I miss Sandy when he’s not on the videos, but these guys are great, and I guess it’s good to mix it up. They both seem very comfortable on camera, and are passing the baton in a way that suggests good direction. Keep up the great work guys.
Goodness, gracious... part 1 and 2 were extremely educational. Dozens of little words and phrases you guys use that kick off a googling storm on my end. Thanks deeply.
My 1986 BMW 635 has extrusions just like that to retain the door seals. They are also pillar-less doors. The extrusions run along the top edge of the windows to the mirror instead of the trailing edge.
As the owner of a 2022 MY, the Munro videos are always amazingly informative and helpful. Before you started producing these I couldn't imagine being excited to see a "body in white", or "Model XXX Undercarriage" video pop up in my feed. Thank you for doing what you do!
For me this video part 2 is even better than part 1. I like the fact that Munro Live is bringing on more presenters, good move. You guys are much better at explaining features and their benefits than other channels.
As an owner of a 2014 Model S P85 and having engineered in big auto for 44 years I just love the detail insight from Jordan and Kevin as sad to say Ive removed almost all the panels from my car over the years to see what goes on. Its amazing to see the changes and whats not changed. The oblong duel HVAC rear vents are still there, I guess they have changed the design of the moulded inserts to ensure water does not flow in under certain conditions resulting in wet flooring in the under truck area. I stuck plastic guides that diverted water from the rear lamp housings and drainage gullies on my 2012 designed car.
To be honest I prefer more of Munro's engineering team videos such as this one than Sandy's videos, these are more technical and they go for far more details.
Having spent a lot of time repairing panels that came loose because of spot welds in the wrong location or cold welds combined with the difficulty getting corrosion inhibitor on to the inside of those areas after the repaired are done. I see a much bigger problem with the execution of the door ring welds . You did a good job pointing out problems with this except you left out the fact that the distance between the spot weld and the fold is a factor in the strength of the structure. I have seen cracking alone the edge of the line of welds because they wear too far from the fold allowing the panels to flex and fatigue the metal.
Love that the whole team is contributing to the content. It gives Sandy some rest and stardom to the rest if the team so Sandy can take it easy at gatherings.
I think that the 3mm gap between the pillar and the crosscar extrusions is simply that the pillar needs to receive impact loads, which will include bending inward somewhat, before involving the extrusion and battery pack. There's a threshold of impact forces below which you don't want to involve the interior.
I love those deep dive videos. It's amazing to see also how much knowledge goes into designing a car. You're real experts I could listen to all the time!
I find your analysis of vehicles fascinating; keep doing them! Incidentally "Tumble Home" is a term first used on ancient wooden warships of the British Royal Navy. Also the originator of "Mass Production" in the making of pulley blocks at RN dockyards.🤫😃
If castings can meet side crumple zone requirements, that would be a good way to handle the complex stiffness demands of the B-pillar. Great video, really informative and unhurried in its presentation - thanks for the great content.
I have a 2007 Fiat. The basic structure is strong and the under-dash reinforcement frame is tremendous. BUT hidden metal is not deburred. That dash frame is not exposed to users, but it’s like razor blades under the dash plastic
please pass heartfelt thanks along to Sandy for signing up Munro to invest in and help Aptera become successful. I am confident it is going to become one of the most consequential influences on the redesign of personal transportation around electric drivetrains. The public may never come to know it, but we will all be in your debt when that journey is complete.
So much esoteric knowledge in one room! Thanks guys. Just a question. There is a ‘tool’ on the market that helps stop movement of the firewall where the brake master cylinder is located. The video for this tool shows the cylinder moving when you press upon the brake firmly. Is this a known issue with many manufacturers or just Tesla?
Guys how about a Body In White 3 where you use Finite Element Analysis diagrams/animations to explain how your industry designs and accounts for structural conditions. PS very impressed with you presentation.
