Hell yeah!! Thats excellent! The way you described the experience and immersion is very similar to our triple 65inch rig, but a few steps further again. Having such a large environment really places you "inside" the car and in many ways almost does as good a job as stereoscopic 3D in VR. A different experience for sure but very close to VR in terms of immersion. Will definetly be following this project. Thanks for showing us!
In theater and literature are two similar terms, "suspension of disbelief" and "creation of secondary belief". This system, initial costs aside, comes closer than any sim I've seen.
I like that even though the projection is on a dome the text boxes look like they are floating in space not affected by the curved screen too much especially to the left of the image.
The 3 projector system has been around for years in the flight sim community. Not sure where the price point of $20,000 came from? Three short throw projectors will cost around $3000 to $4000 plus you'll also need the warping software. A wrap around screen can be built cheaply. Looks like a lot of the cost went into building the fiberglass enclosure. The debate between triple monitors and projectors has been going on for years in the flight sim community. The disadvantage with projectors is the sharpness compared to monitors. Plus the room needed for the setup. The warping software can also be tedious and takes a lot of work to get just right. Personally I'll stick with VR. Completely immersive and so much easier to use. Cheers!
The only nit-pick I could make, and this could be entirely down to the camera angle anyway, is the scaling. On your camera you kind of looked like a little kid sat in dad's car. As I said that could entirely be down to the PoV we got. This looks awesome though.
It looks like that any time the camera is behind the driver's position. Notice how he said its a 1M radius from the driver's head to the screen in every direction? That's not by accident.
Imagine an ultra wide monitor that scales to the exact height and width of each vehicles cockpit, or imagine a VR headset in the form of a race drivers helmet.
The problem with this is that the scaling looks way off (in the clips driving the NSX in PCars2 - the rest look much better). It's very hard to get it correct with triples, but in VR, it is usually spot-on out of the box. The only ones I've seen with screens who have the scaling done correctly are the Boosted Media guys.
Maybe you missed it in the video but I said a few times it's 100% geometrically correct from the drivers seated position and the camera makes it look off in the recording mate.
Great video Karl. The extra field of view and not having something stuck to your face are huge advantages with this kind of setup. Where VR trumps this solution is the headtracking and 3D depth perception. As you say though, VR has someway to go to improve both the field of view and comfort levels.
Tbh it looked pretty immersive even tho I was watching it from my phone. Damn..! I cant imagine how it'd be if being there irl. My best solution to be immersed in racing or even in any game whatsoever is VR at the moment but even that has some pretty hefty limitations when talking about field of view. So i guess going back to the roots of projection is the future maybe. Great video m8. Thanks for sharing this with us!
IMO field of view isn't that bad (the benefits of depth perception and proper scale more than make up for it) and it will only be a matter of time before they increase it. I just don't think a big high resolution projector and giant dome can really be competitive with a VR headsets tiny screen and lenses. not only can you get a decent VR headset for a fraction of the cost of a projector and domed screen setup. VR is also a lot easier and user friendly. it's just plug and play at this point whereas a projector requires a lot of complicated setup....
Very impressive, but why would this be any different than a properly set up triple screen? Does it really matter if it's projected onto a sphere vs. 3 planes? Is it simply reaching more of your peripheral vision? In that case, what is stopping triple screens from doing that?
FOV and overall visibility (size), you would need triple 92" screens to get the same experience... Plus with the spherical display you have no bezels and there's no sharp angled transition from one display to the next. This is much better it just needs to be higher resolution.
3D spherical projection would "be as good as it gets", but would presumably also require googles. Presumably special projection optics to focus on the spherical surface. Stitching the 3 projected images is also an interesting trick.
Have you tested Samsung Odyssey G9 49"? It's has 1000r curvature so u get some of that immersion of speed.Not of course that level but still.I think it's the best compromise if u don't like triple screens or Vr.And now it has new version coming out. Samsung Odyssey Neo G9 49"
You forgot to ask about the projectors lamp life. For that price they better have no less than 20,000 ( or more ) lamp hours life on those projectors. And speaking of projectors, it would've been good to know what brand projectors they will implementing on the final product. On a different note, FS2020 would be something to behold on this thing. Race drivers and pilots alike will likely pre-order after watching your video. Great coverage and content.
This looks absolutely amazing. However I think the VR limitations concerning FOV make it actually pretty realistic considering you‘ll always wear a helmet 100% in racing, which limits FOV just as much, at least as my G2 that is..
If you want to simulate wearing a helmet thats great, but as sim racers we don't have to wear helmets and I don't know anyone that does lol So a bigger FOV is much more preferable for me at least... but each to their own of course :)
Completely true, vr feels to me very similar to wearing a helmet in terms of fov. You just have to use your neck more. 20k is a far bigger issue than a slightly reduced fov. Also VR will replicate better depth perception than this dome projection rig.
It's right there in FIA standards that approved helmets must have -/+ 90 lateral FOV. (FIA - 8860 -2018). That's 180 degrees. The G2 has about half of that. The Pimax 8k is the only one that comes close, but even that's not 180 degrees. The G2 is very far. And it does matter. That's why I prefer 3 screens vs VR, because I can still see where the other car is next to me while I'm looking at the apex. In VR you have to turn your head to see the other car and you won't see where you are going. It's a difference that can mean crash or no crash.
there's a channel called the warthog project and he's done a similar thing but its a diy setup and he has videos of how he stitches the displays together and how made everything
Oh my God! I want one 😲😍 just incredible to see, just got to get the right six numbers 🙄 great video and nice to see you get more recognition from great companies like these! 👍onwards and upwards Karl 🍾
great video and always liked that setup, going from a tripple to vr is amazing, maybe this would be better but its not really practical, maybe on a demo or in an arcade but not for home use.
