end up with a mush of forgettable characters. This is one of the things the show can fix; consolidate character arcs. traits and events.
I think families are going to form between the black and white tower has they both have similar life spans, has well has working together like they did in the age of legends. the oath rod needs to be a punishment and used only when necessary.
Idk why people ask if the white and black tower will come together when the pattern will eventually come back to the age of legends where channelers will be one again
Hello Daniel Greene, I just stating watching your videos, loving them so far. I was wondering, do you have one where you talk about the ending of Wheel of Time, specifically what happens to Rand? That has always confused me a bit. I have a general idea of what happened and why, I think, but not really sure. Its probably pretty obvious but I just didnt fully get it. Any way thanks for the great content.
The fact that the Black Tower doesn't require any oaths makes for an important difference. The people will either distrust all channellers or will trust the white tower more in the world of politics, but the black tower can easily get involved in any military conflict and change the political landscape in ways the Aes Sedai couldn't. This would likely put the two towers at odds, resulting in wars. There may be women who join the Black tower to extend their lifespan, and men who join the white tower (under the reds, or maybe even on their own?) for their own reasons.
Except that the Three Oaths didn't work. People didn't trust the Aes Sedai because of them, when an Aes Sedai spoke, people immediately started to think how the words might be twisted, whereas if anyone else had spoken, they would not be thinking it was a lie. The lack of the Three Oaths will probably make the Black Tower more trusted by many, because it will make the Black Tower the more plain spoken, and easier to relate to.
Didn't Lews Therin refer to himself as the first Tamyrlin? Does that mean he at one point held the seat in Tar Valon before they opened the bore and the men went mad?
I would like to disagree about the Egweyn being the right person to face the Mahail, that fight belonged to the Black Tower, to Logain. In my humble opinion of course. The reason I say Logain should have fought and defeated Taim is simple. The white tower cleansed itself, the Black Tower needed help from the Aes Sedia from the Red to drive Taim out. But I feel that if Logain had fought Taim in a battle head to head with Logain winning the fight and proving that the Black Tower is strong enough that it doesn't need to lean on the White Tower or the Dragon Reborn would have been more fitting. As the Aes Sedia look down on the male channelers and see them as lesser. Also I still fucking hate the Red Ajha, and it felt really fucking forced at the end of the series to make two good Red Ajha characters last second. I was like dude, from day fucking one you basically had all of these bitches either be crazy bitches, or Black why are changing it now?
One of my biggest sore spots about the series is that the Black Tower and male channelers got treated like afterthoughts. Rand stands up the Black Tower and Dumai's Wells? Cool story bros, why don't you hang tight while Perrin whines about Faile for a few thousand pages. Ohhh snap, Rand cleansed saidin?? Cool story bro, let's just follow the foregone conclusion of Caemlyn's monarchy for a few thousand pages instead. Sanderson the 🐐 for bringing the boys back. Androl was a real one. And idk if anyone else felt this, but at a certain point I mentally casted Jason Momoa as Logain and impressed myself with my judgment
Hey, great thoughts in this vid. On my third read through, and I’ve been thinking about the Amazon tv series, trying to pick actors who will fit each role. Do you have thoughts on fan casting? With so many characters there won’t be budget for any big names, so young unknowns or up and comers will be likely. I’ve been bingeing on Hawaii 5-0 lately and I think Meaghan Rath could do well as Faile. Also, Natalia Dyer from Stranger things as Egwene, maybe? Would love to talk about other possibilities!
well the dragon is not just for show or hero but an honorific title given to the strongest and most wise aes sedai in the age of legends and now rand takes that position and although the white tower has its own leader they often defer to or serve the dragon so you could say an male channeler already did that
Was Logain really a pawn/puppet of the White Tower? Wasn't that a lie made up by Suian to make him help them escape to Salidar? I don't recall that it was ever shown that he was in fact a puppet false Dragon set up by the Red Ajah
Hello daniel, im planning to write a fantasy book, i will try to do my best, but if i do have big succes, i just wanted to tell you that if you ever see an anonymous author called "The Glacier" know it's me and that you have put a brick on that building, so, for now, Goodbye and i might meet you someday....who knows...destiny has strange ways to put us together...
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What do you think is the future of the towers??
I would see the Black Tower outstripping Tar Valon in power, influence, and sheer size. In less than a year it was close to the White Tower in size.
The Asha'man are much more involved with the world than Aes Sedi. As a military organization they will be moving around the nation in large groups more than the Aes Sedi. Also as a military organization they will probably work closely with the Aiel who will have dealings with all the nations (and that might help promote their cause). Also at the end of A Memory of Light when the Asha'man are helping the survivors of the Last Battle and all the people are looking at them with awe and Respect and not the fear that is sometimes shown Aes Sedi. And the mothers are promising to send their sons to be tested in the Black Tower, nothing you see women promising to do for their daughters to Aes Sedi at any time in the series.
(spoilers below)
I think they will continue to intermingle, as the Black Tower expands and comes into its own. It always frustrated me, while reading through the first few times, that Rand never took more of an interest in the Black Tower, never looked in on it to check on its progress or tried to teach any of the weaves he learned from Asmodean. It definitely makes sense though that he wanted it to stand on its own, and not to be associated too closely with the Dragon Reborn, given that he knew he would have to die(ish) at Tarmon Gaidon. I would have liked to see a final showdown between Taim and Logain, Light's False Dragon vs Shadow's False Dragon, although Egwene's sacrifice was a nice substitute, and a great way to end her story. For the Black Tower's sake though, Taim vs Logain would have been better, without the White Tower stepping in.
One thing the Black Tower has going for it, is that the Seanchan don't have any male a'dam, and with them holding half the westlands, that's pretty important. They(the Seanchan) will have to address their treatment of channelers as it is, now that they are aware that sul'dam and damane are both channelers, neither better than the other or more pure/safe, only education standing between them. The Black Tower has nothing to fear from them but death, and they will likely join the White Tower in trying to end the captivity of fellow channelers.