Great as always guys. Very astute. This request is way off topic, but I'll submit it anyway. I have been going down a Henry Ford rabbit hole and found some of the detailing and reasoning behind the designs so captivating. I would love to hear Sandy and knowledgeable friends/colleagues share thoughts on the engineering and foresight that was needed to create the Model T and Model A. The magneto in the T is a wonderful piece of tech. The fact that 'gravity feed' and 'splash' were there before the pumps. The transmission break, its physical flexibility, vanadium steel, the reverse pedal so you could rock it back and forth to get out of a hole etc. I heard that the car model T was also seen as a machine to help the environment, as there was so much horse manure to deal with, that the farmers didn't even want it. 15 million model Ts made with (apparently) around 1 in 250 still with us. Please consider organizing an impromptu round table with photos of certain details as props for discussion, It could be framed as a toast to ICE vehicles and their cultural significance, as we welcome the new era of BEVs. Thanks again for all of your hard work at Munro. The content and analysis genuinely inspires me to work harder in my own unrelated career and in life in general. The video with Al Wagner toughed on the overall history (which was great), I'd personally love a dive into the Model T. Sorry if this is way out of left field, I would just love their take on vanadium Cheers!
I’m with you guys on the door ring spot welds. I commend the Tesla engineers and designers for having the courage for making a narrow flange, but on the other hand, those welds look less than perfect. I’m not a manufacturing engineer; I presume the welds are done with automation. It would be interesting to know what the variables are that limit the ability to place the welds accurately and with proper quality. I would think Tesla has access to the same robots that Ford does, so what is it that allows Ford to do a better execution on the Mach E?
The welding tool is heavy and there is a limit to how stiff you can make the robot arm. The tip will always wiggle a little as you stop the movement to pinch the part. Eventually you can dial this out with some programming.
I recall working at Dodge Truck 40 yrs. Ago; Spotwelding truck body panels be hand. The sparks were special when the robotic arm double tapped, sending them beneath the bibs of our aprons. Was the top weld in the door frame done by the Mechanical Bob double tapping, or a man made repair? Why not employ lighter weight Polymers 🤔 for that?
Looks like the cowl had a pice of tape on it that at one time had a bolt from the I.P. Going through it. On the extra metal on the B-pillar remember on earlier versions there was a wind noise, so my guess this filled that void that is created the faster you go
I saw them show that the door mounts are bare metal but didn't hear a reason why. Why put the doors on, paint dip, then remove the doors for further assembly, just to put them back on later - instead of painting the doors separately and only install them once? Is the bare metal connection needed for tolerancing, grounding, some other requirement? There must be a reason to go through the extra effort.
Great video, love the detailed explanations and insight into car engineering! One question: there doesn't seem to be any holes or access panels in the rear shock towers, they're completely enclosed. So how are the top of the shocks attached to the body? From below?
1:00 - Isn't that hole used for attaching the Instrument panel? Obviously the IP wasn't attached when the body was being painted, so it would've been something else then..
It's refreshing to witness these 2 N. American engineers spitting out measurements in S. I. units. Furthermore, they seem to prefer the smaller (millimeter) over the larger (cm) of which (cm) is favored in Europe -but somewhat less precise. I'm of the mind that metrification IS occurring in the US, it's just happening from the bottom up instead of the top down (mandated). It started with the sciences & coke bottles in the 70's & will continue on until fully incorporated into everyday vernacular. That will take decades more as even the Brits still measure their road distances in miles.
Thanks for the detailed look at how Tesla and auto manufacturers in general approach and execute vehicle manufacture. It helps me be more tolerant of idiosyncratic annoyances I might experience with my car. Jess
Question. Was this a prototype castoff? Would like to know from start to finish how you acquired this sample. If it wasn't taken from an active production line the observations are suspect. Like the content but you need to provide more context.
Has Munro, Assoc commented on the Tesla glass roofs? I've got a Model Y, normally I love looking at the stars, up at buildings through a 'moon' roof... But the Tesla glass roof just seems to bring in a lot of heat, is fragile. It has to be tinted which lowers it's use as a window. I've had the roof rack - I removed it. I don't want to risk carry my kayak. If I tried putting my kayak on that rack and it slipped... could be very expensive. I've never actually seen much of anything through that glass roof (and I like to sleep in the back. What I remember most is a street light.) It seems to add excess weight, no strength, possible leaks (My FSD stopped working for a day after I removed the rack and a neighbor hosed down my car. I've since resealed the areas the rack installed with black silicone caulking.)