Nice video Karl. All we can hope that this technology grows and evolution puts this setup in the reach of the many. In the 80's the fast supercars were doing 0-60 times in 4 odd seconds and I wouldn't have thought then that kind of performance would ever be in the realms of the masses, now you can go and buy a Golf that will do that! With any luck to save space that 'dome' will one day just be an oversized helmet (like 4 or 8 times the size) that can be bolted to the rig so the footprint stays the same.
Nice one. Looks like the scaling is a little off and is most pronounced by the vertical height? Less so when you placed the camera roughly at the driver level.
Will they upgrade the 1080p projectors to 4K laser tri colour projectors for increased resolution/contrast/colour? This is the way forward for driving/flight simulators. With VR headsets being held against your face, loses the sense of realism because you're aware of the headset all the time. Plus it gets hot and sweaty during extended play sessions. VR has a lot going for it, but this 270 degree view is far superior. You can even put on a race helmet if you want that extra immersive feel. Looking forward to seeing more on this and potentially other manufacturers doing the same which in turn will hopefully bring down the cost.
@@treemium1467 he means this tech but with stereoscopic 3d, as in it renders 2 slightly different images for each eye. it would essentially have to render the scene twice which gives quite a big hit to performance.
Karl hope you can do a follow up when the NVidia 4090ti and Intel i9 13900k are available. Would be interesting to find out if some retail hardware can run this system higher than 1080p
We are one step closer to real G-forces, complete the dome underneath, and put it on a Yaw2 kind of platform, to rotate the dome with you in it up to 90° you will need these safety car belts and put this yaw on 4-5 actuators to add heave (and road vibrations). you won't see the motion anymore but hitting a side wall, you will surely feel like you will smashing your head against the front window, when the dome is rotated 90° forward. And what that will do to flight sims..
Maybe bring someone like a Michel Dejong along to get some feedback from a professional sim racer. Michel would be great in front of the camera as well !
20k.. but a good 1080p projector these days can be purchased for $250. ALR screen sheet costs about $86 for 120". That leaves us the Pod & the software.
I have no idea of the actual cost to build, but the projectors and Quadro card along with the rest of the PC could easily top 10k though, whilst you can buy cheap half decent 1080p projectors you can also pay a couple of thousand for really good ones, EPSON EH-LS300W for example are £1900 each!
This is so amazing. I was sold on VR until I saw this. Obviously it's not the same price as VR but still cool. The only drawback on this vs VR, is if you use motion, you can tune VR for motion correction, so that when the motion rig tilts you, your vision in the VR headset follows, so you won't feel like you're tilted. I don't think there is motion correction for screens yet, and I don't think it would work as seamlessly as in VR. In VR you don't notice when the motion correction is acting. But on a screen you will see the whole horizon tilt. So I don't think it will be as seemless. If you aren't running motion though, this would be the perfect solution
@@KarlGosling oh I didn't know that, good to know there's a motion correction solution for monitors. Hopefully it works somewhat as seamlessly as motion correction in VR.
Professional flight sims are basically this. It's all projected so that you can look around and have it at least kinda be realistic. Not quite 4k though. The worst sims I've been in are like simulators for having bad eyesight.
My concern with projectors have always been the bulbs. They burn out and they are expensive. Monitors last way longer. Its a great idea and I bet one day this is the way to go.
For me yes I prefer it, but others may prefer VR, it's all down to personal preference really, but you can't get a true 200 degree+ FOV VR headset right now anyway. Immersion is just a feeling, nothing feels 100% true to life and you're never going to be tricked into thinking you're actually in a car obviously! lol VR doesn't do this either, yet! But both are great ways to play driving sims! :)
In sim racing we don't have to wear a helmet and googles, which is why none of us choose to, as soon as VR has a bigger FOV no one is going to choose to narrow that either.
Whilst I love the idea of this, I get the impression this will be one of those things that a few millionaires will buy before it fizzles out. Without support from Sims the 280deg fov is impossible. As far as I know iracing only supports 180deg. I would be far more interested if lg for example released their roll up TV in a horizontal orientation that curved around the driver. Yes it would still be flat vertically but for the view out of a car that's a non issue. I remember seeing this on tomorrow's world probably 30 years ago where it was promised to be five years away from being cheap and available. One thing that would make it far more viable(and for triples) would be head/eye tracking and only fully rendering the area your looking at with less and less detail towards the periphery or you vision as you only need to see a green flash as the tree passes your ear for example.
This has been possible for years. Warping software Projectors I guess they are taking the configuration steps away and licensing of the warping software. But No worth 20k when you could do it yourself. Not knocking it, but it's nothing new.
I have no idea of the actual cost to build, but the projectors and Quadro card along with the rest of the PC could easily top 10k though, whilst you can buy cheap half decent 1080p projectors you can also pay a couple of thousand for really good ones, EPSON EH-LS300W for example are £1900 each!
Well... Thanks to Karl and the folks at Immersive Display UK, doesn't everyone's sim rig feel totally inadequate now. That is completely next level stuff. A level I will never achieve but, it sure is wild to think about. Thanks to Immersive for inviting Karl to give it a go and Thanks to Karl for allowing us to tag along.
Fore sure a really nice experience. But i would still not change my VR for this. And to the „limited“ view aspect…to you ever use a helmet? But if someone need‘s….look at the pimax headsets.
Yeah VR is a great experience also, all personal preference! :) The helmet argument for VR is silly though, IRL racing it's for safety, in sim racing we don't have to limit our FOV for safety so why would we? I'm pretty sure you don't where a helmet to drive to the shops in your daily... because you don't have to! :) lol
Niels Heusinkveld did a good video on this, using science! helmets don't really restrict your horizontal FOV at all th-cam.com/video/Io6lOcJplfM/w-d-xo.html
I would really want to know about motion sickness with this setup compared to VR. As it’s a deal breaking for me.. and being 60Hrz doesn’t help I think.
reminds me of the first time i heard about DD systems , this is so cool what a time we live in . great work on the channel and as i get to csl dd day i'll use you're links , keep up the good work.
