Universal Diesel Engines - What You Should Know
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- This week we take a look at the Universal Diesel Sailboat Engine and its history including the Atomic 4 sailboat engine followed by the Universal MD series: made by Kubota, bought by Westerbeke, and found in many sailboats today. We look at Universal Diesel Issues and what to watch for as well as highlighting the positive sides to owning a Universal Diesel in your sailboat.
Practical Sailor is your trusted resource for reviews of sailboats and sailing gear.
www.practical-...
Chat with us on Facebook! / practicalsailor
What a great partnership by three sources I have a lot of faith in: Practical Sailor, Lady K, and Madame Diesel!
Thanks for this video. 1980 Universal 5416 here. I completely (and I mean completely) rebuilt this engine in 2013 when I bought the boat. Got almost all the parts from Kubota once I sussed out which block it was. Fraction of the cost of parts from Universal, Yammer or Volvo. 600 hours since rebuild, runs like a top but is a bit noisy. Rebuild was about 1/3 of the cost of a new Beta at the time. Uses about 3/8 gal/hr at 5 1/2 kts on a Bristol 29.9.
Videos such as this are incredibly helpful to those who are wanting to get into sailing, but have zero experience or knowledge of everything involved.
We've a Nanni 3 cylinder engine in our H28, based upon a Kubota block it replaced the Yanmar that was the boats original engine, and we're very happy with it. Nice engine, tough, easy to work on, reliable, quiet and smooth.
Good review of the Universal engine and its pros and cons. I had an M25 in my '85 Morgan 32 and it gave me mostly good service except for the cooling system and I finally got it completly overhauled. It was handy to get many of the parts I needed (belts, filters, thermostats, alternators, etc.) from the local Kubota dealer in Panama City, FL. Enjoyed those coastal cruising days way back in the early 2000s.
Cheers. The M35B purrs along nicely in my c34-2
Great information. I had a Catalina 30 with an Atomic 4 which ran well. I presently have a Catalina 320 with a Perkins diesel. I would love to see a future episode about that engine.
1986 Catalina 27 with M18 diesel here. Only “issue” has been, for me preventative ,replacing the alternator bracket that when-not-if crack the timing cover it was mounted to. Bad design! The upgrade kit to mount to longer studs in the exhaust was a big chore. I’m sure an episode or mention of this would be liked.
Heck yeah I have the same engine on my C27!
That is where I am with my 82 Catalina 30, I am going to glue the broken piece back on since it will only stop oil from splashing out, and I have to install the new system, not looking forward to it and it's very expensive for the kit, but cheaper than a new engine.
I loved my Universal M25-XP...simple...reliable. When my water pump went on the Fritz, I found an exact replacement down at the local Kubota Tractor Store for less than half the price thru a marine outlet.
I'll add that the Universal M25 is a marinized Kubota D-850. The M25-XP is a Kubota D-950. Both are three cylinder diesels that were used in Cal, Pearson, Catalina, O'day and Ericson yachts. The weakest points on the M25 and M18 was the poorly designed alternator mounting bracket, which WILL crack the timing case cover, and the "trailer plug" wiring harness that (especially if used with an ammeter) is a fire hazard. An upgraded alternator mounting bracket is available, and any "trailer plug" in the harness (there should be two of them) should be cut out and replaced with terminal strips. The Ammeter should be replaced with a Volt meter.
Great show and perfect timing for lift in . I have a 1983, 27 foot Catalina with a Universal 2 cylinder diesel . It starts every time even after a Canadian winter. I change the oil 2 times a year like the former owner did . Along with impeller and a few filters there is not much to that bullet proof get me out of the way of a storm now piece of mind.
The 5411? They switched to the M18 in 1984. That's what I have on my '84 C27.
Do you have a list of the regular maintenance you do ? I have an M18 as well
I have the old alternator bracket on my M18 1984 Cat 27. Did either of you change yours ?
@@BTC6291 I haven't changed mine YET but I'm going to order it soon. It's critical.
I have a 1982 Catalina 30 with a westerbeke 12c from 2005. It actually runs great and has never let me down. But I am planning on doing a repower in the future. The smoothness of a 3 cyl would be much nicer under motor I think.
There's a comment/reply in this thread that endorses 3cyl for that reason. The biggest 3cyl Beta Marine is 30hp which suits up to 15,000 lbs. Interesting limit to keep in mind, ~37'
Back in the day before my brother passed he used to say "never buy a volvo on purpose" because of the price of parts and maintenance. I would like to hear what you and others now think about the modern volvo for sailboats as it purtains to the DIYer. Great video btw.
I am rebuilding my M3-20b, love my Universal Diesel and will never get rid of it.
Great video Thank you!
I have an M25 Universal in my 84' Hunter 31. Dead solid and reliable engine. It came original with a Yanmar 2GM but when I bought the boat she had no powerplant. Fitting the M25 was a bit of work as the 2GM is narrow, tall and short and the M25 is short, wide and long! Took some fabricating time making new mounts but it fit in there beautifully and has ample power and sips fuel at a very economical rate!
Love the fact that when I do need parts most stuff is at the Kubota dealer (water pump 1/2 price of Westerbeek!)
