World War Two Heats Up: The M1928A1 Thompson SMG
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By 1939, Auto-Ordnance was thoroughly bankrupt, having about $400 in assets and a debt of more than $1.2 million to the estate of the late Thomas Ryan, it's original financier. Ryan had died in 1929, but the company shareholders had prevented his estate from forcing the sale of the company for a decade. In 1939 they could hold out no longer, and the company was sold to one Russell Maguire, a high profile corporate raider.
Maguire, however, saw the potential of a submachine gun company on the brink of a new world war, and negotiated a contract with the Savage Arms Company to begin new production of Thompsons (the original Colt guns from 1921 having finally all sold). Orders began to come in from Europe, and new Model of 1928 Thompsons were sold to France, Sweden, and most substantially, the United Kingdom. The US military would also start buying Thompsons in quantity (designated the M1928A1), but the UK orders (paid for in bullion) were a massive source of profits for the company.
Auto-Ordnance would roll some of these profits back into the company, buying an old automotive brake factory in Bridgeport Connecticut and tooling up their own production of receivers and trigger frames to supplement Savage's production. A number of changes were progressively made to the guns to simplify and speed up their manufacture, including smooth barrels, stamped ejectors, vastly simplified rear sights, and horizontal front grips. By the time the M1928A1 was replaced by the M1 Thompson, more than 1.1 million had been made by AO and Savage combined. The Thompson had at last found it's purpose!
This is the third of a 5-part series on the development of the Thompson...
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How to confuse someone in WW2: Ask him to get you a M1.
M1 rifle, M1 carbine, M1 submachinegun, M1 helmet, M1 bayonet...
M1 dishwasher cleaner
76mm M1
M1 bazooka
To be more precise: "US RIFLE, CALIBER 30, M1"
1939 was probably the worst possible time to sell stakes at an arms company.
Depends if it's one that gets bombed out continuously for the next 7 years or one in the US far away from any damage but churning out the moneymakers...
Well, we have the benefit of 83 years of hindsight.
@@Ugly_German_Truths or one in a neutral country.
@@justforever96 what matters is what you leave behind
How 'bout 2022 ;)
I may have been one of the last American soldiers to carry a Thompson in combat. In Viet Nam 1971 I left my Infantry platoon in the 1st Cav. Div. and was sent up north to Da Nang to the 196th Light Infantry Brigade and was assigned to Brigade HQ as the Asst. S-5 officer (Civil Affairs). We dealt with the relationships between the 196 LIB and the Vietnamese civilians. I spent a lot of time in the field in a jeep and an M-16 is too long to easily use in a vehicle and a M1911 isn't enough firepower. The office had a Thompson with the shoulder stock removed which was just about the right size to carry in a jeep. I used it several times to return fire when we were sniped at. I kept the 1st magazine filled with tracers because having tracers coming at you, even if they are just .45s, will make you duck or flinch a bit more and that is what I wanted, to distract the guy shooting at me while we evacuated the area as quickly as possible. I don't know where the office got the Thompson. I suspect that it may have been swapped for with some ARVNs or RF/PFs at some point. It wasn't a precision weapon with the shoulder stock gone but it served its purpose and I was able to control it pretty well, particularly hosing down a woodline. BTW, we had 4 30 round mags for it. 1 in the gun and 3 in a carrier.
Thanks for sharing. Do you remember which model it was?
No, I don't 47 years on. I just recall it as one of the WW2 versions with the horizontal forearm. We did not have any manuals for it and I tried to keep it as clean as possible without trying to strip it down. I was afraid to mess with it too much for fear of not being able to figure out how to get it back together.
To add a bit to my previous answer: It was one of the later models because it did not have a ribbed barrel or a Cutts compensator and did have the simple rear sight. (not that the sights were much of an issue without a stock).
Pretty interesting, I had no idea that anyone in Vietnam had one of these. But I can imagine that for what you were using it for, it was probably the best weapon for the job, and damn effective too. I am curious though, in Nam, how common was the M3? Were there a lot of those around or had they basically gone to the M16 entirely at that point?
