Daytona USA on the SEGA Saturn - You’ve Been Lied To.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มี.ค. 2024
- In this video, James “The SEGAHolic” tells you why many Saturn fans young and old love the original port of Daytona USA.
James also addresses the now common narrative, that Daytona USA was poorly received and heavily criticised at launch, being put in the shade by Ridge Racer by everyone who reviewed it.
Buckle up, and we’ll see YOU on the SEGA side. - เกม
My first exposure to the game was when my dad bought me a Saturn strategy guide that included Daytona, Panzer Dragoon and Clockwork Knight, even though we didn't have a Saturn or the games. Of course, I later got all of them, bless his intentions, and I still have it.
In the states there was a Christmas promo in '96 where if you bought a Saturn, you'd get 3 free games: Daytona, VF2 and Virtua Cop. I hadn't played the arcade original at the time, but I played the hell out of Daytona and despite its imperfections, I just loved it for its atmosphere, track design and the soundtrack. Sure, I played the heck out of Circuit Edition and Sega Rally, but those memories racing, exploring the tracks and listening to the music in my portable CD player are things I'll never forget. Glad to know I'm not the only one who loved this port.
You must be talking about that Kan Zen Publishing book - I had it and it was an incredible source of information in a time when the Internet was still getting off the ground. Not only did it have comprehensive strategies for Daytona, but it told us the names of characters in Panzer Dragoon and Clockwork Knight that weren't in the manual. The content was almost certainly translated from Japanese sources.
And it's strange that I could never find anything else from that publisher.
Dayytonnnaaaa……
@@demgreens Yep, that's the one. A long time ago I came across scans of the official Japanese Daytona Saturn guide, and it's pretty much the exact same thing translated into English; the graphics are the same and everything. Except the Japanese guide had a paper cut-out of the Hornet you could make. Still wish I had a mini Hornet car of some sort.
For what it's worth, even though it says "Kan Zen Strategy Guide Series" on the front, the back of the magazine mentions "Futabasha Publishers Ltd." at the top, which still exists today, except they're known for publishing men's magazines and manga in Japan. A brief look online doesn't mention anything about games or strategy guides, curiously enough.
When I got this for the Saturn, I'd never even seen the arcade version, so I didn't have that as a point of comparison. It was the first game i ever played on Saturn and the jump from the Mega Drive experience was massive, noone could tell me otherwise that Daytona was a poor game if they tried. Doing 40-lap 777 Speedway runs were a joy.
Endurance mode FTW for sure, I’ve done it tons of times.
As someone who was too young to remember this, I greatly appreciate the effort you made on making this video James. This was the actual reception that Daytona USA had in respect to that time, and there has been alot of personal bias against the game over the years, which highlight it as a failure. If you go back, how many games on consumer devices were producing 3D at a stable 30fps at that time? I’m certain it was only Ridge Racer. The problem is people compared them for the wrong reasons. Daytona USA is a much harder game to translate. You can have upto 40 cars on track, all with dynamic levels of a.i, you also a have a physics model that can tell apart terrain, a crash model, bounding boxes for all the models/objects and car handling physics that were real time and not in rails. To operate this at a smooth 20fps was impressive and there was nothing else like it on the consumer market. They even made use of functions like render to texture on the certain surfaces (windows) and good optimisations for LOD. It’s crazy to think they had 6 months or less on the project. If they continued on, we probably would have seen a better clipping/discard algorithm and removal of the boarders. In the end, it was a good deal and I can’t thank you enough for clearing this up!
hi I'm just popping' in
Don’t forget endurance mode and reverse tracks, and Saturn mode cars with different handling too. A perfect racer that is only equaled by its pc version.
So true. Still about render to texture. Saturn did not have such a feature. I think you confuse the windows basic UV mapping Feature. Which actually was the same in the arcade. Just a tileable cloud texture that you scroll the UV coordinates for. Works great.
@@litjellyfish I’m certain there’s no notion of UV on the Saturn, everything drawn is an independent sprite (texture). I thought Saturn could be combining a background layer in VDP2 to render 2 textures in a quad. It’s not really a standard render to texture per se 😅 Granted you can opt to do it in software, whether Daytona USA on Saturn is doing that is something I would like to know. Anyways, if I got anything wrong, I always appreciate any information to be corrected 😃
@@ahkmal7153 ah ok. I just used UV as most would understand it. So yes maybe that is what you meant with render to texture. I thought you spoke about render the framebuffer to a texture.
So yeah they most likely made a software scroll of the clouds which then was copied to the texture buffer that the quad is using to render the moving clouds.
I've got got the two Daytona Saturn games and the Dreamcast version too. Seeing games like Daytona as a kid was mind blowing when moving away from the 2D world of the Mega Drive. Tomb Raider 1 on the Saturn really hit me hard though. Out of all the Sega consoles I owned, then and now as an adult, the Saturn will always be my favorite. I personally didn't know a single person who was talking about pop in, or FPS or refresh rate back then. The tech was new in home consoles and we were all moving away from 2D sprite based games in that wonderful period of time.
finally someone who understands the impact of seeing daytona on the saturn in 1995 taking into account of what we would normally get ie starfox, virtua racing md.
It’s the best and it has never been equaled, not even by ridge racer.
I bought a Sega Saturn on launch day... nothing prepared me for being able to play Daytona USA and Virtua Fighter at home. Yes, a few months later I also bought a Playstation on launch and it was amazing as well, but the jump from Genesis/SNES/Jaguar to Sega Saturn was so huge, no other launch blew me away the way the Saturn launch did.
You’re right this was the biggest generational jump it was a total shock, today the graphics are refined but all the elements where introduced back then and the stuff that did make it in 2D to the 32 bit consoles was really close to perfect. As a Sega fan I’m still jealous of Japan to this day (the only market that truly got the Saturn experience)
Why someone hasn't done a USA directors cut in the community yet is beyond me. It would be truly fantastic.