Cheers
Mike
Thanks. I have used a Universal M-25XP in my Catalina for many years. I love that engine!
Only thing I could do to make it just like new would be to replace the front piece that covers the water pump gears and mounts just behind the front crankshaft oil seal. I done minor repairs on mine, but have lived with it.
I have the m25 which i rebuild from watching youtube videos very simple.My advice get the glow plugs, starter, hose's, nuts and bolts from a marine dealer
Tim, in 95, I sailed on an O'Day 37 out of St. Petersburg Fla, with a Universal diesel, dead reliable, but the owner stipulated darned near a half hour cool down before shutdown, as the cooler casting, had a tendency to crack easily.
Having owned 2 sailboats since, I think that if I get another sailboat, I will go Beta Marine, same Kubota block, but looking at the heat exchanger, it's more Skookum. Also, I haven't heard anyone deriding them.
As to durability, they are not rated 100% power unlimited time. For that you are looking at Cat, LARGE Yanmar, ABC Engines, Baudouin Diesel, et al.
Not much wrong with the original Atomic 4! Reliable if maintained, smooth running and quieter than almost all diesels. The two draw-backs that I found with our first Islander 30 was the caution with gasoline on board (but who doesn't carry a gas can for the dinghy, usually in a cockpit locker with a host of other items), and the poor fuel economy. On our 30 ft boat it was drinking 4.5 liters of fuel per hour at 5.5 knots. We didn't get too far with a 90 liter tank! The Beta 30 uses 1.2 liters per hour, same speed. Great video Tim, I could have used this information many times over the years! The Beta line of sailboat diesels also use the Kabota block, marinized by the British and, in my case, driving an Italian sail drive!
Thanks for Beta info
@@artsmith103 Correction Art, it's a Beta 20, not a 30hp. A 3 cylinder Kabota 744 block marinized by Beta in England. I have 1,500 hours now over 11 years of sailing and never a failure. All the essentials are at the front of the engine, easy to service and, with three cylinders, inherently smoother running than the 2 or 4 cylinder engines. Coupled with the soft mounts of the sail drive vibration transmitted to the hull is at a minimum. Vibration is noise, so with the added sound insulation added to the compartment, I can hold a normal conversation in the cockpit or inside the cabin without having to raise my voice. Exactly what I was after in the installation in the first place. I have a log of the installation and accompanying story published in Good Old Boat magazine.
@@bertvermeer5605 Thanks again, especially the 3 cylinder comment. Don't forget diesel fuel has 15% more energy in the same liter compared to gasoline.
I had a Beta Marine - Marinized Kubota 62 HP 5 Cylinder, that thing was a tank!
I would love to see a video on diesel lift pumps & filters and how to know if you are not over doing it , that is restricting flow with filters.
Nice job Tim! Great starter. Id like to hear your opinion on in mast furling for limited crew.
As a continuation of this marine engine discussion, can you discuss the Beta engines?
Sehr schön. Bei 07:48 sehe ich doch noch einen Motor mit klassischen Steuerrädern. Dann bin ich beruhigt. Peter
Wow! Thanks for this great video! My 1981 O'Day 28 has a Universal 5411. So far it has worked every time I've called on it, but I have not gotten around to inspecting the exhaust elbow or compression and I sometimes wonder if it will make more sense to replace or repair if a major issue comes up. This video and Meredith's recent article give me encouragement to continue to invest in my engine and to seek parts from the non OEM market when Westerbeke prices seem to exceed my budget for such items. This and many of the new Practical Sailor content provide exactly the type of information I want to help me keep my 43 year old boat operating safely. Keep it up!
The aftermarket parts are what keeps Westerbeke in business.
I would like an in-depth lecture on paperwork and permits when sailing to other countries. Maybe easy ones like the Bahamas and The Virgin Islands. Then, a couple hard ones like Turkey and Vietnam. Just to get resolution on the subject. If you have time, dog passport info would be good too.
I believe the atomic 4 was about 27 to 30 HP. not 18. It was a lot faster then the universal diesels that they started to replace it with.
Thanks for another great report. I had atomic gas engine in my cal 27. It was super reliable, but the trany didnt do well.
I have a Kubota 7200D tractor maybe made in the late 70's or early 80's and it still run perfect.. it has the 3 cylinder engine
Really like your TH-cam videos, thanks! I have a 1985 Cal mark II with a universal 5432. My mechanic said it was a westerbeke but you have explained the transition and since it’s a 1985 I assume it’s a kabota. Called atomic universal diesel. It’s been a good engin so far.
Have a universal M25 that seems to require very little, especially fuel. Had to switch out the ( inferior) Hurth transmission though.
Good work. I have a M40 pushing me and my Westsail 32 nicely here in NZ .
Very good information, thanks.
