Doctor Strange 2 - The Wanda Problem of Madness | Anatomy Of A Failure
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
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Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is Marvel's next step into the multiverse after Spider-Man No Way Home. It's visually great and also has a fresh feel of a Marvel horror movie thanks to Sam Raimi. The main issue with the movie seems to be the writing, especially in terms of the antagonist Wanda Maximoff/Scarlet Witch as well as with the exposition. So today let's look at the Wanda problem and the exposition problem to maybe learn something.
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Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (2022)
In Marvel Studios’ “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness,” the MCU unlocks the Multiverse and pushes its boundaries further than ever before. Journey into the unknown with Doctor Strange, who, with the help of mystical allies both old and new, traverses the mind-bending and dangerous alternate realities of the Multiverse to confront a mysterious new adversary. “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness” stars Benedict Cumberbatch, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Elizabeth Olsen, Benedict Wong, Xochitl Gomez, with Michael Stühlbarg, and multiverse of madness scene honest trailer multiverse of madness everything wrong with doctor strange in the multiverse of madness full movie online free watch clip 4k hd multiverse of madness after credits explained multiverse of madness wanda bad movie good movie multiverse of madness memes scene doctor strange vs doctor strange opening evil wanda kids explained boys smartest man alive wanda black bolt reed richards doctor strange 2 mistakes Rachel McAdams. The film is directed by Sam Raimi, and Kevin Feige is the producer. Louis D’Esposito, Victoria Alonso, Eric Hauserman Carroll and Jamie Christopher serve as executive producers. The screenplay was written by Michael Waldron.
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I'm trying English subtitles in the clips today. Do you want them or are they a distraction? I'm using them in Spanish on my Spanish channel: th-cam.com/video/Hd718nQbjt4/w-d-xo.html
MCU Sucks now
I was hoping for "why everything everywhere all at once worked while MoM didn't" video(
@@evgenkhersonets880 I've been wanting to see EEAAO but haven't been able to. Did you like it?
"There were parts of this that they let Raimi direct" - review on letterboxd
Is it halloween already? Matpat theorize about "Saw", Nostalgia Critic review "Adams family", now you with "Doctor Strange 2". Is it Summerween (Gravity Falls) or something?
Scarlet Witch/Wanda: “I made mistakes and people were hurt.”
Doctor Strange: “I didn’t watch your Disney Plus series.’
Wanda: big mistake!
Good, it was trash.
@@jmac9327 both was trash
Stolen
@@gonhunter3994I made this comment on The Critical Drinker’s Review and someone stole it so I decided to make this comment again in this video.
Its insane how the writers didn’t think of the “make her dreamwalk from the beginning so it feels like an addiction “ concept.
Like, as SOON as she does it for the first time, it took me completely out of the immersion. All I could think was why the hell wasn’t she doing that all the time then. We don’t see a single side effect for dreamwalking (yeah I guess u get corrupted but she and strange seemed fine physically)
Yeah the real failure was telling but not showing the nasty side effects of dream walking right away. I don't think enough people in the audience took the warnings seriously when nothing bad immediately happened so I see a lot of people reacting this way to her dream walking that should fix the problem.
Also dreamwalking is morally fucked, it's mental slavery of another person's body, imagine being trapped in that hell void every night while some stranger hung out with your kids pretending to be you.
Yeah. She'd basically be one of those TikTok girls who "shift" all the time & are addicted to it to escape reality, which is pretty trippy and scary in itself.
The dream walking thing shouldn’t have been made into a big deal. All that was needed was to focus on the dark hold. They could’ve also said that the other strange who got killed by black bolt was also trying to use that book and got corrupted like Sinister Strange.
@@ChaosUnfold dude they did. they literally said that their strange was using the darkhold and became corrupted. why else would they execute him?
@@theslimreaper8043 They executed him because he told them to after he caused an incursion that destroyed a different universe. They were all afraid he would end up destroying theirs.
The part where Wanda 's children reject her after seeing the terrible things she has done is the only thing about the movie that makes sense
which is a shame because it's a movie cliche that's been done a dozen times before
Apparently the part where she snapped at the kids was real. Something like she got hit the head (unintentionally by the young actors) and she snapped. The look of fear from them was real. Elizabeth apologized after the scene wrapped up.
Wrong
@@bradwolf07 ya huh that smells like bullshit
Yeah it immediately reminded me of Into the Spider-Verse
Wanda being the villain actually makes even less sense if you're seen Wandavision, cause that show makes such a strong effort to show her deciding to be a hero in the finale and sacrificing Vision and her kids to let go of all her grief, but then Dr. Strange 2 undoes it all and makes her irredeamably evil because "an evil book took over her mind offscreen."
Darkhold is a hell of a drug. And she is dealing more than grief in the series, she is dealing with mental health issues that weren't actually resolved in WandaVision.
Major theme of Multiverse of MADNESS is actually mental health. Wanda is dealing with full blown psychosis, America is dealing with debilitating trauma and Dr. Strange is dealing with his obsession to be always in control.
The point hes trying to make is how this movie is hollow unless you sink hours into a tv show
I love no way home because the movie is made for me, but the same thing is a major issue with the movie. If you havent seen toby and andrews movies, the movie makes zero sense
I don’t know about that. I agree with the whole grief thing, but Wanda didn’t fully decide to become a hero. She robbed Agatha of her free will even after the townsfolk told her that it was a fate worse than death, and smiled about it. Not to mention that Wanda said that she would release her only IF she ever needed her. Meaning that Agatha could stay mentally tortured for centuries or more.
@@sadgirlhours4088wow didn’t realize till now the kids probably didn’t understand/weren’t hyped.
real. A good writer knows that magical corruption is NEVER as impactful as a character in the right mind deciding to do something. Magical corruption = oh, she never actually did that, it's the book.
vs
Oh shit, SHE JUST DID THAT.
And in the show, THE ENTIRE THEME is dealing with grief. it ends with ACCEPTANCE. all of a sudden she goes back to the denial stage? Fine. Then make Wandavision a separate thing that has nothing to do with her motivations in THIS movie. DO NOT make Wandavison necessary to "understand" this movie when it contradicts it completely.
This's probably the first MCU film where the hero doesn't have a real 1v1 against the villain and it's really disappointing. A crazy trippy fight between the best magic users in the MCU would've been great to see
Yeah. Or have Evil, Sinster Strange show up. That would be awesome
Wanda would’ve won, having it be a psychological thing by her seeing that she is a monster was for the best
but that doesnt make sense to the level of power wanda is portrayed to have i would like wong and strange vs Wanda
@@chasehedges6775 what if strange wasnt evil
Issue is that the movie sets her up instantly as being too strong so there is never room for that confrontation. It’s a shame
You consistently give better plot takes than marvel's writers. The one about Peter Parker losing his spider sense because he was depending on Ironman's tech for too long was SOOOOOO good i HAVE to see it as offscreen cannon.
What about the plot hole where Peter Parker has collective amnesia for three movies straight about not remembering the lesson that he learned from Uncle Ben's off-screen death, to the point they had to freaking kill off Aunt May and pull a soft reboot in order to make him rebecome the same character from Civil War XD
@@RedDeath2001 as far as we know, Uncle Ben doesn’t exist in this universe, and Peter never learned the lesson of “With great power, comes great responsibility” from Uncle Ben. I don’t understand where people are getting this idea from when it’s clear that the MCU’s Uncle Ben figure was both Tony Stark and Aunt May. It doesn’t always have to be Uncle Ben.
@@angelaalfaro6905 it should be uncle Ben though. He's literally the only reason Peter becomes who he is. and now that they changed it, that's stupid.
There was going to be a scene where Peter just lets criminals hit him with bullets like it’s whatever in Far From Home but it was cut
@@shiori00 like I just said, Tony Stark AND Aunt May ARE this universe’s Uncle Ben. Remember in Into the Spider-verse how each different iteration had different versions of Uncle Ben as their reason for doing good and becoming Spider-Man? Well, in the MCU, it’s similar in this case where it’s Aunt May who helps him become a better hero. I appreciate the fact that it was different this time while still retaining Uncle Ben’s message. Again, it does not always have to be an uncle to deliver this message, especially when the Uncle Ben people are most familiar with doesn’t exist in this universe.
I think a better option then the “What if they get sick lol” for Wanda’s motivation would be a fear of her kids dying in general. She can explain that a Thanos-like threat might appear again and kill her kids, like what happened with Vision. A relatable fear, and tied to Wanda’s past.
this is smart woah
Orrrr she can just go to a different universe, take it’s time stone and then if the kids are killed she can rewind time….
There's still no real justification for that fear. The kids themselves were a manifestion of her own magic and there's no reason that's been explained why she couldn't just create them in her own universe or recreate them if or when any of them die. A better motivating factor for her would have been getting her love Vision back, since he is an established character we already know, exists outside of her magic, and wouldn't require the viewing of the Disney+ series for general audiences. In fact the whole concept of Wandavision was the result of her mourning Vision's death, so building upon that in this movie would make sense for Wandavision fans, as well as do well with general audiences who never watched the TV series but did watch previous MCU films.
@@Eidolon1andOnly
In WandaVision she could only keep them alive in her hex but outside of that they'd disappear, so she'd have to go to a universe where they were real
@@jasonjones3328 Still doesn't make sense. She could create a hex anywhere and live a life with her manifested kids without killing anyone.
I think one way they could have addressed Wanda's inconsistent logic and inconsistent behaviour is by making it abundantly clear that she was being influenced/controlled by the Darkhold: that it was the evil book calling the shots, not her. Which...still would have been a dumb plot device, but still would have worked better than what we got.
Honestly that is such an Mcu plot device now, Mcu used to be moral conflicts, but now it’s just physical ones that you can beat in a big cgi fight.
It's amazing that f.i. hinting at and finally revealing the book is actually sentient (or a direct conduit to Mephisto or something) could have saved Wanda's erratic character and corruption arc.
But Strange used the dark hold too. Was he immune to it?
@@gb469x he just used it once
@@sadchild9478 plot devices don't always need to be moral. This one was supernatural. Plus a part of the plot is what Strange decides to do to maneuver this situation, i.e. if he'll use the Darkhold or not, and what he should do with America Chavez. Either way we just had a film entirely with a moral plot device (NWH). And you're saying "now". Which films in the past had moral plot devices?
I’m terrible, while watching in theaters when she sent her moms through the portal over a bee… I laughed pretty loud about it.
That was such a lame scene though, can't blame you. Really, the reason you've lost your parents and have been roaming the multiverse ever since is because of a bee? 🙄😅 And then the scene directly moved on too. So even if here background had been impactful for connecting us to her character, there was not a second to reflect on it and it didn't matter for any following part of the movie.
It's like... my dog stepped on a bee... type of situation if y'know what I'm saying 🙄😂😂
It’s gonna be extremely funny when Chavez meets Ant-Man and The Wasp.
@@MysteryMusic512 lmaaoo i hadn't thought of that yet 😂😂😂
@@merry_christmas that scene was carefully placed so it could be removed from countries which dont accept lgbtq and place in countries like usa for pandering points
I think my biggest Pet-Peeve with this movie is something you mentioned at the start.
Wanda is steamrolling everyone and it's not because she's strong and astute but rather everyone else is weak and stupid.
We're seeing like eight very strong and possibly the most forward-thinking heroes in the MCU all collectively decided to bring knives to a gunfight.
yeah and also how suddenly the women superheroes are a hard fight for her, after she kills the both males in seconds.... and the Xavier moment.... they downed him to a Z level hero
Cos shes a pretty girl whos had a hard time...And she's feeling a bit bad about herself.
Not really the point I was trying to make, fellas...
@@misterkeys2893 Your thread got incel-jacked. Move aside, female, lol. Fedora time.
Because _Strong Female Character(TM)_ must always be seen dispatching the _oppressive patriarchy(TM)_ 🤦🏻♂️🤷♂️🙄
ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
One thing that bugged me was Wanda's illogical use of powers. She removed blackbolts mouth with a thought. Why isnt she just willing everyones brain out of existance? Its a cool moment, but makes every fight after it contrived
Its like #5 in the umbrella academy, he can teleport at will, why doesn't he teleport everywhere
@@VanquishedAgain #5 is actually explained! It drains him a lot and he has a limit, as seen in the S1 clothing store fight
It’s a stupid movie.
The girl breaks into their building and they decide to talk to her first?
They should have been attacking from the start.
@@magacop5180 because they know she's possessed.
