Subaru Legacy, Setting Differential Preload -EricTheCarGuy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ธ.ค. 2012
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Subaru Axle Replacement Video: • 1997 Subaru Legacy Fro...
Differential Fail Video: • Differential Fail
Discussion About this video: www.ericthecarguy.com/componen...
So I decided to go for it and try and snug up the carrier bearings on my Subaru differential. As you can see in the video things don't go as planned but I also took the opportunity to show a little of how a differential works and how to set one up. I also cover the factory procedure for setting preload on a Subaru front differential so if you find yourself in a place where you have to do such a thing you'll have that information after watching this video. I've been driving the Subaru for a few days since I did this work and I can say that I really haven't noticed any difference. This might be helpful to you if you're doing this to try and address a hesitation issue with a Subaru. I don't think this will address that issue at all. In fact I feel my issue is inside the transmission which I may remove and rebuild at some point just to see if I'm right.
Stay dirty
ETCG
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I found that the best way to get these retainers moving is to use an oil filter wrench. Not the flimsy compression ones, but the ones that look like a large set of pliers that have teeth on them. Works perfect to remove the retainers (especially when having to change the o-rings out).
Excellent video. I love this sort of honest presentation - I really get sick of watching repair videos where everything goes perfectly because that's often not how it goes.
Love the air hammer!! I did this same procedure with my 99 impreza OBS about 45K ago because there was lots of play. I followed the book procedure about bottoming out the one side and backing out, then followed by the 1.75 + on the other side. I used 3-4 wooden dowels to drive the larger tabs. Had the driver side be very stubborn and used a MAP torch to the outter housing just a biit after applying some penetrating oil and tapped in the loosening direction first and she broked free finally. Snugging these up cleaned up a whine I was getting under steep cornering at low to medium speed. If you put in new seals, and you count the turns out in order to return the preload to the same spot upon reinstall, be sure to apply some outward pull on the plate because because there is some resistance of the seal on the spline which can fool you into thinking you are still unscrewing threads and counting.... but alas you have been clear of the threads for unknown turns.
A lot of so-called professionals don't do their job as they should, we can see honesty and professionalism throughout the repairs you have shared with us, screw all haters, their ignorance and ingratitude.
A four wheel drive hub socket works perfectly to remove the shaft seal plate. Make sure if you are removing it to replace a leaky seal that you mark it like Eric did and count the turns necessary to remove it. Do one side at a time. The play is normal as the front differential is free floating. There is a separate part number for the left and right hand seal. Very important that you get the correct one otherwise they will pump the oil out of the differential and transmission (common sump)
so my 2015 wrx has play on both sides, is this normal????? i was going to pay a tech to replace the rubber seals cuz it was leaking, and he said he couldnt because he found some play in the bearings.
I'm not familiar with a clutch that sends power to the front wheels (automatic trans), but I am familiar with the "center diff" which is actually an electro clutch that controls how much power is sent to the rear wheels since the rear wheels get 10% torque split under normal circumstances and increases up to an even 50-50 split when it senses wheel speed differences between front and rear wheels. It's my understanding the front wheels are always powered by the transmission no matter what.
It always amazes me to see these videos and to see all the rust in the well everything. Makes me appreciate living in Florida.
Eric don't let these guys hate on you man, you do great work and have taught me a lot. I got my first car and have come to your videos for help on the things I've never done. I could have done them otherwise but your tips made it that much easier.
I have the same issue. My axle shafts are loose also. Just changed the steering rack and then cv joints which I though were shot but actually not that bad. I was getting some loud banging noise especially at slow speeds and small bumps. Now I realise it was the axle shafts. Really keen to give this a go. I have 360k on my SF5 Forester GT already but other than this it’s running awesome. THANKS FOR YOUR VIDEO.
Hi Eric,
Michel from the Netherlands here,
I couldn't help seeing those tube's on the ceiling in your garage,
you would save money if you replaced them for LED lighting!
Just a little help and i like your vid's, it's nice to hear and see you talk and explain those car maintainence jobs.
LEARNED A LOT FROM YOU, MASTER!
All the best wishes to you Eric,
see you in the next year!