Thank you for the video! The edge blending and pixel mapping looks excellent (especially on camera bad edge blending would show) ! My questions would be if this is a software solution for the mapping and blending and if this runs on the same machine / PC as the simulations, or if this is running on a separate PC or video processor. Are these projectors laser, LED or lamp based?
It's seamless and was one of the hardest things they said to get right, there's a fairly big overlap! All done on one PC mate and they are using DLP's.
There are times when I get into my VR headset I think. Someone could bust into my house steal all my stuff around me and I'd never know it. I'd put a nice thick sliding Black Curtin on that Rigs entrance hole to block out the light coming into the back of it and think the same thing. A flight sim would be awesome in that A+ Review. How about a How guide to on getting the Wife to say yes to getting one?
I think the final version may have a curtain option, but for show setups it needs to be open for people to watch from the outside. Now that I can't help with! lol
@@aidenfielding9709 haha, nothing fancy mate. I'm a lorry driver, UK is desperate for lorry drivers and every company needs to keep the ones they have. Given an option of the 15k over 3 years as annual pay rise or a one off payment and no pay rise for 3 years. I took the one off.
I have a Logitech G29, G920, Thrust Master Pro and a Fanatec CSL elite!! I play on a 75 inch screen (4K) Why put that much effort and hold back on the wheel? Fanatec Elite is such a different Wheel!!
@@KarlGosling EXACTLY!!! They make a display!! So why not spend a few hundred bucks extra for such a BIG difference in immersion combined with their Product? This is like when Ericsson had their developers design the Phones!!
I never get why they would build such an extremely cool high end setup and then stick on a g29/920. nothing against the Logitech wheel but if you spend thousands of dollars on making this domed projection thing to get the most immersive experience possible why would you skimp on the wheel?!
That's what we've been waiting for... good job Immersive Displays UK this looks like a really great upgrade not only for racing but any 'cockpit' SIM. Does it have to be so big? Do we actually need that much visual space?... as that might be an option for a more cost effective model with smaller visual display area? .... not that matters by the time i will have saved enough cash we'll be on RTX 100,000 series any way
I'm not trying to have a bunch fight but all you "experts" complaining about scaling, special goggles for curved surfaces etc, I suggest you watch again and "Listen" to what David and Karl explain about being geometrically correct from the drivers head position. Then sit and have a think about that before rattling your keyboards with misunderstood drivel. Great Video and presentation as always Karl. We'll done mate.
It looks cool, but it’s just a flat image at the end of the day. Like the mirrors for example, you can move your head in vr to see more of the mirror, and different angles. I know vr isn’t perfect, but the depth perception is a massive deal. I guess mirrors are less important in a rally sim, but I prefer iracing, and having the ability to see the entire track behind is useful. In response to the narrow field of views in vr, have you ever driven in a helmet? because that’s what it feels like. A letterbox view. I dunno if you’ve had a go at ams2 Karl, that has a helmet view and it’s waaay narrower than a VR view.
@@sixx1095 you need a solid 90fps minimum with no drops, if you are running in reprojection then that can make you feel sick. With that said, if you are really bad with motion sickness, a quest 2 is far from ideal as with link do have more latency, a normal pc headset will comfortably be around 20ms mtp when running well at 90fps, a quest 2 when running with comparable visuals is over double that, the absolute lowest I ever got link to go was 35ms and the headset image was not usable at such a low graphic and undersampled resolution, a comparable image to my cv1 from years ago I'm at 50-60ms, combine that with the compression of link being an issue in fast motion and it's not very well suited if you suffer with motion sickness
The mirror issue doesn't bother me as much (or at all) as the narrow FOV in VR, thankfully as sim racers we don't need to where a helmet! lol But this is all personal preference as everything is a compromise on one way or another :)
This idea is moving backwards technologically. The concept has been around a lot longer than this company and it doesnt even have head tracking so those mirrors would be completely immersion breaking just like in vr if the mirrors dont react to where your head is.
Projectors may seem like old tech (and they are) but the experience is still by far the best I have had having tried all other mainstream options. Head tracking can be added, just like Will at Boosted Media has with his rig but even without they work great :)
The pods are very nice but very expensive and the ratio seems a bit off. The immersion is a selling factor and I would take one if it was affordable. Great video.
You should be able to DIY this for much cheaper. Search TH-cam for the guy who built a 3-screen projector rig for his Warthog simulator to see all the details about how he did it. I'd estimate you could DIY for 1/3 the cost (or less with cheap projectors). Also I think your RTX 4000 comments are wrong, there is no such thing outside nVidia labs. Nor should one be required for 3x 1080p at 60hz (which is kind of a pitiful frame-rate to be honest). It's too bad 1440p 144hz projectors aren't really a thing...
I've seen it mate but thats not the point of this product, this is a portable setup for shows etc. and commercial users really, they will sell you one of course but thats not really the target market unless your loaded and have money to burn. You've misunderstood mate, an RTX 4000 is a Quadro card which is whats needed for the geometric correction software to run well, nothing to do with normal GPU load based on resolution or FPS.
While cool the reporter don't seem very up to date on vr. I can see both mirrors and wear my 8kx for 8 hours comfortably and the vertical fov is great. Mixed reality is the future for sims and vr imo. I combine it in my racing/flight pit with motion and its fantastic. Sorry to say but you are talking about things you obviously don't know about. This is also pretty to old tech you can buy for DIY and lots of your info seems to be plain wrong
Gosh I want to try this with drifting. It look's like what I wanted VR to be, but failed to deliver. No more awkward HMD, hot face, or being unable to easily swap between drivers. Likely be far out of my price rage.