Plus as Filmeto said, they have to assess the situation first, she was capable of taking all of them 1v1 what makes you think she can't do it at once?
"tell her, blackbolt" hahaha love it.
I hate that they had to have fantastic set up her "what mouth?" line by specifying "he can kill you with a whisper from his mouth. *FROM HIS MOUTH* where else do people whisper from???
Consider the equally plausible line: "He can kill you with a whisper from his ass"
Ummmmm... an ass whisper? Hahahahah
Keep in mind that black bolt is immune to his own powers so it was bs he was done dirty
One of the worst lines ever in a movie, although Madame Webb may have topped it however, unless you’re talking about the whispering eye, yes, it would come from the mouth
@@spittinvenom9843 hahahah whispering eye
The other problem is the writers make Wanda stronger by having the other heroes be stupid. Reed Richards is canonically the smartest man alive and they know multiverses exist yet somehow they weren't aware of their own Wanda and the powers that she may wield. Strange also never tried finding the new vision even though he knows about Westview and everything that happened there.
Lol true they ruined on fo the best hero's in MCU
Wanda on reed's universe didn't even participated on the battle of thanos, it seems she left the superhero life a long time ago since her kids are naturally born and grown, there's no vision for her, Ultron was successful, and not even all the suffering that made her powers grow in order to reed get to care about it, reed is smart but he doesn't predict the future or is aware of every possibilities in the world about what could suddenly happen to a person out of everyone, you guys are forcing. Not even Wanda knows about white vision, how would strange know? he was gone before everything blow, and sword obviously was not going put on the papers that they created a weapon using visions body.
Personally I don’t think anyone knows of white vision besides Wanda who may have assumed he was taken out by vision it’s more like why is white vision who is aware of his past self never decided to help her
One of the reasons I always come back to Filmento's videos is he doesn't just point out movie flaws, he has ideas on how to make the movie land better. The dream walking addiction is an awesome motivation. I would have been on deck with her pain all the way through the film. As it was, she just rocked up and started clapping wizards like she was on her second play through of Elden Ring with very little provocation and I kind of hated her after that.
Also - the editing is on a whole different level in this video. I kept grinning at the Undertale exposition noise XD
strange being tossed by Wanda and being followed by the "falling down the stairs yell" meme cracked me up
I think a big thing with film and tv criticism especially now is "if you can't come up with something better don't critique it" and people have taken that to a whole new level. Filmento does this very well, Hello Future Me just released a video completely rewriting LoK season 2-not changing the entire plot of that season, but using what's there to rework it into something more concrete, something more...THERE for Korra to help her grow as a character. It's great to see what people come up with.
@@TheRibottoStudios Yeah seems like people now expects everyone to be something so that they can get to criticise it in this case a movie director, it's not enough with just knowing about story and noticing flaws, but the questions is can those people come uo with something better themselves? Or do they just like to talk sht to discredit the persons vision? I mean i do it i come up with stuff that in my opinion would be better but would it actually be?
@@zacharyjackson1829 “like she was on her second playthrough of elden ring”
Ur Elden Ring analogy has me dead 😂 It’s perfect.
I pretty much came to a very similar conclusion. I never felt like Wanda was a true villain because they kept reminding me of her goal. Compare this to the Ultron for example. He says his goal maybe two times in the movie, but we actively see him going towards that goal without him stopping every 20 minutes and telling us what his plan is. We know what he wants to do, and then we just see him getting closer to that goal. That is a villain.
Age of Ultron gets a ton of knee jerk hate for not being the first movie all over again, which is sad. Ultron is a fantastic villain.
@@YouCantDeleteDenzelL I just wish he wasn't cracking jokes and didn't have a human like face.
@@lordofthesithvader9430 honestly Ultrons best look was his first scene in the damaged Stark Bot. That’s where he looked actually terrifying
@@YouCantDeleteDenzelL the problem with Age of Ultron IS that it's the first one again.
@@lordofthesithvader9430 his humor was great in my opinion. it reminded me of Tony because HE WAS a product of tony. I also loved his constant biblical references despite being a machine who didn't believe in god, it added a human like element to him which i think is important for making the character likeable
The thing is, Wanda didn't even need to kill anyone, she could have just controlled them.
Either way it wouldn't hv being that impactfull
oh i totally forgot but seems like im not only the one lol
i think that wouldve been scarier than killing people- like in wandavision how people were appalled by what she did and begging to be let go to stop their torture is more horrific than just killing nameless people
She actually did kill people in the movie!
She didn't even need to control them she could have just asked them nicely.🤦♂️
I would also like to point out that America basically just needed a pep talk to be able to completely control her powers and save the day. If that isn’t bad writing, I don’t know what is.
Deadass just saw this movie today and that was my tipping point 😂 all the damn movie saying she cant control it and he is like “ I believe in you “ and that’s it really ? Idk everything about this movie in terms of writing is lazy and that sucks
And the two Captain SHEroes had a longer fight than the two guys who were destroyed instantly despite Wanda could seem to "maniuplate reality"
@@IamNinjaOfNinja lol out of all the things that could've made you disappointed you chose the most inconsequential thing (fictional female characters fighting)
@@jwdeleted Actually, this did bug me too. Captain Marvel, I might concede since both she and SW got their powers from the infinity stones, however, what is special about Captain America that she gets to actually fight when the other two where minced in the blink of an eye...
@@lastgiddon fr. its one of those "you go gurl!" moments that was said to be one the main points this phase bore
Adding Vision alive and well to this dreamwalking concept would've seriously helped her motivations. Paul Bettany has expressed great interest in playing the role for the foreseeable future and definitely would've enjoyed a cameo role. Seeing Wanda dreamwalk to be with her husband AND her kids would have made more sense to general audiences. Even if you haven't seen Wandavision, surely you've seen Infinity War and know her husband is quite dead. Showing us that Wanda is trying to escape to a life where none of that happened and she got to live a comfortable and happy life, now THAT would've made a strong motivation for her character going absolutely bonkers to get there.
good thougth
They really should've had more of Wandavision into Wanda's character altogether. It would help bridge the 2 a lot, like the fact she's got kids now and why she's reading the Darkhold.
they didn't want to pay for his contract
MAYBE vision is dead in all universes.
yeah it's kinda annoying that she just forgot about Vision?
The main problem I had with villain Wanda is that at the end of WandaVision, she learned through Agatha what an unleashed witch is like and seemed to condemn that. She also seemed to have learned to let go of her boys, as she did when she released the town, so her sudden flip in this movie makes no sense whatsoever. What might have worked better is if a multiverse Wanda who is not our own is the one rampaging after America. This way, Strange and Wanda can work together, her character can be consistent, and she could even get her kids if evil Wanda kills the dreamwalked Wanda along with the Illuminati. It would also allow for conversation between evil Wanda and our learned Wanda, exploring the dichotomy of the two reactions to losing her boys.
I would like to be a little fly and listen what they say in the writer's room. How come we can come up with a perfect clear scenario in a YT comment when those guys have crazy exp, time and paid millions? I know the suits fkd up alot of things but the writers must be accountable for smthing too.
Bravo you just wrote the movie i wanted to see.
@@ricardoredway Y'all are just eating anything up lmao. Evil Wanda is a great idea but it could have been handled better.
yeah, speaking of her ''boys'', where were the alternates of Vision or the father of the children ?
@@kelechiojobor933 Well we only saw one other universe with Wanda
How they went from Wanda being one of the most interesting remaining characters to the dopiest is beyond me.
They think they can make any movie and you'll go see it, and they were right.
They did the same with the winter soldier. A mess. The most intriguing characters and for what?
Actually it’s fairly simple how.
PHASE 4 MARVEL HAS NO IDEA HOW CONSISTENCY, MORALITY, SEPARATION, AND TONE WORK!
It’s how Wanda is expected to be good after enslaving a town, why John walker is a pariah for killing a terrorist, and how Disney expects us to believe carol danvers lives up to the hype.
I think they did it so that Wanda would stop overshadowing Captain Marvel.
@@changvasejarik62 phase 4 is actually pretty good, idk why people say it’s not, the only part of Phase 4 that isn’t good is She Hulk
I seriously thought Dr strange would fight his evil self instead of Wanda. That would make way more sense and maybe Wanda would just interrupt Dr strange for her own gain.
i thought that too.. kinda like in the " What if ...." episode
@@seyo8068 Well, that already happened
I feel like the trailer made sure you knew that wasn't happening, as soon as she said that line about not seeing fair I knew Wanda was going to be the damn antagonist for the whole movie, I just hoped her motivation wouldn't remain as stupid as it was for as long as It did.
Does him fighting 3rd eye Strange with music notes not count?
@@FriedEgg101 That was literally a side quest , Wanda was the endgame of that movie tho
One of the big problems with the movie was the premise. Wanting to be with her kids makes sense, but if the mutliverse is infinite why didn't wanda spend her time finding orphaned versions of her kids that she could adopt. There must have been a number of versions of her that died.
Those kids were awful actors btw!
Probably because then there wouldn’t be a movie were wanda is a villain. Anyway the plot of the movie was dumb, like why would we care about her imaginary children that she created in her mind.
@@SlashCy1 The children were real. That's kinda what being a reality warper entails: making things real.
I think the most concise answer to that question Mike is that she couldn't see any of those universes. Dreamwalking is seeing the lives of your alternate selves. She can't see the lives of Dead Wandas. Therefore she can't see her kids in those universes and therefore can't target them. In theory she could use America's powers to find orphaned boys, but that still requires her to get a hold of America and her powers.
I don't understand why she didn't recreate her kids properly with the magic from the Darkhold *if* it was just Wanda. But it's not just Wanda. The issue is she read the Darkhold. The Darkhold is not a genie in a bottle. Or is more of a jerkass genie. It exerts control over the person who reads it. Because it's the demon Chthon trying to puppeteer reality via people who read the book. So it's not going to give her a concise, logical effective answer. It's going to give a twisted destructive answer. It's a Faustian book.
Probably because that would require them to actually explore the multiverse!
Nerfing everyone doesn't make Wanda seem more powerful, it makes me think that if Strange and Wong weren't nerfed she wouldn't be as big of a deal. The worst thing you can do to make a villain seem powerful is to weaken your heroes.
Also we could have solved so much if Nightmare was the actual villain. He could have been manipulating Wanda and her dreams because that's his domain. It's just a missed opportunity.
That is what made thanos such an amazing villain.
No no no, we can't have strong independent female character be manipulated by a man in a modern movie.
@@pinkgoergefloyd8340 Thanos had The Gauntlet and an Army of sorcerers and Warriors , wanda was fighting them alone , there is a big difference , they made dr strange and wong look like a weak ass child bcz even at the end , after all the ass whooping he received and all the runnings that he did and with all the Power he gathered , he was defeated and was unable to defeat her , wanda stopped herself
@@lowkeyarki7091 this is a real reason they didn’t make it like that. They also feared making a woman seem crazy.
@@lowkeyarki7091 touch grass please
They showed Wanda as a person who never learns. I though the logical next step for her after WandaVision would be to try to fix and redeem herself from all the suffering she caused, be better. Hawkeye would be sad to know about this, he was the first who motivated her to be a hero.
wasnt she controlled by the book of red evil?
I felt that, even with me having seen the Wanda vision show, it added a different layer of confusion for me because at the finale of the show we see Wanda come to terms with the fact that vision is dead, and her children simply are not real and that its just the way things have to be. She comes to terms with that realization. But then she just does a 180 and decides that all that character development was moot and didn't mean anything in doctor strange solely for the sake of the plot.
Totally agree
the book messed her head up
They should have kept doctor strange in Wandavision
on the contrary.. by the end of Wandavision she realizes that she is scarlet witch reincarnated and has way more power than she initially thought she had.. she then starts actively looking for ways to bring her imaginary kids into reality.. the series ended by showing literally two versions of her.. one sitting at the porch and the other going through the book
@@Pronoiia they did show it in the end credits of Wanda vision at least
That problem with Wanda's power happens with villains in a lot of things. They'll be this unstoppable force that tears through extras like they're battle droids, but when they get to the main characters, they conveniently decide to slow down, giving the heroes just enough time to escape with their lives.
Need a villain like Cell or Majin Buu who just gets stronger and stronger in response to the hero getting stronger. As long as it doesn't run away from you (I'm looking at you dragon ball) it puts stakes to each engagement. Doesn't even need to be a power level thing. It could just be something like a new manipulation of their existing skills. Like I can use fire magic and water magic, but now I can use fire to turn my water magic into steam and use to super charge an explosion. As long as it's consistent with the character's power it'll work
Reminds me of Hulk vs Hulkbuster man. We need villians like that, those who just who batshit crazy nonstop and dont just stop and talk for no reason.