I never saw an M-3 in Viet Nam but they may have been provided to Vietnamese forces along with other WW2 vintage weapons. Also, the M-3 stayed in US service as the personal weapon of crewmen of armored vehicles until the Gulf War. So, there may well have been M-3s in service in Viet Nam in units like the 3d Armored Cavalry Regiment.
Back in the late 80's and 90's I worked with a WWI vet who carried a Thompson in the South Pacific. His main use them them was interesting. He mentioned that the Japanese would ambush them from the trees so his job was to spray down the trees with the Thompson and see "what fruit would fall".
holy shit
The executors of the Ryan estate must've been kicking themselves, selling the company on the eve of the biggest conflict in history!
Didn't he die in 1928, and then they fought over the rights for 10 years before WW2? so there was an intervening decade?
And the guywho ended up buying it was a lucky SOB.
Well, to be fair, it came out of nowhere. Nobody could possibly have seen World War II coming... oh wait.
@@ZGryphon Not saying the signs weren't visible in the mid-30s, but it's probably much clearer to us in hindsight!
Speaking of european word for smg:s, ridiculously enough the Swedish word for it is kulsprutepistol, which roughly translates to 'bullet spraying pistol'.
That's kinda accurate and funny.
@@Laenthal
I always thought that Pulemyot meant machinegun or device or something like that.
In Spanish, it's called "Subfusil", which means, roughly translated, "sub-rifle" (the word "rifle" does exist in Spanish, and is mostly interchangeable with "fusil")
I think that for most continental Europe, "Pistolet-mitrailleur" or "Maschinenpistole" were the base from which theyr own word was derived. Like Polish "Pistolet maszynowy", which literaly means "machine pistol". But there are exceptions, like Croatian "Kratka strojnica" ("short machine rifle" in English), Serbian "Аутомат" (which relates to Russian more casual submachine gun designation, "Автомат", "Automatic" in English) or the most inaccurate one, Czech/Slovakian "Samopal", translating into English as "Self-firing gun" pretty much. It has mainly political and historical backround (for communistic government "assault rifle" sounded too imperialistic and aggressive, and Russian "Автомат" means anything "automatic" in Czech/Slovakian, not just machine gun), so designation "light" and "heavy" was used to separate something like SA 58 and vz.61 Scorpion. Than iron curtain fell and assault rifle is now perfectly alright.
Meanwhile, the ATF: "they're all machine guns, that double barrel shotgun is a machine gun"
This Thompson series is some of Ian’s best work, imo.
I own a WW2 Bridgeport 1928 Thompson and I absolutely love it. It’s a blast to shoot and a great investment.
When I was a kid (1950's) there were "war surplus" stores everywhere - even my small town in Kentucky. I used to prowl around just looking at the stuff. One day I found several boxes of beautiful snap on style Thompson butt stocks. I still remember that they were very nice quality - must have been made for the early model and never used. Sat in a warehouse somewhere for years. I wanted to buy one because they were so cheap even a kid could afford it but I really couldn't think of anything to do with it! The coolest thing I ever found was a huge barrel of things that looked like a toy to me but now I realize were a horrible weapon. They were "bomb shaped" about 2-3 inches long. lead body (Owner was selling them as fishing sinkers) pointed steel nose and sharp bladed fins. I now realize that these were flechettes made to be shoveled out or packed into a bomb casing and dropped over enemy personnel. falling at 120 MPH on a slight diagonal would have been like being hit by a rain of .50 cal. bullets. Terrifying.
The flechettes also drop a lot faster than 120... it's a common misconception that people have. Terminal velocity is a product of gravity and wind resistance. The human body falls around 120. A lead projectile with much higher density and much lower wind resistance falls much faster.
Rumor has it, Russia is using flechettes in Ukraine. Reportage was via NPR, so...
hearing Ian say "cash money" made my day
That was very cash money of him.
I love it when Gun Jesus lets us time travel a day ahead!
Actually 3 days, there is also the M1A1 and the shooting video.
haha and i love it when i see morons waste money just for posting a meaningless comment earlier
@@Kevin-hx2ky how can one be such an ass
Dirt McGurt "Gun Jesus" that's great!!! Much love Ian!! Amen!!!!
praise
4:20 that was very cash money of you France
I love your history of this wepon. My dad used one of these in ww2. although he said he never killed anyone. God rest his Soul.