There is no deformation, I really wish more people would actually listen to the explanation of how it works before commenting :( Yeah the thumbnail is just a 'headline' for attention as all good thumbnails are, triples are definitely not dead mate no! :) lol
A Quadro 4000 is nowhere near as fast as a 3090 or 3080 for games. Even the A6000 is a smidgeon under a 3090. Perhaps there's a different reason using a Quadro is better rather than pure GPU grunt? Looks amazing though.
Please read before commenting about scaling or image distortion! It looks wrong through a camera lens but it was explained at least twice in the video that from the drivers seated position it's 100% geometrically correct, 1:1 scale with real life and looks perfect... thanks! :) This video shows it better if you want to take a look th-cam.com/video/I7sEkO8Lso4/w-d-xo.html
I really do love the effort but with a high end PC and VR you really dont need all that. I am trying to think of a market for this but its about 5 years too late. I am not knocking it. I think its great but just a bit dated. I would rather sink my money into a really good PC and VR. This really would be great if arcades still existed. For those stateside "Dave and Busters" would be a good fit.
It's all just personal preference mate, VR over this or triples/single screen, there's no clear winner (which is why we all use different setups), we all have different needs :) Oh there is also those who can't use VR because of motion sickness too.
agreed, I just don't see how this thing could ever be competitive when VR headsets are as cheap as they are now and require little to no setup. this thing is extremely cool but you'd have dedicate an entire room to it or something. think it will be reserved for the very hardcore (and rich) sim racers
Hell yeah!! Thats excellent! The way you described the experience and immersion is very similar to our triple 65inch rig, but a few steps further again. Having such a large environment really places you "inside" the car and in many ways almost does as good a job as stereoscopic 3D in VR. A different experience for sure but very close to VR in terms of immersion.
Will definetly be following this project. Thanks for showing us!
This very much reminded me of your setup, it's just inside a bubble more or less.
Ya, you are the first person I thought of when viewing this, I was wondering if they were going to reach out to you.
Looks like u sitting in a big ass bus
I did think of your setup Will as the closet thing to this, it's just great! :)
@Heiko Scheuermann SimRacing Thats cool but a single curved 65" screen is not even similar, looks good on camera though :)
In theater and literature are two similar terms, "suspension of disbelief" and "creation of secondary belief". This system, initial costs aside, comes closer than any sim I've seen.
I like that even though the projection is on a dome the text boxes look like they are floating in space not affected by the curved screen too much especially to the left of the image.
That's because everything is geometrically corrected so there is no distortion or warping of the image.
Great video Karl. Awesome to see you getting opportunities like this.
I was really pleased to get the invite! :)
The 3 projector system has been around for years in the flight sim community. Not sure where the price point of $20,000 came from? Three short throw projectors will cost around $3000 to $4000 plus you'll also need the warping software. A wrap around screen can be built cheaply. Looks like a lot of the cost went into building the fiberglass enclosure.
The debate between triple monitors and projectors has been going on for years in the flight sim community. The disadvantage with projectors is the sharpness compared to monitors. Plus the room needed for the setup. The warping software can also be tedious and takes a lot of work to get just right. Personally I'll stick with VR. Completely immersive and so much easier to use. Cheers!
All good points mate :)
@@KarlGosling Hey but I still enjoyed the video. Good job!
@@EmesiS he says in the video some of that extra cost is the Quadro cars needed
The only nit-pick I could make, and this could be entirely down to the camera angle anyway, is the scaling. On your camera you kind of looked like a little kid sat in dad's car. As I said that could entirely be down to the PoV we got. This looks awesome though.
I agree, it looks immersive but the top of the windscreen looks to be about 3ft above your head. With adjusted scaling this would be amazing
It looks like that any time the camera is behind the driver's position. Notice how he said its a 1M radius from the driver's head to the screen in every direction? That's not by accident.
Imagine an ultra wide monitor that scales to the exact height and width of each vehicles cockpit, or imagine a VR headset in the form of a race drivers helmet.
Yeah just the way it comes out on camera, I did say in the video it looks perfect from the drivers position.
@@kak8895 check out Stilo they famously make helmets and racing gear but also a VR helmet came out a while back very cool
The problem with this is that the scaling looks way off (in the clips driving the NSX in PCars2 - the rest look much better). It's very hard to get it correct with triples, but in VR, it is usually spot-on out of the box. The only ones I've seen with screens who have the scaling done correctly are the Boosted Media guys.
Maybe you missed it in the video but I said a few times it's 100% geometrically correct from the drivers seated position and the camera makes it look off in the recording mate.
Great video Karl. The extra field of view and not having something stuck to your face are huge advantages with this kind of setup. Where VR trumps this solution is the headtracking and 3D depth perception. As you say though, VR has someway to go to improve both the field of view and comfort levels.
Yeah nothing is perfect.
Tbh it looked pretty immersive even tho I was watching it from my phone. Damn..! I cant imagine how it'd be if being there irl.
My best solution to be immersed in racing or even in any game whatsoever is VR at the moment but even that has some pretty hefty limitations when talking about field of view. So i guess going back to the roots of projection is the future maybe.
Great video m8. Thanks for sharing this with us!
IMO field of view isn't that bad (the benefits of depth perception and proper scale more than make up for it) and it will only be a matter of time before they increase it. I just don't think a big high resolution projector and giant dome can really be competitive with a VR headsets tiny screen and lenses. not only can you get a decent VR headset for a fraction of the cost of a projector and domed screen setup. VR is also a lot easier and user friendly. it's just plug and play at this point whereas a projector requires a lot of complicated setup....
RTX4000 series??????? So they got Jensen on speed dial or something? Any more info on what GPU exactly?
lol i heard that too.. maybe they meant Quadro RTX 4000.. which is actually slower than a RTX 2080
My first thought was a quadro card as well. While slower than most big gun cards, they handle multiple displays better. More for devs than gamers.
It is a Quadro 4000. Checked their website to confirm. EDIT: Autocorrector hell
Yeah I did say in my outro Quadro RTX 4000 mate.