Other than us die hard it’s universally hated. It was an incredible achievement considering the tight schedule before Xmas the team had to make.
@RobsonRoverRepair
This 👆🏼💯.
Like someone did with Doom on the 32X.
I just found your channel, being a huge sega fan (of their arcades, saturn and Dreamcast in particular) your channel is like finding a hidden gem - i find your content to be far better than the competitions. Please keep it up.
The technological feats that the teams from Sega and Namco were able to do with their arcade ports like Daytona USA, Tekken 3 and Virtua Fighter 2 need to be talked about more in the history of the industry because its absolutely incredible what the programmers and developers were able to accomplish in porting these high end games and making them look almost arcade perfect.
Hey Battle Arena Toshinden 2 was a 1 to 1 arcade port 😂
@@budgiecat9039 I always mention the Toshinden series. I'm like... The playstation launched with it in the big box... ridge racer too. PS5 should have done them again. Hence why this Gen is Meh. Coulda started off with that magic again.
“Almost arcade perfect”? The Saturn port of Daytona has shit graphics, laughable frame rate, it’s nothing like the arcade game at all. I’d go as far to say that it’s borderline unplayable.
It’s also got horrible pop in as well as those things but it has never been equaled and it’s fos of 20 is constant no matter how many cars are on screen and it’s endurance mode is incredibly awesome. It’s as close to the arcade as a home console gets.
@@ironhell813 not really since PS3/360 version exists as well as you can play it on PS4/PS5/Series X through one of the newer Yakuza games
Saturn Daytona is simply one of the best racing games of the 32/64bit generation, even though i had purchased Sega Rally before i got my copy of Daytona, it was still very impressive, to have Daytona running in my bedroom, let me tell you, all my friends who hadn't upgraded to 32bit were certainly envious enough, they certainly weren't complaining about pop up and frame rate!
The media propaganda attempted to "condition" everyone to look for any "fault/s" possible within Saturn games.
The media agenda was to get Saturn owners to ignore and/or forget how much fun they were having.
I saw the first time on a 33" tv in 1995, was awesome. For me 3d was something like hard drivin', flat polygons, no lighting. And saw this on a console, amazing!. Textures, lighting, full of objects, cd quality music. C'mon, ridge racer was a good racing game. But daytona is another level. Long and incredible courses, with a lot of elements. Like a rollercoaster, with elevations, borderline curves. And on crt tv looks really good, the sound is incredible too. And works with digital pads like no other racing game, reaaally good.
I had a saturn in the day and my go to was the first need for speed. The driving physics was amazing
Definitely, and the you could use any steering wheel you’d like with the sega pc port which was identical!
Need for Speed is odd for me, the Saturn version is similar to the PC and 3DO versions, just with more polish than the 3DO version, but visually, the PlayStation version is quite different. Texture-wise, physics-wise and overall presentation. (Not in a bad way mind you) But Saturn is the one I replay most, it feels different to my PlayStation version and in the best way possible.
the thing about the first port is it nailed the gameplay of the arcade game, even though the re-releases had better graphics they were made on a different engine and didn't feel the same.
Main reason it’ll never be replaced in my heart. Pc version was exactly the same.
My first Saturn game was Championship Circuit Edition and I loved and still love that game to this day. Mags used to say how much better the original Daytona USA port was, however, so, when I finally found a video store that rented Saturn games, I rented the original port and fell in love with it. The sheer playability and infectious nature of the gameplay and soundtrack kept me coming back time and again to beat my lap and track records.
Thank you for continuing to disprove the lies about the Saturn.
Original beats the new one hands down every time, glad after decades others have appreciated this port.
The Japanese version of Championship Circuit Edition is supposed to be better than the version the West got apparently, I'm not sure how true that is though.
@@ulysses2162 yes, it's a more complete version of the game and the cars handle closer to the coin-op but they still handle differently from the original game.
Absolutely loving your output mate, the Segaguys podcast has become a staple for me, and I only recently jumped on the Sega train after a lifetime of somehow missing their consoles and games. Just wanted to say keep up the amazing work. And how on earth are you finding teletext posts from 1995?!
The arcade version was one of my favourites and having it on the Saturn was an absolute joy. I loved it. Everyone that played it when they came over thought it was great. Interesting that you brought up Stunt Car Racer on the Amiga. It was one of my top favourite games to play on my Amiga 500. It's mind blowing to think of how it ran on a 7 MHz system and fit on a single floppy disc.
Great video! I love the Sega Saturn! I love Daytona on the Saturn! It played amazing, and it was just amazing to have it on a home console. I got the US Saturn around launch, and absolutely loved it. I remember loving Daytona in the arcade as well. To be able to play it at home was just incredible. Heck, I even loved Virtua Racing on the Genesis. It (Daytona USA on Saturn) sorely needed multiplayer though!
Excellent video. Shoutouts to Digitiser. Not only were they critical of the Saturn, but Sega in general. Remember the Sonic 3 review?
Would like to have heard your opinion on where the later champion edition fell short of the original release
It is hard to nail down any one game as the most important racing game even for a particular narrow era. On a technical front I think I'd have to go with Hard Drivin and the sequel Race Drivin (which would have been an expansion pack or downloadable update if that had been a possibility at the time) A 4 position shifter, a force feedback wheel, a clutch, and even an ignition key instead of a start button. Not only was it one of the earliest polygon based games but it was also one of the first if not the first game to try to deal with actual physics for the car including famously the tire pressure. You got a view from the drivers seat including a dashboard with functioning gauges. You even had to start you engine at the start of the race and if you had chosen a manual you had to put the clutch in to do it and if you didn't use that clutch correctly when shifting gears you could stall or over rev the engine and blow it. You couldn't just treat it like another arcade racer, you had to actually drive it like a real car.