I have an irrational love of the WWII Thompsons.
Yes so have I, in fact to the extent that it's along with the 1911 the best gun ever invented, because it could also be used as a rifle, all be it medium to low velocity, however if it hit you in the arm it would blow it off, yes I love the Thompson gun!
I preffer the m1921 modelbut every thompson is high tier
Scott Brooklyn even in the mid 90s the Thompson was still very popular on TV shows I watched in the 4th grade. Everything from cartoons, movies, comics, you name it. We watched reruns of shows from the 50s, 60s and 70s that drew from the previous generations like the roaring 20s all they way through WW2.
Please allow me to introduce to you then. . . The PPSH-41.
Dad said , it stayed in and with the jeep . It and ammo was to heavy for any long dismounted patrol . However , it was bad ass in a street fight . No real failures other than dirt from massive heavy use .
The developers of Call of Duty: WWII should have done their research before incorrectly calling the M1A1 in the game, the M1928.
Video game logic and historical accuracy isn't held to high standards.
All the guns in that game are incorrectly drawn. It's really annoying.
Chris Baker Call of Duty has always had some incorrect detail about the gun all the way back to call of duty 1.
@@TruthSeekerD it used to be
Sad when the very first game was far more accurate than any of the shit they're throwing out today
Just realised i felt bad for a company who lost money because no wars were being fought at the time
Firarms manufacturing has some wierd morals
@@davitdavid7165 A similar situation for all sorts of craftsmen of arms throughout history, I'm sure.
Like, there's probably some blacksmith in the 11th century who had a hard time making ends meet, then suddenly gets a lot of work and makes bank when some lord started a war with another!
That's life. John M Browning had similar issues as well. They played their part. Company's come and go all the time. Automobile Companies in the beginning were the same way. They had over 2000 companies when first started out. You see a pattern occur throughout history, and even now. Don't feel bad, embrace it, respect it, and understand that nothing is guaranteed in life (except Jesus Christ).
@@davitdavid7165 That's the human race my friend (questionable and weird morals), fools who think they know right from wrong, will always think they have authority to judge others. However the only one that has authority to judge everyone is Jesus Christ himself. He is our judge, and savior.
@real3wcitizen nah, as an atheist I have to disagree.
If anything this is just an example of the perverse incentive structures that could happen under capitalism. In this case the war industrial complex obviusly benefits from wars, so the solution is to make them public and heavily scrutinise their leadership to weed out corruption.
World War two: Thompson boogaloo
They were used to kill Nazis, not to play 'weekend warrior' with them.
The Thompson started my fascination with guns. In all of the Call of Duty games I played as a kid, the Thompson was always my favourite.
This series of videos on the Thompson was absolutely riveting. What a fascinating history of Auto Ordnance and the Thompson submachine gun. Very much appreciate the hands on demonstration of the differences between the various models, too. Thanks so much!
Years ago I read The Gun That Made the Twenties Roar. There was a diagram of a frame with 9 Thompsons mounted in it. The idea was to mount the frame in the belly of an airplane and use 50 round drums for feeding. At CAS altitudes of 100/300 feet the beaten zone was projected as about the size of a football field. I say projected because as far as I know, it was never formally tested.
Well, now I feel guilty for not supporting Ian on Patreon.
It's interesting to note that Great Britain made their final payment on the WW2 lend lease on December 31st 2006, 45.5 million pounds ($83 million US). The total debt was 21 billion by the end of WW2, well that explains why I pay so much tax....😀
This already starts in the Great War. The economy of all the warfaring european powers take a hit as they spend currency reserves and take loans to finance the war.
Now all your taxes go towards housing, feeding, and giving free money to all the immigrants from abroad being imported by the droves into Britain
You’re videos are ALWAYS thorough and interesting.
Great dialogue and visual.
Keep up the great work Ian and company.👍
These videos are utterly fascinating. I've only discovered forgotten weapons this week, but what genuinely compelling content.
The Thompson M1928A1 is what I remember distinctly from Medal of Honor (the first one) and Day of Defeat (first game). 100% iconic.
the one in dod i think i was a m1a1.
