The Iconic American WW2 Thompson: the M1A1
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While the US Army was satisfied with the Thompson as a fighting weapon in World War Two, it was most certainly not happy with the gun's exorbitant price tag. The Thompson was a very expensive gun, and the Army wanted to see that change. In March of 1942, engineers at the Savage factory submitted a simplified version for Army consideration, and it was accepted and adopted the very next month. Savage would transition from M1928A1 production to the new M1 pattern in June and July of 1942.
This new M1 Thompson had eliminated at last the unique and unnecessary Blish lock system in favor of a simple blowback action delayed only by bolt mass. In addition to greatly simplifying the production of bolt components, this also allowed the receiver internal shape to be much simplified. A further simplification would follow shortly, as the hammer and floating firing pin were replaced by a fixed firing pin milled into the bolt face in October of 1942 - this new type being designated the M1A1. Another 715,000 M1 and M1A1 Thompsons would be produced by Savage and Auto-Ordnance by February of 1944, when the Thompson was finally replaced by the yet cheaper M3 "Grease Gun".
This is the fourth in a 5-part series on the development of the Thompson...
Note: I refer to the M1A1 in this video as a transferrable gun; it is actually a pre-May dealer sample. Sorry!
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“The government said the drum mag is fine for the civilian market”… My, how times have changed.
Al Capone was technically a civilian, so you can see their point.
Same general timeframe they argued short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, and suppressors were justified to be heavily regulated because they "have no military application, and thus no place in the militia."
@@robertwilson8184 If that is truly the argument that was used to make SBRs, SBSs and suppressors part of the NFA, then it shocks me a little bit that none of these modern pro-gun groups who litigate against all of our modern, unconstitutional "gun control" have filed lawsuits to get those items removed from the NFA list IMMEDIATELY.
Because if the argument that GOT those items onto the NFA list was that they "had no military application and thus no place in the militia", then getting them OFF of the NFA list should be as simple as saying "every single one of those items has EXTENSIVE military applications today and therefore they should be removed immediately as 'the militia' should have easy access to them".
Short barreled shotguns may not be used extensively by the military, but short barreled rifles and suppressors are BOTH used EXTENSIVELY by our modern military.
@@johnnytyler5685 I absolutely concur with your sentiments. Unfortunately we have allowed nearly 100 years of precedence to be established by this point. It’s an uphill battle.
In my opinion, all we need is one phrase:
*Shall not be infringed.*
@@johnnytyler5685 Now they have changed their reasoning to why they want those guns gone. The philosophy of gun-controllers is that a militia should not exist, as they want to rely on the government for safety (like people did before the american evolution). You can argue that it is a stupid philosophy as much as you want and i would probably agree with you, but that is what they think. They are scared that short barreled rifles might be concealed easily, that full-auto weapons have too much destructive power for "a civilian" or that suppressors could let someone attack you without making noise (these people, with few exceptions usually base their gun knowledge from movies). I am afraid that talking about a militia is just going to make the gun-controllers put their fingers in the ears and scream. They do not want to listen.
"I'm sorry I don't have the rarest version of these guns on hand to show you something very slightly different than a previous version". That's alright Ian. We forgive you. Just don't let it happen again.
😂😂😂
Which is weird since he has at least 3 more behind him, and probably a few hundred more on hand. bad luck I guess.
@@LostShipMate The three behind him are almost certainly the ones used in the previous Thompson videos. He films several at a whack, not just one and go home. If you look at the last Thompson video, the middle Thompson is replaced by the one in this video, identifiable by the Kerr sling.
As I was watching I was like, "It's okay Ian, I believe you that this is almost exactly the same on the other one, you don't need to show me for me to believe you".
Cue the “never used” fireplace collection.
Ah, the days when the perfect gun for the civilian market is a 50 round sub machine gun originally called the Annihilator.
@chris younts Australian farmers dealing with alternating waves of emus and rabbits would appreciate that kind of firepower
Gun control but epic
The freedom the second amendment guarantees
those were simpler times
As it should be. Damn atf
At first I thought Ian said "drum magazines were fine for the Sicilian market." It turns out they agreed.
Every American service weapon ever:
"Nice. What shall we call it?"
*"M1."*
Mk1
More like every piece of gear and land vehicle.