@@KarlGosling I didn't watch the outro, watched up until then 😅
Looks like you could add the wind fans and have whatever seat you want in it.
You certainly can!
Could you imagine if they made Hollywood action movies for this type of screen setup. Great video as always 👊
Looks very much like an old school flight simulator that they used to train airline pilots on back in the 70s and 80s
Not much has changed then. I've been in sims for 3 different platforms and they were all like this.
The future of gaming!!! It reminds me of the virtual dome from the movie Gamer that the player uses. This is amazing 🤩
this is amazing!! Karl you the man bringing great content to your channel
Very impressive, but why would this be any different than a properly set up triple screen? Does it really matter if it's projected onto a sphere vs. 3 planes? Is it simply reaching more of your peripheral vision? In that case, what is stopping triple screens from doing that?
FOV and overall visibility (size), you would need triple 92" screens to get the same experience... Plus with the spherical display you have no bezels and there's no sharp angled transition from one display to the next.
This is much better it just needs to be higher resolution.
3D spherical projection would "be as good as it gets", but would presumably also require googles. Presumably special projection optics to focus on the spherical surface. Stitching the 3 projected images is also an interesting trick.
Have you tested Samsung Odyssey G9 49"? It's has 1000r curvature so u get some of that immersion of speed.Not of course that level but still.I think it's the best compromise if u don't like triple screens or Vr.And now it has new version coming out. Samsung Odyssey Neo G9 49"
I have mate yes, it's a good compromise (as is everything) but you really miss the side/rear FOV and the height of the monitor is too small IMO.
You should see if they will make you one for the channel so you can reveiw the final finished product
I have an urge to buy a lotto ticket after seeing this . Thanks very cool.
You forgot to ask about the projectors lamp life. For that price they better have no less than 20,000 ( or more ) lamp hours life on those projectors. And speaking of projectors, it would've been good to know what brand projectors they will implementing on the final product.
On a different note, FS2020 would be something to behold on this thing. Race drivers and pilots alike will likely pre-order after watching your video. Great coverage and content.
Yeah I didn't get any other specs on the projectors and it's still a prototype so they may change anyway.
Yes it definitely would! :)
This looks absolutely amazing. However I think the VR limitations concerning FOV make it actually pretty realistic considering you‘ll always wear a helmet 100% in racing, which limits FOV just as much, at least as my G2 that is..
If you want to simulate wearing a helmet thats great, but as sim racers we don't have to wear helmets and I don't know anyone that does lol
So a bigger FOV is much more preferable for me at least... but each to their own of course :)
Completely true, vr feels to me very similar to wearing a helmet in terms of fov. You just have to use your neck more. 20k is a far bigger issue than a slightly reduced fov. Also VR will replicate better depth perception than this dome projection rig.
It's right there in FIA standards that approved helmets must have -/+ 90 lateral FOV. (FIA - 8860 -2018). That's 180 degrees. The G2 has about half of that. The Pimax 8k is the only one that comes close, but even that's not 180 degrees. The G2 is very far. And it does matter. That's why I prefer 3 screens vs VR, because I can still see where the other car is next to me while I'm looking at the apex. In VR you have to turn your head to see the other car and you won't see where you are going. It's a difference that can mean crash or no crash.
Bought the monitor mount you suggested as my gear shift mount for my playseat. Works a charm so thanks!
there's a channel called the warthog project and he's done a similar thing but its a diy setup and he has videos of how he stitches the displays together and how made everything
Yeah I've seen it mate, very cool!
Oh my God! I want one 😲😍 just incredible to see, just got to get the right six numbers 🙄 great video and nice to see you get more recognition from great companies like these! 👍onwards and upwards Karl 🍾
great video and always liked that setup, going from a tripple to vr is amazing, maybe this would be better but its not really practical, maybe on a demo or in an arcade but not for home use.
It's not for normal home use really, I mean you could do but it's more for shows, race teams or people with big money and big houses! lol
Nice video Karl. All we can hope that this technology grows and evolution puts this setup in the reach of the many. In the 80's the fast supercars were doing 0-60 times in 4 odd seconds and I wouldn't have thought then that kind of performance would ever be in the realms of the masses, now you can go and buy a Golf that will do that!
With any luck to save space that 'dome' will one day just be an oversized helmet (like 4 or 8 times the size) that can be bolted to the rig so the footprint stays the same.
Exactly! Everything moves on as time passes :)
Nice one. Looks like the scaling is a little off and is most pronounced by the vertical height? Less so when you placed the camera roughly at the driver level.
Just the way the camera makes it look it's 100% correct to the human eye when seated as I said in the video mate.
@@KarlGosling The power of perspective I suppose.
That looks absolutely amazing, just got to hit the lottery ;D
Will they upgrade the 1080p projectors to 4K laser tri colour projectors for increased resolution/contrast/colour? This is the way forward for driving/flight simulators. With VR headsets being held against your face, loses the sense of realism because you're aware of the headset all the time. Plus it gets hot and sweaty during extended play sessions. VR has a lot going for it, but this 270 degree view is far superior. You can even put on a race helmet if you want that extra immersive feel. Looking forward to seeing more on this and potentially other manufacturers doing the same which in turn will hopefully bring down the cost.
I hope because 1080p at this size is quite a low resolution.
Ohh i like! ....This is just what ive been looking for. Take my money!!!
You say everything is geometrically correct. Is it in every game or is it only correct in Project Cars?
Any sim that supports proper triple channel output.
I couldn't imagine the rendering power required but could you imagine that setup with stereoscopic 3D capabilities.
My guess is not any more than regular triples. Did he mention resolution?
@@treemium1467 he means this tech but with stereoscopic 3d, as in it renders 2 slightly different images for each eye. it would essentially have to render the scene twice which gives quite a big hit to performance.
Good job with this video as expected keep up the great work
Thanks!