The home ports were all one kind of train wreck or another. For starters none of them could replicate that analog wheel or the 3 analog pedals. Not even the computer ports, sim racing gear just wasn't a thing yet. And for another there were no 3D graphics chipsets yet, the arcade had just brute forced it with extra CPUs (yes, plural) so home hardware trying to run the whole 3D game on just a single CPU that was much slower than the combined might of the arcade machine, yeah. That was never going to turn out great.
So really that game (and sequel) lit the way for what the future of racing games and in particular racing sims was going to look like.
I actually got a few motorola 68010 cpus that are a direct upgrade to the stock Genesis 68000 to test if Hard Drivin' improves at all.
I clearly remember how this went down in Canada.
We saw Virtua Fighter, Panzer Dragoon and Daytona on Saturn. It looked amazing. The launch came out of nowhere though (summer surprise launch) and so at 15 years old I began saving my money.
September comes. I now HAVE the money and head to Electronics Boutique across the border near Detroit, MI. Guess what ? I see Ridge Racer. Video of Destruction Derby. Battle Arena Toshinden. I had no idea what a PlayStation really was until I had walked in there.. I had dismissed it as a Jaguar or 3D0 type console prior to seeing it. I very nearly still bought a Saturn that day but I hesitated as I saw my father's face. He looked like he was genuinely afraid he was about to watch me blow 400 dollars. A week later I opted for PlayStation.
Daytona did look great. For 3 months. We were all not really educated on 3d graphics and how it all worked... I didn't even realize it was harder to render more cars. Ridge Racer had what appeared to be rounded edges on some cars. It looked absolutely incredible. And the particular video I saw of Destruction Derby looked SHARP and had that transparent smoke effect that was incredible at the time.
I definitely don't dispute the game reviewed well... but I remember the talk on the ground in that store that day. Everybody was making the comparisons and everyone felt the PlayStation looked better. Not to say it was in every respect - but that's what happened.
I remember going into HMV in the UK and they had an import PlayStation and import SEGA Saturn next to each other. PlayStation playing Ridge Racer and Saturn playing Datona USA. I stood and watched both side by side for about 20 mins, I was unable to try either due to the queues ,but I did make a decision that day....... And it was PlayStation seeing the two together Ridge Racer was leaps and bounds superior, I totally understand why the majority went the PS route.
This was similar to my experience. I paid a small fortune for an imported Saturn. Daytona couldn't compete with the visuals of Ridge Racer and, rightly or wrongly, visuals mattered a lot to consumers at this time. It was all about the polygons. Daytona looked so rough that I couldn't get past it. I ended up trading in the Saturn for an imported PlayStation with Ridge Racer.
Coming off the Genesis version of Virtua Racing and the 32X's Virtua Racing Deluxe, Saturn's Daytona USA was pretty impressive for a first generation home port.
With the Virtua Racing home ports, I was already used to polygon pop in of the track, this just went with the territory of these polygon home ports. Daytona added the texture mapping, the number of cars on screen and in race, and it brought all of the arcade version home including some hidden stuff.
Thanks for putting this together, it was an interesting look at things. I had not realized Daytona USA on Saturn had an almost E.T. like legacy.
I will admit, the graphical issues really turned me off and I didn't play it much at launch. It was not until CCE came out that I realized just how great the original release played.
One bit of irony is that years later when I saw an original Daytona machine in all its 4,000 quid glory I noticed even it had some pop in!
The sonic wall, even appearing in two polygonal chunks was glorious. I was genuinely saddened the day my Saturns external memory cartridge “failed”, not because of all the other game saves I was proud of. For a 15.44 second lap time on the 777 speedway was lost forever.
Thanks much for this video! Daytona USA is one of my go to games for a quick fix even today ❤ I got Daytona USA Saturn on my Polymega, Daytona USA Arcade on my Ayaneo handheld, and the amazing 360 port with widescreen & HDR on my Xbox Series X ❤
I played it to death on Saturn when it came out. yes, it didn't look as good as Ridge Racer, but I'd rinsed RR in a few days. I was playing Daytona for months. The handling on Saturn was sublime, somehow they translated the arcade feel on a digital pad. Playing the Saturn version upped my arcade game. Shame about Daytona CCE. Typical Sega, they miss an open goal.
Ridge racer is garbage compared to this I played Daytona first thank god and after years played ridge racer and didn’t understand the RR hype.
Try playing the sega pc version with any wheel you’d like and I believe higher res 🤤
Thanks for reminder about this technical marvel that was underappreciated at the time.
This game cost Sega a console sale. I had put down a deposit on a Saturn. Shortly thereafter Gamesmaster showed a clip of Ridge Racer in one of their outros. The next working day i popped into my Game to watch the Saturn's demo pod. This game seemed so poor next to Ridge Racer that i went to the counter and got my deposit back. Gallantly, the chap serving tried to talk me out of it, but to no avail (i later saw him on TV as one of Bad Influence's reviewers).
My redemption arc is that i did buy a Saturn a few years later, with the option of one free game from a choice of two. I chose Virtua Fighter 2 and left Swagman on the shelf (oops). More recently i bought a multi region cart and imported Daytona USA Circuit Edition from Japan, which is supposed to run slightly better than the launch version, and i do mean slightly.
I think i recall it being mentioned that the XBox360 digital version was the closest to the arcade version. Now removed from the XBox store i believe. Yay for the digital future!
the fact is Ridge Racer looked better in motion and regards to draw distance. This hurt how the game was received. I had a Playstation but I eventually got a Saturn after my N64 about a year and a half after the Saturn released here in UK. I'd played Ridge Racer and it was certainly impressive but in terms of the gameplay itself, Daytona had a depth that didn't exist with Ridge Racer. There's a beautiful knack of learning how to wrestle your car's control in Daytona that is simply lacking with Ridge Racer. Of course I think we can all agree Ridge Racer is fun and I especially love Ridge Racer IV but looking objectively, Daytona's driving model is layered and rewards the more you know of it. At one stage I had a couple of official Sega steering wheels and I was on Daytona very often enough that I had concluded it one of the finest racers ever along side Stunt Car Racer. Something I still think holds true actually.