@@AvoidTheCadaver There are characters like that and we'll most likely get them soon (Gorr would be there on paper), but for Wanda to attempt an instakill towards Strange would be nonsensical, as they were once allies. Buu or Cell were never familiar with Goku, Vegeta or even the Z fighters, make sense for them to have a deathmatch. It's like wanting Civil War's airport fight to be a fight to the death: makes no sense.
The villain trope that I hate the most is the one where the writer just turns the villain into this unstoppable force of nature throughout the whole story just to lose to the protagonist in the end because *He GoT cOcKy* or *He MeSsEd Up* or something like that.
That's called plot armor
The mashing of scripts left this film with two distinct themes that don't enhance one another.
The really great theme of "Are you happy Doctor Strange?" Which I love. Despite both Wanda and Strange having immense power to influence their reality they've both picked what's best for others, but not themselves. Wanda lost everyone she loved and Strange lost out on both being the sorcerer supreme and the love of his life. The classic limitless power, but you can't save the ones you love story.
The other explicitly told theme is that "Strange is too afraid of losing control." And on that one I call complete BS. His greatest accomplishment in the MCU was finding a way to stop Thanos. A plan which involved him Dieing for 5 years and relying on the other avengers to fill their roles without him.
Yeah that was one of my gripes for this movie too. It boggles my mind that everyone is giving Strange grief over his Thanos decision knowing FULL WELL that he this was the only plan that would've won. Plus dude sacrificed just as much when making that choice
Considering the last paragraph. . . Didn't they TRY to do that with Dragon Ball, in the Buu Saga?
In fact, wait a minute. . . The classic "limitless power, but you can't save the ones you love" story? That's Superman from 1978.
Scott Trail What happened is that Cell saga was originally going to be the end and Goku was really gonna be dead, but the series was just so popular that Toriyama was convinced to keep going (or forced by publishers, I dunno) and so he brought back Goku because he never really had a plan for what would be next for Gohan-DBZ was originally meant to end with “and so Gohan became earth’s new defender, the end”.
So what I’m trying to say is Goku truly believed his death would stick
@@kevintyson1947 not everyone knows how events played out, how could they not cameras. It's weird how citizens dialogue references things that were probably classified
I hate the Christine Palmer narrative-she serves no purpose outside of being the one who got away, and being the one to save him, even without powers.
They believe a grown Man's trepidation indecision about a relationship is worth carrying over into two movies and multiple dimensions
Multiverse of Madness felt like a film made by someone who had a list of characters, but hadn't seen anything in the MCU.
Yap ironically made by the same director who brought us the masterpiece Spider Man trilogy
💯💯💯
@@Chiayiklin that's the reason why he brought us the mediocre dr strange 2 because he doesn't know anything about MCU
Sooo sad, honestly
@@Chiayiklin Raimi isn't the screenwriter, he's a Director. The one that write that dumpster fire is Michael Waldron.
Honestly what made me also sad is that the power levels were SO DAMN WEAK. We had 2 of the most powerful reality bending wizards/witches and yet we didnt see ANYTHING truely mind blowing. Both characters showed MUCH higher feats in previous movies/series so its a shame we got such lame confrontations. I understand it might be dificult to portray just how strong these characters are but what we got in this movie were legit One dollar store versions of them....
The fight with the alien in the beginning I think was a good demonstration of Strange’s and Wong’s abilities, and they had some neat tricks later on, but I do agree I wished we saw more
When death battle shows what a character is capable of better than movies with millions of dollars in there budget.
Facts, each time they show these characters I swear they get weaker and sloppy. I think the marvel movies are heading down a hill fokes.
At least blackbolt powers were mind-blowing
@@crimson9790 this comment is illegal.
I think the theme of Addiction would have suited Wanda's arc very well. Considering that Wanda could have learned how to create her own kids with her own min-hex, it doesn't make sense that she would need to travel to another multiverse to be with them. I think she should have teamed up with Doctor Strange in the beginning (but keeping the Darkhold a secret) and they would meet America Chavez and journey into another multiverse where Wanda discovers that her children are real. And this would cause her downward spiral as she either tries to be with them or save them - using the Darkhold.
hmmmmm interestinh
Anything would be better then what we got writing wise
true but the darkhold convinced her that making her kids vs seeing real flesh and blood versions of them in a different universe would give her true fulfillment as a mother. Its implied offscreen that she went off to seclude herself and overtime her thinking has become corrupt. I get the point where he was saying wanda started in the movie still sane enough to make reasonable decisions. But in her disney plus series at the end credits shes clearly stuck in her head obsessing over the darkhold. I dont think she was implied to have been sane at this point right after coming out of her traumatic experiences.
She can't recreate those kids. Its specifically stated in wandavision that since wanda created those kids and vision in westview they are permanently attached to that reality.
@@taylorconnor2315 oh! Well there you go
How many mentions did Vision get throughout this film? Barely a mention at all!
She was so obsessed with her bloody children but she more or less seemed to forget about the man she also supposedly loved!
yeah that had me super confused. i didnt watch wanda vision cause i dont have disney+ so this was so strange to me. im honestly still confused even after a super fan explained it to me. but to hear i need to watch wanda vision was a no for me. not goona pay to watch a sow that will better explain a movie i paid to see
Right? It seems so weird to have the whole TV show push their romance so hard, make her motivations entirely about losing a future with him and then next movie, have her just be like Vis who?
100% Actor must have fallen out with Disney. He's friends with Johnny Depp... so maybe there is a reason there? Either way not having Vision in the Movie, after saving him in Wanda vision makes zero sense. They specifically save him in Wandavision (White version gets his memories) so where is he? Shouldn't she just search for a universe where Vision and the Kids are alive and Wanda is dead? they would even be glad to see her!
@@madquest8 They filmed DS2 immediately after WandaVision so I'm not sure it would be Bettany's friendship with Depp. It may be that he had that BBC programme to film?
Also I'm not sure she could dream of a universe where she was already dead.
And her brother, whose death was a sort of foundational trauma in her first MCU appearance.
When she and Dr. Strange were floating above "Wizard HQ ," I wondered why Strange didn't just offer to help her. He could have gone with something like, "with America's power and our combined understanding of magic, I'm sure the three of us can find a happy solution." There could be justifications for her not accepting, but it makes NO sense for Strange to not even try it.
have u tried logic on woman b4?
@@rocketsmall4547 I'm a woman who excels at and with logic, and logical structures. Have you tried 'spell with complete words, BEFORE?
@@cheriann6461 ok. if thats tru. then. i ask u the same question as stated b4
@@rocketsmall4547 Try asking again, but this time, spell words such as "true," "you," and "before," correctly. Try that punctuation again, too. You don't get to question someone's ability to reason while employing grammar that a seven-year-old child could correct. How can I take you or your question seriously?
@@rocketsmall4547 I bet you see yourself as the giga-chad from those memes
Trust me, you ain't
You raise stellar points. Dreamwalking should've been explored acontextually at the beginning of the film, and revealed only later on to the audience. It would provide a more convincing motivation + a more believable corruption of the Darkhold. The storyline would've been vastly improved.
It was a visually impressive film, however 💛
Love this commentary.
The only reason I knew anything about the concept of dream-walking prior to MoM was because I'd seen The Last Witch Hunter (2015). In it, long-time hunter Kaulder ends up protecting a witch named Chloe, revealed to be a dream-walker, from the villainous Witch Queen, who will utilize Chloe's power for her own gain in order to...hey wait a minute. 😆🙃
@@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose oooop 🤣🤣💛😅 wait a minute indeed. 💛
@@karabomoumakwe2387 LWH was playing on TV a couple weeks ago and as the details of its plot came back to me, I quickly started to realize then its connections to MoM. 😆✨
@@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose I haven't watched that film yet hey 😋. Need to give it a look see 💛 thank you 🔥🔥. Also just googled 'Dream Walking', seems to be a general mystic concept/trope, interestingly. 👌🏽
@@karabomoumakwe2387 You should, because despite the RT average, it's really that not bad. *I* at least was into it. 😊
The biggest problem I found in the movie, was that it walks back Wanda's progress. Wandavision is about Wanda coming to realise that if she continues to live in the world she created for herself, she will hurt people. She had to come to terms with her actions having consequences she can't really come back from, that by indulging her trauma she inevitably traumatizes people around her.
Basically the lesson she learns at the end of this movie, is pretty much the same as she learned in the TV show. Which can be fine, if that's the intention and it's shown it's not a lesson she learned, but then... why bother making the TV show at all if the catharsis of the ending is going to be completely eradicated the next time we see the character?
I absolutely LOVE Scarlet Witch, and on it's own I really quite enjoyed the movie, but then there's such a disconnect. It relies on the show to establish motivations, but ignores the resolution of said show. The movie did such a disservice to her character.
My explanation for this would be that now she’s given something else to grieve. She’s no longer grieving Vision, but her children. The dark hold has also corrupted her. At the end of WandaVision, she was given a whole new power source, and was able to tap into power unknown to her. So she would probably be curious. Wanda is clearly an unstable character. And I do agree with you that it completely changes the ending of WV, but I have to admit, I didn’t expect Wanda to be the main villain of the film. It was a huge surprise (at least to me) that she was going to be the main villain. So it was a pretty great way to hide her being the villain. Wanda has lost everything. She lost her parents, her sibling, her husband, her children. Hell, she lost the avengers. She got a taste of what happiness was like. It makes sense she would seek it in the multiverse, because it wouldn’t be fake, it would be real. The film was lacking in some parts, but idk. It’s on my marvel top 3.
You understood nothing about Wandavision and it shows. She possessed an entire town. The only reason she stopped was because Agatha intercepted her plan and held her kids hostage. Then she used the darkhold to defeat Agatha. There was no progression.
@@osimeon00 agatha was done at the end. wanda didn’t have to end the town, but she did because it was hurting people. i think the only valid explanation for her turn was because she got ahold of the darkhold imo.
@@osimeon00 compared to before she was able to close the hex after defeating Agatha and being able to say goodbye to her magically created Vision and Children. At the end though when she's Astral Projecting or w/e and reading the Darkhold you can clearly hear her kids calling for help. Those maternal instincts are still there, and whether or not it's C'thon starting to "corrupt" Wanda or her actually hearing her children calling for her. It does give her a motive.
The Darkhold corrupted her. It says it in the movie. Watch.
So agreed with this. There are lots of good things about the movie, like the visuals, but the writing is just so bad and inconsistent I couldn't ignore it.
And the absolute feminization of the whole MCU. Big yawns all around.
@@heathmcrigsby Lol what?
@@slothful2039
He's probably one of those jackasses who think women being involved ruined the film
@@heathmcrigsby can’t tell if ur sexist or just hate terribly written women in movies
💯💯💯💯💯
If Strange had just asked Wanda out, they could have eventually had kids, and the whole movie could have just been a romantic comedy.
Most underrated comment
Well that image isn't going away any time soon
Ngl that was my first thought when he approached her
One hell of a power couple.
lmao ur editing is hilarious. great vid :D
As someone who loved the first Doctor Strange but hated this one, I appreciate that you offered solutions that would make this movie better.
Same.
same. it also feels worse just because the first one was so good and all the hype for 3 years
@@momosaku16 You mean 6 years?
I agree, Doctor Strange 1 is and was and will always be better than Doctor Strange 2.
I think this one is a lot better than the first.
Wanda: "I just want my boys"
Quicksilver: "Was I a joke to you?"
sweet home alabama
@@miaisnotmortyick my dad love that song
Vision be like: 💀
Wow, guess she didn't care about her brother, or vision, or previous avengers who died or....
@@princedaniel714 LAZY WRITING
the biggest issue I have with movies like these is that the writers/director probably came up with some really cool visual sequences before writing the story, and then failed to organically build them into the plot, rather than just building sequences out of the plot itself.
If that makes any sense
Makes sense to me. The movie's plot was just one contrivance after another to tie the scenes together.
Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the was in Derrickson’s version and had to be used in some fashion.
Judging by Disneys track record you’re not wrong, they planned the entire finale of Star Wars based on one sentence “Somehow Palpatine returned”.
100% my thoughts too
@@Juulicide Ain't that the truth!