Eric, this was a great video. It goes to show not everything comes apart easy and the difficulties of this trade. Especially when you have a very brittle, hard to work with material like cast aluminum.
I have a 1987 model ford scorpio. Rear differential preload adjustment is almost identical to your subaru's differential. Pinion and crown wheel distance (i mean backlash) was not the case in my car but the spider gears were far from each other. I could move the axle side of the differential back and forth but the drive shaft was not moving. I have been planning on putting shims/washers under the spider gears in order to get them closer. Your videos give me courage. Thanks :)
Great video Eric !
I thought that what you want to do (removing the diferential spider´s free play) is done removing the diferential spiders itself and adding shims.
Tightening the preload on the bearings only set the diferential/final drive crown more in or out.
Cheers !
Was the noise you were listening for making tight parking lot maneuvers a shuddering sound similar to that of a chatter limited lip differential will make in a p-up?
Eric the Car Guy Marathon, baby!!
The viscous coupler has some hard plastic bushings that use the aluminum case to hold them in. Over time they wear a spot into the case and the VC loses fluid pressure. Subaru fixed the issue with 1998 or 1999 transmissions with a steel sleeve to stop it.
In a situation like this it would be more trouble than it's worth in my opinion. There comes a point where all you see is diminishing returns and it's best to just cut your losses in those situations.
Hey Eric! Your camera angles alone make you awesome! Thanks for making this video! You had me screaming at the screen @ the air hammer lol
I think at this point it's a problem with the clutch that drives the front wheels. I won't know for sure unless I do some more testing or take the transmission apart.
I had a Chevrolet Venture awd, that had the same issue and it was the transmission...... But I like what you have done with this car so far....
Eric, good video.. Very much a real world attempt for those of us who have encountered such problems on our vehicles.. Keep the videos coming.
Great videos, Eric! Both of them on this subject. Thank you for taking the time.
I used a 3 pronged small Oil filter wrench with a 3/8 connector to turn it loose and also put back on. It worked perfect!
Hey there unfortunately am having the same problem.where you able to replace the bearings with out removing the transmission?
I agree. I used same tool... Works perfect.
Good job
Eric, Thanks for this informative video. I have pretty much the same car - '96 Outback with pushing 200k miles. Just did the front axles and may have to redo them because they feel like they are binding on low speed turns. Anyway, I am going to look for a large cheap China socket - looks like another 32mm? - and grind four slots in it to fit over the spline and raised quadrants on the retainer. I learned that trick from fellow TH-camr Dean Segovis making a special Honda motorcycle clutch removal tool for his CB750 on Hackaweek. I'll let you know how it ends up.
That's exactly what I was going for. Thanks for the comment.
I replaced a set of axle seals for the front diff. You have to take those Carrier adjusters completely out and the seal hours I the back aside of the adjusters. Very fun :)
Oh I understand now, thanks for clearing that up. I thought you might be talking about the clutch setup controlled by the Duty C solenoid that meters and sends power to the rear wheels on demand. I see what your specific issue is now, that that doesn't sound too fun!
Thanks for sharing Eric, doing things that seem unorthodox always intrigue me. I do this all the time, and if there is no real harm in it either way - what do I have to lose? I know that on an older less expensive vehicle that is showing some slop in the bearings is something I would risk adjustment just the way you did. Like you said, it's an experiment.
And... it was enjoyable to watch.
Thanks.
Thanks for keeping your word and making the video.
Eric you still the best. This video as any video you put always rocks. It not your job to be posting video online. But because you care to help a lot of us you spend a lot of your free time to help us and for that I thank you. Happy Holiday. Remember stay dirty..I just finish adjusting my valves on my accord 05 thank for your video, thanks to you it was easy as replacing my front brakes...
Those carriers have two missions. Preload the bearings AND set the play on the spider/pinion gear. When setting the bearing preload only you need to adjust equally on both sides or youll change the play between spider and pinion gear.
I need to know more about this ...lots more as I need to check and set mine this weekend
It's hilarious every time watching this clip especially the air hammering part. I happened to find the Fram Oil Filter Pliers FW401 (walmart) can spin it a little bit easier than the punch and hammer while my transmission sitting outside.