@@yelastava6417 Yeah, it was an M1 or M1A1.
Had a forward handguard heat shield. No vertical foregrip.
This is sertainly one of my favorite videos. The story and the backround is for some weird reason so appealing and interesting to me . The way he narrates it is also verry pleasing of course.
Absolutely outstanding video again. I’m now looking at my Thompsons and am learning their origins. Spot on, cheers Ian!
Lugging this gun around in WW2 and the ammo must have taken a lot of strength/endurance. I was really surprised how heavy one was unloaded.
Imagine it with a full, rattling, 50 round drum.
They also made a 100 round drum.
I have one of the 'parts kit' Lend Lease Thompsons that had allegedly been sent to the USSR with Sherman tanks and M1 Half Track vehicles, then stored unissued until the 1990s in Ukraine.
It lacks the original upper receiver (thus NFA legal) but came equipped with Lyman sight, finned barrel with Cutts, knurled bolt handle but smooth fire select and safe switches, two piece extractor, and non cross bolt stock.
The S/N (Savage) is 68,797 below the one shown in the video.
I have one also. Have it mocked up on an 80% receiver. I wish I would have bought 2 but that was back in the day. The parts kit for these was never cheap but nothing like trying to pick one up now. There is a guy at our gun show (MI) who travels back and forth to Russia, etc picking up what he can and bringing back what he can. He said there are still crates of unfired Thompsons that they store very well deep in caves where the climate doesn't change. Can't bring them back, can't sell them, so they will eventually be 8 cents a pound scrap. Breaks my heart. I guess while we were friendly at a distance with Russia before we entered the war, we weren't friendly enough to supply .45ACP ammo.
@@mrbcharrison The stories I've heard say that ammo was supplied, the Soviets simply were unimpressed with the Thompsons and the .45 ACP.
Under present circumstances it wouldn't surprise me if local Ukrainian citizenry put those old 'Tommys' to use.
Nice presentation of these Firearms Ian, what a great job, thanks
Thanks for making this video. Your knowledge, and history of this firearm is outstanding. You were able to convey the illustrations of the past without even incorporating photo stock of those times, and yet I was able to clearly see it in my head. You have a gift as a historian, and a storyteller. A lost art these days.
This is a great series, up there with your series on French rifles. Thanks Ian, I am really enjoying this!
Great review and history . Now ,I believe, Kahr owns Auto Ordinance and is still making a semi version.
i highly enjoy these series that cover in depth the history of a platform very informative
Three excellent videos back to back! Keep it up!
I'm really enjoying this Thompson series, thanks Ian.
I really like hearing about the history of these! Thanks Ian
Great video series Ian...would love more series like this of the development of iconic firearms
I strongly recommend you read “quarterd safe out here “ a remarkable wartime memoir from a soldier fighting in Burma during WW2.
He hated his Thompson. It was too heavy and rusted like buggery. At the first opportunity he discarded it in a river and armed himself with a lee Enfield. However this series is the most interesting and informative I have ever come across. I offer my congratulations.
Hard to believe anybody would discard a subgun for a bolt action rifle in jungle warfare.
Ian you linked an unreleased video in the latest Thompson video :)
Awesome series! Totally digging it.
Thank you Ian for the wonderful history of the Thompson.
Ian your videos have become more and more historically detailed. That is very much appreciated.
Loving the series Ian! Would be awesome if you finished up the series with a shooting video with the awesome slow-mo you have been doing lately.
As always, terrific video. Detailed, smart and accurate. Your passion for this genre is evident and really brings me in. Preach Gun Jesus and we will come.
Amazing & informative series on my fav, the Tommy. I missed out on buying one 40 years ago. It sat inside a red-felt musical instrument case as I remember it. The shop had it sitting on the floor behind its counter. I'm sure it was much cheaper back then.
Thompsons now go for $2450 (semi auto models) to $25k (1928 full auto models)
Fascinating!!! .. on the edge of my seat the whole video!!
Loving this series. Great vid as always. TkEZ»UK
Enjoying the series. I have a great affection for these guns because cool and effective.