As a side note, do you remember what happened to Leilwin afterwards(being bonded to Egwene)? Did the warder bond drive her to some suicidal assault or was it even mentioned? I'd like to think her and Bayle got a whole fleet of ships and got chased by trollocs and Seanchan for the rest of their days.
Also, would love to see a breakdown of Egwene and the White Tower.
Well that relationship between the Aes Sedai and Asha'man might see further cooperation in the future. I could almost see them combining into one new tower. Maybe the grey tower?
The Black Tower also has a corner market on male Channeling, the Aiel Wise ones and Seafolk Windfinders may be connected to the White Tower but are not part of it, if Aiel or Seafolk men wanted to learn to channel the Black Tower would be their only option.
My favourite part in the entire series is when logain saves the civilians, a mother says when her son is of age that she will send him to the black tower to be tested for the gift. And then logain realises that she referred to it as the gift and not the curse.
Yeah it's so cool how that mother's line interrupts his internal grumping monologue. He's all pissed he gave up searching for that sa'angreal to help these people who'll probably resent ... What did she just say!? 😄
@@twig8523 yup, such a simple little thing to add into the book, and yet i ws like "woah, here come the tears" :D i didn't actually cry tho, i'm a guy :p
@@xyr3s
“Thank you," the young mother said again. "Thank you."
"The Black Tower protects," Logain heard himself say. "Always."
"I will send him to you to be tested when he is of age," the woman promised, holding her son. "I would have him join you, if he has the talent."
The talent. Not the curse. The talent.”
I got goosebumps reading that part. It was beautiful.
Yes one of the best !
Logain is your classic good guy in bad situations. Slightly insane but he was strong enough to resist the taint. Told he was evil, had to be stilled, told that his very essence was an affront to all living beings. Despite all of this he never fully broke and was able to pull back from the brink, recognize that mother's words, and change. True strength isn't being born good. True strength comes from facing the darkness and choosing to turn away.
I think that post Last Battle Logain will be the most important ruler around. He really came into his own towards the end.
Plus it was an Aes Sedai, Nynaeve who after numerous attempts, successfully reversed the 'gentleing'. Without her persistence, Logain would never have achieved his full potential.
Logain's struggle was always a personal one. As seen in his final scenes. It was his own temptation, his own ego, his own desire for revenge and power being fought by his own sense of right and wrong. And him making the active decisions to stand for what's right and not what was convenient and easy.
Androl was one of my favourite side characters.
Yikes
Androl is a trash-tier deus ex machina
He's great. I really loved him.
I'm all about Logain!
His and pevara romance was by far one of my favorite in the series
The Black Tower protects. Always.
I like how normally when something is black, it's always associated with darkness and evil, and yet the black tower protects :)
And they'll probably have to protect rulers, populations, from the influences of....the White Tower, which instead of protecting, always tried to control.
Cadsuane still has some lessons to learn, herself.
Always...
One moment that really stood out to me was Narishma asserting to the little tower that Eben Hopwill was a hero. As for the future of the Black Tower, I think they have one particular advantage over the White Tower in that people have really started distrusting the Aes Sedai due to how manipulative they've gotten over the years. As evidenced by Nynaeve's story arc, the White Tower has become very detached from their original goal of helping people while the Black Tower seems to be very likely moving toward that goal of helping people moving forward. I could see the Black Tower becoming as much as or even more of a reputable organization going forward and possibly being respected to the degree channelers in Aiel or Sea Folk culture are
I had forgotten his name. But yea. I definitely remember that scene. It really sticks with you.
Yeah, he went off, talking about how he died protecting his Aes Sedai... still gives me chills
It is interesting that Androl with his weak One Power level, a man who if he was female would not be accepted at the White Tower - has such a good grasp of Gateways. Without his Talent he would not even be able to make one but he can make one on such a scale that even a man with the power of Rand's would have a hard time matching it. Which might tie back to the absurd notion of the Aes Sedai that strength in the power trumps all other factors and how that is slowly starting to change.
As for the future of the tower, I think they will slowly merge with their female counterpart, though maybe as a sort of separate entity in the beginning? As they are at the same location but have their own grounds to work at.
Actually I had a pet theory about the giant personal residence tower Elaida was building during her mad reign would turn out to be a good place for the Black Tower to take up residence and train future Asha'man. But I dunno, we will probably get no definitive answer to that as we will not get any books about the aftermath. So I might as well just think that the Black Tower WILL do that I guess? I can always make more stories in my head. ;-)
I think Lew's therin says many times he was Aes Sedi, so maybe it will go back to the old ways
@@cthulhujankinx5652 Oh Lews Therin was Aes Sedai. In what was later called the Age of Legends both male and female worked together. I believe he was Amyrlin or the corresponding role at the time.
I am not sure this is fact but my head canon is that, while the wheel spins until the ages repeat I do NOT believe that the age is the same either. There will always be someone opening a hole in the Dark Ones prison and there will always be a Dragon to patch things up and a Dragon Reborn to fix things "permanently. The BIG stuff. Lews Therin and Rand wore the soul this time around.
Maybe last time or next time the body is female? Saidar is tained rather than saidin and there are MALE channelers (maybe Aes Sedai, maybe called something else) are gentling the few female channelers born with the spark and going mad and the... Dragonette? That doesn't sound right I know but I can't be bothered to find an alternative. Anyway, the Dragonette Reborn will once again cleanse saidar and defeat the Dark One, putting it back beyond time. Until the next age rolls around again.
I dunno, but that is my take. Jordan might have had other views as the author, Sanderson might know I suppose. But unless I hear specifically from the source that it is not how the wheel weaves it can wheel as the wheel wills for me. ;-)
Sorry about going off on a slight tangent. Yes, the books specifically says LT was Aes Sedai in his age. You hear it from the horse's mouth as it were. A MAD horse but still... :-P
But I also think that people will start working to make both half's of the source able to be weilded by men and woman.
@@cthulhujankinx5652 Was that not how the bore got made in the first place? ;-P Or at least the Lanfear excuse.