In supply depot:
Soldier: Sarge I need ammo for M1s
Supply Sergeant: Which M1?
Soldier: All of it
"If you hit it, you can name it."
CRAAAACK!!! {home run}
"I call it the masturbater."
M1 for Americans because the Germans took all the cool names already
1940s
tank: M4A1
gun: M1A1
2000s
tank: M1A1
gun: M4A1
i love it when things work out like that.
Diez ALOT Illuminati confirmed
M1 was as a ton of things, guns, tanks, planes, mortars, helmets.
Cold War
Tank: M60
Gun: M60
I wonder how many gluttonous Muricans died because they put an m60 mg at some point instead of an m60 tank hahahahah
Americans may have banged my mom on call of duty but they couldn't invade any small sized country in the world.
When I was a kid, my grandad was a woodcarver. and one day, when we'd visited my grandparents in France, he and my dad put together a wooden M1A1 Thomson for me to play with after we had all gone as a family to see the beaches at Normandie, I spent many hours of my time in the countryside running around with it, eventually my grandad gave it away to a young French farmboy who lived across the way from them. Never saw it again after that, so I hope he got as much enjoyment out of it as I once did.
Thats so wholesome I cant🥺
I'm no gun guy, but I do like engineering, and history. Your channel is outstanding for both content and production. Thank you, very interesting series.
This is why am here, too.
same here. don‘t own (or plan to) a gun & never fired one, but i watch (almost) every video that comes out.
(for the engineering & history)
I enjoy guns but don't own any. I'm with you and am here mostly for the fascinating history and engineering on a lot of the ones Ian showcases.
I too watch for these reasons. Though I would love to own a gun my country's laws and lack of "gun culture" basically means that won't happen.
I love guns, but I only own a pistol. If I could, I'd own like a dozen firearms lol however, it wasn't video games or movies or my countries gun culture that got me interested in guns, it's the history and engineering that fascinates me. I especially love ww2 era semi auto rifles and bolt guns. If you ever get the chance to fire a gun, take it! Even if you're against owning guns
The three most wonderful days in my future I look most forward to:
- My wedding day
- The birth of my first child
- The day I purchase an M1A1 Thompson for myself
(Not necessarily in that order)
You're assuming you will have a child. Which means you're assuming you will get laid....... optimistic i say
same
Move M1A1 up to the front of that list. Once a wife and kid(s) enters the equation, toys fall a few notches on the list of priorities
@@MrJhonnyJackson Technically you don't need to get laid to get a kid, just saying :P
@@MrJhonnyJackson Well, since I'm getting married in 20 days now, I'd assume so.
Hi Ian. I'd just like to say that I really enjoyed the series about the Thompson sub guns. Many years ago an old ex-soldier regaled a bunch of us with tales of the Thompson that he carried in to action while he served with the Royal Tank Corp. Johnny alway said that he loved the Thompson for its accuracy on single shot, its hard hitting bullet and its relibability. He told us once that the only reason he didn't end up either dead or a POW was because he was issued with a Thompson so that when the tank was hit and the crew bailed out and took cover he was able, along with his mates, to keep the enemy at bay until they were relieved. Thanks again for the interesting series.
The M1A1 Thompson has always been my dream gun. There is just something about it, just absolutely beautiful....
Same here, been in love with the Thompson since I was a kid.
The minimalism of it really does it eh?
Weapons in and of themselves are not meant to look good. Which is why my favourite aircraft is the A-10C and my favourite tank is the M4A3E8. Theyre ugly but they fucking excel at what they were designed for.
@@Zoddom couldn't agree more. I agree with you on the M4A3E8 being the most beautiful battle tank, but my favorite aircraft is the Hawker Typhoon. Not the most beautiful but it sure as hell was an awesome ground attack aircraft.
My brother still has the "replica" Thompson he bought with lawn-mowing money in the 70s.
The grip on a Thompson is so weirdly good. Perfect palm swell and angle for such an expedient version.
the only downside to watching future videos today is that I won't have new Forgotten Weapons content tomorrow :'(
Time travel!?!
@@alexanderm3504 Patreon supporters get early access to videos
You could watch 'Remembered Weapons' 😉
Ninjava true, but that’s not how I found it. When the first in the series went live, there was a link to the second at the end of it, and from there to the third, and so on.