Good times. Sounds like Morphy's has quite a batch this time. I know some of the history and differences, and i knew about Savage, but it's great to have all this detail. Especially side by side comparison. Great video as always. Thank you
In Spain we call this cathegory of weapons 'subfusíl'; my fav is the 1928A, with the compensator the Tommy is über pimp to me.
charles wipman cool! I want to have that version of tommy with the compensator in the new battlefield.
fusil in French is rifle. Guess it's the same in Spanish
So basically sub machine gun. Or subrifle (literally). In German it's Maschinenpistole (machine pistol). Machine gun (as you use it in the US as a legal term) usually always refers to actual machine guns (Maschinengewehre, literally machine rifle) such as LMGs, HMGs, SAWs etc.
haha i know i'm actually half Swedish xD (and half Swiss). My Swedish is a little bit suboptimal (i wasn't born in Sweden and i don't live there, well only for vacation xD) but i knew that one Lol. Swedish generally speaking has very funny words. Not as funny as Dutch but it's up there
SonsOfLorgar how hard is it to own guns in Sweden? Do you guys need a hunting license?
The Thompson is my favorite gun with the Browning BAR coming a close second!
You know the Devil's Brigade? The Canadians liked the Garand, and everyone liked the Thompson. But the Canadians begged to swap BAR for Bren guns. Not feasible, since the Brits didn't have any to spare, none were being made in .30/06, and command didn't want to complicate logistics with a requirement for .303. And rightly so. What about the Johnson, you say. The Johnson was the Stoner of it's day. Of course, upon arriving in Italy, the Force learned to love the MG 42.
Fascinating history for the 'typewriter'.
I can't wait for the next episode. Post ASAP. Thanks
Fascinating history I enjoy the design aspects and how he explains them...
yeyy two videos today! :)
The best channel on TH-cam and the coolest man in the universe.
God i love series and videos like these from you guys
Among a whole ton of guns - including homemade submachine guns - I got to shoot a later model Tommy which was one of many captured terrorist weapons in Northern Ireland. It was a really fun weapon to shoot and is probably my favourite of the many I got to use over the years. Very little recoil and very controllable in the right hands. This series Ian put together was a very good history of the gun.
To hell with Cable TV.!
One of the best educational videos ever. How in the world did you get your detailed knowledge about the evolution of this piece of machinery? (Lots of research surely) Infinite details like the knurled pattern on the safety switch being removed to save cost, a fastener being installed in the stock, the X in the serial number are all details that you really have to research to find - NICE JOB and THANK YOU!
Two years later, but... there are some excellent books published for collectors that contain a ridiculous amount of information. Ian has distilled it down brilliantly and focused on what most people will find most interesting.
Good video , Thanks for sharing .
This series is amazing.
Being from Bridgeport its so neat to learn more about my city.
thank u Ian...excelant videos....! Gerat job...!
Great History lesson and information! Thank you for sharing!👍🏾😀❤️🇺🇸
Thank you , Ian .
I live about 20 min from Bridgeport, Ct and it’s still possible to see your occasional machine gun or various other armament out on the streets of Bridgeport on any given night.
an iconic if anachronistic weapon, still much loved by me. the detailed history you provide makes me purr like a kitten.
The thudding noise at 15:17 is from the video that’s not the ghost in ur home. This is for the ones living alone and watching with a stereo sound system and heard that noise coming from the end of the dark hallway ..
Finally getting to the good stuff !
Loving these Thompson episodes.
Great series!
Thank you. Very interesting.
My father carried one in WWII 1930s criminals loved the Thompson and the BAR.
Great series, Ian. Very well done! Tommy guns rule!
the late production M1928A1 looked really interesting. The removal of the fins on the barrel makes it look a lot better.
Opinion.
Na the fins look way better.
Oddly enough, I was just listening to "Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner". Great song.
Bob Stinson Warren Zevon. Totally cool song.
Norway's greatest son.
Love this series so much Ian! You should do one about the M16 in Vietnam
Gun Jesus! I love you! Greetings from Switzerland
Kaziklu Bey Switzerland fan ! Yey !
at least you're a fan! i'll give you my Swiss passport for your US one ok?