@@signaltome I was more referring to Rands ancestry as an Aielman, it shows a memory while he is in the ter'angreal of him witnessing an explosion, and it was said at some time that the aes sedi where making it possible for men and woman to weild the same power, but it failed and of course the explosion was caused
I loved Androl, it was nice to have someone as mature as him in contrast with what our main characters had been.
i really like how pevara and androl bond each other. aes sedai and asha aman bonded to each other fighting to help each other and both can channel. it's like they both have warders but both their warders pack the punch of a 100 normal warders :D
You know what would be great, and I haven't been able to find anywhere else, a really careful blow by blow break down of the Battle of Merrilor along with a discussion of Mat's various military maneuvers and tricks during it.
William Koch his use of Hinderstap was inspired.
Abigail Slade I fucking freaked out when I realised what he did! RJ sets his pieces well
I always took the reason why Rand never visited/helped the Blacktower was because he was afraid of a trap. I can't remember when (I think Towers of Midnight), but he said something along the lines of, 'the Blacktower will have to fend for themselves, I can not help them'. The tone made me feel like he wanted to help but couldn't, and that he regrets it.
This to me indicates:
1- He knows bad things are happening there
2- He can't travel there because of the Dreamspike
3- He fears the Dreamspike is there to lure him into a trap which he can't escape
It would be crazy for him to go to an area full of channellers that may not be on his side anymore.
I also don't believe he neglected the Blacktower as much as it seems. As the books go on, the flow of time slows down (and distorts with different POV). He visited the tower more often in its infancy; when things needed to be done. But when he put Taim in charge, there was a lot less for him to achieve there. The tower is self sufficient. I can't recall the last time he visits it but not visiting it for 4 books at the end of the series is like 2 books midway (there's also every chance he goes there off screen). So it seems like he's neglecting it, when in fact the same amount of time might be passing. Eventually he tries to visit again and can't due to the Dreamspike.
Thats true, also have to remember rand was starting to think and try to plan for the future, he wanted the black tower to be self sufficent, not just his army. My only grip was his lack of communication, itd be pretty easy to tell logain/mihail why he wasnt around. But just kinda kept it at cold sholder, thus what transpires.
I think that may be part of it, especially during the time when he was a bit unstable and paranoid. But I think the main reasons was that he was under the assumption that he would die in the Last Battle against the Dark One as the prophecies have foretold.
Therefore, he thought that if he lead the Ashaman directly and had them follow him, it would all fall apart when he died.
He didn't want that. So he let them build themselves up, to grow by themselves, so that it would stay strong even if he was not there.
All they would have had to tell Rand was a woman in the black tower was under threat & he would have helped.
Logain was one of my favorite characters back in the day, so even though I haven't finished reading the series I'm happy for the spoilers. Gotta love an anti-hero.
I really want to see more of Logain and Taim in the Amazon series. Personally I would like to see a little more of Logains inner darkness and a little less obvious darkness for Taim.
I strongly suspect Logain and Mazrim Taim will both have expanded roles in the TV show. How could they not? I think we'll see more of the Forsaken also.
Siansonea Orande that’s assuming they decide to add content rather than cut content. There’s definitely going to be a temptation to eliminate and consolidate story lines.
Black tower spin off mini series!!!! 😅
My favorite moment was at the end of the final battle, and the mother comes to Logain. I had to read that part several times cuz it was a profound moment and satisfying.
Androl genhold is my favourite contained story I love his relationship with pavara is great
Due to Cadsuane being raised to Amyrlin it's going to take time as she's old school Aes Sedai too prone to feel herself superior to others. I even question allowing The White Tower to regain power. My disgust with the White Tower grew with each new book. It's come to a simple 'what would be the point' of allowing this diminished archaic institution to continue? They call themselves the "servant of all" yet they served only themselves and what they wanted or needed. Their stature is fully called into question as more information is made available to The Wise Ones, the Kin and somewhat The Windfinders. I would rather have seen one of The Wise Ones take on the position of Amyrlin as I think the Wise Ones would be able to find more common ground with The Black Tower and expedite a merging of the male and female. The Age within the story is one of lack of balance and the New Age cannot flourish without gaining balance.
I also thought that Cadsuane was a very poor choice for the new Amyrlin Seat. She embodied what caused (almost) the downfall of the White Tower. Neurotic need to control everything, arrogance and valuing of power over true wisdom. The wise ones were justified for looking down on the Aes Sedai.
Agreed. Logain at the head of the Black Tower and Cadsuane as Amirlyn will almost certianly clash. And I hope Cadsuane gets slapped... a few times.
Didn't egwene serve all by sacrificing herself to defeat the dark ones army?
@@nyteblayde17 I think that's really going to be a sticking point.
The Aes Sedai suffered a TON of casualties during the last battle. Egwene healed and reforged the tower, she left a MAJOR impact on every Aes Sedai in the tower and even cleansed it of the Black. She gave her life to protect the world and she also instated laws that Cadsuane couldn't AFFORD to overturn. Kicking out HUNDREDS of potential Aes Sedai, including very STRONG channelers, simply because they're too old, would effectively be suicide.
And that's where the genius really comes in. Because of the Black Tower. They destroy the White Tower's monopoly. It's really this monopoly that caused the rot on the White Tower. There was nobody else before. Now they have to at least MATCH the Black Tower's numbers, so they can't just throw away hundreds of potential Aes Sedai. When they realize it WORKS and the tower is stuffed full of Aes Sedai, they're definitely not going to overturn it.
The Black Tower likewise earned MAJOR respect during the Last Battle, and Andor especially owes them a LOT. Thanks Androl. Not to mention, just throwing it in there, Elayne's "husband" MADE it in the first place, so that's definitely not gonna hurt. The Dragon's Peace will also keep things stable and let them butt heads politically instead of physically, resulting in healthy competition instead of hatred. The Red's recent disgrace mixed with Pavara's unique situation will more or less force a bond between the two, also smoothing over relations and as this double bond circulates more and more relations will only get better. Cadsuane is not a petty woman, she is very logical and will be able to recognize
1-It'd be political suicide to screw with the Black Tower, without which there would be NO WORLD.