13:10 I don't know why but that cracked me up so bad! Love the videos
Hahaha, Eric, I love this video! It makes me so much better when I know I am not the only one who breaks stuff, as you did on your car like this through trial and error. You Sir have made my day, And I soooo mean that with the best intentions. Keep your awesome vidoes coming I like watching them, as well as learned a lot from you. Stay forever dirty boss man. ("Or i'll fail miserably.... Chip,Chip... Yeah fail miserably...") Seriously people how can you not love this Man's humor.
Eric I think I'm going to agree with you that it has to be something in the transmission. Check out a possibility with the Duty C solenoid, that is part of the AWD power transfer system. Cool video though I had no idea that there was adjustment that could be made there.
just a suggestion in terms of marking the original position, (as someone who has had the experience of not being able to find the markings because they wore off or washed off ect) use a punch and put a dot or two dots into the ring and housing! great vid!
It's a clutch drum who's pressure is controlled by an electronic solenoid on this transmission. I suspect that clutch is worn and slipping causing the delay on acceleration.
Then you would spin the front wheels. All the power go to the front if the enter diff clutch fail.
videos like this are great, gives a good idea of what will and will not work if ever put in the same situation. i really thought that air hammer would work byt the way, you could also make a dif wrench if you have a welder.
Eric....whether you succeed or fail, your videos are always informing and provide us all insight on what projects we could possibly accomplish. Ha ha I have to tell you Eric that you remind me of Puddy, Elaine's laid back boyfriend on Seinfeld.
Haters gonna hate Eric.
Keep up the awsome job you are doing!!
Honestly, I don't think it would. I think the real problem is in the clutch that sends power to the front wheels in the transmission. Won't know till I get it out of there though.
Well you could always opt for a used tranny, you can get one around my area (pittsburgh) for $300 for the 2.2L engine and $400 for the 2.5L, just a thought. Great video Eric I watch every one and they are always informative!
I rebuild and repair these transmissions and I have a socket that I made for the removal of this retainer. It started life as a 41mm socket (if I remember correctly). I cut the four notches in it, similar to the Subaru tool to remove these. But the Subaru tool does not offer a lot of leverage compared to my 1/2" drive socket and long ratchet.
Those axle shafts that stick out of the diff are held in place with snap rings on the inside of the spider gears. If you study an exploded diagram of the assembly you'll see what I mean. It's not loose carrier bearings. It's slop from age. I always use a dial indictator to adjust lash.
These differentials are a rack and pinion drive, no spiders. Yes about the clips on the axles after 2004 or or so, before that is a locking pin on the axle you have to punch out.
I really appreciate all the videos man. Long live the tall grey!
feeling sick? try treating Gastritis, for yeast, with liquid garlic, alpha lipoid acid, tums x five times a day, melatonin at night to recharge the entire system. eat ginger, kale, cabbage, echinacea extract, turmeric root extract, lemon and water. try to avoid seltzers, beers, burgers, bacons, hams, eggs, bagels. etc. and no homo, don't stress yourselves out with the gym, try sitting in Indian style, like a guru, then if you really have pain, try Hatha Yoga. Light on Yoga. This is for everyone dealing with dirt and constant coffee burns...And Pig Destroyer is definitely the best hard core metal shop music I can offer.
Nice, I knew this video was Coming, Was wondering how this worked. Thanks Eric, you rock broski.
Cool vid. I never knew that preload could be adjusted from the outside like that.
Yes, I thought I showed that in the video.
Eric, thanks for posting this. It was interesting and amusing even though it did not work for you. Keep it up man, Stay Dirty
It can be but the real question is should you?
You had fun makin it, and I had fun watchin, ha ha. Presumably Subaru have a fancy, expensive, single use tool to match that pattern on the case.
I'd like to understand how AWD works and what differentiates it from 4WD, so it would be great to see what might come next. But I also understand it's possible to mess things up, and at the moment you do have a functional vehicle that somebody depends on. Cheers.
My thoughts on this even though I'm 7 years late!
Firstly Eric, love your channel.