I spent a whole season watching her moving from a villain to a hero, all for me to do it again for another 2 hours.
Why not? I like this back and forth. I like this unpredictability.
@@lazarus6366 shite writing, ctrl+C
@@lazarus6366 cause the shit sucks..
@@Nightvss it has just been two oscillations: age of Ultron- bad to good
Wandavision- bad (not exactly, because it was involuntary) to good
Now,
In MOM- bad to don't know what?
This don't know state that we're left in right now is what is interesting. What is he thinking of herself? She was clearly a little suicidal at the end there, but if she's alive, then what will she do next?
You're acting like they've done it like 10 times or something
@@lazarus6366 the fact is we've already seen this from her before,she does something bad realizes it then tries to do something to fix it and becomes good in the end same old same old bs we saw in the TV show. Why would we like to see a character go through the exact same development we already saw before🤦🏽♂️ that makes zero sense.
I feel same way about how exposition was handled in this movie. That scene where they’re in another universe and see their flashbacks in front of them was the pinnacle of plot contrivance.
That was the worst part of this movie. I did enjoy it but that scene made me almost cringe out loud in the theater.
It's like *groan* you could've done better than cheap exposition. 😩
I loved how their most personal moments were broadcast for the entire street to witness. Imagine if Strange had a memory about going to the toilet.
That was like some futurama crap
It was so stupid lol. This movie was such a let down
@Edward_Satanic Or her powers only manifestet at that moment.
If we went with the "wanda has been dreamwalking for a while now" route, we could even make the "my boys might get sick" thing very emotional, instead of "might happen", have it be "has happened".
For example: "Do you know how many times I've had to bury my boys? How many times they got sick? How many times I couldn't do anything? I always knew about cures, of course I did. But that never helped, the cures only ever existed in the next universe over, never in the ones i was in." Or something like that, so she actually needs to keep hopping universes and can't just let america go
Like, we already know that Olsen can sell those types of emotional beats, we've seen it in endgame in her confrontation with thanos. I think she might've been able to pull it off to the point where the blatant exposition doesn't bother you, cause it's delivered so well.
DUDE
Brilliant actually
Wanda: “when you do it you’re the hero, when I do it I’m the villain”
Strange: “L + ratio + your kids aren’t even real”
Bwahahahaha
+your husbands dead
I laughed so much at this wtf
Tf bro 😂💀
wanda: *(DIES)*
The problem was that they *had* a script where Wanda was not the principle villain, but was driven to become bad by the end of the film. Because the director was replaced with Raimi at the last minute that script was scrapped after filming had begun and had to be re-written in like two weeks, and it had to use footage already taken.
Doubt Wanda is even a villain or has a role more than Hulk in Ragnarok. All concept arts from when Derrickson still helming this movie is about Dr Strange's struggle with Nightmare. I think if she's about to be a villain it's not in this movie. Even Olsen herself was shocked with this decision
The original plot was Strange and Wanda fighting against Nightmare right? Something like that. I would've preferred that over this.
that actually makes alot of sense. She's obviously not dead so it seems like she always SHOULD have stayed along the whole time. And based on how Wandavision went down, it doesn't make the most amount of sense for her to go completely evil right afterwards, it makes it seem like she's a character who can't learn her lesson as she was relatively a anti-hero by the end of that show but now in this film she went full on mass murderer. And to justify all her action by saying that an evil book is making her like that is really not convincing.
The thing that nagged at me was the question of why she never attempted to recreate her kids in her own universe. She was so powerful and clearly didn't care about whether the kids were authenticly hers. She just immediately jumped to the most difficult conclusion.
Why couldn't she just make real children in her universe.. Why does it have to be billy and tommy
@@PenguinNinja45 hell, why couldn't she just adopt like a normal person?😅
@@Paradise2003 When I meant make a child I mean like actually just find a husband and have a baby with him
@@PenguinNinja45 Gotcha
@@Paradise2003 She already "raised" them in Wandavision
I think the greatest failure is that it's really not Multiverse of Madness, but Wanda's madness in the multiverse. They hyped Dr Strange being the most dangerous person to universe because of his curiosity and drive to go over the line for the better good of the majority, and they not only been implying that or explicitly saying that in previous movies(or What-If) they also even said it in the movie. And we got nothing of Dr Strange causing the madness in multiverse or even fixing it.
Nailed it
@@alexandriaburnett2801 But we did see that in an episode of What If... This is how MCU is going now; mixing the series with these full feature movies. Wandavision watch is necessary for this movie to make any sense.
Literally he's the only one that actually tries to fix anything, everyone else in the film seems hell bent on fucking with the fabric of reality (Wanda) or doing literally nothing at all (everyone else, especially Mordo and the Illuminati).
Technically in the post credit scene doctor strange is confronted by that woman who says "you caused an incursion"
My take was that all of the madness was caused by the Darkhold. So, in any universe that Dr Strange got the book, he was the most dangerous. But, in 616, Wanda getting the book meant that she was the most dangerous. My biggest complaint is how the illuminati wasn't able to make that distinction. The book seems to want to cause incursions, which was their greatest fear. But, Xavier and Reed Richards weren't able to figure that out?
I like the solutions you talked about for making Wanda's dreams become a dream walking addiction. One big change I would add is that she keeps going to the same universe each night in her dreams, the first night it's her having fun with her kids, the next it's the same, and it keeps going on and on, a fun montage of her and her kids with her waking up upset and going back to bed excited to be with her kids again, then the montage turns dark, she goes to bed exited and awakens in her body from another universe, she's laying in the kitchen with a bottle of wine and tears on her face, clearly a wreck over something, she gets confused and starts questioning what's happening, she eventually learns that her kids are sick in the hospital and Wanda can't do anything about it (This Wanda isn't the scarlet witch yet and doesn't yet have her full extent of powers so she can't cure them when she's dream walking) she tries getting help from the avengers only to learn they are all busy (Doesn't directly say anything about the Illuminati but helps set up why Wanda is so fine with killing them, because they won't help her kids). This results in her wanting to go to that specific universe, it's not that she has an attachment to her kids in general but more so that she has an attachment to THOSE kids, that she gained a sick addiction to that specific universe.
Then when strange travels there and meets with the Illuminati we can say that Wanda upon Dream walking there first checks on her kids at the hospital before going and fighting the Illuminati. Basically, the Ice-cream scene but replaced to show Wanda saying she will do anything to protect them, which would further cement the fact that Wanda is doing what she's doing so she can see them with the full extent of her powers to cure them.
Her goal isn't to replace the other Wanda at first, but then it slowly devolves into that as she believes their universe's mom isn't good enough to protect them. And the avengers cant protect them, with her belief slowly devoling into "they are just going to die without me".
So, the movie changes from Wanda wanting to be pure evil instantly because "The Dark hold took control of her" into her wanting to cure them with it slowly devolving into madness as she starts learning of the full truth of her limits as the scarlet witch and as she becomes more arrogant in the belief that she deserves her children and that she's the only one capable of protecting them. Also, I feel like this explains why she doesn't just re-do Wanda Vision and remake more fake kids, it's because she grew an attachment to those kids and that universe, and she believes those kids will just die without her.
Yours is better than the original
Damn, we really could have had something awesome with a story like this. I'm getting sick of Disney being so "family friendly" with the MCU.
Also, Marvel has to stop killing off villains. That's not how comics work. So many come back for revenge of some sort.
yup this sound better than the movie
The only problem that I can see with this is why couldn’t she just ask America to send her to that universe, like Wong argued?
Brilliant! Now i dislike the actual movie even more lol
What I really like about your reviews is you don't just say "that sucks" or "that's stupid." You provide your own fleshed out ideas of how to actually make the movie better. I feel like we don't see a lot of that in the more popular movie review channels, they only criticize.
They could have changed "They might get sick" to something along the lines of "They could get hurt, they could die." and maybe she gives the example of getting shot by some danger or a world ending threat coming, this connects both to her fear of her boys being hurt while also connecting to the death of her brother and the death of Vision.
I assumed the implication that her powers can handle bullets (helicopter mum) but they cant handle illness.
or better yet a massive threat like thanos
even though she can manipulate reality and could easily make the sickness disappear.
@@XtrAMassivE been discussed before but during Wandavision when she took over Westview Wanda most of the time had to alter things that already existed. She turned a bulletproof vest into a dress, military vehicles into ice cream trucks etc
The only things purely created by her were her children and Vision and those could not be sustained outside of Westview. So if there's a problem that her universe can't solve she would need to travel as she cannot simply create a solution or destroy the problem.
Not to mention at this point Wanda is very much not functioning at full capacity, she's being corrupted by a chaotic destructive force that isn't allowing her to think clearly so even if she could it wouldn't occur to her since in the movie
Wanda's one real moment of clarity is when her boys are afraid of her and what she's become. And yes you shouldn't have to do homework like watching shows to understand a film universe but the part of her not being in a clear mind state is very much on display during the movie.
It could have easily just been with multiverse powers she never has to lose anyone ever again, she can grab a Vision, a Pietro, an unlimited family. And since the Darkhold wants her to destroy the universe that would cause multiple incursions.
When Wanda goes off to find her children that have been haunting her dreams, no one asked one essential question: Who the (bleep) was the father? It's not like Vision had genetics.
have you watched Wanda Vision?
@@milkandrosess550 it’s not Wandavision. She specifically states in the film that she has kids in all other universes except the one she is in. Vision most likely has human counterparts in the multiverse and I’d assume it’s the case here.
@@pearlspacejam8639 no. the film explained it poorly but she is the scarlet witch, she is the same in EVERY universe. she created her kids with magic.
@@migzwilliams2049 so why not just create them in this multiverse?
@@Ungeboren1988 she did in Wanda vision. for story purposes the writers made it so she chase instead of just recreating them.
Two other things that frustrated me was the fact that wanda was all about vision before this movie and had no interest in being with him again, just her "dream children." The other was that wong just gave into her demands to help her, and put the whole multiverse in jeopardy. What happened to "the greater good," wong?
also vision disappears at the end of wandavision
so what happens to him?
and didn’t Shang Chi go to Kamar Taj?
what happens THEN?
@@danielwan2410 and do you remember white ultra vison which vison inserted his memories to, like he said "I am vision" and flys away, never heard of again
I mean, remember Quicksilver? She doesn't.
And Wong could have easily said: "Yes, the other copy of the Darkhold is in the dark dimension. It was transcribed by Dormammu himself... So... Jump into the portal, come on!!"
@@DonVigaDeFierro My huge problem with this movie is they act like Wanda is such a badass and indomitable villain when she only gets ahead because everybody who's against her is an idiot.
Wong immediately snaps and gives her the true information she needs. Reed tells her exactly how to take out Black Bolt for no reason. Carter forgets how to catch her own shield. Xavier forgets that he's the greatest mind manipulator of all time. Dr. Strange thinks the Book of Vishanti is the best thing he can use to shield himself from deadly magic bots with. On and on and on.
It's an idiot plot of massive proportions.
I completely agree with the YO-YO villain issue. It bothered me so much.
Also the motivation issue.
Another major problem, for me at least, is that Wanda's downfall to evil was really rushed even if you have seen WandaVision. In WandaVision she did hurt people too, BUT a) she created the Hexx without her intentions, b) she didn't know how much she was hurting people for the most part, c) in the end she did realise that was she did was WRONG. And yeah yeah we saw her reading the Darkhold for 2 seconds and yeah yeah the Darkhold "makes you evil" or something. But still, how do you go from what we saw in the show to Wanda in Mom? Wanda turning evil is something understandable and very posssible after she realised the power she holds. But her turn to evilness was faster than Daenerys'. At least with Daenerys you could she how twisted she was from season 1, they just skipped a few steps in season 8. But Wanda, she wasn't always twisted, she could tell apart right and wrong, but suddenly in the movie she forgot all that. What I'm saying is that if she had more screentime, either in the movie or in some other MCU project before it, her transformation would have felt much smoother.
Be careful. Wanda stans will come at you and say it's Doctor Strange's fault for not making her kill a child for her own interest.
@@weirdnoise11 no, no, no, no. It was Doctor Strange's fault for giving Thanos the time stone to save the universe and then killed Vision. And also it was also his fault not taking power from the Dark Dimension and spend centuries to reverse the absolute point of time when Vision died and then her children despawned. (I don't know why it's an absolute point).
She knew she was hurting people like 3 episodes, maybe less, into the series.