Thanks so much Tim for this episode and the included tips. My 84 Catalina 30 was underwater (whole engine) for about a week, this froze up M25. To break loose, something bad, bad happened and now facing total replacement or rebuild (yet to be determined). Understand block is same as Kabota 950. Looking for whole engine and or parts. If you can confirm Kabota 950 and any leads for sources for a used whole engine or some sort of replacement greatly appreciated by patron Sailor Dave Texas
I have a 1998 Westerbeke 42 B. It is a Mitsubusi block and I have been able to source parts from many other vendors. I just bought a Vetus coolant pump from a company for $178 instead of Westerbekes $458. Heat exchanger from Mr Cool for half of Westerbeke wanted price. Starter from DB Electrical for $139 instead of over $300. Do you DD you can find parts for less. Even WB probably buys there marinzing parts from somebody else
Thanks for your videos and *guidance* Sir.
🙏🦉
🌅🌊⛵🌊🌅🏝️
🙏 Awesome content!
Can someone comment as to Beta Marine relative to this discussion?
Beta are marinised kubota engines. They're bulletproof. The volvo md series are marinised perking which are made by a Japanese company. They're bulletproof too but the beta are much quieter. I have serviced both.
I see Universal engines in bigger Catalinas all the time. Are they desirable?
A moment of silence for our colleagues who own a Volvo 😅
Nice one. The starter on my 81 m30 went this spring and I am struggling to find a replacement. I guess I am looking in the wrong places.
I'm finding the exact same problem with my Kubota based Nanni. Kubota dealer can't even log into the Kubota parts catalogue without serial and model numbers of the tractor or machine or whatever the (Kubota) engine fits in.
Can you do a similar report on electric sailboat auxiliaries?
I recently purchased a 34 catalina with M25. I had to replace the alternator and that was tough to do and have one. But they don't have the same wiring as the new ones. To have extra parts on board, like injectors, how and where could I go to purchase?
1984 Nordic 44 with the original Universal "Atomic Diesel" M5444. Kubota block, and still running just fine. Everyone I have spoken to says the Kubota blocked Universal engines are bulletproof.
Suggest for a show
Storm Drogues , Para Anchors
Does a knotted rope work off the stern work ?
Should the rope be weighted in some way?
Beta marine is also Kubota and a great engine
Our Seafarer 31 had an atomic four. It was a love hate relationship 😅
There's tremendous merit in your descriptions, but I am very put off by the sheer weight and salt water cooling of marine diesels. I have an "undersized" air cooled MB 168F diesel, and I'd like to see it in a sailboat, with it's substantial emphasis of battery charging and diesel sipping. Imagine taking your motor out to change the oil. The dry air heat is welcome in all but a few situations and with doors open, you'd hardly feel it.
It’s the classic dilemma of quality over serviceability.
What’s more important is that sailor need to stop thinking cheaply. Any quality product or service needs to be compensated accordingly.
Enjoy that quality and take pride in it and. Pay the price it’s valued at.
I love DIY, but let’s be honest, the right parts prevent you from winging it while cruising.
Word. M30 5424 from 85 and still purring like my girlies kitty.
Nani engines are also Kubota based engines so that may open a path to source spare from. Yanmar is moving on the path where work like replacing Injectors by an owner cannot be performed anymore as the Engine management system needs a special tool to reset and re-calibrate it similar to what Renault did with their motor vehicle diesel engines. So owner Injector services cannot be performed the Management system will lock the engine down and refuse to operate. Imagine that happening during a passage. @practical-sailor
Cover the article C&c 40
I have an 84 Tartan, with 3k hours. Found Midwest tractor dealers who carry parts for my 5424. I find that marine distributors gouge badly. Does anyone know of refurbishes in GA/ FLA area they could recommend? Gaskets are getting old.
I know you did on your other show but maybe a reminder of navigation tablets for new viewers . Plus what other makes other than i pad you can use .
To each their own, I would never use Apple. I buy all Samsung when it's important. For unimportant use anything else cheap is fine.
thanks , My sailing is getting further away and stringing more nights together . Any model Samsung you could suggest . Allot of our club use Apple but options will be looked into
@@Jim-jh9bd Powerful entry level deluxe is Samsung Galaxy Tab S6 Lite $160-200. Unfortunately 10.5" is the smallest, I would love 8.5". Then look into options of Samsung AllShare Cast Dongle. Have to buy used, Ebay ~$25. S6 Lite is lowest quality tablet compatible I think. Compatible with all the S series phones/Notes I think.
Those 2 devices ~$200 will blow away any Apple options.
@@Jim-jh9bd I wrote a long reply with suggestions. Deleted. Maybe TH-cam thought it was a sales pitch.
Art YT is funny that way I also have had posts removed
Good video. I have a Universal 35 on my C&C 37/49. It's now over 30 years old and it may be time for an overhaul/rebuild. I note you said there are complete rebuild kits available. Can you direct me to that?
See if you can reach Meredith. Madame Diesel out in Washington state.
8,000 hrs corresponds to about 500,000 vehicle miles.
I would agree with what you are saying but would clarify that by calling them Freeway driving miles not City driving miles.
Yup, she's getting tired for sure. Still starts right up though, but has quite a bit of blowby. Time for a rebuild!
We still have Atomic in very old sailboat overhere. Always been said to avoid a sailboat with an atomic. Thank you. What do you think of volvo?
Have an MD2030 myself and love it!
Beta Marine...