Jessi...just use the transport in the Enterprise.
ahah, some engineer sure got his/her ego checked when they removed the lock and it functioned just fine.
That would be mister Blish, though he might have had his ego already whacked by the failure of the Thompson Autorifle, which also utilized the "Blish principal" in its "locking system". In reality it functioned as a glorified delayed blowback in a full power rifle round. Issues followed, quite unsurprisingly.
Mr. Blish originally developed the lock for naval artillery. I seem to have read somewhere that it actually worked there. Being an early application of static friction or stiction. However, the pressures and dwell times are substantially higher in guns with cailbers in inches rather than fractions of an inch.
@@chuckaddison5134 The problem is that the Blish prinsiple isn't a thing. There is friction alright, but it's not created in the way the Blish Prinsiple discribes it :)
Problem is, you can't just remove the lock, the gun as orginally designed and made won't function without it.
@@johnkelinske1449 pretty sure it would work, but it would have a higher ROF just like the m1 model. the blish "lock" was just delaying the action, it wasnt doing anything critical to the operation of the gun
In my humble opinion, the thompson is the most beautiful smg ever made.
Savage ruined the beautiful design. They had to, of course.
My choice would be the mp-34
PPSH-41?
@@kitemanmusic I think that it looks neater.
Alongside with the suomi m31 imo
"The stock is permanently screwed." Same...
Ian, you did a fantastic job of detailing the differences between the different Thompsons and telling it’s evolution. It will be wonderful to see all of them shot back to back and get your impressions of the experience.
For anyone that is curious, the current production semi-auto guns are internally more or less based off of the M1 type bolt with a really long separate firing pin/striker added. It and it's spring do take the place of the single central recoil spring, so two more recoil springs are added AR-18 style to what would be the buffer plate in the gun shown here. It's not a great system for accurate shooting, with a lock time similar to a flintlock rifle (well, at least a flintlock on a good day when the pan lights right away), but that's not really the point of them anyway. Another interesting note about them is that the bolt is the same for either the M1A1-lookalike variant or the 1928-lookalike variant. The bolt has two perpendicular holes in it to accept either a side or top mounted bolt handle, of course which one it uses is determined by the receiver type, but it's kind of a neat simplification that results in interchangeability.
Testing for Thompson: “yep, alright, looks good.”
Testing for modern infantry weapons: “Washington, we need another 10 years and $10billion…”
Soldiers in deployment: Brings their own M4...
Thankyou Ian. Great vid.😅
By still having the bolt hold-open on the M1A1, it invalidates all of its corresponding reloading animations in video games.
well the dev need to make some(many) change so the game would be balance...
most common that i found on older fps game, fn p90 have same damage as 9mm smg, slow reloading speed and slow rate of fire compare to other 9mm smg like hk mp5a series.
in reality p90 have more rate of fire and more power on the bullet than 9mm
Day of Infamy took that into account :)
@William Halter What if you're in a vehicle all day? It wasn't meant for people who could just carry a rifle.
When FN brought out the P90s for us to play with back in 1990, they pitched them as a replacement for the M9s gate guards were packing. Submachineguns were already being phased out. If vehicle crews absolutely had to have a compact weapon, M231s were readily available.
@William Halter I had no idea the armor they used could stop 7.62 NATO. I thought it was mostly for shrapnel and lower power rounds.
This was my dad's WW2 issue weapon. He used to carry a German MP40- MP42 in n Africa Italy as was shorter with stock folded. He used to clamber in & out of Canadian desert rats Sherman's grants often as was REME regiment. Officers were ok as long as you carried something effective he said plus he was Staff sergeant in no time.
Nice video, very in-depth. Such a good looking gun
I managed to pick up a M1A1 a few years ago. It has the A1 hand stamp and low serial number.
What sold me on it was the British broad arrow stamp on the receiver. Also has re-mounted British sling swivels for British/Commonwealth use.
Ian i really love these series of videos on a model development, such as the berthiers, the winchester lever action development and now the thompsons. I have always tried reading about the difference in each model, but its always so confusing and not simple and straight forward like you show us. Thank you, thank you so much.
The felt buffer pad delete would also increase the ROF since the felt absorbs some of the energy in the bolt while the rubber buffer is more springy and makes the bolt retain more of the energy when it bounces against the back of the receiver.