I imagine a lot of people that declare Ridge Racer a better racing game are coming at the argument from what is the most fun from being the most accessible an experience. And that makes sense because a game too difficult to play from a lack confidence in how you play it isn't fun for a lot of players. Daytona isn't as fun for a lot of players for this reason but it's exactly the reason it probably would be if they understood it's layers more. It's objectively a better game for it, even if it's not subjectively so. A lot of folk wont be understanding to the joy Daytona's driving model has compared to a more accessible and therefore for some a more likely enjoyable Ridge Racer experience, which is fine but Daytona was always on another page regardless frankly. Beautiful game
oh and I miss Teletext
I just ran over 100 laps of the beginner corse and I still cant wrap my head around the handling and power sliding, how on earth are you ment to take that last corner? And how does the sliding work in general? Ty QQ
I’ve beaten endurance mode over ten times and here’s my secret: deliberately run near the side rail and tap the inside of the curve, you’ll lose speed but you won’t lose any position you can’t take back. I’ve beaten this game over 400 times and it’s my all time favourite racer.
It’s one of the reasons I wanted to live in Japan and now do on and off.
Meu maior motivo de compra do Saturn em 95 pra mim o jogo é incrível me diverti e divirto até hoje com essa versão um jogaço
All magazines in Brazil at the time had positive Daytona reviews. It was incredible. I was super lucky to get a saturn in 95, even people who later had the n64 loved daytona and virtua fighter. Negative people towards this are looking back. In 94, 95, this was incredible.
I got this game with my Japanese imported Saturn. Got the racing steering wheel also. Fantastic memories due to an absolute cracking game!
Perhaps I'm not in the right circles, but I've never heard of Daytona USA being review bombed or badly reviewed upon its Saturn release. What I had always heard for years was its poorer state visually compared to the likes of Ridge Racer on PlayStation.
I still like, and commend AM2's work on the port. But I will be the first to admit my enjoyment of the game on Saturn does nictitate me to accept some short comings that I don't commonly see on Saturn. The very harsh pop up, and the 20 (16.67 PAL) framerate, and (in the case of racing games) the lack of a Multiplayer mode.
I will still give Daytona this though from a technical viewpoint, it's a heck of a lot more visually pleasing than Destruction Derby, Hardcore 4X4 or Sega Touring Car.
Daytona on the Saturn was the best selling game in North America. People clearly liked it back then.
Yes, I made that clear in the video by talking about my own memories and the reviews of the time. The video takes aim at the modern day narrative the game was universally slated for its poor performance.
Had my Saturn hooked up to a Yamaha 2070 Dolby surround system, and an NHT subwoofer, and used a Sharp 80-inch projector when Daytona Saturn was released. One of my top 3 gaming experiences in my life. Doing 40 laps marathon runs listening to Roling Start. The subwoofer blared. Having perfect concentration for an hour. One or two mistakes and you had to accept not winning or restart. Even today with 4K OLED screens, 4090 graphics, and CPUs with 16+ cores. Still, no other arcade racer can touch Deytona.
The last time I played this game was with family. We used 4 old computers running the Model 2 Emulator all connected through a switch, and 4 different gaming wheels. Definitely one of the funnest afternoons I ever had.
I bought the sega saturn in summer of 1995 just for this game alone. I remember that summer playing it nonstop and me and my buddy mike, also an auto racing fan, was always coming over to conquer my scoreboards.
i got my sega saturn recently, and was followed with amazing gameplay, i bought sega rally and virtua fighter 2 and they were both astounding. i decided to look for a copy of Daytona USA as my local arcade still has one of the original cabinets from themid 90s, but decided to not buy one when i heard it was "bad" maybe now ill decide to go back and buy it afterall!! amazing video
This is a great game and brings back some memories.. played at in the arcade that used to be at Magic Kingdom in the 90s .. I believe they had an 8 car set up and would be shown on a big screen .. I remember playing and actually winning first place feeling like I actually won something
I remember going to a friends house who bought a sega Saturn in a vacation trip to USA, when I saw Daytona USA my jaw dropped , I couldn’t believe there was a home console that could do that kind of graphics, I’ll never forget that day , he had virtua fighter, virtua cop and bug too, I remember the disappointment going back home and looking at my snes 😆 it wasn’t the same looking at magazines than looking at the real thing, internet was in diapers back then
I had no idea people thought it was bad... even back then!
It stands great alongside ridge racer, they’re both excellent but very different games really.
I remember first seeing this in arcade and I was blown away with how good it looked
I didn't have a Saturn when it was current, but when I did get one many years later there were two games that I rushed out and bought: Nights and Daytona. I have the Xbox 360 version which I play on the Series X today, which is easily the best version outside of the arcade, but I loved the Saturn version. Great fun!
I really wish the pal version of the game was full screen especially if you have modded a Arcade1up machine to play the Saturn version of Daytona USA because on a arcade machine you want full screen and there’s not even any options to make it full screen either 😢
Well said brother! You can't experience game play in pictures and videos. You must play the game to experience gameplay. I was around when Daytona USA arrived in the arcades. After having my mind blown seeing Virtual Racing in the arcades my mind was blown beyond belief seeing and hearing Daytona USA. As a Sega Saturn owner when the system came out, words could not express how happy I was to be able to play Daytona USA at home and I loved this game because of the gameplay. You are spot on with your words. It is just sad we have so many people ready to spout negative nonsense on things without really knowing what they are talking about.
Spot on, mate. We should be celebrating what these games managed to achieve on the hardware they ran on, rather than pick holes in them and retrospectively tear them down.