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom wrong!!!! It’s not even close to beeing stronger to a conventional roof lol…. A conventional roof can be easily modified to install all kinds of features…. Not worry about glass breaking
As a new owner of a 2022 model s plaid, some of the things you point out I can see on my own vehicle. Case in point the seats, the rear seats new designs allow for a bad squeak and it was partially the same noise (along with the wind noise) that Sandy complained about. Great work guys keep it up!
Another awesome video, love the depth you both offer. At the end some overall thoughts on is this a great good or crap body in white given that it is the fastest production car in the world? would be the 'opinion' that is a little lacking from the nice technical detail.
My physics teacher said a CPU designer has two - maybe three chips in their career and that's it. Maybe they move on to memory. Cell phones seem more like cars , where someone might leave and build a clone from a previous generation.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I miss Sandy when he’s not on the videos, but these guys are great, and I guess it’s good to mix it up. They both seem very comfortable on camera, and are passing the baton in a way that suggests good direction. Keep up the great work guys.
Goodness, gracious... part 1 and 2 were extremely educational. Dozens of little words and phrases you guys use that kick off a googling storm on my end. Thanks deeply.
Munro has hired excellent automotive structural engineers! Thank you for the analysis!
My 1986 BMW 635 has extrusions just like that to retain the door seals. They are also pillar-less doors. The extrusions run along the top edge of the windows to the mirror instead of the trailing edge.
As the owner of a 2022 MY, the Munro videos are always amazingly informative and helpful. Before you started producing these I couldn't imagine being excited to see a "body in white", or "Model XXX Undercarriage" video pop up in my feed. Thank you for doing what you do!
Thanks Andrew! The Munro Live team strives to ensure each video brings value to the viewers.
I feel the same way as a non car guy i love these.
@@xxxslappyxxx Totally agree. Only this channel gets me interested in this material.
For me this video part 2 is even better than part 1. I like the fact that Munro Live is bringing on more presenters, good move. You guys are much better at explaining features and their benefits than other channels.
I always learn so much from every video I watch here. thanks guys.
Thanks for watching, Jeff!
As an owner of a 2014 Model S P85 and having engineered in big auto for 44 years I just love the detail insight from Jordan and Kevin as sad to say Ive removed almost all the panels from my car over the years to see what goes on. Its amazing to see the changes and whats not changed. The oblong duel HVAC rear vents are still there, I guess they have changed the design of the moulded inserts to ensure water does not flow in under certain conditions resulting in wet flooring in the under truck area. I stuck plastic guides that diverted water from the rear lamp housings and drainage gullies on my 2012 designed car.
Would you give us a photo of what exactly you are talking about and what you have done, thanks.
Love it! Amazing to be a lifelong motorsports enthusiast and realize how little I understand vehicle engineering. Much appreciate getting a glimpse.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This body manufacturing video is...riveting. Job weldin' guys! Great to see your stamping of approval on the vehicle design.
give it a Munro score! .......out of 10
To be honest I prefer more of Munro's engineering team videos such as this one than Sandy's videos, these are more technical and they go for far more details.
Having spent a lot of time repairing panels that came loose because of spot welds in the wrong location or cold welds combined with the difficulty getting corrosion inhibitor on to the inside of those areas after the repaired are done. I see a much bigger problem with the execution of the door ring welds . You did a good job pointing out problems with this except you left out the fact that the distance between the spot weld and the fold is a factor in the strength of the structure. I have seen cracking alone the edge of the line of welds because they wear too far from the fold allowing the panels to flex and fatigue the metal.
That separate quarter panel also makes replacement of the panel much simpler and a better repair than the typical sectioning of a uniside.
Love that the whole team is contributing to the content. It gives Sandy some rest and stardom to the rest if the team so Sandy can take it easy at gatherings.
I think that the 3mm gap between the pillar and the crosscar extrusions is simply that the pillar needs to receive impact loads, which will include bending inward somewhat, before involving the extrusion and battery pack. There's a threshold of impact forces below which you don't want to involve the interior.