2-Men are 100% confirmed NOT inherently dangerous, therefore continuing to hunt them down is wrong, and with the Black Tower being officially recognized not just by Andor but the common people as well, they HAVE to deal with them as a political organization. Any headbutting as i mentioned will be no more extreme than what's normal. The competition will make both sides better servants of the people, and we've already seen many instances where Aes Sedai are VERY excited to work together with men who can channel. The Yellow i think will be very helpful in creating strong ties between the Towers.
Cadsuane, of all the surviving Aes Sedai, was probably the BEST choice, short of in my opinion Moiraine. She was after all WAY better at handling Rand. Cadsuane is a strong person and will pick the best option available to her and get the White Tower back into top form.
A Wise One BECAME Amyrlin. Egwene WAS a Wise One. Not formally, but she was.
Great topic! I never understood why rand completely ignored the issues in the black tower, I mean he basically was handing them over to be turned. It’s almost a plot hole to me, no person in rands position would have ignored arguably his best tools for the final battle. It never made sense to me, I know he was busy & had internal conflicts, but still they were to important to ignore as he did
I feel the same. Maybe it was that rand had faith that logain would be enough of a leader to lead the black tower and keep it safe. But it irked me abit that at the end, most of the ashaman were like "screw the dragon, he left us to burn" lol.
I don’t think rand had any faith in Logain, the way I interoperate this is that rand woke up one morning and thought “any man should be able to channel if I can,” but then he saw what they can do and got scared of them rebelling against him like the chosen did. So he ignored them and left them to rebel... makes no sense, but I guess hindsight is 20 20
@@BMR3 i really hope not, that would really make rand not as smart as a leader should be. sort of like oedipus and his dad xD
Exactly! y ignore a great tool! he didn't trust "the leader" to begin with. after taint was cleansed he should have gone back or sent back someone in his stead.
Youre forgetting Rand was stark raving insane. And he felt a bit nervous and unsure of going to a place full of possibly similar mad men.
Androl is the most underrated character in the WOT series, he never gets enough of a mention but is so critical to the last battle and what would be the future of what comes after.
You know Nynaeve's influence on the Black Tower is bigger than just purifying Saidin. She's also the one who discovered how to cure Gentling/Stilling. And the first one she cured was Logain.
Just wanted to add, Nynaeve also figured out how to remove the madness from the men who can channel.
Already made one comment but wanted to add this. I do think you missed one key aspect of the black tower. The reason why people chose to join. Characters joined various armies in WoT for many reasons, mainly food and money, but the ones that came to the black were different. They knew they could effect the outcome of a battle or a war more than any soldier. They joined to make the world a better place and it would most likely be a world they would not be a part of prior to the events of Winters Heart. They joined to make the world better at the cost of their lives.
With the Taint lifted and the Shadow defeated, the only threat would be from the Seanchan. It would be imperative for the Black and White towers to combine forces. A new Age of Legends would be born as both male and female channelers exceed the knowledge and abilities of those from before the Breaking.
Your argument is good, I never thought about it, I just never understood the distance between Rand and the black tower, why he isn't more implicated but your probably right, he wanted the black tower to live and evolve without him, to be independent in this new world. It's good...
So the White Tower, like the American banking/housing/auto industries, was “too big to fail.”
There is one big factor you forgot about when talking of the 2 Towers eventually combining and that is Aviendha’s viewing about the future of her line and the Aiel. In that future the White Tower eventually falls to the Raven Empire after they are tricked into an alliance with the Aiel and the Black Tower is forced into hiding.
You can argue whether Aviendha is successful in heading off that future but it is the only glimpse into the future we have.
I believe that for the two towers there would likely be some level of exchange and co-existence established. But do I think they'd ever truly merge? No.
I think that both sides would further explore the possibilities that come with both sides of the power working together and the bonds that become possible, but I don't think the history between the two could so easily be forgotten that one would cede any real power over to the other. But I do think that there would possibly be new ranks established as well in both towers, for those who bond together.
What history between the two? The Black Tower is less than two years old. Within a few generations, most Asha'man will have never known a time when they had to fear the taint on saidin or being hunted down and gentled by Aes Sedai. There has been a shift in opinion among current Aes Sedai towards male channelers, with many having worked with Asha'man directly and having a positive experience, not to mention the Aes Sedai and Asha'man that have bonded each other. Not to mention as time goes forward, more and more Aes Sedai and Asha'man will born and will live never knowing a time when it wasn't the case that both female and male channelers could channel freely and frequently did so in cooperation. To them, having two seperate power structures would seem redundant, with training really being the only thing that need be seperated.
@@edwardsimpson119 Yes, the Black Tower is young, but the prejudice against male channelers is not. If you look at the real world and any two countries or cultures that have been in prolonged conflict, even if peace is established the prejudice is not quick to go away. It lasts for at least a couple of generations, assuming no new major conflicts.
Logain was one of my favorite Ashaman. Actually there were a lot of great Ashaman. If Mazraim wouldn’t have been a snake they would have been a force to be reckoned with at Tarmon gai’don. I mean they still were but imagine a united Black Tower standing with the Dragon.
Tbf, Rand is partly to blame for that. He never gave them any attention and even abandoned them to Taim for ages.
@@Arctic_Stark I agree Rand was definitely slacking when it came to the Black Tower but man some of those guys could have really been quite powerful. Look how Alivia held the mouth of the cave by herself at the end. She was the most powerful female channeler of the third age but most men were even more powerful then she was just based on the way the power works in the books. The men were more powerful on average.
Honestly, these deep dives are incredible and I hope you keep them around as a bi-weeklyish sort of thing. Your analysis is always so thorough, and it's amazing to have a medium with which all of us WoT fans can nerd out about this stuff.