Awesome video mate! When are they sending you one for me to try? Lll
Sadly no time soon! lol
Karl hope you can do a follow up when the NVidia 4090ti and Intel i9 13900k are available. Would be interesting to find out if some retail hardware can run this system higher than 1080p
Great video mate, thanks for sharing. Do you know if it supports rally games i.e. Richard Burns Rally, Dirt 2.0, WRC 10 etc?
None of those support triple channel output so sadly no :(
We are one step closer to real G-forces,
complete the dome underneath,
and put it on a Yaw2 kind of platform,
to rotate the dome with you in it up to 90°
you will need these safety car belts
and put this yaw on 4-5 actuators to add heave (and road vibrations).
you won't see the motion anymore
but hitting a side wall, you will surely feel like you will smashing your head against the front window, when the dome is rotated 90° forward.
And what that will do to flight sims..
Maybe bring someone like a Michel Dejong along to get some feedback from a professional sim racer. Michel would be great in front of the camera as well !
20k.. but a good 1080p projector these days can be purchased for $250. ALR screen sheet costs about $86 for 120". That leaves us the Pod & the software.
I have no idea of the actual cost to build, but the projectors and Quadro card along with the rest of the PC could easily top 10k though, whilst you can buy cheap half decent 1080p projectors you can also pay a couple of thousand for really good ones, EPSON EH-LS300W for example are £1900 each!
Nice mate. Good effort in all the videos!
This is so amazing. I was sold on VR until I saw this. Obviously it's not the same price as VR but still cool. The only drawback on this vs VR, is if you use motion, you can tune VR for motion correction, so that when the motion rig tilts you, your vision in the VR headset follows, so you won't feel like you're tilted. I don't think there is motion correction for screens yet, and I don't think it would work as seamlessly as in VR. In VR you don't notice when the motion correction is acting. But on a screen you will see the whole horizon tilt. So I don't think it will be as seemless.
If you aren't running motion though, this would be the perfect solution
If you see Will at Boosted Media's setup he uses motion correction with his setup and it works well.
@@KarlGosling oh I didn't know that, good to know there's a motion correction solution for monitors. Hopefully it works somewhat as seamlessly as motion correction in VR.
I rarely give thumbs up for vids. But this one deserves it.
Thanks mate! :)
Your channel is fantastic! love from Norway.
Thanks!
With motion, and 4K this with flight sims would be amazing.
Professional flight sims are basically this. It's all projected so that you can look around and have it at least kinda be realistic. Not quite 4k though. The worst sims I've been in are like simulators for having bad eyesight.
Take my money now! I haven't got any, but take it...I want that in my life.
I wonder how this compares to the 270 degree setups a lot of home flight simulator enthusiasts have. The spherical vs horizontal concave setup.
My concern with projectors have always been the bulbs. They burn out and they are expensive. Monitors last way longer. Its a great idea and I bet one day this is the way to go.
Lamp life is definitely a factor for sure mate.
If you're spending 20k on this bulb replacement costs will not be an issue whatsoever.
Really better than a wide FOV VR experience? Does the lack of stereoscopic view not disturb the immersion?
For me yes I prefer it, but others may prefer VR, it's all down to personal preference really, but you can't get a true 200 degree+ FOV VR headset right now anyway.
Immersion is just a feeling, nothing feels 100% true to life and you're never going to be tricked into thinking you're actually in a car obviously! lol VR doesn't do this either, yet! But both are great ways to play driving sims! :)
@@KarlGosling okay thanks for your impressions
Great video and very interesting product. My one nit pick was during the interview. Felt like you were constantly interrupting him.
I agree!
I was trying to make it like more like a conversation rather than a speech, but it obviously didn't work! lol
This looks amazing :)
Very awesome, hopefully there’s 20 ballers looking for an experience!
In VR yeah you have a narrow vision area, as you would in a race helmet and goggles.
In sim racing we don't have to wear a helmet and googles, which is why none of us choose to, as soon as VR has a bigger FOV no one is going to choose to narrow that either.
you do you brother. VR for me all the way
Watching you play was more immersive than playing on my single.
I think my only chance of owning one of these is building it myself.. but one of these days! 😁
Whilst I love the idea of this, I get the impression this will be one of those things that a few millionaires will buy before it fizzles out.
Without support from Sims the 280deg fov is impossible. As far as I know iracing only supports 180deg.
I would be far more interested if lg for example released their roll up TV in a horizontal orientation that curved around the driver. Yes it would still be flat vertically but for the view out of a car that's a non issue. I remember seeing this on tomorrow's world probably 30 years ago where it was promised to be five years away from being cheap and available.
One thing that would make it far more viable(and for triples) would be head/eye tracking and only fully rendering the area your looking at with less and less detail towards the periphery or you vision as you only need to see a green flash as the tree passes your ear for example.
With any VR headsets (I bought 3 different ones), you constantly sweat and fog due to the heat... :(
Yup I'm the same, plus I just don't like having to wear one when racing, personal preference :)
This has been possible for years.
Warping software
Projectors
I guess they are taking the configuration steps away and licensing of the warping software.
But
No worth 20k when you could do it yourself.
Not knocking it, but it's nothing new.
What's the lowest price one could build this for? I knew it was nothing new cuz F1 teams had been using set ups like this for so long
I really like this, but other than special software, I don't see what makes this so expensive.
It's just a project based system.
I have no idea of the actual cost to build, but the projectors and Quadro card along with the rest of the PC could easily top 10k though, whilst you can buy cheap half decent 1080p projectors you can also pay a couple of thousand for really good ones, EPSON EH-LS300W for example are £1900 each!
Well... Thanks to Karl and the folks at Immersive Display UK, doesn't everyone's sim rig feel totally inadequate now. That is completely next level stuff. A level I will never achieve but, it sure is wild to think about. Thanks to Immersive for inviting Karl to give it a go and Thanks to Karl for allowing us to tag along.