I love those deep dive videos. It's amazing to see also how much knowledge goes into designing a car. You're real experts I could listen to all the time!
I find your analysis of vehicles fascinating; keep doing them! Incidentally "Tumble Home" is a term first used on ancient wooden warships of the British Royal Navy. Also the originator of "Mass Production" in the making of pulley blocks at RN dockyards.🤫😃
Can hardly wait to see the German precision on Tesla bodies!
It isn't depending on German precision. It's a problem of QM starting with the design.
@@EliasHansenu7f it’s also a problem of tesla quality control or more precisely the lack of it!
The german build Teslas has even worse build quality.
Thanks for the impartial, as well as detailed analysis. FYI, "tumble home" is a nautical architectural term.
Thanks for sharing that. Keep the beams high and your powder dry Captain. 👍
Good video as always. Can't wait to see the video where you put it back together!
We're lucky to have you. Where else do you find this content? Fantastic learning opportunity.
If castings can meet side crumple zone requirements, that would be a good way to handle the complex stiffness demands of the B-pillar. Great video, really informative and unhurried in its presentation - thanks for the great content.
Great analysis guys.thank you!
Excellent work. Thank you
I have a 2007 Fiat. The basic structure is strong and the under-dash reinforcement frame is tremendous. BUT hidden metal is not deburred. That dash frame is not exposed to users, but it’s like razor blades under the dash plastic
Hahaha! I have a 1970 Porsche 914 whose body was made by Karmann and it's the same under the dash.
Love the detail and expertise, thanks.
please pass heartfelt thanks along to Sandy for signing up Munro to invest in and help Aptera become successful. I am confident it is going to become one of the most consequential influences on the redesign of personal transportation around electric drivetrains. The public may never come to know it, but we will all be in your debt when that journey is complete.
B-post extrusions are panic patch work for roof crush. Thanks for that video, very interesting
Love the dialog at 11:24 weighing the pros and cons of tailor welding.
Amazing content as always!!
Tumblehome is also a nautical term for hull shape, just FYI.
There is still a lot of complexity in such biw
So many panels and added structures
The A-team did it again😜. Nice explanation from the next gen's over at Munro and associates 👍
As someone once said, "bloody hell, cars are complicated".
Actually I think that was me, after a Munro video.
Thank you guys I love these.
Love these 2 😎 💪🏻💪🏻
It bis incredible all the compromises that are needed to build a modern vehicle. Does the gigapress mitigated some of the issues involved.
I would like to know how they prevent galvanic reactions when they are mixing aluminum and steel like that.
So much esoteric knowledge in one room! Thanks guys. Just a question. There is a ‘tool’ on the market that helps stop movement of the firewall where the brake master cylinder is located. The video for this tool shows the cylinder moving when you press upon the brake firmly. Is this a known issue with many manufacturers or just Tesla?
Guys how about a Body In White 3 where you use Finite Element Analysis diagrams/animations to explain how your industry designs and accounts for structural conditions. PS very impressed with you presentation.
Good video guys. Sandy better up his game in the next one if he wants to keep up with you.
Great as always guys. Very astute. This request is way off topic, but I'll submit it anyway. I have been going down a Henry Ford rabbit hole and found some of the detailing and reasoning behind the designs so captivating. I would love to hear Sandy and knowledgeable friends/colleagues share thoughts on the engineering and foresight that was needed to create the Model T and Model A. The magneto in the T is a wonderful piece of tech. The fact that 'gravity feed' and 'splash' were there before the pumps. The transmission break, its physical flexibility, vanadium steel, the reverse pedal so you could rock it back and forth to get out of a hole etc. I heard that the car model T was also seen as a machine to help the environment, as there was so much horse manure to deal with, that the farmers didn't even want it. 15 million model Ts made with (apparently) around 1 in 250 still with us.