The felt oiler pads were of dubious value overall. With the Blish lock they may have had some function, but post 28A1, they were useless.
The loss of the closure actuated firing pin though..The move to a fixed firing pin surely saved time and cost, but it was definitely a step down in safety.
They are not oiler pads. They are recoil absorption pads.
On either side of the bolt on the 28A1 and earlier?
You'd better check a manual. Those are oiler pads.
I'm curious if that hammer assembly worked as an accelerator. You've got a lever multiplying the force from the bolt slamming forward, whereas the fixed pin has no multiplier and is scrubbing more energy from the bolt as it hits the primer.
We can apply more kinetic energy with a lever in the action. Say the hammer only multiplies the force by 1.3 times, which is doable in that kind of space, that'd make a good bit of sense all things considered.
Base fire rate without the hammer: ~700 rpm
With hammer: ~900 rpm
700*1.3=910 rpm
It might be slightly higher on the multiplier but the frictional losses from the mechanism itself are probably decently high I'd think.
Unlikely, as the triangular "hammer" had to both pivot, and work against a spring loaded firing pin.
You could not expect any primer kick either, as U.S. .45 ACP of the day was securely crimped.
The Army really loved their M1 designation.
I'm always surprised with each episode on how Ian can memorize all this history on every single gun.. Awesome work!
Went to an older guys house to do some cable work, we started talking about the military, turns out he was a WWII vet, and pulled a box from under his bed and inside was a Tommy Gun, beautiful weapon!
The precursor to the M41A pulse rifle in all its glory.
@@exploderish nah... it's like a weird slavic version of the mp40. I'm not saying it's a bad smg, it's just ugly as hell lol function over looks though I guess
@@cliftonjames785 I think he may have been referring to the the USCM M56 Smartgun from Aliens.
10mm explosive tip, standard light armor piercing ammo. Might have the movie a few times and I love the m41a Semper Fi
@Sarge Thebandit01 Lotsa people love the M41A! Its my fav scifi gun and I tend to use mods that bring it with accurate sound files and everything into the games I dabble in... All cause I watched the Alien franchise as a kid and fell in love with that sound... (I like the Smartgun too, M56?)
@@XanderTuron That was so much fun to use on Colonial Marines! Yes ya lil inky skinned freaks go ahead and crawl all over the place cause my rounds are still gonna find ya!
I always thought the rate of fire went down a bit when they went to blowback. Guess not. Fantastic series. Excellent job explaining the differences and changes. I have long been a Thompson fan. Great to see them all together for more thorough explanation. Great video as always. Thank you
Was so pumped when you said there was going to be a whole series of vids dedicated to the Thompson.
I would have to call that a successful series bud. You have fulfilled my quest for knowledge on these wonderful machines!
Keep up the great work.
Wow. I am actually very impressed by the amount of simplification that went into this one!
Anyone else noticed that the safety selector switch has visible wear, whereas the full auto / single shot selector looks almost unused? It's unsurprising, but still interesting.
Not shocking. Any time a situation called for accurate single shot fire, it was likely better handled by someone with a M1 Carbine, or Garand
@@Ironman1o1 Yup, don't want the full boogy guys wasting their valuable ammunition
Unsurprising, but still interesting. I hear you. Yes. You are not alone. Or should that be, "No, you are not alone?" lol
With the lower rate of fire and the fact it’s a close range weapon I’m sure the soldiers and Marines were able to develop trigger control that allows them to get off either a single round or two shot burst.
The only thing I can think of with the hammer increasing the rate of fire is that, when the bolt slams closed and actuates the hammer, the action of the firing pin being shoved forward is applying an equivalent force backwards on the bolt, making it open just a little bit earlier. That is, it's kind of acting like an accelerator lever, simulating a sort-of intentional bolt bounce.
Fascinating series, really enlightening about the Thompson, certainly a lot of things that i didn't know. Great job Ian.
Great series, Ian! Good info on the different Thompson SMGs.
This Thomson series is so interesting. Would love more like this but few guns can justify a 4 part series.
Hey Ian, for your next Forgotten Weapons t-shirt perhaps consider the Blish Principle/Lock patent. 😄👍🏻
That's a cool idea actualy
Lone Ranger I agree! ☝️ “forgotten nonsense “ 😂
really great video series! loved your historical review of the development and evolution!