@@SEGAGuys Agreed.
Been doing it since the 90s but great to have converts to the faith.
I’ve waited this long to find others they have appreciated Saturn Daytona, now play the greatness that is the pc version!
Not sure I would take a jab at Ridge Racer for running at half the frame rate of its arcade version when Daytona USA ran at 1/3 of the frame rate of its arcade counter part. That being said Ridge Racer had features and enhancements over its arcade version, more cars, music, challenges and 3rd person camera. Daytona USA CCE shows we could have had these graphics with 30fps and better draw distance. While the game did review well back in the day it is clear SEGA felt the need to release another version.
Pointing out performance isn’t “a jab”, especially when I made the point of explicitly saying “this video isn’t a slight on Ridge Racer”.
I first played Daytona USA in Honolulu Hawaii in 1994 at the young age of 20 and my mind was blown!
When I bought the SEGA Saturn in 1995 the first game I bought was Daytona USA and I was sadly not blown away as my expectations were very high and the Saturn was just not powerful enough to emulate the Model 2 hardware.
Either way I was still very happy as I also bought Virtua Fighter 2, Virtua Cop 2 and countless other classics so I never regretted buying the SEGA Saturn.
I remember renting a Saturn and Daytona USA from a local video store not long after launch date. If you'd experienced the arcade version for any amount of time it was a bitter pill to swallow initially because the arcade version was just so visually stunning. It was totally unrealistic to expect the Saturn to compete with the power of the Model 2 board but most people did and were let down particularly with the frame rate. Sega fueled this to a degree with some arcade rom revisions featuring Saturn ads during attract mode which led people to think they were going to be playing a perfect port on the console. Great Review.
it's nice to see a youtube video with a more nuanced take on this game. that said, it's been my impression that a lot of peoples' opinions on this port nowadays don't really have anything to do with what reviewers said, and more just what the general public thought. i mean the way graphics don't just pop in but sort of pop in and out and back in again does look like a bit of a glitchy mess. but the saturn was also just an absolutely crazy console from an era where sega were really flying by the seat of their pants on the home console front. when you understand that the saturn is literally not a 3d console and every game doing "3d" on the saturn, including daytona, is just made up of nothing other than 2d quadrilateral sprites with a ton of affine transformations happening simultaneously (think of it as thousands of SNES "mode 7"s happening all at once) it's kind of amazing the console did what it did on any level at all. also while ridge racer was certainly better / cleaner looking on the playstation, the idea that it was arcade perfect is not even remotely true, especially visually, where plenty of the playstation's own texture limitations were on full display. we really didn't get anything that looked "arcade-perfect" in that generation til the N64 showed up. and for me, while i love daytona usa and ridge racer as well, i always liked cruis'n usa the best of that generation of arcade games anyway. 🤷♂ anyway, always love watching your videos and i can definitely see how if this is the game you had when that console generation launched, you've probably got a soft spot for it. things were changing so rapidly on the home console front during the 32/64 bit generation, that some of these games could go from seeming groundbreaking to antiquated in very short time. as it stands, i've always found it odd that the saturn never really did get an arcade accurate version of daytona, though. there was this version that was graphically messy, and then the "improved" versions that were technically superior graphically but changed so many other things for seemingly no good reason. sega makes some odd decisions sometimes.
Yeah, you're pretty much spot on there. I would say this take is perhaps a little prone to its own hyperbole in terms of quite how negatively the original Saturn port is looked at.
I don't think its a particularly common narrative to describe it as "A shitty racing game that's worse than Ridge Racer" especially.
The problems came about in the general publics perception when seeing the two games (and consoles) side by side in stores circa 1995. Not critical reception, not technical analysis and especially not gameplay. Just that initial first impression of seeing the two new consoles side by side which with a situation that specifically drew attention to the SS Daytona USA's flaws and not its strengths. It was much the same when the original Virtua Fighter was lined up alongside Battle Arena Toshinden (Having gone the Saturn route myself, I sure heard plenty about it all from my older cousin who went Playstation. Just how it was with those console wars).
It was the reputation of the Saturn itself that probably suffered most from this, as opposed to the games specific legacy. Even when CCE and the Dreamcast version came along, the critical response still fell along the lines of "More technically impressive, but doesn't come close to nailing the handling or gameplay the way the original Saturn port did".
@@BrySkye i think john from the youtube channel "hard 4 games" summed up the saturn pretty well when he said "the sega saturn: poorly timed, poorly executed, not very good. but otherwise good!" - i definitely have a soft spot and a lot of curiosity about the saturn nowadays in retrospect. it had some really unique games for what it was. but for the generation it released in, the saturn was absolutely a hot mess of a console plagued by internal problems at sega and the company generally having no idea what to do with the home market at the time. as such, it was a far cry from what either the playstation or the N64 had built-in in terms of capabilities. still a cool curiosity in its own right, but at the same time it's not surprising the saturn's "3d" launch titles were janky messes compared to what the playstation was doing, and that can easily be blamed on the saturn's architecture as much as it can be developers rushing to meet release dates. if they were building those games on a console that wasn't trying to force a square peg (square sprite?) into a round (3d) hole, it's plain to see that they would have had an easier and faster development time, and had far less hiccups. the saturn is a truly unique console. this is both what makes it so fascinating for what it did end up doing, and also makes it so apparent why we'll never see anything like it ever again.
I loved the arcade game and lived through the Saturn rollout, peak and fade out and admit I loved the system. It provided hours of great gaming for me. I never expected an arcade perfect port, I was just hoping for something close enough to the original that was playable and on that front I'd say they succeeded. I think they did the best they could with what they had and I had many good times with it. Never regretted buying the console or this game.