Please consider organizing an impromptu round table with photos of certain details as props for discussion, It could be framed as a toast to ICE vehicles and their cultural significance, as we welcome the new era of BEVs. Thanks again for all of your hard work at Munro. The content and analysis genuinely inspires me to work harder in my own unrelated career and in life in general. The video with Al Wagner toughed on the overall history (which was great), I'd personally love a dive into the Model T. Sorry if this is way out of left field, I would just love their take on vanadium Cheers!
Awesome content!
Nice. Wondering if you could do a repair projection for impact areas?
Thank you
Very interesting! I just wish the audio was more consistent, Kevin's microphone might be better attached to his jacket
Jordan is so dang smart. Always appreciate seeing him in these videos. :)
About the aluminum extrusions on the door pillar. That's where a forward facing camera lives.
I’m with you guys on the door ring spot welds. I commend the Tesla engineers and designers for having the courage for making a narrow flange, but on the other hand, those welds look less than perfect. I’m not a manufacturing engineer; I presume the welds are done with automation. It would be interesting to know what the variables are that limit the ability to place the welds accurately and with proper quality. I would think Tesla has access to the same robots that Ford does, so what is it that allows Ford to do a better execution on the Mach E?
It’s the lack of quality control from tesla lol…
The welding tool is heavy and there is a limit to how stiff you can make the robot arm. The tip will always wiggle a little as you stop the movement to pinch the part. Eventually you can dial this out with some programming.
@@BjorckBengt Thank you for your reply, it is appreciated.
I recall working at Dodge Truck 40 yrs. Ago; Spotwelding truck body panels be hand. The sparks were special when the robotic arm double tapped, sending them beneath the bibs of our aprons. Was the top weld in the door frame done by the Mechanical Bob double tapping, or a man made repair? Why not employ lighter weight Polymers 🤔 for that?
Is the tailor welded B-pillar for thickness increase, strength increase, or both?
Looks like the cowl had a pice of tape on it that at one time had a bolt from the I.P. Going through it. On the extra metal on the B-pillar remember on earlier versions there was a wind noise, so my guess this filled that void that is created the faster you go
During body in white review, was there any particular section or part which you thought could benefit from 3D manufacturing techniques?
Thank you!
I saw them show that the door mounts are bare metal but didn't hear a reason why. Why put the doors on, paint dip, then remove the doors for further assembly, just to put them back on later - instead of painting the doors separately and only install them once? Is the bare metal connection needed for tolerancing, grounding, some other requirement? There must be a reason to go through the extra effort.
Do you think the rear quarter panels could easily be replaced in case of an accident that leaves dents on that panel?
@Munro Live Do you see any reason why Tesla can’t integrate an adjustable seat belt anchor point into the B-Pillar?
Link to Part 1 in Description, please. TIA
great work as always thanks for breaking into 2 parts
No problem
What, No Third part!! Great team up
Would be interesting to see how the new Cadillac EV compaires.
Amazing how many parts is punched and spot welded together ,we humans we should put all maney in to metal 3d printing !!!!!!!nice program , regards.
Excellent
As usual a great education from Munro thanks guy’s!
I did that harness job, and yes it F#$*ing sucks to install. 😅
Great stuff, thank you! Do you think they'll do the mega castings for S/X at some point or is the unit volume too low to bother with it?
I wonder if it's simply that they're still waiting for the casting machines, and for this low volume, they're last on the list to get them.
Great video, love the detailed explanations and insight into car engineering!
One question: there doesn't seem to be any holes or access panels in the rear shock towers, they're completely enclosed. So how are the top of the shocks attached to the body? From below?
Good job
1:00 - Isn't that hole used for attaching the Instrument panel? Obviously the IP wasn't attached when the body was being painted, so it would've been something else then..
It's refreshing to witness these 2 N. American engineers spitting out measurements in S. I. units. Furthermore, they seem to prefer the smaller (millimeter) over the larger (cm) of which (cm) is favored in Europe -but somewhat less precise. I'm of the mind that metrification IS occurring in the US, it's just happening from the bottom up instead of the top down (mandated). It started with the sciences & coke bottles in the 70's & will continue on until fully incorporated into everyday vernacular. That will take decades more as even the Brits still measure their road distances in miles.