Watched heaps of your content so I know your a great self taught mechanic with a good scientific mind.
This video was highly entertaining.
I'm thinking if pinion backlash is your problem, as I suspect it is with my '03 Impreza Wagon, then you'd need to move the entire carrier one way or the other.
This would be done by tightening one side and backing out the other depending on which direction you need it to move (I'm sure you know this now).
Considering you couldn't break one of the threads it's no surprise you're effort was not successful.
I'm gonna give this a go at both my diffs.
My car feels like riding a jackhammer when I float between coast and load and the idle wants one or the other.
Very irritating!
Did you try it? My front diff ring/pinion had backlash and resonates and whines when unloaded as you describe in your comment.
so my 2015 wrx has play on both sides, is this normal????? i was going to pay a tech to replace the rubber seals cuz it was leaking, and he said he couldnt because he found some play in the bearings.
I've seen a four toothed socket used for front wheel bearing locknuts on 4wd fords looks like it would fit perfect in there.
That noise you had heard while turning tight is actually toqure bind coming from the rear drive clutch assembly in the tail housing of the transmission. While you failed at trying to tighten the carrier bearings the premise of your fix seems like it would've worked. I've own/ed a couple Legacys and both had this play in the front diff output shafts. I've noticed this play on many other Subarus with auto trans and I believe this is normal and shouldn't be adjusted. Not broke don't fix it.
Grasias ERIC the car , por el videos ,,, muy esplicado , y entendi todo ,,,,, espero que tu tambien entienda mi comentario,, from Nicaragua..tu amigo ,,
Thanks for sharing, Eric.
Just changed me cv shaft last week and get a shift on corner but only bought the 2000 legacy for $500 so I'll just drive until it breaks. Thanks for the help
The Viscous Cupling is very common to fail on all Subaru's.. the way to tell is that when you are doing a full lock U Turn,you can feel thr front wheel are turning at the exact same time causing the wheel to chirp..
hola Erik, soy de Buenos Aires, muy buen video, me ayudo bastante, seconds ago, i buy the axley of both sides jaja.
"a brass 'one of these'" lol. Keep up the great work.
I believe the factory set play on the passenger side is normal. It prevent overloading and binding the bearing on that side when the pinion applies force to the ring gear.
hi eric, im having a problem with my map sensor on my 99 legacy, i believe i have a short circuit between the +5v wire and the signal wire, because when i disconnect the sensor and test the connector between the ground wire to the ecm and the signal wire i get 3.65 volts when i believe i should have 0 volts with the sensor unplugged on the signal wire, have you done any videos on tracing wires back to the ecm, if not im sure if you made one it would be helpful to others as well, thanks
Haha, 7 years later here, heard my forester was making like a hammering strike noise with every spin of the wheel when you take the brakes out and she begins to run on her own, turn out the differential had a lot of play, took it like 1 turns plus 6 more teeth to tighten the left side following the instructions before tightening the right side to spec
My question may be unique. I live in alaska where it gets very cold. I never messed with my retainer preload before or my cv axles only thing i did was replace front dofferential fluid. And one day the front left retainer bolt broke out sounding terrible when it did and took some of the differential housing with it. Do i need a whole new front differential cus it looks to me like alot of work to pull the entire differential
My wife's 09 forester has this bad!! It clicks like its fetching up during any tight turning.. I basically avoid take such turns for now but I'd like to try this out.
Hey Eric, Im about to buy another Subaru and plan on swapping in the 5 speed from my other Legacy. It has VERY slight front diff carrier bearing play. Would it be worth taking to the transmission shop and have it checked out BEFORE I put it in the "new/used" Subaru I am buying? I imagine so but like your opinion
i have the exact same car and it doesnt always have the hesitation but i noticed if you put it in first gear and shift manualy from 1-D you wont get hesitation hope you read this and helps you on your quest because itll help me on mine. BUT WATCH THE FUEL FILLER NECK IT RUSTS LIKE NO OTHER VERY COMMON PROBLEM ON A LOT OF SUBARUS DUE TO THE PLASTIC COVER ON IT!