TH-cam has its own complete alternate universe of videogame history. Where Final Fantasy VIII was a flop because it’s a tiny bit less popular than its predecessor. Games that sold millions of copies are “hidden gems” because we stop talking about them for 5 seconds. And EVERYONE knew in 1995 that they shouldn’t have bought a Saturn. Hell, I still wouldn’t go back and unbuy the Saturn and this game with what I know now. The Saturn arcade ports made the PS1 feel like the bro box in 1995, while the Saturn master race was playing the same games you enjoy at the arcade.
Nice video. Having played them again a few years ago as I was trying all games compatible with the racing wheel, I also prefer the original version to CCE. Personally, I had never heard that Daytona USA was poorly reviewed; I remember on the contrary Ridge Racer getting (unfairly) blasted for only having one track (with two variations) compared to the usual three that Sega had made standard in its arcade games.
This game is so fun still - thanks for making this video! I agree that there was some slander against the Saturn (despite having built in internal memory unlike ps1 and I think a better color spectrum if I remember the specs right ) - however Sega definitely felt there was enough issues w the game to re release it for this platform 2 times in the states and two times in Japan(their CE version was superior ) - as well as the insanely expensive net link version (which I’m still curious about playing myself). The Xbox arcade/ps3 versions were absolutely amazing and so glad we got those. Maybe a the new Sega IP remasters we will see more Daytona !
this and sega rally are my favourite racing games ever. im 40 now and i still play them. i literally played sega rally last night lol
Bought a Saturn on UK launch day (coming from a Mega Drive and CD) and I do specifically remember avoiding the original Daytona port and never bought it because it was poor but did pick up the second version (Championship Circuit Edition) as soon as it was released.
Even with emulation and the ps3/360 port, I still love to play the Saturn port. It’s just fun and controls very well. Everyone bitching about pop up either didn’t grow up then or has been brainwashed by modern gamers trashing on it. Made me want a Saturn like nothing else.
Thank you! I still have my 1st issue of Saturn Plus, and that gave Daytona 82%
While it did criticise the pop-in and it having a "pixelated feel", it still reiterated how it was still incredible fun to play nonetheless.
I've always been in both alleys with Saturn Daytona. I lived and breathed this game in the arcades back in the day. I even remember getting my copy of Saturn Daytona from Cash Converters during lunch time in school back in 1996.
But I instantly felt the difference between the arcade version, more in its frame rate than graphics, but still, the graphics also.
Also, playing Sega Rally on the Saturn at the same time as this version, yeah, night and day for me.
Saturn Daytona will always play great, but it's one of the few arcade conversations that I felt was impacted by the greatness of the arcade version and I couldnt help but feel disappointed; Whereas I go the other way with Sega Rally and say that the Saturn port is better than the arcade.
Great video James.
I played the sat version first but seen the arcade version first so I kinda feel you on that. Didn’t have the money back then for the astronomical 1 dollar fee at the time vs other cabs so I learned to love
My sat version. The pc version is even better though and deserves some love.
I remember spending a whole day in hmv playing this. 😂
Great video. I'm old so I'm starting to see a new breed of retro game videos and commentary that could only be made by younger folks who were not there, sometimes repeating things that they've heard. People's expectations in the 90s were completely different than today.
A fantastic video, this is such an underrated game. I moved from the Amiga (A1200) / Sega Megadrive to the Sega Saturn. Daytona USA and Sega Rally were the first games I bought for it and I still have those games along with my Saturn, it is one of my favourite consoles. The soundtrack to this game was amazing also.
Is there any chance in the future that you could do a comparison between the Both Saturn versions and the Dreamcast version? I must admit I didn't like the Daytona CE version as much as this original version and I remember being disappointed with it's handling given Sega had more time to make the follow-up.
Appreciate you watching and commenting, glad you enjoyed it. An OG v CCE v 2001 is something I’d be happy to do, leave it with me. - James.
@@SEGAGuysFantastic, that would be great and very much appreciated.
I had the game at the time. I can promise you I wasn't disappointed with what I got. I'd compare it to Virtua Racing Deluxe in a lot of ways. Sure, it's graphically inferior than the original and not the best showcase of what the machine was capable of, but they nailed that gameplay experience. And I'll tell you right now - if the reviews were shite I wouldn't have bought it. That's all I based my purchases on. What else was there?
Holy shit i forgot about Teletext! Thanks for that nostalgia hit 😁
I know some people hated on it but coming from a Megadrive I was so impressed at the time.
Thanks for making this video!
After the disappointment of the Sega Mega CD, i was put off Sega consoles for a while at the time, so I didn't get a Saturn until the mid 2000's when I was buying up loads of retro gear from boot fairs, 2nd hand shops etc, and although the graphics on the Saturn version were a bit on the rough and ready side, I do agree that the most important aspect - playability - was there 100%. It had that "just one more go" aspect to it. Very addictive game, and i eventually began to love the rough and ready look to it. It's a must - have game for the Sega Saturn.
I got this when I was about 12yrs old when it came out . Borders and the slightly rough graphics deffo didn't makes it less enjoyable, I loved it . Sega touring car championship though ... a mess ! Good vid . All the best from Aberdeen pal . cheers
Loved this game back in the day and still do today. Yes it looks a bit rough but the gameplay is incredible, pop up is not an issue when playing as you are so focused on the driving. CCE tidied up the graphics but killed the handling and it just isn’t as fun to play with the original always being the one I went for. Great video, liked and subscribed 😊
Back then I was a kid and had no idea how it was reviewed or received but I remember my feelings toward those arcade ports (or arcade originals itself I had few interactions with) - even then it was a mix bag. Frankly I was not impressed by Daytona games in 90s and it holds up to this day. Probably the reason for this is that I was introduced to it somewhere later (around 97) and by that time this game felt like past gen product compared to more recent racers on PSX.
I still remember buying my Saturn when I was 13. It's sad that it failed so fast.