"But Wanda, she wasn't always twisted, she could tell apart right and wrong, but suddenly in the movie she forgot all that"
While I was also disappointed by MoM and felt that _many_ aspects could've been handled better, you are mistaken about Wanda's character.
Wanda has _never_ been the most morally justifiable - from AoU to WV - constantly letting her emotions control her judgement. It was her vengeance and rage which led her towards joining Hydra in the first place, then consequently Ultron's schemes. Speaking of which, did you forget the time she willingly sent Hulk loose on a town, yet got cold feet when she saw Ultron's full intentions? Her indecisiveness and fear is what led more lives being taken during Civil War and what demonized her in the eyes of the public - her second, and most critical downfall.
What I'm trying to say is that Wanda was never a rational character, but a truly tragic one at that. Her worst actions have been tied to her pain and trauma, as have her most powerful feats in magic. I'm not advocating towards her, but I personally wasn't offended by her full on heel turn given her past - she makes for a solid "broken villain" and correlates quite nicely with the movie's theme of relenting control (remember, Strange letting go of the knife). They could've stuck the landing way better, I wholeheartedly agree, but those who think evil Wanda is totally out of the realm of possibility or "character assassination" are clearly disregarding the smaller details of her story.
@@labrosg1161 I think it’s more like how in dr strange 1 kaecilius the villain called ancient one for being a hypocrite for using the dark dimension, but she used the time stone and dark dimension to protect the universe and wait for strange the best of the sorcerers instead of for her own selfish reasons.
Similarly Wanda uses the same flawed reasoning to equate her use of dark magic with strange’s.
people who haven't watched WandaVision: "why is she like this?"
people who already watched WandaVision: "why is she like this again?"
omg thank youuu, yeea
Obviously you didn't watch the end scenes because she was tampering with the same book that drove Agatha crazy.. Agatha even warned her.. she even became the Scarlet Witch. If you didn't watch all the other stories involving these characters then it's on you, it's not a plot hole.
@@TankLCDx i think the joke here was that WandaVision had a forgettable plot.
@@TankLCDx I dont have to watch a god damn tv series about wanda to enjoy a movie about Dr. fucking strange dude! And the show was so cheap and ugly
@@morejaeru i found it disturbing that the writer thought the torture of innocent families is no big deal and giving up the torturing was a great sacrifice. Whats wrong with this people?
Yeah, performances of the actors were pretty good, main issue for me was some of the logic used with Wanda in terms of her motives. Understandable, but not developed enough to have any strong effect
EXACTLY! Wanda had essentially the same motivations as Shang-Chi's father. He just wanted to be back with his loved one even if it takes slaughtering half of humanity to attain it, the same way Wanda would for her children which is kinda stupid and empty IMO.
The performances of the actors were pretty good.
Acting: 10/10
Script: 4/10
She could just make more fake children… she was a villain for what she did to the town before, she needed to get put down.
I agree on that. If they had just given her a little bit more development within the film itself, instead of relying on shows to do that for them.... the logic and motivations of Wanda would have been better.
wish they mirror dr strange "am i happy?" arc with Wanda keep his arc but make Wanda someone who lost everything and cant find hapiness so she goes crazy with the darkhold because of the lost of her sons, because she cant have vision or travel back in time while captain america could, etc
The thing is, I *feel* like the idea was supposed to be that the Darkhold (?) corrupted her and made her evil... but I don't feel like they really emphasized on that too much in any way. It was just that one scene with Strange visiting her and that was it. Her villainy felt so sudden, even in WandaVision. I honestly didn't even feel how sorry she was for taking over that entire town - she just ran away and expected people to accept that it's because she lost all these people, it justifies her actions or something like that. It didn't help either that Monica's line was like "These people will never know what you sacrificed"... seriously?
I do love her being a villain, I just wish they justified it with better writing...
Also, may I just mention that the "wizards" in the MCU fight like Lanterns from DC. They rarely cast spells, instead they use colourful shinning objects to wack the bad guys, to the point where Strange literally conjures a buzzsaw object out of his whips.
Yeah, where is the one wizard that comes up with horrific spells, like "mass testicular torsion" or "boil blood".
How would you choreograph a magic fight?
@@imyourmaster77 what kind of question is this? Are you implying it’s not possible?
Good point. Strange shouldnt have been the only one to think of locking her into the mirror dimension. Aside from that, their only plan was to have a defensive shield that they need to perpetually sustain?
Not to mention, in Dr. Strange they clearly mention that everyone has some magical artifact they use. Mordo has his shoes, Strange has his cloak. Now I dont expect everyone to have unique artifacts, but I atleast expected the leaders of each Sanctum (direct subordinates of Wong) to have something useful.
They dont even use their portals well enough. They could have made America escape long before Kamar Taj fell, they didnt create portals to direct the canon fire to hit Wanda. They didnt use portals to escape Wanda's attack which I know for a fact wouldn't take that long.
They have spells to brainwash the world with the potential to fuck up the link to other universes, so obviously there are spells that are more useful than a simple bow.
They had the time to mobilize an entire army of wizards, there was bound to be some spell in those libraries that they could try to use
Yeah because that's all they do. They never in the movie summon monsters, open portals to other places, use telekinesis, use magical objects (clock, boots, staff), trap people in a mirror dimension, matter manipulation or even hexs people. Nope they just do constructs.
This is what happens when people just see one thing and go they copying green lanterns. It like saying the Wizards from Harry Potter are copying the force from Starwars because they done telekinesis.
They really tried to keep giving her sympathetic moments, but it didn't work once. She was too clearly in the wrong. If they had made Wanda more black and white, the movie would have become much better in my eyes.
They definitely should have started with her being more sympathetic and then slowly moved into the point of no return, like Filamento said. I watched the show, so I already understand her desperation from the second we meet her again, but trying to mix that in with moments of her clear brutality is not too effective. I think maybe they should have been the ones to seal her at the end rather than her sealing herself? She was so past any kind of rational thought, even seeing her boys afraid of her wasn't enough to stop her.
@@joyc.e.7511 "even seeing her boys afraid of her wasn't enough to stop her." By beeing exactly what stopped her.
@@baronsengir187 Re-read my comment, I was speaking of an alternative ending.
They give her sympathetic moments so hello you further see her conflict, not to try to delude you into thinking she’s doing the right thing. You’re interpretation is wrong and that isn’t the fault of the movie, cuz it was kinda obvious
@@1321-k6h what the movie was just bad writing. She’s not sympathetic
The addiction idea is so good I can’t unsee it now. Makes so much sense that Wanda would “play” mom with her kids in a universe where she has no real emotional connection with them because she created them in WandaVision
her only motivation is she was done being alone and the temptation of the darkhold like a drug she cannot think wisely.
makes way more sense than summoning demon beings to chase a teen through multidimensions
That concept doesn't make sense at all since literally her dreaming of her boys every night is the thing that motivates her to take action
@@purplebanana6420 but they don't show it properly. It just dreams, not dreamwalking. Dreamwalking is much real and have dark consequences.
My biggest problem with the movie was that things happen out of convenience. For example, the part where Strange and America walked past that memory lane place, just so happens to explain their past; or the fact that the watch is the key to open to door. It's giving "Somehow Palpatine returned" vibe. Another problem is definitely the climax of the movie. The villain is built up to be this incredibly intimidating being, but the way they can resolve the problem takes place for like 2 minutes (same problem with the 1st Doctor Strange movie too!). And of course, the whole "I believe in you, you can do it" bullshit smh
The memory lane!! It was in rebate, not free! Why could they see it if they didn't pay? It should have been a sucky preview that stopped just where it got interesting with a "insert a coin to continue".
Haha The Memory Lane aka Exposition Store was shockingly lazy writing. My jaw was on the floor.
Also how it was built up the whole time that if Wanda caught America she would kill her, like the whole time they we're racing the clock almost to keep her away, but then when she does get America? Nothing. She just sits around for like 20 minutes while Strange does all the zombie stuff. Imagine if once Thanos killed Vision and got the last infinity stone it cut over to the whole scene of Thor making the new ax. I can't believe this mess of a movie has that high of a rating on rotten tomatoes
I really loved Sam Raimi's direction, and this film was surprisingly dark. Wanda is the most horrific MCU villain, but I didn't like that after her murder spree she decided to stop just because one version of her kids didn't like her. Did Wanda even try to find a universe where they were orphaned?
Also, if you have a hero who is so powerful he can kill with a WORD- which makes him the strongest thing we have seen in the MCU- why would you tell the REALITY BENDING WITCH about your trump card? WTF?
he had no way of knowing that she was actually truly evil, I think he assumed that by telling her what Black Bolt’s powers were she would back down
"Which makes him the strongest thing we have seen in the MCU."
Yeah... no. Blackbolt is not the strongest thing in the MCU. I think anybody who's a long time fan of the films or at least someone with common sense would know that Blackbolt is not the strongest thing in this universe.
The problem is that they don't want to clearly portrait her as a villain. Just as a broken woman, victim of her love. There are arguments to beat his reasoning, and Dr. strange could have used one and nonetheless being ignored by her. BUT that would clearly depict her as an evil maniac, and that's exactly what they don't want, for whatever reason. And the same thing happened with Thanos, he explained why his plan to save the life in the universe makes sense, and it was a stupid plan based on anecdotal evidence, but our "heroes" never argued against it. They just say "bruh, you evil". Even though the plan could easily be counter-argued with a few dialogues, to then have the battle. So they basically agreed with Thanos, and the universe will eventually starve because of it?
I don't know if this is an issue of poor writing , or the screenwriter takes the Malthusian hypothesis of resources for granted, but this kind of stuff demerit the work. The villain not only has to be beaten in battle, but also in reasoning. Because if not, who really is the villain.
As far as I understood it Wanda can only dreamwalk into universes where her variant is alive so if her kids were orphaned she wouldn’t know because she wouldn’t be able to inhabit that body. I believe Strange was only able to do it with Defender Strange’s dead body because he knew about it, where it was and that he hadn’t been dead for long
Nothing about the movie makes any sense. Her children were the result of her own magic so why can't she create her children in her own universe? Why worry about illness when she can likely cure any illness? Why does she need America Chavez's powers when Endgame showed us that traveling the multiverse can be done through technology? Her powers are never clearly defined and neither are her motivations. The entire plot is just one contrivance after another.
I think the movie would have worked so much better if Wanda was actually trying to save her sons from another universe like they teased at the end of WandaVision. Only till later when she finds her sons dead because she wasn’t able to save them that she’s driven to the point of no return and tries to kidnap the kids from the Illuminati universe.
The main problem is that the movie is actually very disconnected from WandaVision, yet dependent on it at the same time. You need to know about her kids, and that she’s the Scarlet Witch with the Darkhold but that’s it.
It feels disconnected because it throws away her character arc from WandaVision, only makes one tiny reference to Vision who was more important to her than her kids, and throws away the motivation they teased at the end. The book they never explained much about that Agatha had that only appeared to 2 quick scenes in the show, that Wanda steals offscreen and has in the post credit scene which was contradicted by the movie, turning her into a completely different character by the next movie is just bad writing.
It is also disconnected from yet heavily dependent on the Agents of S.H.E.I.L.D. show which establishes that the Darkhold is: a) practically sentient and b) corrupts anyone who reads it. And when I say it corrupts people, it makes people go full on psycho. It honestly felt like the original script would had made clear that the Darkhold was the main catalyst for her going overboard with scenes of Wanda fighting the corruption but they changed it so that all the characters just said that the book was evil and never did anything beyond that besides giving Strange a 3rd eye.
The way they did the multiverse made it feel so small. In other movies and shows, it always feels so vast and huge.
I love how dc animated movies did the multiverse hell even earlier seasons of flash did better multiverse storylines
I feel like Loki and No Way Home did a far better job of displaying the multiverse
The objective of the movie was not exploring the multiverse generically, the 3 main characters have plots related to the multiverse, there's a moment where you have a glimpse of various multiverses, but there's no necessity of adding interactions with them plotwise, it would be just meaningless fillings.
@newtonvoig you're holding onto something that Wanda told when she's not supposed to know absolutely everything of the multiverse, she saw another universes where she have kids, cause that's what she was looking for, she didn't analysed every universe on the INFINITY to see the ones she didn't had, and on her own universe she didn't had, so her conclusion was: in all of that one's they exist, but not in my own. the kids she created with magic aren't her own inventions when there's exact natural born variants of them in the multiverse with the same bodies, they simply are variants destined to be born with magic, and they obviously will comeback in the future for young avengers, in Wandavision they became beings that Wanda couldn't control and even had powers of their owns without her giving them, while the ones naturally born of the variant didn't seemed to have any power at all.