I got a good question for ya, what liquids do you prefer when lubricating,penetrating, dissolving rust, electro sprays, rust/corrsion prevention, and so on.
hey erik, this is not fail video. as you said someone asking how to preload those bearing and you did it but just unfortunately the LH side is ceased but you did it.
Eric, what if the axle has pulled out from the diff about 1" - shiny metal shaft is showing, I could still feel the pin for the axle, and car does not move at all...I think something broke in the transmission or differential..
to break free the retainer without a specialty tool. Use a pvc coupler. Can't remember what sized but it should engage in the gap between the 20 teeth and the raised ring at the base of the 4 teeth. Now dremel or hacksaw either 4 teeth or 4 notches in the face of the coupler so the pvc bottoms out against the diff retainer in the gap. It's important to make your cuts so all 4 side walls on the cuts engage with the sidewalls of the 4 teeth in either direction. Coupler cuz it's thicker than pvc pipe. Now you can grab your ghetto special tool and spin it with a strap wrench or bolt in a piece of pvc pipe, drill a hole in the pipe and spin from the holes with a breaker bar. You can even get a helper to push the pipe against the retainer while you turn.
Decided to measure it and its a coupler with an OD of 2 3/4 inches. Still got it in the tool box.
How ironic is this? This video is 4 years old yet I'm about to do this on my 2005 WRX this week. I tried this before on my old 2000 outback and broke tons of teeth doing exactly what Eric did in the video. I find this video and was looking for DIY tools and you somehow posted 10 hours ago.
That's a BRILLIANT idea, it's perfect. Can't thank you enough!!
Brandon mind showing how you did this? I need to do the same to my 2005 wrx... like now
I haven't done it yet, I'm just going to try it. I actually found a guy who made an awesome tool for this who wants to sell it to me and I'm on the fence as I really just want to rent it. PM me on NASIOC, my SN is BrandonDrums. Perhaps you can buy it and then I can buy it from you or something or 'rent' it.
tinypic.com/r/2eg9qht/9
tinypic.com/r/eukppw/9
tinypic.com/r/2qm0toh/9
I took some photos for reference. I also made two separate alignment marks with nail polish on the retainer and diff face. two separate colors. two since one set was a backup in case something happened with the 1st.,Then meticulously counted and recorded how many turns it took to remove.
I have a 1994 svx and Im in the process of switching the gears from one differential to another. After I remove the retainers how can I wiggle the whole gear set up out of the case??? My old broken one was easy to get out because it had female splines. The good gears I'm about to take out of the bad case have male splines like in this video. Sorry if Im confusing you I would just like to know the easiest way to get it out. #projectsvx
You could probably make simple tool out of straight iron or angle iron. If you drill hole for drive axel you could even attach it with that pin and some large washers.
These are the best videos on youtube. You know how we have make-magazine? we could start a new style called car-magazine repairing all types of cars with cool people like eric. Thanks
I am having trouble removing the carrier bearing. I took off the bearing pre tensioner plate. Got a bearing puller on the bearing and all a accomplished was bending the outer race off. Now I cant get a bearing puller to grab the inner part of the bearing to remove it. Can I just pry the axel stub out with the bearing attached. Any help would be great.
Hey Eric. Can you do a video on your opinion on the long term reliability of AWD or 4WD vs FWD? More specifically, from a mechanics point of view, does AWD or 4WD create a nuisance somewhere down the road, or can it last as long as FWD if maintained properly?
Hey Eric!
Why not use that new shiny Tig welder of yours to weld up a wrench for the retaining rings?
Should not take you too long to do, all you need is 3-5x small steel pieces, a round plate with a hole big enough for the outputshaft, a pipe with higher diameter and length than the shaft and a steel boxpipe (not sure what they are called in English) in 3-4mm steel with 1/2-1meter lenght (length is not that important since you can add on with a bigger pipe anyways).
Just a thought.
Did you have room for a pipe wrench? I've used pipe wrenches on older Subarus with great success.
I had the same problem now I have a broken pinion gear. How about a video on how to change the front differential on subaru. No transmission place around wants to.