Was a great visit! :)
Hey Karl, I value your opinion. Do you prefer this to VR? I have a reverb G2 with a next level rig and a butt kicker. I really love it.
Yes I do, but thats just my preference and everyone will like what feels best for them! VR is also great! :)
@@KarlGosling Thanks for the reply bro. It sure looks fucking cool. Is the reason you prefer this to VR is FOV? The 3d in VR is something too.
Fore sure a really nice experience. But i would still not change my VR for this. And to the „limited“ view aspect…to you ever use a helmet? But if someone need‘s….look at the pimax headsets.
Yeah VR is a great experience also, all personal preference! :)
The helmet argument for VR is silly though, IRL racing it's for safety, in sim racing we don't have to limit our FOV for safety so why would we? I'm pretty sure you don't where a helmet to drive to the shops in your daily... because you don't have to! :) lol
@@KarlGosling it‘s adding a realistic feeling, if you will. :) but i agree, i wan‘t the Maximum fov too.
Niels Heusinkveld did a good video on this, using science!
helmets don't really restrict your horizontal FOV at all
th-cam.com/video/Io6lOcJplfM/w-d-xo.html
So THIS is cool, not the boring ball ;D th-cam.com/video/6mpZrsrX-Cw/w-d-xo.html
Would this work well for someone that has full 6 DOF motion rig like Prosimu P7MP where the height of the seat is much higher?
You'd have to ask them, the CAD drawing has actuators fitted to the rig so I would guess so, it won't only need the height of the image adjusting.
I would really want to know about motion sickness with this setup compared to VR. As it’s a deal breaking for me.. and being 60Hrz doesn’t help I think.
I didn't feel any and in VR I suffer to the point of being unable to play racing games.
@@KarlGosling thanks, good to know. Now I’m curious to try it 😄
reminds me of the first time i heard about DD systems , this is so cool what a time we live in .
great work on the channel and as i get to csl dd day i'll use you're links , keep up the good work.
Looks nice, but for the money I will stick with my PIMAX 8KX with 170 degree FOV.
Thank you for the video! The edge blending and pixel mapping looks excellent (especially on camera bad edge blending would show) ! My questions would be if this is a software solution for the mapping and blending and if this runs on the same machine / PC as the simulations, or if this is running on a separate PC or video processor. Are these projectors laser, LED or lamp based?
It's seamless and was one of the hardest things they said to get right, there's a fairly big overlap! All done on one PC mate and they are using DLP's.
Oh snap! Gotta start saving my coins! That looks amazing!
Smashing bit of gear, would also be great for flightsim. Thanks Karl interesting video.
It would! :D
There are times when I get into my VR headset I think. Someone could bust into my house steal all my stuff around me and I'd never know it. I'd put a nice thick sliding Black Curtin on that Rigs entrance hole to block out the light coming into the back of it and think the same thing. A flight sim would be awesome in that A+ Review. How about a How guide to on getting the Wife to say yes to getting one?
I think the final version may have a curtain option, but for show setups it needs to be open for people to watch from the outside.
Now that I can't help with! lol
I want this for my DCS flight sim
It’s cool but a tad bit out of proportion. I think you could stack 1 1/2 helmets on top of your head a.
I just felt my wallet leave my body. I think it's hiding somewhere now.
I just got a 15K bonus last week, and you go posting this
15k bonus, man I want your job ha
@@aidenfielding9709 haha, nothing fancy mate. I'm a lorry driver, UK is desperate for lorry drivers and every company needs to keep the ones they have. Given an option of the 15k over 3 years as annual pay rise or a one off payment and no pay rise for 3 years. I took the one off.
@@rossharper1983 id have done the same thing too ha
I have a Logitech G29, G920, Thrust Master Pro and a Fanatec CSL elite!!
I play on a 75 inch screen (4K)
Why put that much effort and hold back on the wheel? Fanatec Elite is such a different Wheel!!
They make the DISPLAY, you use your own rig with wheel and pedals etc. the G920 is just there for testing and prototyping, they are not sim racers.
@@KarlGosling EXACTLY!!!
They make a display!!
So why not spend a few hundred bucks extra for such a BIG difference in immersion combined with their Product?
This is like when Ericsson had their developers design the Phones!!
I never get why they would build such an extremely cool high end setup and then stick on a g29/920. nothing against the Logitech wheel but if you spend thousands of dollars on making this domed projection thing to get the most immersive experience possible why would you skimp on the wheel?!
They are an immersive display manufacturer not sim racers, it's just for testing.
Great review , dam I'd better start saving for one 😀
That's what we've been waiting for... good job Immersive Displays UK this looks like a really great upgrade not only for racing but any 'cockpit' SIM.
Does it have to be so big?
Do we actually need that much visual space?... as that might be an option for a more cost effective model with smaller visual display area?
.... not that matters by the time i will have saved enough cash we'll be on RTX 100,000 series any way
Just a guess but any smaller and I think you'd struggle to get a 1:1 display scale, or if you did you wouldn't be able to see much.
I'm not trying to have a bunch fight but all you "experts" complaining about scaling, special goggles for curved surfaces etc, I suggest you watch again and "Listen" to what David and Karl explain about being geometrically correct from the drivers head position. Then sit and have a think about that before rattling your keyboards with misunderstood drivel.
Great Video and presentation as always Karl. We'll done mate.
Maybe some people have missed how it works, or just don't understand the terminology?
The down thumb must be because of your driving,
Not the content of what the video is about.
cool dome though. I Would Like One I Realy Would.
lol My driving is amazing I don't know what you mean mate?! :)
Try Pimax 8kx and compare and share your opinion
I have one and I still prefer to not race in VR, just my preference mate, everyone is different :)
That looks absolutely fantastic. Unfortunately waayyy outside my price :( but looks fantastic :)
What awesome content. Very cool video
Thanks! :)
It looks cool, but it’s just a flat image at the end of the day. Like the mirrors for example, you can move your head in vr to see more of the mirror, and different angles. I know vr isn’t perfect, but the depth perception is a massive deal. I guess mirrors are less important in a rally sim, but I prefer iracing, and having the ability to see the entire track behind is useful.