Hi Ian. I've really enjoyed this Thompson series - thank you.
I am also extremely impressed at the way you deliver ALL your videos, in that you really seem to 'know your stuff'. Meaning, that you don't have to check with cue cards or similar, it's all knowledge that is 'in there' - presumably because of your deep rooted interest in firearms.
Regards Mark in the UK
I've personally looked at the rarest Thompson. Savage Aluminum receiver prototype Thompson. Ian needs to do that video! Only 3 in existence I'm told.
The wood is so beautiful. I love the dark stain. I'd hate to be on the other end of that gun.
Great Series! Learned a lot! Thanks Ian! Keep up the great videos. I appreciate it. Cheers man!
Fantastic series of videos and content as always Ian, thanks for sharing.
The evolution of series are my favorites.
Double time travel today!
Dirt McGurt hell yeah my man
How
So the Philadelphia Experiment was real!?
All hail the gun JESUS 🤗 let us embrace his teaching 🤗
Well done Ian ...a very informative series ...looking forward to the shoot
Fascinating series, love it when you do these the L85/86 was another series I enjoyed
I have a deactivated M1 Thompson here in the UK Ian, my one is a true M1 not an a1, 173949, was told mine was on a Russian lend lease contract, mint unused condition lol, but all welded up heavy paper weight sadly ):
Leave Britain now if you enjoy having rights.
A neat piece of history regardless. You ever considered using the serial number to look more into the history of the batch that it came out of?
Squid Master reactivating guns in the UK is almost impossible when done to the UK standard and also highly illegal.
@@DerLoladin thats correct inposs to bring it back plus very much against the law. Mines 1942 dated all i no.
@@PERK-30 if i could leave now i would. Dream would be working for colt or somthing buiding firearms.
I'm coming off binging The Man in the High Castle by binging Ian's Thompson series. This is great.
I'm about midway through season three, myself. And heavily lookin' forward to finishing it later!
Without spoiling anything, how is the rest of the season?
This series was fantastic. Thanks for doing this.
Educational and riveting as always.
I love your immense knowledge and just spending hours getting lost in education by you.
“Pass me the m1a1”
“Which one the bazooka the rifle or smg?”
Don't forget the M1A1 paratrooper carbine.
@@bonedoctor1 or the Abrams mbt
Combat the TV show is on it
Ahh, imagine how in the future, on October 10th or so, we will reminisce about this video.
Its been nearly 2 years and its my first time watching this haha. Weird seeing comments like this coz you will reminisce bit I will be awed
Thanks for making this mini series Ian.
Excellent series. All of your videos are excellent. The history and mechanical explanations are top notch. You should have a show on the history or discovery channel.
Even 3 years later, i still love this series. Very, VERY informative!
It's interesting how much changed in the "iconic" Thompson gun over the ~30 years it was in the limelight. The only thing that really remained intact was the external shape of the receiver and its caliber, with everything else being changed: the Annihilator had no stock, the later models did, the finned barrels were removed on the M1928A1 and the front grip, the sights and controls changed, then finally with the M1 and M1A1 you completely change out the internals and the magazine well to no longer take drums.
By the end of it all, the WW2 Thompson is farther from the 1919 model than the MP40 and Sten guns are to one-another. Besides the overall form factor, it's actually a completely different gun, sort of the way that the Czech vz. 58 looks somewhat like an AK but isn't at all.
Fantastic series, well done Ian!!
Once again great videos, well spent time watching it. Thanks a lot.
Ian, is the neck on the bolt more solid than with the fixed firing pin? Could that increase the weight enough to help in lowering the cyclic rate? Just a thought.
Ian, would you like to get 3 more people with you and do some gangster-like shooting of an old rusty car, for example, firing all 4 Thompsons at the same time?
With hats, coats and cigars
White walled tyres optional
A most interesting series. Tonnes of information. Thank you, cheers
Thanks for the great Thompson videos! Learned A lot.
This is a very interesting series, thank you. re: The increased rate of fire of the earlier hammer models. It appears that there's about a 1:2 lever with the hammer mechanism, meaning the distance from the pivot to the firing pin is twice the distance of the pivot to where the bump hits. This would move the firing pin forward at twice the speed of the receiver block (it would also reduce the amount of force by half....but this and other factors probably don't matter). This would of course only affect the timing of the last bit of travel of the receiver.