Waaahhhh! I don't want to wait for this information! Thanks for your time and insight.
Man, what an interesting piece of history that gun is
Yrs ago I was privileged to fire a 1921 Thompson. Been in love with them ever since.
At one point, you refer to the finish being applied to sandblasted metal, although some viewers might not know that the surface you were showing at the time is clearly milled, with rough mill marks.
You can sand blast milled pieces though
@@SPRKH69 at 7:40 for example, you can clearly see roughly milled non-sandblasted surfaces. Sandblasting will remove these tool marks when done after milling. The large radiuses are what I am talking about: they are from the milling tool cutting from one side to another. This is apparent in all close shots, and there are no apparent sandblasting marks. Sandblasting was also relatively rare pre 1960s.
Edit: never mind. I did some searching, they evidently spared no expense and did some light sandblasting, which wouldn't remove tooling marks but would make the finish stick
Another excellent episode Ian, wasn't the removable stock done away with in the later 1928's also?
I love this model the most
Definitely one of my fantasy wish list toys. If someone gave me anyone of these I would say thankyou!
7:40
Well, the italian equivalent for submachinegun is "Mitraglietta" as opposed to "Mitragliatrice", mitraglietta literally means tiny machinegun.
Mitraljez
Now i know from where we got the term
My favorite version
Every time I view a Thompson SMG, images of Winston Churchill, J Edgar Hoover and the movie Kelly's Heroes come to mind. :)
Dont forget audie Murphy playing himself...note in the movie how he switches around from thompsons to carbines and garands throughout the movie and only bothers with the Tommy during close quarters assaults...this is *not* by accident in the movie, that's how these were often used by squad, platoon, and company commanders. Ditch the tommy to someone else in the squad until it's really needed up close.
Nice video Ian, now we need a CZ sa vz.58 video, or a FN 49 video, or a FMK 3 vid
Always wanted one!
Remember Vic Morrow as Sergeant Saunders carrying a Thompson in “Combat”!
I love that little bit of USMC history. I served in the Marines and yeah, it's obvious to me why those guys loved them.
Am I mistaken or is there a photo of Sir Winston Churchill carrying a Thompson ?
Yes, but the the one's you see are a bit faked up, what would be photoshopped these days. He was inspecting some defences in northern England during the war, and they snapped him next to the soldiers, holding one of their weapons. Then they 'photoshopped' the soldiers out of it and set him centre-shot - makes it a much more dramatic picture. The Germans took the same shot, 'photoshopped' it in a very similar way, and used it as a propaganda poster to make him out to be a gangster.
A few results from less than two seconds of internet search:
rarehistoricalphotos.com/winston-churchill-tommy-gun-1940/
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Winston_Churchill_fires_a_Thompson_submachine_gun_alongside_the_Allied_Supreme_Commander,_General_Dwight_D_Eisenhower,_during_an_inspection_of_US_invasion_forces,_March_1944._H36960.jpg
www.auto-ordnance.com/winston-churchill/
www.ebay.com/itm/Churchill-Thompson-Tommy-gun-Keep-Calm-and-Carry-On-color-photo-I10105a-/223052538330
ww2f.com/threads/churchills-tommy-gun-found.53930/
It's impressive that Auto Ordinance could was able to adapt to the change in demand that quickly.
I prefer the horizontal forend over the vertical grip
One could say the Thompsons are not FORGOTTEN weapons. They have a historic aura, some good and some not so good. Practically, a good generational weapon. For it's time, useful. Law enforcement really increased sales due to the need to arm against criminal use. It was a very practical weapon for war use and military use in less-than-declared-war use prior to WW2. I found it useful as a training weapon for automatic fire. The cyclic rate is low enough that you can learn while firing it to control the fire; sometimes harder to do with a higher rate of fire. The controls take time to learn to use. Thanks for the videos.
I always refer to the version without the compensator or fins as the A1. At the point they were building this, it was just about utility and economics at the cost of slightly reduced effectiveness.
Fascinating tale this gun. This gun is like the Lincoln Crown Vic of guns, a serious workhorse.
If it were possible, I would love to mix and match features from the different models.