Come on, they showed us at least 5 brief scenes from other universes, in one of which they were literal paint. That's gotta be enough to make it seem big. /s
So Black Bolt is supposed to have EXTREME self discipline, I doubt he would have panic screamed. Also, wouldn't the noise logically blast out of his nose probably still killing Wanda? That would have been hilarious.
His bones are weaker than his skin... What the hell...
@@DonVigaDeFierro Maybe I am mistaken, but his nose was not sealed, was it? If it was, it would have blasted out if his eye sockets, still killing Wanda & possibly everyone else in the room. Which would also be pretty hilarious.
@@DonVigaDeFierro Wait... if BB sneezes... does it count? o-O
The fact that you advertised to me while also demonstrating the flaw of certain forms of exposition while simultaneously demonstrating a proper exposition is genius in itself. You madman
I didn't really like how the MCU protrayed depression or sadness. Thor lost basically EVERYTHING and he gets to be the comedic laughing stock. Wanda kills people for kids she doesn't have and she's supposed to be the hero?
Remember the first Iron Man and how it portrayed everything realistically?
Nothing like that here
she is not a hero anymore 😅
Welcome to woke disney, good storytelling doesn't exist. 👏
I don't think Thor was comedic at all. I felt like they played it perfectly and it was one of the most emotional journeys in the movie. He was always funny before, so he was still trying to be, but it was intentionally painful to watch cuz you're supposed to see exactly how NOT funny it really is
wanda also lost a ton, parents, brother, her boyfriend the sons thing was just the thing that was too much for her. one of my major criticisms towards The movie is the fact they just reforce the sons things over and over and dont mention the rest of the things that she also suffered and we saw in the other movies
One thing that I was super thrown-off by was the Ultron bots in the multiverse world that Wanda blasts her way through. Our Wanda's brother was murdered by Ultron in Avengers 2, yet she seemed to have no reaction to the Ultron bots other than "generic minions to fight". I think it would have been much cooler to have Wanda react in some way. Like what if Wanda arrived at the Illuminati's headquarters, and Mr. Fantastic and Professor X manage to use wit and psychic manipulation to relax dream-walking Wanda and calm her down. But then Wanda notices the Ulton bots working with the "good guys", and she's sent into a blind rage that leads to her executing the Illuminati and strengthening her desire to find America so that she can find a universe with her brother, Pietro.
I like the overall plot of the movie, but the movie had so many moments where they literally set up a great call-back to previous movies and/or a great plot thread, but the movie then somehow missed them or had the characters show no reaction to them.
Lol, i was wondering where tony stark was 😁
It's assumed in 838 Wanda hasn't experienced the events of AoU at all.
Ultron isn't malevolent and Thanos was defeated on Titan, therefore. No Vision death or snap
@@zom8680 correct, but that world's Wanda was being controlled by the Wanda from our world, which had experienced all of those traumas.
@@Sun.Shine- i think I've read somewhere that they wanted to have tom cruise as 838 ironman but because of the pandemic, he can't get to the filming site
marvels taking a break from "avengers" this IS the avengers movie for phase 4. also the illuminati wasnt set up in what if, did u even watch it? and either way what if isn't a one off it has a season 2 coming. like dude cmon do some research
I don't like how the movie portrayed dr.strange, he's this extremely powerful, skilled and dedicated sorcerer and he loses to a witch whose in delusion over kids that don't exist and has never put forth the work to show how she's became so powerful, like filmento said "suddenly the characters out of nowhere become weak and stupid"
It was extremely underwhelming. As has the entirety of Phase 4 writing. They clearly were afraid to commit to her becoming fully irredeemable. Which is a consistent problem with Disney backed productions.. be they Marvel or Lucasfilm or whatever. They FEAR Real Risk Taking.
I would love to see the original Raimy cut before they reshot 85% of it.
Wanda is a critical part of X-Men lore in comics and not a true villian. Making her permanently irredeemable in the MCU is probably a bridge too far.
@@nicholashylton6857 I think that she was being manipulated is enought.
They might be saving a full villain version of her for when Jean Grey arrives. This way a reason to avoid and build up Dark Phoenix is more plausible.
“No more mutants” could be Wanda’s last resort to avoid defeat from a near top-power Jean.
@@Blast2224 well unless Chapek starts making some serious changes, I'm not holding my breath. But that would be sick as fuck
#ReleasetheRaimyCut se y'all in like 4 years when they finaly do it lol
I cracked up every time Black (Bolt) has the snore meme substituted for his power 😂. And great ad read too!
Black Adam💀
Thats black bolt m8🤯
@@hansuri401 People clearly don't know what they're talking about. Can't even get their names right.
😆
finally someone who put into words what I felt with this movie. Everything everywhere all at once is the true multiverse of madness movie
We r living in a time where SONIC 2 movie is better than a big budget marvel film doctor strange 2 & from the looks of Thor 4 it doesn't seem to be any better either...
Not talkin about box office here.
@@IronMan-jj2fd the real problem is even a mediocre marvel makes atleast 500 mil. But movies like the northman and everything everywhere all at once don't even make 100 mil.
@@space_monkey5662 at least everything everywhere at once made over double it's budget but the Northman was more unfortunate as I believe it only barely made back it's budget
@@graysonwhite5441 And last year this happened multiple times. Last night in soho and last duel were amazing but no one watched it I kinda felt bad.
@@space_monkey5662 Actually I'm pretty sure the worst performing was unfortunately Nightmare Alley, which only made I think around $10 mil compared to a $60 mill budget. Non blockbusters definitely did bad last year and I blame that on covid and it's influence, but they seem to be doing better this year so far. All of A24's movies have made more than their budget including X and Men, with EEAAO doubling it's budget. The Northman still made back it's budget luckily, and films like the black phone made around $100 mil which is a lot. So I have hope.
I can’t help but think that Wanda totally forgot about everything she went through in her life pre-Avengers Endgame. I know that people like Steve, Clint, Nat, Sam and Bucky aren’t at all relevant to this movie but Wanda had a deep connection with these people-mostly Steve. He and Clint listened to her through her failures and learned a lot of lessons from them, even though she is significantly more powerful than them, she still trusted them. They were also imprisoned for a while in the rift after the avengers civil war. We know that Wanda hated Tony Stark for the air raid when she was younger, but then learned in Age of Ultron that, while having huge ego problems, he isn’t that bad, plus he created Vision for her. And she also learned here about the consequences of vengeance. Wandavision and MoM (not so much WV, but definitely MoM) prove to me that those who wrote her character story in these entries did not know enough about her prior experiences in the MCU to write her storyline without huge inconsistencies. Some of arguments presented in this video *could be excused with ‘oh she was reading the darkhold’ but the fact that she turns to the dark hold is nonsensical since she learned similar lessons or even the same one in Age of Ultron and then again in WV, and now for the third fking time in a row in Madness. Sam Raimi (the director) already admitted he didn’t watch WV (lol) and probably didn’t consult help from the group in the MCU that helps keep consistency, so that made it worse, too. It seems like these multiversal level chaos powers she has has completely made her forget about her time with Steve and the Avengers, and valuable life lessons she learned with him and others were tossed away here.
Also, they had to kill her off? Pfft
And based on how Wandavision went down, it doesn't make the most amount of sense for her to go completely evil right afterwards, it makes it seem like she's a character who can't learn her lesson as she was relatively a anti-hero by the end of that show but now in this film she went full on mass murderer. And to justify all her action by saying that an evil book is making her like that is really not convincing.
I still REALLY liked the movie entirely but I the movie feels like it doesn't know completely what it wants to do.
That alternate scene where Reed Richards asks Black Bolt to tell wanda how to find her children... HOW WAS THAT NOT IN THE MOVIE?
Cuz mikey mouss is stupid.
Because Wanda just came from her children. She flew from her home to the Illuminati to find America. So she should have asked where is America and then Blackbolt "tells" her.
@don't be surprised no
Im pretty sure that was a joke video on TH-cam.
Still better than the real scene though.
The good ending
this video also kinda explains why there's such a debate between Wanda's very dubious morality. having a morally grey character is fine but having a morally grey character who plin plans for no reason is not
Wanda morality isn't dubious, its just wrong. She kidnapped and tortured an entire town because she was grieving. Then when that wasn't enough she murdered her way across the multiverse. She killed people because she was sad. That isn't morally dubious, it's psychotic.
Grey my ass shes pitch black
@@eaglefan2569
"You have her betraying Ultron because she doesn't agree with his ideals in AOU" - You mean, she betrayed Ultron because it turned out he actually wanted to destroy the world.
"You have her trying to do better in CW, failing, then just embracing Team Cap because Hawkeye says she should" - Mind you, this was after Tony had her illegally confined to the compound.
"you have her try to sacrifice Vision for the greater good in Infinity War" - That was as a last resort. She and the others had spent most of the time trying to keep Vision alive.
Vision’s absolutely weird absence creates a lot of these problems. Connect her loss of Vision with her need to reunite with an alternative version of her family, and the motivations make a lot more sense.
I don’t care if it retreads WV to a degree. That they didn’t go this route is baffling.
I wonder if they thought Vision was too hard to write into this? He just talked her out of controlling WestView and willingly let himself and the children perish. I can't imagine any version of him supporting her efforts? oh jeez no he did do some messed up shit in that What if episode...so IDK
Make her hop the multiverse to get het entire family back together, her brother, vision and the kids. Also somehow a movie with thor and wanda together makes sense. Thor also lost his entire family and half his people, he coped by getting fat. Wanda by becoming eviiiiiilllllll.
@@Rowenawhite literally in no universe does vision live lets not forget hes a product of ultron and tony
Vision is a man. Thats all ya need to know about that
@@purplebanana6420 it's not just that viz, I mean V'Shawn was a product of science avenger brosex- but that he was created with the Mind Stone
How Wanda trashed the Illuminati just convince me how keeping her powers vague is so convenient for the plot
If I was writing the Multiverse of Madness, I would've made two over all changes. The first is, instead of Wanda wanting to go to her two boys in another universe (which by the way she can solve in her universe by meeting a nice and responsible guy online to have two children with) have her wanting to get Vision back. He's dead with the mind stone destroyed, so the only way to get him back would be to take him from another universe. In addition, you're general audience knows who Vision is and knows the pain of wanting to bring someone back when they die.
It would also tie in the beginning of the movie where a friend of Strange asks him, "Was there any other way?" And to Strange there wasn't, Vision had to die to stop Thanos. This would also breed negative feelings inside Wanda against Strange because Vision clearly survived in other universes. Which would challenge Strange's belief that there was no other way.
The second thing I would change would be the personality of America Chavez. A person who grew up from an early age with no parents, no home, with the belief that she killed her own parents and having a power that lets her avoid any consequences for her actions would not be the well adjusted person we see in the movie. In short, she would be a nihilist, she wouldn't care about anyone or anything because even if something happens, who cares? She can just travel to another universe, kind of like Rick from Rick and Morty.
This could be another challenge for Strange to over come. Helping Chavez over come her nihilism through out the movie. And at the end, when Chavez decides to make Strange's universe her home and to care about those in that universe, it would make a powerful ending to the movie.
Like Yelena, America was too chill considering the circumstances of trauma and confusion, that felt weird to see and I don't like it
Good pts
Wanda already got over Vision in WandaVision
I actually liked your plot 🙌. But her loosing her family was brutal in wandavision. But her going for her boys was weak! I didn't like the fact that the only copy of 'book of vishanti' was destroyed in seconds 😑
@@IcyDiamond And instead got obsessed over her kids, which is even more weird.
As someone who watched Wandavision and loved it, honestly it seems like this movie completely ignored the final message: "i don't want to hurt people even if it means losing my family" only for Wanda to go "nevermind, I'll just kill a bunch of ppl instead
That wasn't the final message at all, the literal final message was "wait the multiverse is real and so are my kids". That literally completely logically negates everything you said lol
If you want to go deeper with the motivation you could even say Agatha corrupted her (even accidentally) by having the darkhold sitting beside her messing with her the entire time. She was already affected by it constantly, then when she actually got it it was able to show her whatever needed to be done to corrupt her further since she was already open to its influence. Then she doesn't decide against "i don't need waifu" by doing evil magic, evil magic showed it to her and she went wait wot
@@dissraps yeah but does "multiverse is real so are my kids" justified her rampages in this movie? Lol that "final message" doesn't sounds so sinister it could be achieved in more peaceful way. (And tbh, who would want to end their series with sequel-baiting note instead of real message like accepting losses and stuff)
Thing is, they didn't show Wanda transformation to evil, other than telling us "Ooh she has the darkhold and she miss her kids dearly." Which is why people saying her motivation suck, because the last time we seen her, she accepted her loss. So when she suddenly went villainy in here, it feels missing something. (You could say there's the post credit, but she seems harmless in there compared to in this movie.)