The Blish Patent. Dissimilar metals. I've never heard it expressed as reducing the coefficient of friction. I think you said that this was not correct. Where I learned about this is when I put a motor on a steel Acme threaded rod (to use it as a lead screw) to drive a steel nut to move an easel up and down. It would randomly seize up. No amount or type of lubricant made any difference. Peter Carlson (he guy who made all those big balloon dogs for Jeff Koons) suggested I replace the steel nut with a bronze nut. There's something about the atomic structure of the elements that causes this. But if you simply used a different metal the atomic structure could never line up and so it would never seize. Lubrication at this point didn't matter.
Did you mention gangsters use of the Thompson? I think there were two notable uses, that of course appear in dozens of movies (so I could have my reading of history completely distorted by the movies I've seen). The St Valentine's Day Massacre and a notorious very public drive-by, or drive-up (or series of these) when Al Capone's gang was consolidating bootleg territories also in Chicago. I can see why the movies loved the Thompson, it made a lot of noise, you could use live ammo to shoot up a store front, prop car and the results would show up well on film. Also the face of the movie star everybody came to see wasn't tucked down cheek against a rifle stock.
Normally I’m a guy that like the original version of anything, but this is definitely my favourite Thompson 👍
The condition of this piece is amazing!
Its so beautiful I want to cry
This has been awesome series! Thank you sir
I wonder why they didn't reduce the thickness of the walls of the upper receiver in the M1 to reduce weight. Since it doesnt need the grooves cut in to it any more it didnt need to be thick enough to still have enough metal to stay intact with the grooves...
Reducing the thickness of the receiver would require pretty extensive testing to it everything attached to it. The receiver is the frame of the gun, and compatibility of parts may be affected. The whole gun may require new tooling to be built. All that could require production of new Thompsons to be stopped as they switch over and the military certainly wouldn't want that.
Regardless of how much they reduce the weight, it would always weigh more and be more expensive than the M3's stamped design.
Wonder if the primer ignition rates were different with the fixed vs floating firing pin?
Depth of dent or something?
I'm wondering if maybe it took a little time for the casing to unstick itself from the fixed firing pin on ejection. Seems kinda far fetched though.
FINALLY THE VIDEO IVE ALWAYS BEEN WAITING FOR THANKS IAN!!!!
You are literally keeping the flame alive for all us gun nerds! Long may your channel bring us goosebumps on a daily basis!!!
Uploaded on the 17th of September hehe somebody has been uploading videos to yt while keeping them private
How deep does this rabbit hole go?!
Apparently I'm going to have to get used to the fact that EVERY one of this guy's videos are AWESOME! Yet another excellent presentation by an excellent PRESENTER!
This is a great series. Thanks for the knowledge.
"I believe he was a SAVAGE inspector" 7:30
7:35 "George E. Goll, I believe he was a .... SAVAGE inspector." *cue airhorn*
Loved the series would be cool to see more like this when possible
Good video Ian.
I've wanted a Thompson since I watched "Chip Saunders" use one in "Combat" the long running TV series in the 60's. I was finally able to achieve that dream when I purchased one a few weeks ago...sort of. This one is made my Uramex, and shoots BB's, but I figure it's about as close as I'll ever come to the real thing.
Interesting that the M1 and A1 ROF change between them. I can't think of a reason there should be that much of a difference between them.
Possibly the force of firing acting on the firing pin, pushing back on the hammer causing it to act as a sort of bolt accelerator. Obviously just a wild guess.
Actually you might have some thing there.
I think the Blish lock is acting as a lever delayed blowback, it's forcing that heavy block on the actuator to move to the rear of the bolt faster in the same way a lever-delayed blowback gun works. 13:07, compare to this picture of a lever delayed gun 1.bp.blogspot.com/-Kwi5ArzCa8k/UbLPzbu3EnI/AAAAAAAABpw/NkMOcLqTsMU/s400/lever-delayed-action-animation.gif
My guess would be that with the floating firing pin, as soon as the lever is tripped, the round is fired. Whereas with the fixed firing pin the casing has to get further into the chamber gradually increasing friction and bleeding velocity from the bolt. When the force exerted on the primer is finally big enough to fire the round, the bolt will have notably slowed down and travelled a bit longer.