You've grown so much bro. i kinda enjoy the decorum you show in these older vids. it makes the burning passion for this work shine all the brighter
Good job Daniel, nice analysis as ever. Without the black tower in this age it's hard to see the dragon winning. Calculated gamble by Rand but critical as a force and as importantly in helping Rand deal with his inner demons
I think there’s a really interesting psychological gender difference that is going to sort itself out as the black tower rejects the title of mhael due to taims crime.
The white tower has a leader that is selected in a very female way, social political action. The amarylin seat may direct aes sedai to tasks but she doesn’t order them. It’s a very communal system. Where agreements are made and there is limited room for personal objectives, in comparison to the towers objectives.
The black tower has no leader. Logain is the strongest, so he can order ashaman to tasks. But he doesn’t direct the tower. Ashaman have great freedom to follow personal objectives, but they need to fight and win over others to turn them into the black towers objectives.
I believe that “the black tower has no leader” is going to be a motto that helps it integrate into the world as it lessens the apparent threat of the black tower. And it’s this theme and “the black tower protects” that is going to cause the ashaman to be more open to everyday people. With supplicants being able to ask various specialist groups(maybe the blacks answer to Ajahs) for help.
I also believe that “the black tower has no leader” is going to be the way that it joins the white tower, in thousands of years.
And the Amryln will be replaced as Tamryln as it was in the age of legends.
Androl really knows how to think with portals
I love how both Taim's plans are screwed by Lanfear's pettyness in giving Perrin the dreamspike.
> "The absolute terror the breaking must have been."
I'd never really thought of that about Dumai's Wells, but yes I can see it now.
Ahndril is my favorite character from WoT. He's underrated.
Wow, I think he's the worst.
Androl?
As far as the White tower and the Black tower I see a future where they have literally found their better half. For so long aes sedai have had no one to be their equal. Men find The power within the Aes Sedai absolutely terrifying, they've cultivated a culture where they're almost approachable. Because of that the world has lessened in power while there used to be many channelers of great power there are now few . I think in the future many will have children from a Asha Man. As far as the Asha Mans role in the world I think it will greatly focus on the military. Right now there is a border with a hostile Nation the Shawn Chan empire is there and I believe it will be kept in check by its current empress, but who knows what's going to happen down the line. If some general or one of her descendants come into power that wants to conquer the rest of the Westlands the ashaman are going to have to be there to meet them to counter their Domani. In a real way the Asha Man are the only ones that can do it. Aes Sedai are bound by the three Oaths and they can't kill people without themselves being directly threatened and honestly their powers aren't really geared towards destruction that's required in war.
As far as the Black Towers relationship with the White tower, and I exclude personal relationships, I can see them growing separately or together depending on the leadership. Right now, the White Tower has been open to having an exchange student program with the sea folk and the Aeil. But I imagine that the same thing could happen with the Black Tower.
An important thing to mention is that the powers of Saidin and Saidar work together to create the greatest wonders possible. In order for progress and a new world to come comparable to the age of legends they will have to work together.
Love your Wheel of Time videos. Thank you for making them.
Yes I think they will eventually combine. And they will eventually have one leader. I think this because Lewis Theron set at the head of an order of channelers of both sides. And his age will come again in the wheel of Time.
True, but prior to Lews Therin was Tamyrlin who first learned to channel, so prior to the age of Lews Therin, both black and white towers must fade to legend, or further and all channeling must be forgotten. So the organization that Lews Therin leads cannot be a direct decedent of the White or Black Towers.
SPOILERS?
I'm imagining a world/age where there would be channels stationed in most villages. Where they would play the part of the wisdom of the villages and cities. Some town just have Ashaman some have Aes Sedia and others have both(if it's a red ajha). Maybe these stations would be separate for white and black towers and you would go to the white for healing, life advise ect... But when there are bandits or wolfs raiding your farm, you know you need. The black tower protects!!
You have forgotten the rescue of the Amadorien refugees, that is in my opinion one of the most important turning points. Moghedien saves the world, again :)
I don't think the Black Tower will use M'Hael as a title for the Black Tower. I think Taim kind of ruined the name/title for the Light.
sighhhhh.... I want to watch this video so bad, but I am currently on LoC and the Black Tower is hardly relevant yet. Just want to say thanks man for getting me into the series. I ran into this channel around May by accident. I bought EotW in 2013 and never read it, but I ran into it and was looking for a decent review and boom here I am.
keep going man, even when things get really slow in the middle with all the damned tea sipping and gossiping. the last book is imo pretty amazeballs.
I know Androl gets a lot of hate, but he was one of my favorite characters of the last few books. The interaction between him and Logain, between him and Pervara. I think Androl and Pervara are the link that helps the black tower become great in the future. Along with Logain deciding to help the refugees in the last battle, their pairing lets the wold know the white tower is with the black.
I also really loved the Androl and Pevara storyline. Androl was the perfect point of view character to ride with for our first really in-depth look at what was happening in the Black Tower. And Pevara was the perfect partner, she was a Sitter for the Red Ajah, after all, and they were the 'bad guys' for much of the story. Pevara (and Silviana) show us just how skewed our perception of the Red Ajah had been for so long.They weren't all crazy narcissists like Elaida, or secret Black Ajah like Liandrin, Katerine and Galina.
I know, she is most definitely the definition of what the red ajah will become. If there would ever be a reunification of male and female channelers, it will most definitely start with these two. The sharing of emotion from the present and the past between these two will set a bar that will be remembered in the histories of both the white and black towers
You never mentioned the cleansing of Saidin in this. That may have been the most vital thing to happen for the Black Tower, and all men who can channel. Nynaeve healing madness would have been pointless without that.
One of my thoughts on the Black Tower is they need to relocate to someplace not controlled by any current nation. Currently they're in Andor and that can potentially create some sticky political problems. Maybe they can relocate to a river in the Caralain Grass or on the border of two rivers East of Far Madding.
They could also form a "Grey" treaty with the White Tower where they give concessions on authority over their own members who have bonded a member of the other.