Ive heard that WV and MVoM were basically filmed at the same time. So tge MVoM team thought WV was a villian origin story when it was actualy a redemption story about dealing with grief
I don’t think that was the final message. Wanda still wanted to hurt someone and did even after “learning her lesson.”
You summed up how I feel about this movie:
“Actions done out of connivence for the plot”.
There’s so many actions in the plot that, while cool to watch, completely fall apart if you think about it too long. You highlighted it perfectly when talking about Wanda not killing strange despite slaughtering everyone and their brother
It’s so bad that the movie doesn’t even follow its own internal logic.
Marvel treats alternative universes like alternative timelines. Marvel’s what if is literally “what would happen if we changed this in the timeline” (aka an alternative timeline). But then turns around and shows off a paint universe while strange and america are falling through universes. This doesn’t make sense because no matter what you change in the timeline, at no point would everyone become sentient paint (unless you REALLY wanna stretch). That is FUNDAMENTALLY an alternative universe where the laws of physics are different. Think of Alt universes being the canvas and alt timelines being what you draw. The type of canvas will inherently effect what you can draw on it.
And for a much less physics based reason, the book of bull-shitty is conveniently only in 1 single universe (and is a useless plot mcguffin that could have been changed with a magic poop scrubber and it wouldn’t have changed its effectiveness and roll in the story) yet the dark hole is in every universe. I don’t need to explain how it’s physically impossible to say that there is only one in an infinite amount of universes. It’s like saying guns exist in every universe but bullet proof vests in only 1. It doesn’t make any sense unless it’s to add stakes to the plot
I agree with you. To be honest I watched this movie with the memories from watching What if in my head. I had the same confusion too. In no point in time where things could have gone wrong to have paint universe or extremely different realities like that.
But this was how I interpret it. So the big multiverse is like universe A,B,C,D to infinite. But within each universe there is also an infinite set of choice varied universes.
So like universe A.1,A.2,A.3, etc meaning the “what if” series only happened within the universe A.
for example A.1 where our mcu universe is.
But on A.2 doctor strange car crash didnt happen .
A.3 is where the zombie virus happened.
However in this movie they are travelling across a totally unique branches of universes like A,B,C,D
“..the dark hole is in every universe” is quite a profound innuendo
> no matter what you change in the timeline, at no point would everyone become sentient paint
"Now, reality can be whatever I want"
@@chansoe101 that’s actually a lot like my own multiversal theory (I say “my own” when it reality it’s not really complex and I probably wasn’t the first to think of it)
I think about it almost like a graph with X, Y, Z coordinates for locating which spot in space time you’re at. To go back to my canvas example you have universes as the canvases, timelines as the possible shapes, and then dimensions as the colors. So I’m terms of the graph, just like you said, it would be like (5, 8, 23). That being universe 5, timeline 8, dimension 23. Or for you E.8.(what ever you’d use for dimensions)
And then I’d like to believe in the terminator 1&2 and Harry Potter verses of time travel where the timeline is 1 big loop and there’s no changing it. A form of scientific fate if you will. Just like in terminator how John Conner caused himself to be born and the T800 & Sarah Conner accidentally led to the creation of sky net. I’m not going to go into the full extent of theory here because this comment is already long enough and I have a lot of ideas that I’d love to share with you because you seemed to have thought about this even just a little bit (shows how big of a nerd I am). Just note that’s how I believe to look at it, and then from that, dragon ball Z (not super, it over complicates it too much) had an amazing look on alternative timelines playing a roll in time travel. There the character that did it jumped to an alternate timeline instead of up and down his own and after training and battling in the other timeline, he went back to his own around the time that he left and defeated the threat there.
A lot of people would think that would limit story telling and I think you could tell an amazing story of a very arrogant time traveler going to the future in a war to see who wins only to find that the whole planet gets destroyed. This causes to to fall into despair, but at the end of the story he figures out that in other universes his side won the war had he put forth the effort to properly lead. Of course he didn’t lead because he had become cynical due to seeing his future, and had he not tried to take the easy way out of just seeing if they win in the future, he could have saved it. He took the easy way out due to hubris and led to the damnation of his world.
Or they could have completely did MoM differently and just had Steven get drug into America’s accidental universe hoping and the plot motivation being to get home. Along the way they find people and sorcerers who would love to take her power for multiversal imperialism. Strange could take her power and get home but of course that would kill her. So that leaves a bit of tension between them. As they keep accidentally hoping from place to place they would come to sinister strange at the end of the movie who would be the living embodiment of what happens if Steven would get stuck in a hellish universe/dimension/timeline. So now america has to hurry and figure out her powers as the only man she can sort of trust is trying his best to fiend of the living embodiment of what happens if they can’t get out. With america randomly hitting different points on the multiverse graph, the final battle could be bouncing between insanity of the different universes as strange desperately fights. Constantly changing the physics and terrain on top of the crazy “what ever the plot needs” type of magic. There is so much potential
@@collin4555 now im imagining thanos in that universe getting all 6 stones just so he can turn the entire universe into sentient paint
Felmento could have also added,
1. Why is it called Doctor Strange : MoM and not Scarlet Witch : MoM?
2. Why didn't the new vision (cum man) not appear in this?
3. Why didn't strange incapacitate her at any time in the movie like Wong previously did with Cull Obsidian, of Black Order?
4. Why didn't strange wipe her memory like he did to spiderman? I imagine Wanda would have wanted the same too, right?
She is the MoM
I feel like wanda Wasn’t hunting for Vis because she knows that she will probably see him again (said when they last saw in WV)
I was expecting this movie to be something else, like Dr Strange battling some extradimensional abomination in another plane of existance, a lot of surreal scenery and psychedelic music. A nice acid trip.
Yes! I loved the beginning of the first Dr Strange movie. Can’t remember exactly what happened, but that fight was so crazy and exciting to watch. I would’ve enjoyed this movie much more if there were more fight scenes similar to the first movie
I remember watching 90's Spider Man. Cool thing about this show is that we saw other character like Blade, X-Men, Fantastic Four, Iron Man and even Doctor fucking Strange. From what I remember Peter's girlfriend was abducted by a cult. Later he met Doctor Strange and even fought "in another plane of existence" because he helped our old good doctor.
Here is beginning for this episode th-cam.com/video/JYEF0rs9YlM/w-d-xo.html
We don't get fun stuff like this anymore. We just get crap. Female characters can't be simple villains. They have "tragic" backstory. Someone who could have tried to create a life herself and make her dreams come true instead chose to make those dream to be a reality by force.
First movie was a mix of good actors, ideas and talent which helped creating it. Magic looked unique and interesting. It was like Inception but with magic.
Lol same. I saw them crossing the multiverse in the trailer n I was like ooooh. I gotta see this in the movies. Trippy like the first one but nope
@@mynameisbetty1767 Most of the first movie was pretty conventional, with boring magic like using it as a shield. Dormammu scenes in another dimension were great but I wished for more. It was definitely a better movie.
for that at least we got everything everywhere all at once
aka the one multiverse movie that did not disappoint this year
Thing is, the justification isn't that the boys might get sick, not the main one. They quickly mention that if you spend too long outside your universe and inside another universe then those universes "collide" and end. It is never mentioned in the film "we have to stop her because she might cause the universes to collapse and go on a Rick Sanchez streak of jumping to the next unbothered universe", it's just casually mentioned as if it was less about the plot and more about going "um actually" on the viewers
Thats right, she should have said this as a response to wong. The justification that they may get sick is a cop out, a solid reason is that if she exists in another universe it will cause them to collapse and it will endanger her boys.
@@michaelpapageorgious5053 that make wonder why didn’t reed tell wanda about the incursion that happen if she keep dreamwalking and dangering her boys and if she doesn’t believe him, he could have tell her to read his mind to know the truth, why hell didn’t he do that?
@@aerithroses2683 Probably because he thought that the death threat of using Black Bolt would work on a literal reality warper.
@@starkiller1289 the problem they don’t know that Wanda has reality powers they thought she was a simple witch and they could have threat her without revealing their big trump card
Wanda and “her boys” would also be better if they emphasised how alone she felt at the start and why she wants to find a universe where she has a family and is happy
true but the waking up alone was hilarious
Have you watched Wandavision?
Honestly this film should’ve had Nightmare (who was originally supposed to be the villain of the film) as the villain. The whole Dreamwalking and the multiverse being compared to dream really works and they could’ve easily had Wanda as a side character with her own goals that conflicts with Strange’s while they tackle on Nightmare.
We can’t even get mad that our expectations were high. Marvel set us up for failure with this movie. The title is Multiverse of Madness but it was Wanda causing the madness. Then they give us Loki, What if and Spider-Man No Way Home. We are thinking those events will cause the multiverse to be unstable and Dr Strange will have to deal with the repercussions of that but that wasn’t the case
This movie feels like two completely different stories trying to be one single cohesive thing at the same time. On one side you got Wanda as a scary-looking villain with Sam Raimi's horror background, on the other you got Doctor Strange's plot with the MCU reference and toy machine. Honestly, this would've been far better developed as a longer series instead of a movie or if you separated the plots altogether.
Wanda's motivation is solid, but her turn into full mustache twirling villain is too sudden. She has been a villain in the comics in the past, but usually a reluctant one, born out of desperation and sorrow. This movie tries to imply that but at the same time having her say such cliché villain one-liners and not care about collateral damage at all. Unlike WandaVision, here she's not broken, she chooses to hurt and kill.
Sure, she just wants her children back, but there's no reason to do what she does. In fact, the reason the movie gives us of her not seeking an universe where her chidren lost their mother is the most asinine thing ever, as if the writers knew they didn't have any way of fusing the multiverse plot with her grief. "Oh I need the power forever in case they die so I can have infinite backup children."
Honestly, I think Marvel pulled the "hero turned villain" twist way to early, especially now that Disney got the X-Men back. This could've been a movie about Strange confronting himself and his hubris, while saving Wanda for an eventual House of M, which could even serve to introduce mutants in the MCU.
The way Multiverse of Madness turned out is a shallow attempt to combine both plots. It's teased that Strange is the "greatest threat to the multiverse" yet the movie never shows this and he barely confronts himself. There's no payoff for the Mordo post-credits scene at the end of the previous movie. Heck, Strange doesn't even confront the Illuminati besides a few words. And Wanda is just a caricature of herself, playing a cookie-cutter revenge villain with lines that feel like they were written for the Punisher.
I feel bad for Patrick Stewart in what's now probably his last Xavier role just to appear for 5 minutes and die a pathetic death for a quick easter egg. At least Days of Future Past gave the older cast a proper send-off.
@@PanelVulture It's a shame. And a waste of Sam Raimi, who could've done a really great horror Marvel movie. You can feel the few moments he had more creative control over the script when the tone shifts completely and you think you're actually watching an interesting thriller and not this convoluted inception of plots and setups for future movies.
I disagree on Wanda - MCU Wanda has always been an evil bitch - Age of Ultron shows that. And then Wanda Vision backs it up. Really I'm glad they stopped pretending and just let her be the villain she never repented from being in the first place.
@@nopinout4651 if that's the logic then alot of heroes are villains
The movie blatantly stated why Wanda can’t just go to another universe that would be able to have her kids again, incursions. Literally the end credits scene shows this.
@@thetf8142 why would evil Wanda care about an incursion?
I was trying to figure out why I didn't feel any real terror from Wanda, even though she's supposed to be one of the scariest creatures in the multiverse. This video totally explains why I could never buy her as a legitimate antagonist.
Compare this to Homelander. He's the ultimate power in that universe, he's completely unstable, and every scene he's in I'm filled with dread and terror. But with Wanda, nothing
bc she's mommy wanda 🥰🥰
Albeit both being villains. They don't and shouldn't have that much in common. They have vastly different motives and that's why the behave in a different manner. Homelander is scary because you never know his next move and he just wants to have the absolute power. That's something Wanda doesn't necessarily does and want.