Just speculation here too but that to me sounds most plausible.
Actually, many guns using a fixed firing pin crush the primer enough to fire the cartridge before it's fully chambered. Having to overcome the last of the forward inertia before rearward travel can begin gives an effect similar to having a heavier bolt.
Patty Hearst will hear the burst ….. tomorrow
Roland would be proud.
I love that Warren Zevon songs are turning into memes now.
@@geegaw14 van Owen will take care of that.
This has been an excellent series...i look forward to the range!
This is awesome video series. Thank you. 🙏
Does the hammer on the M1 bolt act as an accelerator driving the firing pin forward at a faster velocity than the bolt?
That might explain the faster rate of fire of the M1 over the M1A1.
It would just continue with its inertia. The overall effect would be to delay the fire rate a tiny amount as the bolt closes but there is a delay for the firing pin to continue forward with the same inertia.
But there is a possibility the bolt is bouncing open at the exact moment the cartridge fires which may result in the fire rate increasing. This all depends on how good the ammunition is, whether there will be even the tiniest amount of delay between the primer strike and the powder fully igniting.
Here before it gets public
Thanks Ian. Interesting series. When I was young I qualified with an M-3a1. In 1976. Always wanted to fire a Thompson.
Great series, thank you. My favorites are the Colt production guns.
The M1 Thompson was “too expensive” at $43 each? I’m curious...how much did the Garand cost?
$85 dollars per unit from Springfield Armory and $83 from Winchester. That's what the price given to US military in 1940. In 1945 the price dropped to $31 because the time and labor needed was cut in half.
The problem with the Thompson was that it took more time to machine the receiver and it wasn't seen as such a necessary weapon compared to rifles and machine guns. Once the M3 Grease gun started being made in large numbers the production of Thompsons stopped altogether.
Not only was it expensive, it weighed as much as the M1 Garand.
The Thompson was seriously outdated by the time WWII came around, even the "updated" versions. Shoot all the WWII SMGs in the same day and the Thompson will be the one that disappoints.
My guess is the rate of fire dropped slightly for the M1A1 vs M1 because the fixed A1 firing pin was pre-detonating the cartridge just slightly before the bolt had fully bottomed out, so the detonating round was offsetting some of the residual forward momentum of the bolt, which knocked rate of fire down just a hair. Whereas with the M1 and earlier guns, the firing pin doesn't fire a round until the bolt is fully bottomed out on the receiver. If I recall there are some machine gun designs that operate on this advanced detonation principle where the round is intentionally detonated while the bolt is still moving forward, as it offsets recoil somewhat... or maybe I just need to drink more coffee this morning
the Oerlikon 20mm when not tuned up properly can have an out of battery detonation, bless the soul of the operator with a quick recovery
Advanced Primer Ignition. I think it was mostly on german WW2 aircraft cannons, if I remember correctly MG 151 and MK 108.
I think you're right, the bolt on M1 series could enclose the bullet better after which the pin triggered the detonation of the bullet, which actually made the bullet and the bolt retraction slightly faster (would be nice to test it nowadays with high-speed sensors), compensating for the delay of the firing pin activation system. In comparison, the fixed pin on M1A1 would detonate the bullet just before it's movement course ended, doing exactly what you said. The micro-cavity made between the bullet and the bolt would actually delay the recoil enough to make the fire rate difference of 200 rounds/minute less than M1 series. In the same time, there should be a slight difference between accuracy patterns as well and I wonder if that was observed on the guns.
An outstanding series! Well done.
That was a great series 👍🏽 thank you!!
For those who dont know how to see the todays video yesterday just support him on patreon and Marty Mcfly and the Doc will help you
Great Scott!!!
Greetings from yerterday!
That simplified disassembly makes me appreciate the pps 43 a lot more!
Very interesting series, expertly presented. Very enjoyable!
neat. links live before video published.
Look at the post date; Ian clearly produces, posts, and plans his videos WELL ahead of time!
Locutus494 good for the folks who pay attention to the end card.
so this is how a hacker feels.....
Not forgotten by this old man ... Incredible machines. I'd love to own one ...
Very cool series. Thank you.