I completely agree that the Saturn version of Daytona is amazing, I’ve been saying it for years too. It plays identically to the arcade version IMHO and I own a stand-up version of the Daytona arcade machine so I get plenty of chances to compare them. Graphically they aren’t too far apart I think. It’s like they took the arcade textures and just reduced the resolution so the colours and atmosphere of the game are the same. Championship Circuit not only doesn’t play right, it also doesn’t look anything like the arcade game.
It’s fascinating to hear Edge gave it 8/10, I could have sworn they slated it! 😅 I’m sure I remember them saying the lack of lighting changes when the car goes through the tunnel was poor. It’s funny to see them highlighting the 40 cars on track too, for years I’ve been saying that feat goes completely unremarked when it’s a real achievement. That said, if you count the cars on-screen during the ending it’s actually 38, but it’s still a huge number!
The Saturn port of Daytona reminds me of the DC port of Sega Rally 2, they were both rushed and could have looked much better if Sega hadn’t been in such a rush to be first to market, yet both play identically to their arcade counterparts, which is what really counts.
Past Super Mario Kart on the SNES and Wacky Racers on my 486DX2, the first racing game I played was Gran Turismo 1.
That's also one great game but I figured I am more a fan of arcade style racers, thus I am somewhat sad I played neither Daytona USA or Ridge Racer when those games were on sale in stores.
I’ve owned and tried all the high end upscalers over the last couple of years and even used the scan line options but reverted back to a 14inch crt.
Daytona and other polygonal games look so much better and feel so much better on crts than the pixel look, which is pretty much true of all the old consoles.
I’m turning into a crt purist unashamedly.
I run my Saturn through a RAD2X, which is a fantastic cable. You’re right that CRT’s make these older games sing.
@@SEGAGuysGreat cable. I remember using the smoothing button on the N64 one which looked really good. As much as I love using my crt its only 14 inches big because of space haha so maybe I’ll invest in another for front room use!
@@SEGAGuysgreat videos by the way subscribed!
Thanks! Take a look around the channel, tons of SEGA videos covering all platforms and homebrew, as well as our fortnightly SEGAGuys podcast.
I've been on the lookout for a CRT, here in Scotland they seem a bit more expensive than in other parts of the UK ... but I need to convince my wife to let me bring one into the house first!
I've always felt the Saturn version actually plays better than the coin op version personally. The control is just so tight.
Obviously never played the arcade version on a deluxe sit down. I own the one with the rear projection TV and it's night and day. Saturn port is average at best.
I remember playing the game on import on a Japanese Saturn and deciding Playstation would be purchased first. It was THE most important Sega conversion of all time up to that point and it was a disaster compared to the PS1 launch game Ridge Racer. Until the holy trinity of VF2, VC and Sega Rally popped out Xmas 96 (or 95?) when sales of the Saturn console took a rapid upturn.
This was a great game at the arcade and on the Saturn. Played it all the time
There's a TH-camr who covers Sega topics that I am a big fan of, but was perplexed when he kept saying how bad Daytona USA on Saturn was. I shrugged my shoulders and figure he had done his research; nonetheless, when my shiny new Saturn had Daytona in the drive, I had great fun and thought it was a fantastic display of graphics and performance. I agree with you; as a 18 year old or so, it was astounding!
Another know nothing that never e played it back in the day and just repeated what he read.
EVERY arcade game takes a hit when ported onto consoles.
Rush San Francisco on the n64 was another one. Everything suddenly was ultra squared off.
The fact that we got crystal clear and smooth graphics in the arcade version speaks of the advancements they were achieving back in the mid 90s.
Was playing this on my anbernic rg arc d yesterday
I get that it plays the best of the Saturn ports, and I am a Saturn lover as it's my favourite console of all time, but the pop in drives me insane these days. If I want to play Daytona in 2024, I open RPCS3 and play the PS3 version in 4K with a good analog controller and it's awesome this way.
I would say all these points largely hold true for Sega arcade ports on all their systems, which was a huge part of the appeal of their consoles. Good video mate.
I don’t know why everyone’s been up in arms about this. Back in the ‘90s I was impressed by this game and thought it was amazing.
Alot of my favourite Saturn racing games were slated, Daytona, Destruction Derby, Sonic R, STCC. But it never stopped me having the best time with them back in the day and again now. Music and gameplay has alot to do with it for sure
Although Sonic R to me doesn't hold up as well as other games do, I can still have fun with it! Destruction Derby, like Daytona, is a Saturn port I feel could have florished if it was allowed more time in the oven, especially knowing how well the PlayStation original runs! I would've proposed adding split screen multiplayer, as a way of 1up-ing the PlayStation version! STCC isn't the best racing game on the Saturn, but fun can still be had with that one too! Then again, Sonic R and STCC both came out when there wasn't much else coming to the Saturn, so getting those games at that point in time was more justified! Still, because of how bad things had gotten for the Saturn by May 98, I jumped ship and got myself a PlayStation with Gran Turismo and Crash Bandicoot 1! Even so, I did welcome both the Mega Drive and Saturn back into my life the following year!
@@tr3vk4m more of a word than tr3vk4m! 😁👍
On launch it was a 7 out of 10 game. Problem was it quickly became a generation of pure visuals and it really was destroyed by the Sega Rally port. So it didn't stop being fun, but it quickly became a 5 outta 10. But it still felt purer than CCE which was absolutely painful for handling.
I traded cce the day I got it.
I was very unimpressed when I first played it but I only got this game about when ridge racer 4 came out. Nowdays I enjoy it but think the controls are a little twitchy but haven't tried the analog controller yet. I think putting it on maximum laps and the hardest difficulty is the most fun.
Hear hear! I completely agree with you, that game nails the gameplay perfectly and i love to play it from time to time. For those who are sensible to 5th gen low polygon graphics, it's a very charming game visually.