@@atdubya9576 Because they couldn't. Raimi had to get rid of a lot of things because Disney considered they were too dark and they wanted their "Marvel formula" to stay the same. Even the ending was completely changed.
Soldier Boy scares me more now
"How is that fair?" "Wanda, Strange fucked up accidentally but made it right, YOU are actively destroying the multiverse because you're having a hissy fit over two non existant children and a sex toy"
I really feel like this movie should've been about Doctor Strange and Wanda teaming up to stop a evil Strange (Just like what the marketing made it out to be). Then you could have Wanda use the book more throughout the movie and see her start to corrupt, then the next movie could be the Strange vs Wanda movie cause then Wanda's motivations would be fully developed from the previous movie and fully explained visually instead of it feeling kinda forced and out of nowhere.
You should say it to the dr strange 2 writer...i love raimi directing but why i feels like the movie is about wanda instead of dr strange and i love your version of story that gives more depth and weight..because itss should be a sentimental emotional element about wanda and her children but instead i feels so annoying because its can be better...
yees
That would have been pretty interesting to see
This is a way better idea. And Wanda would have been given time to explain to Strange(and the audience) what happened in WandaVision.
Basically Two-Face’s arc in TDK.
@@errwhattheflip 💯💯💯
How about this: The movie opens with Wanda constantly dreamwalking to different universes to be with her kids, causing countless incursions along the way. So she is constantly dreamwalking from universe to universe. She is hooked on this, as you mentioned before. She finds out about America and realises the only way to truly be with her kids is to take America's power and become the only version of herself inorder to entirely stay in another universe without causing incursions. It's not perfect, but I feel would make for a better movie.
Add that, one of the incursion killed her boys in her sight
@@shre6619 Yeah, maybe even happened a few times, leading to this last desperate act. Having to constantly say goodbye to her boys, over and over again, slowly driving her to madness.
haha perfect, just realized fans can write better scripts than actual movie writers
it would work if they arent going to use wanda again in the mcu.
I dig this script better than the official one
The main issue of Multiverse of Madness is both the story itself and how it was told. The plot lacked personal stakes, deaths are trivialized, and has so many premises that we are just forced to accept even though they don't make sense. Dr. Strange should have had an arc in this film, instead Wanda takes center stage with her quest to get children from an alternate self which isn't strong enough to carry the film (especially if you watched WandaVision). Dr. Strange himself doesn't really seem to care about anything in the film, except when it comes to matters with Christine - which were the only points in the film that seemed to have some sort of personal stakes. He doesn't even acknowledge the gruesome death of his alternative self and choosing instead to crack jokes about it. I half-expect Wong to get killed and Dr. Strange will only feel slightly inconvenienced for a second or two. If Dr. Strange doesn't feel like anything in the film matters, neither will the audience. The film is devoid of an emotional narrative, choosing instead to hop from one plot point to another. The What If Strange Supreme had a much compelling story and better story telling. Sam Raimi dropped the ball on this one.
It wasn't just Raimi, the studio played a role in this hot mess as well
This, it seemed pretty clear Strange didn't care; it was all a chore for him.
The script was trash. “Illumi-whati?!” 😂😂😂
I think you nailed it.
Strange had a great arc. He finally let go of christine.
Dr.Strange shouldn’t be the side character in his own movie, he should be the main focus of his own movie. Dr.Strange was the main focus of his first film despite the narrative of the antagonist in it not being completely connected to him and he’s the one who solves the problem at the end of the first film. In multiverse of madness he is not the main focus of his sequel which is gonna make audiences unsatisfied as its a Dr.Strange movie. I get your argument for Pirates of The Caribbean & Jack Sparrow but Jack Sparrow wasn’t the main focus of pirates he was a secondary focus, Dr.Strange is the main focus of his own original film and as his popularity among MCU fans has grown if you want to make a successful Dr.Strange movie Dr.Strange needs to be the main focus otherwise audiences will feel like they’re being ripped off. This is why you have people saying the first film was better then the sequel when looking back at it because since the character’s popularity has grown people are going to look back to the film that primarily focuses on him and expect more content that primarily focuses on Dr.Strange as a character. The trailer for MOM literally puts most of the focus on Dr.Strange with some of the focus on Wanda & barely any focus on America Chavez yet Dr.Strange is the character playing the smallest role in his own movie with Wanda & America being the primary focuses of his film compared to him. Han Solo is a popular side character/secondary character but if you made a movie about Han Solo and he’s not the main focus of the plot people are gonna not like the movie as much. This is part of what went into criticisms of Solo A Star Wars Story that a film about Han Solo’s origins didn’t mainly focus on Han Solo that much in the overall plot. This is also probably why The Pirates films after three didn’t do their best. People likely expect Jack Sparrow on another Pirates Adventure with many other Pirates playing prominent roles along side him instead of a movie with Jack Sparrow as the main focus in the pirates world but that’s what they got. If four & five were actually Jack Sparrow spin off pirates movies with some better execution in their concepts they may have been better received.
Dr.Strange is all being downgraded power wise as each MCU film is made.
…SPOILERS FOR PHASE 4 OF THE MCU…
Originally he understood what the multiverse was in his first film because he was taught to draw the power of his energy from it to make magic/spells and how to travel through it with the sling ring, now in MOM when meeting her, Dr.Strange & Wong are shocked that America Chavez can travel throughout The Multiverse like it was never possible before. He was shocked to find out the dark hold wasn’t really just a myth and was true despite his introduction into the mystic arts by the ancient one in the first film & the fact that Wong knew about it from a book given to those who become sorcerer supreme while funny contradicts the fact that Dr.Strange studies lots of knowledge to become a sorcerer let alone Sorcerer Supreme and likely would have knew and studied that book Wong was referring to in order to protect the earth from mystical threats which is his job. On top of that in No away Home Dr.Strange was saying The Multiverse is a concept of which we know frighteningly little when he was literally taught about the multiverse throughout the first film on how to use it for magic and travel through it in the arts of mysticism.
You can’t be Sorcerer Supreme without understanding the multiverse. I love NWH & MOM is a mixed bag for me but they both contradict Dr.Strange’s power & knowledge as The Sorcerer Supreme in most Marvel content and the first Dr.Strange film within The MCU. Why is he being downplayed, you don’t simplify a character like Dr.Strange, he is literally made to be a complex character from his initial run in the early comics by Steve Ditko & Stan Lee.
He wasn’t the “side character” at all within his own film, he was just the main character while wanda was the main villain who gets fleshed out and have the plot be about just like most other superhero stories and movies do as well!
The problem with Dr Strange is the same as Flash. If you fully flesh out his powers there's barely any threat to them, they are too powerful. Which is sad bc i love Dr strange and Sam Raimi and wanted to see him do more:(
@@NoNono-o3h There is an actual solution to this. Use the powerful complex villains in Dr.Strange’s comics for his movies. Same for Flash. The First Dr.Strange film did this with Dormarmu. This isn’t impossible. They were intentionally simplifying a complex character and his complex foes which made the film generic and uninteresting overall. Dr.Strange 1 really works for many reasons but one of the big ones was because you were learning more about Marvel lore. Your brain was being challenged, your perception of reality was questioned. Dr.Strange 1 was complicated in its concepts which made it interesting. It mystified concepts like mystic magic, The Multiverse, and the cosmos with intrigue, It’s sequel takes these complex concepts and makes them generic lines for dumb humor. It simplifies everything and as a result no one is that curious. People went into this film expecting a horror movie of mystical proportion and instead got a mess with mid humor, generic takes on complex concepts, characters contradicted for the sake of the plot , & a film that doesn’t even mainly focus on its title character. This honestly fits better as a Wanda movie since she gets the main emotional beats out of everyone in the film. Even America gets more of an Arc then Strange and her arc is very generic with little challenge or growth outside of believing in herself. Dr.Strange’s arc seems to be not to take risks against nature with sorcery and trusting others something that the first film was building up but this film ruins because he doesn’t actually face a true consequence for making risky decisions with sorcery.
This helped me realize something. They say plot stems from a character's actions in dealing with a problem. But when the character's choices are inconsistent or dumb, it makes it look like the writer's put the plot before the characters.
Yahtzee!
Wanda: Where are my kids
Reed: Black Bolt, tell her where they are
This scene will ALWAYS be a forced way to make the most manipulable character in the multiverse a threat
Would killing 838 Wanda while 616 is dreamwalking, actually kill the Scarlett Witch? Or could she have just reanimated the corpse?
@@rhiannongreen2642 if that happened, then they would really show what a threat she is more naturally, she got outplayed, but because she is powerful, she simply revived like black bolts voice was nothing
@@ehoraida5900 that still wouldn't have worked cs one thing about wanda that they kept in the MCU is that she can read minds and was doing so the whole time which is how she was able to kill professor x bc mind you our wanda doesn't know him but before he even got in her head she had read his and knew what he was planning
@@japannsworldd Wanda isn't reading minds the whole time, if she was she wouldn't have needed Wong's help to find the Darkhold and she would have known where it was from the start.
@@hg.c7987i never said she was when she was talking to wong i said when she was in the illuminati she was
Definitely touched on my biggest issue with the movie. Wanda never feels like the big bad Villain like it was claimed and if you didn't see Wandavision...you go in like wtf. On the Mordo explaining dream walking, the initial opening scene was supposed to be Mordo confronting Wanda for dream walking and she offs his head
That opening would have been so much better because it actually pays off the post credits scene of the first movie. You know, the one that set up a plot that was completely ignored in MoM.
Here’s the easiest rewrite to fix those issues:
Wanda starts as an ally, asking for America to send her to another universe to be with her children. America explains that she can’t control the powers, and Wanda accepts this, waiting and trying to help her. As the days keeps going, and she keeps dream walking and getting closer to her kids, she gets impatient. Eventually, she reads how to take other’s powers from the dark hold, and decides to take America’s powers because she refuses to wait any longer.
It’s still not a GREAT reason, but it’s more understandable than “what if my kids get sick?”
I just watched this movie for the first time yesterday, good timing! Parts of the movie had me, and then others would just lose me again right away. Wanda is, as you've pointed out, the biggest problem. Even having watched (and enjoyed) Wandavision her whole character seems wrong. The point of the ending of Wandavision was that she had to let her (fake) children go. Letting them go was part of her arc. And now she's just obsessed with them. Honestly I think watching Wandavision just makes this film make even less sense. I get she wasn't exactly redeemed by the end of the show (she still fucked over and tormented an entire town and hasn't made amends) but for her to go full blown killer from there just feels like a very jarring, sudden change. I get Emilia Clarke in GoT S8 vibes from Olson as well- I think in her head the character is in a very different place and she doesn't get what the script is doing with her character. It's hard to quantify but the performance just feels off.
Just like i thought, a straight FAILURE.
I won the bet with my brother 😁
I guess you habe not seen the aftercredit scene in wandavision
@@hektorius the agtercredit scene is to vauge imo its Not a justification for wanda to Go batshit crazy. The Movie just simply misses the opportunity to establish why she changed That much suddenly
that is what you get with becoming woke.. dr strange is not the star of his own movie.. he does not defeat wanda.. america does..
captain america is a woman but captain marvel does not become a man but a black woman... lol
@@hektorius - I was waiting fo that bit of lore and I was so f***ing pissed when they explained the concept of dreamwalking and I realized that the entire Wandavision experience was a waste of time. (If the Wanda pulling the strings didn't learn anything from the Wanda that was in the story then it was all worthless. They managed to make Wandavison both integral to the movie and also useless.)
- I unsubbed from D+ after that, they will waste my time no more!
Instead of the whole "What if they die of illness" point, what they should've done is reinforce the whole *"If you travel to another universe, you risk that universe colliding with your own"* thing. Make that the main plot. That Wanda wants to force America to send her to a universe where she can be with her kids. But it comes at the cost of two universes being destroyed.
Then when a future marvel movie comes alone and there is multiverse team up it would be hard to pull off if this restriction are already imposed
@@darrenjacob4685 Not really. The MCU have established that the multiverse is infinite. No matter how many universes may be destroyed, there will still be many others
except that won't make sense because of What if. black widow basically now lives in another universe there
@@MagicalArtist7 Then why did they introduce that plot point in this damn movie to even begin with
@@sarmadhabibkhan3036 because of bad writing of course
For the first time, your main point clicked for me. You said "slave-like construct of the plot". I finally understood what you meant. Wanda only does certain things because the story needs to continue, while a good story doesn't know its a story, so it is driven by real motivation.