Thank you so much for your videos. They are very well said and well done. Probably helps that it is an amazing series!!!
History shows us that humans divide easier than they unite. Specially in this case where the animosity is so embedded. The events at the last battle will definitely help, so will the binding of Aes Sedai by Asha'man and vice versa. There is another issue with their supposed unity, one that might be very underappreciated. The geographical distance of the two towers. They will be viewed as separate and will even have their own spheres of influence. All in all, they remain separate entities, friendly at times and adverserial at times. Open conflict might never occur as they have more in common with each other than regular people (in the sense that they can channel).
Isn’t a male “Amyrlin” called the Tamyrlin?? I’m pretty sure that was Lews Therin’s title in the age of legends and he was the leader of the Aes Sedai
No. The world Amyrlin is a bastardization of the world Tamyrlin. The Aes Sedai of the Third Age. Basically stole everything they could from their superior predecessors, without learning anything from them. That is why they are such a failure.
The Black Tower was a conundrum for me. I understood it's purpose, it's manifesto, and I understood that Rand needed to set it up to bring back balance to the pattern. Rand had so many time constraints and was being tasked with so many duties that Overseeing it was impossible. And once he arranged, funded, determined rankings and given the first few out. He needed to let them gain their independence. The Ashaman were/are Aei Sadai just 2 sides of the same disc. Tar Valon with all its grandeur and acceptance was still rotting from the inside out. The black Tower was already considered corrupted and its internal strife reflected as much. Each of the Tavern added something to it, and it was kind of apropos that the original companions played pivotal roles in making the black Tower a beacon, rather than a eyesore. Anyway in time the 2 Towers will merge but they should never be one and the same. I would hope to see the black Tower grow in size and scope to Tar Valon while maintaining their autonomy. Tar Valon is a school, then the Black Tower is a military academy.
They are entering an age of rebuilding and innovation and we know that the greatest feats of the world were accomplished by male and female channelers working together. And they've already gotten a small taste of that. I would expect male and female channelers less tied to the Aes Sedai and the Asha'man to start working together out of practicality in order to rebuild the world more quickly. Eventually, the black and white tower would create a tenuous alliance once they see that working together would allow them to exponentially increase their abilities. Maintaining the alliance would then become be a powerful deterrent against the Seanchan. The ability to create links of up to 72 is a huge advantage and allows them to perform feats far beyond what the Seanchan would be able to defend against.
tl;dr : Towers will likely destroy one another, but then be rebuilt as a single entity
Long form: The two Towers are destined for conflict, I'd say - likely even outright war. The inevitable wars against the Sharrans and Seanchan will cement the power of the Black Tower, to the point where it might surpass the White Tower - something the Aes Sedai will not tolerate.
Probably within 100 years the White and Black Tower will outright war against one another, but the length and scope of that war would depend on how intermingled the Channelers managed to get in the 100 years or so, and how many families would be going to war against one another - mother vs son, father vs daughter, brother vs sister, etc. At best, cooler heads might prevail and realize that keeping the two separate will always lead to conflict, Tar Valon has too much history for the Aes Sedai and anti-male channelers, so a new place will need to be built. At worst, the two towers might literally destroy each other and the survivors would have to come together to create a new tower for ALL Channelers.
That's where I would see it ending up - and given the history of the Wheel of Time, I would expect the new Tower to end up being in the Two Rivers/Manetheren. 5 of the greatest Hero's of the War of the Shadow came from that one little town, and they include people from BOTH Towers, so it would be a natural place to build a new combined seat for channelers.
My belief is that a third tower of some form will be brought into existence as a balance to the white and black towers strictly populated male and female channelers that have bonded especially because of the need of both parties in preforming tasks
Hi I need to read this series soon... take care always like watching ur channel!!!
I really feel like over a few hundred years that the towers will combine with less and less separation until the wheel demands it again. Also I would like to hear more about Lan, or the Red Hand.
I think there are two quotes from Logain that gives us a look into the future of the Black Tower.
"The Black tower protects, always."
This describes the role they will play in the fourth age. They will be Magic Knights rolling around helping people. The second is
"The Black Tower stands with the Lion of Andor."
I think this foreshadows an alliance between The Kin, the Black Tower, and the Crown of Andor. The Ashaman won't need the Aes Sedai at the White Tower to form circles because they already have hundreds of female channelers right down the road in Caemlyn.
i loved the end of the black-tower-arc, where the red ajah evolves from being the man-hating wenches they used to be , to becoming even more warrior-like then the green ajah, going from the only ajah that doesnt use sword-hands to being the only ajah to have not swordhands but ashaman partners, and their bindings go both-ways, as opposed to the one-way bonds the other ajahs have with their non-channeler swordhands. in this moment, they evolve from the ajah you just want to BOO off-stage, to becoming the over-powered "elite special forces units" of the dragon's armies :)
I doubt Logain would keep the Mhael title, considering the crimes of Taim.
I guess he wouldn't. The M'hael title has been invented by Taim, and both the Ashaman and the Shadow called him that until the end. Logain never called himself the "new M'hael" or any such thing. I don't think the idea ever occured to him.
Tamyrlin Seat, like before the breaking. Men can take their place of power once again now that the taint is gone.
Perhaps since the Amyrlin Seat is the Flame of Tar Valon and the Watcher of the Seals he could be the Dragon’s Fang and the Breaker of the Seals...
I actually really like that idea, especially since the Dragon’s Fang was a source of fear for thousands of years. Logain was also called Sealbreaker at the end of the series
If Logain wanted to keep the old tongue styling. He could go with the title "Tar Shan". meaning Tower Lord or Lord of the Tower.
I think the black tower will go in a more "Fort of defense" direction never really leaving it's military roots but better controlling them. Having relations with the White tower but being possibly the only entity not under it's power. I don't see black tower men becoming as detached or constricted as Ai sedaie the black tower nature of having family around and making connection makes them more down to earth and human.
Please ,please do a video about the Luc/Slayer/Isam characters. Its confusing and feels like the story line got abandoned then picked up again in AMOL then kind of dwindled away again. The chapters in AMoL were amazing though.