Have you found anything mine just broke today transmission shifts fine smooth but when in motion it get stuck and the loud clacking noise is coming from the front differential
maybe abit of heat might do it if it;s got play. my q? is could you remove the retainer and replace those bearings then put the retainer back on and tighten to spec with diff still on the car or do they need to be pulled completely apart to be pressed off and on those shafts? might make the diff last longer if you could
Hey Eric! My 94 RS Subaru had a similar problem. it was in the clutch pack of the center differential. Maybe your Subaru is different. Next video of your Subaru could be a L.M.S.B (light match, stand back)
Interesting. I would love to hear about your experience with the cvt setup.
My 2011 outback cvt obviously has a torque converter issue. But, let's just say it was ok.
Mine came to a complete stop and hasn't moved since. In your opinion, how can i rule out the transfer case?
I haven't jacked up the front wheels yet, but what should they do when spinning by hand?
I also have a p0841 and p02570 codes. Transmission pan removed, no metal shavings anywhere and fresh drain and fill cvtf, twice.
All value body solenoids measure fine.
Im just curious about the transfer case. Yes, fresh oil too. No drive shaft movement or torque converter codes . POS. Does the rear differential have anything to do with immobility?
Great video just the same Eric.
Will adjusting these retainers help the loud bearing noise coming from the transmission ? I have a 2003 wrx and sudden bearing noise pretty loud idk if these retainers got loose or were too tight
I have the exact same car 97 outbAck wagon, just bought it last night and my drive side wheel looks like it has camber, which is not suppose since no other wheel have it, also
It’s very clunky when driving, ERIC I NEED YOU HELP
hey eric i have at poblem or at question ...i have at 1995 legacy my at iol temp star flashing 16 time whet i turn the engine ... i need to know what i need to do
Leaves me wondering if you did the other side of the hesitation would of went away. The way you explain how the diff works leads me to believe the play in the bearings could have an effect on the hesitation you have.
Is the information on the front differential preload available from Alldata online?
I have the same kind of hesitation on my 97 Honda Accord, it feels like its shifting from 1st right to 3rd sometimes when accelerating. Like Eric, it doesn't happen all the time, like when I try to show it to my tech, it doesn't happen. I did notice that using E10 gasoline makes it occur more than when using pure no ethanol gasoline.
wouldn't that affect the AWD system in the Subie? i feel that at some point you are having more torque(more contact) on one of the sides. Subies are really picky even for tires... you have to have the same pattern in all the tires or the AWD supposedly gives different amount of power to the wheels
Great video of what NOT to do when removing the retainer! 😂
there is probably a special socket for adjusting them you could make one out of an old big socket and grind some teeth into it to match the ring but like u said it might just be a temp fix.
If you can buy replacement retainers; think it could be worth your time to just rid yourself of them old ones and replace them???? If that is possible then it seems to me that you should be able to finish the job. Just asking and wondering; I'm totally new to getting dirty under vehicles.
I believe ur issue is the rear differential i believe Subaru calls it the center diff like u said but in the rear of trans...Runs awd... The part is a viscous coupler and mini differential built all in one on an automatic there is a spot somewhere u can add a fuse n it will put it in 2wd and u can see if the problem is gone. The viscous binds an dont unlock when u turn tight. it is a sealed unit fluid change will not help. Its serviced as a complete unit... cause is usually uneven tires it over
Eric i think urs is an older model so the fuse box is on right side of the firewall i think there is a smaller little fuse holder to add the fuse. New sub's are on Lf of engine bay near battery n the fuse spot is right in the fuse box. Manuals do not have that option. I did one in a manual trans once... customer is an older gentleman an was more than impressed an has reccommended lots of new custmers. Job is a piece a cake in the car 2 hrs if ur good pry 8 if u suk...
Soft bits of casting can be hard to budge for sure, it doesn't necessarily work out, at least your honest and haven't edited it, a piece of metal bar stock that would span across the circumference with a couple of lugs tack welded on the bar to catch a cast tooth each side might have worked. Make an improvised tool would be the way to go I think on this one.
I was like "NO!" When I seen the chisel being used instead of a punch.
thanks bro good advice
hey what happens if that gear sticking out that the axel connects to comes out??