In mechanical engineering and manufacturing everybody talks and writes dimensions in millimeters, not centimeters.
After watching all these short presentations it feels like you would be able to build your own car in a shed now. It’s THIS informative!!
Do they use any cavity wax or anything these days from the factory?
Maybe it’s a ground point (on the cowling).
Thanks for the detailed look at how Tesla and auto manufacturers in general approach and execute vehicle manufacture. It helps me be more tolerant of idiosyncratic annoyances I might experience with my car. Jess
Is it just me or is there an enormous amount of sealer adhesive in the rear roof panel on the cross beam. Looks like almost an inch of adhesive
*_Munro Live Videos have become my guilty pleasure._*
I've been waiting for this for what feels like forever. Thanks!
Fabulous information and very informative, thanks so much for these highly educational videos!
From part 1, drive by wire should make room by the firewall.
damn, you guys are tuff on them...
Sandy is out with the Rivian electric truck, will he give some updates on performance, and other observations? Thank you! JD.
Rivian content coming soon!!
@@MunroLive Thank you! so cool! Great learning experience (unless you do this stuff for a living)!
thanks 4 sharing
Thanks 4 watching!!
Question. Was this a prototype castoff? Would like to know from start to finish how you acquired this sample. If it wasn't taken from an active production line the observations are suspect. Like the content but you need to provide more context.
I can tell that you're new to the channel. This was purchased, and they've been tearing it down for months now.
Monroe bought a Plaid drove it across the country brought it back and took it apart. It is $125,000 in loose parts now for your benefit.
Framed doors are superior, change my mind
Yeah. It is.
Has Munro, Assoc commented on the Tesla glass roofs? I've got a Model Y, normally I love looking at the stars, up at buildings through a 'moon' roof... But the Tesla glass roof just seems to bring in a lot of heat, is fragile. It has to be tinted which lowers it's use as a window. I've had the roof rack - I removed it. I don't want to risk carry my kayak. If I tried putting my kayak on that rack and it slipped... could be very expensive. I've never actually seen much of anything through that glass roof (and I like to sleep in the back. What I remember most is a street light.) It seems to add excess weight, no strength, possible leaks (My FSD stopped working for a day after I removed the rack and a neighbor hosed down my car. I've since resealed the areas the rack installed with black silicone caulking.)
It's actually stronger than a conventional roof but does have all the other drawbacks you mentioned. I think you can get a cover for it (inside).
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom wrong!!!! It’s not even close to beeing stronger to a conventional roof lol…. A conventional roof can be easily modified to install all kinds of features…. Not worry about glass breaking
@@carholic-sz3qv Actually you're wrong about the strength but correct about mounting things.
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom I’m not wrong about the strength
How much does the body in white weigh in this state?
Mmh, it's not Munro without Munro.
Hey can I buy the front bumper?
Friction Critical Joints at No Paint faying surfaces? When is Blackberry QNX Cyber Security episode?
THANKS4GIVING
As a new owner of a 2022 model s plaid, some of the things you point out I can see on my own vehicle. Case in point the seats, the rear seats new designs allow for a bad squeak and it was partially the same noise (along with the wind noise) that Sandy complained about.
Great work guys keep it up!
If I were to guess, "tumble home" was probably inherited from the ship manufacturing industry, and probably didn't originate in the auto industry.
Another awesome video, love the depth you both offer. At the end some overall thoughts on is this a great good or crap body in white given that it is the fastest production car in the world? would be the 'opinion' that is a little lacking from the nice technical detail.
Hey Jordan. Is a "thermal event " the same as a fire? ;)
Not necessarily, Fire is fire, a thermal event includes, for example, melting..
🤔Very impressive stuff
Keep it up with the good work...💯🔥
Thanks 🔥
19:07 'Octagoganal' is not a word :-) 'Octagonal' is right.
So what's the overall grade?
*_Extremely_* informative as always. *Munro Live* is a delight to watch.
My physics teacher said a CPU designer has two - maybe three chips in their career and that's it. Maybe they move on to memory. Cell phones seem more like cars , where someone might leave and build a clone from a previous generation.