There were a lot of awesome storylines like this one that were rapidly wound up because of RJ's death. I certainly was glad Sanderson did as good a job as he did although it wasn't exactly the same.
i really didn't like that character, it's like he was inserted just to be an antagonist for perrin and no other reason.
@@xyr3s He was Rand's Uncle and Lan's Cousin. He was an arrogant Nobleman and the son of a betrayer. Both those people met each other in the mountains (While Luc was looking for Rand's future mother, the Queen of Camelyn) and they killed each other, but as Isam was a darkfriend in good standing, the DO had the bodies swept up, but Isam's mind was not whole, so the DO smushed both minds into the one still mechanically good body of Lord Luc. this caused Lord Luc and Isam to share a Body, with a pair of twisted minds (split personality, one evil the other corrupted). While in the Physical realm, you have Lord Luc's corrupted and Arrogant mind but in the dream he presents as Isam, the DarkFriend) This interference with a mortal changed him/them such that they can enter physically the world of dreams. It is not stated if one or the other could do so naturally before this, but it seems to be because of the DO, as Isam clearly did not have this capability given his childhood description at "the town". And Lord Luc surely would have been noted as being a strangely talented one as he was crown prince and would have trained at the Tower with the Warders.
@@Hawkido how in the hell can I not remember that luk was rand's uncle? Lol.might have to read the books again
@@xyr3s lol I have been re-reading this series since like '92 trying to piece together this series Jordan says more with what is not said than the other way around. He paints a picture with negative space. much like a sculptor reveals an image by removing material, so does Jordan Write. He never states that Lord Luc is Rand's Uncle, but he makes it clear who his mother is and during a re-read you will find that Lord Luc is her crown price, thus her brother, thus Rand's Uncle. And Slayer is the mesh with Isam who was an infant when Lan's Father was betrayed by his Brother, Thus Isam is Lan's Cousin, Thus Slayer is BOTH Rand's Uncle and Lan's Cousin. LOL and guess who Rand's GrandMother is on his Father's side. Hint she didn't return within 7 days from her first trip to Rhuidean, but she didn't die. Thus they do not say her name as she is "Dead". Hint: Egwene and Avienda each meet her, and Alivia also, although only Avienda has a meaningful conversation. What did she see in the rings that made her not return to the Mountain above Rhuidean... Perhaps that her grandson would die if she returned and must be presumed dead. She could not channel but she was a dreamwalker. What was Hiawatha's Grandmother's name? A little homework for ya.
I understood perfectly from the start the Dragon's choice to distance himself from the Black Tower. It all came down to an ideological problem and a connected political problem. Ideologically are you going to be a Tyrant-King by micromanaging everything , thus probably loose sight of the big picture.Politically how is the Black Tower going to be seen , he could not afford to have the world leaders say or see him use them as a weapon of control/tyranny. They would not unite under a leader that did , they had to be seen as at least somewhat independent.
Also, he has all the other nations and stuff he has to deal with. He has to leave someone else in charge. He plays the CEO to a bunch of different managers.
The biggest reason Rand distanced himself from the Black Tower is that he simply didn't have time to find/test/ teach these men. He talks about it in Lord of Chaos, that there is just so much on his plate that he NEEDS Mazrim to take this off his shoulders, even though he doesn't trust him, because otherwise there is no way that Rand could grow his Ashaman army..
One reason Rand may have avoided the Black Tower was that Lews Therin hated men would could channel.
Like most people here, I agree that the two Towers are most likely to merge at one point, possibly quite soon after where the books left off. As for the leader of this ''Gray Tower'', why not have two of them? Spartans are known for their ruling system consisting of two kings equal in authority. Furthermore, seeing how warder type bonds are rapidly evolving and being readjusted in the last few books, there could be a new type of bond for the M'Hael and the Amyrlin that would facilitate their working together.
Amyrlin Seat and Tamyrlin seat for the Black Tower, like before the breaking, would be the best power structure in my opinion.
What I’ve wondered is do you think the black tower will eventually adopt the oaths by means of the oath rod like the white tower?
as Joe Rogan says, "put that mic right up to your face!"
I’m rereading for the second time. I think the Black tower would move to Tar Volen but would remain functionally separate in schooling and internal hierarchy. There would be an Amerlyn equivalent. And to most normal people both towers would be seen as functionally the same thing
I always wondered whether the green and reds would join the black tower due to it's battle nature and the reds wanting to keep an eye on the male channelers, meanwhile male channeler's who wanted less to do with combat would move over to the white tower
Think about it.. if the wheel of time repeats itself then by that sense alone.. black and white towers will combine. And then when 'Dragon' is born, he will be the the first among those who wield the power (Amyrlin seat)
You deserve a like and comment
You forgot the cleansing of the male side. That deffinetly had a major impact
I think Robert Jordan kind of lost his way with the Black Tower and it at least partially ended up being wasted potential. He should have spent fewer pages wasting our time with women talking in books 7-9 and instead brought up the Logain-Androl-Pevara plotline much sooner in the books. Androl and Pevara had quite possibly the most interesting relationship in the series, and Logain was a great character who was somewhat wasted. Should have given those characters more time and the horde of scheming Aes Sedai less.
No way Rand is that negligent of something as powerful and close to his heart as The Black Tower. I understand that Rand can't be everywhere at once, but that is one thing that he could NOT just let go on its own.
Rand would have went insane if he visited the Black tower much more... Lews Therin nearly took control in his last visit.
I too would have liked to see more of the black tower early on, but I will say, I believe I read somewhere that Androl wasn't originally supposed to be a major character, but he was Brandon Sanderson's way of leaving his own mark on the series without changing other characters. I could be wrong. It was a while ago that I read that
Plot mandated stupidity is the only reason for Rands standoff attitude for the Black Tower. Meanwhile he destroys armies when plot demands it.