In response to the narrow field of views in vr, have you ever driven in a helmet? because that’s what it feels like. A letterbox view. I dunno if you’ve had a go at ams2 Karl, that has a helmet view and it’s waaay narrower than a VR view.
I agree with the part being immersive, but I have motion sickness badly racing maybe because it's just a Quest 2.
@@sixx1095 you need a solid 90fps minimum with no drops, if you are running in reprojection then that can make you feel sick.
With that said, if you are really bad with motion sickness, a quest 2 is far from ideal as with link do have more latency, a normal pc headset will comfortably be around 20ms mtp when running well at 90fps, a quest 2 when running with comparable visuals is over double that, the absolute lowest I ever got link to go was 35ms and the headset image was not usable at such a low graphic and undersampled resolution, a comparable image to my cv1 from years ago I'm at 50-60ms, combine that with the compression of link being an issue in fast motion and it's not very well suited if you suffer with motion sickness
@@GmoLargey thank you for the reply, maybe till the day I have the G2,then I will try VR again
The mirror issue doesn't bother me as much (or at all) as the narrow FOV in VR, thankfully as sim racers we don't need to where a helmet! lol But this is all personal preference as everything is a compromise on one way or another :)
This idea is moving backwards technologically. The concept has been around a lot longer than this company and it doesnt even have head tracking so those mirrors would be completely immersion breaking just like in vr if the mirrors dont react to where your head is.
Projectors may seem like old tech (and they are) but the experience is still by far the best I have had having tried all other mainstream options.
Head tracking can be added, just like Will at Boosted Media has with his rig but even without they work great :)
The pods are very nice but very expensive and the ratio seems a bit off. The immersion is a selling factor and I would take one if it was affordable. Great video.
Definitely expensive! Ratio is perfect, 100% geometrically correct at a 1:1 scale as explained in the video.
Rtx 4000? hmm, time travellers? :D But it seems like the scale is off, just like in the awesome videos from Boosted Media :P
Quadro RTX 4000 ;) Yeah yeah! lol
You should be able to DIY this for much cheaper. Search TH-cam for the guy who built a 3-screen projector rig for his Warthog simulator to see all the details about how he did it. I'd estimate you could DIY for 1/3 the cost (or less with cheap projectors). Also I think your RTX 4000 comments are wrong, there is no such thing outside nVidia labs. Nor should one be required for 3x 1080p at 60hz (which is kind of a pitiful frame-rate to be honest). It's too bad 1440p 144hz projectors aren't really a thing...
I've seen it mate but thats not the point of this product, this is a portable setup for shows etc. and commercial users really, they will sell you one of course but thats not really the target market unless your loaded and have money to burn.
You've misunderstood mate, an RTX 4000 is a Quadro card which is whats needed for the geometric correction software to run well, nothing to do with normal GPU load based on resolution or FPS.
What can I say, Good stuff!
While cool the reporter don't seem very up to date on vr. I can see both mirrors and wear my 8kx for 8 hours comfortably and the vertical fov is great. Mixed reality is the future for sims and vr imo. I combine it in my racing/flight pit with motion and its fantastic. Sorry to say but you are talking about things you obviously don't know about. This is also pretty to old tech you can buy for DIY and lots of your info seems to be plain wrong
Gosh I want to try this with drifting. It look's like what I wanted VR to be, but failed to deliver. No more awkward HMD, hot face, or being unable to easily swap between drivers. Likely be far out of my price rage.
hello when you see thats, it s great and a good idear but when you see place, projector system, deformation, ect triple are far from being dead ;)
There is no deformation, I really wish more people would actually listen to the explanation of how it works before commenting :(
Yeah the thumbnail is just a 'headline' for attention as all good thumbnails are, triples are definitely not dead mate no! :) lol
Racing, flight, etc will be an amazing experience. But alas I need another 3 life cycles to buy it.
A Quadro 4000 is nowhere near as fast as a 3090 or 3080 for games. Even the A6000 is a smidgeon under a 3090. Perhaps there's a different reason using a Quadro is better rather than pure GPU grunt? Looks amazing though.
Yes mate, I believe it's for the real time calculations required to render the geometrically correct spherical image from three flat outputs.
@@KarlGosling Ah yes, that would make more sense :)
Please read before commenting about scaling or image distortion!
It looks wrong through a camera lens but it was explained at least twice in the video that from the drivers seated position it's 100% geometrically correct, 1:1 scale with real life and looks perfect... thanks! :)
This video shows it better if you want to take a look th-cam.com/video/I7sEkO8Lso4/w-d-xo.html
I really do love the effort but with a high end PC and VR you really dont need all that. I am trying to think of a market for this but its about 5 years too late. I am not knocking it. I think its great but just a bit dated. I would rather sink my money into a really good PC and VR. This really would be great if arcades still existed. For those stateside "Dave and Busters" would be a good fit.
It's all just personal preference mate, VR over this or triples/single screen, there's no clear winner (which is why we all use different setups), we all have different needs :)
Oh there is also those who can't use VR because of motion sickness too.
agreed, I just don't see how this thing could ever be competitive when VR headsets are as cheap as they are now and require little to no setup.
this thing is extremely cool but you'd have dedicate an entire room to it or something. think it will be reserved for the very hardcore (and rich) sim racers
I can't stop laughing at the tiny mic!
It's my lapel mic! lol
Just Awesome!
What was that game
PC2
RTX4000? This may be a time travel machine too since this doesn't even exist (yet)!
Yes it does, Quadro RTX 4000.
@@KarlGosling same difference, RTX4000 and time machine