This and sega rally are some of my favourite racing games to play even today, they are so rewarding to master. None of the racing masterpieces to ever come out on the PS1 or any other console can replace those two saturn games, they're treasures.
I remember having fun with this, but I thought it was a bit ass. I loved the beautiful color and the "fair" representation of the arcade - and it was good for a first event. The later edition showed what should have been in the first place. I always guessed it must have been rushed, which makes sense.
Great Video! All that and you didn't even mention the best evidence of the superiority of Daytona - the absolute banger of a soundtrack.
😂 very true! Mitsuyoshi-san is a legend.
Whilst i never had it at the time or played the arcade version, im thankful i completely missed any ov the "daytona saturn bad" narrative. Ive always considered it to look cool. Then i got to play it and even being piss poor at it, its incredibly enjoyable - and ive only played the PAL version.
Great vid! In 2024 the graphics don't even look that bad - they look great in fact! It's retro 3D. Not to mention everything else this port has going for it. Makes you wonder what all the fuss was about, especially back then when this was state of the art.
Still got my original copy, though i play the 360/PS3 version mostly (had the 360 version since launch, though recently got the PS3 version which is still available, and which has free multiplayer unlike 360 - thanks to MrThunderwing for the heads up on that!) - though might be time to reconnect the Saturn again for some original magic!
The gameplay is the primary reason why I prefer the Saturn version over the later CCE and Dreamcast port. It just doesn't feel quite right in either of those games, unlike the original Saturn version, which pretty much nails the arcade feel despite using the Saturn d-pad. The graphical shortcomings DO make the game feel a little different from the arcade version, but it's not enough that it destroys the overall feel (and more importantly fun) of the game.
Ridge Racer in September of 1995 was the most incredible racing game I had ever seen on a home console. That said, I never cared that much for the arcade version. Daytona USA was THE arcade game for many years, and while Ridge Racer looked great (especially in its deluxe cabinet), the power sliding was too wild and wonky for me to appreciate, and that remains the case to this day (when I play the PSX version, I try to drift as little as possible). It's also a barebones game, both in arcade and console form, even more so than Daytona and every other Sega game I can think of.
All of this is to say that when I finally got a chance to play Daytona USA on a Saturn kiosk at Blockbuster Video, I absolutely loved it. There were graphical issues, sure, but overall I thought it was a great-looking game. I was blown away that we had reached the point where a game like Daytona was now playable on a home console. Additionally, while Ridge Racer is clearly graphically superior in many ways, there's something about the bright color palettes and texture details of Sega's early 3D games that I just love.
I do wish that Sega had delayed the launch of Saturn rather than pushing it forward with the surprise E3 announcement, so that they could have focused on better development tools and a more polished software lineup, but Daytona USA on Saturn is still a good game regardless.
You guys should do a video on the recent Tactics Ogre translation for Saturn. It's easily the best version of classic Tactics Ogre (SNES translation is buggy, PSX has annoying load times, Sat has superior music and script and larger resolution and no load times).
Ironically I remember us kids that had Playstations being jealous of Saturn owners back in the day at school for this and especially Sega Megamix. We conceded that Ridge Racer had the better graphics, but Daytona had the game play. I remember also being excited when I got a PC powerful enough a couple years later to play the Windows port.
I honestly can’t remember seeing review scores back in the day but I did end up buying the game and as much as I tried, I just couldn’t enjoy it. It just didn’t feel enough like the arcade game. I returned it a few days later, and exchanged it for Sega rally, and I guess because it was such an incredible port, it worsened my opinion of Daytona even more.
Great video. Has genuinely piqued my interest. Maybe now that I have a better appreciation of the hardware limitations, I’ll finally be able to enjoy it for what it is and not what I wanted it to be.
It's weird. I was a teenager back then and I guess I assumed nobody would totally overwrite my experience, but I didn't know about the internet then...
For ages, I had Daytona and Virtua Fighter as the only games on my Saturn and I was so happy with both. Replay value was in the gameplay, not the number of options. And yeah, it looked great to me even in PAL.
This is part of a wider issue which is the total disregard for the UK's games history. Gamers, even British, of recent generations talk about the 'Genesis' and 'blast processing' and the 'crash of the 80s' as if they were a thing to us. They think Richard Jacques was a respected composer!
As someone who was in the industry back then as senior editor of VGA magazine I appreciate an unbiased look at Daytona and the Saturn in general. Revisionist TH-cam gamers not even born when the Saturn was available are part of generation fail. They will actively want things they love to fail simply for the memes. Look how they reacted to E3 ending. 🤦♂️
The Saturn unfortunately was a victim of the PlayStation hype and Sony’s Yakuza type tactics. One day I’ll give an interview about it. The Saturn is a wonderful system and now prices are out of the reach of many as collectors have scooped up most of the games. I’m glad I got my collection when they were new.
If you love the Saturn and appreciate the views of folk “who were there”, then you’ll enjoy our channel mate.
And yeah, Saturn prices are crazy now but thankfully ODE’s for every pocket size are available, so the barrier of entry for Saturn is as low as the cost of console & £105 for a Fenrir. Cheers!
I still love playing this game on xbox360 , to this day
The thing that bothered me the most on this port wasn't so much graphics, personally I felt the controls were kind of clunky but then again I haven't played it for many years so makes me think I should try it again
The controls are virtually identical to the arcade and was one of the thing the devs had to make sure were the same.
Crikey, Teletext? Now that's something I haven't heard spoken about in years! Interestingly I had my review of Shining Force III published on this service... and Panzer Dragoon Saga in Sega Saturn Magazine 😁
I had this in june or july 95th and was something from another planet. A few months later (after vf2 and sega rally releases) i sell the whole package for a psx with tekken 1 and ridge racer revolution and i regret a lot for it; the other hand psx gave me more variety and overall more fun. Then i sell psx for a sega saturn again and then this for a n64 i still own full packaged and in mint condition.