This is my biggest complaint about the series as a whole - and the reason it took me three tries to get through the middle books. Anytime the story went to the girls' adventures the story itself ground to a complete halt while we sat around listening to them squabbling for superiority.
I would imagine them combining and keeping both an amyrlin and m'Hael and they just are equals
Hey Dan enjoy much of your content. Have you ever imagined The Black Tower and Saidin Flows in relation to Hip Hop music? Every MC alive today could be an Asha’man. Peace. The Wheel Weaves.
Thanks for this great video
Possibly unpopular opinion: Androl was such a redundant character, all of his characterization, including double-bond with Pevara, should have gone to Logain. Y'know, the only other male channeller in Rand's age that we were introduced to since literally book one.
Yes too much character development was split, so you just end up with a mush of forgettable characters. This is one of the things the show can fix; consolidate character arcs. traits and events.
I think we're most people knew the same thing with the bringing balance to the force
I know it's old but I like going over old stuff just to see what's possible
Androl and Pevara was the only late plotline I cared about
I think families are going to form between the black and white tower has they both have similar life spans, has well has working together like they did in the age of legends. the oath rod needs to be a punishment and used only when necessary.
Love the content. This video is super quiet
Idk why people ask if the white and black tower will come together when the pattern will eventually come back to the age of legends where channelers will be one again
Hello Daniel Greene, I just stating watching your videos, loving them so far. I was wondering, do you have one where you talk about the ending of Wheel of Time, specifically what happens to Rand? That has always confused me a bit. I have a general idea of what happened and why, I think, but not really sure. Its probably pretty obvious but I just didnt fully get it. Any way thanks for the great content.
The fact that the Black Tower doesn't require any oaths makes for an important difference. The people will either distrust all channellers or will trust the white tower more in the world of politics, but the black tower can easily get involved in any military conflict and change the political landscape in ways the Aes Sedai couldn't. This would likely put the two towers at odds, resulting in wars. There may be women who join the Black tower to extend their lifespan, and men who join the white tower (under the reds, or maybe even on their own?) for their own reasons.
Except that the Three Oaths didn't work. People didn't trust the Aes Sedai because of them, when an Aes Sedai spoke, people immediately started to think how the words might be twisted, whereas if anyone else had spoken, they would not be thinking it was a lie. The lack of the Three Oaths will probably make the Black Tower more trusted by many, because it will make the Black Tower the more plain spoken, and easier to relate to.
Nynaeve, ultimate healer!
The should move the Black Tower to Dragon Mount. Like teleport it there. Camelyn feels a bit too random.
The black tower protects always child
I'm here for Daniel's adam's apple.
Didn't Lews Therin refer to himself as the first Tamyrlin? Does that mean he at one point held the seat in Tar Valon before they opened the bore and the men went mad?
4:11 where is that image from?
Whoops, on book nine, should of waited to watch this
I would like to disagree about the Egweyn being the right person to face the Mahail, that fight belonged to the Black Tower, to Logain. In my humble opinion of course. The reason I say Logain should have fought and defeated Taim is simple. The white tower cleansed itself, the Black Tower needed help from the Aes Sedia from the Red to drive Taim out. But I feel that if Logain had fought Taim in a battle head to head with Logain winning the fight and proving that the Black Tower is strong enough that it doesn't need to lean on the White Tower or the Dragon Reborn would have been more fitting. As the Aes Sedia look down on the male channelers and see them as lesser.
Also I still fucking hate the Red Ajha, and it felt really fucking forced at the end of the series to make two good Red Ajha characters last second. I was like dude, from day fucking one you basically had all of these bitches either be crazy bitches, or Black why are changing it now?
I really thought that would be the unification of two towers, ah well :)
I agree they will one day merge. Wasn't Rand the head of the Hall of the Servants. And the wheel of time would turn that way again
I've always read Logain's lines in Alan Rickman's voice.
Too bad he's dead; he would have made a great Logain.
Nev G he was a bit old but his characterisation would have been epic.
One of my biggest sore spots about the series is that the Black Tower and male channelers got treated like afterthoughts. Rand stands up the Black Tower and Dumai's Wells? Cool story bros, why don't you hang tight while Perrin whines about Faile for a few thousand pages. Ohhh snap, Rand cleansed saidin?? Cool story bro, let's just follow the foregone conclusion of Caemlyn's monarchy for a few thousand pages instead.
Sanderson the 🐐 for bringing the boys back. Androl was a real one. And idk if anyone else felt this, but at a certain point I mentally casted Jason Momoa as Logain and impressed myself with my judgment
Hey, great thoughts in this vid. On my third read through, and I’ve been thinking about the Amazon tv series, trying to pick actors who will fit each role. Do you have thoughts on fan casting? With so many characters there won’t be budget for any big names, so young unknowns or up and comers will be likely. I’ve been bingeing on Hawaii 5-0 lately and I think Meaghan Rath could do well as Faile. Also, Natalia Dyer from Stranger things as Egwene, maybe? Would love to talk about other possibilities!
Fun fact playing destiny 2 the video game you go from the home hub being "the tower"
To your home hub being "the farm"....
🧐🧐🧐
well the dragon is not just for show or hero but an honorific title given to the strongest and most wise aes sedai in the age of legends and now rand takes that position and although the white tower has its own leader they often defer to or serve the dragon so you could say an male channeler already did that
Was Logain really a pawn/puppet of the White Tower? Wasn't that a lie made up by Suian to make him help them escape to Salidar? I don't recall that it was ever shown that he was in fact a puppet false Dragon set up by the Red Ajah
Hello daniel, im planning to write a fantasy book, i will try to do my best, but if i do have big succes, i just wanted to tell you that if you ever see an anonymous author called "The Glacier" know it's me and that you have put a brick on that building, so, for now, Goodbye and i might meet you someday....who knows...destiny has strange ways to put us together...
You'll need to write fewer run-on sentences like this one if you wish to become a widely-read writer.
@Daniel Greene Make a vid on what was our favorite thing to figure out... Mine is figuring out who Rand's Paternal Grandmother was.